455 blew, NEED ADVICE, please!!!

[dekmaster]

Hi All,
I know what everyone says about the 455 olds. Now I am a believer. This is what happened, and I hope that someone can help me troubleshoot this. I was standing in the water and a big boat came came. My engine was off at the time but the wake flooded the back of the boat and there was about an inch of water on the intake manifold. I got some water off and let it sit for a while. After which I went water skiing. After two runs at about 3500 RPM, the engine stuttered backfired and died. I tried to stat it but all I heard is a very loud metalic thump while trying to turn over the crank. After getting towed for 3 hours and letting the engine cool, I tried to turn it over and after some cranking it started up. It was rough at first but it smoothed out and now runs fine. When I got home I started some troubleshooting procedures. I pulled the plugs and found that one of them had a little yellow rust on the tip. I checked the compression and they are all within 10%. (135 - 150 psi) The final step and the reason for writing this I checked the oil. GOT MILK? It's milky which means there is water there. What possible ways can the water get in there and how could I check all of the possibilities? After such loud thumping and water in the oil, why does it start up perfectly now?
Thanks in advance,
dekmaster

[BrendellaJet]

Ill bet you blew a head gasket on the cylinder with the rusty spark plug.

[dekmaster]

If the gasket blew, wouldn't I get bad compression in that cylinder? Also that metalic thumping sound that I heard do you think I permantly damged anything or was it something else?

[Wally_Gator]

You mentioned that the water was all over the intake?
Is it possable that water got into the Intake and thus down into
the cylinder(s)? The thump could have been mild hydrolock.
After the tow, there was time enough for the water to leak down into the crankcase. Start it up and it spuuters while the last of the water is shot out. Then the running afterwards starts the process of the milkshake (mixing the water into the oil).
Anyone?

[dekmaster]

There was no water in the cylinders, when I pulled the plugs out, so when I cranked it doing compression tests no water squirted out.
Dennis

[Wally_Gator]

Originally posted by dekmaster
There was no water in the cylinders, when I pulled the plugs out, so when I cranked it doing compression tests no water squirted out.
Dennis
Did you start it before running the compression test?
If it did run, the water would have been shot out through the exhaust.

[MudPumper]

He's saying after you got it fired up after the tow the water got shot out, when it was sputtering and what not. Hence no water in the cylinders at cpmpression check.

[Floored]

water on intake can bleed through bolt holes into lifter valley. check for water in distributor causing it to kick back while starting making a metallic sound. engine cooling creates a vacuum drawing the water into the engine.

[dekmaster]

Yes I did run it before doing the test. Do you guys think I should change the oil and just run for a while with a garden hose, to check whether the same thing happens or not?

[lucky]

and let her rock and rollll

[dekmaster]

What's the best way to clean her up and check for permanent damage?

[dgie]

Thats what I would do and have done when I got water in my oil. Drain the oil, replace the oil and filter. Hook up the hose and run it for a little while. I would not run it hard though then recheck it. You will probably have to replace the plugs though if they look bad. Thats my advice, these other guys may have a better idea. I am pretty new at this stuff myself. One more thing watch your oil pressure. If it is minimal there may be a problem in there.

[Floored]

fresh oil, wix filter, check inside dist cap for moisture or leave cap off and use blow drier, take to lake and drive easy and see if it runs like it used to. give it a try, nothing to lose.

[sleekvino]

Same thing happened to me...Get a new distributor cap....Cold water hit the hot plastic and cracked it...All it needs is a hairline fracture for spark to jump to other clylinders causing hard cranking and missfires...
Hopefully $20 or les should fix your problem..
Good Luck!

[dekmaster]

That's a possibility but that doesn't explain the water in the oil.

[dgie]

Here is a far fetched idea. I am not sure whether you have OT headers or logs, but maybe thru the exhaust if it sloshed in there thru the exhaust.

[dgie]

Also how is your intake covered?

[MudPumper]

Don't run the boat with a garden hose unless you can unhook your pump from the motor. Change the oil, go to the lake and run it for a little while. You may have to do this a couple of times to get all the water out. If after a couple of changes you still have milk, you have issues. Are you running a pressure reducing regulator between the pump and motor???? You may have blown a gasket.

[sleekvino]

what kind of scoop do run it could have put a ton through the top of the carb and into the motor that would put water in the oil.

[PimpJuice]

i told you

[chadjones99]

you could have gotten water down your valve cover pvc or crank case vent...in any case you have good comprestion.change the oil and take it back out just dont go out far unless you have another boat with you.
good luck
chad

[dgie]

Man this is like a mystery, cant wait to see how it ends. Hopefully on a good note. Thanks mudpumper forgot that my boat may be set up diffrently. I have a gate valve from the pump and one to the headers. I close both of them when I hook up a hose and let it suirt out the back from the outlet.

