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Raylar
07-16-2004, 07:34 AM
We just completed dyno runs a week ago on a Raylar 496 package in many variations. Had a 533HP @5000, 610 ft./lbs @ 4300 run with the heads, intake manifold and cam package on the stock Merc ECM with no reprogramming! This prompted me to a new thought. Anybody ordering a new boat with 496 power, order the 496Mag, save the big dollars for the 496HO, buy the Raylar kit, get 533HP for just a little more than buying the boat with 496HO version. Great food for thought Eh! If you're flush with dollars, order the package with the XR drive and you've got an awesome package! and still save over 20K if you are considering the HP525 package and give you more torque! 525HP plus packages just got a lot less expensive. Interesting Eh!
Raylar;)

Toomstone
07-16-2004, 07:39 AM
raylar how much are you looking to sell the kit for??? and has Chris Winn talked to you about putting it on his boat soon???

twistedpair
07-16-2004, 07:41 AM
Nice! Good way to sneak past the insurance agent also, 'Just a stock 375 hp, Mr. Good Hands'!:wink: You could just about justify the uprades by the insurance savings over a few seasons.

welk2party
07-16-2004, 07:42 AM
So if you have the HO the kit will not work?

Toomstone
07-16-2004, 07:43 AM
also raylar... did you get 533hp on the 496 or the 496ho???

Dave C
07-16-2004, 08:58 AM
there are so few differences between the 496 and 496HO its kind of sickening.
So far cam is the only difference I have found.
I think some marketing execs need to be locked up.

Toomstone
07-16-2004, 11:08 AM
wheres raylar at???

welk2party
07-16-2004, 02:09 PM
bumpsky

Ivan Dan
07-16-2004, 02:25 PM
Come on Raylar....u are killing us here....has Chris Winn done the kit yet? How much is the whole set up? What advantages would you see by having the computer reprogrammed after doing your kit?
DETAILS here....come on :mad: :D :cool:

Slider
07-16-2004, 02:39 PM
Ok Raylar, You can not post and leave.WE WANT INFO NOW.

Slider
07-17-2004, 08:42 AM
Ok

welk2party
07-17-2004, 09:56 AM
Post and run kind of guy. Don't he know this is the sandbar?

Raylar
07-17-2004, 10:22 AM
Sorry Guys,
Out of town yesterday on family business and I forgeot to take the laptop! Yes Merc likes its profit! Only difference between 496Mag and 496HO is cam and program in ECU. We ran a stock 496 block on all our dyno runs and the cam in these tests was ours so engine package does not matter. We did run this test with the 496HO computer and when we switched back to the 496Mag computer the horsepower fell back to 505HP and the A/F leaned out slightly. I have talked to Chris several times and I think he will be one of our first installs. We are considering a project test boat and one of our magazines is interested in a spread, so Gentlemen step up and make your pitch! Ha a Pun!
As for addtional tweeking of the computer, it will probably yield some added power but I am not sure it will be worth the dollar. I suspect most of you still have stock exhaust, so I think I would opt for the new exhaust first where we know there is some definate power to be gained. The good exhaust systems seem to be getting more competitive on cost and strongher in construction. Check out Lightning, Stainless Marine HI-torque III and Hardin Cyclone. These systems are way less than CMI's and will still give you more bang for your buck.
Sorry for the late comeback!
Ray @ Raylar:)

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
07-17-2004, 10:32 AM
any tips fpr 500efi's

welk2party
07-17-2004, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Raylar
Sorry Guys,
Out of town yesterday on family business and I forgeot to take the laptop! Yes Merc likes its profit! Only difference between 496Mag and 496HO is cam and program in ECU. We ran a stock 496 block on all our dyno runs and the cam in these tests was ours so engine package does not matter. We did run this test with the 496HO computer and when we switched back to the 496Mag computer the horsepower fell back to 505HP and the A/F leaned out slightly. I have talked to Chris several times and I think he will be one of our first installs. We are considering a project test boat and one of our magazines is interested in a spread, so Gentlemen step up and make your pitch! Ha a Pun!
As for addtional tweeking of the computer, it will probably yield some added power but I am not sure it will be worth the dollar. I suspect most of you still have stock exhaust, so I think I would opt for the new exhaust first where we know there is some definate power to be gained. The good exhaust systems seem to be getting more competitive on cost and strongher in construction. Check out Lightning, Stainless Marine HI-torque III and Hardin Cyclone. These systems are way less than CMI's and will still give you more bang for your buck.
Sorry for the late comeback!
Ray @ Raylar:)
I would love to get my deckboat in for a project boat. Where do I sign up?

