Jacuzza Jet Question?

[JT2Fast4U]

Hi... I have been reading alot of posts lately, & have seen some references about adding oil to a jet. I believe they were talking about a "Berkley Jet" in that particular post. But I was wondering if your suppose to be adding oil to a Jacuzzi Jet ( model #12WJ )?
I know about adding grease to the zerk fittings, but wasn't aware of any oils in it. I also had one other question, I recently had the u-joints apart between the motor & the jet, & while they were off I tried to turn the jet over by hand & I wasn't able too. I was only able too do it with a pipe wrench. It didn't take alot of effort to do it with the wrench, but on the same token, it wasn't exactly easy either. Is this normal for a Jacuzzi 12WJ jet? Or is my jet all screwed up? Thanks for any input you guys have on this. It's well appreciated. Thanks... JT2Fast4u
Boat info: 73 Challenger w/455ci.

[wsuwrhr]

Have you ever had the jet apart? 'Bout time you did. You could have several problems, too many to list here.
Just curious, please tell me the pipe wrench wasn't on the shaft.
Brian

[wsuwrhr]

There aren't any OILS in the Jacuzzi. Just the Zerks in the front and rear.
Originally posted by JT2Fast4U
Hi... I have been reading alot of posts lately, & have seen some references about adding oil to a jet. I believe they were talking about a "Berkley Jet" in that particular post. But I was wondering if your suppose to be adding oil to a Jacuzzi Jet ( model #12WJ )?
I know about adding grease to the zerk fittings, but wasn't aware of any oils in it. I also had one other question, I recently had the u-joints apart between the motor & the jet, & while they were off I tried to turn the jet over by hand & I wasn't able too. I was only able too do it with a pipe wrench. It didn't take alot of effort to do it with the wrench, but on the same token, it wasn't exactly easy either. Is this normal for a Jacuzzi 12WJ jet? Or is my jet all screwed up? Thanks for any input you guys have on this. It's well appreciated. Thanks... JT2Fast4u
Boat info: 73 Challenger w/455ci.

[BrendellaJet]

I think I have two zerk fitting on mine. I know there is one on the bowl, Ill have to look at the front side. Mine is fresh and can be turned by hand at the shaft.

[HOOTER SLED-]

The 12WJ just has two zercs. I got some old parts for that if your ever interested. The shaft should move freely. You've had this thing running recently right???

[Moneypitt]

Isn't there a fitting inside the reverse cover. As far as hard to turn, I think there is some resistance allowable, as long as it turns completely around with the same torque required. I know a berk unit has the rope type packing with a squeeze flange, and if over tightened, can lock up the unit.......MP

[JT2Fast4U]

Thanks everyone for the replys...
WSUWRHR: No, I haven't had the jet apart, & no, I didn't have the wrench on the shaft, it was on the collar (the part that's connected to the u-joints).
Hooter sled- Yes, it has been running recently. I've had a couple outtings this season so far & had a few last season also. Where are you located at, incase I may need some parts? I'm in Hesperia,CA.
MoneyPitt: I completely forgot until I read your reply. It didn't turn over with an equal amount of force. It would turn a half revolution pretty easy & then the other half turn would be considerably harder, then easy, then harder & so on...So what would you make of this? Like it is, I don't have any problem pulling skiers, or the 3-man towable toy with it. Granted, it not a FAST boat, but I have had the RPM's up around maybe 4000 or so. I haven't really pushed the boat to see what it can do as far as RPM's & speed goes thou. It's basically a stock 455 old's with a Torker-2 intake & Hardin Marine exhaust logs & a Dooley 10qt. oil pan.
Thanks again for all the replys, I appreciate them.. JT2Fast4u

[BrendellaJet]

My pump is fresh, from MPD, race tolerances. A 5 year old could turn it with one hand, so there should not be too much resistance, but no, it does not spin entirely free. As far as the fitting, yes there is one, it appears to be made of brass, I know there is a brass bushing inside of the bowl which the shaft slides into. It(fitting) does not spin with the shaft. Cant tell you what it does, maybe sets backlash? As far as I know there are no manuals available for the 12WJ.

