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Essex502
08-20-2004, 11:34 AM
Sorry about the literary license I took with the title but this is really interesting:
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/1404swift_graphic.gif
This was taken from the New York Times.

Dave C
08-20-2004, 01:05 PM
no doubt that there are some connections to republicans. Most of the vets call themselves republicans.
The problem is that the Boston Globe (ain't friends of Bush) has endorsed some of what they are saying.
Whats funny is that Kerry asked Bush to call off his attack dogs but when asked if Kerry was going to call off his attack dogs (e.g. moveon.org) his campaign said no.
so when the dems use dirty tricks its OK but when republicans do it... its an outrage.
ain't politics great.

Jeanyus
08-20-2004, 01:39 PM
If Kerry is telling the truth. He could shoot down the swift boat vets for truth, by making his military record public. If I was a war hero with, 1 silver star, 1 bronze star, and 3 purple hearts, the first thing I would do is whip out my military record and remove all doubt. Whats Kerry got to hide?

v-drive
08-20-2004, 01:52 PM
4 months in country and he is all that. I Know when I was 4 months in country I was still being led around. He is a liar and a disgrace to his uniform. :cool: v-drive

mirvin
08-20-2004, 01:53 PM
What a whining terd Kerry is turning out to be. Too bad the dems can't find someone worth voting for......
mirvin :rolleyes:

572Daytona
08-20-2004, 01:58 PM
I think Michael Moore should do a documentary on the swift boat veterans, that will get to the truth of the matter :rolleyes:
I just read that Kerry is now suing the group, a preview of what we have to look forward to if we get 2 whiny :cry: lawyers in the white house. I'm sure they will just sue any enemy that attacks us, that will teach them to mess with the US. He will have to raise our taxes just to pay for the legal bills.

AzDon
08-20-2004, 01:59 PM
If those swift boat guys had a problem with the way medals were issued, they had a duty to speak up about it thirty years ago! What they are doing is putting a taint on EVERY MEDAL that was issued during the Vietnam era! What I really get from watching the ad, though, is that these guys have universally been waiting thirty years to pay Kerry back for his Congressional testimony, and they are willing to compromise their own personal integrity to do it! It is their right to express themselves, but I think if they truly believe that the system that gave Kerry his medals is/was corrupt, they wouldn't be anxious to keep/brag about their own medals!
As for MoveOn. org, I have not seen any ad of theirs that looks like a dirty trick?! Enlighten me!

gramps
08-20-2004, 02:07 PM
anyone that bases their vote on the 'nam issue and the swift boat thing is a fool...............

mirvin
08-20-2004, 02:09 PM
anyone that bases their vote on the 'nam issue and the swift boat thing is a fool...............
So I shouldn't let all the fabrications in Farenheidt 911 effect my vote either???? Oh my....what will happen?:D
mirvin

summerlove
08-20-2004, 02:10 PM
oh, I just can't control myself....oh well, here goes! :yuk: (The article didn't show up for me to read so I can't comment on it)
Kerry never asked to have the commercials removed, at least not as of last night. But you know who did, MCCain! He asked the Prez and his peeps to condemn it and they said "NO", even though they now it to be false and very misleading. The lies and misrepresentations of this administration continue to amaze me - and what amazes me more is that the American people allow him to get away with it. If this were Clinton they'd be all over him like a bee on honey, or in this case, like a fly on BS! :yuk:

572Daytona
08-20-2004, 02:12 PM
The president did condemn it along with all other soft money ads.

Dr. Eagle
08-20-2004, 02:12 PM
! What they are doing is putting a taint on EVERY MEDAL that was issued during the Vietnam era!
I think John F. Kerry put a taint on EVERY MEDAL that was issued during the Vietnam Era, by his testimony before congress (his claim that he was a war criminal) and by his apparrent "throwing away" of his medals... which he later claimed were not really his medals... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Jeanyus
08-20-2004, 02:14 PM
Its funny how liberals spin everthing around and try to make others look bad.
If an American gets killed in a war, or wounded
.loses limbs etc, he receives a purple heart. And another American (Kerry) gets a self inflicted injury that gets treated with a bandaid.
Fills out his own report, and demands a purple heart. Talk about a looser who has no respect for the purple heart symbol, and what it means.
The swift boat vets would probably be supporting Kerry today like they did 30 years ago, by keeping thier mouths shut, except for the fact that Kerry turned on them and called the baby killers etc. He also spoke at Jane Fonda rallies. In my book Fonda is a traitor, and so is Kerry.

AzDon
08-20-2004, 02:17 PM
I think Michael Moore should do a documentary on the swift boat veterans, that will get to the truth of the matter :rolleyes:
I just read that Kerry is now suing the group, a preview of what we have to look forward to if we get 2 whiny :cry: lawyers in the white house. I'm sure they will just sue any enemy that attacks us, that will teach them to mess with the US. He will have to raise our taxes just to pay for the legal bills.
Anybody that publishes unflattering information about any person certainly needs to research their info carefully and completely and have a complete list of quotable sources or risk losing a substantial sum of money when bullshit is called!
Truth liability is the reason we are able to trust the mainstream media (more or less)
For all the bitching about Michael Moore around here, everybody seems to be ignoring that he has published every source and referenced it's use, line-by-line in his movie Fahrenheit911. This is a journalistic standard that I doubt the Swiftees or even FoxNews is willing to mimic!
How do I know the info in F911 is more-or-less factual? Because I don't see GWB engaging Michael Moore in a lawsuit!! The truth hurts, but pursuing, and then losing a lawsuit to Micheal Moore would not be as effective for GWB as simply calling him a liar is!

Jeanyus
08-20-2004, 02:19 PM
How do I know the info in F911 is more-or-less factual?
emphasis on the LESS!

mirvin
08-20-2004, 02:21 PM
oh, I just can't control myself....oh well, here goes! :yuk: (The article didn't show up for me to read so I can't comment on it)
Kerry never asked to have the commercials removed, at least not as of last night. But you know who did, MCCain! He asked the Prez and his peeps to condemn it and they said "NO", even though they now it to be false and very misleading. The lies and misrepresentations of this administration continue to amaze me - and what amazes me more is that the American people allow him to get away with it. If this were Clinton they'd be all over him like a bee on honey, or in this case, like a fly on BS! :yuk:
Kerry did ask Bush to condemn the ads. Kerry also asked the publisher of the book to withdraw it from retailers. Kerry also asked retailers to move the book to the fiction department.
Everyone screaming about Bush lying needs to understand the truth. If Bush lied, we'd be seeing an Impeachment. IT's that simple. You know who did lie, CLinton, which is why he was impeached. Fortunatly he was able to confuse everyone into thinking his impeachment was over sex instead of his lying.......
Anyway, how is it that the swiftboat thing upsets you but you're fine with Farenheidt 911?
mirvin

Dave C
08-20-2004, 02:23 PM
huh?...
here you go
Kerry files complaint (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1506&u=/afp/20040820/ts_alt_afp/us_vote_kerry_vietnam_040820214246&printer=1)
[QUOTE=summerlove]Kerry never asked to have the commercials removed, at least not as of last night. QUOTE]

mirvin
08-20-2004, 02:29 PM
Anybody that publishes unflattering information about any person certainly needs to research their info carefully and completely and have a complete list of quotable sources or risk losing a substantial sum of money when bullshit is called!
Truth liability is the reason we are able to trust the mainstream media (more or less)
For all the bitching about Michael Moore around here, everybody seems to be ignoring that he has published every source and referenced it's use, line-by-line in his movie Fahrenheit911. This is a journalistic standard that I doubt the Swiftees or even FoxNews is willing to mimic!
How do I know the info in F911 is more-or-less factual? Because I don't see GWB engaging Michael Moore in a lawsuit!! The truth hurts, but pursuing, and then losing a lawsuit to Micheal Moore would not be as effective for GWB as simply calling him a liar is!
I see it another way..... Bush isn't worried about the F911 crap becuase he knows its crap. Kerry on the other hand, seems very worried. So worried that he has yet to address any of the questions regarding facts as he presented them. All the hubbub about Kerry is over stuff HE SAID, not stuff others have said. But with F911 and Bush, it's other people saying crap and Bush don't care cuz he aint worried about it.
mirvin

Dave C
08-20-2004, 02:31 PM
You know don, you have a rose-colored view of truth in the media. You should talk to a lawyer.
Truth has nothing to do with the media. You can espouse an opinion that can be dead wrong but you cannot slander someone.
Also, there are the ½ truths (i.e. taking facts out of context). Michael “Goebbels” Moore does this well. So did the Nazi’s when they condemned the jews. It doesn’t make it right.
Example if I slap you upside the head and then you punch me back and I tell the cop you hit me….. that is a half truth. ;)
remember there are 2 sides to every story.

Havasu_Dreamin
08-20-2004, 02:38 PM
What they are doing is putting a taint on EVERY MEDAL that was issued during the Vietnam era!
Get a grip! That's a little over the top don't you think?

BoatFloating
08-20-2004, 02:44 PM
Hey there I have a F**king New Flash. All Politicians lie and it's all mud slinging. You people beleive everything you read. Cut the puppet stings and do your home work. Kerry is like a fish on the floor of a boat...flip flop all over the place. If you beleive every thing you read, then read my ad below...
For Sale: 1 slightly used Bridge in Arizona. A little damaged in move from London and a few bullet holes from a war or two. It can be yours for $10,000.

Dave C
08-20-2004, 02:48 PM
can I get some kool aid with that? ;)
Hey there I have a F**king New Flash. All Politicians lie and it's all mud slinging. You people beleive everything you read. Cut the puppet stings and do your home work. Kerry is like a fish on the floor of a boat...flip flop all over the place. If you beleive every thing you read, then read my ad below...
For Sale: 1 slightly used Bridge in Arizona. A little damaged in move from London and a few bullet holes from a war or two. It can be yours for $10,000.

summerlove
08-20-2004, 02:52 PM
Its funny how liberals spin everthing around and try to make others look bad.
If an American gets killed in a war, or wounded
.loses limbs etc, he receives a purple heart. And another American (Kerry) gets a self inflicted injury that gets treated with a bandaid.
Fills out his own report, and demands a purple heart. Talk about a looser who has no respect for the purple heart symbol, and what it means.
The swift boat vets would probably be supporting Kerry today like they did 30 years ago, by keeping thier mouths shut, except for the fact that Kerry turned on them and called the baby killers etc. He also spoke at Jane Fonda rallies. In my book Fonda is a traitor, and so is Kerry.
talk about a spin! genius you continue to amaze me with your made of load of bs. Were you there? do you know how he earned his medals? or are you just speculating? Sounds to me like your beginnig to believe your spin, kind of like O.J. believes his lies. After awhile they all seem plausible. :frown:

eliminatedsprinter
08-20-2004, 02:54 PM
This whole thing is playing right into Kerry's hands. It is helping him by distracting the public and the media and thus assisting his camp in hiding and obfiscating his political track record.
As for Bush sueing M Moore over his movie, even if he can prove every main point in it is a lie (as others already have done) he still can't sue (others in his position have tried) because M Moore uses con man weasle words to discribe his film as "his vision of the truth" etc and by calling it a work of art, rather than a purely factual documentary. Nope, it is better that Bush just ignore the film and M Moore like the garbage that they are. Like dog turds on the sidewalk, just step over them and keep moving forward.

