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View Full Version : Opinions needed on new (old) boat idea



ULTRA28
04-10-2006, 11:48 AM
I'm thinking about coming out with an inexpensive boat line to offer. There was a guy selling a knock off of our old 21 LX at the show this weekend. I figured out how to do it and be able to sell them for only $32,900 with a Merc 5.0L (220 hp). The boat would only be available a certain way without the ability to even put options other then a couple of choices of engine upgrades. I'm also thinking about coming back out with the old 23 for something like $42,900 set up the same way. These boats wouldn't have billet steps or real trick interiors and they wouldn't have electric hatch lifts or aluminim cup holders. They would be a nice entry level (sort of custom) boat. I was planning on calling it our Classic line
Here is a shot of the 21 Classic.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/49721classic.jpg
Here is the 23 Classic
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/49723classic.jpg

Tom Brown
04-10-2006, 11:50 AM
I'd really like to drive that 23 classic. :idea:
Personally, I think it's a great idea to offer a 21' stern drive. 5.7L MPI. Set up for skiing and family fun.
Both of those boats are beautiful and ought to easily compete against the current crop of production boats.
I love the crazy baller boats but it would be really cool if a young family could buy an affordable boat without the egocentric bling gagetry that we all love so much. :cool:

Outnumbered
04-10-2006, 11:54 AM
Great idea. Boats are getting out of hand in pricing.

shadow
04-10-2006, 11:54 AM
Great idea John.I would think that there would be alot of people that would love a "new"entry level but the prices now a days may be beyond thier budget.

WYRD
04-10-2006, 11:56 AM
Here is the 23 Classic
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/49723classic.jpg
She doesnt look 23 :idea:

abraman1326
04-10-2006, 11:57 AM
I think it's a great idea. Open up your market share to the younger, just starting out families who are interested in the "boating lifestyle," and can't get into the truely custom lines. Besides, it can also build customer loyalty if they get into a lower line and see the quality of your product. Then, when they are in a position to step up to something, you've already got them familiar w/ the great product you produce. Just me .02...
BRA

tamalewagon
04-10-2006, 12:03 PM
Seems like a great way to capture a lot more of the garden variety entry level boaters type.

andy01
04-10-2006, 12:14 PM
I think it isn't a bad idea at all. You can't loose by trying it. It would give the people that like the more expensive stuff you build a chance to get a "non-bayliner" type of boat with a decent price and payment. Do a basic gel design you pick one of five designs and five colors or somethng. Keep the cost down all the way around. And hell you work out a deal on warrantys so you could just offer them a boat at "X" price and they would be covered for 5 years. I think you should do the 19' in that class also.............
Andy

JB in so cal
04-10-2006, 12:42 PM
A 21'-23' for the price ranges you're talking about would be in the range of Sea Rays and Chapparals, but under Cobalt.
Perfect :cool:

LOWRIVER2
04-10-2006, 12:48 PM
I've seen a LOT of guys buy Chapparrals that would have bought west coast styled boats but were priced out of the market. I say go for it on a limited run, it can't be too cost prohibitive since you already have the molds. I know one guy ready to buy a 21 with a jet if you build it.

riverracerx
04-10-2006, 12:50 PM
That 23' is still one of the best looking boats in that size range.
Oh and my Nordic came with plastic cup holders! :(

Tom Brown
04-10-2006, 12:51 PM
I know one guy ready to buy a 21 with a jet if you build it.
... with a gun turret and depleted uranium bullet shield. I know the way you and your cronies roll. :D

LOWRIVER2
04-10-2006, 12:56 PM
I already have my Ultra.
Besides, the work boat you're talking about is a rigid Achilles. It has a whacka/LOL

Partycattin
04-10-2006, 12:57 PM
Isn't that Cheetah's strategy? I think their 21 open bow with a 5.7 ran under $30,000. Not a lot of bells and whistles but a decent boat for the money.
As for the 5.0, I think a lot of people would be surprised what that motor will do in a 21'. I had a 21' Cheetah open bow with a 4.3. and Alpha drive. The boat pulled hard for skiing and hit about 50 mph, while using very little fuel. Most people that drove it thought it had the 5.7. The 5.0 has more HP which would help.
With your name and reputation, a lot of those Cheetah buyers would come your way. They go to Cheetah not for their reputation, but to get a custom boat at an affordable price.

