Oil Change Extraction System, any advice?

[77_Tahiti]

Guys I need to change the oil on my 460 it appears to have a little water in it. Helps to put the drain plug in before putting inot the water! Anyhow I hate paying the big bucks for oil changes, so I need advice on home use oil changing systems.

[Timer]

When my engine was out of the boat I had a hose kit attached to the oil pan drain hole so I can now use the hose to drain the oil to outside the boat. It takes a small drill pump (suction tube in hose) to do this. I don't know if you could install this hose with your engine in the boat the next time you pull your drain plug.
You might be able to get most of the oil out by putting the suction tube down your dip stick tube and sucking it out.

[Jetmugg]

Get yourself one of the Fumoto drain valves (from Jegs or Summit), which is a fitting that plugs into the drain plug hole, and has a small ball valve integrally attached. When you want to drain the oil, hook up a hose to the fitting, open the valve, and then either wait for nature to take it's course (usually several hours), or pump the oil out the bottom.
If you do it with cold oil, it will take much longer. My suggestion is to just pull your existing plug, and work quickly to get the Fumoto valve in place. Yes, you will lose some oil into the bilge, but the improved oil changes will be worth cleaning up the mess one time.
SteveM.

[77_Tahiti]

Timer & Jetmugg
Thanks for the advice, sounds like I should consider paying the big bucks this time. When I pull the motor this fall I will definately update the engine oil drain plug setup as you guys suggest.

[moomba]

Take a pump that is used for lower units on outboards (about $3-$4 at Walmart), and remove the short 6" that the the oil is sucked up thru and buy a longer one (same size) and re-attach it. Stick it down the dipstick tube and pump out you old oil.

[spectras only]

Tahiti,there are all kinds of drain kits available like the other guys mentioned,but you could drain your oil without removing anything off the engine,until you have time in the winter to install a proper one.First of ,there's a kit that consists of a brass T that you screw in the block where your oil pressure sender goes,than you put the sender on top of this T.The T has a high pressure hose with a ballcheck at the end.You run the engine [at operating temperature]and slowly open the valve at the end of this hose,you just keep an eye on the volume of the oil that came out[ depends on your oil pan size].As soon as the oil start to sputter you're done,and close the valve off,shutting the engine off.The oil pressure is still maintained at this point.I know a lot of guys will advise against this system,but if it's properly done it won't hurt your engine.I would recommend the pan installed kit for later!There's another way to suck the oil out,get a steel brakeline about 2 feet long [it will reach the bottom of the 460 oilpan],put a clear plastic hose at the end and use a cheap drillpump[from a speedshop]and scavenge the oil that way.I have a vacuum pump that a friend got me from the hospital he worked it, and it works well with the brakeline setup,I use this in indoor only since requires 110v to run.If you got so much water in your engine ,I would advise you to change it twice in the row between two runs to make sure all the moisture is out.

[SeaSlut]

My rig does not have the room for the fumoto. I wish it did. I used to pull my motor every oil change, got it down to 20 minutes.
I bought the TopSider available from West Marine or Northern Hydraulic. I pull my distributor and run the hose down. I also use it for my axle pumpkins, trannys, power steering, lawn mower, ect.
rog

[77_Tahiti]

Seaslut,
I have seen those Bigboy TopSider Extraction Pumps and have a hard time believing they really work. Can that pump pull oil through the dipstick tube? Does it appear to remove all of the oil? Is it a pain in the as... to get the vacumm started? I have heard those manual pumps take several tries to get a strong enough vacumm to do the job.
Spectras Only,
My wife would give me hell till the day I die if I toasted the motor draining the oil with it running. Im better off bending over to the local marine dealer here.

[mister460]

Ya dude, lot's of places sell a tube/pump system that goes down the dipstick tube and sucks the oil out. You should be able to get most of the water out with one change and a good run but I'd do two oil swaps to be safe. Good luck!!