Dave C
08-20-2004, 03:18 PM
SL,
THIS is whats in the book. Thats why its so controversial.
Don't ask me if its the truth or not. It was claimed by someone that was supposedly there.
If an American gets killed in a war, or wounded
.loses limbs etc, he receives a purple heart. And another American (Kerry) gets a self inflicted injury that gets treated with a bandaid.
Fills out his own report, and demands a purple heart. Talk about a looser who has no respect for the purple heart symbol, and what it means.

Jeanyus
08-20-2004, 04:28 PM
SL I watced the author of Unfit For Comand, On Hanity and Colmbs, The guy has a direct answer for every question. No flip flop, no dodging the question. Colmbs threw some hardballs at him, the guy hit them out of the park.
2 questions I ask myself, why would Vietnam vets not want a fellow vet for President. Why won't Kerry make his Vietnam record public? If what Kerry claims is true, he could end the controversy with his military records.
Here's what amazes me, A guy like Moore,makes a propaganda film, and when questioned about it, he does not give 1 striaght answer, yet you believe the whole thing.
But when people say something about your boy, and they invite the New York Times to come and grill them on what they have to say, they are automatically liars. BTW the NY time would not show for the interview.
I just got back from Barnes and Noble, to get a copy of unfit for comand. They are sold out, the sales guy said the publisher was not prepared for the demand on that book. Guess what, Kerry is going down in flames.

AZKC
08-20-2004, 04:39 PM
This stuff just amazes me :) :rollside: If you read it or hear it or see it, it has to be true :notam:

INXS
08-20-2004, 04:48 PM
is sinking fast :rollside:

MagicMtnDan
08-20-2004, 04:54 PM
Did you just fall off the turnip truck or what?! :argue:
Who effen cares (a) that the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth have some distant ties to the GOP and (b) therefore the NY Times says they're "connected" to President Bush! Furthermore, who effen cares (c) what the NY Times says?! If you think the NY Times is unbiased and isn't out to get Bush and get Kerry elected then you didn't fall off the turnip truck, you loaded it, drove and it and own it!
If you think anything the SBV for Truth says is "bad" or unfair you need to read up on your hero, George Soros:
George Soros - Worse Than Hitler (http://www.matriots.com/apn/224/soros1.htm)
George Soros: Imperial Wizard/Double Agent (http://www.fourwinds10.com/news/05-government/E-new-world-order/2003/05E-12-17-03-george-soros-imperial-wizard-double-agent.html)
George Soros: A Money Changer in the Temple of Truth (http://mediamatters.org/items/200406080004)

Mandelon
08-20-2004, 07:01 PM
Why is that graphic at the top of the thread a surprise or a revelation?? One would expect to see pro Bush people funding the Swift Boat Vets...who else would? If it helps your guy, you donate.......
It doesn't necessarily mean Bush himself had anything to do with it........Soft money ads have been directed against him as well.
Why are the vets speaking out now? As an ineffectual Senator he really wasn't a problem, but for them, having Kerry as commander in chief is worth making a stink about.

sandblasted
08-20-2004, 07:13 PM
Am I the only one who sick and tired of the Vietnam War litmus test for president?...
c'mon already...Kerry made excuse after excuse for Billl Clinton's not serving in Vietnam, now he is calling Bush less than honorable for serving in the National Guard...I could care less that Clinton wasn't in Nam..I did not like his policies therefore I didn't vote for him..
Service in Vietnam has absolutely nothing to do with how a man will perform as president. There are 1000's of people who served in Vietnam with honor but not many of them are qualifed to be president of the USA!!
Back in the 1980's Maggie Thatcher ran a war between Argentina and England..she had no military experience but she made the right decisions for her country...That's all I want a president to do...make the right decisions...
when it comes to that Bush has a much better track record of supporting our military than Kerry does...No matter how much shrapnel Kerry has in his body he has shown over the last 30 years that he does not support our military when it counts...
I won't be voting for him because of his track record, not because of some stupid swiftboat commercial!!

Dr. Eagle
08-20-2004, 07:22 PM
I won't be voting for him because of his track record, not because of some stupid swiftboat commercial!!
BANG! Just what I've been saying since the convention and the swiftboat stuff. All of this Vietnam talk is irrelevant... for Clinton, Bush and Kerry.
Kerry has shown he is not a leader. He has shown he does not support the military or the intelegence community.
Had he gotten his way we would have no CIA to blame for everything right now, and we wouldn't have many of the current weapons systems that give our military so many advantages over adversaries!
Well said Sandblasted... BRAVO!

AzDon
08-20-2004, 08:15 PM
It's about character exhibited when the call comes in....
1) As young men were drafted to be sent to Vietnam, Bush ran from this possibility by enlisting in a "safe" program created especially for sons of privelege
2) Instead of being "all he could be" flying obsolete fighter jets, he inexplicably gave up his flight certification by refusing the physical (fishy!) THEN went AWOL for a year, which apparently can be covered up when you're a Congressman's son
3)On Sept. 11, 2001, as the nation was looking to him for comfort and guidance..... He jumped on his (make that our!) beloved 747 (he was in Florida)...... But did he head for Washington? Hell No!! Anywhere but Washington for him while there was any chance that he was personally vulnerable!! Full fighter escort and All!!
The guy is all about tuff talk as long as he can write the checks and someone else's kids die to make payment! He is also completely about personal self-preservation and if you don't recognize this, you are in denial.
Bush Runs again and again! He's been running all over the country on his (our) 747 picking up million dollar corporate quid quo pro all over the country.Now he's running for president and would like to be put in office (this time) by the country's voters and perhaps we're gullible enough to put him there!!

summerlove
08-20-2004, 08:16 PM
2 questions I ask myself, why would Vietnam vets not want a fellow vet for President. Why won't Kerry make his Vietnam record public?
Answer to your questions.
#1: Politics
#2: Kerry's record is public. Bush's is not.

Flying Tiger
08-20-2004, 08:19 PM
Don, You're a liberal because you want something for nothing. A free ride.
This country wasn't built on a free ride.
Anyone who takes a hardline political stance either liberal or conservative is myopic.
Those like you that want someting for nothing at others expense,, end up with nothing for something,, and never realize the got boned.

summerlove
08-20-2004, 08:19 PM
Anyway, how is it that the swiftboat thing upsets you but you're fine with Farenheidt 911?
mirvin
I have not seen F911 so I cannot comment on its contents. Unlike many other who also have not seen it but condem it. It was interesting that F911 was listed as the most hated movie of 2004. What was also intersting is that is was also listed as one of the best movies of 2004. Go figure.

AzDon
08-20-2004, 09:04 PM
Don, You're a liberal because you want something for nothing. A free ride.
This country wasn't built on a free ride.
Anyone who takes a hardline political stance either liberal or conservative is myopic.
Those like you that want someting for nothing at others expense,, end up with nothing for something,, and never realize the got boned.
I probably work more hours for less money than anyone on this board! I am the senior man where I work and the work of all my coworkers is available to me for first refusal and I could often work six days while 2 other guys get two or less BUT I DON'T BECAUSE I CARE ABOUT OTHERS NEEDS BEFORE MY OWN NEEDS. MAYBE YOU'VE HEARD OF THIS CONCEPT....IT'S CALLED "THE GOLDEN RULE"!!
I think there are peeps here that were never introduced to the concept of "sharing" as kids and don't see any need to think about having an interconnected society. They are perfectly okay with the financial suffering of other participants as long as the money funnel tips their way and their low-cost labor needs are met. (Notice that I said "particpants" because I don't like freeloaders either) Do you appreciate the guy who washes your car? the waitress that brings the food or the guy that cooks it? How about the people that stock the shelves or the truckers that work 70 hours a week, mostly at night getting the stuff there? If all these folks "bettered themselves" and invaded your occupation, wouldn't demand soften and drive your wages down? And who would fill the low-wage positions they left?
WHY IS IT SO DAMN HARD TO ADMIT THAT PEOPLE THAT PARTICIPATE SHOULD BE PAID A WAGE THAT REFLECTS PARTICIPATION?
I AM NOT LAZY!! I DON'T WANT ANYTHING I HAVEN'T WORKED FOR AND I THINK YOU ARE WAY OUT OF LINE TO IMPLY THIS!!!
MY POLITICAL BELIEFS ARE FORMED FROM A "GOLDEN RULE" VIEW OF WHAT THIS COUNTRY NEEDS TO BE VITAL!
IT AMAZES THAT SMART PEOPLE CAN TAKE SUCH A SELFISH, SLASH-AND-BURN VIEW OF SOCIETY AND CALL IT REALITY!

MagicMtnDan
08-20-2004, 09:49 PM
It's about character exhibited when the call comes in....
On Sept. 11, 2001, as the nation was looking to him for comfort and guidance..... He jumped on his (make that our!) beloved 747 (he was in Florida)...... But did he head for Washington? Hell No!! Anywhere but Washington for him while there was any chance that he was personally vulnerable!! Full fighter escort and All!!
WHAT ABOUT YOURCHARACTER (and the lack of it) DON?!
You're simply regurgitating what you saw at the Fearandhate 9-11 movie. You've got no brain - you're mouthing the words of the anti-American, propagandist, communist Michael Moore. Like many way left liberals, he espouses internationalist views that have more Communist content than anything else.
Want a free ride? Go to France or most anywhere in Europe. Just please GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE! :220v:

bigq
08-20-2004, 10:56 PM
If those swift boat guys had a problem with the way medals were issued, they had a duty to speak up about it thirty years ago! What they are doing is putting a taint on EVERY MEDAL that was issued during the Vietnam era! What I really get from watching the ad, though, is that these guys have universally been waiting thirty years to pay Kerry back for his Congressional testimony, and they are willing to compromise their own personal integrity to do it! It is their right to express themselves, but I think if they truly believe that the system that gave Kerry his medals is/was corrupt, they wouldn't be anxious to keep/brag about their own medals!
As for MoveOn. org, I have not seen any ad of theirs that looks like a dirty trick?! Enlighten me!
Bingo, I think that is what the real issue is, Kerry cause a lot of anguish with that testimony and now it is payback, right or wrong it is a private group and Bush couldn't stop if he wanted to.
The thing that annoys me is all the hatred towards bush in the speeches movies, books and protest and i have not heard him wine and cry and call in the lawyers once. Now Kerry wants this book to be stopped like some dictator :eek:
I'm sorry ,but I can't stand to listen to Kerry talk anymore in that condescending, make me want to kick him in the junk.

