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View Full Version : Sen. Zell Miller vs. Matthews



OGShocker
09-02-2004, 11:22 AM
Full interview from MSNBC/CNBC...OMG! (http://g.msn.com/0VD0/15/37?prepend=77ff0b06-ef9a-42a8-b329-9afcf270061f&autoStart=0&menu=News&menuItem=Business&list=hotvideo_topnews)
Zell was funny as s**t.

Dave C
09-02-2004, 12:38 PM
good stuff. especially the part about the dual. :rollside:

Froggystyle
09-02-2004, 04:07 PM
That is so kick ass.
I hate that I am so partisan, but it is weird... I just find myself agreeing with the Republican party 98% of the time. Parties aside, that is just my train of thought, and most likely reflects my upbringing or something esoteric like that.
Then something or someone like Miller comes along, and I find myself agreeing 100% with a Democrat. But I am going out here on a limb and suggesting that he is pretty much toeing a Republican party line... so I am back to Republican.
I am a moderate. Where is the box for that?

summerlove
09-02-2004, 04:30 PM
ZM is a fricking hipocrit! 2 years ago he was kerry's bud and supported him! WTF happened? How much did ZM get paid for that speech last night? A little over the top for me. Also, he lied his ass off! No credibility from me, but you republicans can go ahead and believe the load of crap coming from the RNC. I've bneen watching and frankly, I'm disappointed - a complete Kerry bashing! Too bad their not focusing on the issues - like the unprovoked war in Iraq, WMD's and oh, BTW, where the hell is Osama? Instead, they must be scared of November's election.
Give me a break.....
This guy has got to go. Anybody but Bush.... :yuk:

Jeanyus
09-02-2004, 04:59 PM
I think the point that the republicans are trying to make is, that as long as Bush is president, that terrorists are going to be persued, and hunted down like rabid dogs. No matter what country they reside in. Go ahead and complain about the economy, or lost jobs, or education, or social security.
None of those issues represent a threat to my families safety. Terrorism does.
Zell Miller is a great democrat. If you look at democrats from 30 years ago they are like ZM. Nowdays the Republicans have changed, and are like the old democrats. And the democrats have changed and are like socialists.
I say good job Zell, and good riddens Kerry.

Tinkerer
09-02-2004, 06:31 PM
Summerlove--
So what are we sapposed to do believe the lies and garbage coming from the Democratic sites.
YA RIGHT
If I went for a Job interview they would look at what I did the last 19 years not what I did 20 years ago for ONLY 4 MONTHS.....
And KERRY lied that has been proven.
Do you want another CLINTOON LIER???
I want an HONEST MAN in the big seat.
And a Religous man in that seat.
And I want a man that will put the fear of GOD and the USA in the TERRORISTS......

NorCal Gameshow
09-02-2004, 07:58 PM
ZM is a fricking hipocrit! 2 years ago he was kerry's bud and supported him! WTF happened? How much did ZM get paid for that speech last night? A little over the top for me. Also, he lied his ass off! No credibility from me, but you republicans can go ahead and believe the load of crap coming from the RNC. I've bneen watching and frankly, I'm disappointed - a complete Kerry bashing! Too bad their not focusing on the issues - like the unprovoked war in Iraq, WMD's and oh, BTW, where the hell is Osama? Instead, they must be scared of November's election.
Give me a break.....
This guy has got to go. Anybody but Bush.... :yuk:
"anybody but bush"
you're smarter than that statement(i hope) :D ...
sell me on your guys..instead of bashing cheney and the pres.
tell me why you want kerry/edwards, tell me what they are gonna do to make things better AND how they're gonna do it...

058
09-02-2004, 09:33 PM
"anybody but bush"
you're smarter than that statement(i hope) :D ...
sell me on your guys..instead of bashing cheney and the pres.
tell me why you want kerry/edwards, tell me what they are gonna do to make things better AND how they're gonna do it...
They Can't.... :rolleyes:

MagicMtnDan
09-02-2004, 10:03 PM
ZM is a fricking hipocrit! 2 years ago he was kerry's bud and supported him! WTF happened? How much did ZM get paid for that speech last night? A little over the top for me. Also, he lied his ass off! No credibility from me, but you republicans can go ahead and believe the load of crap coming from the RNC. I've bneen watching and frankly, I'm disappointed - a complete Kerry bashing! Too bad their not focusing on the issues - like the unprovoked war in Iraq, WMD's and oh, BTW, where the hell is Osama? Instead, they must be scared of November's election.
Give me a break.....
This guy has got to go. Anybody but Bush.... :yuk:
BLAH BLAH BLAH - how long you gonna play this liberal tune SL? We've heard it all before and it didn't play then and it ain't playing now. Give us some info on your John boys, oh wait, you can't because their ONLY plan is to bash Bush and Cheney and keep appealing to the far left wacko Bush haters.
You and Michael Moore ought to be proud of your war hero. Found a way to get out of Vietnam in a hurry so he could come back here and trash his fellow soldiers and accuse them of war atrocities. If he's the kind of man you want leading this country then I have some real reservations about your morals and ethics.
As for hypocrites (dude why you using words you can't even spell?!), you ought to know one - your boy Kerry is the biggest even seen - wants to be leader of the free world while voting against every significant military spending bill he's had in front of him. Get a grip dude. Why do you hate Bush so much that you're willing to vote for a slug like Kerry?

