Guys, I Think I've Solved My Fuel Pump Prob's

[LakesOnly]

CBBB was an absolute blast and the only thing that could have made it better for me would have been not burning up those two electric fuel pumps...a 110GPH Blue on Saturday and then a 140GPH Black on Sunday.
I have prided myself on the reliabilty of my vehicles of all types over the years and felt both helpless by the component failure in my boat (a component that I never modified or designed), and also pissed off by that brand-name component failing. I was so dissatisfied by the time that the second one failed over just two days that upon returning to the truck, I took the Blue pump and threw it across the parking lot. I denounced Holley and publicly vowed to never run their pumps again.
But now I wonder if the problem may be in the design of my fuel system. It is dead-headed and does not have a bypass/return line to the fuel tank(s). I speculate that my 110GPH electric pump must be pressurizing the fuel line and then just overloading that little electric motor as it has nowhere to push any more fuel. This is one possibility as to why the pumps are clearly overheating. It might also explain why the stronger 140GPH Black pump failed sooner than the 110GPH Blue.
An electric fuel pump's flow is constant and does not rise and fall with the fuel demands of the engine; conversely, a mechanical pump increases/decreases fuel delivery with engine rpm, which of course makes more sense. Therefore, an electric pump plumbed as most of our are is not a complete system in respect to the mechanical offereing variable fuel volume delivery as detemined by engine rpm.
The way to alleviate the overloading of the electric pump would be to bypass the the excess fuel back to the tank so as to relieve the excess built-up pressure that is heating up the electric motors.
Well, DUH.
This seems obvious enough, so why has it been overlooked? In my case, I think that I did not realize this because I always viewed the fuel log/return line systems as utilized in high-demand fuel delivery where it was important to pump as much as possible so as to keep float levels up, and then bypass at lower rpm's. And so I didn't think I needed one because I never made a pass so long that I drained my float bowls. But now I see the application of the bypass reg does much more than that; it also relieves pressure in those systems and saves that helpless little electric fuel pump motor.
Y'all think that's why the Holley's are burning up? It is after all, the most popular pump out there, so it might be why we see them failing the most. Set-up with a bypass, load on the electric fuel pump's motor will be dramatically reduced and reliability should rise.
Thoughts?
LO

[BowTie Rick]

Hmmmmm, I just toasted mine too. Now you got me thinking :idea:

[Just-Jettin]

I would get rid of the elect. pump and go back to the mech. pump. Clay Smith makes a very nice mech. pump that will without a doubt keep your float bowls full on long wide open passes. You will need to run a regulator with this pump forsure. Magnaflow makes the best regulator, they are in Colorado.

[cyclone]

dead-heading is likely the problem. i had the same problem a couple years back. adding a return line fixed the problem and have zero issues with my holley pumps ever since.

[Havasu Hangin']

Have you guys ever felt how hot those pumps get? Mine get so hot that I can't put my hand on them...
That can't be good.

[LakesOnly]

Have you guys ever felt how hot those pumps get? Mine get so hot that I can't put my hand on them...
That can't be good.
And I'll bet you have a dead-headed fuel system, don't you? It's no different than, say, holding the chuck of your cordless drill while pulling the trigger. The longer you hold the chuck, the more the motor heats up due to the overload. Release the load (had off the chuck) and the motor spins freely and temp drops.
Cyclone confirms in his post above that he experienced the same problem that I am up against, and plumbing a bypass/bleeding off the excess fuel (thereby reducing the load on the pump's electric motor) seems to have solved his problem.
I can't believe I've never looked at the bypass system this way before...for this reason...
LO

[Havasu Hangin']

I run both mechanical and electric. I pretty much just use the electric for priming and running hard, but yes, they are dead head.
When I go through the carbs this winter, maybe I'll change to a bypass regulator.

[Jetboatguru]

Dude, I thought you were more in the know. As a moderator you need to have ultra super boating knowledge. :D

[disco_charger]

I have heard that the current fuels have less lubricant in them than what the Holley electric was originally designed for. The lack of lubricant causes them to heat up and fail. With the current level of high flow mechanical pumps, I just chose to have one less electrical component on my boat. I know, I must be a retro grouch, but I've never had a fuel delivery issue. If I get a bad load of gas, my pump won't slow down and starve my motor, either. Just a thought. Most of the boats I've seen (there are of course exceptions) don't need the "high output" electric pumps they are running anyway. Streigel can blueprint a mech fuel pump to 140 gph an hour anyway, so even if I build to chase Cyclone/HBJet/insert fast guy name here, I could probably get away with the mech anyway. Just my humble opinion.