bigq
08-20-2004, 11:00 PM
I have not seen F911 so I cannot comment on its contents. Unlike many other who also have not seen it but condem it. It was interesting that F911 was listed as the most hated movie of 2004. What was also intersting is that is was also listed as one of the best movies of 2004. Go figure.
Kill Bill2 was better :rollside:

MagicMtnDan
08-21-2004, 05:48 AM
It's about character exhibited when the call comes in....
As young men were drafted to be sent to Vietnam, Bush ran from this possibility by enlisting in a "safe" program created especially for sons of privelege
You're a hypocrite and here's why - You talk about Bush's character and say that he "ran" from enlisting. Sorry to bring this up but your idol, Bill Clinton, exhibited even lower character when he "ran" to England to study.
And how about the many tens of thousands who got student deferments from the draft by going to college?! Did they also "run" and show a lack of character?
And how about YOU? You could have enlisted. Did you? (Even if you did you're still a hypocrite).
Get your head out of the oven and start breathing some oxygen Don. It will do wonders for your thinking :cool:

bigq
08-21-2004, 06:43 AM
It's about character exhibited when the call comes in....
I just read this sober :D Gave me a good laugh, now your worried about character. :D :D :D

UBFJ #454
08-21-2004, 07:34 AM
Rather than "Bash" Anyone or "Take Off" on Anything in the media, I'm simply going to State The "Roots" of My Personal Objection to Kerry ... Please Note That I Am Definitely No Big Fan of The "Bush Camp" ... and, Nader's a Joke to me ... I am, and always have been, a Registered Independent and am Appalled By The Lack of Quality of People Currently in Our Country's Politics.
That having been said, I'll just state why I Personally Object to Kerry and Have No Faith In,or Trust of, Him.
During my 1st Tour in Vietnam in The Corps as an "Advisor", in '64 & '65, the length of the Tour was 6 months and you had to Volunteer ... I did so twice and stayed a total of a year the "First" Time. When the Marines came into Vietnam in strength in April of '65 at China Beach near DaNang (was there to "greet" them) their Tour was for a full year ... Subsequently, all "In Country" Tours in both the Corps & Navy were for a year (Except for Certain "Special OP's" Personel).
Kerry has said that he Volunteered for Duty in Vietnam (Note he also Volunteered for and went through Naval Officer's Training) ... I believe his actions to this point are very "Commendable" ... But Now Starts The "Rub" ...
He gets there, does whatever he does for 4 1/2 Months then ..... 3 Days after his 3rd Purple Heart is approved ... He Ops Out, Both of Vietnam And Then, Within A Month of Coming Back To "The World" , The Navy (What I have said thus far is all well documented in his Naval Service File ... I have made absolutely nothing up).
To Me, He Did Not Keep His Word and Fulfill Either His Commitment to Duty in Vietnam, Nor His Obligation (Which He Also "Signed" Up For) to His/Our Country: The 3 Purple Heart Thing ... Coming Home After Three, Was Not Mandatory ... From Personal Experience, I Know You Had To REQUEST RELEASE From Your TOUR, Which He DID ... Don't get me wrong, It Wasn't A Frigg'in Picnic Over There and I can Understand Not Wanting To Be There (You Really Had To Be "Over The Line" Not to Feel That Way) ... But ... A Quitter Is A QUITTER and it has been my Experience in my 60 years that once someone quits a very difficult circumstance ... More Than Likely, Will Do It Again .....
That's The Basic "Root" of Why I, Personally, Do Not Want John Forbes Kerry To Be President of Our Country: The Pressure Any President of Our United States Is Constantly Under in terms of "COMMAND DECISIONS" that Must Be Made has to be a "NightMare" for Any Individual Elected To That Office And Its Inherent Responsibilities ... Kerry Has Not Shown To My Satisfacion That He Has The Required Personal Moral Fiber To "Stay The Course" In Difficult Situations ... He, Kerry, Has Quit More Than Once and I'm Afraid He'd Do It Again With Critical Consequences To Our Nation & Our People.
Going Back On, Or Not Keeping Your WORD Just Doesn't "Cut It" With Me ... Must Just Be The Residual "HooRAH"Left In Me.
I'm really not a very "Happy Camper" as regards our choices in this election and the Negative "Rhetoric" coming from Both Camps.
P.S.: My editing here is a result of my Wife, Debbie, being a PhD. English Teacher and her finding a few misspellings ... Not a Good Thing in Our Home.

Jeanyus
08-21-2004, 07:35 AM
Answer to your questions.
#1: Politics
#2: Kerry's record is public. Bush's is not.
Politics. Thats a good answer. But I'm not buying it. Because In the past 30 years, Vietnam vets have not gone after a candidate, the way they are going after Kerry.
Only small parts of Kerrys record are open to the public. The majority of which was written by him.
As far as Busch's Military record goes, He got an honerable discharge, he was paid during the time he was allegly AWOL. And he is not trying to get re-elected as a war hero.
The Swift Boat vets may angry with Kerry, because when he got home from his mini tour, he slapped all of these guys in the face.
http://thewall-usa.com/buttons/daddy2.jpg

AzDon
08-21-2004, 07:55 AM
WHAT ABOUT YOURCHARACTER (and the lack of it) DON?!
You're simply regurgitating what you saw at the Fearandhate 9-11 movie. You've got no brain - you're mouthing the words of the anti-American, propagandist, communist Michael Moore. Like many way left liberals, he espouses internationalist views that have more Communist content than anything else.
Want a free ride? Go to France or most anywhere in Europe. Just please GET THE HELL OUT OF HERE! :220v:
Apparently, you didn't see the movie because the FACT that Bush RAN AWAY from Washington was not made an issue or even mentioned in this movie.
I just finished saying that I do not want a free ride and that I probably work harder than you do....ARE YOU DYSLEXIC OR RETARDED??

Seadog
08-21-2004, 08:19 AM
I served in Nam. I got shot at, etc,etc. I have no metals other than those that show I served. In my first week in-country, my group got hit by a mortar attack and we dove for the ditches. I scrapped my elbow (actually pretty bad)in the fray. A medic checking everyone out, put a patch on and asked me if I wanted my PH. A guy I was talking to before, was being hauled off, a true victim of the attack. There was no way I could accept a purple heart for a 'boo-boo'. I would not knock someone that did, unless they disgraced their fellow vets like Kerry did. It is a difficult quandry. You do not want to criticize your fellow vets for actions that you partly understand. But when push comes to shove, you have to set limits.
My Dad did two tours. One was working with the swift boats in the Delta. He has a silver star and two bronze stars, among other. He doesn't talk about how he earned his medals, but from friends, I know one was from crawling 2 miles with a broken leg to get help for his men after a jeep flipped. I also know that he dispises Kerry and what he stands for.
I also spent 15 years with the national guard. I cannot speak for every state, but most of those I served with were those with family and jobs they did not want to leave, but wanted to serve anyway. They were volunteers before there was a volunteer army. Many of those were like me, Vietnam vets that were not done with serving. We wanted to teach those who were not there.
I is no use explaining things like this to summer and don. They believe the half truths and distorted views of fat egocentric a##holes like moore and BS reporters for liberal rags. John Kerry yells "I am a hero" and he is believed without question, but because Bush served in the guard, he is vilified by those who would not serve. Those who feel that military service was beneath them.

MagicMtnDan
08-21-2004, 10:41 AM
What's the difference between Hanoi Jane Fonda and John Kerry?
One's a female traitor who posed at an anti-aircraft gun in North Vietnam while the US was fighting the North Vietnamese Army (and flying planes over that very North Vietnamese anti-aircraft gun).
The other's a male traitor who poses as a Vietnam war hero yet left the war prematurely (because he could opt out after getting three owies), came back to the USA to hang out with Hanoi Jane and her Communist sympathizers, throw someone's war medals over the fence at the White House in protest, vote against all military bills, and now claims to be capable of leading this country in a time of war.
http://www.rightguys.net/images/kerry-fonda2.gif
Edited to remove my calling Don a moron - sorry.

AzDon
08-21-2004, 01:05 PM
I'm sure you work harder than I do. I work with my brain. You drive a truck (absolutely no offense to truck drivers everywhere) and give truck drivers a bad name.
As for your question am I dyslexic or retarded - the answer is clearly a little of both I am :wink: - it's what happens when I enter into a battle of wits with you, an unarmed man :argue:
PS: Bush "ran away" from Washington DC like Patton ran away from the Battle of the Bulge you moron.
Nice!
Namecalling....I guess that means I win.... Thanks and have a nice day!

Essex502
08-21-2004, 03:02 PM
Too bad this thread has devolved to name calling and away from the original diagram outline the pretty blatant ties to administration and Swift Boat Veterans for Truth - not counting the contradictions in statements.

Seadog
08-21-2004, 04:58 PM
Why is there a big deal of the ties with the republicans. Do you think that the liberals/democrats are going to sponsor the book? Nothing has been said about the ties between the democrats and Kerry with Moore, between Kerry and Clinton, between Kerry and Soros. Soros made statements that could be construed as a terrorist threat against the U.S. What about the lies and inaccuracies of Kerry's book, Clinton's book and the blatant lies and inacurracies of F9/11.
Also, to criticize Bush for not returnig to Washington during the chaos of 9/11 is a sure sign of a moron. Stating facts is not name calling. Rule one of any nation is to get the leadership out of town during an attack. AF1 is set up as the most advanced mobile command center on earth. If Bush had been in DC, the first thing that the Secret Service would have done would be get him out of there. If they had seen any further signs of attack, all of Congress would be in hiding.

HighRoller
08-21-2004, 10:31 PM
Okay, so let's get this straight. Out of 200 Vets who oppose Kerry, you have found three whose third cousin married the Janitor of a Republican supporter. Therefore you discredit the whole group. On the other hand, 4 vets are rolling with Kerry 24/7. They have been made national celebrities. They get to Hob-Knob with stars. They stay in 5 star hotels every night. But they are still "objective" supporters of Kerry. Gimme a flippin break. If I had no character like these slobs and got the star treatment, I'd say whatever he wanted me to. Kerry's camp cannot prove the SwiftVets are funded by the GOP(because they aren't), so they have to use innuendo and legal threats. What is Kerry afraid of? If he would just sign NAVY form 180 all the questions would be answered. But he refuses. What DOES he have to hide?