buzzaro
04-10-2006, 01:07 PM
I think it's a great idea. Open up your market share to the younger, just starting out families who are interested in the "boating lifestyle," and can't get into the truely custom lines. Besides, it can also build customer loyalty if they get into a lower line and see the quality of your product. Then, when they are in a position to step up to something, you've already got them familiar w/ the great product you produce. Just me .02...
BRA
This is exactly right, my wife and I are late 20's early 30's, respectively, and just bought our first boat. We knew what kind of boat we wanted but with our current budget it was going to be tough to find something we wanted. A boat takes a lot of extra stuff that reduced our budget, ie a new truck to tow it (had to have of course :rollside: ) a new home to store it(also a must have :) ) and other assorted less expensive items. So the problem we were running into is the availability of boats that match both our wants and our budget. We wanted a nice boat, with a good hull design and decent power. We werent looking for a bayliner type or another damned tow boat. This turned out to be a more difficult task than expected. It can get tough to find anything but a tow boat in the Sacramento area. The manufacturers that we know of seem to be concentrating on building the larger boats (25' and up), this may not be the case but it seemed that most of the new and used boats for sale were larger than we wanted. After considering both new and used, we decided to go with a used so we could keep the loan at 10yrs. We also knew that we were going to be getting something from either IE or havasu, which I gotta tell you, is a real pain in the ass from up here and going through the process with a new boat would be quite a bit simpler. Anyhow, I think offering less bling and the same (or more :cool: ) bang would be a great idea for first time Hot Boaters like myself. Just stuff like decent gel, basic upholstery and a hot motor, up to the 496HO for instance. Youre definatly on the right track to reclaim a market that seems to be getting forgotten.

superdave013
04-10-2006, 01:11 PM
I always liked the old style 21. Well now that you are asking I like the lines of it better then a lot of the new stuff I see.

Magic34
04-10-2006, 01:12 PM
I think Sleek has been doing something like that with their enforcer line. However, they were bigger (26-28) and the price was higher due to the size. I think it helped a lot at the shows for the average buyer looking for a boat.
I am 50/50 on this one. I think it is great to offer a competitive priced boat to those who wouldn't normally or couldn't afford to buy. However, don't lower your standards to match the competition.
Whatever you do, pick what you are the best at and make it better than the rest. This is one of the lessons I have learned.

Brady Bunch
04-10-2006, 01:36 PM
I think Sleek has been doing something like that with their enforcer line. However, they were bigger (26-28) and the price was higher due to the size. I think it helped a lot at the shows for the average buyer looking for a boat.
I am 50/50 on this one. I think it is great to offer a competitive priced boat to those who wouldn't normally or couldn't afford to buy. However, don't lower your standards to match the competition.
Whatever you do, pick what you are the best at and make it better than the rest. This is one of the lessons I have learned.
I agree with you!
Although I would not see it as Ultra lowering its standards to the competition but rather building a much better boat for the same $ as the competition.
I think it would be a great idea John!

JB in so cal
04-10-2006, 01:42 PM
I think Sleek has been doing something like that with their enforcer line. However, they were bigger (26-28) and the price was higher due to the size. I think it helped a lot at the shows for the average buyer looking for a boat.
I am 50/50 on this one. I think it is great to offer a competitive priced boat to those who wouldn't normally or couldn't afford to buy. However, don't lower your standards to match the competition.
Whatever you do, pick what you are the best at and make it better than the rest. This is one of the lessons I have learned.
GM sells a $80,000 Cadillac and a $11,000 Cobalt. As long as there's a differentiation between lines, go for it!

rivercrazy
04-10-2006, 01:55 PM
Wasn't Lightining set up as an offshoot of Ultra for essentially the same purpose? How did that work out?

Magic34
04-10-2006, 01:57 PM
GM sells a $80,000 Cadillac and a $11,000 Cobalt. As long as there's a differentiation between lines, go for it!
There could be a long argument in that.
Is the Hummer product better now that GM is making them?
What about when Chrysler (Iacocca) took over the Maserati line. They failed at a cost of about $200 million in loses.
Is the Colbalt better than a Civic or Ford Focus?
GM is closing plants all over the US now. I would say, make an $80 Caddy, or make a $11k Cobalt, but whatever you do, do it better than anyone else.