[LakesOnly]

Nothing wrong with mechanical pumps. I know guys drag racing 521's with them and they are just fine.
in regards to the poor gass quality, I run 100% AvGass with 2 grams per gallon lead in it. Lack of lubrication is highly unlikely in my particular case. I think my fuel delivery system is just incomplete...
LO

[Havasu Hangin']

Dude, I thought you were more in the know. As a moderator you need to have ultra super boating knowledge. :D
The only ultra super boating knowledge I have is where to put the gas in.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/customavatars/avatar6908_0.gif

[flat broke]

Paul,
You hit the nail on the head. Not so much is the issue that the pump loads up at idle and it can't push more fuel, but that fuel actually cools the pump. when there is no fuel circulating the pump heats up and locks up.
So now the question is... is it cheaper to buy a kick ass mechanical, or weld in bungs and run more lines/valves for a return setup on the holley black?
Personally if I can get away with a mechanical I will use that. Its a simple design, one less electrical circuit, and you don't EVER hear about Clay Smith pumps dying in the middle of a run. But electrics have their advantages too.
Chris

[roostwear]

Let me throw a couple things back at you for consideration. Generally speaking, there are two types of pumps- vane and gerotor. Vane pump that are deadheaded will burn up if not plumbed with a bypass. The gerotor can be deadheaded, but are more difficult to find. Your carb really wants volume, not pressure (some pressure is a needed to supply the volume).
Since I subscribe to the KISS principle, why not run a 140 mechanical? It should supply the volume you need, and more reliable (IMHO). If you're on the bottle I wouldn't, but something to think about. See what too many years in hydraulic engineering did to my brain? :messedup:

[Just-Jettin]

I forgot to ask if you have the Gen 5 block or not. Guys with 5 blocks have no choice but to run elect. pumps, due to the small factor that the block doesnt have the casting for a mech. pump.

[disco_charger]

Nothing wrong with mechanical pumps. I know guys drag racing 521's with them and they are just fine.
in regards to the poor gass quality, I run 100% AvGass with 2 grams per gallon lead in it. Lack of lubrication is highly unlikely in my particular case. I think my fuel delivery system is just incomplete...
LO
Well, I have heard again that Av is really hard on the Elec, even with the lead. I know guys who put 4 oz of Marvel in per 10 gallons of Av and get away with it. Good luck with the bypass, and let us know how it works out. Pops has a got an electric set up with no bypass, that I keep one eye warily on.

[victorfb]

for some of us that run the gen 5 and 6 BBC we are forced to run either an electric or a much more expensive belt drivin fuel pump. i run the mallory 140 and with good luck so far. but i do believe pauls diagnostic conclusion is right on. my question would be, were to run the return line? with duel tanks, running the return to just one tank would allow that tank to refill at an assumingly high rate. basically draining one tank to fill the other. the only solution i see (in my case) would be to run the return line to the second inlet of the water seperater/fuel filter. my tanks are bottom fed with equal length line to a (T) then into the seperater, then to the pump and out to the regulater and into the carb. im sure some of you out there are running the return line, and am very curious on the location. and is my assumtion correct that one tank will be drained as the other gets refilled. if so, wouldnt that cause a wieght disstribution problem and also give false fuel level readings to the ones that run a guage?

[HavasuDreamin']

I have heard that the current fuels have less lubricant in them than what the Holley electric was originally designed for. The lack of lubricant causes them to heat up and fail.
I run Klotz synthetic lube in my two stroke with a Holley Blue and have already had to replace one.
Also, for a novice here, how do you set-up a bypass and what parts are needed? I have a blue pump and the corresponding regulator.
Thanks.
HD

[OkieDave]

Jegs sell a neat little fuel log with an adjustable by-pass. I have one on one of my boats.

