Wrong or right?

[Seadog]

Thought I would get a discussion going on here.
ABC news this AM, 21 year old girl and her 17 year old friend, driving on the interstate in South(?) Carolina was speeding in her Pathfinder. They tried to pull her over and she sped up, doing well over 100 and getting more erratic as she headed north, whipping in and around vehicles, getting into the meridian, etc. After she made it into Georgia, the Georgia HP decided to take her out. They did the spin tap and she went into trees, killing both of them. The parents are outraged at the 'murder' of their children.
My take: The trooper should be discipline for violating policy. The state rules state that it should be done at low speeds and in a safe location. Otherwise, it is a pity, but if you do something stupid, you accept the consequences. If the parents want to bitch, then work at finding a solution that will allow the police to temporary disable cars that are eluding them. It wouldn't be too hard to add a receiver that would have the computer slowly shut down the car if a directed beam transmission is aimed at it.

[JustMVG]

Georgia HP made a bad call and the parents will have alot of calls today unfortunately from legal reps, looking to make a name for themselves and on and on, but we still don't know who authorized the manuever, or was the officer in Rogue mode, was it race related, so many questions and then there will be all the wondering why she fled, what was her reason/reasoning, the B A L test and or Drug Screening will give us a better idea of what was going on , but they still shouldn't have lost their lives either. Bad move either way.
MVG

[HighRoller]

Funny. The parents are "outraged, but not that their dumbass kid was endangering lives at 100mph. If my Mom saw me in a high speed pursuit, she'd hop in her car and pull up next to me at 100mph to slap me in the face and tell me to slow the F$%K down! WTF is wrong with parents these days? Their daughter was trying to commit murder by driving an SUV at 100mph!

[HighRoller]

Mike, I disagree. I think the HP should use any force available to prevent dangerous people from hurting innocent drivers. If the offenders get dead, so be it. Better than that dumb bitch running over a mini-van full of kids on their way to school.

[gramps]

I'm with HighRoller on this one............why in the hell let any idiot that wants to try to avoid getting a ticket put the lives of innocent people at risk?

[Jbb]

Georgia HP made a bad call and the parents will have alot of calls today unfortunately from legal reps, looking to make a name for themselves and on and on, but we still don't know who authorized the manuever, or was the officer in Rogue mode, was it race related, so many questions and then there will be all the wondering why she fled, what was her reason/reasoning, the B A L test and or Drug Screening will give us a better idea of what was going on , but they still shouldn't have lost their lives either. Bad move either way.
MVG
Bad call...?....The bad call was made by the girl driving the car,breaking the law...and endangering the lives of everyone else on the road...Murder...I dont think so....would it have been any better if she plowed into another car full of innocent LAW abiding people..and killed them?
I feel sorry for the girls parents ...but she chose her own demise...

[HighRoller]

I decided this point of view after watching the LAPD follow a guy at 7mph over the grapevine onto hwy99. He stopped next to a minivan..he could have had a gun and kidnapped them. But he kept going luckily. If an Ahole wants to run , I want the cops to take him out ASAP! I saw a guy stop at a crosswalk and wait for pedestrians once while the cops waited behind him with lights flashing! I was expecting him to stop for gas next while the cops waited for him to get some smokes and a corn dog before resuming the "chase". The pussies of the impotent LAPD waited for this scumbag to run out of gas. The LAPD and CHP need to hire some ex-NASCAR drivers to team up with NAVY SEALS so they can take these guys out one way or another.

[Backtanner]

Man, all you guys saying it was the girl's fault are so full of it............common sense that is. Too bad it doesn't work in today's world.

[HavasuDreamin']

That is just a bad situation all the way around. There has to be a better way with todays technology. Did the girls do something stupid? Yes. Did the put innocent people in harms way? Yes. Did they deserve to die? Probably not.
With all the technology out there, this could have been avoided.
HD

[Nubbs]

That's a terrible situation and I feel for the families involved. However, the driver had the opportunity to pull over and chose not to pull over.