AzDon
08-22-2004, 08:15 AM
I think the info presented at the beginning of this thread Shows directly that Bush insiders orchestrated this Ad Campaign..... The Swift Boat thing is so outrageous, that I was sure it was a independent,renegade Anti-Kerry group...GUESS I WAS WRONG!

steelcomp
08-22-2004, 09:30 AM
Nice!
Namecalling....I guess that means I win.... Thanks and have a nice day!
AzDon,
You're such a TYPICAL liberal Bush Hater. What was calling MgicMtnDan dislexic or retarded...a compliment?? I think you started the name calling, but then you're the first to cry when someone else does it to you. (sound familiar?) Are you sure you're not running the democratic campaign?
You're a jackass of increadible proportion. You have nothing constructive to say, just like your candidate, who is as big a jackass as you. Every time Kerry opens that sore under his nose that ought to be sewn up, a different story comes out. How can you possibly defend someone like him? Oh, that's right, you (and everyone else like you) can't defend him on ONE SINGLE front, so you go to the next best thing, and attack his opponent, our President. You sound like you have never heard anything or read anything outside the mainstream liberal media that's trying so hard to push their liberal agenda. You're a parrot. The President fled? You moron, (yes, moron) the president was PUT on AF1 by the secret service to keep him out of harms way. It's the first order of warfare. We had NEVER been attacked here like that and NO ONE knew what to expect. What would you have had him do? The issue of him being AWOL has been gone over and over and there's still no evidense that he was AWOL. Dental records proved he was where he was supposed to be. Trust me, if he was really AWOL, it would be all over the media, right now, front page, in every argument thrown out by the libs, but it's been disproven. Most don't realize that, because of his father's position in the gov't, they wouldn't let him into active service anyway. I have to tell you, IMO Navy pilots have the biggest balls in the world. Ever think of what it's like to try and land a fighter jet that barely flies at landing speed, on an aircraft carrier not much more than a couple hundred yards long, while it's moving 20 kts. through the water? I'm a pilot, and I'll tell ya. No thanks! That in itself, puts him in an elite class of which I have great respect and admiration. Every attack they've tried to level against Bush has gone dry, because they really don't have much on him. But they (you) HATE him. Why? What has he done that is so awful, that he brings out such hatred, because that's what this is all about. I'll tell you why. He's a good, decent, Christian man, who inherited a country in a shambles after 8 yrs of Clinton, and has done a pretty damn good job. He's not perfect, but no one is, and I don't know anyone out there who could have done a better job than he did with what he had to work with. You want to talk about the issues of WMD's, and how he lied? He didn't lie, he just went on the info that he got from his intelligence, (like other countries that collaborated the info) through a system that had been RAPED by the Clinton admin, and was rendered damn near useless anyway, along with some inherant design flaws never brought about before 911 and the war in Iraq. Even Kerry stated that Sadaam couldn't remain as the threat he was with his WMD's. And they HAVE found WMD's. Lots of them anad evidense they were there. You just don't hear about that on ABC.
Why is the VietNam issue so important? It's on that which Kerry has based his WHOLE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN, and is so weak in the first place. Kerry is a classic opportunist and saw the people in this country showing a dissatisfaction for the war in Iraq, and thought he'd exploit that, and beat his little chest, and try and make himself look superior to Bush by promoting a negative war campaign based on his having "been there, done that". Problem is, the ONLY reason Kerry went to Nam in the first place was disengenious. It was to pad his political profile. The whole time he was there, he was preparing himself for a political career. He took a job on a Swift boat...on the Makong Delta, an area of very low level activity, especially where he was, got his three PH's as fast as he possibly could, and HE RAN!!! Right into a political career, not months later. If he really wanted to fight, why didn't he join the reg Army or Marines? (No offense to Navy) Then to look "cool, and with it" he makes up these stories about burning down villiages and comitting attrocities. That kinda backfired, huh? H'es so pathetically transparent, as is the whole liberal agenda behind him. The VietNam issue regarding Kerry is so important because the very thing he bases his campaign on is being proven from every direction to be one huge lie! He's a pathological liar, just as Clinton is. You can't get a straight answer out of either of them! On anything! Ever! It's a DIRECT indication into the kind of person he is, and how he can't be trusted. What is it about that that you don't see or get?
I'll tell you why the libs hate Bush so much. He's the biggest threat to the lliberal agenda to come along, and you guys know it. Your time has come, after 40 yrs of trashing this country and what it stands for, and you're panicking! You have no response to the issues at hand, so you attack the messenger. Why dosen't Kerry answer the allegations, instead of attacking the SB Vets? Because he dosen't dare go there. He'll get slaughtered.
It's looking pretty bad for you guys. Thank GOD!

steelcomp
08-22-2004, 09:51 AM
"If Bush had been in DC, the first thing that the Secret Service would have done would be get him out of there. If they had seen any further signs of attack, all of Congress would be in hiding."
Most of Congress WAS hiding, by orders.
"Why is that graphic at the top of the thread a surprise or a revelation?? One would expect to see pro Bush people funding the Swift Boat Vets...who else would? If it helps your guy, you donate.......
It doesn't necessarily mean Bush himself had anything to do with it."
Bush himself has come out and condemned this type of campaigning saying he dosen't like it. I don't believe he's behind it at all.
Bottom line is, why doesen't Kerry just calmly come out and answer the allegations? He dosen't want to go there. He already has what, 5 different versions of his Christmas in Cambodia story? C'mon...the guy's a LOOSER beyond repair! He's a professional politician, like Clinton was. And this is the representative of the best that the libs have???!!! :confused: :rolleyes:

MagicMtnDan
08-22-2004, 11:46 AM
Bravo Steelcomp!
Let's see if AzDon has anything to say ijn response other than bashing Bush or reiterating something that America-hater Michael Moore said.

AzDon
08-22-2004, 11:59 AM
AzDon,
You're such a TYPICAL liberal Bush Hater. What was calling MgicMtnDan dislexic or retarded...a compliment?? !
Ahhh!... I thought this might come up!... Re-read the sentence!... It was a question... I ASKED HIM IF HE WAS dyslexic or retarded-- not the same as namecalling! It also was in response to him trying to paint me with a brush that I had just finished denying ownership of! It was not in response to any valid debate point. Trying to label somebody differently than they label themselves is annoying and uncalled for, but only entitled me to QUESTION his perception (dyslexic or retarded?) It would be NAMECALLING if I called him a moron... get it?
Oh and what I got from that long post of yours was: Blah, Blah, you are a jackass, you are a moron, Blah, blah blah.....that doesn't sound like refraining from namecalling to me!

Mandelon
08-22-2004, 12:07 PM
That's a pretty wussy argument about namecalling Don. :idea:

steelcomp
08-22-2004, 12:45 PM
Ahhh!... I thought this might come up!... Re-read the sentence!... It was a question... I ASKED HIM IF HE WAS dyslexic or retarded-- not the same as namecalling! It also was in response to him trying to paint me with a brush that I had just finished denying ownership of! It was not in response to any valid debate point. Trying to label somebody differently than they label themselves is annoying and uncalled for, but only entitled me to QUESTION his perception (dyslexic or retarded?) It would be NAMECALLING if I called him a moron... get it?
Oh and what I got from that long post of yours was: Blah, Blah, you are a jackass, you are a moron, Blah, blah blah.....that doesn't sound like refraining from namecalling to me!
Oh, please, you're just doing it again! You're So predictable!!! You weren't asking a literal question. Do you really think everyone reading this is that stupid? You must think we're ALL dyslexic and retarded to think that we believe you were honestly and sincerely asking a legitimate question! C'mon AzDon (Kerry) have the balls to admit what you were really doing, and that was disguising an insult in the form of a question so as to be able to hide behind the format and dodge the issue! Again, sound familiar? Man, you're textbook!
It's funny that out of all that I wrote, you could only address the name calling. You're right, I partook! But you opened the door. And the picture of you that was being painted is accurate. Trying to label someone different than they label themself is what we call telling the truth. You need to listen. Label yourself all you want. It dosen't mean it's accurate or true. Kerry is a perfect example. This dosen't need to get personal, but it can.
If you could remove yourself from your emotional ties to what you think, and listen to some of what has been written here, you might be able to benefit from it. I say that with all sincerity.

AzDon
08-22-2004, 01:57 PM
People also make the assumption that I support John Kerry and that simply is not true. I voted for Wes Clark because I thought he was the best guy for the job and the most electable and nearer to the middle in ideology than any of the others.
I personally think Kerry is a weak candidate with very little workable vision (just like Bush). We wouldn't have had all these problems if GWB had conceded that the true will of the people was to make Mr. Gore the president. While I don't support Kerry, he is the lesser of two evils and I think another four years with our "selected" president will be a disaster.
PLEASE DON'T CALL ME A KERRY SUPPORTER!

INXS
08-22-2004, 02:26 PM
" very little workable vision"
Well kerrys changes every day, accept for wanting to raise taxes!
Bushs is clear, Kill Them Before They Kill Us!

steelcomp
08-22-2004, 03:27 PM
"We wouldn't have had all these problems if GWB had conceded that the true will of the people was to make Mr. Gore the president. "
Please show us where that comment is substantiated.
For me, this has nothing to do with the candidate you are supporting, more, it's the socialistic and communistic direction this country has gone in that it seems you wish to defend and perpetuate, and the ideals and values of those who you align yourself with when you take the positions that you do. Fortunately, this country is still mostly conservative, and IMO has finally woken up and realized that what has been going on under mostly democratic liberal leadership for the last 40 yrs, simply can't go on any longer.
Liberalism, socialism, and communism, all basically the same, don't work. They never have, and they never will. Not in the real world.

Seadog
08-22-2004, 04:30 PM
We have the four commanders of the other boats saying that other than the mine explosion, no enemy fire was exchanged. The only boat that ran from the action, was John Kerry's. His medal was awarded for shooting a wounded kid in the back. Only a few (~12)vets, of the hundreds of Swift Boats vets from that time, support Kerry's allegations. Three purple hearts and not a drop of blood was spilt.
The Swift Boat vets against Kerry have stated in public that they have nothing to do with Bush and if he were to ask them to stop, they would say no. You have MoveOn and other liberal/democrat organizations with known ties to Kerry making blantant lies about Bush. George Soros is the money behind MoveOn and the Kerry campaign. He pulls Kerry's strings, along with Ted (Mary Jane) Kennedy. Kerry refuses to acknowledge these facts or try to stop the lies. His total lack of honor is very apparent. I disagree with Bush on many issues, but he is a man of honor.

INXS
08-22-2004, 05:29 PM
"We wouldn't have had all these problems if GWB had conceded that the true will of the people was to make Mr. Gore the president. "
Please show us where that comment is substantiated.
For me, this has nothing to do with the candidate you are supporting, more, it's the socialistic and communistic direction this country has gone in that it seems you wish to defend and perpetuate, and the ideals and values of those who you align yourself with when you take the positions that you do. Fortunately, this country is still mostly conservative, and IMO has finally woken up and realized that what has been going on under mostly democratic liberal leadership for the last 40 yrs, simply can't go on any longer.
Liberalism, socialism, and communism, all basically the same, don't work. They never have, and they never will. Not in the real world.steelcomp
AMEN!