[cyclone]

for some of us that run the gen 5 and 6 BBC we are forced to run either an electric or a much more expensive belt drivin fuel pump. i run the mallory 140 and with good luck so far. but i do believe pauls diagnostic conclusion is right on. my question would be, were to run the return line? with duel tanks, running the return to just one tank would allow that tank to refill at an assumingly high rate. basically draining one tank to fill the other. the only solution i see (in my case) would be to run the return line to the second inlet of the water seperater/fuel filter. my tanks are bottom fed with equal length line to a (T) then into the seperater, then to the pump and out to the regulater and into the carb. im sure some of you out there are running the return line, and am very curious on the location. and is my assumtion correct that one tank will be drained as the other gets refilled. if so, wouldnt that cause a wieght disstribution problem and also give false fuel level readings to the ones that run a guage?
In my case it was fairly easy to run a return line. I have a holley dominator fuel pump which has a port on the outlet side for a return line. I plumbed -6 line out of that to a t-fitting and from the t-fitting, a separate-6 return line to each fuel tank. I have russell stainless steel 10-gallon tanks that already had the bungs in place up near the filler necks.

[cyclone]

lakesonly- i did think of one other possible cause for your fuel pump problems. My holleys used to stop working if the screen inside got clogged up with debris. Even though i had a good fuel filter on the inlet side of the fuel pump, every now and again i had to remove the baseplate from the pump and clean out the screen. As soon as the screen was clean, the pump would start working again. I replaced a coupe of Holley black pumps before i realized the real culprit. Ended up with spare pumps because of it.

[LakesOnly]

Vane pump that are deadheaded will burn up if not plumbed with a bypass.
Holley is vane type :rolleyes:
Why not run a 140 mechanical? It should supply the volume you need, and more reliable (IMHO).
Haven't ruled out the mechincal, but in my case it also requires a little mod because my alternator is right in front of my block-off plate.
LO

[HavasuDreamin']

In my case it was fairly easy to run a return line. I have a holley dominator fuel pump which has a port on the outlet side for a return line. I plumbed -6 line out of that to a t-fitting and from the t-fitting, a separate-6 return line to each fuel tank. I have russell stainless steel 10-gallon tanks that already had the bungs in place up near the filler necks.
May seem like a stupid question here, but wouldn't the pump push the fuel through the line with least resistance.....ie your return line.........thus not keeping adequate fuel pressure at your carbs?

[LakesOnly]

...with duel tanks, running the return to just one tank would allow that tank to refill at an assumingly high rate.
With the engine off, the tank won't fill any faster than it is being drained. With the motor running, some of the fuel goes to the float bowls...
LO

[LakesOnly]

I forgot to ask if you have the Gen 5 block or not.
I run a FORD. :D
lo

[flat broke]

The pump has a bypass built in. So once pressure backs up from it deadheading, the bypass opens and allows the fuel to run to the tanks to keep the fuel moving somewhere.
Chris

[LakesOnly]

Well, I have heard again that Av is really hard on the Elec, even with the lead. I know guys who put 4 oz of Marvel in per 10 gallons of Av and get away with it. Good luck with the bypass, and let us know how it works out. Pops has a got an electric set up with no bypass, that I keep one eye warily on.
Thanks for the input; I don't buy into the belief that AvGas has inadequate lubrication properties or even that it may have additives that cause this problem.
Also, look at all the electric fuel pumps failing out there on all kinds of gas.
LO

[LakesOnly]

Jegs sell a neat little fuel log with an adjustable by-pass. I have one on one of my boats.
I'll check it out, thanks.
LO

[HavasuDreamin']

The pump has a bypass built in. So once pressure backs up from it deadheading, the bypass opens and allows the fuel to run to the tanks to keep the fuel moving somewhere.
Chris
Sounds like a nice pump. :cool:

[LakesOnly]

lakesonly- i did think of one other possible cause for your fuel pump problems. My holleys used to stop working if the screen inside got clogged up with debris...
I inspected my whole fuel system and it's spotless....the pumps sounded like they are have gravel running through them...took the pump apart and the vanes looked fine; the magnets crumbled.
LO

[LakesOnly]

May seem like a stupid question here, but wouldn't the pump push the fuel through the line with least resistance.....ie your return line.........thus not keeping adequate fuel pressure at your carbs?
this is what a bypass regulator is for.
LO

[HavasuDreamin']

this is what a bypass regulator is for.
LO
I am getting it slowly but surely. :hammerhea
Next question........do you plumb the regulator as close to the carbs as possible?

[Blown 472]

I have had a holley blue pump in my blown car for five years with a moroso bypass log and never had a problem with it.