Essex502
09-03-2004, 05:42 AM
And KERRY lied that has been proven.
Exactly what has Kerry lied about that has been PROVEN false?
Kerry went to 'Nam....GW got a cushion assignment in the Texas Air National Guard. What did Cheney do during 'Nam....??? 5 deferments and college to be exact.

Essex502
09-03-2004, 05:43 AM
I think the point that the republicans are trying to make is, that as long as Bush is president, that terrorists are going to be persued, and hunted down like rabid dogs. No matter what country they reside in. Go ahead and complain about the economy, or lost jobs, or education, or social security.
None of those issues represent a threat to my families safety. Terrorism does.
Zell Miller is a great democrat. If you look at democrats from 30 years ago they are like ZM. Nowdays the Republicans have changed, and are like the old democrats. And the democrats have changed and are like socialists.
I say good job Zell, and good riddens Kerry.
When you're broke, out of a job, have no retirement to look forward to and your kids grow up stupid then don't blame Bush 'cause he was occupied with other issues.

Essex502
09-03-2004, 05:46 AM
"anybody but bush"
you're smarter than that statement(i hope) :D ...
sell me on your guys..instead of bashing cheney and the pres.
tell me why you want kerry/edwards, tell me what they are gonna do to make things better AND how they're gonna do it...
What EXACTLY has Bush/Cheney been saying about what they're gonna' do for improving the economy, reducing the trillions in national debt they are running-up, reforming social security as they promised (and promptly forgot), or a host of other domestic issues....they are way too focused on the war on terrorism and pretty much ignoring the domestic issues the country has.

Essex502
09-03-2004, 06:02 AM
BLAH BLAH BLAH - how long you gonna play this liberal tune SL? We've heard it all before and it didn't play then and it ain't playing now. Give us some info on your John boys, oh wait, you can't because their ONLY plan is to bash Bush and Cheney and keep appealing to the far left wacko Bush haters.
You and Michael Moore ought to be proud of your war hero. Found a way to get out of Vietnam in a hurry so he could come back here and trash his fellow soldiers and accuse them of war atrocities. If he's the kind of man you want leading this country then I have some real reservations about your morals and ethics.
As for hypocrites (dude why you using words you can't even spell?!), you ought to know one - your boy Kerry is the biggest even seen - wants to be leader of the free world while voting against every significant military spending bill he's had in front of him. Get a grip dude. Why do you hate Bush so much that you're willing to vote for a slug like Kerry?
The rhetoric on Kerry's voting record for military spending is being distorted:
"The Bush campaign bases its claim mainly on Kerry's votes against overall Pentagon money bills in 1990, 1995 and 1996, but these were not votes against specific weapons. And in fact, Kerry voted for Pentagon authorization bills in 16 of the 19 years he's been in the Senate. So even by the Bush campaign's twisted logic, Kerry should -- on balance -- be called a supporter of the "vital" weapons, more so than an opponent."
"It is true that when Kerry first ran for the Senate in 1984 he did call specifically for canceling the AH-64 Apache helicopter, but once elected he opposed mainly such strategic weapons as Trident nuclear missiles and space-based anti-ballistic systems. And Richard Cheney himself, who is now Vice President but who then was Secretary of Defense, also proposed canceling the Apache helicopter program five years after Kerry did. As Cheney told the House Armed Services Committee on Aug. 13, 1989:
Cheney: The Army, as I indicated in my earlier testimony, recommended to me that we keep a robust Apache helicopter program going forward, AH-64; . . . I forced the Army to make choices. I said, "You can't have all three. We don't have the money for all three." So I recommended that we cancel the AH-64 program two years out. That would save $1.6 billion in procurement and $200 million in spares over the next five years.
Two years later Cheney's Pentagon budget also proposed elimination of further production of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle as well. It was among 81 Pentagon programs targeted for termination, including the F-14 and F-16 aircraft. "Cheney decided the military already has enough of these weapons," the Boston Globe reported at the time.
Does that make Cheney an opponent of "weapons vital to winning the war on terror?" Of course not. But by the Bush campaign's logic, Cheney himself would be vulnerable to just such a charge, and so would Bush's father, who was president at the time."
"Kerry's voting record on military spending was defended March 18 by Republican Sen. John McCain. He said on CBS's "The Early Show:"
McCain: 'No, I do not believe that he is, quote, weak on defense. He's responsible for his voting record, as we are all responsible for our records, and he'll have to explain it. But, no, I do not believe that he is necessarily weak on defense.' "
Not my words but those of the folks that investigate this stuff.

Essex502
09-03-2004, 06:03 AM
ZM is a fricking hipocrit! 2 years ago he was kerry's bud and supported him! WTF happened? How much did ZM get paid for that speech last night? A little over the top for me. Also, he lied his ass off! No credibility from me, but you republicans can go ahead and believe the load of crap coming from the RNC. I've bneen watching and frankly, I'm disappointed - a complete Kerry bashing! Too bad their not focusing on the issues - like the unprovoked war in Iraq, WMD's and oh, BTW, where the hell is Osama? Instead, they must be scared of November's election.
Give me a break.....
This guy has got to go. Anybody but Bush.... :yuk:
SL....I think that Zell is pissed that Gore ignored his advisors that wanted to include Zell on the Gore ticket for 2000. He's been huddled with the Republics and ignoring the Democratic caucuses ever since.
Now...I am a Republican but facts are facts.

