NEW DUAL INPELLER PUMPS

[BLOWNDRAGBOAT]

NEWS....NEWS....NEWS....NEWS....NEWS....NEWS
Just found out Monday that Aggressor(NO COMMENTS FROM YOU CHET) is testing 2 new DUAL drive platforms utilizing a single input dual output gearbox that can be underdriven,overdriven or 1 to 1 driven. They are based on aggressors 13000 series pump and the 70000 series pump. I am understanding that it will utilize dual intakes and inpellers with a single LARGER nozzle area. I am told that it will revolutionize jetboating. Think about how cool it would be to change your drive ratio's in the gear box to get your rpm where you want it rather than changing impellers. I am expecting a call from Dave @ aggressor for some updates on this. STAYTUNED. I will update as soon he calls me tomarrow.

[rivercrazy]

Seeing results is believing. I'm a bit skeptical

[SCOTT]

I heard from a friend about a guy who ran a z drive between the motor and jet to under drive the pump so his motor could run 8500 and his pump 6500 and he halled ass.I have run A impellers at 5800 and cut them down in steps to b/c and turned 6500 and seen no change in speed or et.It could be that my motor has a big flat tork curve. when you cut the impeller down to let your motor run in its power range you loose the efficency of the pump,I think there on the right track!
[This message has been edited by SCOTT (edited October 04, 2001).]

[RiverToysJas]

How do the double impeller pump that Ultra is using work? I guess from what I gleaned from the pages of Hot Boat that a smaller, "PWC" impeller loads the main impeller. How? and Why? I guess it reduces cavitation of the main impeller. Why would it? I don't doubt that it better, I just have never seen a blow-up of one and don't understand it http://www.kurrus.net/1smileys/classic34.gif .
RTJason

[old rigger]

Years ago, in the 70's at Hawaiian, we (I say we only in the sense that I was working there, I didn't know shit about riggin' boats yet. Some would say that I still don't!!! and they might be right) built a few 25's or 28's with dual pumps in them. They ran BBC's that were staggered slightly because the intakes were set up pretty close together. As I remember the things ran like stink. The only problem, aside from carrying enough gas, was when the boat was put into a tight turn, the outside pump would cavitate and spin the boat out. Almost killed Schuster, throwing him against the side of the boat, hitting his head pretty hard.
I'm sure that the guys at Aggressor have already thought this thing through and it will be interesting to see what they come up with.
You guys remember those little Amphi-cars from the 60's.( a little car that was a boat too.) They also ran a dual v-drive, single input-dual output, but on a much smaller scale of course. After all they were only running a little Triumph 4 cyl. for power, but the idea is the same. They were turning props, not pumps.
Ain't nothin new. Ideas just keep going in cycles.

[RiverToysJas]

I think the double impeller pumps we're talking about are two impellers in one pump to one output, all inline.
RTJason

[RiverToysJas]

I think the double impeller pumps we're talking about are two impellers in one pump to one output, all inline.
RTJason
Sorry for the double post!
[This message has been edited by RiverToysJas (edited October 04, 2001).]

[old rigger]

RTJ,
opps. I just re-read blowndragboats original post. Never mind what I said. What the hell do I know?????????

[BLOWNDRAGBOAT]

RTJ....The thing your talking about is called a stuffer or preloader impeller. It is mounted on the shaft INFRONT of the main impeller and helps FEED water to the impeller to reduce cavitation. It works better in heavy boats and boats running nitrous and blowers. The pump I am talking about is basically DOUBLE in size to that of a regular intake. It pulls water with 2 side by side impellers and discharges it thru a larger nozzle. It uses a gear box similar to a castle V-drive but instead of one output shaft, this one has 2 output shafts turning 2 side by side impellers. The top fuel hydro guys just started running the "W" drive setup with twin v drive setups and SHATTERED the topfuel world record and top speed. Jets will never be the same again. If they get this technology right, and theres no reason why they won't, then WOW! Can you imagine how hard your boat will get out of the hole with TWICE the thrust? And as a pro-engine builder, the boat tuning capabilities are endless. You could set up a pair of twin B impellers and then change the gearing in the box to get you desired rpm,holshot AND mph. I will keep everyone updated after my call tomarrow. PEACE!!!!!!

[ChetCapoli]

Dammmmmmnnnn BDB,
Give it a rest will ya! what is it with you and aggressor??? "never be the same again"...those are some strong words dude!
just kiddin
chet

[old rigger]

Hey, I was half right. Kinda.
This thing sounds pretty cool.
BDB, Post some pics when you get them......