[jtmarten]

I'm using a red Holley and have the overheat/shutdown problem even at higher rpm's. I installed a relay and it helped for a while, but now the problem returned last weekend. Shut down on me once at about 3500rpm :angry2: , I let it cool for a while, it started running again and had no more problems for the rest of the day.
Doesn't the spring-loaded valve open to allow gas to circulate within the pump for cooling when it deadheads?
I'll be switching to something more reliable for next year, probably go mechanical.

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

My holley blue pump is dead headed also and has been for the past 4 years I have owned the boat. I guess I keep the pedal stabbed enough that flow is not a problem. I don't do much idling either. I live by the rule if it ain't broke don't fix it. although when I had my new tanks built over the winter I did have him install a 1/4" return bung with a plug in it. just in case :D I have the same problem as Lakesonly in that my altenator is right in front of the pump plate. damn FORD!. j/k
Omega

[Bense468]

Return Line, Marvel Mystery Oil. New fuel is dry will burn up pumps. Return lines so they don't get hot. Av gas is very dry. Always add some marvel.
Hollys suck anyway, but they are cheap. Then again most guys I know carry a spare.

[HalletDave]

Originally Posted by disco_charger
Well, I have heard again that Av is really hard on the Elec, even with the lead.
Brian,
That could be true, however, in low wing aircraft the fuel system uses an electric fuel pump to push fuel from the wings to the engine on start up then it switches to a mechanical pump. I don't know whitch type of electric pumps are used though.

[Tom Foolery]

my question would be, were to run the return line? with duel tanks, running the return to just one tank would allow that tank to refill at an assumingly high rate. basically draining one tank to fill the other. the only solution i see (in my case) would be to run the return line to the second inlet of the water seperater/fuel filter. my tanks are bottom fed with equal length line to a (T) then into the seperater, then to the pump and out to the regulater and into the carb. im sure some of you out there are running the return line, and am very curious on the location. and is my assumtion correct that one tank will be drained as the other gets refilled. if so, wouldnt that cause a wieght disstribution problem and also give false fuel level readings to the ones that run a guage?
I would think this would only be an issue if you have a switch to isolate the tanks so you run one at a time.
If both tanks run and meet at a T which feeds a single line your motor and both tanks are vented then they should stay equal unless the gravity feed from one tank is slower than the pump is feeding the one.
Damn! Looks like LO beat me to the answer. I guess I should have read on first.

[roostwear]

One way to plumb a return for a system without return bungs on the tanks, is to "T" on the suction side of the pump. The return from the regulator would go to the T. It's sloppy engineering, but will work in a pinch.

[Rexone]

I have a whole pile of dead Blue Holleys. I used to run them ski racing (as bu for mech). Deadheaded. But the problems I had were all moisture related I feel as the steel vanes all showed signs of rust. Once the vanes rust even a small amount they no longer slide. When they no longer slide the pump no longer pumps fuel. Also the contaminates knock the teflon seal out and then you have a pump that leaks fuel externally as well as not pumping adequately. Therefore I no longer use Holley pumps. I switched to Mallory Geroter and have had no more problems with fuel pumps.
Btw I've seen Holleys run a long time in cars (no moisture environment). In fact I ran one on a pickup I had for many years (red one) as an only pump without issue. So I'm really not buying the deadhead issue causing the failures.
And... Holley advertises these to run in deadhead configuration. If they all didn't work I'm sure Holley by this time would tell you not to do it. Not saying bypass isn't better, it certainly is. Only that the mfg doesn't state to do it that I'm aware of and that my opinion is that most of their problems in boats are moisture related.
LO I can relate to the parking lot football... lol... :D I've had that experience with a few broken items. That and river submarine... :D

[disco_charger]

Originally Posted by disco_charger
Well, I have heard again that Av is really hard on the Elec, even with the lead.
Brian,
That could be true, however, in low wing aircraft the fuel system uses an electric fuel pump to push fuel from the wings to the engine on start up then it switches to a mechanical pump. I don't know whitch type of electric pumps are used though.
The reason I do believe those that have said this (even some boys from Holley) is that if you run Av through it, you won't believe how hot the damn pump gets. The pumps for planes are set up to run Av... I know that overheating has been the death of serveral pumps I've been involved with. The bypass idea seems to be the best solution I've heard so far. I just wonder if it's only a temp fix (fixing only a one of the several problems, delaying death) if the pump is required to have a certain amount of lubricant in the fuel. I think 77 Charger fought with an overheating Holley pump and the reasons for it's failure was overheating. Let us know how it goes LO. Also, as I stated before, I know someone who smoked some pumps, started using Marvel, and never smoked another. Maybe that one was just the "right" pump and the Marvel is no factor.
I like Rio's set up. Makes a lot of sense.