[wsuwrhr]

If I understand what you are saying correctly, the brass bushing is exactly that. It is a bearing of sorts for the rear of the shaft.
Secloc(sp?) has a manual that I have seen , but it isn't worth as shit as far as I could tell. In fact it specifically states something to the fact that you shouldn't use the manual for performance. haha.
You can have it if you want to pick it up.
Going by your description of the problem...Jet, sounds to me like the shaft is bent.
Brian
Originally posted by BrendellaJet
My pump is fresh, from MPD, race tolerances. A 5 year old could turn it with one hand, so there should not be too much resistance, but no, it does not spin entirely free. As far as the fitting, yes there is one, it appears to be made of brass, I know there is a brass bushing inside of the bowl which the shaft slides into. It(fitting) does not spin with the shaft. Cant tell you what it does, maybe sets backlash? As far as I know there are no manuals available for the 12WJ.

[JT2Fast4U]

"Going by your description of the problem...Jet, sounds to me like the shaft is bent."
Brian, you think my shaft is bent? Is there anyway to tell without pulling the entire jet out? Like from underneath the boat, or maybe thru the top inspection cover? Or from some other way possibly? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you...JT2Fast4u

[manuel]

Here is a diagram of the 12WJ with parts list and prices,
http://www.marinejet.com/pdf/NAMJ_12WJ_price_list.pdf
Jason at North American Marine Jet (they own Jacuzzi) is very helpful & knows these units better than most, (501) 778-4151

[napabob]

Originally posted by JT2Fast4U
Hi... I have been reading alot of posts lately, & have seen some references about adding oil to a jet. I believe they were talking about a "Berkley Jet" in that particular post. But I was wondering if your suppose to be adding oil to a Jacuzzi Jet ( model #12WJ )?
I know about adding grease to the zerk fittings, but wasn't aware of any oils in it. I also had one other question, I recently had the u-joints apart between the motor & the jet, & while they were off I tried to turn the jet over by hand & I wasn't able too. I was only able too do it with a pipe wrench. It didn't take alot of effort to do it with the wrench, but on the same token, it wasn't exactly easy either. Is this normal for a Jacuzzi 12WJ jet? Or is my jet all screwed up? Thanks for any input you guys have on this. It's well appreciated. Thanks... JT2Fast4u
Boat info: 73 Challenger w/455ci.
I have the entire circa 1975 booklet scanned.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/6782Jacuzzi1-med.jpg

[pops1]

Originally posted by JT2Fast4U
Hi... It didn't take alot of effort to do it with the wrench, but on the same token, it wasn't exactly easy either. Is this normal for a Jacuzzi 12WJ jet? Or is my jet all screwed up? Thanks for any input you guys have on this. It's well appreciated. Thanks... JT2Fast4u
Boat info: 73 Challenger w/455ci. yOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO TURN YOUR PUMP OVER BY HAND. GET A LOOK AT EVERYTHING AND MAKE SURE ITS NOT DAMAGED.
iF YOU ARE IN DOUBT- GET THE MARINE JET DRIVE BOOK - IT HAS HOW TO ON MOST ALL PUMPS AND YOURS IS IN IT. MOST ALL GOOD DEALERS HAVE IT OR CAN GET IT- OR CALL AGGRESSOR JETS, REX OR

[BrendellaJet]

Originally posted by pops1
yOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO TURN YOUR PUMP OVER BY HAND. GET A LOOK AT EVERYTHING AND MAKE SURE ITS NOT DAMAGED.
iF YOU ARE IN DOUBT- GET THE MARINE JET DRIVE BOOK - IT HAS HOW TO ON MOST ALL PUMPS AND YOURS IS IN IT. MOST ALL GOOD DEALERS HAVE IT OR CAN GET IT- OR CALL AGGRESSOR JETS, REX OR
Do not buy the Seloc Manual. It only covers the YJ/Golden Eagle. It briefly mentions the WJ, stating that that pump has been known to propel boats to over 100mph and is not considered a recreational pump-therefore they dont cover it baceause its for racing...
What a load of crap. Like the other mixed flow pumps cant do that-they all seem to be in there.

