TPC "Sneak Previews"

[Hotcrusader76]

http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/blue850_450.jpg
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/blue850a_450.jpg
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/dom_450.jpg
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/dom1_450.jpg
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/dom2_450.jpg
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/domtop_450.jpg
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/red4150_450.jpg

[USMC1812]

Look great Ty! How are mine comming along?
Doug

[Jetty 468]

Thank's I needed that ! Look's first rate ,can't wait . eek!

[Schiada76]

I can't wait to fondle them. eek!
[ March 22, 2003, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: BradP ]

[Havasu Hangin']

Those look great.
Ty- when I had my carb tuned by C&J, they installed a cross-tube (instead of "J" tubes) that links the overflows, and it has a slot on top. They told me that it was necessary to prevent signal from being pulled from the float bowls.
Thoughts?

[502procharger]

Ty, your work is immaculate. :D

[Infomaniac]

:D :D :D :D :D

[21rayson]

they look sweet if they perform as good as they look that is even better. very nice. :) :) :)

[Hotcrusader76]

BTW- The quality of these photos are real shoddy. As soon as I release the articles on the Dominator and Quadrajet hopely my "Macro" photo guy will show you some of the finer details/mods.
I will also be posting the blueprint schematics of the carbs as well. A full documented blueprint is a new service we offer on all Stage 3 carbs provided to you via Priority mail before the carburetor even arrives.
Thank you for the kind comments everyone. I look forward to their performance feedback. I know aka"BradP" was switching from dual HP830s to Dual 3-circuit Dominators for his blown BBC and aka"jetty468" was getting a face-lift with his 850DP. I am very confident that all my ***boat customers will be satisfied with the quality and professionalism put into every detail of the build.
Once again, I look forward to everybodies response.
~Ty

[Hotcrusader76]

Havasu Hangin':
Those look great.
Ty- when I had my carb tuned by C&J, they installed a cross-tube (instead of "J" tubes) that links the overflows, and it has a slot on top. They told me that it was necessary to prevent signal from being pulled from the float bowls.
Thoughts? That mod is most likely due to the fact the launch was hard and caused fuel to spill out. I would only perform that modification if the floats were high and there was an existing issue with fuel spill over. Most off-road trucks use this trick on the Holleys because the bowls are normally 1850 style and fuel slosh is worse than with a Dominator style bowl.
As far as signal goes? I have never heard of such a thing. The vent tube is just that, a vent to atmospheric pressure. Not even with a blowthrough carburetor does signal become an issue. The only signal that should matter is within the venturi/booster region.
Maybe there was a misunderstanding on how they explained it to you. I know of two racers who use this trick on inline 660s and it was only because the money wasn't there to overhaul them and add longer angled vents.
I will call Marvin over at QFT and see if he has heard of such a thing being done for an improvement in balanceing a "signal". He's an ex-Holley engineer who has been my guideing light with part(s) searching.
~Ty
[ March 22, 2003, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: Hotcrusader76 ]

[Hotcrusader76]

These are the before and after shots....I just couldn't resist, sorry Brad!
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/dom.jpg
Wheeewww.....Looks like I saved the day on this set of carbs...LOL
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/dom1.jpg
Notice the addition of adjustable air-bleeds. That really separates the old skool Dominators from the new ones, but I've got ya covered on that one. Easy day...
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/dom2.jpg
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/dom3.jpg
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/dom_450.jpg
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/dom1_450.jpg
[ March 22, 2003, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: Hotcrusader76 ]

[Eric455]

just shoot ya a 5 * for the great job...
looks swet
eric

[Havasu Hangin']

Hotcrusader76:
Maybe there was a misunderstanding on how they explained it to you.Well, Ty...I know you're going to find this hard to believe, but I have been wrong before. http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/happy/1/happy06.gif
Either way, it was a mod they recommended, and I was curious as I've never seen it on other Holleys.
Grerat looking carbs, partner.

[Schiada76]

Well now that you've posted before and after pics I can't see very much difference. I want my money back. :D

[Hotcrusader76]

I will gladly take them back...LOL...
Everyday this week in the shop has been blessed with their overwhelming presence in size. They are making the fleet of double pumpers I have look like webers.
I really enjoy the Dominator builds, new and old, because of their size and objective in a race application....and that's to kick some ass while sucking the gas!
Forget 6 miles to the gallon...it's more like 6 gallons to the 0.01 mile. :D

[Schiada76]

How many mph did the fufu add? I'm guessing at least twenty five and probably more like thirty. If you polish the main body instead of powder coating how much horsepower do you gain? If I put a TPC sticker on the scoop do I get a better holeshot? Maybe Info or Fiat would know if you don't. :D

[Hotcrusader76]

TPC stickers add about 3 Hot babes to the mix on the average, with only a 2 cases of beer loss in portability.
The TPC "fufu".....priceless... :D

[Jordy]

You're only kidding yourself... :rolleyes:

[78Eliminator]

Hotcrusader76:
TPC stickers add about 3 Hot babes to the mix on the average, with only a 2 cases of beer loss in portability.
The TPC "fufu".....priceless... :D Send me some of those stickers then because the TPC carbs didn't do anything but flood my engine out.