Dave C
09-03-2004, 07:56 AM
OK facts are facts.
here is one.
federal unemployment is now down to 5.4%; up 144,000 jobs in 8/04.DOL (http://www.dol.gov/)
very close to natural rate of 5%.......... at this rate we will be there by 11/04
I think that y'all should stop beating that drum on this one but that is just one person's opinion. ;)

Dave C
09-03-2004, 07:58 AM
Kerry did vote against the $87 billion for the troops in Iraq. thats well documented.
what's actually kind of funny is after the democrats attack Bush directly and via their surrogates with some mean vitriol, they have the nerve to pretend their offended when Bush & Co finally hit back.
Sounds hypocritical.
but ain't politics grand. Don't get to upset now... they were ASKING FOR IT...
The rhetoric on Kerry's voting record for military spending is being distorted:
"The Bush campaign bases its claim mainly on Kerry's votes against overall Pentagon money bills in 1990, 1995 and 1996, but these were not votes against specific weapons. And in fact, Kerry voted for Pentagon authorization bills in 16 of the 19 years he's been in the Senate. So even by the Bush campaign's twisted logic, Kerry should -- on balance -- be called a supporter of the "vital" weapons, more so than an opponent."
"It is true that when Kerry first ran for the Senate in 1984 he did call specifically for canceling the AH-64 Apache helicopter, but once elected he opposed mainly such strategic weapons as Trident nuclear missiles and space-based anti-ballistic systems. And Richard Cheney himself, who is now Vice President but who then was Secretary of Defense, also proposed canceling the Apache helicopter program five years after Kerry did. As Cheney told the House Armed Services Committee on Aug. 13, 1989:
Cheney: The Army, as I indicated in my earlier testimony, recommended to me that we keep a robust Apache helicopter program going forward, AH-64; . . . I forced the Army to make choices. I said, "You can't have all three. We don't have the money for all three." So I recommended that we cancel the AH-64 program two years out. That would save $1.6 billion in procurement and $200 million in spares over the next five years.
Two years later Cheney's Pentagon budget also proposed elimination of further production of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle as well. It was among 81 Pentagon programs targeted for termination, including the F-14 and F-16 aircraft. "Cheney decided the military already has enough of these weapons," the Boston Globe reported at the time.
Does that make Cheney an opponent of "weapons vital to winning the war on terror?" Of course not. But by the Bush campaign's logic, Cheney himself would be vulnerable to just such a charge, and so would Bush's father, who was president at the time."
"Kerry's voting record on military spending was defended March 18 by Republican Sen. John McCain. He said on CBS's "The Early Show:"
McCain: 'No, I do not believe that he is, quote, weak on defense. He's responsible for his voting record, as we are all responsible for our records, and he'll have to explain it. But, no, I do not believe that he is necessarily weak on defense.' "
Not my words but those of the folks that investigate this stuff.

Froggystyle
09-03-2004, 08:20 AM
A statesman's first responsibility is to get elected.
Bush and Kerry are both trying to do that right now. The big difference in my mind is that Kerry is trying to bash bush for things he has done, and pump himself up for things he himself hasn't.
Bush, to the contrary is bashing Kerry because of things he has done, and talking frankly about things that he himself has accomplished. Short of a short stint in Vietnam (my hat is off to him...) he has done nothing of note for the last 30 years, and has done a lot to attempt to degrade the effectiveness of the American military.
I don't have a problem with him running on a reduced spending platform. If he was honest, that is what he would do. He thinks the military should be smaller, and best kept at home. He is trying to be the commander in chief, and as commander in chief he wants to make his military smaller. Run on that. You will get votes.
You will also lose big time and he knows it. The face he is putting towards the campaign is not his true identity, except the indecisiveness and bitterness. I'm pretty sure that is him. America doesn't want a weak military, and we don't wish to suborn our safety to the UN. The fact is Kerry has do remember job #1 of a statesman, and his views preclude him getting elected to the highest office of the United States government, so he is getting new views to try to make a run for it.
He is transparent. I don't like him, and I won't vote for him, but let's face it, the wheels aren't going to come off of America if he gets elected. One man only has so much power. He has a Republican congress to deal with. I would worry about the liberal judges he would appoint more than his presence in the office. I would worry far more about bills that would get signed with him in office, and decisions that would be made with regard to defense of our nation.
He is not a menace to America, he is just not the best choice.