[SeaSlut]

My dipstick tube has a crimp in it to orient the blade so I can't get it in. I go in through my distributor hole. I bought it for the boat but wound up using it on everything from the harley to the lawn mower.
Once you get the tube in the liquid you wish to remove, you pump this thing 40 time and walk away. Come back five minutes later your pan is empty and the topsider is full.
It really is that easy.
Remember the first step to performance is clean oil and its much better to change your oil often, than to rebuild your motor twice.
[This message has been edited by SeaSlut (edited June 25, 2001).]

[spectras only]

Tahiti,I didn't make it clear,you run the engine with a garden hose attached to the cooling inlet hose,or have the boat sitting at the dock while you're draining,hehe.

[77_Tahiti]

Spectras only,
Does'nt it concern you that the motor is running the last few minutes with little to no oil?
Pump experiences,
Any experiences out there with those 12-volt pump systems that Cabelas sells for 20 bucks?
After surfing the web sure seems like all the BMW and Mercedes people like the Topsider system for there cars, guess its a clean method for them. Any experience using these pumps on Big Block dipstick tubes?

[regattaJim]

pull the distributor out..... then pull the remote oil filter off.... put a bucket under the filter base.. spin the oil pump drive with a drill.... pumps the oil right out..... kinda rustic but works...

[spectras only]

Tahiti,you never drain the oil out completely with any system,unless you take the drainplug out and tilt the engine.With the vacuum pump/tube through dipstick tube I can go rigth to the bottom though!When you use the afformentioned kit you still have 25 pounds of pressure when it starts sputtering and then you shut the engine off.[It helps if you monitor your gauge as well].There's no substitute for a real method of oil change,but this system works well for frequent changes [every 30-50hrs]when you don't deal with sludge buildup common with high miled cars.I use this system during boating season,and I do the regular method in the winter layup.
[This message has been edited by spectras only (edited June 25, 2001).]

[daboot]

Tahiti, I think this will be the cheapest way to go, (1)only if you have enough clearance from your drain plug area and the stringer (2) if you can find a brass NIPPLED or CONED end shut off valve like I have on my jet (oilpan) Then your in business, You'll have to remove the motor one more time for the last time. Have all your tools ready, and you'll be able to do this in 10 min. In your garage while your motor is hanging, Not over the boat perferably. Oh, I forgot If you have your own welder, and if you weld. You can also braze this application if you wish. Once the nipple valve is on/in, then go to Home Depot in the hose aisle and get 4-5 ft. of CLEAR hose so you can watch your process. Now here's the BIG SECRET, shhhhhh, don't tell anyone, slip the hose through your bilge drain and hook it to your new permanent valve (measure the base of the nipple of course and buy the right hose) Take off your breather/oil fill cap and whala' safe, $10 investment, spill free,and done like me in 5 min. It takes me longer to change my oil filter than draining my oil ! That's my $.02 or $10.00 for this matter, Hope it works for you and feel free to e-mail for further info. daboot@earthlink.net Peace and all that good stuff !! sorry so long, but I hope it'll help!!!!

[spectras only]

The system daboot recommends is what I have in my second boat[ it's also available in kit form],but like he says it requires the engine to be removed [winter project].

[Bubbledeck]

I bought one of those $20 12 volt POS and ended up taking it back. I bought one of those pumps for your drill motor and has a hose that goes down your dipstick tube .. it was cheap and seems to work ok .. i think the fittings the guys were talking about is the way to go though

[Cas42]

I've been taking my boat to the Oil Changers. They have an extraction pump that pulls the 8 qts out of the dip stick tube in about 10 minutes. I figure it's worth the extra $10 more than I would spend doing it all myself. It leaves me with a little more time to play around with something else http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

[77_Tahiti]

Well,
Thanks for all the advice and creative ideas for changing the oil. Since I plan to hit the water Saturday I ordered one of those 12-volt vacuum pumps from Cabelas for 20 bucks plus 12 for 2nd day shipping. I will let you all know how the thing works after this weekend. Bottom line when I pull the engine this Fall I will be updating the oil drain plug with a hose type of system. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/confused.gif