Essex502
08-23-2004, 05:37 AM
"We wouldn't have had all these problems if GWB had conceded that the true will of the people was to make Mr. Gore the president. "
Please show us where that comment is substantiated.
CNN:
PRESIDENT Vote % Votes
BUSH 48% 50,456,169
GORE 48% 50,996,116
Does that count as substantiation?
Pssst...No hanging chads in those nymbers. :D

572Daytona
08-23-2004, 05:57 AM
CNN:
PRESIDENT Vote % Votes
BUSH 48% 50,456,169
GORE 48% 50,996,116
Does that count as substantiation?
Pssst...No hanging chads in those nymbers. :D
Nope, those numbers are meaningless, since the will of the people is that the president is chosen using Electoral votes, not general popular vote. How do you know that there weren't a lot of people that didn't bother to vote knowing that their state heavily favored Bush? If they knew it was based on a poplular vote their actions may have changed. If the dems don't like the current electoral system, why didn't they work on changing it in the last 4 years rather than just whining about it?

Essex502
08-23-2004, 06:16 AM
Nope, those numbers are meaningless, since the will of the people is that the president is chosen using Electoral votes, not general popular vote. How do you know that there weren't a lot of people that didn't bother to vote knowing that their state heavily favored Bush? If they knew it was based on a poplular vote their actions may have changed. If the dems don't like the current electoral system, why didn't they work on changing it in the last 4 years rather than just whining about it?
Good point...the votes of the 100 million that did vote are meanlingless. FACT: Most people that vote don't understand the electoral vote process. They believe they are, in fact, voting for the president and their votes do mean something. "May have changed"? Were all the votes in Florida correctly tallied they "May have changed" and GW (who I voted for) May not be in office.

572Daytona
08-23-2004, 06:24 AM
Good point...the votes of the 100 million that did vote are meanlingless. FACT: Most people that vote don't understand the electoral vote process. They believe they are, in fact, voting for the president and their votes do mean something. "May have changed"? Were all the votes in Florida correctly tallied they "May have changed" and GW (who I voted for) May not be in office.
Way to twist my words, obviously you don't understand the electoral process either if you think the total popular vote is meaningful in the context of that process.

Essex502
08-23-2004, 07:40 AM
Way to twist my words, obviously you don't understand the electoral process either if you think the total popular vote is meaningful in the context of that process.
I understand it completely...what you don't seem to understand is that there are many, many people who don't understand it and assume that their vote (popular vote) elects the president. The electoral voting process is antiquated and hasn't been need since we built roads.
The numbers speak for themselves...the people voted for Gore but Bush won simply because of an antiquated process and a little help from the blue hairs in Florida. Boy did the Republicans fight hard to keep those results. :D

Jeanyus
08-23-2004, 07:57 AM
CNN:
PRESIDENT Vote % Votes
BUSH 48% 50,456,169
GORE 48% 50,996,116
Does that count as substantiation?
Pssst...No hanging chads in those nymbers. :D
The liberal media prematurley called the election in favor of Gore.
I wonder how many thousands of votes would have been cast for Bush, Had the media not done this.

572Daytona
08-23-2004, 08:06 AM
I don't agree that the electoral process is antiquated. It's a good way to ensure that some of the sparsely populated states get at least a fair shake of representation. If the popular vote was all that mattered, the politicians would limit their campaigns to only the big cities, representating only their needs and I don't think that would be good for the US as whole. But if you think it needs changing, take some action towards that end rather than just complaining about it. Our president was elected fairly according to the rules of our election process at the time.
As for Florida, there were some inaccuracies due to the voting equipment that was used, but I suspect that every state and previous elections had similar problems as well But since voting equipment isn't partial, there is an equal chance that it affected both sides so the overall results wouldn't be skewed. And it was the dems not the republicans that filed the first lawsuits and the votes from those counties were recounted by hand and it still didn't change the results. I haven't heard, but I'm hoping that some new equipment will be in place for this years Florida election? I found it somewhat ironic that the amount spent on lawyers contesting the last election could have easily bought new state of the art voting equipment for all of Florida and probably all of the US. Wouldn't that be a better way to spend the money if the parties truly cared about making sure the will of the people is heard?

HighRoller
08-23-2004, 08:22 AM
A week before the election the Democrats were holding out hope against a Gore defeat by saying he could lose the popular vote but still win the electoral college. Of course, when the exact thing happens but Bush wins, it's "theft". I'm so tired of people disregarding or spinning the facts.
FACT: Bush won Florida. Fair and Square. Multiple recounts were conducted with all parties present and accounted for and all parties agreeing that the result was fair and accurate.
FACT: Al Gore was the first to take legal action to block the winning result for Bush. He won in the State Supreme Court. Bush appealed(his legal right) and won at the US Supreme Court level. Bush was not elected by the Supreme Court. He merely played by Gore's own rules and won.
FACT: Al Gore demanded a recount, but only in counties with predominantly Democratic voters. He also sued to block the inclusion of absentee ballots of military members.
FACT: Al Gore at NO time led the Florida vote. Bush did not "steal" anything because he led from start to finish.
Stop whining you sore losers. Accept the truth. Gore lost fair and square. Get on with your life.

Debbolas
08-23-2004, 08:28 AM
Maybe this is why he threw the medals into the trash?!
(or were those different ones?)

OGShocker
08-23-2004, 08:31 AM
If those swift boat guys had a problem with the way medals were issued, they had a duty to speak up about it thirty years ago! What they are doing is putting a taint on EVERY MEDAL that was issued during the Vietnam era!
Not true. Just the medals Kerry threw over the fence! :hammerhea

Debbolas
08-23-2004, 08:36 AM
my bad..............over the fence, but he kept the ones they are argueing about..............I am confused.................... :220v:

OGShocker
08-23-2004, 08:58 AM
my bad..............over the fence, but he kept the ones they are argueing about..............I am confused.................... :220v:
No one knows. He will NOT produce his metals to the press. One has to ask why. Does he still have them?
The point to me is, do we want a commander in chief that lothes the military at a time of war? Remember this is the guy the helped coin the phrase "Baby Killers"!
____________
Bush '04

Seadog
08-23-2004, 08:59 AM
I love it when the democrats talk about how they were screwed by the electoral college in the last election. It was probably the closest race on record, but hardly the first time that that had happened. Interestingly enough, in 1960, there were some know false voting for Kennedy that Nixon chose to not fight. In Texas and Illinois, there were districts that had more votes for Kennedy than registered voters. You had fifteen electoral votes that went against the popular vote in Virginia.

OGShocker
08-23-2004, 09:01 AM
Thank GOD for the Florida 500! :rollside:

Essex502
08-23-2004, 10:37 AM
The liberal media prematurley called the election in favor of Gore.
I wonder how many thousands of votes would have been cast for Bush, Had the media not done this.
Can't you guys think of better excuses than this...what next...it was a Tuesday and all good Republicans were at the homeless shelter giving out hot meals and the buses weren't running so they didn't get to the voting booths on time. :D

Essex502
08-23-2004, 10:50 AM
A week before the election the Democrats were holding out hope against a Gore defeat by saying he could lose the popular vote but still win the electoral college. Of course, when the exact thing happens but Bush wins, it's "theft". I'm so tired of people disregarding or spinning the facts.
FACT: Bush won Florida. Fair and Square. Multiple recounts were conducted with all parties present and accounted for and all parties agreeing that the result was fair and accurate.
FACT: Al Gore was the first to take legal action to block the winning result for Bush. He won in the State Supreme Court. Bush appealed(his legal right) and won at the US Supreme Court level. Bush was not elected by the Supreme Court. He merely played by Gore's own rules and won.
FACT: Al Gore demanded a recount, but only in counties with predominantly Democratic voters. He also sued to block the inclusion of absentee ballots of military members.
FACT: Al Gore at NO time led the Florida vote. Bush did not "steal" anything because he led from start to finish.
Stop whining you sore losers. Accept the truth. Gore lost fair and square. Get on with your life.
Let me add some more FACTS:
FACT #1: The recounts were ruled unconstitutional by the Republican dominated U.S. Supreme Court and were halted. True results of the statewide recount will never be known.
FACT #2: Independent recounts after the fact found the Bush would have won in [b]some[b][i] methods of recounting the Gore would have won in other methods.
FACT #3: The Florida election has been closely scrutinized since the election, and several irregularities are thought to have favored Bush. These included the notorious Palm Beach "butterfly ballot", which produced an unexpectedly large number of votes for third-party candidate Patrick Buchanan, and a purge of some 50,000 alleged felons from the Florida voting rolls that included many voters who were eligible to vote under Florida law. ([i]Not that I would ever condone letting felons vote. 57,700 voters were listed as felons on a "scrub list" and removed from the voting rolls, but later analysis shows many were incorrectly listed. (In some cases, the alleged felonies were dated several years after the election and the vast majority of the listed were not felons.) These persons were disproportionately Democrats of African-American and Hispanic descent. While the story was widely reported from November in countries such as the UK, the US media refused to publish it until many months after the elections)
FACT #4: The Bush campaign petitioned the U.S. Supreme Court to intervene in Florida where the Florida Supreme Court had already ruled to allow the recounts to proceed.
FACT #5: There were a number of overseas ballots missing postmarks or filled out in such a way that they were invalid under Florida law. A poll worker filled out the missing information on some hundred of these ballots.
FACT #6: Some 179,855 ballots were not counted in the official tally. These were ballots which were mistakenly filled out, however, in some counties the voting machines (Accuvotes) would return the ballot and allow voters to try again, whilst in other counties the reject mechanisms were not enabled, thus giving voters only one chance to correctly mark the ballot. As a general trend, reject mechanisms were disabled in disproportionately African-American and Hispanic counties. (We'll never know which way these would have gone but the tradional African-American and Hispanic vote goes Democrat)
These are only some of the facts you conveniently left out.

Essex502
08-23-2004, 11:05 AM
I don't agree that the electoral process is antiquated. It's a good way to ensure that some of the sparsely populated states get at least a fair shake of representation. If the popular vote was all that mattered, the politicians would limit their campaigns to only the big cities, representating only their needs and I don't think that would be good for the US as whole. But if you think it needs changing, take some action towards that end rather than just complaining about it. Our president was elected fairly according to the rules of our election process at the time.
When I call the electoral college process antiquated I quote the following facts:
1) It was put into place because the founders of our country didn't trust that the common "man" (remember only men could vote then) could NOT be trusted to elect a President. Common citizens weren't able to decide - or so the founding fathers believed - whether or not a candidate was qualified to BE President.
2) It was a compromise to please the smaller states that actually get more leverage in a Presidential election...i.e. Wyoming for example 1 Electoral College vote represents approximately 70,000 voters but for California each E.C. vote represents approximately 179,000 votes.
3) It will probably never be changed as it takes a Constitutional Amendment to change it and it is inconceivable the the smaller states would vote for change.