[chet's mother]

Easy Chet, take a pill.....

[RiverToysJas]

Cool, thanks. Now we just need adjustable nossels, like jet fighters have!!! That way when the rooster comes up, we could squeeze it down to sweeper size and really wash the cars on the Laughlin bridge, HECK the Golden Gate for that matter!
WOW, twice the pressure! With all that pressure in the bowl, it'll probably blow the transom off of my boat!
RTJas

[BLOWNDRAGBOAT]

Its long over due technology.....I am expecting a call from my contact at aggressor tomarrow around 1pm my time. I will find out more and pass it along. They are planning on an inwater boat test within the next 60 days. If it works then all the other popular manufactures should follow suit. Remember...YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST. Not even HB has mentioned it yet. Anyway, I will keep my bud's informed. PEACE!!!!!!!!!

[old rigger]

BDB,
Layed in bed late last night thinking about what you described with this dual jet set up, and your being told it will revolutionize the jet boating world. Obviously I don't have a clue as to what these guys are putting together, only have the info that you outlined for us but I do think that revolutionize is a pretty broad statement by them. Maybe an overstatement.
Part of the charm and atraction of owning a jet is their sheer simplicty and minumum of moving parts. This set up that you told us about, although very impressive, is going to do away with that. Nothing very simple about a dual output v-drive set up, turning twin impellers. It might very well turn the racing world on it's ear and maybe that is the intended market. I don't know. And, if it works, it will offer another drive system to the new boat buyer.
I can't help but think of all the big blocks out there that, in stock form, can barely pull one impeller at 4600 rpm. Maybe the impellers are smaller on this new unit. I don't know all the different model #s of their products that you listed above, and this would certainly make a difference.
When I think of something revolutionizing the jet boating world, a product that can be used by the existing jet owners now, only one product and one name comes to mind. Frank Place. His product truly did change the face of jet boating. I don't remember who had the adjustable nozzle first, Berkley had that jetavator unit that was a screw drive set up and you had to rotate the bowl on the pump and so on, but Franks unit was so clean and simple in comparison. Can't think of a jet boat, aside from one set up for racing, that can't benefit from using one. Just bolt it on and INSTANT results, on any boat. Not many products can lay claim to that.
I hope this new unit works and I'll be the first in line to see it in action and go for a ride.
I'm certainly not raggin' on you or the guys at Aggressor, so please don't take it that way. It's projects like this that will add to the hobby of boating. I think it's great that they are developing somethine new rather than sitting on their thumbs. But that is a big statement to make (revolotionize).
I was just thinking out loud.
You got my attention.........

[Unchained]

BDB thanks for the info about the new twin jet drive. Aggressor has a news item about it in the current Drag Boat Review that came out a couple weeks ago, right under the news item about the twin v-drive box.
I hope with the new drive that they come up with a way to get more lift as I feel this is the main problem with the current jet pump. The pump intake is always trying to draw itself down into the water, and overcharging the intake seems like a band aid to get lift.
Speaking of new designs did you see the new cavitation reducer that was in Drag Boat Review ? It looks like a big corkscrew that is almost the same diameter as the impeller at the rear and tapers smaller toward the front all the way to the bearing. That company claimed that it completely eliminated cavitation and someone could mat the throttle from a dead stop.
Who Knows?

[LVjetboy]

OldRigger, I think your instincts are right on. The added losses from gearing and turning twin screws, not to mention cost, complexity and reliability issues, will limit the market. That aside, I do love to see new pump ideas. Few and far between....more power to them! Keep us posted BDB...
jer

[BLOWNDRAGBOAT]

After speaking to the aggressor people, as well as Ron Braaksma racing, being able to change the gear ratio's in the box combined with turning smaller TWIN impellers and more efficient intake/bowl designs should pick up peformance considerably. I don't know how much it will help with stock or semi stock big blocks but most of us have large engines. I PERSONNELLY should see a huge performance advantage if the technology turns out to be valid and worth the expense for changing over. I am running HUGE cubic inch blower motors and can tune up or down to the desired torque curve with ease. I think this whole thing will have it's good points and bad points like anything else. We will see after the initial testing period. I think it will take another 6 months to a year to get it perfect or at least perfected enough to put into the market place. I will keep everyone posted as soon as more info is available.
Haven't had the chance to test the new screw type of inducer's yet. I am hoping to soon. I am curently developing a design of my own and hope to be testing it soon as well. I will keep ya posted.