[daboot]

cas42, that's $10 extra bucks that you could give the ol' lady for her nails to keep her happy, Or 6-7 extra gallons of gas for that last run on a Sun. evening, BUT IT'S ALL GOOD IN THE HOOD BROTHA !!!
77 Tahiti hope you find the best and least exspensive application for yourself. It'll be nice to hear your outcome then ! Peace !!
[This message has been edited by daboot (edited June 27, 2001).]

[77_Tahiti]

http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif Hey Guys,
I received the 20-dollar 12-volt pump from Cabelas and it worked pretty damn good. Turns out the oil drain was plumbed with a hose and a threaded cap fitting on the end. I fed that hose thru the drain hole with the help of a coat hanger and my 5-year-old boy. Then I put the pump tube into the hose and hooked it to the battery. Hit the switch and 15 minutes later the oil was removed. I was surprised the 12-volt pump actually worked as well as it did, I would easily recommend this pump in the future.

[Bubbledeck]

77_Tahiti glad to hear yours worked .. maybe I just got a bad one

[racingrascal]

What would you guys recommend in a new boat (19'shadow)? When the motor is built should I ask for a certain drain system.I would like to do my oil changes myself. How often should you change your oil in a high performance application?

[ctibor]

Just changed the oil for the first time on my 99 Kachina. It has one of those hoses that you pull thru the drain hole. It took me about 4 hours to drain the oil. Would that pump Tahiti was talking about help me out?

[77_Tahiti]

ctibor,
I have to say a pump should help, after removing the cap the hose was hanging out with a oil pan under for an hour or so before I hooked up the pump (had to help the wife get ready for a dinner party http://free.***boat.net/ubb/tongue.gif ). During that hour only a half a quart or so dripped out.
Bubbledeck,
It was strange how the oil flowed thru the clear tube of the pump. The oil came in small spurts, not a strong continuous flow like I would have imagined, but it did the job! Hard to say if that pump would have worked thru the dipstick tube, I had gravity working for me.
[This message has been edited by 77_Tahiti (edited July 03, 2001).]

[johnnie jetboat]

I have the hose with the pipe cap on the end of it. I drop the hose thru the plug hole and regulate my compressor down to 10 lbs. Then just stick your air nozzle thru the filler in the valve cover and seal it with a rag. The oil drains in about 10 minutes.

[rivercrazy]

I bought a small drill pump for my boat. A have an oil line off the bottom of the oil pan. With a cordless drill it takes about 2-3 minutes to pump 10qts.
Its probably overkill but I change my oil every 30 hours. I figure its cheap insurance as we all push our motors hard!

[Joey]

On the record.......you can take the Wal Mart pump idea and shove it.
Overtons sells a big pump for $50 bucks that is supposed to work well.
Forget about the wall mart pump idea. Any way its $18.99......I took mine back to them filled with oil.

[77_Tahiti]

johnnie jetboat,
Man where have you been? You could have saved me 32 bucks had this great idea been posted a week ago or so! That is a good idea using an air compressor with it regulated to 10 PSI or so thru the dip-stick tube. I've been looking for more uses for my compressor other than cleaning my ears. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/eek.gif

[spectras only]

Tahiti,if you have airbreathers one on each valve cover,oil being hot ,breathers removed ,proper draining kit,the oil should drain in no more then 20 minutes,without compressor!I have the draining kit on my 454 chev engined boat,and that's how long it takes.I dont have the kit on my 429 ford ,that's why I use a vacuum pump on that one through the dipstick.
[This message has been edited by spectras only (edited July 09, 2001).]

[best1syn2oil]

I've had some good experiences with bypass filtration and oil analysis in boat powerplants. I've several coworkers that have gone more than several complete seasons with out changes with this system and a premium synthetic oil.

