Hot Rod 460

[Kamakazi Ken]

Looking for a book Called "How To Hot Rod A Big Block Ford" Can't find it on Amazon, any help, or is their such a book. I know they have one for a Chevy and SB Fords.

[Bubbledeck2]

Ken I do believe there is a book like that. Seems I've seen it advertised in Hot Rod or Car Craft magazine before. You might also try one of your local major book stores and if they don't have it I'm sure if it's available they'll order it for you.
Let me know where you find it, I want one too :-)

[058]

Closest I have found to what you want is "How to rebuild your Ford V8-351C-M 400-429-460" by Tom Monroe [HP books] lots of useful info there but very little on modifications.

[oldphart]

The best one I know of is FORD PERFORMANCE by Pat Ganahl. published by cartech lots of performance & building info on both the 385 and FE series big blocks

[Kamakazi Ken]

Thanks for the replies, I'll check them out. Now I have the water in the oil issue that I've see other posts talk about so i'll be working on that this week.
Ken

[Brendella]

KKen if you are asking for the books to try and do it yourself then don't. I bought the books and studied my ass off then did the engine assembly. just burned some head gaskets again, but this time it cost an oil pump and some main bearings. so if I were in your shoes att this moment I would just take it to a shop that you feel comfortable with the job and pricing.
Brendella

[Kamakazi Ken]

Thanks for the tip.
But, I live in the sticks. And I just can't help myself just got to do it myself.
K.K.

[mister460]

Hey Ken, just read ALL the books you can find on performance. Regardless of make. Also try and find a book about cylinder heads. That's where alot of power is made. But any book will help you to understand how to make power;from lawn mowers to Merlin V-12's!

[Squirtcha?]

Here's another option. I'm putting together a motor this winter using a stock BBF 460 short block. Basically I'm going to install a different camshaft, reworked heads, adjustable roller rocker arms/studs/guideplates, intake manifold/carb and headers. You still have to install the oil pump and swap everything off your old block but the bottom end is all set up. I'm only building it to about 450-500 horse so the stock bottom end will handle it fine. I've already swapped all the other stuff out in the past, so it shouldn't be a problem. Short blocks are pretty reasonably priced too.

[Bubbledeck2]

Squirtcha? I have plans and ambitions to do pretty much what you have done. What have you bolted on yours and how does it work?

[sleekcrafter]

Check out Drew marine engines, 460's-540's they make killer power and torque

[Squirtcha?]

Hey Bubbledeck2. I haven't started it yet. I'm just in the process of ordering all the goodies. What I was referring to was work I'd done in the past which included, R&R the intake and carb a couple times. R&R the heads. R&R the headers etc. The point I was trying to make is this. I'm not a motor guy, but I'm learning as I go. All the above stuff is pretty simple lefty loosie righty tighty stuff and I had no trouble. If I get the bottom end and it's all set up clearance wise, I'm confident that I can handle the rest. Probably the most difficult part will be making sure that the valvetrain is set up correctly. I'm very anxious to get going on it.

[Bubbledeck2]

Squirtcha? I'm with you on not being a motor guy, I know just enough to get myself in trouble heh.
Anyways, I got a stock 460 (original 1976 motor) that seems tight and runs good, so I was gonna just leave the bottom end alone, put some heads, cam, intake, and carb on. I may pull some bearing caps just to check things, but I really don't want to do the bottom end right now unless I have to. I've heard that 460s have good bottom ends, so I'm hoping it will hold with the new stuff.
I'll gladly listen to anyone's input on this!
I know headers are better, but I think I heard that logs are OK up to about 500HP.
This is gonna be a winter project, so I have time to think about it and get ideas.

[Squirtcha?]

The only thing that I can speak to regarding headers is this: A buddy of mine runs a 455 Olds in an old SleekCraft. He just put a set of headers on it and you can really tell the difference. We haven't gps's before or since but I'd say he picked up at least 5 mph without doing any other mods. Can't say if everyone has the same type gains but it sure worked for him. His motor, with the exception of an Edelbrock (something or other) intake, is otherwise stock. They sure look good too.