HighRoller
09-03-2004, 10:02 AM
Exactly what has Kerry lied about that has been PROVEN false? Two words...CAM-BODIA :D Even his own campaign admits he lied about that.
When you're broke, out of a job, have no retirement to look forward to and your kids grow up stupid then don't blame Bush 'cause he was occupied with other issues.
Exactly. Blame yourself. Do you, as a person with half a brain, think it's the President's job to get you a job, educate your kids, put money in the bank for a rainy day and wipe your ass? Give it a rest. When did we start blaming politicians for problems caused by a lack of personal responsibility?
We already tried giving government a chance to provide for retirement. It's called Social Insecurity, and it will be bankrupt in 2017. BTW, the Democrats are responsible for that disaster so don't even mention Bush's name.
We already tried letting the Government run the schools, and they are failing miserably because the teachers' union will not let go of the monopoly. Without competition they have no incentive to acheive.
Your statements are sad, Essex, especially because you obviously know what it takes to acheive enough to have a boat and a nice lifestyle. We used to be a nation of people who prided themselves on being self-reliant. Now we're all standing there with our hands out or asking a politician how he can make our lives better. I, for one, choose not to give those Washington losers any power over my life. I don't care who is President,(even Kerry) my kids will never be stupid, I will always have a job, and I'll retire a millionaire. And my pride, not the government, will make that happen.

HighRoller
09-03-2004, 10:15 AM
Damn, sorry. I was gonna comment about Chris Matthews too. This guy is a joke. I call his show "Softball" or "Tee-Ball with Chris Matthews". He somehow presents himself as a "down the middle" commentator...yeah right! The guy is the biggest Democrat apologist there is, which was clearly illustrated by that clip. Contrast that clip with the night John Kerry was on and you'll puke! Matthews was almost genuflecting to Kerry, then started serving up the softballs straight from the DNC talking points. There was no combativeness, no controversial questions, and Matthews' was saying "right" and nodding his head in agreement while Kerry spewed his rhetoric. No wonder MessNBC has sucky ratings...

Dr. Eagle
09-03-2004, 11:46 AM
Mr. Miller takes no prisoners...... I listened to that yesterday on the radio and it was a great slam... I thought he shut down Chris Matthews pretty effectively. :D

OGShocker
09-06-2004, 05:48 PM
ZM is a fricking hipocrit! 2 years ago he was kerry's bud and supported him! WTF happened? How much did ZM get paid for that speech last night? A little over the top for me. Also, he lied his ass off! No credibility from me, but you republicans can go ahead and believe the load of crap coming from the RNC. I've bneen watching and frankly, I'm disappointed - a complete Kerry bashing! Too bad their not focusing on the issues - like the unprovoked war in Iraq, WMD's and oh, BTW, where the hell is Osama? Instead, they must be scared of November's election.
Give me a break.....
This guy has got to go. Anybody but Bush.... :yuk:
Why is Jeffords "brave" and Sen. Miller is a "hypocrite"? Did not Sen. Miller RAKE GHW Bush over the coals in 1992...YES! Hypocrisy, to me, comes from the fingers of someone that says my taxes should be higher, then WASTES taxpayers money by posting to a boating forum during his working hours at his government job! :burningm:
You are such the typical lib. This entire post is BS! are you scared? can you feel the shift in momentum?
I can't believe you would use the 3000+ dead from attacks on this great country and then say "Anybody but Bush".
You do not live in a 9-10 WORLD!

Jeanyus
09-06-2004, 07:04 PM
When you're broke, out of a job, have no retirement to look forward to and your kids grow up stupid then don't blame Bush 'cause he was occupied with other issues.
I have been in construction all my life , and while others would complain about bieng out of work, I have always had plenty.
My kids all graduated in the top of thier classes, and all are gainfully employed. Because I disciplined my children, taught them to respect thier teachers, and got involved with their education. I have a retirement plan, and it does not include social security, I figure they will be broke by the time I retire. My mother collects social security $800, a month if you think you can live on that amount of income when you retire, I think you a in for a rude awakening. Like I said before I dont think the SS issue is life threatening.
I any one thinks that Kerry is going to save social security, or somehow make up for bad parenting. Then I would like to sell them the London Bridge.
The thing that I want the president of the US to do today is protect our country, and persue those who have taken a vow to destroy it.

Essex502
09-07-2004, 07:04 AM
Two words...CAM-BODIA :D Even his own campaign admits he lied about that.
Exactly. Blame yourself. Do you, as a person with half a brain, think it's the President's job to get you a job, educate your kids, put money in the bank for a rainy day and wipe your ass? Give it a rest. When did we start blaming politicians for problems caused by a lack of personal responsibility?
We already tried giving government a chance to provide for retirement. It's called Social Insecurity, and it will be bankrupt in 2017. BTW, the Democrats are responsible for that disaster so don't even mention Bush's name.
We already tried letting the Government run the schools, and they are failing miserably because the teachers' union will not let go of the monopoly. Without competition they have no incentive to acheive.
Your statements are sad, Essex, especially because you obviously know what it takes to acheive enough to have a boat and a nice lifestyle. We used to be a nation of people who prided themselves on being self-reliant. Now we're all standing there with our hands out or asking a politician how he can make our lives better. I, for one, choose not to give those Washington losers any power over my life. I don't care who is President,(even Kerry) my kids will never be stupid, I will always have a job, and I'll retire a millionaire. And my pride, not the government, will make that happen.
And exactly what do you do for a living HR...??? What's sad is fools like you who take the bite of the apple someone offers without thinking for yourself. Do you really think that private schools can be provided for everyone? What about the Social Security payments you probably aren't making? Others who do expect at least some return on their government taxes.
Yes, I've made a nice lifestyle for myself and my wife - who by the helps does quite nicely for herself - and don't feel sad at all by your pathetic attempt to portray me as "sad". You're the sad prick who thinks he is "santimonious". Hardly.