[beer hunter]

The parents are outraged at the 'murder' of their children.
I wonder if these same parents would be just as outraged if their daughter was killed by some lunatic driver "doing well over 100 and getting more erratic, whipping in and around vehicles, getting into the meridian, etc" while the HP did nothing to stop them?
Folks, you can't have it both ways, I think the HP made the right decision given the information provided, all though I'm sure they're not happy with what happened to the girls.
Very tragic! :(

[Desert Rat]

I look at it this way, how the hell does the LEO know what is going on in the drivers head or why the hell they are running from the cops at high speeds in the first place? Their job (LE) is to protect the public and if these people want to endanger the public it is LE's job to stop that to best of their ability with any means available. Spin out at 100+, probably a bad idea but on the other hand letting these A'holes cruise around at all speeds for hours on end is sending the WRONG message to all the idiots that want to get on TV along with the possibility of taking out innocent people. I'm sure the state/city will pay BIG time for this along with possible criminal charges against the officer. In today’s sue happy society of it's always somebody else's fault I wonder why you would want to take all the BS and be a Cop. I know it's a calling to a lot of officers but they get no backing from their management, the liberal media or a lot of the public. These guys make what is perceived to be a mistake and the Friggen ACLU is all over them! They are human.
Support your local Sherriff!!
Rant out!!
Rant out

[572Daytona]

For all the PD knew they could have been terrorists with an SUV loaded with explosives. Obviously the driver was driving too fast for conditions if they couldn't control the car after being tapped in the rear end. Were they even wearing seat belts? Unlike on the West Coast, high speed chases around here aren't spectator sports meant to last as long as possible for the delight of the media.

[Kokopelli]

My take: The trooper should be discipline for violating policy. The state rules state that it shold be done at low speeds and in a safe location.
Don't confuse the PIT manuever (low speed ramming) with "taking them out" or ramming at high speeds. I know from personal experience (teaching pursuit driving in the south) that they do things differently then they do in California or even Oklahoma. They consider that type of driving a serious threat to public safety, and use deadly force to stop it.
I don't know the specifics of this case, but it sounds like that (deadly force/ramming at high speeds) was their decision.

[HighRoller]

Exactly. Would a police officer use deadly force to stop a driver from running over a bus stop full of kids? YEAH! So why not stop a crazy driver from possibly doing the same thing? And no, he didn't know it wasn't an arab behind the wheel hell bent on blowing up something with a car bomb! Clue to driver: Easy way to prevent yourself from getting rammed and killed-PULL THE FUKK OVER!

[beer hunter]

Spin out at 100+, probably a bad idea
Was the speed at which the HP spun this vehicle even stated?........may it was only 40mph.

[HighRoller]

Not that it matters...as long as the offender is off the road I don't care. If my kids and wife are still on the road and the offender is in a crumpled mess on the side of the road you expect me to have sympathy? Too bad, so sad. We all gotta live with our choices. Maybe if more of these Aholes realized they would get taken out they wouldn't pull this crap. I think a sniper in the patrol car should double tap the driver in the head whenever they aren't around another vehicle. BAM! No more car chases.

[JustMVG]

Now i have not heard or seen any news on this but common sense would tell me that you could get a pd car in front and do a box type maneuver or try to pin her up against a guard rail if there is one available, remember according to the news this chase was handed off to another agency which apparently has a different point of view on how to handle a situation like this, but if your a trooper in that area and you do the PIT to the vehicle at over the prescribed speed according to the report, then you should be reprimanded, and yes the trooper could have had a million things running thru his adreneline filled drive, and just lost his/her head for a second, the girl was running for a reason and we'll find out why as i posted before, still no reason for two kids to die but it will all be ironed out at some point, hope it isn't something stupid that made her and her friend pay the ultimate price for stupidity on their part. MVG

[MagicMtnDan]

What part of flashing lights in the rearview mirror didn't these girls understand? Clearly, they were at fault. :o
What if they weren't girls but 28 year olds from Saudi Arabia and their car was packed with explosives? Would people be complaining then? Of course the lawyers would be lining up to sue the state but they'll sue anyone even dead people if there's potential for money. :eat:
http://retards.org/photography/dimage/photographs/2002/05/14/20020514_213510-800.jpg

[Charley]

Sorry,
Situation sux period, but
If the Cops lights/siren were on, and if they were goin 100 mph they got tapped for a reason/// It sux but would you be ok to have those same kids strike an opposing car with yer wife and kid in it killing them? NO... they were breaking the law and the Tap was justified from what I see.... the consequences are sad but ultimately the Kids are to blame.

[HighRoller]

It was obviously white kid SUV profiling.