MagicMtnDan
08-23-2004, 11:05 AM
Why do liberals/Democrats:
* still bring up the election four years ago?
* still make it sound like they were ripped off?
* ignore actions by their liberal Democrats that they won't tolerate from Republicans?
* overlook Kerry's shameful, harmful, negative accusations of every soldier (his fellow soldiers) as soon as he got out of Vietnam?
* overlook Kerry's record of voting against every major defense program he's voted on?
My guess is they don't like Kerry any more than the Republicans. Most Democrats that will vote for Kerry are, in my opinion, Bush haters plain and simple.
Way to throw away your vote on a:
* multi-multi-millionaire (half-a-billionaire),
* politician with a very wacked out wife,
* guy with a disgraceful post-war history,
* senator with the most liberal voting record,
* politician who wants to increase our taxes,
* politician who wants to give "free healthcare to everybody" (only those who work will pay for it so those who don't will get it free).

Essex502
08-23-2004, 11:07 AM
Why do liberals/Democrats:
* still bring up the election four years ago?
* still make it sound like they were ripped off?
* ignore actions by their liberal Democrats that they won't tolerate from Republicans?
* overlook Kerry's shameful, harmful, negative accusations of every soldier (his fellow soldiers) as soon as he got out of Vietnam?
* overlook Kerry's record of voting against every major defense program he's voted on?
My guess is they don't like Kerry any more than the Republicans. Most Democrats that will vote for Kerry are, in my opinion, Bush haters plain and simple.
Way to throw away your vote on a:
* multi-multi-millionaire (half-a-billionaire),
* politician with a very wacked out wife,
* guy with a disgraceful post-war history,
* senator with the most liberal voting record,
* politician who wants to increase our taxes,
* politician who wants to give "free healthcare to everybody" (only those who work will pay for it so those who don't will get it free).
Why is Kerry considered a 1/2 a Billionaire?

sizzlingcell
08-23-2004, 11:07 AM
We were not there but I am inclined to believe the 250 or so people in this group over Kerry, The real issue to me is what happened after he returned from Vietnam. Who wants a President who talked shit about his fellow soldiers and even lied about so called acts they committed and lied about being in Cambodia on Christmas eve. What a Putz, Bush at least has been supportive of this Countrys servicemen who are laying it on the line right now folks.
Anyone in the Antelope Valley friday night should come out to the AV Fair opening night at 9:30 at the new Fairgrounds and see my band play. Rock On!

MagicMtnDan
08-23-2004, 11:28 AM
Why is Kerry considered a 1/2 a Billionaire?
Here you go - from the Washington Post - read it and weep:
Heinz Kerry's Wealth Glimpsed
Release Stops Short of Full Disclosure; GOP Seeks Broader Look
By Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 12, 2004; Page A06
Under pressure from Republicans, Teresa Heinz Kerry provided a glimpse of her considerable wealth yesterday, disclosing a 2003 income of $5.1 million, on which she has paid at least $587,000 in federal income taxes so far. (MMD's comment: Wouldn't it be great to earn $5.1M and ONLY pay $587,000 in Federal income taxes!!! That's like 11.5%!!! I'd LOVE to pay that little on what I earn!!!)
The wife of likely Democratic presidential nominee John F. Kerry, Heinz Kerry inherited a $500 million fortune when her first husband, Sen. H. John Heinz III (R-Pa.), died in a plane crash. Last month, Sen. Kerry (Mass.) released his tax return, which he files separately from his wife, disclosing a $395,000 income that Republicans said belied the family's vast wealth.
The Kerry campaign responded yesterday with a news release that stopped short of full disclosure. The campaign said Heinz Kerry had received an extension of the deadline for filing her 2003 federal income tax return, and would release the first two pages when it is ready in October.
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18838-2004May11.html

Essex502
08-23-2004, 11:33 AM
Here you go - from the Washington Post - read it and weep:
Heinz Kerry's Wealth Glimpsed
Release Stops Short of Full Disclosure; GOP Seeks Broader Look
By Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 12, 2004; Page A06
Under pressure from Republicans, Teresa Heinz Kerry provided a glimpse of her considerable wealth yesterday, disclosing a 2003 income of $5.1 million, on which she has paid at least $587,000 in federal income taxes so far. (MMD's comment: Wouldn't it be great to earn $5.1M and ONLY pay $587,000 in Federal income taxes!!! That's like 11.5%!!! I'd LOVE to pay that little on what I earn!!!)
The wife of likely Democratic presidential nominee John F. Kerry, Heinz Kerry inherited a $500 million fortune when her first husband, Sen. H. John Heinz III (R-Pa.), died in a plane crash. Last month, Sen. Kerry (Mass.) released his tax return, which he files separately from his wife, disclosing a $395,000 income that Republicans said belied the family's vast wealth.
The Kerry campaign responded yesterday with a news release that stopped short of full disclosure. The campaign said Heinz Kerry had received an extension of the deadline for filing her 2003 federal income tax return, and would release the first two pages when it is ready in October.
Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18838-2004May11.html
It seems that you're accusing John Kerry of the wealth of his wife...an inheritance is NOT community property in most if not all states. Should they divorce he's back to not much.
Weep? I couldn't care less if Kerry is elected...this is open debate only.

eliminatedsprinter
08-23-2004, 12:18 PM
CNN:
PRESIDENT Vote % Votes
BUSH 48% 50,456,169
GORE 48% 50,996,116
Does that count as substantiation?
Pssst...No hanging chads in those nymbers. :D
Meaninless...Even as an overall count. In states where the absentee or military ballots are not enough to change the outcome, they are not counted. Everyone who follows politics knows absentee and military ballots tend to favor conservitives. The overall winner of the popular vote will never be known.

OGShocker
08-23-2004, 12:18 PM
This just in!!!
Denounced! (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040823/D84L3UO01.html)

Essex502
08-23-2004, 12:23 PM
Meaninless...Even as an overall count. In states where the absentee or military ballots are not enough to change the outcome, they are not counted. Everyone who follows politics knows absentee and military ballots tend to favor conservitives. The overall winner of the popular vote will never be known.
The post was in response to the dispute of the popular vote favoring Gore. You're right...with all the snafus surrounding the election in Florida, the absolute popular vote will never actually be known.

Essex502
08-23-2004, 12:25 PM
This just in!!!
Denounced! (http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040823/D84L3UO01.html)
That's old news dude...4 hours ago...please stay awake in class! :D

Ducatista
08-23-2004, 12:33 PM
We were not there but I am inclined to believe the 250 or so people in this group over Kerry, The real issue to me is what happened after he returned from Vietnam. Who wants a President who talked shit about his fellow soldiers and even lied about so called acts they committed and lied about being in Cambodia on Christmas eve. What a Putz, Bush at least has been supportive of this Countrys servicemen who are laying it on the line right now folks.
Anyone in the Antelope Valley friday night should come out to the AV Fair opening night at 9:30 at the new Fairgrounds and see my band play. Rock On!
Not a bad idea, I'm stuck home next weekend, in you're area(AV), sounds like fun.

eliminatedsprinter
08-23-2004, 12:33 PM
More evidence the the McCain Feingold Campaign Finance Reform Act is a dimwitted, poorly written law inflicted upon our country by a pair of slightly dim and hugely overrated senators and a congress that was willing to pass almost anything in order to appear to be doing somethig....AAAAggg I'm giving myself a headach just thinking like these twits...... :mix: :squiggle:

572Daytona
08-23-2004, 12:46 PM
That's old news dude...4 hours ago...please stay awake in class! :D
Actually Bush said pretty much that same thing on Larry King right after the first ad came out, I don't know why the media didn't consider it a condemnation at the time. From the 8/12 Larry King interview:
KING: Do you condemn the statements made about his...
G. BUSH: Well, I haven't seen the ad, but what I do condemn is these unregulated, soft-money expenditures by very wealthy people, and they've said some bad things about me. I guess they're saying bad things about him. And what I think we ought to do is not have them on the air.

Essex502
08-23-2004, 12:47 PM
Actually Bush said pretty much that same thing on Larry King right after the first ad came out, I don't know why the media didn't consider it a condemnation at the time. From the 8/12 Larry King interview:
KING: Do you condemn the statements made about his...
G. BUSH: Well, I haven't seen the ad, but what I do condemn is these unregulated, soft-money expenditures by very wealthy people, and they've said some bad things about me. I guess they're saying bad things about him. And what I think we ought to do is not have them on the air.
Like hell he didn't see it...if you believe that I have an island for sale!

572Daytona
08-23-2004, 12:52 PM
When I call the electoral college process antiquated I quote the following facts:
1) It was put into place because the founders of our country didn't trust that the common "man" (remember only men could vote then) could NOT be trusted to elect a President. Common citizens weren't able to decide - or so the founding fathers believed - whether or not a candidate was qualified to BE President.
2) It was a compromise to please the smaller states that actually get more leverage in a Presidential election...i.e. Wyoming for example 1 Electoral College vote represents approximately 70,000 voters but for California each E.C. vote represents approximately 179,000 votes.
3) It will probably never be changed as it takes a Constitutional Amendment to change it and it is inconceivable the the smaller states would vote for change.
As for 1, when was the last time the electoral college ignored the will of the people in their state if ever? I know it hasn't happened in my lifetime, so that is pretty much a non issue.
2 is exactly the reason why I think the electoral college is needed. I don't want leaders in the country decided pretty much by California and NY, they can't even elect effective leaders for their own states, why would I want them selecting my president?

572Daytona
08-23-2004, 12:56 PM
Like hell he didn't see it...if you believe that I have an island for sale!
Maybe he did, but the fact is he still did condemn it and said it shouldn't be on the air.

OGShocker
08-23-2004, 01:03 PM
Maybe he did, but the fact is he still did condemn it and said it shouldn't be on the air.
572, You are having a war of wits with a person that brings no ammo to the fight. He is trying to be the next in the LAKE PIRATE line of baiters. Call a seize fire or finish him with facts. He will do his best to cut and paste his way out of it but to no avail. Next tactic we'll be name calling or insults. Grab some popcorn and watch.
Bush '04!