[dekmaster]

PimpJuice, yes you were right!
Everyone else, I have the stock intake flame arrestor the triangle looking one facing backwards. So yes the water could have definetly went in that way. I've to worried about the pump running out of water because before this happened I was actually planning to send the pump to get blueprinted this week. One more thing. Kragen wouldn't take my oil because it has water in it. I wonder why? So I offered them to poor it down their sink. They didn't like that and said they were going to call the cops. Where do you guys take your milkshakes.
thanks,
Dennis

[dgie]

Throw some black dye in it and take it back...Better yet leave it on their door step for when they come there in the morning, let them deal with it :D

[dekmaster]

How much water does it take to turn the oil milky? I just sucked all the old oil out changed the filter and put 5 new quarts of oil. And after running it DRY without water for 30 seconds the looks milky again.

[Cas]

let the oil and water seperate for a couple of days, syphon the water out then take it back to kragen :)
Here's my theory on what happened which is in line with a couple of the others. When the water came over the back, it soaked the distributor cap causing a bad misfire, The noise was the starter trying to turn the flywheel that was trying to rotate against the misfires and possibly causing some reversion. After the tow, the water in the cap evaporated thus allowing the engine to run better.
Change the oil, change the cap and check the water pump cover. Olds water pump covers are notorious for getting leaks which in turn dumps water right into the engine.
Have you checked the torque on your intake lately?

[396_WAYS_TO_SPIT]

Originally posted by dekmaster
PimpJuice, yes you were right!
Everyone else, I have the stock intake flame arrestor the triangle looking one facing backwards. So yes the water could have definetly went in that way. I've to worried about the pump running out of water because before this happened I was actually planning to send the pump to get blueprinted this week. One more thing. Kragen wouldn't take my oil because it has water in it. I wonder why? So I offered them to poor it down their sink. They didn't like that and said they were going to call the cops. Where do you guys take your milkshakes.
thanks,
Dennis
Just take it to AUTOZONE! We dont check out customers oil for water. We just check for foreign objects like antifreeze and gas! Anyways, the oil company can seperate the water from the oil! I aske them. Trust me, I have been an autoze employee for about 5 years!!!! If you really wanna be a jerk to kragen then do like dgie said....... leave that shit right by the front door so when they open in the morning they will HAVE to dump it!!!!!!!!! i hate kragen's customer service:mad: :mad: I get so many of thier pissed off customers. then for some od ass reason, they end up leaving my store happy. Hmmmmmmmm..................... i woner why...........THE CUSTOMER SERVICE WAS GREAT:D :D ;)
On another note, do like everyone said. Change the oil,filter an cap & rotor an let her rip!
396;)

[dekmaster]

What do you mean checking the torque on the intake? Also isn't the water pump cover on the front of the engine towards the nose of the boat? I don't think any water was there.

[MudPumper]

He means to retorque the intake to make sure you arent getting a leak from a manifold gasket. And Napa outoparts will take any kind of oil, motor, hydrolic, etc.. The Napa by me has 4 55gal drums in the front and you dump it yourself. No employees to deal with.;)

[Cas]

Originally posted by dekmaster
What do you mean checking the torque on the intake? Also isn't the water pump cover on the front of the engine towards the nose of the boat? I don't think any water was there.
Yes, the water pump cover is on the front. It may not have anything to do with what happened, might be just a coincidence. If you've changed the oil and you still have some water, it's getting in there from somewhere. Being the block still has water in it from when you ran it and you're not hooked up to a water supply, the water in the oil now is seeping in from somewhere. The water pump cover is pretty much the easiest thing to check and reseal unless it's corroded thru.

[Cas]

I also think, to be safe, I'd do a leak down test to see if there's any leaks? if there is, where is it at?
I'd hate to see you run it now and do some major damage but probably not as much as you would.

[dekmaster]

How would I do a leak down test? Also I've looking at Mondello website. What do you guys think if I do a complete engine rebuild. New cams, oil restrictors, oil pan, etc... I have K casting heads, and from what I understand those are decent. How much would it cost for parts and some machine shop labor if I did all of the rest of the work?
Thanks,
Dennis

[Cas]

Dennis,
To do a leak down, you need to fill one cylinder at a time with air and listen to see where there's a possible leak.
air coming out of the carb=intake valves or guides
air coming out of the exhaust=exhaust valves
water and air coming out the exhaust(gurgling sound)=could mean a crack in a cylinder wall
air going into the block=rings

[dekmaster]

How would I fill it with air? Also what do you think of this rebuild kit?
http://www.kanter.com/p03-eok.html
Thanks

[Cas]

