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View Full Version : Why aren't Marine repair shops licensed?



Magnuman
08-10-2004, 01:27 PM
I took my Donzi 18 Classic in for rigging at a local shop in January.
The shop was supposed to have it done by Memorial Day.
Yes, you guessed it's still not done. So I finally had enough and told him to stop work (which was really a joke). He wouldn't let me take my boat until his bills were paid . Needless to say he has since fabricated bills for parts and labor way beyond what he has completed. I have already given him two large payments. I have called the California Consumer Affairs Department and they have told me that Marine repair shops are not licensed as are automotive repair shops are. They said all matters such as this have to be take to civil court.
So now what? Do I have to pay the trumped up bills and hope to get financially reimbursed by a judgement from the courts?
Can he legally hold my boat for ransom?
Pissed off in Kaleefornia!!

ratso
08-10-2004, 01:48 PM
Weren't you given an estimate of the repairs. It is common practice for us to notify the customer if the charges are going to exceed that agreed upon amount. What was their reason for not having the boat ready?

Mandelon
08-10-2004, 01:55 PM
Go down there and get it. Let him chase you for the money. Show up with a camera and take a lot of pictures.
Or get your own lawyer and a judgement of your own, to rescue your vessel.

Keithb87
08-10-2004, 01:58 PM
I don't think that they can hold your property for ransom.... they would have to take you to court for a judgment...

superdave013
08-10-2004, 01:59 PM
Sorry to hear about that. But if you are looking for another shop that does great work I can recommend one down here.
You might want to look into Prime Marine. I just had some wizzy custom work done by them and could not be more pleased.
They do it all from mild to wild. And Mike did a great job of keeping me informed on the progress or any cost adders along the way.
It would be worth the tow for a classic like your donzi.

OGShocker
08-10-2004, 02:20 PM
You live in San Francisco. Slap him silly take his purse and your boat. ;)

topless
08-10-2004, 02:36 PM
A friend had her boat worked on at Newport Boats. When she got it back, she noticed that nothing was done at all. They even claimed that they took it to the lake to test it but it still had leaves from her yard on the back of the trailer. She stopped payment on the check and told them to taker her to court. She has pictures too so I think they are SOL.

Mandelon
08-10-2004, 03:10 PM
Well there you go, pay for it with a check or even a credit card then stop payment or protest the billing. Back it up with lots of pictures.

Dave C
08-10-2004, 03:50 PM
I live close to you.
care to name names?
I know good guys in Fairfield and San Mateo.

Magnuman
08-10-2004, 06:42 PM
I never signed a work order with them.
The company is Marine Unlimited in Santa Rosa.
They used to be behind CP Performance in Rohnert Park
They have since moved from a 1000 sq ft facility behind CP Performance to a 6000 sq ft facility in Santa Rosa and are also selling bass boats.
When they were behind CP Performance they did nice work on 4 of my boats. They were responsible for much of the rigging on my Magnum.
When they moved things went to hell.
They are selling Bass boats and trying to keep up with service work to have cash flow, I assume.
They out sourced some glass work on my hatch to Santa Rosa Boat center which turned out to be a disaster.
Every week I would get a promise that they were working on it and it would be finished soon. Never happened.
The work that they did this year on my Magnum is not quite right and he has broken many promises to come to my residence on Clear Lake to fix it.
It just burns me that someone that I've trusted over the years and paid invoices without question can now try and screw me. I don't understand where some peoples minds are today.
I have been told that if a work order hasn't been signed then my liability is limited. Is this true?
Also, I read that since Marine repair shops are not licensed, they have no rights according to mechanic lien laws.
I also called the Sonoma County Sheriffs department and explained the situation. They responded that if I go down to the shop and he refuses to give me back my property I can call them for a sheriff standown to take the boat.
Dave,
Prime Marine was a shop that I was thinking of talking to.

Dr. Eagle
08-10-2004, 06:49 PM
I'm no lawyer, but it seems that not signing a repair order has some plusses and minuses.
1. Can he hold the boat on a mechanics lien when you never authorized any work in writing? I would think not... but you never know in this screwed up state.
2. Not having a written estimate means you have no baseline price to claim or change manage against.
3. Having not completed the work you verbally understood to be done, you may have a claim against him in small claims court that you could pursue. But the lack of a written work order might be a problem.
If the Sheriff will escort you to pick up your property from the shop, if he tries to collect, let him bring small claims suit against you... I doubt he'd win it.