Essex502
09-07-2004, 07:08 AM
I have been in construction all my life , and while others would complain about bieng out of work, I have always had plenty.
My kids all graduated in the top of thier classes, and all are gainfully employed. Because I disciplined my children, taught them to respect thier teachers, and got involved with their education. I have a retirement plan, and it does not include social security, I figure they will be broke by the time I retire. My mother collects social security $800, a month if you think you can live on that amount of income when you retire, I think you a in for a rude awakening. Like I said before I dont think the SS issue is life threatening.
I any one thinks that Kerry is going to save social security, or somehow make up for bad parenting. Then I would like to sell them the London Bridge.
The thing that I want the president of the US to do today is protect our country, and persue those who have taken a vow to destroy it.
Jeanie...good for you...it's the same with me as well though I don't intend to have children to send to school. I also don't plan to "retire" on social security but do plan to retire within the next five years to a nice live provided for entirely by my own labors. My point is that most folks in the U.S. are not as fortunate as we may be and do rely on the social programs that are being gutted to to HUGE national debt - being run up at this point by an administration bent on winning an unwinable war in Iraq while deficit spending.

Froggystyle
09-07-2004, 07:54 AM
My point is that most folks in the U.S. are not as fortunate as we may be and do rely on the social programs that are being gutted to to HUGE national debt - being run up at this point by an administration bent on winning an unwinable war in Iraq while deficit spending.
Boy do we ever disagree here. I would gut every single social program we have for a single plane to defend our country with.
I have little compassion for those who can't make it work.
Federal Government should be defense, intelligence, courts and lawmakers. Throw some federal police officers in like the FBI for national cases and go from there.
State government should do even less. Fire departments, roads and schools.
I hate special interest groups. It represents everything that is going wrong with America.

OGShocker
09-07-2004, 08:09 AM
Boy do we ever disagree here. I would gut every single social program we have for a single plane to defend our country with.
Amen brother! :rollside:

Jeanyus
09-07-2004, 08:28 AM
I'm with Froggy on this one. When it comes to goverment, thier role should be safety of the citizens, and protection of our country. When the government steps in and takes over any part of our lives it becomes a bueracratic mess. The local citizens are better at taking care of themselves, than rich politicians. If you live in America and you are not working, it's because you don't want to. Or you think you are to good to do certian jobs.Or in some cases disabled. I know a person that is unemployed, always complaining about the economy, and how we need to unionize all labor, and the government should step in and make things equal.
The fact is he does not want to work and is lazy. He has not filled out a job application in 5 years. The guy obviosly eats as he is overwieght.
People who persevere, will be sucessfull. In a democracy they should have a choice weather or not the want to feed people who dont want to get off the couch.

Froggystyle
09-07-2004, 09:19 AM
My best freind is stuck living with some hippies right now. It is interesting to hear them bitch about social programs going away, and the free ride they have been receiving while in massage school is now not available.
These people complain like an air raid siren. The obvious solution to how to possibly overcome their problems is to get a job. We are talking about 24-28 year old people who have been professional students their whole lives. When you even suggest that they are going to need to get a job... the look... you absolutely can't imagine it. "But I'm going to school?????"
I had two jobs while in college. One was as a night janitor cleaning office buildings. The other was prepping for paint for a contractor. Both paid well and had flexible schedules. I also worked my ass off.
Hug my nuts hippies...

eliminatedsprinter
09-07-2004, 12:15 PM
ZM is a fricking hipocrit! 2 years ago he was kerry's bud and supported him! WTF happened? How much did ZM get paid for that speech last night? A little over the top for me. Also, he lied his ass off! No credibility from me, but you republicans can go ahead and believe the load of crap coming from the RNC. I've bneen watching and frankly, I'm disappointed - a complete Kerry bashing! Too bad their not focusing on the issues - like the unprovoked war in Iraq, WMD's and oh, BTW, where the hell is Osama? Instead, they must be scared of November's election.
Give me a break.....
This guy has got to go. Anybody but Bush.... :yuk:
I've never been a fan of Zel Miller. I agree he is a hypocrite. But I think he is one for sucking up to his party bosses for so long and waiting until his final term in office when he no longer needs the help and support of the party, to say what he really thinks. However, I do know how he feels. Years ago I registered as a Democrat, because I am a huge supporter of civil rights and individual liberties. I was suckerd in by their B.S. talk and after being and activist and working on several Democrats campaigns, I started to see how phony their talk of such things is and all they really cared about was getting the power to force their leftist views on all of us. From what I saw indiviual liberty was their enemy, not their cause. So I am out, I haven't changed my registration, but I will most likely never vote for one again.