mike37
07-17-2004, 10:46 AM
Originally posted by Raylar
Sorry Guys,
Out of town yesterday on family business and I forgeot to take the laptop! Yes Merc likes its profit! Only difference between 496Mag and 496HO is cam and program in ECU. We ran a stock 496 block on all our dyno runs and the cam in these tests was ours so engine package does not matter. We did run this test with the 496HO computer and when we switched back to the 496Mag computer the horsepower fell back to 505HP and the A/F leaned out slightly. I have talked to Chris several times and I think he will be one of our first installs. We are considering a project test boat and one of our magazines is interested in a spread, so Gentlemen step up and make your pitch! Ha a Pun!
As for addtional tweeking of the computer, it will probably yield some added power but I am not sure it will be worth the dollar. I suspect most of you still have stock exhaust, so I think I would opt for the new exhaust first where we know there is some definate power to be gained. The good exhaust systems seem to be getting more competitive on cost and strongher in construction. Check out Lightning, Stainless Marine HI-torque III and Hardin Cyclone. These systems are way less than CMI's and will still give you more bang for your buck.
Sorry for the late comeback!
Ray @ Raylar:)
I have the 496HO in my boat what mods did you do
I need more power for less $$$

twistedpair
07-17-2004, 11:56 AM
Mike, check this (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50885) or this (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51422) in Gearheads.

Ivan Dan
07-17-2004, 12:38 PM
Raylar~ Have you had this in a boat yet? I would imagine the results could be different under real load conditions. Running a motor on a dyno is a completely different concept then running the motor in a live application.
Don't get me wrong here, I am just playing devils advocate. I'm excited about this kit but I am very curious to see some real data comparisons before and after the kit on some boats.
When do you expect to test this set up in a boat?

Ivan Dan
07-19-2004, 10:56 AM
TTT

Toomstone
07-19-2004, 11:00 AM
we need raylar back to talk to. so with the 496ho hes getting 533hp without ecu changes is that correct???

Raylar
07-19-2004, 07:01 PM
Yes, its absolutly true, we took a stock 496 short block, installed our profile BP106 cam, our Bigpower aluminum heads and our intake manifold and a set of e-top headers and made 533HP at 5100 rpms and 610 ft./lbs torque at 4300 rpms on a stock 496HO
ECM. This was done with a stock Mercury wiring harness and all sensors hooked up so we could get the computer in the 100% power mode. We had a Merc. digital code and analyser that we monitored the ECM while we made 12 different dyno pulls, testing different fuel pressure settings and exhaust types to see what differences we could see. The motor idled like stock at 750rpms and pulled up to the redline at 5200rpms on all pulls. This seems to surprise a lot of people except us. We knew it would work because we understand how the Merc ECM works on an EFI motor. On a supercharger motor it's an entirely different animal, there you have positve manifold pressures and you must rebuild a whole new ECM calibration table to get the motor to run. I know that performance boaters tend to be some of the best skeptics on earth, so all I can say is Raylar will still be here selling these parts long after the skeptics have turned to believers. I am sure their are going to be a lot of 496 owners using our products for years to come and we are a patient company. We've been working on these parts for over two years, invested over a quarter of a million dollars in design, engineering, prototyping, tooling and testing to make this happen. We are not in this for the short haul, hell it will take quite a while just to recover our investment. Some may think our products are snake oil, but I can assure you we are pretty damned good engineers. Consider our heads, these are not just GM iron head copies, everthing from the intake flange to the exhaust flange is state of the art engineering, parts and real science that makes these heads flow 370CFM at .600 lift with a 295cc port! Our intake manifold uses real engineering that makes it keep up with our heads and still fit in the stock manifold space requirements. If you don't think that was hard, then try building one! Our cams are like wise developed to work with our special valve train, heads and manifold to produce torque and horsepower that only a matched system can produce. I am not going to bullshit or buffalo anybody into using our products. If you have a 496, you want more power coupled with quality parts that work, then the choice is up to you, Buy us now or Buy us later, we will prove our products or we won't be able to stay in business very long. Sorry to get on my soap box, but some of you guys are a tuff sale. Glad you are though, because you will also be our best sale people when you use our products now or in the future! We are also not done with our development and new parts introduction. We have more great things coming and they don't involve any obsolescence or "new and improved baloney" Just keep it simple engineering that turns out great product for the 496 engine and some new engine families to come. Stay Tuned we ain't done yet!
Ray @ Raylar;)

Kilrtoy
07-19-2004, 07:29 PM
Are you providing a warranty with this engine:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