Magnuman
08-10-2004, 06:55 PM
Unfortanately we are not talking small claims here.
I have already paid him 14K on good faith, and he claiming I owe him more that 18K more.
Can we say bend over and hold onto my ankles! :mad:

powerplay230
08-10-2004, 06:56 PM
Couple of things really bite for the consumer here, hopefully for you Cali laws are different than Fla's. First yes they can hold your boat ransom or at least until they can put a lien on it, called a mechanics lien- something that was put in place to make sure HONEST mechanics weren't stiffed after performing work. Second it is against the law to stop payment on a check for services rendered (or not rendered in this case) same as writing a check on a closed account when they can prove you knew it was closed, I believe here it is a felony low grade one but still. I'm a retailer so have experience from that plus some from when I looked at options when unhappy with work from a certain shop. Also I know here I have almost never been able to get an estimate for the boat. Now the big question I have for the state and big brother is if marine shops don't have to be licensed why do they get some of the same protections as licensed automotive shops??? :confused: Have you tried the approach of threatening every local boater you come in contact with and posting his name with your story on Boating boards such as this, or does a local news station have a "consumer reporter segment" that would get his name in the news the ones here have gotten some remarkable results! Where's his proof of parts replaced, when I have big doubts I tell them produce "MY" original parts or take it off the bill, most rep' shops keeps parts just to keep both sides honest.

Dr. Eagle
08-10-2004, 06:57 PM
Unfortanately we are not talking small claims here.
I have already paid him 14K on good faith, and he claiming I owe him more that 18K more.
Can we say bend over and hold onto my ankles! :mad:
Ouch........ seems an attorney is in order... damn it! I hate it when that happens.

powerplay230
08-10-2004, 07:00 PM
Dave,
Here you only have to sign a work authorization order, you get no estimate. Now if it is the same there and he can't prove he had permission to work on the boat I would think you should have no problem getting it back then he would have to take you to small claims.. Geeesh sorry my other post was so long and I realize state laws may be different.
Good luck,
Rick

Dr. Eagle
08-10-2004, 07:03 PM
Dave,
Here you only have to sign a work authorization order, you get no estimate. Now if it is the same there and he can't prove he had permission to work on the boat I would think you should have no problem getting it back then he would have to take you to small claims.. Geeesh sorry my other post was so long and I realize state laws may be different.
Good luck,
Rick
Pretty sure he needs that work order and an estimate...

powerplay230
08-10-2004, 07:06 PM
:frown: Ouch $32K, well since that shoots down small claims your best bet is to go ahead and talk to an attorney. You might be able to get your boat back without one but will take one to fix the financials. Heck did he add a blower and twin turbos and and for that amount of cash? Sorry forget that part not trying to rub salt into your wounds.

gnarley
08-10-2004, 07:07 PM
I never signed a work order with them.
The company is Marine Unlimited in Santa Rosa.
They used to be behind CP Performance in Rohnert Park.
I know who these guys are and they act as if their SH*T don't stink. I had dealt with them on a few occasions in 2002 and found that the owner (forgot his name) was unreliable. I needed parts and he said he could get them but he didn't call me before the cut off time frame to let me know the parts would be in the next day. I ordered them from somewhere else and he called 3 hours later saying he ordered them. When I told him I called elsewhere because he never let me know he got an attitude and hung up on me.
I have not done business with Marine Unlimited since and would not recommend them to anyone due to the poor customer service.
Go get your boat and tell him to take a hike and you'll see him in court.

powerplay230
08-10-2004, 07:24 PM
Dr EAgle,
Question- who needs the work order and estimate? Shop owner, if he didn't give one I would think the sheriff would put burden of proof of work authorization on the shop, I'm not sure at all just ideas from afar and trying to figure it out. I know stopping payment on a check isn't legal but is with a credit card then contest the charges with your bank for being charged for work not being done?

mbrown2
08-10-2004, 08:11 PM
32K....for an 18ft Donzi.....Heck, DCB probably could have done it for much cheaper than that...

Mandelon
08-10-2004, 08:30 PM
What have they done that they feel justified charging $32,000 dollars????

Magnuman
08-10-2004, 11:03 PM
First off, Writing a check and then cancelling it is not in my cards.
I am a partner in a reputable business and would not want my business ethics ever doubted. It's fun to BS about but not what I can ethically do. Either is putting it on credit and disputing it. I have referred it to my attorney and will take the appropriate legal actions.
Mandelon,
I'll post picts and spec's tomorrow.
mbrown2,
If I could rely on hindsight in my boating endeavors over the past 30 years, I'd own the Queen Mary.
Gnarley,
His name is Brant Behler, and I'm leaning your way.
Thank to all for your input.

