AGGRESSOR DUAL PUMP TEST???

[HBjet]

A buddy of mine at Lake Elsinore said Aggressor was there testing the dual pump setup on Wednesday in a Hawaiian hull and it couldn't even get out of the lagoon.
Dave, is this true? What were the results of your testing a few days ago? Do you know the next time you guys are going to test, I'd like to be there. Thanks
HBjet

[ChetCapoli]

as i have said before HB, you really have a problem with their stuff dont you?
Let me ask, next time they go out if you are there and they possibly "cant get out of the lagoon" like you say, would you...
1)offer to help or
2) do nothing and come on here to ridicule and basically say "i told you so"?
thanks in advance for clearing it up for me(like i know you will)
chet

[miller killer]

HB Jet nose out of legends ass!Just because you say aggressor is having problems,big deal we all know rome wasn't built in a day!what are the other pump manufacture doing to improve the sport.If it wasnt for aggressor and companies like them that do r and d you would still be wathing black and white t.v. and trying to get connected on the internet on a rotary phone,show some respect,P.S. where bringing the wrath to elsinore to smoke everything you guys got!

[canuck1]

Actually, I'm very interested in the test results of this new set up. I believe that HB is too. It looks to me that some people read a little to much into some posts. Dave please keep us informed
Mike

[DickDanger]

I would agree that testing new ideas will help to advance our sport into new territory, but there is no reason to be telling HBJet to remove his nose from Berkeley. So what if that is his personal preference? -DD out
[This message has been edited by DickDanger (edited February 08, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by DickDanger (edited February 08, 2002).]

[miller killer]

I didnt say berkeley DICK,I said Legend,if i need an english lesson maybe you need a reading lesson!

[froggystyle]

Originally posted by miller killer:
I didnt say berkeley DICK,I said Legend,if i need an english lesson maybe you need a reading lesson!
What the hell is wrong with you???? He was CORRECTING you because HBJet digs Berk. Noone likes legend. They must have a cheerleader on another board or something.

[canuck1]

Hey Froggy saw your pictures today .........COOL.........

[flat broke]

Originally posted by miller killer:
I didnt say berkeley DICK,I said Legend,if i need an english lesson maybe you need a reading lesson!
MK, Hopefully you're better at making boats run fast than making friends.
Chris www.liquidaddiction.net (http://www.liquidaddiction.net)

[RiverToysJas]

This pump has the potential to be really great! Giving twice the thrust volume and only adding, what maybe 60 - 80 lbs maybe less? Seriously, I'm with HB in watching this very close. I look forward to profiling this new pump for rivertoys. I like everything about it.
RTJas - independant Berkley powered jet boat owner and webmaster with no connections to any pump manufacturer, re-manufacturer, or repair shop - past or present. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

[HBjet]

Chet and Miller Killer, where the hell am I bashing, or ridiculing Aggressor? Huh? You guys are WAY too much. All I'm asking is for some test results because I'm just as curious as the next guy. Did I ever say it will not work? NO! I just want to know what the deal was on Wed.
Miller Killer, where am I disrespecting Aggressor? Does my post sound like I'm trying to pick a fight? Calm down big fella, save that energy for the Elsinore. Your wrath may be nothing but a vision of hope. All you are doing is looking like an AssHole.
Chet, I have no problem with Aggressor. Just curious, like you are right?
Before some of you Hot Headed people respond to my post, make sure you know what your going to say so you don't sound like you have your head up your ass. Thanks http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif
BTW, I think this is the boat that was out there.
http://home.socal.rr.com/boatbutts/TP.jpg
Just how do I find this stuff one might ask http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
HB"Ridicule"jet

[77charger]

Originally posted by RiverToysJas:
RTJas - independant Berkley powered jet boat owner and webmaster with no connections to any pump manufacturer, re-manufacturer, or repair shop - past or present. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
just say youre a do it yourselfer but have all the blueprint and work done at the same place i do

[Johnwithjm]

I don`t think HBJET is out of line in any way. He is just asking a ? Last time I checked this is america and your intitled to have an opinion. What ever pump works for you go with it. I have tried alot of pumps and some work better than others it depends on your set up and what works for you. Sounds like I might have to check out all these fast guys at Lake Elsinore
[This message has been edited by Johnwithjm (edited February 08, 2002).]