[napabob]

Originally posted by BrendellaJet
My pump is fresh, from MPD, race tolerances. A 5 year old could turn it with one hand, so there should not be too much resistance, but no, it does not spin entirely free. As far as the fitting, yes there is one, it appears to be made of brass, I know there is a brass bushing inside of the bowl which the shaft slides into. It(fitting) does not spin with the shaft. Cant tell you what it does, maybe sets backlash? As far as I know there are no manuals available for the 12WJ.
I purchased a copy of an old technical repair manual (no pictures of assemblies) from North American Marine Jet Inc. for the 12WJ.
It took me several telephone calls to locate the department (at NAMJ) that had the knowledge of the publication.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/6782NAMJ-med.jpg
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/6782NAMJ2-med.jpg

[dgie]

There are in fact 3 zerk fittings on the 12wj one on top of the Bowl, one above the bearing housing inside the boat, by the shaft, and there is one inside the bowl that you have to lift the reverse gate up and stick the grease gun hose up into to get to. I give mine about 3 squirts in each zerk. Somebody mentioned something on this board that I adopted when greasing the fittings. That is to grease the pump up just after taking the boat out of the water. The reason is it will push any water or moisture that may have collected inside and keep it from rusting. I also have the Seloc manual and it does not have the 12WJ in it, as stated above, it just mentions it briefly. What you are mentioning in your post sounds like somebody did not grease it and the Bearing is toast. This will mean a complete overhaul. I did it and it is easy. I found this post earlier and ordered parts and rebuilt it, its pretty straight forward, just remember what you tak off and the order so you can get it back together right. If you have a digital camera, snap pictures as you disasemble it then you will have a vissual reference on how to get it back together correctly. Following is the parts list with prices, the prices may vary by roughly 5 percent or so since the post was last year. If you have any questions pm me and I can answer any questions you might have. One more thing, it is almost imposible to bend that shaft, when it was designed it was overdesigned for that reason exactly. I really suspect your bearing is toast.
I did a complete rebuild on a Jacuzzi 12WJ pump for around $80.00 including the bearing. I went to Motion Industries in Garland, Texas (972) 278-0220. Here is what to ask for and what I paid for them.
271 Buna o-pack (1 pack) (00192 S 21803) $1.75
232 Buna o-pack (5 pack) (00192 S 21764) $1.75
258 Buna o-pack (1 pack) (00192 S 21790) $1.75
256 Buna o-pack (1 pack) (00192 S 21788) $1.75
032 Buna o-pack (1 pack) (00192 S 20631) $1.50
450 Buna o-pack (1 pack) (00192 S 21908) $3.13
9080 Lup seal 0137 oil seal (00480 X 16110) (1) $7.47
5307 K Bearing, Double Row Ball Bearing (00300 B 03203) (1) $38.24
10054 Lup Seal 0168 Oil Seal (00480 X 23480) (2) $16.78
You will have some packing’s left over; they only sell some of them in a 5 pack (what’s a few extra cents anyways). I did this rebuild last summer so the prices may have changed a little since then. Good luck and see you on the water.

[wsuwrhr]

If you can turn the shaft freely, and then it binds up, then gets free again, my guess is the shaft is bent, or the impeller is contacting the wear ring. Either way, you may have some problems. If the bearing is damaged it would be hard to turn in any position.
You could mount an indicator SOMEHOW to indicate the shaft, either through the handhole or through the intake, however since both parts are aluminum you would need a fixture or a plate to mount the indicator base to. My guess is if it is bent THAT bad to need a pipe wrench, you could have someone turn the pump for you and you look at it from the intake side, you should be able to see the shaft good enough to tell if it is bent.
Seems like alot of work to me.
If it runs fine, keep running it. haha. Take it to a MPD after the season is over.
Forgetaboutit.
Brian
Originally posted by JT2Fast4U
"Going by your description of the problem...Jet, sounds to me like the shaft is bent."
Brian, you think my shaft is bent? Is there anyway to tell without pulling the entire jet out? Like from underneath the boat, or maybe thru the top inspection cover? Or from some other way possibly? Any help would be appreciated. Thank you...JT2Fast4u

[HOOTER SLED-]

That North American Jet has a manual. Damn, I just recently threw mine away too. JT2, I'm in Torrance. I have a set of heads for that Olds too. That manual was pretty cool too. It had an exploded view of the whole pump. See if you can get your hands on one.

