Sad PWC story

[unleashed]

Someone just told me about this and supposebly the father is going to sue the PWC rental place(Not absolutely sure about the lawsuit but my bud said he saw the story somewhere). Another sad story...
Tahoe Daily Tribune 7/21/04:
A media storm hit South Lake Tahoe Police Department on Tuesday as investigators looked into a personal watercraft accident that killed two young cousins.
"I have talked to every news crew in the entire region it feels like," said Lt. Terry Daniels. "The investigation got delayed a couple hours because of that."
Daniels fielded requests from television stations in Reno and the Bay Area and newspapers from Barstow and Sacramento.
"It's the most (media attention) we've had in some time and I'm sure that's attributed to the victims being children," Daniels said.
Interest was spawned from an accident Monday off Ski Run Marina Village that killed 15-year-old Ashley Wagner and 6-year-old Jordan Cockrell. The two cousins were sharing a rented Waverunner. They lost control of the personal watercraft and hit another cousin as he sat on an idling Waverunner.
A final report by Boating Safety Officer Steve O'Brien is expected to be completed today.
"He's writing like crazy," Daniels said. "You can imagine the paperwork involved with this."
Coroner Pete Van Arnum was waiting Tuesday afternoon for a doctor so an autopsy can be conducted. Van Arnum said Jordan, from Hayward, and Ashley, from Barstow, either died from internal injuries or drowning, even though the two were wearing life jackets.
Attention may turn toward the ages of the victims. California law states a person must be 16 to operate a personal watercraft. In Nevada, it's 14 and drivers must have taken a boat licensing course, according to Kirk Kelly, the executive director of the American Personal Watercraft Rental Association in Reno.
To rent them in either state, Kelly said, a person has to be 18 years old.
The association represents 3,000 personal watercraft rental companies nationwide and helps set safety policies.
"In our opinions a personal watercraft operated by a noneducated driver would equal major safety problems," he said.
Assistant District Attorney Hans Uthe said his office was waiting for the reports.
"We're not in a position to comment because we haven't received anything," Uthe said. "We'll wait and see what gets presented."
Phone calls to the manager at Ski Run Boat Company were not returned.
At Zephyr Cove Marina on the Nevada side, the minimum age to operate a Waverunner is 15 years old, one above the minimum. Assistant Manager Josh Bainton said workers are vigilant to assure riders are old enough.
"We just want (riders) to be safe, including ourselves," he said.
Nita Boles, national spokeswoman and co-founder of the Coalition of Parents and Families for Personal Watercraft Safety, was saddened by the news of the two deaths.
Boles' 16-year-old daughter was killed in a 1998 Fourth of July personal watercraft accident on a lake in Texas. Her group's goal is to have mandatory education in boating safety.
"Imagine the pilot of your plane not having some form of education and he's flying you somewhere," she said. "Personal watercraft is the entry level craft. They're quite dangerous in the hands of someone who is an uneducated boater."

[Boozer]

If the parents were to sue I would see that being both a justice and an injustice.
It's BS that the father would sue because his child dead due to his own negligence. He allowed the child to operate the vessel therefore he is just as responsible for the childs death as anyone else and suing really isn't just.
However, if the father does sue and manages to win there is going to be a hail storm of law suits over the next couple of years that will result in a lot changes. Changes for the better. Ultimately the jet ski rental business will fold due to no longer being able to obtain affordable insurance or they will make changes so that uneducated people can not and will not get their hands on PWC's. That IMO would be a great justice.

[Dr. Eagle]

I just wonder about renting PWCs. They always seem to be the ones on the lakes I boat and ride my PWCs in that are causing problems, through total lack of knowledge and judgement.
That is really sad...
I agree that manditory boating training would be a good idea, especially for PWCs and perhaps those rental places should just go away.

[unleashed]

Im all for a safety course for people that want to rent or buy for that matter.
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :devil:

[Scream]

This is a terrible story. I think the father suing anyone for his missed opportunity to parent is rediculous IMO. Be that as it may, it seems to me that even those PWC style boats are missused. The owners/opperators of those Seadoo boats or Yamaha boats (if that's what they're called) are just as senseless as the Lake Lice drivers.
Today, coming home from Powell/Vegas, a PWC Boat owner passed me doin about 75 or 80 in the #1 lane (far left) like it was the right thing to do...BONEHEAD.

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by Scream
This is a terrible story. I think the father suing anyone for his missed opportunity to parent is rediculous IMO. Be that as it may, it seems to me that even those PWC style boats are missused. The owners/opperators of those Seadoo boats or Yamaha boats (if that's what they're called) are just as senseless as the Lake Lice drivers.
Today, coming home from Powell/Vegas, a PWC Boat owner passed me doin about 75 or 80 in the #1 lane (far left) like it was the right thing to do...BONEHEAD.
If I wasn't an owner and operator of two Sea Doos, I'd have to agree... Only problem here is that I do agree. Since the PWCs have been around for a number of years, one can be had for a song, compared to our more expensive boats. Folks that get them for a thousand or two, have generally had little experience boating or riding before. As a consequence, you end up with a bunch of yahoos riding like they are the only ones on the lake or river.
The industry would be well served to provide training BEFORE they product leaves the showroom. Problem with that is there are a gazillion out there on the used market. It really needs to be a responsibility of everyone to get that kind of training.
Most of the operators seem to have no regard for safety or don't understand the possible consequences of riding irresponsibly. Better enforcement would help, but if the industry doesn't step up and push safety training... they may all be out of jobs one of these days...