[RiverToysJas]

Originally posted by HBjet:
http://home.socal.rr.com/boatbutts/TP.jpg
No strakes? What year was that hull made? Is it just me or does that look odd to anyone else?
RTJas

[RiverToysJas]

Originally posted by 77charger:
just say youre a do it yourselfer but have all the blueprint and work done at the same place i do
That's a true statement!

[HBjet]

Originally posted by RiverToysJas:
Is it just me or does that look odd to anyone else?
Yes, it does look odd, there are two pumps http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif

[ChetCapoli]

Originally posted by HBjet:
A buddy of mine at Lake Elsinore said Aggressor was there testing the dual pump setup on Wednesday in a Hawaiian hull and it couldn't even get out of the lagoon.
Dave, is this true?
HBjet
HB now what does that sound like to you? To me... "couldnt even get out of the lagoon" sounds like ridicule. I am way to much?? Look in the mirror my friend. I am not the one who wont try different stuff on my boat. "Its all been tested before", just plain old BS.
Chet
[This message has been edited by ChetCapoli (edited February 08, 2002).]

[HBjet]

Chet, it sounds like someone telling me that they were there, and then boat couldn't get out of the lagoon because it couldn't get on plain. How else would I say it. I was told, the boat couldn't get out of the lagoon, so why would I reword it? I didn't say "The Aggressor dual pump boat couldn't get out of the lagoon, they should have used Berkeley" Stop with the test my boat with this and then that when you have never done it yourself. So quit telling me what I should do when you should do it before you push it on everyone else, you might have some dissappointed customers Chet.
BTW, please don't turn this topic into the ones you live for, We've said our pieces more then once here, drop it as I have and try to be somewhat productive.
HBjet
[This message has been edited by HBjet (edited February 08, 2002).]

[Kwicherbichen]

Originally posted by Johnwithjm:
I don`t think HBJET is out of line in any way. He is just asking a ? Last time I checked this is america and your intitled to have an opinion. What ever pump works for you go with it. I have tried alot of pumps and some work better than others it depends on your set up and what works for you. Sounds like I might have to check out all these fast guys at Lake Elsinore
[This message has been edited by Johnwithjm (edited February 08, 2002).]
Hey John, I'll be on the tow crew if you need a hand. I'd like to see that Crusader run.
Just a side note
I don't really have a jet preference so to speak but I have been to the Aggressor Factory in Gardena. It is a huge foundry that makes some pretty impressive pump stuff. A lot of it I couldn't even tell what it was or what it did but it looked cool. I spoke with Dave and he gave me the full tour and showed me some of the things that set Aggressor apart from other jetdrives. Of course I'm no expert, so a lot of it was Greek to me. I can tell you that Dave is very passionate about making the best product for boaters period. I also got a peek at the #2 version of the double pump. It's basically 2 full pumps occuping one inlet and driven via a gearbox. It's kinda odd looking because, well..........you just don't see that kinda thing everyday. On the other hand it looks pretty bad ass with 2 pumps sticking out of the transom. Aparently version #1 is for boats up to 600 hp and #2 is for boats over 600 hp. I'm not 100% sure how it's gonna work out in the end so don't quote me on that one.
Anyway, I had a good time on my little trip to Aggressor and would suggest the same for anyone that interested in pump development. Just call Dave and ask.
I haven't heard any details from this test that HBjet is talking about but I did hear about a different test that happened about 3 weeks ago. It was done on a smaller boat with a V-6. It apparently ran pretty good according to a local boat manufacture.
Brian

[Payton]

I wonder who will have the first sucessful test? I understand Harold Bruce developed the twin intake and brought the idea to Agressor. Harold is making it so people can buy the kit and put it with what ever pump they want. Makes sense to me.
If a person is running a Berkley, they only have to buy 1 more pump and the twin intake and gearbox kit.
Of course, I don't think Agressor likes that to much. So the marketing race is on.

