Water in oil "HELP"

[jbone]

I recently beefed up my 502 with a cam, head work, valve train, carb, intake, ignition, etc. The boat ran great on the 3 + hours of testing and tuning on the water. I picked about 400 rpm and about 5 mph. However yesterday, I started noticing a lot of steam from the exhaust and oil puking out of the valvel cover breathers.
I checked the oil and their were signs of water. It still ran ok, but I limped it back to the dock.
My question is this. With the increased hp and rpm, did I need to regulate the pressure of water pumping in from the jet at wot. I have a gate valve, but I run it wide open.
I will be doing new head gaskets, but how can I find out the cause. From what I've read I need to a comp test and a leakdown test. What will these tests tell me and is there anything else I should check before opening her up?
I don't suspect any engine damage. At this point, I'm just going to get the nasty oil out and pump good run it for a minute to get good oil everywhere. before I get around to the new gaskets later this week.
Any help to prevent this in the future would be very appreciated. First river trip is in two weeks.
Thanks,
J

[1978 Rogers]

Did you say the gate valve is wide open? My ball valve is barely cracked open, may be under 1/4 open.

[billet racing]

Had that problem a lot. Put a presure relief valve in. vent the excess water overboard. should help the problem.
Duane in KS has a setup, or you can put one togehter yourself.
Jerry

[YeLLowBoaT]

Do you have a presure guage on the cooling system? if not they are realy cheap.
My guess is you have too much presure in your cooling system. = gasket leak, intakes are the pretty commen cuase.

[jbone]

Just talked to someone at HTP. They are thinking intake manifold gasket. After 3 hours of tuning and driving, I hadn't re-torqed. I'll check it when I get home. I am also getting the pressure bypass system from him. I think it is worth the peace of mind.
Steam in the exhaust still looks like head gasket though.
J

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Don't know what exhaust you are running, but Lowrider has always had some steam from the exhaust, mainly arround idle or on take-off from idle with her orriginal log manifolds. There were never any head gasket troubles, they were perfect after 26 years when I opened the motor up winter '04/'05 and rebuilt to start upgrading things. My gate valve is open maybe 2 turns, 1 1/2, I don't recall exactly. If yours is unregulated (or unrelieved), I'd bet you pushed an intake gasket, they're pretty prone.

[jbone]

Thanks for the input.
I actually have a ball valve. It is the one with lever that only has a 1/4 turn to close completely.
As far as the steam, I have the stock exhaust still from indmar, center riser. It has always had a little steam, but this was a lot.
From everyone I've talked to, it is looking more and more like the intake gasket. I'm preparing for the worst though and ordering everyhting to do the head gaskets.
I'll post on the results.
J

[SmokinLowriderSS]

Well, it won't take very long to change them, and you must have strained them pretty good even if an intake is actually what let go, probably a good idea. Put a little circle or silicone RTV arround the water passages in the intake gaskets. Don't use much tho, not necisary, but does help insure they seal as well as possible. No need to RTV the whole thing, besides RTV and gasoline don't get along well.

[Ken F]

You are definatly on the right track putting the bypass regulator on your boat. I tend to listen to Duane and Brian! Your water pressure can get way up there running WFO!!! you can mount a water pressure guage on your intak manifold if there is a bung where you will be able to see it. I had the exact same problem last spring, and was running short of time before our big Jet-boat get together called the Tablerock roost. A buddy drug my boat to Wichita two days ahead of time, Duane and Brian got it fixed & back to me in time for the roost! Turned out to be the cam-chain cover on my BBF.
Ken F

[jbone]

When I got home from work today, I finished draining the milkshake and put fresh oil in and a new filter.
I removed the plugs and found water in the 6 and 8 cylinders. I did a comp test and they ranged from 165 to 180 psi except No. 6. It had 140. I'm hoping the head gasket is leaking out some compression there.
After replacing the plugs, I fired it up for about 30 seconds to circulate good oil through the engine. It sounded great, but I know it still needs to get the head gaskets put in. I could do the one, but I figure I should do both while i'm there.
Can anyone help with the torque specs for the gen VI 502 with iron rect. port heads.
Thanks,
J

[502 JET]

The torque specs are 85 ft lbs.Start at a light setting and work your way up in three steps to the 85.Make shure you use avation sealant or other thread sealant on the bolt threads.Torque the bolts in the proper sequence.You may want to check that you have the correct head gaskets.

[jbone]

Thanks 502, that is a concern.
There was little question as the ones that went on during the build up. They were by Victor. My new ones are GM gaskets specific to the Gen VI 502 with my heads.
GM #12366984 they come as a pair.
I'm using the Fel-Pro 1211 intake manifold gaskets.
Let me know if you have any 502 secrets for me.
J

[502 JET]

Are you 100%positive you have a gen 6?Because if it is a gen 5 the gasket is specific to that aplication.Make sure you use the proper torque sequence.Drain your block before you remove the heads so you dont fill the cylinders with water.