Havasu Cig
09-07-2004, 02:43 PM
BLAH BLAH BLAH - how long you gonna play this liberal tune SL? We've heard it all before and it didn't play then and it ain't playing now. Give us some info on your John boys, oh wait, you can't because their ONLY plan is to bash Bush and Cheney and keep appealing to the far left wacko Bush haters.
You and Michael Moore ought to be proud of your war hero. Found a way to get out of Vietnam in a hurry so he could come back here and trash his fellow soldiers and accuse them of war atrocities. If he's the kind of man you want leading this country then I have some real reservations about your morals and ethics.
As for hypocrites (dude why you using words you can't even spell?!), you ought to know one - your boy Kerry is the biggest even seen - wants to be leader of the free world while voting against every significant military spending bill he's had in front of him. Get a grip dude. Why do you hate Bush so much that you're willing to vote for a slug like Kerry?
I agree, but please don't refer to Kerry as a "soldier". As a former soldier I don't want to be assiciated with him. He was on a boat in the Navy and therefor was not a soldier. Now back to the thread... ;)

OGShocker
09-07-2004, 03:15 PM
I agree, but please don't refer to Kerry as a "soldier". As a former soldier I don't want to be assiciated with him. He was on a boat in the Navy and therefor was not a soldier. Now back to the thread... ;)
Do you prefer "squidick"?
Sorry froggy ;)

Froggystyle
09-08-2004, 10:37 AM
Do you prefer "squidick"?
Sorry froggy ;)
Dang... I don't want to take any responsibility for him either.
Call him a shoe...

Froggystyle
09-08-2004, 10:40 AM
I agree, but please don't refer to Kerry as a "soldier". As a former soldier I don't want to be assiciated with him. He was on a boat in the Navy and therefor was not a soldier. Now back to the thread... ;)
Keep this kind of talk up... and we are going to have problems Cig! ;)
I know what you mean, but I am going to go out on a limb here and call myself a soldier... Navy or not. I hate Kerry, but the brown water Navy guys had some real balls. They had to drive lightly armored boats up and down what amounted to ambush central in support of our operations. We take such great pains to never patrol a path that is expected. We never take trails, because they make great ambush spots. These poor bastards KNEW they were sitting ducks for an ambush and did it anyway. I respect most of them.
Kerry sounds like he was a real tool, but he was a Swift boat guy, and as such I give him more props than a normal turd sitting on a boat out in the Gulf of Tonkin.

eliminatedsprinter
09-08-2004, 11:34 AM
When you're broke, out of a job, have no retirement to look forward to and your kids grow up stupid then don't blame Bush 'cause he was occupied with other issues.
Of course I wouldn't blame bush, unless he raised taxes and made it harder for us to afford those things. After all, it's not the President or the Federal Government's role to create jobs, provide for our retirement, and educate our kids. The latter is the only one of these things that any level of gov should do and even that is open to honest debate.
P.S. My kid is in and I am a big supporter of public schools. I just don't think the Federal gov should be nearly as involved as it is in them. Besides, (just to join you in playing a little Devil's advocate) the most literate nation in the New World (Barbados 99%) dosen't even have pubilc schools and I have read that a score of 1300 on the SAT is near avg there.

Froggystyle
09-08-2004, 11:43 AM
Of course I wouldn't blame bush, unless he raised taxes and made it harder for us to afford those things. After all, it's not the President or the Federal Government's role to create jobs, provide for our retirement, and educate our kids. The latter is the only one of these things that any level of gov should do and even that is open to honest debate.
P.S. My kid is in and I am a big supporter of public schools. I just don't think the Federal gov should be nearly as involved as it is in them. Besides, (just to join you in playing a little Devil's advocate) the most literate nation in the New World (Barbados 99%) dosen't even have pubilc schools and I have read that a score of 1300 on the SAT is near avg there.
If I ever have kids... (not bloody likely) they will never see the inside of a public school. That is a fact.

eliminatedsprinter
09-08-2004, 11:59 AM
If I ever have kids... (not bloody likely) they will never see the inside of a public school. That is a fact.
My son has done well in P.S. I have made quite a bit of effort to get him into the best ones. There are many good public schools and just like everything else out there, the kids and the parents get out what they put in. I feel that the people who blame the public schools for their kids failures are no different than those who blame their lack of economic success on the lack of good welfare programs.

Essex502
09-08-2004, 12:01 PM
Of course I wouldn't blame bush, unless he raised taxes and made it harder for us to afford those things. After all, it's not the President or the Federal Government's role to create jobs, provide for our retirement, and educate our kids. The latter is the only one of these things that any level of gov should do and even that is open to honest debate.
P.S. My kid is in and I am a big supporter of public schools. I just don't think the Federal gov should be nearly as involved as it is in them. Besides, (just to join you in playing a little Devil's advocate) the most literate nation in the New World (Barbados 99%) dosen't even have pubilc schools and I have read that a score of 1300 on the SAT is near avg there.
I agree it isn't the government's job to provide jobs, schooling nor retirement but then they shouldn't be taxing me for these items if they're not to provide them. If we are to be taxed for these social programs then the administration should be addressing the concerns of the populace regarding these programs. My point is that the Bush administration is NOT focused on the domestic programs such as social security and the general economy.
As for Barbados...I haven't a clue where they stand on literacy...do they manufacture anything or strictly a tourism economy? Literate hotel operators are very important. :D

eliminatedsprinter
09-08-2004, 12:25 PM
My point is that the Bush administration is NOT focused on the domestic programs such as social security and the general economy.
As for Barbados...I haven't a clue where they stand on literacy...do they manufacture anything or strictly a tourism economy? Literate hotel operators are very important. :D
I'm glad they are not, because when the politicians do focus on such things, they usually mess them up. You should see what a mess the last administration made of the agencies it chose to "re-invent".
Tourisim is big in Barbados. They also grow suger and manufacture electrical equipment and clothing. Immigrants from Barbados who come here do quite well and tend to perform above white americians economically (at about the same level as Aisians, Jews, and Swiss etc). Of course, there really are not a lot of them, because it is a small country and it's pretty nice there.