You need a compressor set at about 90 psi and an attachment that screws in to the spark plug holes.
I got the following from a website, was easier to cut and paste than type :D
Remove spark plugs. Set engine to TDC #1. Calibrate test gauge per the instructions. Lock engine so it can not turn. Conect hose to spark plug hole, Connect pressurized gauge to hose connection. Read leakage. If looking for coolant leaks and nothing obvious shows up, bypass gauge and connect shop air direct to cylinder. Open radiator cap before this. If coolant sprays out, you have a head problem. Do same test on rest of cylinders. Remember to set TDC of each piston for compression stroke. This test is also great for air cooled head leaks and valve problems. Note that all engines will have some leakage past the rings. Make sure engine is secured with full pressure test. it will spin violently. With gauge connected, you can rock crankshaft to see if leakage changes. If so, this is a sign that the ring lands are wearing, new engines will also do this until the rings are seated.
If you're thinking about going to Mondello's, you need to follow the instructions in the pm I sent you :)

[Sleek-Jet]

Originally posted by dekmaster
How would I do a leak down test? Also I've looking at Mondello website. What do you guys think if I do a complete engine rebuild. New cams, oil restrictors, oil pan, etc... I have K casting heads, and from what I understand those are decent. How much would it cost for parts and some machine shop labor if I did all of the rest of the work?
Thanks,
Dennis
Mondildo = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, and poor customer service.
Check out www.realoldspower.com and also look at the Olds Faq page (www.442.com/oldsfaq/oldsfaq.htm). That'll give you an idea about what you need to do.

[CrdStang]

I don't think there is anything wrong with your engine that would warrant a rebuild.
Basically, if you have good oil pressure, good compression and no scary noises, 99% chance there is nothing majorly wrong with your engine.
If it keeps milk shaking the oil, then it's probably a gasket, hopefully not a head gasket.

[Mark Sims]

Sleekjet is right about mondello. Go to realoldspower and you will see what it takes to make an olds live. Otherwise you will be picking up pieces of motor with a corn scoop shovel. Avoid mondello.

[dekmaster]

Well, I guess or hope that things are looking good! I've changed the oil three times and the water seems to be dissapearing. I have yet to do a wet run. I just start it for about 10 seconds and change the oil and drain the filter. How many times do you guys think I should change the oil before letting run for a considerable amount of time? After this mishap I thought about selling the boat but looking at many other boats for replacement I realized that your boat is your boat and nothing is better. I will fix it up whatever it takes and hopefully someday cruise with you guys that have hot boats out there!
Thanks,
Dennis
P.S.
If anyone has any parts for an OLDS 455 please let me know. my budget is tighter that a virgin, but maybe we can work something out.

[MudPumper]

It will take a few oil changes to get all the milkshake out. Clean it up and run it at the lake for a little bit and pull a valve cover. No milkshake, no problem. Milkshake, back to the drawing board.

[fujimo]

wouldn't it be agood idea to get the engiine up to normal operating temps to help get any remaining water out

[sleekvino]

easy on the oil changes it takes a while for the water to burn off.go run your boat out in the water and bring your temp up to about 180 for an hour and check the dip stick through out the run if it looks good then run with it.

[Cas]

fuj,
That's exactly what I did when I forgot to check the torque of the intake bolts after a new installation. I milkshaked the oil, found the problem, tightened the intake back down and shut the water valve way down. I ran the motor at 240º for about 4 minutes or so, no more milkshake and the engine ran great for quite a long time afterwards.
What made my decision to that was the oil level on the dipstick was not visibly different than it was prior to water entry. I figured there wasn't much in there so what the heck.

[Wet Dream]

What caused the engine to die in the first place?
These guys have given you great answers so far. The clunk you heard when restarting could be fuel pooling in the cylinder too. If you had a float stick open, which flooded the engine in the first place and killed it. Then as time went by evaped a little so that you could get it started, but still enough in the cylinder to hydro it. Then like you said it took a little while to get it smooth again. You may have 2 issues going on here which might look as one.
The first issue being what I just described above. Then the second issue being that you have too much water pressure coming from the jet to the engine. This would cause you to milkshake the engine. And it takes less than a half a cup of water to do that. You should have a gate valve, or other pressure reducing device before any water goes to the engine.
If you've changed the oil 3 times already, although it sounds like you didn't run it long enough, you should be able to run it out on the water, get the oil and engine up to temp and the remaining water will steam out of the engine.

[dekmaster]

I just did my final oil change and ran with water for about 10 minutes. No water in oil!!! I'm getting excited again. Thanks to everyone who replied to me. By the way i have Ka casting heads. Are they any good?
Dennis

[dgie]

I Looked up KA in my book they are pretty much mixed in with the "J" heads. The first casting was done in 1973 and the last was 1976. I would say they are smog heads like the "J" heads not real sure on that though, maybe someone can chime in with a little more information. I have the "j" heads on mine and am looking for anything but, from what I understand they rob you power...:(

[FEDERAL1]

I have lots of 455 high performance parts you may need let me know