[jbone]

Are you 100%positive you have a gen 6?Because if it is a gen 5 the gasket is specific to that aplication.Make sure you use the proper torque sequence
Yup, Gen 6.
What is the torque sequence. I'm sure my mechanic has it, but I will be there and would like to make sure it is done right. He's also a buddy of mine so he won't be too pissed at me looking over his shouler.
J

[502 JET]

The torque sequence is the same for all BBC.I cant post pics now.If you need it I can post it tonight.

[El Prosecutor]

I recently had a similar problem to yours and while searching HB and some other sites realized that the overpressurized cooling system is usually found on boats with OT headers. Anyway, you can get a guage like this for $10 at Home Depot to determine if you are builiding the kind of pressure that requires a relief valve:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/3252Inlet_Guage_Valve2-med.jpg
I have logs on mine and during the test runs with the guage it never even bounced up to 20 pounds. You can see the needle showing the max pressure reached at about 17-18 lbs. Apparently my problem was just condensation in the oil, which can happen when you run too cool and the oil doesn't get hot enough to boil it off. Your problem may be worse, I only had milky oil in the valve covers and fill tube cap, none on the dipstick, but the condensation thing is worth thinking about "for our listeners".

[jbone]

502 JET The torque sequence is the same for all BBC.I cant post pics now.If you need it I can post it tonight.
That would be great. Tonight is fine. If you have the intake specs I'll take that too. Edelbrock Airgap.
J

[RICHARD TILL]

cylinder head bolt torque specs. are 70# for the long and 60# for the short.

[jbone]

I'm confused on the torque specs. I've read 85 on one post and 60 for short and 70 for the long.
I'm using the factory bolts if that matters.
Can someone please confirm on torque and sequence.
Thanks,
J

[beerjet]

I always thought it was 85 for the stockers
-beerjet-

[supersoaker509]

I thought it was 85 on stock 502 heads and 70 on long bolts and 60 on short bolts on alum heads.

[502 JET]

I looked up the specs for a 97 7.4L 454.I have this engine in my suburban and it has the small headed headbolts the same as my gen 6 502.Head torque in three steps: step1-30 ftlb step2-59 ftlb step3-85 ftlb.The intake specs are 30 ftlb.I got these specs from my Mitchell On Demand dvd shop manual the latest version of software.The pictures below are of the sequences.

[jbone]

I looked up the specs for a 97 7.4L 454.I have this engine in my suburban and it has the small headed headbolts the same as my gen 6 502.Head torque in three steps: step1-30 ftlb step2-59 ftlb step3-85 ftlb.The intake specs are 30 ftlb.I got these specs from my Mitchell On Demand dvd shop manual the latest version of software.The pictures below are of the sequences.
Thank you for the information, it will help me a lot tomorrow when I plan on doing the head gaskets. I'll let you know how it comes out.
J

[code8]

will you be ready before our river trip? :)

[jbone]

Hell yeah!
Doing the work today. Call me on the cell when you get a chance.
J

[Unchained]

The water pressure regulator will only help to a point and then it will not bypass enough water to regulate sufficiently.
I restriced the water flow right at the fitting on the pump.
I have a fitting inside the 3/8 " npt nipple the reduces the ID to 5/16" and that works real good to cool the engine and it is enough for the intercooler also.

[jbone]

It was definately blown head gaskets. The water jacket pushed the gasket into the 6 and 8 cylinders on the right bank and was starting to push through the 7 cylinder on the left bank.
We torqued these very meticulously. It fired right up when we were done. I went to the lake and idle it on the trailer for about half an hour and then drained the oil.
I'll be draining it a few more times I'm sure to get all the water out.
I'll be receiving Duane's bypass system tomorrow and will install it before I do any more WOT runs.
Thanks for all thelp on this guys. :smile:
J

[TJS]

The water pressure regulator will only help to a point and then it will not bypass enough water to regulate sufficiently.
I restriced the water flow right at the fitting on the pump.
I have a fitting inside the 3/8 " npt nipple the reduces the ID to 5/16" and that works real good to cool the engine and it is enough for the intercooler also.
Got any pics of this. Is it just a slug machined on the lathe that is press fit into the npt side of the water fitting.
Thanks.
T.J.

[john]

what should the water pressure for water headers

[Unchained]

Got any pics of this. Is it just a slug machined on the lathe that is press fit into the npt side of the water fitting.
Thanks.
T.J.
I ran a 1/4" pipe tap inside the 3/8" pipe nipple the went into the pump, and screwed in a short 1/4" pipe nipple. Then I drilled the inside of it to 5/16" .

[TJS]

I ran a 1/4" pipe tap inside the 3/8" pipe nipple the went into the pump, and screwed in a short 1/4" pipe nipple. Then I drilled the inside of it to 5/16" .
Ahh Thanks. That is a great idea. I am going to use that.
T.J.