Lake Powell Chronicle article

[gramps]

We need to make more people aware about what the wackos want to do to Powell...................
PAGE — A local physician and Greenehaven resident recently compared the environmentalist push to drain Lake Powell to a dangerous disease, one he said could kill the Lake Powell region if left unchallenged or unchecked.
“I think that we have an enemy amongst us, and I’m afraid we don’t understand our enemy,” Bill Lawrence told the Page City Council at its July 8 regular meeting. “In medicine, the diagnosis of the disease is the important thing, and the extent of its pathology. I think we need to know what our disease is. I think the environmentalists need a cause, and they have chosen to drain Lake Powell as their cause because they need to raise money.”
Lawrence said he believes that while local residents and government officials view the movement to decommission Glen Canyon Dam as an unrealistic flight of fancy by a few die-hard environmental groups, the movement may be gaining a receptive ear in the nationÂ’s capital.
“In medicine, when the disease attacks the patient and is virulent and overwhelming, we throw everything we can at the disease in trying to save the patient,” Lawrence said. “I think we need to publicize the immensity of the onslaught by the enemy. I think we need to comprehend the devastation to the Southwest and the United States in general, and Page in particular. If this disease is not stopped, I think we’re looking at a ghost town here.”
Page resident Steve Ward, director of communications for Lake Powell Resort and Marinas, concurred with LawrenceÂ’s view. Ward referred to the fate of Fredonia, which he said lost its lumber mill because of legal protections for the spotted owl.
“We have a lot of people around the country that completely, blindly follow what these people say,” Ward said. “The other enemy that we have is apathy. And there’s a lot of apathy right here in town. Of all places we shouldn’t have apathy about this issue, it’s Page, Ariz. A lot of people I talk to brush this off and say, ‘How can that ever happen?’ The analogy I use there is Fredonia. If those people had come to us and said, ‘We may lose our lumber mill because of a bird,’ we would have thought they were crazy.”

[BrendellaJet]

Im getting tired of this kind of crap. These people represent the MINORITY. Its time for the MAJORITY to stop letting these people screw with the way we want things to be.

[v-drive]

They need to leave things as they are. What is the reasoning behind this or is this another ploy of the indians to "take" back their land.
What happens if it is drained, are we going to be responsible for all of the water erosion that has occurred through the years. I know the people on this website care but you have to tell everyone you talk with so they understand what a loss at best this would be. v-drive

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by BrendellaJet
Im getting tired of this kind of crap. These people represent the MINORITY. Its time for the MAJORITY to stop letting these people screw with the way we want things to be.
It's time for the MAJORITY to kick the shite out of the MINORITY... when you hear about this crap... get involved.

[RiverToysJas]

I have read many solid reasons for returning the region to it's natural state. What are your reasons for keeping the lake?
I'm really not sure where I stand on this issue.
RTJas :D

[RiverToysJas]

I just found this good website that lays out the arguement to keep the lake... http://www.glencanyon.net/
I've already the "the other side" of the arguement a couple of years ago, so this is interesting to me.
RTJas :D

[Sleek-Jet]

Originally posted by RiverToysJas
I have read many solid reasons for returning the region to it's natural state. What are your reasons for keeping the lake?
I'm really not sure where I stand on this issue.
RTJas :D
I too have listened to the drain the lake side of things. The drain the lake people's strongest argument for decomissioning the dam is that it was a huge mistake to begin with, the "loans" (for lack of a better word) used to build the dam will be paid off in 2006. Therefor, since it's paid off, take it down.
mm, hmm. Nice logic there flower child.
Also, the geology of the region is just plain bad for a dam, i.e. the sandstone it's built on. OK, I might give them that one, but it is built, and the canyon seems to be holding up.
But the biggest advantage for keeping the dam and lake... the weather right now. The water storage provided by Lake Powell is valuble beyond measure today. I'm glad it's there.
The real root reason why the tree huggers want the lake drained is because of the recreational use of the lake. It just smokes their ass that we go out on our boats and have a good time. But here is the kicker. What do you think is going to happen if the lake and dam is decomissioned. Yep, the rafting, back country excursions, and other form of outdoor flower power activities are going to fill the void as they say. It's okay for earth muffin to take a two week rafting trip down the Colorado, but it's not ok for me to run my boat on a lake created by the same river. :mad:
More liberal thinking right there folks.