[Schiada76]

Say What? jawdrop
Wasn't there a fire invloved there somewhere? :D

[78Eliminator]

RiverDave:
Flood your engine out?
RD It's a phenomenon that occurs when you have carbs with floats that are not air tight. They fill with fuel, sink and never close the needle/seat valves, then the fuel bowls overflow, then raw fuel pukes right into your engine and floods the motor. This was my problem before the TPC rebuild, and wouldn't you know it, it was the same problem after I spent $1500.00 to have TPC rebuild them.
[ March 24, 2003, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: 78Eliminator ]

[MsHotCrusader]

Man you guys are really bored.... :rolleyes:

[78Eliminator]

RiverDave:
His Carbs sure look bitchen, but being that I know very little about Carbs, I was assuming that the looks reflected pride in workmanship and as naive as it sounds I just assumed everything else was bitchen as well.
RD Yes, they are the coolest looking carbs I have ever seen. They did not work when I received them, however, and I never received a refund for having to rebuild them myself again once received.
He used the same floats that were already in the carbs before the rebuild. The leaky floats were what caused me all my issues in the first place (even the engine fire). When I got the $1500 carbs back, they had the same issues (same original bad floats) and could have caused another engine fire. Originally I just wanted them rebuilt, but I was talked into billet base plates, metering blocks, chrome fuel bowls, etc. I thought that replacing everything would yield a product that would give me trouble free operation. Instead, I was chasing down demons for just about the entire boating season. I have a huge list of other things that were wrong, but I think Ty might have learned a lot from his experiences from me (at my expense). I don't think Ty is a bad guy at all. He's nice, will talk your ear off and might have evolved, but I don't think I was treated fairly. I threw away my main bodies that he redid and have carbs that I have built from the ground up myself. I believe I was one of Ty's first clients and I had very high expectations, so when I had to redo all of his work, I was very disappointed. Since then, I have read two holley books, bought air/fuel meters, specialized carb tools and feel pretty good about my own abilities. I just wish I would have gone that route from the start.

[superV]

eek! Sounds like Ty has some PR to do! wink

[Blown 472]

Send your carb to the carb shop, it is in so cal and they do a damn nice job, not all shiney and shit they just work, I had an 850 that was in the back of a truck and the throttle blades were stuck, they went thru it and it ran great, as a matter of fact I still have it along with another on my blown motor.

[78Eliminator]

RiverDave:
but I was under the impression that it was a fuel pump issue that Froggy fixed and it worked afterwards.
RD You are dead wrong. What happened is I took the boat to Froggy, as he is always up to the challenge. Step one, in his eyes, was to pressurize the fuel system and see what kind of pressure was hitting the needle/seat valves. They were getting 9 lbs. so he decided to turn down the pressure to 7 lbs to be on the safe side. When he adjusted the pressure, the regulater came apart and would no longer hold pressure. I sent the regulator to BG Fuel, they rebuilt it, and when I put it back on and set it to 7 lbs, the carbs still flooded....

[Blown 472]

Thats cool, to me it is a waste of money, I am not into shiney stuff, no crome, polished nothing, too much work and it dont make it go any faster. :D

[78Eliminator]

Blown 472:
Thats cool, to me it is a waste of money, I am not into shiney stuff, no crome, polished nothing, too much work and it dont make it go any faster. :D I agree. I wouln't even use AN fittings if they weren't so easy to use.....
With them, I can yank the engine in 15 minutes...

[Blown 472]

case in point. http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/19mvc-001xxf-med.jpg

[78Eliminator]

You know you're dead on serious if all your hardware is satin instead of polished. Satin dissipates heat more efficiently.

[Jordy]

Blown 472:
Send your carb to the carb shop, not all shiney and shit they just work. Something to be said for that. Perhaps they have an air fuel meter to aid in the fine tuning dial in, especially in situations where the customer doesn't know all the specifics of his/her motor.
Although, I found that knowing all the information doesn't make a difference with some shops. wink

[Froggystyle]

jordanpaulk:
Something to be said for that. Perhaps they have an air fuel meter to aid in the fine tuning dial in, especially in situations where the customer doesn't know all the specifics of his/her motor.
Although, I found that knowing all the information doesn't make a difference with some shops. wink Yeah Jordy, I know what you mean. With some shops, they can't even dial in your motor if you have a bunch of corrosion in your tanks and lines! I mean, what is a little water in the gas, huh?
Funny story. I knew this guy once, who had a bunch of water and corrosion in his lines, which ruined his carbs among other things. Plus, he had a bad regulator, his timing was way off because he had a bunch of different timing marks on his balancer and stuff, and to top it all off, he was impatient with the builder and needed his carbs back together for an impromptu river trip. But, they were waiting on parts, so he decided to use his old floats in the meantime. THEN, when he re-used his old floats while they waited for the new parts, they went bad! Can you imagine the headaches? So, with bad floats, water in the fuel and a gobs of corrosion throughout, he went to tune his carbs in and couldn't keep the boat running. Weird, huh? The carbs must just be junk I figure.
What is really strange is, this builder didn't use an air fuel meter either. I would blame the lack of air/fuel meter. That was probably at least as much to blame for the problems as the rest of the train wreck.
The best part is, my buddy got all pissed about the carbs not performing under these ideal circumstances, and now wants his money back. The carb builder had the balls to offer a new rebuild and update free of charge instead! I mean, why should it be my buddies fault if he brought carbs to a builder and then bolted them on a motor with a lot of problems? Some sob story huh?
Boy oh boy, I would hate to be that carb guy if that story ever made it on the internet. To think that spending a bunch of money on carburetors won't solve all of your fuel delivery problems. I mean, you would think that spending some serious coin on carbs would get all of the other problems solved too, right?