[Hallett of a Dream]

Personally, I just have a fitting drilled into the side of my oil pan. It is a ball valve that closes at 1/4 turn. It is drilled into the lowest part of the pan before the bottom bends around. I hook a suction job up to her and start pumping. To help get even more oil out, since it will not drain all of it out, I run the high side of the trailer on a block so the valve is recovering more oil.

[old rigger]

Spectras only,
My old boss at Advantage use to drain his oil in his K boat the way you described, pulling the line from the block where the oil presure gauge hooked up. He'd light that big blower motor up and it seemed in a matter of seconds the oil would be pumped out. He would do this between rounds at the races, with the boat on the trailer too. On the way home, at the last minute before they would hit the road, he would pull the drain plug on the pan, and let all the oil flow out the drain hole of the boat! Can you imagine following that mess down the highway?
I always used a drain kit on my boats, that was nothing more than a hose that ran from the drain plug on the oil pan and was long enough to run out the drain hole in the boat. They have a little brass cap on the end of the hose. The thing just sits in the bildge. What could be simpler? I could never understand wanting to use those pumps and all that stuff. Just stick the hose out the transom, pull the plug and let it drain over night. No muss,no fuss.
I always thought that getting to the filter was a bigger pain in the ass if your boat had low ex-manifolds and is the reason I always run a remote filter.

[rivercrazy]

I have the same system OR is describing. I do use a drill pump to pump the 11 qts out of my pan. Only takes about 30 seconds.

[spectras only]

Old Rigger, as I mentioned before ,I got the drain kit on my LS-6 with the hose long enough to get it through the transom drainhole,and it drains out quite fast when the oil is hot.The 429 Ford [it's been running for 13 years now]has the check valve drain kit that I drain the engine while it's running http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif,and takes only minutes.As soon as the flow starts to sputter [still see over 40 # pressure]I shut the engine off.As you mentioned the oil filter is a pain to remove with wet log manifolds,so I opted to use a shorter PH 43 Fram filter that's easy to remove.I also change the oil filter twice between oil changes ,hence the smaller capacity. BTW ,I never found any sludge in my pan ,in case some of you wondered if this method removes all the oil from the pan.We boaters change the oil frequently enough to avoid sludge buildup anyway.It would be pretty nasty to drain the leftover oil on the way home on the highway http://free.***boat.net/ubb/eek.gif

[old rigger]

Spectras only,
Yeah, I know what you have, I guess I was just rambling on about the set up I have. I wasn't directing the 2nd part of the post to you directly......just mumbling to myself... out loud .....and to know one in paticular.
Never thought to run one of those shorter filters!! Good idea. I like the remote setup. On one boat, I ran the dual filter set up. Probably over kill for what I was running. Had the big oil pan, dual filters and an oil cooler.

[spectras only]

old rigger ,change of subject,I know you have a spectra project.There's one field I know little about is,the fibreglass material put in the 70's and 80's boats! I know spectras were all hand layed and very strong [heavy as well],but have no info on the materials used,ie; E glass or S glass ? Only Bud Bailey could answer that,but I doubt he's even reads any of our ramblings http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

[old rigger]

S.O.
No I don't know what they used. I never worked there. Tell you what though, that Spectra of mine is built like a friggin tank. You could drop it off a building and it wouldn't hurt it. When I took out the intake, the keel measured over an inch of glass. The dash is 5/8 and the deck measures 1/2 inch thick. No wood in the dash or the transom. Very impresive lay up. Four full length stringers too.
You know most of the shops out here then and now, built hand laminated boats. Even the crappy ones. Which goes to show you that just because a boat was hand laminated doesn't necessarily mean 'quality'. The only shop that I knew of that used a chopper gun was Galixie Boats.

[punthouse]

Bought a 25 dollar pump from Washawski. Looks and feels like a 5 dollar machine but did the job in about ten minutes with warm oil.