Magic34
04-10-2006, 01:58 PM
I agree with you!
Although I would not see it as Ultra lowering its standards to the competition but rather building a much better boat for the same $ as the competition.
I think it would be a great idea John!
I agree with this. If Ultra continues their quality in these boats, then I think it is a good move. Make the best $35,000 boat on the market is all I am saying.

moneypit
04-10-2006, 02:27 PM
Isn't that Cheetah's strategy? I think their 21 open bow with a 5.7 ran under $30,000. Not a lot of bells and whistles but a decent boat for the money.
As for the 5.0, I think a lot of people would be surprised what that motor will do in a 21'. I had a 21' Cheetah open bow with a 4.3. and Alpha drive. The boat pulled hard for skiing and hit about 50 mph, while using very little fuel. Most people that drove it thought it had the 5.7. The 5.0 has more HP which would help.
With your name and reputation, a lot of those Cheetah buyers would come your way. They go to Cheetah not for their reputation, but to get a custom boat at an affordable price.
Exactly my thoughts.

voodoomedman
04-10-2006, 02:28 PM
I think the loyalty move up thing would be good as well. I mean you somehow suck us all in with nice boats and great customer service. If I couldn't have afforded the Stealth than I would have still like to stay custom and I would have bought something like that from you in lieu of some other manufacturers.

Eliminator 4 Life
04-10-2006, 02:29 PM
She doesnt look 23 :idea:
fawk how would you know its monday and you said you need a lil nap :crossx:

Tom Brown
04-10-2006, 02:29 PM
I always liked the old style 21. Well now that you are asking I like the lines of it better then a lot of the new stuff I see.
Geeze SD... maybe it's time to trade in those white Y-fronts for some new fashion. You're from the school they tore down when they built the old school.

DUNDUN
04-10-2006, 02:32 PM
i think its a great idea! my family is in that same situation, and im sure there are many others in it too. we have an 18 ft sea ray. my stepdad would love to buy more of a performance boat but we dont have that kind of coin, the 21 or 23 would be perfect! that price range plus ultra's already great quality... id say go for it.

OGShocker
04-10-2006, 02:35 PM
Good idea JW!
I would hope you would provide a higher priced T-shirt to the guys who buy your higher end line up..:D

havaduner
04-10-2006, 02:35 PM
I think the idea is good, and I think several of the manufacturers have toyed or tried this idea before, so a couple questions to think about.
1. How many boats ( if any) did this guy sell at the show?
2. How many people asked you at the show if you have a 21 or 23 in this price range?
3. Is price the driving factor in people buying the cookie cutter boats?
Not knocking the idea, just thoughts that popped in my head. When I bought my 21, people asked me why i bought such a small boat. within the first half hour of my first trip to Havi on memorial day weekend, my wife wanted a bigger boat. We now run in a 26, and their are days (not always holidays) I see people in smaller boats struggling with water conditions from the bigger boats. Not sure it will ever happen, but I for one wouldnt mind seeing the trend of ever bigger boats reverse.

76ANTHONY
04-10-2006, 02:51 PM
I'm thinking about coming out with an inexpensive boat line to offer. There was a guy selling a knock off of our old 21 LX at the show this weekend. I figured out how to do it and be able to sell them for only $32,900 with a Merc 5.0L (220 hp). The boat would only be available a certain way without the ability to even put options other then a couple of choices of engine upgrades. I'm also thinking about coming back out with the old 23 for something like $42,900 set up the same way. These boats wouldn't have billet steps or real trick interiors and they wouldn't have electric hatch lifts or aluminim cup holders. They would be a nice entry level (sort of custom) boat. I was planning on calling it our Classic line
Here is a shot of the 21 Classic.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/49721classic.jpg
Here is the 23 Classic
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/49723classic.jpg
where do i sign up??? i think its a great idea. entry level boats are way toooooooo expensive and personally i just need to get the family on the water, that 23 looks great. i was trying to find a 22ft deep v just for havi and still cant find one. but these two look good for the money

Boozer
04-10-2006, 03:08 PM
I like the idea. I'm at a point financially where upgrading to a bigger/nicer boat is an option for me but most of the westcoast boats are still a little bit out of my price range not to mention nothing in life is ever certain and just because I can afford a 65K boat today doesnt mean I'll be able to make the payments on it tomorrow. The 23 would be the perfect boat for my needs and budget. If you decide to build this please let us know because I might just have to swing by and order one up next Spring.

ekbearly
04-10-2006, 03:22 PM
I think it is a great idea as long as you build it under a different brand name.
When people think of Ultra, they think premium. People want an Ultra because they are the highest quality and rare compared to a Chapparal... or a Nordic for that matter (I own a Heat).
Just look at Jaguar... they built the X type to appeal to the masses who couldn't afford a premium vehicle and their brand went downstream fast.
If you build the boat under another brand, you can keep Ultra's upstream while appealing to the masses with a downstream brand.