[dgie]

I am not an expert on this subject as I am still learning about these things from people on this board myself. There is a lot of good knowledge here on this board, anyway what I found is that you can pull the inspection cover or cap off the bearing housing (by the shaft) with the pump still in the boat. Pull it off and see if everything looks good there, make sure the balls are still in the race. This is a double roller bearing, so you will only be able to inspect one side like this. I believe if you want to get to the bottom of the problem though, you will have to pull the pump apart and look at it. Something is tweaked in there if you can not turn it over by hand. You should be able to atleast do this, it will not be really easy, but it should not be too hard also. On the subject of running it like it is. I am not sure running it in that condition is best, it could create more problems which = more $$, to both the pump and the engine . I spent a summer getting my boat in running condition, your problem will not take that long. For me I had to glass in a new transom, rebuild my pump, rewire the whole boat, replace guages, replace the engine... and the list goes on. I am still working bugs out of mine. It is your boat but I would atleast do the right thing and pull the pump and look at it. just my 2 cent.

[wsuwrhr]

Originally posted by dgie
On the subject of running it like it is. I am not sure running it in that condition is best, it could create more problems which = more $$, to both the pump and the engine .
I only made that suggestion because, to me, the underlying tone was he didn't want to spend any money fixing it.
He mentioned it was running fine otherwise. What else can I say?
When my toys are broke, I fix them, or it sits on the trailer.
Brian

[Rexone]

The publisher of the Seloc Manuals had discontinued printing of the jet book. Just fyi.

[manuel]

This guy that sells manuals on eBay has them listed every week, here's one, brand new $23.95
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2484847588&category=50442

[BrendellaJet]

Originally posted by Rexone
The publisher of the Seloc Manuals had discontinued printing of the jet book. Just fyi.
Just want to say it again-if you have a 12WJ, DONT BUY THE SELOC MANUAL, ITS USELESS. VERY LITTLE INFORMATION IN THERE. NO REBUILD INFO.

[wsuwrhr]

If you want the seloc manual, you can HAVE mine.
Brian

[Tim_T]

If your shaft ends up being bent then hit me up. I think i have an extra. In fact i know its out in the garage somewhere. Let me know.
Tim

[JT2Fast4U]

First, let me say THANKS to everyone that has posted a reply to my post. I never expected so many people to take the time & try to help me out. It's great to know that there are some good people out their still. Thanks again... :D
Today, I was looking at my jet, & I can only find two zerk fittings on it. One is inside the boat, just above the shaft, & the other is outside the boat on the top of the bowl. I can't find another one anywhere on it. I also raised the reverse gate to get a look in there & the only things I see in there is a bolt & some fins, which I'm assuming is the impellar (or the backside of it).
I was able to download a service manual that has a few blown-up pictures of a Jacuzzi (OEM) & a few pics of the Jacuzzi "Energizer" jet, & it doesn't show any other zerk fittings inside under the reverse gate anywhere. Where exactly is this zerk fitting suppose to be located in there? I also checked out the the shaft, as best as I could with my eye anyway, & it doesn't appear that it is bent in any way. After looking at some of the pics that are in this manual I see a part on mine that's not on the jet originally. The part bolts on between the steering housing & the bowl & it's shaped like a wedge. Is this what's referred to as a "wedge" on a jet? Like I said before, I'm really new to all this boat stuff. :(
Will, thanks again everyone for the links, tips, & suggestions it's really appreciated. Thank You.... JT2Fast4u

[dgie]

Ok, I just looked at the diagram and parts break down that was posted earlier and my 12wj has an extra zerk fitting inside the outlet behind the reverse gate. The diagram has a bolt there instead. Does anyone know on this board if this was a modification that Jacuzzi implemented later?