[Blingette]

Originally posted by unleashed
Im all for a safety course for people that want to rent or buy for that matter.
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :devil:
Absolutley a training course. But for a rental how much time do you spend before they can rent it? It's an awful thing that happened and any parent who reads this will think about a similar situation in the future. The responsible parent in this inncident should be ashamed of letting a child take a PWC out by themselves. I'm seeing ignorance. Water. PWC. Child.
DUH

[Scream]

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
If I wasn't an owner and operator of two Sea Doos, I'd have to agree... Only problem here is that I do agree. Since the PWCs have been around for a number of years, one can be had for a song, compared to our more expensive boats. Folks that get them for a thousand or two, have generally had little experience boating or riding before. As a consequence, you end up with a bunch of yahoos riding like they are the only ones on the lake or river.
The industry would be well served to provide training BEFORE they product leaves the showroom. Problem with that is there are a gazillion out there on the used market. It really needs to be a responsibility of everyone to get that kind of training.
Most of the operators seem to have no regard for safety or don't understand the possible consequences of riding irresponsibly. Better enforcement would help, but if the industry doesn't step up and push safety training... they may all be out of jobs one of these days...
You're right on point here Doc. Training or something that resembles training...The problem is most boaters will resist any form of regulation, as you well know. Too bad but that's the reality.

[MagicMtnDan]

Of course the fathers of the two children will sue. They'll sue anyone they can, anyone around them, and there'll be an unlimited number of lawyers calling them to tell them how much money they can get them for their pain and suffering.
Too bad John Edwards is running for VP otherwise he'd be calling them too. Bastages!

[unleashed]

Originally posted by Blingette
Absolutley a training course. But for a rental how much time do you spend before they can rent it? It's an awful thing that happened and any parent who reads this will think about a similar situation in the future. The responsible parent in this inncident should be ashamed of letting a child take a PWC out by themselves. I'm seeing ignorance. Water. PWC. Child.
DUH
Yeah I dont know what the answer would be about how much time to spend before renting. Maybe a 1/2 or 1 hour video or something then sign a release form stating you viewed the safety course and are releasing the company of liabitlity. This would most likely kill business for the rental companies but thats what we may be headed for. I'll be honest years ago when I rode these things I had no ideal of what I should be watching out for.
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :devil:

[shueman]

It's time for operator licensing; period. If you don't know what your doin', get the hell off the water.
I've seen it time and again. The owner(or renter) of a PWC brings it to the beach and everybody has to take a ride. No previous experience, no boating knowledge, etc. Just get on and go. The liability has to go with the owner or rentee.
How many more sensless deaths have to occur before we do something pro-active to remedy the situation...???

[framer1]

Years ago my son and I went to Pismo Dunes to rent quads before he turned sixteen they made him take a course before he could get on one. I took it with him since I had nothing else to do it took about two hours but it was worth it. He got a certiate(sp) so he would not have to take it again if we came back some other day. Maybe they should do something like that.

[HavasuDreamin']

First off, my condolences to the family and friends of the deceased. What a terrible tragedy. :( Two lives lost way too young which could have and should have been prevented. :(
As I see it, insurance is about to go sky high on these things and regulations resulting from deaths will be increased. Effectively, this will kill the rental business (which is good IMHO) and keep alot of the people who have no knowledge and little regard for anyone else off of them.
These things are basically motor cycles on water. The state doesn't let anyone ride a motor cycle on public roadways without proper licensing. Does this cure all the problems? No. Does it mandate a certain level of education prior to being unleashed on the roadways? Yes. It gives everyone the basics and makes them aware of the dangers. Accidents still happen, but I can only imagine how many more motorcycle accidents there would be if licensing wasn't required. :eek:
It is time for all people operating watercraft to become licensed. Yes that goes for boats too. To the people who say the government is in our business too much already, I say unfortunately they have to be because we as an American society, are in general, too stupid to watch out for our own safety and indirectly the safety of others.
A licensing program will significantly cut into the rental business and effectively eliminate an element that is not educated....... thus making the waters safer. A license will also prohibit daddy warbucks with no boating experience from being able to go out and buy a 140 mph cat, or 115 mph STV, etc. and blast across the lake with no training. A license will also be able to keep track of how many violations a boater has (similar to points on an automotive DL) and keep repeat offenders off the water (theoretically or provide fines possible jail time for multiple repeat offenders). For those that are responsible, a license is nothing more than a simple test similar to automobiles. No big deal. In and out in an hour or two.
HD :cool:

[HavasuDreamin']

Originally posted by riodog
Licensing anything usually just turns into a government revenue scheme that really doesn't get the end result that was sought in the first place.
Potentially true and you are right, it doesn't cure stupidity. However, I would argue that with a DL and point system, eventually you can suspend the license and keep some of the repeat offenders off the water.
Originally posted by riodog
AS FOR DRIVING A CAR,
Education is the answer but it has to be taught along with basic drivers ed in the beginning so my question would be - DO you think a basic water safety class would acomplish the intended goal and how long and how many hours/years would it have to be to get the desired result?
To me, how long it takes to accomplish the result is not the question. If it takes 2 years, 5 years, whatever.........the sooner you get started, the sooner lives can be potentially saved. Would a basic water saftety class accomplish the goal? Only time would tell for sure, but if it had boat operation training as part of it along with rules of the waterway, it would be a good start.
Originally posted by riodog
Maybe there ought to be "designated" lakes where only PWCs are allowed and keep them completely off of other areas. They could put a bullseye on back and let-um have at it!
That would solve the problem of PWC's cutting boats off, jumping wakes etc., but would not prevent the accident that started this thread. I don't like to read about kids dieing when riding PWC's. That sucks. :(