[RiverOtter]

Same kind of thing happened on the TN River. We have a pesky weed that grows in shallow, warm water. Real nasty looking. Makes it impossible to swim or boat. So the TN Valley Authority sprayed the weed and killed it. Enviros got mad, and found an an unlikely ally, The Bass Fishermen. The Bass Fishermen said that the fish were getting smaller and diing out without the weed and you know how concerned they are for the environment:rolleyes:. They toss their worm buckets overboard:mad:, discard their fishing line and rusty hooks:mad: , beer cans/bottles:mad:, oil cans:mad: , not to mention (I know this will get me in trouble with the outboard crowd) their environmentally friendly 2 stroke outboards:rolleyes:! So TVA caved and we have the pesky weed again :mad:

[v-drive]

Well if I had to pick a reason it would be because of the sandstone. It is soft but as I recall from looking at it years ago they worked around it and did a sound job as I recall. Like sleek jet mentioned it is valuable water storage. I say we keep it.
:D v-drive

[HavasuDreamin']

Okay...........I am a little lost. :confused: What are the positives of taking the damn down?

[Sleek-Jet]

Originally posted by HavasuDreamin'
Okay...........I am a little lost. :confused: What are the positives of taking the damn down?
The positives (in some people's eyes):
The dam was never needed, it will soon be paid off, take it down.
Bad geology to build a dam (the sandstone).
Also, there are reports that the lack of sediment in the Grand Canyon is causing the extinction of certin types of sucker fish.
That's it in a nut shell.

[Racer277]

First it will be Powell, then Mead, then Mojave, then Havasu....
Without this water storage how will the Southwest United States residents exist? I realize they (wackos) don't care, they want what they want now. But people's lives must be considered. Water storage is more important than almost anything right now and into the next 50-100 years.
You have to look at the Damn builders in the early part of last century and just say WOW did you guys plan and build well!

[HavasuDreamin']

So make Page, AZ and other cities that are supported by the lake ghost towns...........not to mention drain one of the most beautiful lakes in the U.S.?
Fortunately I don't see it happening.........but those extreme left winged nutballs sure do think they have solutions to everything .........regardless of whether or not there is a problem.

[Sleek-Jet]

Originally posted by Racer277
First it will be Powell, then Mead, then Mojave, then Havasu....
Without this water storage how will the Southwest United States residents exist? I realize they (wackos) don't care, they want what they want now. But people's lives must be considered. Water storage is more important than almost anything right now and into the next 50-100 years.
You have to look at the Damn builders in the early part of last century and just say WOW did you guys plan and build well!
What's really funny (ironic) the dams on the Colorado river system were initially proposed as flood control. :eek:
After several large floods in the early 1900's the politicians decided to do something about taming the Colorado River. The Great Depresion provided the need to employ thousands of people, dam construction is a good way for the Federal Gov't to pump money into the private sector... and viola. Dams all the way from Yuma to Page. :D
There was also another dam proposed below Glenn Canyon, I think it was to be called Marble Canyon. The enviromental movemant was just getting started and they struck a deal that if they allowed Glen Canyon to be built, the gov't would stop the Marble Canyon project. The founder of the Sierra Club called this deal "The worst mistake of his life".
Glen Canyon has been a craw in the enviromental lobby's jaw ever since.