ULTRA28
04-10-2006, 06:34 PM
Thanks everybody. I'm going to go ahead with it then. I'll post some pictures and specs as it comes along. I don't think it will bring down the Ultra name, because it will be a separate line, kind of like the Stealth and Shadow line. It will be the Classic line. Yeah, we originally started the Lightning line off the same way, but I allowed people to upgrade them and customize them and it became just as much work as an Ultra, but cut into Ultra sales and profit. These boats will not generate a lot of profit, but will bring in more customers that currently can't afford a decent custom (semi-custom). Thanks again everybody. Without sounding like SPAM, I guess I will now now start taking orders if anybody is actually interested. :)

THOR
04-10-2006, 06:41 PM
That is a great price.
Is the 23 similar to the 247 but without the molded swimstep? Is is a stepped bottom?
BTW, there is a 1998 23 in the trader for 38,500 and a 1999 21' for 26K. I think the price is fine.

MRSDRMCAT
04-10-2006, 07:43 PM
We think it is a great idea. Good luck John!!! Now hurry up with the new deck! :)

BoatFloating
04-10-2006, 07:48 PM
I'm thinking about coming out with an inexpensive boat line to offer. There was a guy selling a knock off of our old 21 LX at the show this weekend. I figured out how to do it and be able to sell them for only $32,900 with a Merc 5.0L (220 hp). The boat would only be available a certain way without the ability to even put options other then a couple of choices of engine upgrades. I'm also thinking about coming back out with the old 23 for something like $42,900 set up the same way. These boats wouldn't have billet steps or real trick interiors and they wouldn't have electric hatch lifts or aluminim cup holders. They would be a nice entry level (sort of custom) boat. I was planning on calling it our Classic line
Here is a shot of the 21 Classic.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/49721classic.jpg
Here is the 23 Classic
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/49723classic.jpg
John, didn't you guys try this before with the Lightning brand? Limited options etc? How come that didn't work? I thought it was a good idea to truly have a entry level custom boat. I love the look of th 23....

Kilrtoy
04-10-2006, 07:55 PM
Well here is my thoughts, Aftershock, Caliber1 & Cheetah alreay have that corner of the market.....
I think it would be a great disservice to the name ULTRA that YOU have worked so hard to bring to the forefront of west coast boating.
You are building a great product and I think you would be going backwards.
If you do do it, I wish you nothing but the best on this endeavor.

wsuwrhr
04-10-2006, 08:06 PM
I think it is a great idea.
Alot of auto makers do the same thing, even a upper echelon moniker like Mercedes Benz, they sell their 300(?) series as an entry level status auto.
Probably thinking once they get you into a Benz, your next one will likely be a Benz too.
Brian

Nubbs
04-10-2006, 08:13 PM
Great idea John. In my personal opinion, a lot of the newer custom boats have too much "bling" for my taste. A nice, solid boat, tastefully done without all the "bling" is definitely needed. So are you going to bring back the 21 XS?
Nubbs

INSman
04-10-2006, 08:16 PM
Everyone has to start somewhere, and what better way than to "Brand" a customer for life by selling them there very first top notch boat to enjoy. The 23' looks like a winner !!! :)

ULTRA28
04-10-2006, 08:59 PM
John, didn't you guys try this before with the Lightning brand? Limited options etc? How come that didn't work? I thought it was a good idea to truly have a entry level custom boat. I love the look of th 23....
The Lightning thing worked out OK. It just got to the point where Ultra and Lightning were competing for the same customer, because we would allow the customer to add any options they wanted. It became just as hard and time consuming to build the Lightning. I want to be able to afford to build this new line by keeping it more streamlined. Only offer a few graphics choices, but the customer can pick the colors. Interior would be done to match, but the customer would not be able to pick ever aspect of it, it would only be doen one way. There wouldn't be any options available other than maybe one upgrade package that would include all of the modt popular upgrades, thus limiting it down to just two different packages for the riggers to have to think about. Only offer two or three engine upgrades.
I plan on stocking a lot of these boats, so they are readily available.
Believe me, this won't be the boat for everybody, but it will allow people to get a brand new boat, semi-custom, at an affordable price.