AzDon
08-23-2004, 07:40 PM
572, You are having a war of wits with a person that brings no ammo to the fight. He is trying to be the next in the LAKE PIRATE line of baiters. Call a seize fire or finish him with facts. He will do his best to cut and paste his way out of it but to no avail. Next tactic we'll be name calling or insults. Grab some popcorn and watch.
Bush '04!
This post borders on namecalling, but actually makes implications about the guy's preparedness to debate.... How would you know that?

steelcomp
08-23-2004, 09:06 PM
It seems that you're accusing John Kerry of the wealth of his wife...an inheritance is NOT community property in most if not all states. Should they divorce he's back to not much.
Following is a brief backround on Mrs. John Kerry.
Maria Teresa Thiersten Simoes-Ferreira Heinz Kerry. Married Senator Kerry in 1995. She only took his name eighteen months ago and she is an "interesting" paradox of conflicts.
If you thought John Kerry was scary, he doesn't hold a candle to his wife! Maria Teresa Thiersten Simoes-Ferreira Heinz Kerry was born in Mozambique, the daughter of a Portuguese physician, was educated in Switzerland and South Africa. Fluent in five languages, she was working as a United Nat ions interpreter in Geneva in the mid-60's when she met a "handsome" young American, H. John Heinz, III, who worked at a bank in Geneva. He told her his family was "in the food business."
They were married in 1966 and returned to Pittsburgh where his family ran the giant H. J. Heinz food company. He was elected to the US House of Representatives in 1971, and in 1976 he was elected to the first of three terms in the United States Senate. A Republican, he wrote a burning diatribe against some of the causes backed by young House member John Kerry.)
Several years later, in 1991, he was killed when his plane collided with a Sun Oil Company helicopter over a Philadelphia suburb. The senator, his pilot and copilot, and both of Sun's helicopter pilots were killed. He was survived by his wife, Teresa, and their three young sons. Four years later, having inherited Heinz's $500 million fortune, she married Senator John Forbes Kerry, the liberal then-junior senator from Massachusetts. She became a registered Democrat and the process of her radicalization was set in motion.
Heinz Kerry is not shy about telling people that she required Kerry to sign a prenuptial agreement before they were married. John Kerry may not have check writing privileges on the Heinz catsup and pickle fortune, but he is certainly a willing and uncomplaining beneficiary of it.
A lot of hard-earned money, made through many years of hawking catsup, mustard, and pickles has fallen into the hands of two people who despise successful entrepreneurship and who believe in the confiscatory redistribution of wealth.
So how does Mrs. Heinz Kerry spend John Heinz's money?
Just one example: According to the G2 Bulletin, an online intelligence newsletter of WorldNetDaily, in the years between 1995-2001 she gave more than $4 million to an organization called the Tides Foundation. And what does the Tides Foundation do with John Heinz's money?
They support numerous antiwar groups, including Ramsey Clark's International Action Center. Clark has offered to defend Saddam Hussein when he's tried.
They support the Democratic Justice Fund, a joint venture of the Tides Foundation and billionaire hate-monger George Soros. The Democratic Justice Fund seeks to ease restrictions on Muslim immigration from "terrorist" states.
They support the Council for American-Islamic Relations, whose leaders are known to have close ties to the t errorist group, Hamas.
They support the National Lawyers Guild, organized as a communist front during the Cold War era. One of their attorneys, Lynne Stewart, has been arrested for helping a client, Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, communicate with terror cells in Egypt. He is the convicted mastermind of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
They support the "Barrio Warriors," a radical Hispanic group whose primary goal is to return all of Arizona, California, New Mexico, and Texas to Mexico.
These are but a few of the radical groups that benefit, through the anonymity provided by the Tides Foundation, from the generosity of our would-be first lady, the wealthy widow of Republican senator Jo hn Heinz, and now the wife of the Democratic senator who aspires to be the 44th President of the United States.
Aiding and supporting our enemies is not good for America, regardless of your political views.
If voters will open their eyes, educate themselves and see the real Teresa Heinz Kerry, they will not appreciate her position as ultra rich fairy godmother of the radical left. They will not want to imagine her laying her head on a pillow each night inches away from the President of the United States.
Hopefully they love this country enough to decide that the only way these two will ever be allowed into the White House is with an engraved invitation in hand.
Let everyone know these people are unfit to represent this great nation. The uninformed will never hear the truth from the press, who wants Kerry elected!
Those who buy the Kerry facade, beware what you vote for - - - you may regret that you got it!
In God We Trust

AzDon
08-23-2004, 09:10 PM
At least she is not owned by the Bin Laden family as GWB is!

steelcomp
08-23-2004, 09:15 PM
This post borders on namecalling, but actually makes implications about the guy's preparedness to debate.... How would you know that?
Hey, good one, Don!!! Boy, you really got him on the ropes!!! Keep it up!!!
Man, that was brutal!!! :eek:

steelcomp
08-23-2004, 09:24 PM
At least she is not owned by the Bin Laden family as GWB is!
God, Don, that's so PATHETICALLY weak. Man, I'm glad you're not sticking up for me!
Have you ever tried to offer an original opinion? You sound like you're right off NPR!
C'mon...you can do better than that! What evidence do you have to offer that can substanciate your claim? Without cutting and pasting. In your own words.

INXS
08-23-2004, 09:29 PM
my bad..............over the fence, but he kept the ones they are argueing about..............I am confused.................... :220v:
Beddolas, I'm confused to! kerry got something like 8 medals in less then four months of combat! They say that's the highest metal to combat time ratio in our countrys history. How come he will not bring these point up? The liberal media is silent on this fact too. Maybe one of you kerry Kool Ade drinkers can explain why! :crossx:

Dr. Eagle
08-23-2004, 09:33 PM
Beddolas, I'm confused to! kerry got something like 8 medals in less then four months of combat! They say that's the highest metal to combat time ratio in our countrys history. How come he will not bring these point up? The liberal media is silent on this fact too. Maybe one of you kerry Kool Ade drinkers can explain why! :crossx:
Even though I'm not a Kerry Kool Aid drinker... I think I can explain. See those were THROW AWAY medals... not REAL ones... :rolleyes:

AzDon
08-23-2004, 09:51 PM
God, Don, that's so PATHETICALLY weak. Man, I'm glad you're not sticking up for me!
Have you ever tried to offer an original opinion? You sound like you're right off NPR!
C'mon...you can do better than that! What evidence do you have to offer that can substanciate your claim? Without cutting and pasting. In your own words.
The claim is that GWB's Texas oil company was financed by the Bin Laden family and this financing was arranged by Bush's Texas ANG buddy James R. Bath who was the American financial representative for the Bin Laden Family.
The reference for this info is the book "House of Bush, House of Saud"

steelcomp
08-23-2004, 10:06 PM
The claim is that GWB's Texas oil company was financed by the Bin Laden family and this financing was arranged by Bush's Texas ANG buddy James R. Bath who was the American financial representative for the Bin Laden Family.
The reference for this info is the book "House of Bush, House of Saud"
So you make assinine sarcastic statements using information based on a "claim" from an author of a book who none of us know? I would imagine if you were reading it, it wasn't a pro Bush piece of literature. I don't mean that in an insulting way...we all tend to read things that support our ideals and interests. My point is that the authors of such books are usually pushing their agenda, and are seldom objective. This is what I mean about parroting. You have NO idea what the circumstances are or were regarding the oil deal, nor will you ever!

AzDon
08-23-2004, 10:41 PM
You asked for a published reference and I gave you a title....I have not personally read the book but I assume it's accuracy based on the fact that if it's info were libelous, I would expect that wealthy folks like the Bushes or the Saudi Royals would sue in a heartbeat!
I don't suspect the book was written by Rush Limbaugh....Sorry to disappoint you!

Jeanyus
08-24-2004, 02:44 AM
You asked for a published reference and I gave you a title....I have not personally read the book but I assume it's accuracy based on the fact that if it's info were libelous, I would expect that wealthy folks like the Bushes or the Saudi Royals would sue in a heartbeat!
I don't suspect the book was written by Rush Limbaugh....Sorry to disappoint you!
So what you are saying is, if someone writes a book and nobody gets sued, then the book has to be true. Why is it that some people believe that the solution to everything is a lawsuit. I would think that if any president in history sued everone that wrote something that was not true about them, they would have a staff of 10,000 lawers working full time, just to keep up.
Well I got to go now, a flying saucer just landed in my front yard, and a bunch of aliens are coming out, I want to give them some cookies. Hope they don't try to probe me. I read about this stuff in a book. Hope I don't get sued.

Rexone
08-24-2004, 03:17 AM
I saw a flying saucer last evening too.
On the underside it had printed "John & John will save the US from the dastardly conspiring Bush & everything will be free and roses will grow wild throughout America".

MagicMtnDan
08-24-2004, 05:05 AM
Hey AzDon, since you believe whatever any book says, why don't you start posting about what's written in this one?
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0895260174.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
"O'Neill concludes "Whether Kerry's dispatching of a fleeing, wounded, armed or unarmed teenage enemy was in accordance with the customs of war, it is very clear that many Vietnam veterans and most Swiftees do not consider this action to be the stuff of which medals of any kind are awarded; nor would it even be a good story if told in the cold details of reality. There is no indication that Kerry ever reported that the Viet Cong was wounded and fleeing when dispatched. Likewise, the citation simply ignores the presence of the soldiers and advisors who actually 'captured the enemy weapons' and routed the Viet Cong ... [and] that Kerry attacked a 'numerically superior force in the face of intense fire' is simply false. There was little or no fire after Kerry followed the plan. ... The lone, wounded, fleeing young Viet Cong in a loincloth was hardly a force superior to the heavily armed Swift Boat and its crew and the soldiers carried aboard."
source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39826

v-drive
08-24-2004, 05:24 AM
In my mind I don't like Kerry,his ugly mean wife or his little weazel running mate. I have always voted the person and not the party. I went to vietnam also and have a few medals. I don't flaunt them or brag about them but every 10 years or so I run across them in the little momento box that I have of my life. I was 21 when I came home and although I wasn't spit at like some vets I still remember watching that on television. I thought then that we were doing something unpopular but it was something that needed doing. Today I am 56 and I was just thinking about my tour of duty and I remember kerry in washington protesting with Hanoi Jane and I keep thinking,He threw his medals away,he threw them away. These medals that I now hold dear to my heart and look at as a part of my lifes growth he no longer has. It doesn't matter what he does he committed that act. Now he is running for office and using his "medals" to make himself look better in your eyes. How many of you would allow someone to spit in your face? Not Me! I think the nickname Flipper fits him to a T............V-drive

Essex502
08-24-2004, 05:28 AM
Maybe he did, but the fact is he still did condemn it and said it shouldn't be on the air.
The ad has been running how long and only yesterday went on the record as saying it should be pulled?

Essex502
08-24-2004, 05:30 AM
572, You are having a war of wits with a person that brings no ammo to the fight. He is trying to be the next in the LAKE PIRATE line of baiters. Call a seize fire or finish him with facts. He will do his best to cut and paste his way out of it but to no avail. Next tactic we'll be name calling or insults. Grab some popcorn and watch.
Bush '04!
Fock off A$$hole! J/K...this is the spirit of debate...I don't quibble that Bush is probably the best of two weak choices for President but there are many, many areas where the present administration has been involved in less than stellar performance.
BTW...I cut and paste as much as the next to enlighten you as to what others are also saying about the same issue.

