intercooler or no intercooler

[dragstr19]

i was talking to somebody at local boat shop today and he told me that a intercooler wouldnt do any good if i was running good gas. he said the only reason to run a intercooler was if your running cheap gas. true or false. thanks for the help. by the way witch intercoolers are the best

[Morg]

Simple logic tells me the cooler the charge the more you get in the cylinder.

[Fiat48]

False.
Alcohol is the best intercooler.
Did you expect me to say anything else? :D
Seriously I have never run an intercooler so the best one I could not help you with.

[Lavey Huffer]

Intercooled will always make more power.It depends on how much you want to spend and how much power you want to make depending if it is an air-to-air or air-to-water .An air-to-water is pretty easy to hook up on a boat and is very effective.
Also there is a point where you will have no other choice but to run better fuel.You can gain a ton of power from an intercooler with gas that would be comprable to no intercooler with race fuel.Spend money on intercooler or spend money on fuel.

[ttmott]

he told me that a intercooler wouldnt do any good if i was running good gas. he said the only reason to run a intercooler was if your running cheap gas. true or false. thanks for the help. by the way witch intercoolers are the best
The guy that told you this is right but his premis is wrong. Two independent issues here but each one affects combustion performance.
"cheap gas" is really not that accurate. Consider a low cylinder pressure engine; you will get less performance from a slow flame front fuel (high octane) than you would with a fast burning fuel like 91 octane. So fuel really needs to be a part of any engine build. Forced inducton can be considered a modification of your static compression for simplicity. Most of today's production engines will perform worst on 93 octane than 91 (exceptions being the production high performance engines that specifically require the higher octane).
Whenever air is compressed quite a bit of energy is absorbed (heat). The higher the pressure the greater amount of heat is entrained. Whenever you have heat the molecules are very active and don't like to be close together (relative density is low). Gas density is less when hot than when cold. For this reason the higher the density the more you can pack into a given area. For an engine the more fuel / air mixture you can pack into a cylinder the bigger the bang and the more HP / Torque. So the primary purpose of an intercooler is to remove the energy from the air that was put in during compression from the turbos or blower.
Now let's say you have high compression and a low octane fuel. Pre-ignition due to the tendency of the fuel to burn with the compression and heat from the engine will be a problem. You can compensate by cooling and/or lowering pressure. Cooling can be done by an intercooler, water injection, or enrichen the fuel mixture. This is what that fellow is talking about but he missed the real point.
If you have the correct fuel for your combination the intercooler removes the charge heat and allows signicantly more air into the engine allowing more fuel to be mixed and thus providing more energy for work production. So if you are running a blown engine and cylinder pressures are relative low ("boost" is not a very accurate basis for cylinder pressure) you may not require an expensive intercooler. On the other hand if you are really packing the cylinders and need a higher density charge to do that you will want an intercooler and a higher octane fuel.
So, the two issues are not related - but they are related.....

[502 JET]

i was talking to somebody at local boat shop today and he told me that a intercooler wouldnt do any good if i was running good gas. he said the only reason to run a intercooler was if your running cheap gas. true or false. thanks for the help. by the way witch intercoolers are the best
As you have it worded above I would say the statement is FALSE.If you are running too much boost and too much timing and low octane fuel no inter cooler will help or do any good.There is no substitute for a proper tune up.
An intercooler will help you make more power by giving you a cooler and denser air charge than you would be getting with out one in any application.With the intercooler you can run more total ignition timing and more boost per avaliable octane thus making more power.The inter cooler can also be used as a crutch to keep you from detonating with lower octane fuel but there is no substitute for the proper octane.
Even when running racing gas the inter cooler would help make more power by lowering the supercharger discharge air temp.Cooler denser air charge = more power.
There are people injecting nitrous to help cool the intake air charge.There are also alcohol/methonol/water injection kits available that act as a chemical intercooler.
In a pleasure boat I would not suggest solely relying on any type of intercooler or subsutiting for the proper octane fuel or running the engine on the ragged edge of detionation.If you are relying intercooler system to keep you from detonating and the system fails you could destroy your engine in a heartbeat.
The best intercooler would be the one thats fits your application and is made up of long lasting materials and is rated for the cfm of air and power levels you are looking to run.
502 JET And thats is just my .02

[superdave013]

at 30 pounds of boost my temps were above 300 degrees above the cooler and just a tad above 100 below it.

[Highlimit9000]

at 30 pounds of boost my temps were above 300 degrees above the cooler and just a tad above 100 below it.
Dave, thats one hell of a drop in a short amount of area. I would say they work very well...

[ghittner]

The cooler the intake charge no matter what combination the better. Heat is the enemy. Less detonation and more complete fuel burn. Intercooler accomplishes this especially on a boat where water is an abundant sorce to cool. The marine environment lends itself to intercooling. The power and complete combution is enhanced by at least 50% with the proper intercooler. Less heat = Higher density of the fuel charge= less detonation = much higher power= highly increased safety margin for your motor. If you have the clearance there is no question.... INTERCOOL!!!