RiverForUs
04-10-2006, 09:23 PM
EXCEPT THE PLASTIC CUP HOLDERS!!!! Looks way too cheap. Upgrade these and charge a few bucks more. I was this target market a few years back when I bought my Caliber 1 (for $8k less than a similarly equipped Shockwave). Was also looking at the Renegade but couldn't get past the cheap looking plastic cupholders! :yuk:

Charley
04-10-2006, 09:51 PM
awesome Idea John, the price of boats these days have to be frightening potential new boat owners in a big way.

Goodtime$
04-10-2006, 10:03 PM
I totally see the side Kilrtoy stated. Ultra boats isnt a bottom level boat mfg at all. However, like ski boats- You make a call, bring some cash and your wake shredding that day. For the first-time style buyer it makes sense as a business model. The only forceable problem would be differentiating the Ultra Custom Boat to the semi-custom production line.

flat broke
04-10-2006, 10:26 PM
I don't think the differentiation is a problem at all. A dedicated product line as John has described would be perfect. As long as quality of the hull and attention to proper rigging etc. isn't sacraficed in the quest to lower the pricepoint, its a win/win. Ultra gets cheaper inventory which means more boats on hand, which in turn equals more impulse buying. More bodies=more units, more units = more opportunities to upgrade down the road. As far as the "cheapening" of the name, I don't see it. If anything it adds more value to the boats that are outside of the "classic" line because now they are seen as upper level boats within that family. It definitely gives sales people a chance to do what they're supposed to.
IMHO, the cost of getting into what many would consider entry level boats from the west coast "custom" builders has gotten ridiculous. Considering that right on Ultra's site there is a relatively "no frills" 21 stealth listed for 44k and change. The new pricepoint for a similar boat that would offer identical utility and identical build quality at 11k less is a no brainer. That is a price that competes directly with cookie cutter "family wagons" but still gains the buyer admission to the "custom boat" party. And once they're at the party, they aint gonna want to leave.
Chris

buzzaro
04-11-2006, 04:46 AM
Well here is my thoughts, Aftershock, Caliber1 & Cheetah alreay have that corner of the market.....
I think it would be a great disservice to the name ULTRA that YOU have worked so hard to bring to the forefront of west coast boating.
You are building a great product and I think you would be going backwards.
If you do do it, I wish you nothing but the best on this endeavor.
As someone who is not involved with any of west coast boat mfg and having just gone through this, its more of a quality issue with the price than anything else. We had originaly found a Cheetah here in Sac and were looking at it, but we definately wondered why the price was signfificantly less than other similar boats that we were looking at, after doing some research we found out why. Now if Ultra were to have boats that were in both price ranges and you could see the reasons why some boats were less $ than the others, it would be a + to know you could get the same quality, good performance from a known manufacturer that will take care of you. Thats the way it seems to me from someone that just went through the process of buying our first boat. I dont think kilr is completely wrong in his statement, but your marketing should include info to negate this stigma towards this classic line.

SDLifesaver
04-11-2006, 06:19 AM
I'm thinking about coming out with an inexpensive boat line to offer. There was a guy selling a knock off of our old 21 LX at the show this weekend. I figured out how to do it and be able to sell them for only $32,900 with a Merc 5.0L (220 hp). The boat would only be available a certain way without the ability to even put options other then a couple of choices of engine upgrades. I'm also thinking about coming back out with the old 23 for something like $42,900 set up the same way. These boats wouldn't have billet steps or real trick interiors and they wouldn't have electric hatch lifts or aluminim cup holders. They would be a nice entry level (sort of custom) boat. I was planning on calling it our Classic line
Here is a shot of the 21 Classic.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/49721classic.jpg
Here is the 23 Classic
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/49723classic.jpg
I also think it is a great idea, but why can't you just sell one of your current models without any upgrades to keep the price down and not degrade the buyer with a "Classic Line" that everyone knows has no upgrades and costs' less money. I could see doing what you did before and creating a new boat company (Lightning) but if you are going to use the Ultra name, why create a new headache and just explain to people that less options brings the price down. Is there a quality difference in the hulls that would make the boats cheaper than a standard Ultra? 5/7 color gel coat is an industry standard so there is no cost difference. I apologize if sombody already asked these questions but I was just curious and who better to ask than the Boat Guy himself.