[LakesOnly]

Gentlemen!
Lots of great info, feedback and discussion here! I am so glad I posted this thread.
I am not out of the woods yet and will further evaluate my options (both elec. and mech.).
I am spending next week in Kentucky. I am helping my Uncle Charlie finish up two engines, probably one for the Rail/Friday night asphalt DragsRaces, and the other for the KDBA boat races:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/350TOTG_Flyer.jpg
He will be taking me to several high-end,well-known shops of all kinds in the area. One of them is Quick Fuel Technology. ( http://www.quickfueltechnology.com/ ) They have some interesting upgrade kits for the Holley Pumps. I will now be discussing my application/situation with them first-hand as well.
RexMar, you may want to inquire about their ungrade kits for your toasted pumps; they also accept them as core exchanges.
Thanks again everyone and keep the thoughts comin' in,
LO

[disco_charger]

Disco, when a lubricant is introduced into the system, it really only does two things.
#1. it lubricates! LOL... Sounds dumb I know BUT even a little lubrication is enough to 'free' up the vanes in a Holly pump and let it continue to rotate. If the pump is getting hot, it is because there is a problem in the system. The extra lubrication from whatever type of oil or whatever can actually "mask" the real problem. If a filter is plugged, adding a lubricant can keep the pump operating when the problem should be getting checked out.
#2. THIS IS A BIGGY. I do not use any type of additive with avgas as It doesn't need it. Have never used any and I've been flying since 1974 and as such have used avgas in cars, motorcycles and boats for the last 20 years and if the motor is 'set up' correctly(clearances on valves, etc) there shouldn't be any problem. REMEMBER, oil is thicker than gas and as such it can become a restriction in a gas filter.
Just my 2cents but then I don't know nuttin !
Rio
I agree with everything but the last sentence. You actually sound like you have a clue, unlike say, me. If the pump weren't properly lubricated, would that not create heat? I know that if the set up is correct, Av ain't any big deal. I don't know if there are a lot of Holley pumps that are just that bad? Perhaps all things being equal, the lack of additive in Av (my understanding is it's much purer than the pump) is exposing a weakness in tolerances inside the Holley? This is all really academic to me, I always run mechanical pumps. I'm just curious. I know what you are saying about introducing oil into the gas, and it clogging the system, or perhaps not even truley mixing. I just know that a lot of Holley's I've been around (and one BG) haven't survived. Even a load of crappy dock gas killed one (we're all pretty sure). Just tossing it out there to see what the consensus is. I know enough to know that excessive heat is bad. I know that if you lean the pump out (clogged screen) it heats it up. Heat seams to kill these things, why does everyone seem to have them die from the heat? LO says his system was clean and his died. 77 Charger had a clean system and his died and was really hot. What's heating these things up?

[Squirtcha?]

Mechanical all the way for this guy. All I know is my boat ran for 20+ years with the stock piece o crap mechanical and never gave me any problems.
Now that I've upgraded to a Holley (still mechanical) to feed the additional ponies, I suppose it'll take a crap on me ....................

[Infomaniac]

LO - Yes that is the problem. Not having a bypass system. The more you idle/putt around the worse it is.
Do a search on bypass regulators on this site.
Had a brand new Holley do that to me just letting a new engine idle on a test stand. Not going to rig up a bypass system just to put some heat in a new engine.
A Clay Smith mechanical properly plumbed will support 1,200 HP or so. The high pressure model using a bypass regulator.
If not you can modify the Holley with a bypass regulator. Someone just posted a pic of that in Gear heads within the past few weeks.