[Jordy]

You know Wes, that's a bummer of a story. However I was making reference to a comment made by the "Carb Guru" where he said it wasn't necessary to have an air/fuel meter to dial a carb in if you knew all the specifics of the motor.
I know a guy who did know all the specifics, other than a vacuum reading, and relayed them to a carb shop and was just trying to get a baseline for jetting to get through the season and then send the carb in for a prettying up. That shop was no help at all and needless to say, didn't get to do a rebuild. Shit happens I suppose. Kind of a shame with all the free advertising (spam) that this shop gets to use.
I'm kind of curious on one thing though, a customer has a bad experience with a carb shop and Trident Boats steps in. Hypothetically speaking, if someone has a bad experience with Trident Boats somewhere down the line, is TPC Racing going to step in with sob stories about boat building?
Jordy :D

[Froggystyle]

Good question Jordy.
If, in the instance that I was to have a bad experience with a client, as will inevitably happen, I don't plan on it reaching a fever pitch, nor do I anticipate the need to do damage control. Funny thing that you mention that Trident boats is stepping in. I don't see it that way. No more than if you owned some company and you expressed your opinion in this matter. You would be accurate in saying that I am stepping in a little personally however.
But to answer your question, yes. If in the instance that I was to have a displeased client step up and start bashing me, and Ty were to know both sides of the story, from both parties, I feel comfortable that A) He would make his own decision regarding the outcome, B) He would tell me if he felt there was anything left to be done from my end (which by the way I did) and C) Defend me publically if he felt my business or myself were being unfairly degraded as a result of a public forum.
Ty has a new business. He is good at his job, and he has a whole lot of very pleased clients, and one not so much.
The most important thing is, Ty recognized that his client was upset, and 8 months later after it had come to a head went hugely out of his way to resolve the issue, to the degree where he offered, at no expense whatsoever to the client, to rebuild the carbs again, powdercoat them again with whatever color he wanted, boost reference them for the new supercharged application, add some new high speed booster deal, and provide him with a documented blueprint of the entire process. This offer was met with the finger.
In my personal as well as business opinion, this is a client unwilling to be satisfied, and that sucks, because I know both parties, and think that this is an adequate resolution. The displeased client would rather be a martyr with a beef than a happy client with two new carbs.
I am upset about the whole situation, and I said I would stay out of it unless it got into an attack on the business in question. It is all fun and games until you affect someone's livelihood.
Let's take this to e-mail, shall we?

[Blown 472]

I thought it was all fun til someone lost an eye. :D :p

[Jordy]

Froggystyle:
Ty recognized that his client was upset, and 8 months later after it had come to a head went hugely out of his way to resolve the issue, to the degree where he offered, at no expense whatsoever to the client, to rebuild the carbs again, powdercoat them again with whatever color he wanted, boost reference them for the new supercharged application, add some new high speed booster deal, and provide him with a documented blueprint of the entire process. This offer was met with the finger.Suppose Ty did offer to make it 100% correct (in his opinion mind you) to a customer whom he had previously raked over the coals and pretty much dropped the ball on in several serious customer service areas, none of which were TPC's fault as I recall. Everything was a fluke Holley supply deal that had never happened before, but that's neither here nor there. Now, 8 months later after a severe dry ass ramming and plenty of time to think about it, suddenly and miraculously enough, TPC wants to make good? I'd give him the finger too, especially knowing where the offer was coming from (read Wes/Trident Boats, and you are one in the same now, like it or not). Had he addressed these issues 8 months ago, I might see fit to let him have another try if he was working on my stuff, but to have someone else goad him into retribution, not a chance. After the first ordeal, why would someone want to subject themselves to it again?
And as far as messing with someone's livelihood? That's a pretty weak argument when he parades (spams) his work all over the boards. I'd say that opens him up to criticism. Being in business opens him up to criticism, especially after the way this particular incident was handled, among others. He does build a pretty carb though.
I do find it rather ironic that he has 78Eliminator in his testimonial section on the TPC webpage with the satisfied customers. Not to mention the lead in bullshit statement of "Quite a ride at 6500RPM!" Nothing like a little exageration to get business. :D
[ March 26, 2003, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: jordanpaulk ]

[miller19j]

I don’t really know the whole story so I am going to stay out of the debate except for one part.
Jordy brings up a very good point (did I really say that!). TPC benefits from all the free advertising he is getting on the boards. So in all fairness a dissatisfied customer should have the opportunity to voice his opinion on the same free boards.
The future customers will weigh the information and make their decision. It is a two way street. If you want the free exposure the customer is also free to critique your work.