MKE - POWER
07-19-2004, 08:10 PM
O.K Raylar,
The question has been asked a few times here and you have used a wonderful salepitch to side step the actual answers.
How much for this package????????
Also, you reference using a 496HO ECu but is this a Merc 496ho stock block crate engine like most of these guys have. Or are you building your " Own 496 Shortblock", Your heads, internals, and then using a Merc ECU? I do know CHris Winn and he is a shrewd customer.For the sake of all us interested potential customers, what is the complete scoop?
Mark

Toomstone
07-19-2004, 08:39 PM
ya raylar get us all the info you can on this product!!! like he said:D

Ivan Dan
07-19-2004, 09:15 PM
Raylar~
Sorry to keep naggin at you but you still didn't answer my questions and I think everyone wants to know......
Have you had this in a boat yet? I would imagine the results could be different under real load conditions. Running a motor on a dyno is a completely different concept then running the motor in a live application.
When do you expect to test this set up in a boat?
THANKS!
DAN

Chris Winn
07-19-2004, 09:44 PM
i am posting this one from Boise Idaho, so forgive me if i am slow o respond 9 i am on dial up!!!)
i am going to do this kit, i hav to be back in Asia next week for a few weeks, but i figure that i will do the kit in the end of sept (just in time to test with less heat)
i have spoken with ray many times, and i have found him to be very open to a visit to see his operations, the most important factor is the air to fuel ratio and if that is good than you will be good to go. i do not see this kit under performing from the amount of testing that Ray has put into this kit, if i am the first, than i will vounateer my boat as a test bed for any magazinze to run a comarison on (there's a few built with 525hp's, and i will put this hp to that # on the water any day as a good comparison)
i have to go now, the bars close one hour earlier here (+1 hour) so good luck, and i will keep you posted as to my findings......

cdog
07-19-2004, 10:15 PM
Originally posted by Ivan Dan
Raylar~
Sorry to keep naggin at you but you still didn't answer my questions and I think everyone wants to know......
Have you had this in a boat yet? I would imagine the results could be different under real load conditions. Running a motor on a dyno is a completely different concept then running the motor in a live application.
When do you expect to test this set up in a boat?
THANKS!
DAN
Merc dyno's their motors to come up with the hp rating's and their engines will have the same amount of drive train loss as this guy's.
By the way I just built a 540 with the holley efi system all set up to bolt on a blower with 8.5 compression and ran 570 hp and 640 ft tq for about 10g's. Add the blower and new injectors and i'll have 900hp or more, all for under 17g's or so.
I looked into running the merc efi off of a 500 hp(witch is rated at 470 hp) and it will only support about 600hp. So what this guy is claiming to run is perfectly within the relm of what can be done with the merc efi system.
Now his price is really what will determine weather or not this is a deal worth having.

Raylar
07-20-2004, 06:51 AM
The block was an absolutly GM stock 496 bloc and internals just like all the Merc engines. Stock GM pistons, rings, rods, rod bolts, bearings, oil pump, main caps and bolts, etc. We dissassembled the block, checked all the clearances and inspected the parts and reassembled the block. Absolutly nothing special was done to the block, its just like all the 496Mag and 496HO blocks you guys have.We installed our cam, our heads and manifold and off to the dyno! This package sells for $5800 plus shipping costs and applicable taxes,which includes the Heads, intake manifold, camshaft, roller rockers, head bolt kit, and head gaskets. We used plain old shell 89 octane fuel on the dyno passes and obviously all the numbers are corrected figures. We used a set of E-tops for this run and when we installed the Merc 496 manifold setup power only dropped to 521HP from 533HP. We are not selling engines yet although we will have some complete Signature engines in the near future. Our parts warranty is one year in normal marine use and yes it would jeprodize your Merc warranty if you install our parts while your motors are in warranty as it would if you modify anything on your motors. Remember the Merc ECM's record how many hours you have been running, at what rpms for how long, how many times you have hit the rev-limiter, what temps you have been running etc. If you have your stock ECM reflased by someone else they will know when you make any claim.This doesn't sound like a salesman does it!
We have already sold and shipped parts and as soon as a boat is up and running regardless of what part of the country or if its our project boat, I will report the results regardless of the news, good or bad, but I am not worried. When you make over 150 dyno pulls on an engine with our parts I am not concerned about failures or problems. for those of you who have been present at a dyno run you know how hard a dyno loads a motor during a pull. this is just like the load in a boat and the only difference is how long you load it. We did both, long and short pulls with no problems. I realize only time and actual use will tell the long term story and we are prepared to stand the test of time!
Thanks for the comebacks!
Ray @ Raylar:)

vodkarocks
07-20-2004, 07:12 AM
Ray, thanks for the info. Are you going to do the upgrades or do we have to buy the parts and find someone else to install them?