[Kamakazi Ken]

B.Deck & Squirt. Thanks for the input, been out of town. B.Deck It sounds like you have the same poject lined up this winter as I have planned, but I would also like to do a complete repaint, as for headers I would like to have them but the Boat Cop population is growing here in Colorado as elseware, a frend on a front range lake was busted a couple of weeks ago.

[Bubbledeck2]

KamikaziKen did you ever find that book? I need to find one too.
I would like to start my little project as soon as the season is over, so I've started to seriously look for some heads now as that will probably be the biggy and hardest to find on a budget.
Squirtcha? what cam are you gonna run? I have no idea where to start there. I think I'll pull the motor when I do this so I can paint it and put a big oil pan on. Also I'd thought when I'm done I'd like to dyno the thing so I know exactly where I'm at. I'm guessing here, but I'd think you'd have to know where your motor is making power so you know what you need to do with your pump.
KK and Squirtcha? keep me posted on your progress

[Squirtcha?]

Comp Cams XM270H. Some will say this is pretty tame but I think I'm going to stick with it just the same. 226 in 236 ex duration @ .050 and .544 in .547 ex lift. Matched springs, lifters, and timing set. I've already found my dove heads but still need to do the porting and spring prep. Nice thing about the spring set. It works for a whole page of cam shafts. If the one I pick doesn't work as well as I like, I can just go bigger without changing the springs. I have a set of junk heads to practice the porting on. I figure that by the time I finish playing with 8 ports I should have some kinda technique down. I'm debating if I should replace the stock size valves with some larger stainless steels. According to desktop dyno it makes a pretty big difference. Gotta draw the money line somewhere though. Keep me updated fellas, and I'll do the same.

[Bubbledeck2]

Squirtcha? how much difference does it say the bigger valves give you? Do you have a HP estimate with your proposed set up?
If ya don't mind me asking, what did you give for the heads?

[Squirtcha?]

Between 30 and 40 horsepower without changing anything else on the setup. Just the valve sizes. I paid $150.00 for the set. They came with a fresh vavle job but no porting. Everything (springs, valves, etc) is stock on them. I'll have to disassemble them to do the port work, of course, and it's recommended that a fresh valve job follows the porting. They also will need to be fitted with the larger than stock double springs for the new cam. Dare I spend the additional $200 for the larger valves and ? $$$ for the machine work to add them? The heads are actually ready to bolt on if I didn't want to hog em out, or change the springs. I think it was a pretty good deal on em though. Any thoughts Ford guys?

[Squirtcha?]

Here's a link to my desktop dyno sheet. I'm not going crazy here. Just trying to eek a little more speed out of her while maintaining the pretty incredible reliability that I've enjoyed since I've bought her. Shooting for around 460 horse. Keep in mind the larger valves would put me close 500. That'd be fun eh?
http://www.homestead.com/jetboat/files/dyno__s_1.jpg

[058]

Its been reported that just by knocking the lumps outta the ex. ports is worth 15 HP, thats cheap horsepower. It doesn't cost anything but a little time and effort. The heads respond well to a 3 or 5 angle valve job, a little unshrouding in the chambers and some bowl work even if you don't go with the bigger valves. For low budget heads and stock size valves take the seat out as far as practial and back cut the intake and the exhaust valves with about a 22deg back cut. This helps low lift flow.

[Bubbledeck2]

Squirtcha? thanx for the info and the link to that dyno sheet. Sounds to me like you got a pretty good deal on those heads!
058 do you have any idea what a set of DOOE-R heads are worth? They have been machined .020, would I have to machine my intake to match? Also would they match up to the logs I'm using now on my stock 460 heads?
Thanx

[Hawaiian]

My dooe-r heads were very mis matched with the standard exhaust logs just put headers on and it was a world of difference. Ran cooler and more responsive.

[Bubbledeck2]

Hawaaian I was afraid of that. Headers equal more $$$. Also as much as I like the looks of headers and knowing their performance value, I still like the cooool logs. Jury is still out though.
Anyone have any comparisons between Edelbrock aluminum heads and the DOOE-R heads?

[Squirtcha?]