[Pesky Varmint]

Here's a real simple clue why the dam has to stay.
Some people have trouble figuring out this incredibly
simple little fact:
This is the desert.
That is the fact. Now, if it was 100 years or so ago,
and Phoenix (did you remember some of this
water goes there), Los Angeles (did you remember some of this
water goes there), Las Vegas (did you remember some of this
water goes there, oh, and don't forget Mexico), and all the agriculture of Arizona and California didn't exist yet you could avoid damming the lake. It's way too late now. This is the desert. Water is what life needs the most in a place where it is the hardest thing to get.
I watch all this crap happening with great amusement.
I'm looking forward to the day the southwest has a major
water crisis (much like the oil crisis of the 70's). You'll be
made to think it's because we're out of water (we won't
really be). You'll be made to think it's you that needs to
conserve (when in fact it will all be politically motivated).
And in the end you'll be paying 3-10 times for water what
you were before the crisis.
Meantime I'll be rolling on the floor laughing, drinking the water
from my own well.
If the dam is taken down and the lake drained the southwest
will have a genuine water crisis.
Pesky Varmint

[DogHouse]

Aside from my own selfish reason to keep the lake (i.e. for boating of course! ;) ), this past several of years of drought should pretty clearly demonstrate the need for the large storage capacity afforded by Powell and Mead. The southwest would be screwed without them.
-brian

[BrendellaJet]

Originally posted by RiverToysJas
I have read many solid reasons for returning the region to it's natural state. What are your reasons for keeping the lake?
I'm really not sure where I stand on this issue.
RTJas :D
Think about where you boat and get back to me, okay?
Oh yeah, you like water? We kind of need that lake to sustain daily life as we know it. If we lost the holding capacity, are you going to keep the excess in your garage(hint-it wont fit)

[BrendellaJet]

Originally posted by Sleek-Jet
The positives (in some people's eyes):
The dam was never needed, it will soon be paid off.
Bad geology to build a dam (the sandstone).
Also, there are reports that the lack of sediment in the Grand Canyon is causing the extinction of certin types of sucker fish.
That's it in a nut shell.
1. Oh well.
2.A little late with that argument
3.Are you kidding me? Get over it.

[burtandnancy]

We all know: flood control, power generation, water for our cities, recreation, agriculture, the list goes on. What is so complicated about this? What are the arguements AGAINST the above?

[RiverToysJas]

I have read many arguements to decommision the dam, if you are that interested, do an internet search and read for yourself. I'm not interested in going and finding all this info for you guys though. It's out there. Much of it junk, some good. Discovery Channel also did a show about it, a few years back.
I remember a couple of the arguements they gave in the show. One was there is fear by scientists and engineers that the amount of silt building against the back of the dam will eventually comprimise the structure. Another I remember was the amount of water "lost to" evaporation from the lake in a year is enough water to supply Pheonix for a year, and the water would better be stored in a cooler climate elsewhere. In my thinking, evaporationed water is not lost, it's simply moving elsewhere. There has been no NEW water made for millions of years.
I agree, the lake should stay, but I think it's worth researching the pro's and con's, and weeding out the subjectivity, to see the facts clearly is not unwise IMHO.
RTJas :D

[Sleek-Jet]

Originally posted by RiverToysJas
...One was there is fear by scientists and engineers that the amount of silt building against the back of the dam will eventually comprimise the structure.
I've heard that one also, and it's pretty much a lame duck argument. The sediment would realistically be allowed to come up to the penstocks for the generators before someone would do something about it. I've heard an ex-Bureau of Rec engineer (who is now spearheading the campaign to drain the lake) say that there are plans in place to build slurry tunnals around the dam and allow the sediment to pass down stream.
This would have two effects: 1.) It would help return the natural beaches and sandbars (easy folks), that have been erroded to the Grand Canyon.
2.) It would improve the habitat for the "endangered" fish and wildlife in the canyon.
Sounds like a good idea to me, everbody would win. But it's too much of a win-win for the evrio-wennies. It's take down the dam or else.

[DEEZ NUTTS]

Hhhmmmm..... why would the Navajo Nation spend millions building a lake specific facility on the edge of a lake to be drained???
Do the enviro freaks have more power than the Navajo Nation?? I doubt it
Just one point that no one has raised.