[Jordy]

miller19j:
Jordy brings up a very good point (did I really say that!).That's a couple times in the same year!!! Yeah. Miller's coming around. :D

[Blown 472]

miller19j:
I don’t really know the whole story so I am going to stay out of the debate except for one part.
Jordy brings up a very good point (did I really say that!). TPC benefits from all the free advertising he is getting on the boards. So in all fairness a dissatisfied customer should have the opportunity to voice his opinion on the same free boards.
The future customers will weigh the information and make their decision. It is a two way street. If you want the free exposure the customer is also free to critique your work. Not just here but the spam is on mopar sites as well.
[ March 26, 2003, 09:17 AM: Message edited by: Blown 472 ]

[Hotcrusader76]

At this point I will delay the relief the ***boat audience is seeking of the mystery shadowing 78Eliminators complaints about my company. Please stay tuned…
But I will comment on this…
You know Wes, that's a bummer of a story. However I was making reference to a comment made by the "Carb Guru" where he said it wasn't necessary to have an air/fuel meter to dial a carb in if you knew all the specifics of the motor.I still stand behind my statement 100%. From a true Professional standpoint, having an Air-fuel ratio gauge at my shop doesn’t help with “squat” for a client’s motor on the East coast. This is the reason carburetor specialist utilize basic math and the dynamics of the application to determine proper baseline jetting.
On the other hand dialing in a motor, specifically for a Jetboat with water-injected headers doesn’t warrant the use of an oxygen sensor. Now as I stated before taking the motor over to a DYNO would reap large rewards in obtaining max horsepower/torque gains as well as reading spark plugs. That’s all you have on the water vice a vacuum gauge.
I know a guy who did know all the specifics, other than a vacuum reading, and relayed them to a carb shop and was just trying to get a baseline for jetting to get through the season and then send the carb in for a prettying up. Now remember a vacuum gauge only gives real time values. When the clients motor is a “train wreck” before his new carbs are installed, what good is a vacuum gauge?
That shop was no help at all and needless to say, didn't get to do a rebuild. Shit happens I suppose. Justin asked me to rework a set of carburetors two days before a river trip that he had filled back up with the water in the fuel corrosion he claimed to have eliminated. He ruined his new carbs within seconds of restarting his boat. He put all that corrosion right into them, along with a large helping of water it appears.
Kind of a shame with all the free advertising (spam) that this shop gets to use. Perhaps I went about getting the word out the wrong way, but I am not claiming to be a marketing guru. My advice has been met with great enthusiasm though, and I have developed a large client base that has been assisted in their tuning through questions asked directly to me, and I will continue to answer those questions as long as people ask them. There will be a modification in execution from now on though.
I have consulted with my advisors, ***boat moderators and professionals alike and have come to a resolution to this small complaint. I will no longer post pictures on this site or start off threads starting with TPC. This will alleviate any sort of insults that some of you have over free “SPAM”. What I am doing though is sending out a CDROM with all their project pics (BTW I love snapping photos of my work, being modest here, LOL) I am including a photographic buildup of every carburetor to my clients on CD rom from now on. Those pictures are theirs to do what they wish with.
I'm kind of curious on one thing though, a customer has a bad experience with a carb shop and Trident Boats steps in. Hypothetically speaking, if someone has a bad experience with Trident Boats somewhere down the line, is TPC Racing going to step in with sob stories about boat building?
Jordy Well I would say yes to that statement if I had discovered that his clients boat was screwed up before it ever went to him. I reserve the right to make my own decision on the situation, and provide whatever criticism of his work may be justified, as well as and criticism of the upset client. I have confidence in his abilities, considering that Mr. Inskeep (Froggy) is currently working some of the finer details to my hull and trailer. Not to mention his work is flawless and his business practices encompass all the aspects of “Honor, Courage, and commitment”. I follow suit as well since that’s the foundation to our success as professionals.
Thank you for your interest, and I appreciate your protection of a fellow hot boater, but understand that every effort has been made to resolve this situation, and it has met with a brick wall. Justin wants a full refund, on carburetors that were documented as done properly, and he ruined himself. That is an unacceptable request, and the only thing that I have not agreed to do.
Good day,

[Froggystyle]

RiverDave:
How's Trident involved with TPC carbs?
RD It isn't. I am no more involved with TPC than I am with any other vendor that I anticipate working with or have worked with. If I knew both sides of a Rex Marine bash, I would chime in just as readily.
I just know, near completely, both sides of the story, and have personally worked on the boat after the new carbs were installed.
Jordy, regarding the 8 month downtime... The result of their last tuning session was that the boat had greater issues, and they needed to be resolved before any more tuning could take place. Some of the greater issues were resolved in my garage the day after the failed tuning session, but my advice to Justin after seeing the bad timing, LOTS of water in the fuel, LOTS of corrosion in the lines, regulator and other components, was to replace the bad regulator (that also dumped corrosion into the new carbs), remove and re-clean the carbs, time it properly, remove, drain and roll the tanks, replace the fuel filter and lines and start over. His fuel pump was located above his sump by a pretty good amount, and it was not getting a prime. That had to be relocated down as I recall. He also had a bad wiring connection on the fuel pump, which I repaired for him right then. I told him then, after never having talked to Ty before that the carbs were not the problem. One little tiny spot of that oxidation through a needle and seat valve is absolutely enough to ruin one. I have done it before.
Ty has had the floats waiting, as well as the rest of the tuning session that he owes Justin. Justin has taken this period to get steamed up over the situation, instead of maintaining contact and getting his carbs finished. To this day, I do not know if Justin's boat has been running well enough to do another tuning session. I will promise you this though, if the tanks were not cleaned, and the lines and filter were not replaced, then it is still not ready.
Ty offered to rebuild the carbs last week for free. He offered to boost reference them, do some new mods to help him and baseline them for the new blower. Justin gave him the finger.
I am uninterested at this point. Ty phoned me for some advice with regards to Justin. He knows I worked on his boat, and he asked me what I felt, if anything needed to be done. I told him to offer once and for all to finish the job, and I told him to do it in writing. A couple days later Ty gave Justin what I consider a very attractive offer for the above rebuild, and Justin had the sack to ask for his money back. 8 months later, after never getting the boat cleaned up to the point that they could dial it in, and after several social engagements where they both re-iterated to each other that they need to get together and finish the job, and after pumping gallons of bad gas and corrosion through the new carbs.
You make your own decision. I think Ty has done the right thing, and I am not alone.
[ March 26, 2003, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: Froggystyle ]