Boozer
04-11-2006, 07:00 AM
Thanks everybody. I'm going to go ahead with it then. I'll post some pictures and specs as it comes along. I don't think it will bring down the Ultra name, because it will be a separate line, kind of like the Stealth and Shadow line. It will be the Classic line. Yeah, we originally started the Lightning line off the same way, but I allowed people to upgrade them and customize them and it became just as much work as an Ultra, but cut into Ultra sales and profit. These boats will not generate a lot of profit, but will bring in more customers that currently can't afford a decent custom (semi-custom). Thanks again everybody. Without sounding like SPAM, I guess I will now now start taking orders if anybody is actually interested. :)
This is great news John. Assuming my new business venture does as well as I hope it will you'll be hearing from me in the next 6-9 months to make a purchase.

sigepmock
04-11-2006, 07:12 AM
We think it is a great idea. Good luck John!!! Now hurry up with the new deck! :)
Yeah what she said!!!!! :rollside:

jbtrailerjim
04-11-2006, 07:43 AM
I think it's a great idea. I think you will do real well with it at your dealer on the east coast. I'd be looking at signing up more dealers in some key boating area's back east. People back there don't seem to be hung up on all of the "Bling" items like west coaster's are. I think there definitely is a market for a boat like this. Nordic for example seems to do real well with offering a semi custom type boat for a not too outrageous price.
Let me know where you want to open your next store out of state. I'll send you my resume. ;) :cool:
Jim<----Want's out of Crowdifornia.

Partycattin
04-11-2006, 11:08 AM
Thanks everybody. I'm going to go ahead with it then. I'll post some pictures and specs as it comes along. I don't think it will bring down the Ultra name, because it will be a separate line, kind of like the Stealth and Shadow line. It will be the Classic line. Yeah, we originally started the Lightning line off the same way, but I allowed people to upgrade them and customize them and it became just as much work as an Ultra, but cut into Ultra sales and profit. These boats will not generate a lot of profit, but will bring in more customers that currently can't afford a decent custom (semi-custom). Thanks again everybody. Without sounding like SPAM, I guess I will now now start taking orders if anybody is actually interested. :)
Treat them right on the purchase and service with the entry level boat and they will likely come back to upgrade when they can afford it!

ULTRA28
04-11-2006, 04:54 PM
Well here is my thoughts, Aftershock, Caliber1 & Cheetah alreay have that corner of the market.....
I think it would be a great disservice to the name ULTRA that YOU have worked so hard to bring to the forefront of west coast boating.
You are building a great product and I think you would be going backwards.
If you do do it, I wish you nothing but the best on this endeavor.
Yeah, I thought about that, but the fact is that those comanys are selling a lot of boats and in some cases the customer still isn't even getting what they pay for. I'm hoping to offer a good boat at an affordable price by streamlining it. The economy isn't what it once was, but people are still going to want to do things with their familys. I figure that if I give them a good quality boat and treat them right, that they will be back to upgrade in the future.

shadow
04-11-2006, 05:05 PM
I figure that if I give them a good quality boat and treat them right, that they will be back to pgrade in the future.
I'll be back to "pgrade" in the future. :)

SOMEBEACH
04-11-2006, 05:11 PM
I'll be back to "pgrade" in the future as well !! :D

ULTRA28
04-11-2006, 05:12 PM
I also think it is a great idea, but why can't you just sell one of your current models without any upgrades to keep the price down and not degrade the buyer with a "Classic Line" that everyone knows has no upgrades and costs' less money. I could see doing what you did before and creating a new boat company (Lightning) but if you are going to use the Ultra name, why create a new headache and just explain to people that less options brings the price down. Is there a quality difference in the hulls that would make the boats cheaper than a standard Ultra? 5/7 color gel coat is an industry standard so there is no cost difference. I apologize if sombody already asked these questions but I was just curious and who better to ask than the Boat Guy himself.
Good point Nick. The only reason I thought about doing it this way was that it would be bringing back some molds I no longer use and not put a burden on the molds I am using. I was also worried that if I offered a stripped version of the curent models, that it would depreciate the boats that are already out there that have been sold with all the current options that already come on them. I could see one of my current customers trying to sell his two year old 21 Stealth for $40,000 and people not wanting to buy it because they can get a new one for under $35,000 even if the latter has less options.
Maybe I shouldn't call it the Classic line, but just give the 21 and 23 a different model name to set it apart from the past models that did come standard with all of the upgrades. I definately don't want people to feel degraded when they are on the water with their new boat.
One of the problems with coming out with a whole different name (company) like I did originally with Lightning is that there then becomes twice the advertising and I have to start all over again with name recoginition.
The boats won't be built with any less quality. The boat is just going to be easier to build by streamlining it and cutting out a lot of the labor intensive work (triple stitched interior, cup holders in the side panels, extensive graphics, etc) and cutting a lot of things that used to be considered options 10 years ago that have become standard now (billet steps, electric hatch lifts, pop up bow lights and cleats, electric fuel valves).