[LHC30Victory]

A lot has been said that I both agree with and do not. A PIT maneuver at anything over 30-35mph is asking for trouble for both the bad guy and the contact car. If they were trying to "take them out" there must have been a good reason for it, i.e. traffic conditions, upcoming area (schools, shopping center etc) or other behavior that caused the PD to react like that.
Some of the tactics suggested earlier in this thread are just unsafe for the officers. Generally, backing off after a helicopter is on scene is the best way to go.
I agree that people who run MUST be stopped, but there are sometimes that letting them go is the right thing. I have seen crazy drivers return to "better" driving when the PD cars stop chasing them and I have seen them continue on - alone - to kill innocent people a few miles later. :mad:
It is very sad that the girls lost their lives. Perhaps more so for the passenger who may not have had anything to do with whether the car stopped or not. I hope more people talk about making correct choices when faced with life's options especially when it comes to taking responsibility for one's own actions.
God bless all involved that they may find peace.

[Captain Dan]

They were traveling at a high rate of speed and were crossing all lanes, driving on the shoulder and driving erratically, being a danger to the public - they needed to be stopped.
It is unfortunate that it ended in death, but it was brought on by the victim(s), at least the driver. I feel more sad for the passenger who had no choice in the matter.
If you pull a gun on a cop, expect to be shot. If you engage in a pursuit, expect to be run off the road.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Simple, don't run from the police.

[manuel]

In the paper it said the father was a "retired law enforcement official" and that he supported the actions taken to stop his daughter from harming others,
It didn't mention anything about outrage, :confused:

[Tremor Therapy]

Come on bleeding hearts...get the fock over it. It is a very tragic situation, but when the flashing lights come on, you stop....period, end of discussion.
So lets review her situation:
1) she was the driver of the car, and she decided not to stop for the police
2) she decided to speed up, and create a potential lethal environment for innocent people
3) her decision influenced LE to make the decision that her bad decisions were becoming a threat to public safety
She made all of the decisions, and LE was enforcing the law. So lets review LE's choices:
1) If LE begins the chase, but because of the "dangerous" situation stops the chase, why didn't they do anything to stop this from happening?
2) If LE begins the chase, but because of the "dangerous" situation stops the chase, and her driving kills or injures someone....LE is focked because they didn't do their job.
3) If LE continues the chase, and LE was to hurt someone, they are over zealous, and need re-think their policies, need to be reprimanded, and sued.
4) If they continue the chase, and the driver is killed like in this instance, they are over zealous, should have done something else, need to re-think their policies, need to be reprimanded, and they get sued.
Hmmm, so in your bleeding heart world, they either need to let all high speed perp's go, hope the perp's pull over in a low speed chase, or continue to try some kind of "trapping" manuever, continually putting LE and others in harms way until they get the perp's to pull over safely.
It must be nice to sit back in your world and blame LE for this. I have friends in LE, and I respect the hell out of them, and what it is they try and do for us. My dad taught me, and I am teaching my kids.......you don't run from the guys with the clubs, the guns, the badge, and the law to back them up. When the lights come on, find a safe spot to pull over, and we'll resolve the situation at that time!

[572Daytona]

All I know is that I feel good about living in Georgia knowing that LE will do whatever they can to protect law abiding citizens.

[MsDrmr]

Its unfortunate that the act of both parties caused two lives, however, it may have been worse, a young infant may have died because of the teens careless behavior. I can appreciate that the parents are upset, however we live in a society that seems no-one has to take accountability for their own behavior. Now the parents are gonna blame the chp instead of looking at the actions that may have been necessary to save other innocent lives.
It is sad that both teens died, such as the price of immaturity.

[Ducatista]

What a shame, one bad decision on the drivers part leads to one terrible outcome. I can't comment on the officers actions because I don't know the facts, but as a citizen I expect them to protect us. If they were within policy guidelines, they did their job and protected the public. If the officers were excessive in their actions, they are partially at fault for the tragic ending. It will all shake out in the investigation. Bottom line, IMO, is the stupidity of the driver set the whole event in motion. :frown:

[repo man]

mabe if a few people get killed running from the police people will think twice before running in the first place :cry:

[LHC30Victory]

mabe if a few people get killed running from the police people will think twice before running in the first place :cry:
Perhaps that is wishful and naieve thinking because the F&#^*ng Lawyers will always get involved and reinforce the feelings of those who cannont or will not accept their responsibility by forcing lawsuits and subsequent change.
BTW I have an outdated ALUMINUM flashlight I cannot use anymore. Any takers? It only has three dents in it :D

[rrrr]