[Froggystyle]

RiverDave:
Am I the only one that thinks this thread should no longer be in a tech section?
It is not of a technical nature, it is of a social and business nature.
It belongs in the sandbar or somewhere other then here.
RD That is my last post on the subject, and I agree with you. I think it is a dead issue, as the interested parties have come to conclusion, and the rest is aftermath. I don't think it should move to the sandbar though.
I think any "advice" given regarding this subject should move to e-mailville. This is a private matter between two individuals.

[miller19j]

RiverDave:
Am I the only one that thinks this thread should no longer be in a tech section?
It is not of a technical nature, it is of a social and business nature.
It belongs in the sandbar or somewhere other then here.
RD I disagree! It should stay here and both parties should voice their opinion freely.

[Hotcrusader76]

MillerJ19,
This is not a stomping ground between two people.
The bottom line exists that he was disatisfied with my services, I rogered up, he declined with insult...and this is 8 months after the fact.
I choose to keep this between Justin and I from a "Professional" standpoint, which is how all of my clients are treated.
The story is out and with another post of Mr. Condon's resolution letter from TPC that will be the end to this file.
~Ty

[78Eliminator]

Ty, you are one of the biggest dipshits I have ever met. My motor is a train wreck eh? Then why did it run so well after I rebuilt your shit pile carbs myself. You suck Ty, TPC carbs sucks and I wouldn't strap those hunks of shit on my boat if you paid me. So please refrain from calling my motor a train wreck and casting blame in all directions but your shotty work. I threw your carbs in the trash Ty, doesn't that tell you something about your work? I built my own now with all new parts and a meticulous eye. Want to know what? My boat actually runs and idles and everything! But I still must have a train wreck, right? You're a train wreck yourself buddy. You lie to your customers and yourself so much that you believe it yourself.
[ March 26, 2003, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: 78Eliminator ]

[78Eliminator]

Hotcrusader76:
MillerJ19,
This is not a stomping ground between two people.
The bottom line exists that he was disatisfied with my services, I rogered up, he declined with insult...and this is 8 months after the fact.
I choose to keep this between Justin and I from a "Professional" standpoint, which is how all of my clients are treated.
The story is out and with another post of Mr. Condon's resolution letter from TPC that will be the end to this file.
~Ty Professional would be a refund. Why would I ever want you to touch anything on my motor ever again? YOU SCARE ME! Stay away, and I am done here....

[miller19j]

Hotcrusader76:
MillerJ19,
This is not a stomping ground between two people.
The bottom line exists that he was disatisfied with my services, I rogered up, he declined with insult...and this is 8 months after the fact.
I choose to keep this between Justin and I from a "Professional" standpoint, which is how all of my clients are treated.
The story is out and with another post of Mr. Condon's resolution letter from TPC that will be the end to this file.
~Ty Ty,
Don’t take it personally! I am not taking sides I do not have enough information to make a decision on what happened.
But,
You openly advertise your services on a free and open board “Hot boat forums” so in turn I believe that Justin or any one else satisfied or dissatisfied has the right to openly post their opinion of your work.
No Threats and No Nudity have been posted in this thread so I see no reason to move it.

[78Eliminator]

And Ty, I don't want to talk about this any more with you or Wes, ever. So lets just agree on that, ok? But if you are posting things here in a public forum and my little built in bullshit meter is going off, I am going to post. Sorry, it's just the way I am built. So, thanks for nothing and I hope the profits you made at my expense get you far in your business ventures.

[78Eliminator]

RiverDave:
Miller, I wasn't suggesting locking the thread, or deleting it.
I was simply saying that this isn't "on topic" or of a "technical nature" which is what the "tech" sections are for.
They both would still have the opportunity to respond in another forum.
Doesn't matter to me one way or the other if it's moved or not. It's just this kind of bantering that kills the tech sections.
That's all I was saying.
RD RD, it is technical if it's regarding the quaility of work of someone who is consistently spamming this site.