[jacuzer]

The W pump has a "tail cone" bolted to the back of the large tail bushing. Those of you W owners that have taken their pump to MPD will have a tail cone, the rest of you will either have a cylinder shaped plug or it will be missing altogether. In pumps that are missing the tail cone, someone has usually screwed a zerk into the threads because it seems like that is what should be there. It is not.
The tailcone history as I heard it: The design on the bowl was not right , in that the opening was too big so they attached the aluminum plug(tailcone) to make the outlet cross section smaller. Guess what? they made the plug too big/cross section too small. Jack at MPD developed the more appropriate tailcone geometry.
As for your non-turning pump, I would have a look ASAP. You should always be able to turn the pump by hand. A bad bearing can lead to very expensive repairs. At very least remove the front bearing cap (star shaped) as posted before and look at the front of your bearing. Look for water dripping out when you first remove it. Any rust, replacement time. DONT MESS AROUND! Another check would be to remove your bowl and try to turn the shaft by hand. If it frees up with the bowl off then you are probably looking at an alignment problem(bent shaft, clearance to tight etc.)
When it comes time to repair your problem, I suggest a blueprint instead of a rebuild. The jacuzzi impellers are so crude that they really need to be reworked for efficiency.
Hope this helps
Jacuzer

[dgie]

Just out of curiosity, how much does he charge for the tail cone? Also I would asume that if the opening is too large the pump would be not as efficient that would translate in loss of mph, any ideas on how much?

[jim lee]

I see a part on mine that's not on the jet originally. The part bolts on between the steering housing & the bowl & it's shaped like a wedge. Is this what's referred to as a "wedge" on a jet?
Wait.. This -may- open up an entirly new can 'O worms. One popular conversion for the WJ is to chop the nozzle section out of the bowl and convert it to hold the Berkeley split bowl steering nozzle. This would allow you to use a wedge. Otherwise the wedge would do nothing for you. (Seeing that the nozzle in the stock WJ is cast into the bowl itself.)
Does yours have a berkely or Place steering section?
Or.. Another less common modification is to machine off the old internal nozzle and replace it with a nozzle insert of a different. I think this could look like a wedge from the outside. This was to get around the "Too large nozzle" problem. Yours has no cone in there , so maybe this is the setup you have?
My WJ has had its nozzle machined out (By MPD) and a place diverter bolted on the back. Seems to work a lot better this way.
We need a picutre!
-jim lee

[JT2Fast4U]

Jim Lee, here's a pic of my jet, & hopefully you can see the "Wedge" piece that's in question, that's bolted between the bowl & steering housing. I hope the pic comes thru ok. I have other pic's with different angles if you need any others. Thanks for any info you can tell me about this jet, as to what may or may not have been done to it. Thanks again...JT2Fast4u

[dgie]

Jet2 forget what I told you about that zerk fitting. It was a surprise to me also. Yours is right, mine is wrong. I hate that Damn learning curve sometimes :D

[jim lee]

That looks like a wedge allright. Unscrew the 4 bolts that hold on the steering section and have a look. On the stock WJ the nozzle is cast into the bowl and the steering is just a diflector of the output stream. -Maybe- this wedge your seeing is an after market removable nozzle? 'Cause I'd -think- a wedge would be a bad idea with the stock WJ. (With the Berk, the wedge actually changes the angle of the nozzle.)
-jim lee

[napabob]

Originally posted by JT2Fast4U
Jim Lee, here's a pic of my jet, & hopefully you can see the "Wedge" piece that's in question, that's bolted between the bowl & steering housing. I hope the pic comes thru ok. I have other pic's with different angles if you need any others. Thanks for any info you can tell me about this jet, as to what may or may not have been done to it. Thanks again...JT2Fast4u
JT2Fast4U,
Here is a picture of my Jacuzzi 12WJ. It has a Place diverter that gives me some control of the up and down angle of the nozzle for trim purposes.
Jim Brock, of Cyclone Speed & Marine, also recommended the removal of the nozzle on the Jacuzzi no. 4417 bowl. I think that he (Jim) tried to explain to me that the diverter has a nozzle built into it and that two nozzles in line would cause performance loss.
You can reach Mr. Brock at: (818) 890-1867 for futher clarifications.
My winter plan is to locate another bowl and have the nozzle removed and the outlet widened as per Jim's recommendations.
I will have to compare data before and after the modification.