SDLifesaver
04-11-2006, 06:17 PM
Good point Nick. The only reason I thought about doing it this way was that it would be bringing back some molds I no longer use and not put a burden on the molds I am using. I was also worried that if I offered a stripped version of the curent models, that it would depreciate the boats that are already out there that have been sold with all the current options that already come on them. I could see one of my current customers trying to sell his two year old 21 Stealth for $40,000 and people not wanting to buy it because they can get a new one for under $35,000 even if the latter has less options.
Maybe I shouldn't call it the Classic line, but just give the 21 and 23 a different model name to set it apart from the past models that did come standard with all of the upgrades. I definately don't want people to feel degraded when they are on the water with their new boat.
One of the problems with coming out with a whole different name (company) like I did originally with Lightning is that there then becomes twice the advertising and I have to start all over again with name recoginition.
The boats won't be built with any less quality. The boat is just going to be easier to build by streamlining it and cutting out a lot of the labor intensive work (triple stitched interior, cup holders in the side panels, extensive graphics, etc) and cutting a lot of things that used to be considered options 10 years ago that have become standard now (billet steps, electric hatch lifts, pop up bow lights and cleats, electric fuel valves).
Thanks for the explanation John. All points covered and good luck with the new line. Nick

Mandelon
04-11-2006, 06:28 PM
What other boat companies are are doing this successfully?
Essex with their Laser line?
The 23 doesn't look like a "Classic," its still got great contemporary lines. I think of the Bayliner 19' when you mention the name "Classic." The 21' with its sharper windshield rise is more dated, but still is a style used by other builders today.
I think the idea is sound, just build them in popular colors and configurations and stock them ready to go. I wouldn't offer much for options except maybe a wakeboard tower and any easy bolt on items like a nicer swim step perhaps. I would stay with the aluminum cup holders though, the plastic ones are crap and the aluminum ones will only set you back a few dollars more anyway.
I think you'd get a lot of Aftershock buyers coming to your door if it was a genuine Ultra as opposed to a new name, just so long as the quality is there even with less options.

beyondhelpin
04-11-2006, 07:01 PM
If done right, I honestly believe you will do very well. As I am sure you are aware you need to tread very carefully. You have not only the "Classic" on the line but your established name on the line as well.
If you cant do it with Ultra quality dont do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Keep it simple and clean. This definatly applies to graphics and colors. Use good colors and pleasing graphics. This is the biggest reason I dont own a Nordic. Great boat but for the most part the graphics dont do anything for me. I think you will do very well in the central part of the country. We are not as bling oriented.
I personaly believe you need to keep the Classic label or something similiar to keep a certain amount of separation between the lines. For lack of a better example Camaro to Corvette. (Ok Nordic guys heres you chance to nail me on the Camaro)

slcbaker
04-11-2006, 08:22 PM
Sounds Weird, But There Are A Lot Of Things That Have To Be Said For A New Boat. My Wife And I Love The 28. However The Boat Pictured With Stock Power Is The Way. Hell Comparing Thse Prices To A Wake Board Boat, Or Even A Good Production Boat It Is A Dead Even Race. I Know This Will Work For Your Company Great Thinking. Good Luck. My Wife And I Still Need A 28....man I Hate Prop Kicking.

ULTRA28
04-11-2006, 08:48 PM
Thanks everybody. Looks like I'll have to come up with another name other than "Classic" then. It does make it sound like it's an outdated boat. I'm really going to have to pencil out how much it's going to cost to build and what to leave on. It sounds like I'll have to leave on the aluminum cup holders. The little things like that should set it apart from the others out there. Thanks again.