Essex502
08-24-2004, 05:32 AM
It seems that you're accusing John Kerry of the wealth of his wife...an inheritance is NOT community property in most if not all states. Should they divorce he's back to not much.
Following is a brief backround on Mrs. John Kerry.
Maria Teresa Thiersten Simoes-Ferreira Heinz Kerry. Married Senator Kerry in 1995. She only took his name eighteen months ago and she is an "interesting" paradox of conflicts.
If you thought John Kerry was scary, he doesn't hold a candle to his wife! Maria Teresa Thiersten Simoes-Ferreira Heinz Kerry was born in Mozambique, the daughter of a Portuguese physician, was educated in Switzerland and South Africa. Fluent in five languages, she was working as a United Nat ions interpreter in Geneva in the mid-60's when she met a "handsome" young American, H. John Heinz, III, who worked at a bank in Geneva. He told her his family was "in the food business."
They were married in 1966 and returned to Pittsburgh where his family ran the giant H. J. Heinz food company. He was elected to the US House of Representatives in 1971, and in 1976 he was elected to the first of three terms in the United States Senate. A Republican, he wrote a burning diatribe against some of the causes backed by young House member John Kerry.)
Several years later, in 1991, he was killed when his plane collided with a Sun Oil Company helicopter over a Philadelphia suburb. The senator, his pilot and copilot, and both of Sun's helicopter pilots were killed. He was survived by his wife, Teresa, and their three young sons. Four years later, having inherited Heinz's $500 million fortune, she married Senator John Forbes Kerry, the liberal then-junior senator from Massachusetts. She became a registered Democrat and the process of her radicalization was set in motion.
Heinz Kerry is not shy about telling people that she required Kerry to sign a prenuptial agreement before they were married. John Kerry may not have check writing privileges on the Heinz catsup and pickle fortune, but he is certainly a willing and uncomplaining beneficiary of it.
A lot of hard-earned money, made through many years of hawking catsup, mustard, and pickles has fallen into the hands of two people who despise successful entrepreneurship and who believe in the confiscatory redistribution of wealth.
So how does Mrs. Heinz Kerry spend John Heinz's money?
Just one example: According to the G2 Bulletin, an online intelligence newsletter of WorldNetDaily, in the years between 1995-2001 she gave more than $4 million to an organization called the Tides Foundation. And what does the Tides Foundation do with John Heinz's money?
They support numerous antiwar groups, including Ramsey Clark's International Action Center. Clark has offered to defend Saddam Hussein when he's tried.
They support the Democratic Justice Fund, a joint venture of the Tides Foundation and billionaire hate-monger George Soros. The Democratic Justice Fund seeks to ease restrictions on Muslim immigration from "terrorist" states.
They support the Council for American-Islamic Relations, whose leaders are known to have close ties to the t errorist group, Hamas.
They support the National Lawyers Guild, organized as a communist front during the Cold War era. One of their attorneys, Lynne Stewart, has been arrested for helping a client, Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, communicate with terror cells in Egypt. He is the convicted mastermind of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
They support the "Barrio Warriors," a radical Hispanic group whose primary goal is to return all of Arizona, California, New Mexico, and Texas to Mexico.
These are but a few of the radical groups that benefit, through the anonymity provided by the Tides Foundation, from the generosity of our would-be first lady, the wealthy widow of Republican senator Jo hn Heinz, and now the wife of the Democratic senator who aspires to be the 44th President of the United States.
Aiding and supporting our enemies is not good for America, regardless of your political views.
If voters will open their eyes, educate themselves and see the real Teresa Heinz Kerry, they will not appreciate her position as ultra rich fairy godmother of the radical left. They will not want to imagine her laying her head on a pillow each night inches away from the President of the United States.
Hopefully they love this country enough to decide that the only way these two will ever be allowed into the White House is with an engraved invitation in hand.
Let everyone know these people are unfit to represent this great nation. The uninformed will never hear the truth from the press, who wants Kerry elected!
Those who buy the Kerry facade, beware what you vote for - - - you may regret that you got it!
In God We Trust
I don't find her scary...at least she hasn't written and published soft core porn like Cheney's old lady. :D

Seadog
08-24-2004, 05:36 AM
That scum sucking ambulance chaser Edwards calls Bush every name under the sun and accuses him of supporting lies against Kerry by third parties, while ignoring the attack ads that compared Bush with Hitler and accusing Bush of every problem that the Democrats have created.
Let's look at facts that are well documented.
Kerry accused all the Vietnam vets of atrocities, while ignoring the atrocities committed by the VC and NVA troops.
Kerry's mentor is Ted Kennedy who is an alcoholic. In an rum and coke soaked moment, he murdered a young women he was trying to screw while his wife was home pregnant. In trying to flee a police officer because he was driving without a license, he went off a bridge. He got out and walked back to the lodge, ignoring the girl that was with him. She was trapped in the car for several hours before drowning. Kennedy then tried to blame the girl for the accident, had his driver's license renewed secretly and hid from the authorities until he could not be tested.
John Edwards made his money suing or threatening to sue doctors, whether or not they had done anything wrong. He was a big user of the 'jackpot lawsuit' technique where you sue a lot of doctors for amounts that cause the insurance companies to pay rather than fight. Then the insurance rates skyrocket and we as the consumers pay for his lavish lifestyle.
The Democrats have accused the Republicans of being the reason for every reform bill that has failed, while it is their votes that are the reason.
John Kerry has attacked Bush on several occasions for actions that John Kerry has gone on record supporting. His camp has yet to espouse any meaningful changes or program. His campaign has been strictly to attack Bush's character.

Rexone
08-24-2004, 05:37 AM
Kerry is just a dick that'll say whatever he needs to to get elected. "Even" if his medals are legit and earned, he should not be using them at the level he is to flaunt and be a selling point in this election. Those medals (even if earned) are not going to make or not make him a good president.
As I stated in the other Bush thread, all these politicians better wake up and pay attention to what's important before we start seeing mushroom clouds in America. They are f'ing up bad imo by leaving our borders open and not using the full force of the US military to crack down here at home on the terrorists already in this country and those who continue to enter this country.
But they'd rather debate these damn medals all over the media like a bunch of spoiled kids. Like that's an important election issue or issue of America. Stupid bastards. They are all pissin me off. Wake up you idiot politicians...there is shit to do that's kinda important right now.
I gotta go have a bran muffin.

572Daytona
08-24-2004, 05:45 AM
The ad has been running how long and only yesterday went on the record as saying it should be pulled?
No, read my original quote, he condemned it on 8/12 when asked about it shortly after it came out. It's the media that kept spinning the fact that he hadn't condmened it and even now that he's done it again, all the dems are saying is too little too late. They don't really care that he did it, all they want to do is to shift focus from Kerry's problems and try to make them Bush's

Essex502
08-24-2004, 05:46 AM
Kerry is just a dick that'll say whatever he needs to to get elected. "Even" if his medals are legit and earned, he should not be using them at the level he is to flaunt and be a selling point in this election. Those medals (even if earned) are not going to make or not make him a good president.
As I stated in the other Bush thread, all these politicians better wake up and pay attention to what's important before we start seeing mushroom clouds in America. They are f'ing up bad imo by leaving our borders open and not using the full force of the US military to crack down here at home on the terrorists already in this country and those who continue to enter this country.
But they'd rather debate these damn medals all over the media like a bunch of spoiled kids. Like that's an important election issue or issue of America. Stupid bastards. They are all pissin me off. Wake up you idiot politicians...there is shit to do that's kinda important right now.
I gotta go have a bran muffin.
Mike...I actually agree with you on this...the mudslinging is at an all time LOW and the issues should be debated not blatant character assaults by either camp.

Essex502
08-24-2004, 05:52 AM
Now that Bush has spoken out against the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth's attack ad:
(Note OG that it is another cut and paste :D )
Asked about the issue, Bush said, "I think Senator Kerry served admirably and he ought to be proud of his record. But the question is who is best to lead the country in the war on terror? Who can handle the responsibilities of the commander in chief? Who's got a clear vision of the risks that the country faces?"
He actually raised a good point that Kerry now needs to answer...who can lead the nation better on a war on terror. We'll see how Kerry answers that. But...will the war records of both candidates now become a moot issue?

steelcomp
08-24-2004, 06:10 AM
I don't find her scary...at least she hasn't written and published soft core porn like Cheney's old lady.
__________________
Porn...now THERE'S something you probably DO read! And it's not surprisisg that she dosen't scare you, you probably support the same groups. And you can compare aiding and supporting american enemy groups with soft porn?
That's a typical lib! You're a sick f**k!

Essex502
08-24-2004, 06:29 AM
Porn...now THERE'S something you probably DO read! And it's not surprisisg that she dosen't scare you, you probably support the same groups. And you can compare aiding and supporting american enemy groups with soft porn?
That's a typical lib! You're a sick f**k!
Your name calling is nothing more than juvenile foolishness. The porn reference is to the middle america values so highly placed on the administration and the duplicitous statements by the 'blind" supporters.
Nope...I don't support the groups that Heinz-Kerry supports.

Freak
08-24-2004, 07:04 AM
That scum sucking ambulance chaser Edwards calls Bush every name under the sun and accuses him of supporting lies against Kerry by third parties, while ignoring the attack ads that compared Bush with Hitler and accusing Bush of every problem that the Democrats have created.
Let's look at facts that are well documented.
Kerry accused all the Vietnam vets of atrocities, while ignoring the atrocities committed by the VC and NVA troops.
Kerry's mentor is Ted Kennedy who is an alcoholic. In an rum and coke soaked moment, he murdered a young women he was trying to screw while his wife was home pregnant. In trying to flee a police officer because he was driving without a license, he went off a bridge. He got out and walked back to the lodge, ignoring the girl that was with him. She was trapped in the car for several hours before drowning. Kennedy then tried to blame the girl for the accident, had his driver's license renewed secretly and hid from the authorities until he could not be tested.
John Edwards made his money suing or threatening to sue doctors, whether or not they had done anything wrong. He was a big user of the 'jackpot lawsuit' technique where you sue a lot of doctors for amounts that cause the insurance companies to pay rather than fight. Then the insurance rates skyrocket and we as the consumers pay for his lavish lifestyle.
The Democrats have accused the Republicans of being the reason for every reform bill that has failed, while it is their votes that are the reason.
John Kerry has attacked Bush on several occasions for actions that John Kerry has gone on record supporting. His camp has yet to espouse any meaningful changes or program. His campaign has been strictly to attack Bush's character.
LOL. Your definatly not afraid to speak your mind SeaDog. LOL

Jeanyus
08-24-2004, 08:07 AM
I was hoping we could get Ted Kennedy to give Hillery a ride, lets say sometime before November 2008.

Essex502
08-24-2004, 08:33 AM
Now Hillary....there's a biatch I could vote for...NOT!

Seadog
08-24-2004, 10:26 AM
I'll vote for Hilary..................To be the first kicked off the planet.

Jordy
08-24-2004, 10:33 AM
He threw his medals away,he threw them away.
So I wonder if he ordered up replacement medals under the guise of "losing" them or if he's going to sue the first person who asks to physically see them? :cool:

572Daytona
08-24-2004, 10:37 AM
Actually from what I read he never actually threw his medals, they are still on the wall in his office or at least were. I've alternatively heard that he only threw his ribbons or he actually threw someone else's medals. He was a liar even back then apparently.