[dragstr19]

thank for the info, im going to order one tomarrow just for insurance. thanks again

[HEAVYBOAT]

at 30 pounds of boost my temps were above 300 degrees above the cooler and just a tad above 100 below it.
Superdave...
what combo/intercooler was this?
Thanks

[Infomaniac]

Hey There HeavyBoat.
There is an easy 100 HP there with that intercooler as long as it has cool water.
And if you already have 800 or more HP it is a real cheap extra 100.

[steveo143]

On our 510" 671 blown @15lbs, injected on alcohol, an intercooler adds 200 hp on desktopdyno. 1200 to 1400hp.

[garret]

It is my understanding that an intercooler is only good for no more than 12lbs of boost.

[HEAVYBOAT]

It is my understanding that an intercooler is only good for no more than 12lbs of boost.
Hey Info... Where's the new vids !! :220v:
Back to the topic..These cores do seem extremely restrictive and Superdaves example of 30psi just blows my mind through these intercoolers. I wish they did a less fin per inch core for higher boost.. I believe mine has 9 fins per inch..
Is Dustin from Whipple still around this forum.. I wonder what his opinion is on boost maximums? I cant get over 12/13psi with my 1471 under the chiller.
Rick

[superdave013]

boost has nothing to do with air flow. 10 pounds of boost on some merc ho whatever is world's different then 10 pounds of boost on Heavy's big cubic inch deal.
I bet my 461" @ 8,800 rpm making 30 pounds was still moving much less air then Heavy's at the same RPM.
What you need to do is hook up a differential pressure gauge across the intercooler. I did it with a 0 - 160" water Magnahielc (sp) gauge. I guess with all this data logging you could run it right to something like that.
Anyway that will tell you your pressure drop across the intercooler core at what ever RPM. If you do it, sneek a thremocouple above and below it too.
Heavy will have to see more pressure drop then I did because he's moving more air through it.
Heavy, freash blowers are happy blowers. I used to re-strip mine myself before every race. Heck you car guys were yours out in the burn out box.
Speaking of that I used to get lots of teflon from the blower on the intercooler core. Might want to keep an eye on that to make sure you're not plugging it up.

[Brian]

Just logged some data with my procharger setup on a short blast of about 25 seconds or so in the boat. Ambient temp was 100 deg F. Motor pulled out to just over 6k RPM, 8.6 psi boost, 129 deg F intake temp. Correlating it to my dyno sheets would put it making about 950 hp in that condition, all on 91 octane, no hint of detonation on the knock sensor. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't be possible without the intercooler!
:boxed:

[Unchained]

Heavy, freash blowers are happy blowers. I used to re-strip mine myself before every race. Heck you car guys wear yours out in the burn out box.
Speaking of that I used to get lots of teflon from the blower on the intercooler core. Might want to keep an eye on that to make sure you're not plugging it up.
So I take it those were a couple of the factors that made you decide to switch to turbos....lol.... :cool: :rollside: :D :D

[Life's Rough]

So I take it those were a couple of the factors that made you decide to switch to turbos....lol.... :cool: :rollside: :D :D
Run A PSI or Large Whipple which both make incredible boost with lower intake temps or run a looser gas set up roots blower, with an intercooler. Bottom line three factors to detonation, it's the equation of boost,timing,and air fuel mixture. The screw chargers will make up the difference of A cooler at all pressures under 15 PSI, after that chill it, Add or reduce fuel,boost,timing and know what you are doing. Myself included noboby on these board has enough info on someboby elses equipment to give anybody accurate tuning info, And if they say they do their really full of you know what!!

[Life's Rough]

So I take it those were a couple of the factors that made you decide to switch to turbos....lol.... :cool: :rollside: :D :D
One reason to switch to Turbos is the ongoing noise shit from Big Brother. They make power and act as great mufflers. Not for me K-Boats or die trying. But to all have good safe fun.
Happy Safe Boating
Pat Eason/K-711

[Unchained]

Run A PSI or Large Whipple which both make incredible boost with lower intake temps or run a looser gas set up roots blower, with an intercooler. Bottom line three factors to detonation, it's the equation of boost,timing,and air fuel mixture. The screw chargers will make up the difference of A cooler at all pressures under 15 PSI, after that chill it, Add or reduce fuel,boost,timing and know what you are doing. Myself included noboby on these board has enough info on someboby elses equipment to give anybody accurate tuning info, And if they say they do their really full of you know what!!
I like the screw blowers a lot but from what I've seen the only way to do it right would be to port inject the fuel after the blower and the intercooler. Trying to get the fuel to distribute correctly after it's gone through the blower and then it has to follow those tunnels under the blower looks like a nightmare. I know a guy in Illinois who had mixture distribution problems and it caused lean cylinders and meltdowns.

[Brian]

...I’ve gave up restripping to find power, and installed a fogger with alky and nitrous.... almost enough to keep up with you turbo guys :cool:
A nitrous setup underneath the intake manifold where nobody can see it... Now that's not very nice at all! :D

[dragstr19]

it just came in and it look cool. when running one of these do you have to run smaller top pulley to compensate pushing the air and fuel threw that tight radiator. thanks for the help

[fullthrottle598]

yes it will help you it cools the charge down i spent time on dyno with and without if you are looking for one i have one