BoatFloating
04-11-2006, 08:58 PM
Thanks everybody. Looks like I'll have to come up with another name other than "Classic" then. It does make it sound like it's an outdated boat. I'm really going to have to pencil out how much it's going to cost to build and what to leave on. It sounds like I'll have to leave on the aluminum cup holders. The little things like that should set it apart from the others out there. Thanks again.
How about Ultra Retro.....

voodoomedman
04-11-2006, 09:21 PM
Thanks everybody. Looks like I'll have to come up with another name other than "Classic" then. It does make it sound like it's an outdated boat. I'm really going to have to pencil out how much it's going to cost to build and what to leave on. It sounds like I'll have to leave on the aluminum cup holders. The little things like that should set it apart from the others out there. Thanks again.
How about the "Valor" line? What do I win for naming your new line?

abraman1326
04-12-2006, 09:23 AM
Whatever you call it John it's a good idea. CAn't wait to see how they turn out. Let me kow as you get these closer to a reality. I'd love to be your Nor Cal voice after buying one. It is true that it will be very competative w/ the other lines out there in this price range, but you are offering a superior quality boat, and as word get's out, it could really explode for you. Please again, let me know as you get closer to making this a reality.
BRA

BarryMac
04-12-2006, 10:46 AM
Sounds like an awesome idea John.

beaverretriever
05-24-2006, 10:47 AM
My wife and I would definitley consider a bigger boat if we could swing the price. The 23 looks great. Like I said, we are looking at your Stealth 21, but the lakes that we frequent require a little more length for a good time. (that sounded bad, but you know what I mean) LOL :p
I agree that the name should be different. It needs to appeal to a younger crowd (with less money) because that will be the majority of your buyers for the line.
Here are a few names that I thought might be cool.
Factory Series. My favorite.
Flight Series.
Vapor.
Seraphic.
Trueline, Truline or just True.
Avenge. Getting back at all the other inexpensive boats...LOL

Brewzed
05-24-2006, 12:44 PM
I think its a sweet idea. You might want to think about offering a couple of different upgrade packages.
My wife used to work for Centex homes and they had a division called Fox and Jacobs. Both homes built by the same people, but Centex line you could upgrade anyway you wanted and the Fox and Jacobs line only has 4 different upgrade packages. If you picked a package, you got everything in the package, nothing more and nothing less for a fixed price.

SB
05-24-2006, 07:27 PM
As far as names, there is a sailboard company that sells last year's board with simpler graphics. They call it: GT Special, Type F, or Zen.
I seriously regret not signing up for a Lightning 4 years ago for $25k.
Look at the prices on some of the Sea Doos. If I could pick your boat with a BBC and jet, I'd much rather take that, even for a few thousand more.
I suggest you travel around the country a little. Here in FL, there are a million fishing boats in plain white. The high end graphics are really not necessary.

cc322
05-24-2006, 07:46 PM
I think It might work... If you do not combine the new line with the Ultra name, kinda like here it is here are the motor options, here are the gel optoins, take it or move up to a Ultra. You could always ask the Sanchez brothers how it's working for them.
http://www.essexboats.com/
http://www.laserboats.com/
Also wouldnt this 23 be more of the classic line? Wasent it yours at first?
http://www.renegadeperformanceboats.com/pages/23%20SS%20Cuddy.htm

77charger
05-24-2006, 08:12 PM
that 21 looks very similar to my eliminator its a early mid 90s.I could have spent more coin for a bigger boat but i prefer to have a boat that suits my needs.
I think you have a good idea there offering these two boats.If i were in the market for new i could do without all the fancy bling that seems to come standard at a way inflated price(like mentioned ealier billet steps,etc).Also offering a 350 as option in the 21 is a good choice gives the buyer a choice there some can get by without and some will want more power.

Scarab Jet
09-03-2006, 01:47 AM
If you could figure a way to do a version of the 21 Shadow Deck at a more attractive entry price, I bet UR phone will be ringing off the hook with guys wanting one... I know that I for one will get in line ASAP...
Mike...

SummitKarl
09-03-2006, 08:06 AM
WOO HOO!!!!! I could finally afford a new Ultra :cool:
seems this idea would work well on the old boaters too.. ;)

Classic Daycruiser
09-03-2006, 12:12 PM
I really don't think you could build this boat for under $40K. If you think you can do it for under $30, I'll visit you at the boat show. Although with the 220hp motor, your insurance cost might be slightly lower.

BarryMac
02-15-2007, 12:45 PM
John, have you given this project anymore thought? The season is here, wonder if you would get any more business from a venture like this???

boatnam2
02-15-2007, 02:05 PM
love the 23...

andy01
02-15-2007, 02:34 PM
love the 23...
A 23 would make a good raft for you......... :jawdrop:

DaddyMack
02-15-2007, 03:19 PM
23 is a winner!! :clover:

bocco
02-15-2007, 03:54 PM
I think that the engine options are the most important. If you have a well built hull with a decent engine then it's easy to buy new aluminum drink holders. Most all of the bling stuff could be added later if the owner wants to for not to much money.