[miller19j]

RiverDave:
Miller, I wasn't suggesting locking the thread, or deleting it.
I was simply saying that this isn't "on topic" or of a "technical nature" which is what the "tech" sections are for.
They both would still have the opportunity to respond in another forum.
Doesn't matter to me one way or the other if it's moved or not. It's just this kind of bantering that kills the tech sections.
That's all I was saying.
RD That is a good point Dave. Did I really Just say that! What the hell am I thinking today! wink
I guess I am a little sensitive about moderating someone’s opinion. I think that it was based on a tech subject and now has evolved into dissatisfied customer/ supplier conflict. It is probably not completely appropriate to be here but I still think that moving it would be wrong.
I will stay out of it from now on and leave it up to Ty and Justin
I am not trying to offend anyone or take sides here.
Miller(advocate for free speech)19j
[ March 26, 2003, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: miller19j ]

[Infomaniac]

Free advertising from these boards?
The nerve of some people. :rolleyes:

[Hotcrusader76]

Well now everyone can witness the level of insult I have delt with over this issue.
As one of my previous customers stated," I'll be the first to thank and the first to flame a vendor because I believe that "WE ARE THE CUSTOMER" regardless of what some vendors may perceive." In this case I swallowed the pill and took for action a resolve to the matter, regardless of whos right or wrong.
I will post the pictures of the internals of his carburetors when they arrived in shop. Then everyone else can be the judge of it.
My resolution to the matter still stands, but it looks as if Mr. Condon took matters into his own resolve.

[78Eliminator]

Infomaniac:
Free advertising from these boards?
The nerve of some people. :rolleyes: Lets just say that I can speak for everyone when I say that you have contributed a whole lot to this site as far as being a technical reference and a straight shooter. Your engine building threads on HB are some of the best threads I have read. Keep up the good work Info....

[78Eliminator]

Hotcrusader76:
I will post the pictures of the internals of his carburetors when they arrived in shop. Then everyone else can be the judge of it.
Yeah Ty you go and do that. Better also state theat everything that you got, you threw in the trash and replaced. It was a slam dunk. All you had to do was assemble the new parts (except for the main body) and you were done, but you couldn't even do that right. So post away and dig yourself in deeper.
I ask the audience here, what do I have to gain by speaking of my experiences with Ty? What does Ty have to gain; or lose?

[78Eliminator]

RiverDave:
Did you change anything else in that process other then the carbs? Or is it you just rebuilt your carb's and now the boat runs fine?
RD We broke the fuel pressure regulator while we were trying to toubleshoot the carbs so I replaced it. After replacing the fuel pressure regualtor, the carbs still had flooding issues, so THEN I rebuilt them. After the rebuild and discovering the bad floats (they had holes in them), I had no problems. Ty states that he bench tests his carbs (including the float assembly) before he sends them to his customers, but I find that hard to believe after my experience.
You know, I would have let this thing totally rest if I wasn't poked with a stick by Wes and Ty. They both asked what I wanted to resolve this whole thing to be happy and I asked for a full refund. Ty countered with offering to rebuild the carbs again but why would I want that? I am done using him since my bad experience and have became quite proficient since the inception of this project. He insists that he rebuild them. Ever hear the expression "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". Well, I just want my money, no services.
Anyway, I still think he makes a beautiful product, it's just the attention to mechanical detail that is (or perhaps *was*) lacking. Perhaps my experiece was a complete fluke and now he's the man, I don't know. I hope so, for his client's sake. I guess I was asking too much of him to trust that he would really test and inspect everything that went into his finished product.
I just expect that when he hands something back to me, it better damn well work. Especially if the cost of his services would have bought me a couple new dominators.
[ March 26, 2003, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: 78Eliminator ]

[Jordy]

Hotcrusader76:
When the clients motor is a “train wreck” before his new carbs are installed, what good is a vacuum gauge? Funny that you refer to a customer's motor as a train wreck, blame that for all the problems but procede to rape him for $1500. From an ethical standpoint, wouldn't it have been better to have him address his "train wreck" issues before rebuilding his carbs? Although, in your testimonial section you speak of a 6500 rpm pass. Not too bad for a train wreck. Really weak attempt to cover your faulty workmanship.
On an even funnier note, the motor that I was speaking of didn't belong to Justin and it was pretty far from a train wreck. Remember talking to me Ty? I gave you every bit of information I had on my motor and was looking for a baseline suggestion to get through the season before I shipped the carb back to have you "work your magic" on it. Does any of this ring a bell? The only thing I didn't have was a vacuum reading and you said you would figure it out because you had all the information you needed and could work it all out. A week goes by and I talk to you to see what you've come up with. I almost dropped the phone when I hear "Well, where do you think you need to be?" That was the last time I talked to you Ty and I'll Mexi-chrome my carb before I'd let you touch it. This is all in a different time and reference than Justin's deal by the way and I came to my conclusions on my own accord. Although, after talking to you, I did warn him to rethink his decision to let you do his carbs. Hate to say I told you so.
Hopefully all your customer service issues have been addressed and good luck in the future. :D

[schiada96]

How much water was in the tanks and how much fuel pressure???? Just curious not trying to start anything but I have been following this thread.

[78Eliminator]

schiada96:
How much water was in the tanks and how much fuel pressure???? Just curious not trying to start anything but I have been following this thread. Fuel pressure was at 9 lbs and it still is. Water in the tank is an exageration, more like condensation. I still take off my floats and will see a few droplets of water in there every now and then. But nothing major....