Back in 1974, I was sitting in a parking lot with a bunch of friends on a Saturday night. One of my buddies peeled out of the lot. He was the only one there that didn't see the squad car across the street. So the cop took off after him. Me and a friend decided we would follow and drive by the pulled over car and laugh at our friend the dumbazz.
We didn't see his car when we pulled out. Went over a small hill, and saw the cop car lights about a quarter mile away at the next traffic light. When we pulled up to the intersection, it was a scene from h#ll. My friend had run a red light at 70 MPH and crashed into a Lincoln Town Car. He was alive, but unconscious. I ran over to the Lincoln. A couple in their 70's occupied the car; both were dead.
We had to tear the door off my friend's car to get him out. The ambulance took him to the hospital, and we followed. I was in the ER talking to his parents when a cop informed them that their son had killed two people. They almost collapsed from shock.
So a guy that was good looking, popular, great running back, and had a nice family threw it all away. He was sent to a juvenile facility for years. I never saw him again.
I think the cops did the right thing.

[Seadog]

I did not see the interview with the father, so the outrage could have been another parent, or ad-libing by the 'unbiased' reporting.
As far as the decision to terminate the pursuit, my understanding is that her driving was getting more and more erratic and someone made the call. I did see a copy of the state regulation on pursuits and it does appear that the rules say don't do it that way. It was a judgement call that did not have a happy ending. I worry more about the trooper than the 'victims', because he has to live with what happened.
It may be that this will cause these states to develop better training and techniques on pusuit termination. The last thing I would like to see is some ofthe crappy anti-pursuit regulations that tie the police hands.
Can you see the public's reaction if terrorist blew up something. Analysis shows that a HP tried to pulled them over, but they sped away and the HP was not allowed to pusue. :220v:

[havalen]

We owe alot of the problem to the media if they kept it off tv by making tv stars out of the jerks i think a lot of it would stop. blinkinglights behind you stop and hope the courts are on your side if you did nothing wrong. ;)

[Essex502]

The cop did what was required to stop the felon. 'Cause at that point she probably was a felon. 'Nuff said. Sad to see happen but shoulda' been brighter than to run from the Police.
I won't lose any sleep over it. The only problem is that the cop is going to be second guessed by every A$$hole around. "You shoulda' done this" or "You shoulda' done that"...blah, blah, blah...he made a decision and it's done. I hope his department backs him up - unlike the LAPD not backing their officers who taught a running felon to pull over when told to.

[AzDon]

Yeah, A couple of little girls should stop late at night whenever they see a red light behind them?! Have you guys never heard of Carl Chessman (the redlight murder/rapist)? Did you never read about the Barstow-area CHP officer that raped and murdered a woman he had stopped and then tried to get the ballistics re-machined on his service piece?
Certainly, I would teach my son to pull over and take his punishment. As for girls, the issue of surrender is a little more complex, because not everybody with cop equipment is a good guy!

[Desert Rat]

Yeah, A couple of little girls should stop late at night whenever they see a red light behind them?! Have you guys never heard of Carl Chessman (the redlight murder/rapist)? Did you never read about the Barstow-area CHP officer that raped and murdered a woman he had stopped and then tried to get the ballistics re-machined on his service piece?
Certainly, I would teach my son to pull over and take his punishment. As for girls, the issue of surrender is a little more complex, because not everybody with cop equipment is a good guy!
Jesus you have a f'ed up spin on everything don't you...If they wanted to wait for a "safe" place to pull over because you can count 2 people that were either bad cops or impersonated one they didn't have to do 100+ to get there!!!!!!

[Jbb]

Yeah, A couple of little girls should stop late at night whenever they see a red light behind them?! Have you guys never heard of Carl Chessman (the redlight murder/rapist)? Did you never read about the Barstow-area CHP officer that raped and murdered a woman he had stopped and then tried to get the ballistics re-machined on his service piece?
Certainly, I would teach my son to pull over and take his punishment. As for girls, the issue of surrender is a little more complex, because not everybody with cop equipment is a good guy!
I would think by the time she crossed the state line and saw ...oh I dont know 20 cops behind her...she might figure out they were for real...

[572Daytona]

Jesus you have a f'ed up spin on everything don't you...If they wanted to wait for a "safe" place to pull over because you can count 2 people that were either bad cops or impersonated one they didn't have to do 100+ to get there!!!!!!
lol...and it is much safer driving to another state than the one you live in. They should have driven to Arizona instead, it sounds like AZDon would have taken them in.