Toomstone
07-20-2004, 09:12 AM
also raylar have you experimented with changing the ecu to see if you could get even more horse?

Phat Matt
07-20-2004, 09:19 AM
Does you kit come complete with everything you would need to switch it out? And how easy or difficult are your parts to install? I've pulled some older engines apart before but have messed with my 496 at all except for doing my regular matainance.
Thanks
Matt
It sounds like it could be a winter project to me. :)

Phat Matt
07-21-2004, 06:59 PM
Any answer Raylar?

mike37
07-21-2004, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by Phat Matt
Any answer Raylar?
Phat Matt I got this reply from raylar on a PM
Mike:
You get our BigPower aluminum heads complete, a set of 1.8 ratio stainless roller rockers with adjusting nuts, a set of ARP high strengh head bolts and washers, a set of Cometic "MLS" stainless core head gaskets, and intake manifold with our fuel rail crossover and our BigPower BP103 billet cam and instruction sheets. Everything else you need is already on your motor and will be reused in the installation. The intake manifold, water pump, crossover and timing cover gaskets are all reusable. You will just need GM silicone gasket adhesive, coolant for your cooling system and some good wrench skills and tools to make the conversion. We ask that all customers take a compression check at the first opportunity when they remove their spark plugs just to make sure they don't have any physical engine problems before they do the conversion, especially if they still have warranty left. Record the results and call if you have questions about them. If you have any questions you can call me toll free at (866) 496-8181 M-F. I look forward to helping you with our kit, thanks for the reply!
Ray

Phat Matt
07-21-2004, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by mike37
Phat Matt I got this reply from raylar on a PM
Mike:
You get our BigPower aluminum heads complete, a set of 1.8 ratio stainless roller rockers with adjusting nuts, a set of ARP high strengh head bolts and washers, a set of Cometic "MLS" stainless core head gaskets, and intake manifold with our fuel rail crossover and our BigPower BP103 billet cam and instruction sheets. Everything else you need is already on your motor and will be reused in the installation. The intake manifold, water pump, crossover and timing cover gaskets are all reusable. You will just need GM silicone gasket adhesive, coolant for your cooling system and some good wrench skills and tools to make the conversion. We ask that all customers take a compression check at the first opportunity when they remove their spark plugs just to make sure they don't have any physical engine problems before they do the conversion, especially if they still have warranty left. Record the results and call if you have questions about them. If you have any questions you can call me toll free at (866) 496-8181 M-F. I look forward to helping you with our kit, thanks for the reply!
Ray
Cool. Thanks. Are you going to do it?

Toomstone
07-21-2004, 08:17 PM
so do you guys think he installs his parts???

mike37
07-21-2004, 08:18 PM
Originally posted by Phat Matt
Cool. Thanks. Are you going to do it?
I think so but not tell after summer cant have the boat down thats my only fun in the heat of summer
me and my son have ben looking for good uprades for the merc 496 but its hard to get info on that kind of stuff
tege has a simalar up grad but its not bolt on but we havent got all the info on it its on ther web sight

Phat Matt
07-21-2004, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by mike37
I think so but not tell after summer cant have the boat down thats my only fun in the heat of summer
me and my son have ben looking for good uprades for the merc 496 but its hard to get info on that kind of stuff
tege has a simalar up grad but its not bolt on but we havent got all the info on it its on ther web sight
I'm thinking it would be a winter project too. I would like to hear from some people once they get on the water with it though.

Ivan Dan
07-21-2004, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by Phat Matt
I'm thinking it would be a winter project too. I would like to hear from some people once they get on the water with it though.
ME TOO...this is what I've been waiting for.

Toomstone
07-21-2004, 09:51 PM
so do you two think raylar installs it? don't you think he would have alot less complaints and problems if he had his guys install it???

Phat Matt
07-21-2004, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by Toomstone
so do you two think raylar installs it? don't you think he would have alot less complaints and problems if he had his guys install it???
They might do it for a price. I don't know what kind of shop they are running. Maybe just manufacturing. We should just all get together over a couple of weekends with our boats in the winter and hammer them out. I'm sure by the second one we'll be flying. :)

Toomstone
07-21-2004, 10:06 PM
im thinkin about gettin it when chris winn comes back with a report. but if he has bolted it on and dyno-ed it, he must have the capability to put it on any other 496 wouldn't you think?