[Hotcrusader76]

For the record, what your saying is the corrosion (for a lack of better technical wording) seen in your old metering blocks (pics below) is an exageration?
You contracted me to overhaul your carburetors Mr. Condon. When I discovered this mess while taking them apart, I contacted you immediately, correct? Did I not inform you to clean your other fuel components as well? I know you remember these pics because after you veiwed them you opted to either replace them or upgrade to Billet for the added performance and mainly "pimp" factor and we know which option you took.
Your old components were discarded due to what I call a "total loss". The emulsion circuit (mainwell region for the novice)was non-correctable in order to keep that carburetor properly tuned. As I do with all defective components, they become trash. It is not our policy to return old components to the customer.
If you believe that this white substance just suddenly appeared inside your fuel pump, regulator, and or original carbs but didn't bother to anticipate it coming from your fuel tanks, then I advise that you investigate further.
This white crap was so loaded upside the mainwells, that when your originally ill tuned motor finanlly achieved some fuel suction it nearly blew the top of your scoop. Correct? I know there were some witnesses there that could vouch for that. After that event I assume you then contacted me. Right? For carburetor repair right? That's what remember and that's what I invoiced you. Advise is free and it always emcompasses my scope of knowledge and experience so with that being said, if you would have asked me to ovehaul your "fuel system" then I would have declined.
On a very last note, before this post becomes considered SPAM or is it anti-SPAM:
I will post the letter sent to Mr. Condon in full detail. After that I will no longer entertain this topic as I believe it's no longer resolvable.
I encourage all of my customers that have dealt with my company or any vendor at that to freely express their opinions on services or products they were or were not happy with. I would never damn a person for doing that, but the second the truth becomes misleading and inaccurate, well... All I can say is just be honest because it's in "your" best interest not mine.
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/DSC00017.jpg
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/DSC00018.jpg
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/DSC00019.jpg
http://www.tpcracing.com/images_temp/DSC00020.jpg

[Jordy]

~!
:D
[ March 26, 2003, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: jordanpaulk ]

[Hotcrusader76]

Original "UNEDITED" Resolution letter sent to Mr. Condon
Good afternoon Justin,
I want to personally thank you for your business last year, which has contributed greatly to the success of my company. As a company, we grew leaps and bounds based on a lot of lessons learned from your experience. We focus on carburetors now, and do it very well. I understand that a lot of our growth was to a degree at your expense, and I want to make it right.
Through “***boat.com” I have become aware that you are building a supercharged BBC now. Congratulations! This is a great, logical next step to your passion. This addition warrants a re-calibration in order to maintain proper air-fuel ratios under boost. This combined with the far greater concern of our commitment not being fulfilled to you as a customer I would like to offer you a deal. Let me first explain some of our new modifications and changes.
TPC Racing has begun to offer many new innovative services and features to our carburetors that have been quite successful in increasing the horsepower as well as show potential for the motor they’re destined for.
One of our newest additions is the Braswell B-series step-cut booster, which enhances the venturi vacuum signal, and while keeping the added benefit of running a drop-leg style booster. This modification alone warrants power increases throughout the mapped fuel curve by improving the atomization of fuel as it enters the intake, thanks to the improved design for fuel shear. This service was not available to our Stage 3 overhaul at the time you utilized our services.
Another craftsmanship and finish advance has been the addition of our local metal finisher to our team, who has succeeded in elevating the “pimp” factor of our carburetors exponentially.
We have also dramatically increased our in-stock inventory, and no longer rely on outside sources to fulfill our clients’ immediate needs. Justin, the days of not having floats in stock are long gone. We have a full complement of floats, needles and seats, jets, and other assorted parts that serve to provide more emergent parts delivery if necessary.
The most useful advance we have made in the last several months is a blueprint reference of each carburetor. To the layperson, most of the modifications we make are just drilling and de-burring. In reality, we are making sweeping changes to the actual way the carb is metering fuel, and enhancing its ability to deliver over the entire curve. TPC is now offering a manual that includes every single modification we have made to a carburetor, which should prove invaluable for future modification and tuning. Every metered part, every passage is cataloged and recorded in great detail, leaving you, the consumer with a 100% accurate vision of what is in your carburetor.
Without any further delay I want to offer you the option of having your two TPC Racing carburetors updated with our recent improvements at no cost to you.
This forced induction application/update would include all new gaskets, weighed/balanced 2X4 race floats, Braswells B-cut booster (standard on 4150 forced induction applications), powdercoating of the mainbodies to your color of choice (over 30 colors available now including candies and translucent), new needles/seats, and a blower fuel curve at that time will be mapped and plotted utilizing your existing metering blocks and new BBC cam profiles.
Another added benefit to accepting this offer is that your primary PV circuit will be boost referenced and documented on our new TPC blueprint package now offered on all Stage 3 builds and provided to you free of charge. I know you mentioned last year about upgrading to an HP/Proform body to improve the balance of airflow and enhance the performance potential, if during the time of updating your carbs you wish to implement this change, then by all means supply me with the bodies and I will incorporate them into the modifications. I will also thoroughly remove all the old coating material from the stock bodies so that you have good solid universal cores for future plans.
I trust that your interest in this offer will alleviate the frustrations you may currently have on getting those two carburetors up to speed for a blower application, but rest assured your experience with this worthy update and us will be greatly appreciated. What I will need from you is this:
“Completely” filled out calibration form online at our site.
3-week turnaround time on the modifications.
Color choice for the mainbodies
Shipment of the two carburetors (dry) to our address.
I offer this to you free of charge. I am 100% committed to your satisfaction, and want to see you grinning ear to ear when these carbs crack open for the first time on your new blower motor.
I am confident you will take me up on this offer, and I look forward to fulfilling our commitment to you. Please let me know of any other material shortfalls you were expecting during our first dealings (i.e. fittings or hardware) and I will include them with the finished carburetors.
V/R
Ty Lofstrom
President-Carburetor Specialist
Texas Performance Carburetors
P.O.Box 712973 Santee, CA 92072
619.749.9643
tdlofstrom@tpcracing.com