[Unchained]

I have to applaude anyone who tries new ideas whether they work good or not. No matter what the results are I couldn't see myself sawing twice the size hole I have now in the bottom of the boat for the new intake as well as the additional cost. Also common sense tells me that two pumps are not going to make twice the thrust. I would speculate that it would devide the motor HP between the two pumps[minus the losses of running the gears] and they both will need to run a lot smaller impeller. I hope the new unit works well for them and the results are tremendous.

[RiverDave2]

Can I ask y'all a question?
I'm not a pump guy and most of you know that.. But it looks to me like there replacing one big pump with two medium pumps.. Basically in effect just adding some more thrust by having two pumps that produce more nozzle diameter then a single..
Why not just make one pump a little bigger?
RD

[spectras only]

I for one, like less reciprocating/turning parts with less maintenance [don't care much for duoprops either],but there are people who would do anything just to gain 1 MPH http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gif.I give them credit trying something different but would like to see any gains with same horsepower.

[RiverDave2]

For gains with the same horsepower that Super jet dealio from Dana looked like a pretty good idea.. Ya know the thingy, up down right left, with the varying nozzle size etc.. didn't it have like an 8mph gain?
RD

[Tinkerboater]

CC and MK ----- You still haven't learned that no one wants to read the crap you guys are writing. Lets all try to get along. There are other ways to voice your opinion without getting everyone mad at you. Your ideas are just that-YOURS. Others have their own opinions about what works best on their boats. If everyone had the same opinion we would all be driving the same boats.

[spectras only]

RD ,even though the Dana unit looked more complicated it was a genuine design. This twin thingy doesn't look attractive to me .Just MHO http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Cas]

Originally posted by RiverDave2:
Why not just make one pump a little bigger?
RD
I was thinking the same thing RD. I also still think some sort of a transmission would work too.

[Kwicherbichen]

Originally posted by RiverDave2:
Can I ask y'all a question?
Why not just make one pump a little bigger?
RD
Good question RD. All i can say is, I don't know. I'm definately not an engineer and couldn't even begin to think how it might be done. When I talked to Dave at Aggressor he said that although some changes are done totally by design priciples others happen by accident. It's my understanding it took hundreds of tries at the light bulb before one actually worked properly? Only time and testing will tell if this thing actually works in the end.
One other thing to consider, if it works, who will buy it if the results aren't a huge jump over a single jetdrive?
Brian

[Cole]

hey kids,well i was there with Harold Bruce and saw the testing of the boat.It is a new 24' spectra with twin aggreser pumps conected to a single intake.And yes the boat got out of the lagoon!!! it performed well for its maiden run.Harold ran a VERY mild motor and top speed was about45-50 mph.There are some changes that need to be done,the motor was placed in the middle of the boat for the idea of a mid engine ,but that caused some serious plowing and he had to keep the trim up to keep it level,and more hp would i think help!!
The spectra is a very heavy boat so i think with some changes to setup and hp this is a great alternative to an outdrive.After some changes he should get some better numbers on the next outing!!!! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif Cole

[spectras only]

Someone I know had a ca1980 24 Charger [similar to the 24 spectra in size @ hull bottom]with a single 454 LS-6 and Berk Jet doing the same speed posted above! He converted it to SD to achieve more speed.Was a Smart decision http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gifBTW Cole, what do you mean by NEW spectra http://free.***boat.net/ubb/confused.gif ?
[This message has been edited by spectras only (edited February 10, 2002).]

[BADAXE]

Originally posted by Cole:
hey kids,well i was there with Harold Bruce and saw the testing of the boat.It is a new 24' spectra with twin aggreser pumps conected to a single intake.....
The spectra is a very heavy boat so i think with some changes to setup and hp this is a great alternative to an outdrive.
IF you really there I think you would know it wasn't a Spectra.