Boozer
08-10-2004, 11:17 PM
Tell him if he does not release your boat to you you will report it stolen. He can not hold it for ransom that is illegal. Especially considering you never signed a work order whichw oudl contain a mechanics lien in the small print section. If you had signed the work order and had signed the mechanics lien then he could technically hold it for ransom.
Upon recieving your boat you need to take pictures of it in its current state. Take him to court and sue him. Odds are that you will win.

lucky
08-11-2004, 05:56 AM
broken many promises to come to my residence on Clear Lake to fix it.
John sofolice from unlimited marine just moved up to clear lake - and he is a profesional - I would recomend him as he has been in the bus. since before i was born --- 707- 994 8600- from info-- make sure its johns shop as i believe their is also another named the same --- --
i called that shop when i was going to have my new tanks put in my crusiser - glass- to alumi. and they where asses - i took my boat all the way to lemon cove - 3 d boats - dean's a great glass guy

Dribble
08-11-2004, 07:51 AM
Marine repair shops are not licensed like automotive shops because people do not depend on their boats for transportation or livelyhood. Even though you were clearly ripped off, the facility has a lien based upon possesion per Ca Civil Code Section 3068. You have a couple of choices.
(1) Wait until they file lien sale papers. You file a Declaration of Opposition. A decision is made by Judge after a court hearing.
(2) Pay the rest of the bill and pursue recovery in court or through an attorney.
(3) Check with Sonoma County. Most counties now have mediation services. If you can get them to agree to go to mediation it could save a long court battle.
The written estimate law for auto repair does not apply here but I have seen judges apply the principle in marine cases. The Sherriff has no legal authority to make them release the vehicle as you voluntarily gave them possesion.
Good luck and thanks for the heads up. I was going to order a Place Diverter for my buddys boat from them but now I think we'll go somewhere else.

mbrown2
08-11-2004, 08:13 AM
mbrown2,
If I could rely on hindsight in my boating endeavors over the past 30 years, I'd own the Queen Mary.
LMAO...that was a great response, a response most of boaters could relate to.....I hope you did not take my comment as an Armchair Quarterback sort of quip...I was just blown away by what they were trying to charge you...not commenting on your decision to use them...sounds like they did right by you in the past...Good luck. :)

MsDrmr
08-11-2004, 08:47 AM
this is a bad situation, I am sorry to hear about the bad run of luck. I am with some of the guys, just find out what to do from an attorney, seems not getting something in writting has taught you a very important lesson (not to say a financial lesson). It is unfortunate that not all business owners are as trustworthy as you. Hope all gets worked out for you soon. Keep us informed.

Magnuman
08-11-2004, 09:42 AM
I did retain an attorney the day they didn't let me take the boat out of the shop.
As I stated before the work that they did in the past was timely and I usually was treated fairly. I have seen this type of situation play out with many companies though, they try to expand and are just not capable to do so. In the end they wind up destroying relationships that they worked hard to build.

Magnuman
08-11-2004, 10:45 AM
This is how the boat was delivered to them in January.
Although without my consent or knowledge they thought confetti in the engine compartment would look good. I gave them the boat with a new white gelcoated engine compartment. It has since been brought back to all white.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/710Donzi_January-med.jpg

Magnuman
08-11-2004, 10:49 AM
Here is a custom dash that I designed on cad and they had manufactured for me.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/710Donzi_Dash-med.jpg

Magnuman
08-11-2004, 10:52 AM
Bow after paint. Which I paid for separately. Not a part of their invoicing.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/710Donzi_Bow-med.jpg

Magnuman
08-11-2004, 10:55 AM
Engine Shot.
I had the engine built by others and gave it to them in January.
I also contracted with TPC to build the carbs. They did a great job.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/710Donzi_Engine-med.jpg

Magnuman
08-11-2004, 10:57 AM
Transom still not complete.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/710Donzi_Transom-med.JPG

Magnuman
08-11-2004, 11:01 AM
The hatch which I designed on cad and then was built wrong.
I have since paid to correct the mistakes and it has been redone to fit.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/710Donzi_Hatch-med.JPG

Magnuman
08-11-2004, 11:04 AM
When it all done I'll have a beautiful boat, but it kills me that I missed an entire season. :mad:

topless
08-11-2004, 11:12 AM
Thats the finest looking red X I've seen in a long time.

Keithb87
08-11-2004, 11:16 AM
Thats the finest looking red X I've seen in a long time.
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Magnuman
08-11-2004, 11:17 AM
Are they coming up red x's?
They all come through on my screen.

Keithb87
08-11-2004, 11:19 AM
Are they coming up red x's?
They all come through on my screen.
All X's
:idea:

topless
08-11-2004, 11:29 AM
Are they coming up red x's?
They all come through on my screen.
I wanna see them are they in the image center?

Keithb87
08-11-2004, 11:33 AM
That's one purty boat there fella.... :D

lucky
08-11-2004, 11:54 AM
must have been begining of summer headed toward sAnta rosa yea i double took it

Magnuman
08-11-2004, 12:04 PM
Photo problem fixed.

topless
08-11-2004, 12:13 PM
Photo problem fixed.
Thanks, nice boat by the way :cool:

mbrown2
08-11-2004, 01:31 PM
What a beautiful boat...good luck on the build up...that seems like a really nice custom project.