[Jordy]

From the OP6C-IV, oops I mean V RSVP list ( I get confused sometimes) :
Name:............. Boat: .......... Staying:
HotCrusader76...'81 Crusader Jet...Next to Jordy
Hey Ty, you still going to camp next to my van down by the river? If you do, could you bring me some Trident Performance Carb stickers so I can get a couple more MPH (I saw that in a thread somewhere)? :D :D :D

[miller19j]

jordanpaulk:
From the OP6C-IV, oops I mean V RSVP list ( I get confused sometimes) :
Name:............. Boat: .......... Staying:
HotCrusader76...'81 Crusader Jet...Next to Jordy
Hey Ty, you still going to camp next to my van down by the river? If you do, could you bring me some Trident Performance Carb stickers so I can get a couple more MPH (I saw that in a thread somewhere)? :D :D :D Wow You are all full of Piss and Vinegar today! eek!

[Jordy]

miller19j:
Wow You are all full of Piss and Vinegar today! eek! Better than being full of shit I suppose. I think I may have confused some other stuff in that last post, but I don't know what. This working all day is killing me. It has wrecked my diet, my self-imposed alcohol ban, turned my brain to mush, I think I need to quit as it's become detrimental to my health and overall well-being. :D :D :D

[78Eliminator]

Hey Ty, let me make it simple. You like to cloud the issue with shit loads of text and cheap $.25 words. Two questions?
What does all that shit about corrosion and water in my fuel have to do with you returning carbs to me with bad, and untested floats?
Why is it that after I rebuilt them myself, they worked just fine without ANY OTHER changes to my setup?

[Rexone]

I guess I'm a little late here but here's my .02 on the issues of moderation of this thread some have expressed interest in seeing done.
It's a tech topic that now includes a disagreement of 2 parties (still on a tech topic), so I'm not moving it.
I have no problem with debates of issues like this until they result in what I call "dead horse beating". I encourage all to express opinions and respond to each other as long as there's some new and useful info being presented. When that ceases to be the case and any tech thread deteriorates into a name calling flamefest that's of no benefit to anyone, that's when I'll lock it down. Just like SD does in the vdrive forum. This is a tech forum and it's content should remain as such for the most part, and also of some relevance to the reader.
With that said I think both sides have been pretty well represented on the subject so further re-hashing of the same info will be interpreted by me as of no benefit to the tech readers and I'll lock it. If you have new info though feel free. :)

[propless]

Boy I'm glad I stumbled into this one.
TPC has worked wonders for me on both of my set ups, a 750 and 850. He has provided help to me several times, including while I was on my boat on my mobile phone trying to tune the carb them. As I stated what I was doing, he professionally was telling me that I was incorrect, and he was right in the end.
He helped one of the biggest pains in the asses (per my wife) getting my boat from running well to absolutely great. Keep in mind I run a 454 26' jet and getting this beast running great is a task!
Ty never once backed off, nor did stopped returning calls or emails, he offered to replace parts if needed as well.
I can speak from over 25 years of boating and God, countless hours of working on motors and I know of only three or four folks who would bend over backwards like that, and Ty@TPC is one of them.
As I have stated before and will proudly exclaim again, I'm smoke someone to hell if I get screwed, but I'll be as proactively to state my satisfaction when is well worth the effort, and Ty @TPC as well as Tom@jetboatpeformance is an example of companies that I have found on this board and I'll use time and again with confidence for my boat.

[Jet Junk]

I don't know Ty or Justin, but it seems to me like someone willing to actually go for a boat ride to attempt to line the problem out would be an example of good customer service as opposed to being told to pull the carbs and return them for further inspection. Being an automotive parts rebuilder myself, I know no matter how much attention to detail you give to every job that comes through the door, occasionally you will have a dissatisfied customer, and no matter how you try, they cannot be pleased. I am not taking sides here, just saying that an easily fixed problem ( in this case bad floats)ends up in $1500 worth of carbs being thrown in the trash.
http://free.***boat.net/ubb/Avatars/Forum_Graphic_Depot/DSC00810.JPG

[78Eliminator]

I don't even want to talk about it any more. There is too much bad blood and verbal damage to Ty and myself. I hate this kind of thing and it doesn't belong here. I've had a sick feeling in my stomach all day. I don't want anything from Ty. Ty, we're done. Lets agree to disagree and both be men and not look back. I don't want to see you at the river and have it feel wierd. If the ***boat webmaster deleted everything related to Ty and his carbs and everything Ty and myself have said, I would consider it a late birthday present; and I'm sure no one here would miss this kind of juvenile thread one bit. Peace Ty, and I hope some day we can make amends and have a beer.

[***boat]

Not to step on any of the moderators, but that looks like a good out point. I would let something like this run a little more in the sandbar, but this is a tech forum so it is getting locked before we get buried under a mountain of .02 cents.