Froggystyle
09-08-2004, 12:50 PM
My son has done well in P.S. I have made quite a bit of effort to get him into the best ones. There are many good public schools and just like everything else out there, the kids and the parents get out what they put in. I feel that the people who blame the public schools for their kids failures are no different than those who blame their lack of economic success on the lack of good welfare programs.
Maybe so, and I am glad you have had success with the PS system, but I still don't trust it.
Too much regulation. I don't like the policies they are supporting either. The pace is horrible in my experience, and the teachers are not very well paid.
In short, I have taken a publicly funded motorcycle safety course, and one that I paid for. While the public one was adequate, and covered enough of the basics to show me what to learn and take it from there, the Keith Code school I took was amazing, although expensive and the Penguin school was even better. Both were expensive, complete and focused on a great student to teacher ratio, lots of practical time and a much better setting as both were at a racetrack instead of basically a parking lot.
Every experience I have ever had that I did both, a public school vs. a private school, I got more out of the private instruction. I can't see that my imaginary future kid's education would be any different.
Just my .02. I am not saying you can't make it work, I am saying that there are means of tipping the odds in your favor.
I can't stomach the thought of a kid being taught the lowest common denominator method so prevalent in schools today.

eliminatedsprinter
09-08-2004, 01:18 PM
Maybe so, and I am glad you have had success with the PS system, but I still don't trust it.
Too much regulation. I don't like the policies they are supporting either. The pace is horrible in my experience, and the teachers are not very well paid.
In short, I have taken a publicly funded motorcycle safety course, and one that I paid for. While the public one was adequate, and covered enough of the basics to show me what to learn and take it from there, the Keith Code school I took was amazing, although expensive and the Penguin school was even better. Both were expensive, complete and focused on a great student to teacher ratio, lots of practical time and a much better setting as both were at a racetrack instead of basically a parking lot.
Every experience I have ever had that I did both, a public school vs. a private school, I got more out of the private instruction. I can't see that my imaginary future kid's education would be any different.
Just my .02. I am not saying you can't make it work, I am saying that there are means of tipping the odds in your favor.
I can't stomach the thought of a kid being taught the lowest common denominator method so prevalent in schools today.
There are advantages to private schools, but better trained and paid teachers are not among them. Most of the teachers in private schools are those who can't get the better pay and beni's of the public schools. They usually don't have full credentials and can't get perminant status in public schools. Does that make them bad teachers? No. There are some great private school teachers. In fact, they are often retired public school teachers who just want to supplement their retirement with a less difficult private teaching job. But it is a fact, that in every U.S. state the private schools have lower pay and required hiring standards than the public schools. My kid has had very good teachers, who were more than willing to stuff his head with as much information as he was willing to try to put in it. They have also been more than willing to call me or meet with me, either before or after school, to discuss even the slightest problem and even to give me some good news. I live in one of the citys with the worst managed school districts there is ( L.A.U.S.D.), yet my son's teachers have been great and my son is doing fine. He is starting tomorrow in a middle school that this year lead the state in it's test scores. It feeds into Granada Hills High School which is L.A.U.S.D.'s only charter high school and is among the best performing schools in the nation academically (pretty good in sports also). It's free and I'd be a fool to waste my money elsewhere, unless he has a problem where he is.

Havasu Cig
09-08-2004, 06:25 PM
Keep this kind of talk up... and we are going to have problems Cig! ;)
I know what you mean, but I am going to go out on a limb here and call myself a soldier... Navy or not. I hate Kerry, but the brown water Navy guys had some real balls. They had to drive lightly armored boats up and down what amounted to ambush central in support of our operations. We take such great pains to never patrol a path that is expected. We never take trails, because they make great ambush spots. These poor bastards KNEW they were sitting ducks for an ambush and did it anyway. I respect most of them.
Kerry sounds like he was a real tool, but he was a Swift boat guy, and as such I give him more props than a normal turd sitting on a boat out in the Gulf of Tonkin.
Not taking anything away from anybody that served, simply stating a fact. I agree that being a SEAL is closer to being a soldier than a sailor, but they still probably called you guys sailors. I have plenty of relatives that were in the Navy and they were known as sailors. In the Army we were called soldiers, in the Marines you are a Marine, the Air Force an Airman and so on. Just trying to make a point that everybody seems to refer to all service members as Soldiers. Be proud whatever branch you served. ;) :cool:

pops1
09-09-2004, 11:49 AM
ZM is a fricking hipocrit! 2 years ago he was kerry's bud and supported him! WTF happened? How much did ZM get paid for that speech last night? A little over the top for me. Also, he lied his ass off! No credibility from me, but you republicans can go ahead and believe the load of crap coming from the RNC. I've bneen watching and frankly, I'm disappointed - a complete Kerry bashing! Too bad their not focusing on the issues - like the unprovoked war in Iraq, WMD's and oh, BTW, where the hell is Osama? Instead, they must be scared of November's election.
Give me a break.....
This guy has got to go. Anybody but Bush.... :yuk:
If you study so much, you would know Zel was L/Gov for 12 years, won and was elected Gov. for 8 more. He retired and was asked to replace a dem. senator who had died. It was at this point Zel started to learn the diff. between managing goverment (local) and political goverment (Senator). What he started out was being a good Democrat (prior 9/11) what he learned was HIS party was stuffing "do good bills" and squeezing the Rep's to accept them in order to pass the security ammendments required to counter the Terrorism. Zel's point was from the heart of a long term serving Democrate not some political power A/Hole "who sold out his band of brothers" for a political arena. Zel is a John Kennedy Democrat with fiscal responsabilities as I am. Yet that party has allowed itself to keep going to the feel good's like Ted Kennedy who did not have the Balls to get Mary Jo out of the car and left her there to drown & shows up the next day in a $15.00 neck foam brace, saying I don't remember.
Jimmy Carter (who I Voted For) the one who started this whole "Weak Image of Americans", leaving our Hostages in Iran for 376 days captive. Screwed up the entire Goverment causing massive inflation and 22 percent interest on loans to business and such. Allow's the French trained Mohamid P**Head Accult Leader to go in and take over the goverment of Iran and install the A**wipes we are now fighting "who by the way" may now have nukes.
I don't remember if that was before or after he gave the Panama Canal "AWAY" to Norrigia who Bush Sr. had to take down for Drugs.
Oh and let me tell you about our great entertainment People. Linda Ronstat, the Eagles and such. all of them said we had to support our Dem.for Gov. Jerry Brown, people did and ended up with "MOONBEAM" and his L/Gov. was that ass the Gov. the people just RECALLED from california. Linda after dating Moonbeam and not getting enough pickle from Jerry, goe's to the press in Cal. and say's Moonbeam is a FAG. Her words not mine.
You don't study you just vote a ticket as I did at one time with Jimmie & Moonbeam. Don't even think of reading Tommy Frank's Book, you won't like that Solders truth about todays players and the get it done people who love our freedom and carry his respect.
You have seen Great Americans UNDER GREAT LEADERSHIP respond to what was a attempt to distroy our entire Goverment in one day- Our White House, the Pentagone, and our Financial Centers the twin Towers. What A Bold Bold Strike! What a Great Great President to Identify and take them down one at a time. Its not over yet. Iran has to be handled with others or they change.
Sadammmmmmm was caught trying to plot a Kill on our president "George Bush Sr" That alone is cause for war with or without any other reason. I also remember that every Iraq battle posistion we took- had chemical suits in them. Why would Iraq military have such suits unless they thought a need!
As to Osama- He is a pimp like his GOD- 72 Virgins- "Hay Michal get me 72 more un-touched young girl's for this fine KILLER!
In L.A. and my book, He is a Pimp. It is a CULT-One that teaches false gods.
Osama- Dead or Dying in need of fresh blood- Terrorist Camps, Teachers, States, Country's- Osama A Pimp -killing all there youth who follow, taking away each country's future.
You have seen this country bounce back under Bush in financial & military, while finding and killing those that were behind this. Yet with bush we have been keeping on with the things of every day. Now you want some smuck Kerry to lead us.
Kerry is a internationalist who faked his injury's of war, caused those caught in prison camp's to listen to the Viet Cong play to the prisoners "Kerry's speach to the Senate" -over & over again. He "Missed" every one of the sessions on terror in the senate, which he was a setting member of. His wife give's thru her foundations $ that go to the bottom of the pits of society.
Both his wife's were wealthy(clue), Your new second lady married it, she did not make it! She is not a Heinz, She is another Show Girl like Georga that owned the L.A.Rams. His VP came from a poor family made a small fortune in CLASS ACTION Suits. The same thing that is Killing Doctors and the Medical profession today.
Read before you VOTE & not the Times.

ROZ
09-09-2004, 12:24 PM
. If we are to be taxed for these social programs then the administration should be addressing the concerns of the populace regarding these programs.
It's my understanding that our communities elect officials to run their school systems. There in lies the local corruption that brought your schools down.
The problem is that the administrators, no matter political afiliation, in these programs have well spent the money on anything but what it's to be spent on. I sell products to schools. You'd be VERY surprised on just how much money is wasted just to make sure they have an inflated budget for the following year. The system was set up for failure due to personal gain.
Want a perfect example? There are many School superintendents who have their schoolboards in his pocket. In my community the board is blind and does whatever the guy says... to the tune of a high six figure income with a criminal pension plan. Our community just completed it's second highschool. San Diego City School's superintendent makes considerably less when you add the doller per school and responsibility.
Last year's school budget crisis made bold headlines in our community. San Diego City Schools was going to have to cut several programs and jobs. They did it, too. No single person lost his job though. As a matter of fact, they hired a few more administrative people. What they cust was a portion of the POTENTIAL INFLATED emplyoment positions and program numbers that they have been riding on for YEARS!
Money is pinched at the bottom because it's over spent at the top. For that our children will suffer.
One more thing, our So Cal schools really are plagued with the illegal immigrant. Imagine how much better our so cal schools would perform on national tests if the dollars going to illegals went into strenghtening our schools.