[LakesOnly]

Mechanical all the way for this guy. All I know is my boat ran for 20+ years with the stock piece o crap mechanical and never gave me any problems.
Now that I've upgraded to a Holley (still mechanical) to feed the additional ponies, I suppose it'll take a crap on me ....................
Oh I get it Squitcha: It's a Holley thing! You are cracking me up, buddy!
LO

[LakesOnly]

LO - Yes that is the problem. Not having a bypass system. The more you idle/putt around the worse it is.
Do a search on bypass regulators on this site.
Had a brand new Holley do that to me just letting a new engine idle on a test stand. Not going to rig up a bypass system just to put some heat in a new engine.
A Clay Smith mechanical properly plumbed will support 1,200 HP or so. The high pressure model using a bypass regulator.
If not you can modify the Holley with a bypass regulator. Someone just posted a pic of that in Gear heads within the past few weeks.
Thanks Info,
I need to evaluate cost of relocating my alternator (to make fooom for a mchanical pump) vs. bypass.
LO

[texas-19]

This is my experience with a holley blue.Mounted it low in the boat like holley says to do,put brand new filters in suction line,run pump gas and the first time out it took a dump when i was crusing at 3000 rpms.I two do not take floating across a lake lightly.I ran a mechanical for 4 years without a problem then had a brain fart and switched to electric.
What i did do was switch to a Aeromotive electric and problem has been solved so far.Their pump is a little more expensive but they are a much nicer pump and they don't seem to get as hot.
Now i carry a spare pump,just in case.pretty bad when you have to carry spare parts.Guess the smart thing to do would be to go back to mechanical huh.
Mike

[disco_charger]

Basically my question then becomes, why is it only Av that does this on my friends boat? Are the tanks at airports that much dirtier? Does the additive in pump gas mask the other problems in the system? Just curious. Not looking to stir up too much shit. I don't build in a clean room. You seem to be talking about particles. I watched a motor builder I respect a ton drop his ash from his cigar into the lifter valley of a blown alcohol deal after I asked him about "clean rooms." His response was "If it can't survive that, it don't deserve to live." I've kind of adopted that philosophy when assembling. Now, I bring this all back to the fuel pump situation. You're telling me that micron sized bit disruppting the fuel flow can cook the pump? I'm willing to bet that 99.99% of us have some kind of stuff, no matter how small in our tanks. If we run filters that catch the micron sized stuff, they're forever clogged. That means no fuel delivery. In the middle of a run, a little lean pop, and some new machining is on order. If this is in fact the case, Holley shouldn't be ashamed, they should be out of business.
Editors note
(I don't really want Holley to be out of business. It's the only carb I use or know anything about.)

[Sleek-Jet]

Basically my question then becomes, why is it only Av that does this on my friends boat? Are the tanks at airports that much dirtier?
Well, I can personally vouch that the tanks/fuel at the airport are not dirtier. Aviation fuel is handled very delicately. It's usually filtered off the transport, again when it's pumped into the refuler, then once again as it's pumped off the refuler and into your tank. It has to be clean because of what it's designed to be used for. Most contamination of aviation fuel happens at the refinery or at the bulk plants, not the point of sale.
Now pumping it at the local gas station might be a different story. I doubt they take the precautions to maintain the quality of the fuel that the people at the airport do.
If you are really worried about it, ask the line tech that fills the boat to sump the truck right there in front of you (it's called a white bucket test). Have them sump the tank and the filter. The fuel should be a crystal blue color without any water (looks like dirty bubbles on the bottom) or particulates in it. If it has that stuff, go somewhere else.

[Squirtcha?]

Oh I get it Squitcha: It's a Holley thing! You are cracking me up, buddy!
LO
Sorry for the cynicism Paul. I really don't have anything against Holley. I've just had a really bad run of luck with their electric fuel pumps. I had a red I was using just for nitrous fuel enrichment. The dang thing leaked on me, but i figured it was old (the pump was used when I got it) and I bought the rebuild kit and did it up. It still leaked at the plate, so I figured the plate had been overtightened by someone over the years and was warped causing the leakage. I bought a brand new blue and that one leaked in the same place right out of the box. That was enough to turn me off right there.