[RiverDave2]

What is it?
RD

[spectras only]

Looks like those twin jets mounted on a 24 Bayliner http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif There's some clue though ;a delta pad !
[This message has been edited by spectras only (edited February 10, 2002).]

[Payton]

Badaxe, you're right. The little article in ***boat mentioned the boat the Harold was useing, it wasn't a Spectra. Maybe the testing was being done by Agressor, not Harold Bruce.
Harold is using a 600hp engine. That's mild by some standards, not mine.

[Cole]

im sorry i dont know why i said a new spectra,they were using a 24'shiada....sorry for the wrong post!!! Cole

[Payton]

Cole, that's what hot boat mag said. Now I believe you. Bruce said that boat weighs about 4500 lbs. That's heavy for a 24', my 26' weighs 3800 lbs.

[JohnATJmmarine]

The pictures I saw the pumps were in a 16ft texas tunnel with a v6. I heard that test went well. It doesn`t take much to push that small of a boat. Dave will make it work good luck

[Eric]

http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v0/8/97/78/31089778WBObTeTonB_ph.jpg
http://imagem.webphotos.iwon.com/1000030568/1000030568_211200244953PM0.6291315.jpg
[This message has been edited by Eric (edited February 11, 2002).]

[spectras only]

A 24 Spectra XS weighs about 4000pounds dry, the XL is another 400 pounds with the galley option.These boats were ALL FIBERGLASS ,unlike the new boats with balsa core or foam core,hence the weight difference for same size boats of today.The 24 had extra foamcore added underside of the foredeck [1 3/4 inch thick total] .That's another reason the old boats can't keep up with the new ones, even with power like my LS-6 [450 HP stock].Boy I need a twin turbo to put on mine http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gif

[RiverDave]

Originally posted by Eric:
http://community.webshots.com/storage/1/v0/8/97/78/31089778WBObTeTonB_ph.jpg
http://imagem.webphotos.iwon.com/1000030568/1000030568_211200244953PM0.6291315.jpg
[This message has been edited by Eric (edited February 11, 2002).]
Now this could be the solution.. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif Nice pic Eric! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
In all seriousness though, Dave from Agressor has taken alot of shit on this board.. I think alot of that stems from a certain member that a few people (myself included) like to take pot shots at when there bored.. In all reality though, any person that is willing to do R & D to try and improve the way things are done is good in my book. The funny thing about R & D is there are many failures before you get to the one that works well. I don't think it's fair to judge a person or company based upon there experiments during R & D.. Now if it's based upon there current products that's one thing, but something to keep in mind.. When's the last time ANYONE has seen something that's revolutionary in the jet market? 70's? http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif
In other words I'm glad to see someone out there doing something! God knows all you jet folk need all the help you can get.. Gotta be a rough life gettin spanked by Props with 1/2 the horsepower.. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif j/k
RD
[This message has been edited by RiverDave (edited February 11, 2002).]

[Kwicherbichen]

I agree RD......

[Eric]

I think there's been lots of R&D on jet drives. It's been done year after year at the drag races by the pump builders and drivers. Not by the manufacturers.
If you want a strong pump, have one of the pro's build one. I don't think it matters all that much which brand pump you start with.
As to the twin smaller pumps vs. one larger pump. Who knows? It'll be interesting to see what happens. I'm a bit skeptical though. Let's see some posted results, not just a shitload of marketing hype.
Eric
[This message has been edited by Eric (edited February 12, 2002).]

[HBjet]

I just curious why Dave from Aggressor hasn't posted. He usually is right on top of this stuff.
Dave, can you fill us in on what happened at the lake last Wed. with the dual pump setup on the Hawaiian?
Thanks
HBjet

[Duane HTP]

Hey, take it easy on Dave. His wife is in the hospital with heart problems. He hasn't been at work a lot the last few days. What Dave needs right now is all our prayers.

[RR1/ 001]

Dave
We are keeping you and your wife in our thoughts and prayers. Hope things work out. I just went through the same thing with my wife spending a lot of time in the big H. Things are fine with us now but I know how it is first hand! Keep your head up!

[Payton]

Any updates?
On the testing and Dave's wife.