[gigamurph]

1. I believe that the police acted accordingly to the situation that was forced upon them by the driver. Don't believe that the officers set out to kill. Rather it have killed nobody; but better two than 8 or 10 or how many others.
2. I think the families are reacting to their loss with alot of anger and pain. Understandable. They are human afterall. Never been there; hope me and mine never are.
3. Don't judge the LAPD too harshly HR. I know a few officers fromn the LAPD and believe me, a majority of them, a great majority, don't like the policies they're saddled with by the "politicians" of LA anymore than you or I.
4. ......and last but not least, stupid or not; this was a sad, sad waste of young lives ended before they really started. Thank God that the officers prevented others from joining them on there short journey.

[JustMVG]

Gig very well put and too bad for the loss of life, i've thought about this all day wondering what was going thru the kids mind, but i actually have more hurt and compassion for the cop who did what he felt he had to do, and there was an unfortunate end to this, hope he gets the counseling that he'll probably need considering there were kids involved. And i haven't seen the story on the airwaves yet but if the parents are crying and start to try and blame the PD for doing their job i'll be screaming at them , pretty stupid of me to yell at a tv, anyway, this better not end up as a lawsuit because then i will firmly believe that there is no justice in this world.
Mike VG

[Tremor Therapy]

Yeah, A couple of little girls should stop late at night whenever they see a red light behind them?! Have you guys never heard of Carl Chessman (the redlight murder/rapist)? Did you never read about the Barstow-area CHP officer that raped and murdered a woman he had stopped and then tried to get the ballistics re-machined on his service piece?
Certainly, I would teach my son to pull over and take his punishment. As for girls, the issue of surrender is a little more complex, because not everybody with cop equipment is a good guy!
Notice that my reply stated "and find a safe spot to pull over." So let me guess, you are going to base all of your thoughts and decisions on the "worse case possible" scenario, rather than the 99.9999999% of cases? I hope not, but talk about spinning.....Geez!
I mean come on Don, how many times do people get stopped every freakin day as compared to the 2 cases you are reciting? When are people going to stand up and just say....you are responsible for your actions! She ran, she endangered the public, and LE ended the situation. Agree with their methods or not, she made all of the decisions.....up to and including the one that ended in tragedy! All of this would have been avoided if she would have just STOPPED!

[JustMVG]

So true So true sad but so true. Maybe her foot was super glued to the accelrator and there was no way to brake........ RIIIIIGHT!!!! :idea:
MVG

[Seadog]

I've seen azdon post some stupid things, but that does top most of them. Maybe she was a liberal try to flee to Canada. That would make as much sense as thinking a bunch of marked police cars, in daylight, on a busy interstate, was a guy imitating a policeman. :hammerhea

[little rowe boat]

I wish LE could be more aggresive here in Cali.They broke the law and then suffered the consequences.

[JustMVG]

Here is the story ,
SAVANNAH, Ga. - A police chase that reached speeds of 110 mph turned deadly when state troopers trying to stop the fleeing vehicle rammed it off the highway, killing the driver and her 17-year-old passenger.
Authorities defended the trooper who steered his patrol car's front bumper into the fleeing vehicle behind its rear wheels, causing the vehicle to spin off the highway and strike a tree.
"The trooper executed his training. He acted properly," said State Patrol spokesman Larry Schnall. "It was a long, dangerous chase and we felt we needed to stop it before some innocent bystander got killed."
The chase began in South Carolina on Tuesday and spanned 66 miles into coastal Georgia on Interstate 95.
The driver, Katie Sharp, 21, of Holly Hill, Fla., started fleeing when police tried to stop her for speeding at 86 mph in a 70 mph zone, sheriff's Capt. Kent Tisdale said.
"As soon as she saw them, she just stomped on it. That's a good indicator that something's wrong," he said. "When we got into Georgia, she was swerving back and forth across all three lanes, very dangerous."
The Georgia State Patrol took up the chase when the speeding Nissan Pathfinder crossed the state line near Savannah.
Sharp and her passenger, Garrett Gabe, 17, of Pennsylvania, died instantly.
Sharp's father, Charlie Sharp, said his daughter had a suspended license, but he doesn't believe she was in any other trouble.
The former police officer said he doesn't blame authorities for his daughter's death. "I have to believe they did everything they did in the right way," he said.
Mike VG

[vdrivenman]

There are no winners in this situtation. Every LO knows the possibility of the outcome in a situtation like this.Now he has to live with his actions ! being right doesn't make it easy !
If there was ONE thing that i impressed upon our sons when they started driving was NOT to run from the police. it is a no win situtation ! you up the antie and your going to loose.
at the least you may be the rap, but you won't be the ride !
AZ DON guess she could not find a proper place to pull over in a 66 mile span!
your a prick !!!