[LakesOnly]

People that I have been speaking with seem to be passing on the Holley these days and running BG. And then there's the newcomer to the market, Aeromotive. Their pump looks both quality and show from the outside, & the electric motor for turning the pump looks to be 150% the size of the Holley (doubt it gets as hot). Rivertard has had on on his boat for 1 1/2 years with no trouble. The there's the Mallory which seems to suit the job for our boats just fine.
As far as electric pumps go, I am leaning toward the Aeromotive due to it's larger electric motor/150 GPH/price. It costs the same as a Mallory, whose electric motor is the size of the Holley's (same flow/price). The toss-up is that the Mallory has the gerotor pump/smaller motor, and the Aeromotive has the vane pump/bigger motor. I like the gerotor set-up...but that was not what failed in my case (it was the electric motor).
Or I still may relocate my alternator to the stock location and run a mechanical.
The Product Engineering stuff is overkill for my lake boat.
LO

[wsuwrhr]

If you are really worried about it, ask the line tech that fills the boat to sump the truck right there in front of you (it's called a white bucket test). Have them sump the tank and the filter. The fuel should be a crystal blue color without any water (looks like dirty bubbles on the bottom) or particulates in it. If it has that stuff, go somewhere else.
It is such a pretty blue too.
Brian
(Misses running AV 100LL.)

[OkieDave]

I have the Aeromotive electric pump on one boat, a Holley mech. on another, and a Holley blue on yet another boat. They all work fine. One thing I see a lot is when guys use a Holey pressure regulator and only plumb out of it on one side. They use the other side for a guage. The flow out of the regulator is reduced pressure while the flow into it is higher pressure. If both outlet sides of the regulator are plumbed, there is more flow to the system. You can still tee in a pressure guage. I still like the by-pass method best for regulating pressure. just my .02

[dmontzsta]

I just finished reading this thread, it is interesting.
We have had a holley blue on the boat for 7 years (since we bought the boat) the guy before us had it on there for 2 years, it was on there when he bought it from the previous owner. It still flows 6-8psi today. Unfortunately it will serve as a back up in the toolbox. I had to buy another pump since I am now running nitrous. I ened up getting a nice summit racing pump it is black and billet, flows 140gph with a max of 18psi. It was only $105 or $145 with the billet deadhead regulator (which I bought two). I just hope to keep this new fuel pump running great as long as possible. I have talked with people who run deadend regs with no problems. I will let you guys know if it goes out, if it does I will be upset. I would like to switch to a bypass system, but didnt have the money for those fancy regulators and did not want to plumb it.
I have also been told that pumps will shut off or regulate itself and will not keep flowing if the lines are beyond full.
BTW: If anyone wants a kick ass fuel pump at a great price check www.summitracing.com they sell a beautiful piece and we have come to the conclusion it looks to be a paxton made pump.

[flatnfast]

my pump spins and comes on but will not suck any fuel, is this what you are talking about? ihow are you plumbed with the bypass? i go straight from the tanks to a tee into a canister filter to the pump and regulator then up to the carbs.

[PC Rat]

Is anyone running one big pump with returns to two tanks? Wouldn't one overfill if they both didn't supply and return evenly?
What pumps/return systems are the racers using with big hp engines?
Is there a difference between a bypass system and true return system? Seems like this way still wouldn't let the pump fun freely, because it's not returning to the tank with zero pressure.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1394Holly_red_1-med.JPG

[LakesOnly]

Well, since this thread popped up on the radar again, I may as well mention that I went with the Aeromotive Pump. It was advertised as being designed for continuous use and other boaters have had no trouble with them for years. The modification to adapt it into my fuel system was no modification at all, really. Just a 1/2-inch shorter fuel pipe between filter and pump, and then a 5/8-inch Delrin stand-off between the filter mount and stringer:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/350Aeromotive.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/350Aero_Install.jpg
One other change I made to my set-up was changing out the stock automotive alternator pulley to that of a 5-inch diameter underdrive alternator pulley. Since the motor is almost always above 5000 rpm, I figured I didn't need to spin my alternator so hard, and--for what it's worth--maybe my little electric fuel pump motor will appreciate being subjected to a little less voltage. And that worked too; I used to see 15.5 volts on my voltmeter in about 15 seconds. Now, after a long extended pass, I get a gradual increase to 13.5 volts. :)
I have made two trips to Lake Berryessa and spent plenty of time in the 5mph zones and plenty of time flat out clear across the lake. No fuel system troubles on either day.
LO

[sanger rat]

I bought the Summit pump after my holley blue quit. So far I like it. Looks just like that Aeromotive pump. My 2 cents.

[CARLSON-JET]

once I rigged a decent bypass on my holley (blue) it really cooled it down... plus I have an enclosed eng. compartment and I ran a fresh air duct to the top of the pump ... about 200 hours of cruizing and idling and all is good .. R.B.