Here is a link to some interesting actual flow bench numbers for Cobra Jet alumninum vs. CJ iron vs. Edelbrock vs. stock ported etc etc. According to these numbers the Edelbrock aluminums flow almost as good as the ported CJs. Most people in the know say that the additional flow doesn't help much when you're only running 5000-5500 rpm though. If that's the case then I can't see spending $1700.00 for heads with more flow than I'll ever need (even though they look cool as hell).

[Squirtcha?]

Whoops, forgot the link.
http://www.walt-n-anne.com/Ranchero/385heads.htm

[Bubbledeck2]

Squirtcha? thanx for that link! that was exactly what I was looking for.
You're probably right about not needing gobs of flow at <5500rpm. Anyone with knowledge of that want to respond? In particular, ported D0VE heads vs ported or unported DOOE R heads?

[058]

Bubbledeck, the iron CJ heads are worth about $400-500.00 as the Mustang/Torino guys love 'em for their restorations. As for the D0VE-C heads, they will work good for jetboat application with an upper rpm limit of about 5500 rpms but they need help, lots of help. Such as a lot of port work in the exhaust not just knocking the smog lump out but raising the roof of the port and smoothing out all the strange curves and rises in the port itself. The bowl is way too shallow and must be deepened for best results. Larger valves will need to be installed too. The biggest valve that is effective is the 2.19" intake and the 1.74" exhaust. Don't bother with a 2.24" intake as the small port runner won't support that size of valve, it won't hurt it but the extra machine work to make it fit is a waste.

[Bubbledeck2]

058 thanx for the reply!
would the DOOE-R heads need alot of work as well, or would you pretty much be able to bolt those on and run 'em?
I'm looking at probably 5500 rpm or less, and I'm wanting the best for the least. I know there's gotta be a trade off there between $ and performance and I'm looking for middle ground. Any suggestions?

[058]

Best for least....Huummmm. I'd go with the iron CJs and some minor exhaust port work as there is still a smog lump in those too. Don't do anything to the intakes such as smooth the port walls or anything like that except maybe blend the sharp edges in the intake bowl only. Be sure to get an intake that will match the CJ ports.

[mister460]

The only real pros to alu heads is they're easier to port and they dissipate heat faster. Other than that they just look pretty. Unless you're running really high compression or a blower you don't need them. When I port a set of DOVE, C9VE, D0OE, or C8VE's I get 305 cfm @.550 lift. And there's still more to port. I'll upload the flow test graphs for anyone that wants them. Intake and exhaust. You HAVE to remove the thermactor knob in the exhaust. I've experienced over 25 hp gains with BB Ford heads just doing basic exhaust porting. Don't bothr with bigger valves unless you want to turn high revs. Not really worth the expense under 600 hp. Yes, you can build a BBF to make over 600hp with stock size valves. Hey Squirtcha, I have my head flow charts loaded into Dyno2000. Want me to try and send it to you to try out on some combos?

[Squirtcha?]

Yeah that'd be great! I've got dyno 2000 too. If you want just send me the build file with the numbers your talking about and I can just plug it into my dyno program. If you're the one who sent me the email that sounded like a heck of an idea too. I would take all the help I could get. I've been studying for a while but there's no substitution for someone that's actually done it.
Thanks

[blowbye]

Hawaiian, did you look into matching your logs with the larger exhaust port on the DOOE-r heads? I guess the question is does anyone know the amount of port matching that can be done to the logs before you ruin the header. My CVX-20 still has the original Pak-a-jet exhaust logs. A real mis-match with the above heads. Thanks.

[Bubbledeck2]

mister460 I'd like to see those flow charts please.
Post them here or e mail me billyr@pacbell.net
thanx

[mister460]

Will do guys! Hope you're as impressed as I was!

[spectras only]

Hi Andrew,did you make it up to your folks in Bellingham.I was wondering if I missed your call?

[mister460]

Ya Attila, I came up for a few days but I started partying with friends and didn't really stop till a few hours before I had to go back. I totally forgot to give you a ring. But I'll be coming up again before too long and I just won't drink as much and maybe I'll remember! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif