.08vs.10

[Wicky]

about $8 MILLION a year would be my guess!
IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY!! .O8 IS ****ING BULLSHIT. I WEIGH 165. 2 BEERS AND I'M .08!!
DON'T LET THEIR ALCOHOL CHARTS FOOL YA. IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY. IF IT WASN'T,
WHY AREN'T THERE COPS SITTING OUTSIDE EACH AND EVERY BAR OFFERING FREE RIDES
HOME? IF IT WAS TRULY ABOUT SAVING LIVES AS THEY CLAIM THIS IS WHAT THEY
WOULD BE DOING. OBVIOUSLY THEY WOULDN'T HAVE JOBS IF THEY DID THIS THOUGH.
IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY!! I WISH I HAD THE FIGURES TO SHOW YOU ALL HOW MANY
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF REVENUE WAS GENERATED BY CALIFORNIA GOING TO .08. I
HAVE TWO FRIENDS I GREW UP WITH WHO ARE NOW COPS. THEY TOO, KNOW ITS
ABOUT THE MONEY. SAVING LIVES...BULLSHIT!!
THEY GOT US BY THE BALLS GENTLEMEN AND WE ELECTED THE BASTARDS. CIVIL WAR
IS NOT FAR OFF!! IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN. MARK MY WORDS.
IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME. THE MORE THEY TAKE AWAY THE MORE THERE WILL BE
TO FIGHT FOR. START BUYING YOUR GUNS NOW BEFORE THEY MAKE THOSE ILLEGAL TOO!!
TIRED OF ALL THE CRAP-AND I VOTE TO.
WICKY

[EDROE]

Hey Wacky, take a Valume man! Wash it down with a cold one!

[beached1]

Wicky's .08 when he wakes up in the morning. Oh wait, it's 1:37 am and i'm shitfaced! I'll be .08 too!! Woohooo! http://www.goldenplasma.f2s.com/forum/smilies/happy45.gif

[jroos]

Go away Wickey. Eggbeater.

[Wicky]

Sorry, I'm just being realistic and it's at least .23% Beached, Jroos, and whatever, obviously you guys enjoy having other people tell you how to live. Some things in life are just too obvious. I choose to live free by obeying most laws. I can't wait until the "Authorities" tell you that you're not allowed on your lake because there is a yellow legged frog that lives there and it is more important than YOUR freedom therfore you're not allowed to boat there!! .08 is just the beginning. Yes, it is all about money. Money=Freedom. Just ask anyone who doesn't have any or somebody who does.
Time to forget everthing I just said,
I going to the lake. Drinking lots o beer,
and spanking some big blocks
Wicky

[EDROE]

Hey Wacky, that frog wont stop us. He is gonna look pretty jacked up after he goes through my pump. Maybe if you got yourself a woman and spank her a few times you could quit thinking about spanking us guys all the time. Talk to Barney he seems to have extra women just lying around, maybe he could loan you one.

[jroos]

EDROE, he`s gay.

[Wicky]

Originally posted by jroos:
EDROE, he`s gay.

[Wicky]

Well, looks like Edroe has come out of the closet.hehe

[dankirk]

I posted this on the other board, but I'll post it here, too.
On average, your BAC increases .02% per drink per hour. So, 3 beers in an hour would get most people to .06%, while 4 would get you to .08%. Would any of you drive your car with your kids in the back seat after drinking 4 beers within an hour? I hope not. I think the .08% limit is a fair and honest point at which most people are too impaired to drive. It's not about the money, it's about saving lives.

[Wicky]

Boooosheet!! Tell that to the Judge!!
Keep believing what you want, but its all about the MONEY!! Yous kinda ignorant der mr
Dank!! 4 beers in one hour. Ya right!!
U must be a cop on dui patrol!!
[This message has been edited by Wicky (edited September 02, 2001).]

[hoolign]

is the .08 a new thing, never heard of
it,here in alberta if you make it home and only hit 2-3 parked cars they give you a credit on your licence

[jroos]

Wickey, why are you so gay? Dankirk, sounds as if you`re a cop. If so, don`t try and sell me on that bullshit. And yes after 4 beers in an hour, I would drive with my kids in the car( if I had any). Well in reality I don`t know about kids `cause I don`t have any yet. It will probably change my whole way of thinking, I hope. We had a class in the service on alcohol. A volunteer from my company(Ft. Stewart, GA, Eco.4thMSB) got to get loaded. It showed breathilizer results after each beer and over time. It amazed the shit outa me. This guy was from Hawaii, built , probably 195, and full of homemade tats during the mid 80`s when they weren`t popular yet. He was deffinatly impaired. But after waiting 20 min. intervals, his level decreased. This was no mistake, `cause I was actually witnessing it! It showed that at .08 and waiting 20min, he dropped below that. For everyone out there, the police wait at least 20min.(if anything it takes longer in the back of the car to get there and then get processed) before the test is administerred. If you ain`t f`d up then it ain`t gonna show, PERIOD! Remember that alcohol has the same EFFECT on everyone, but has a different AFFECT on everyone(ie: bodyweight, eating habbits, smoker, physical activity, metabolism, and yes of course GENETICS.). Problem is that the breathilizer is the only test platform we have right now. IT DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT ANY OTHER VARIABLES EXCEPT WHAT ALCOHOL IS IN YOUR BLOODSTREAM! And that`s how it works, you breathe in, blood vessels in your lungs carry O2, and you breathe out exhaust gases. I could be mistaken but I think that only 3%, that`s right 3% of the alcohol you drink can be sweated out. That meens your liver is the only other way to get rid of it! And it can only dispose of 1 ounce of alcohol per hour for so many hours before it takes a break and continues. And after knowing all this, yes, I love drinkin` beer.
Now, after knowing these facts and understanding that there are a hell of a lot more variables in determining someone`s actual alcohol level, why is there the same old breath test? Because it makes TOO DAMN MUCH MONEY TO CHANGE IT! Just like the war on drugs. What a ****in` joke. We can build all this shit, put a man on the moon in the60`s no less, but we can`t stop drugs. We even kicked Suddam`s ass half way around the world without notice, had video from the actual bombs but can`t stop drugs. Get real pal. The drug trade generates more doe than any other entity known to man. It`s a ****in` money thing and now I`m pissed. Cops are just doin` they`re job. Don`t blame them they are human too. If the cop that stops you is pissed then you go if not have a good night and don`t let me see you again tonight or else you are going to jail. What a ****in` system. And remember this in closing, you ain`t done nothin` wrong unless you get caught. Just ask any cop. Case and point. Sorry for the vulgarity people, I apologize. Damn, ain`t nothin` like that sound,,,,,PPPSSSSSTTTTTT!
Bud Light in a bottle and a jet at full throttle! See ya on tha lake BOYZ!

[Wicky]

Thanks Hooligan!! First laugh I've had since this post began!! It was legal to drink beer in the car in Idaho only up to a year ago.
I hate it when that happens. It's all about the money. Like I said before, if it was about saving lives then why not offer free rides home. Answer: because there aint no money in it!!
Take two and call me in the morning,
Wicky

[jroos]

Wickey, I also apologize to you. This is the common ground that ALL BOATERS need to hear to. This thing is not gonna go away. Eggbeaters and jets unite! Taht`s why you look out for one another on the water or the road. That is your defense.

[Wicky]

Jroos,
I have two kids.
I remember when I was in high school we could get away with partying and not getting in too much trouble if we got caught. The cops would confiscate our beer and other items, put it in their trunks, and told us if they caught us again we would be making some phone calls to our parents. Five years later I meet the same cops off-duty and I found out what they did with what they confiscated.
Now, with so many new laws affecting "Fun",
I'm worried my kids will get into trouble with the law for doing the same innocent things I did when I was younger.
There was a study released this week by NHTSA
about elderly drivers. The deaths associated
with fatal crashes involving elderly drivers will surpass that of fatalities involved with alcohol related crashes.
Watch out for the blue sign,
Wicky

[jroos]

Wickey, I`m 34, graduated in `85 at 17. Yeah, kids can`t have fun anymore, or at least in the suburbs. And don`t even think of the city. More laws are not the answer. Obviously or it would have worked. You see, MADD is alright for them. It gives these people purpose for their lose. They are crusaders, I am a rebel. i stand alone. I don`t need an Army. I want an army now though. DAMM. Drunks Against MAD MOTHERS. Any body wanna join? I am sorry that little Johnny died by a drunk driver. Be it his friend behind the wheel or another driver. But what stats don`t tell are wether or not Johnny was drunk too. I bet he was. Shit happens in life. I lost my father when I was 12. He died of sirossis! Should I hate alcohol or join a cult that protests beer and alcohol manufacturers? NO! I have to live with the cards and the time in which they are dealt. I`m not mad at the world. Just what society has put on lawmakers to make such foolish choices. And I`m mad at what lawmakers think they are entitled to make. But most of all my rebellious life has been directed towards people that think that the law doesn`t include "them". What the **** ever happened to protect and serve? Most cops can kiss my happy ass. Well some say without them you would be screwed and crime would be catostrophic. Survival of the fittest is what I say to that. Most cops I know ( at least here in Louisiana where things are done just a little bit differently) are fat ****s. Couldn`t catch a ****in` rat in a box if they didn`t have 12 of them present, which they always do. When I was in the service they kicked assholes out that couldn`t pass the PT test(Phycical Training). Shouldn`t cops be given the same type of test? Hell, every GOD damn US citizen expected his/her ****in` tax dollars that I made to be spent wisely. If I was a puke and couldn`t defend every rat ****in` puke on this great ****in` continent then I was held accountable and considered shit. So that`s why I say it is us against cops. Because they don`t consider themselves servants for the people or their ****in` country.

[Wicky]

DAMM. Drunks Against MAD MOTHERS. Any body wanna join?
That bumper sticker could probably make someone millions$$. Nice work jroos!!
Wicky

[Hallett of a Dream]

I'm originally from California, been there 24 years, but have been transplanted to Pennsylvania due to my wife. But this .08 deal, are they strictly imposing that in autos or is that going for the boating thing too? I was just curious. A lot of the lakes out here are patrolled, some with alcohol restrictions, but as long as you aren't acting like an asshole and getting dangerous, they wont bother you.

[LVjetboy]

.08 law is a classic case of over-reaction...driven by special interest (ie. MADD) groups. Some people are impaired at .08, but truth is, the majority of really BAD accidents are caused by people at .20 or greater. Just check the statistics.
Driving while sleepy and driving while OLD are much bigger threats to safety than .08, but the elderly have an inherent lobby of their own. After all, who could deny poor grandma's right to drive??? Again, just check the statistics.
The point is, "they" now have authority to really f**k up your life with fines and suspended licensing, all the time letting a much LARGER safety threat go totally free. Our government at it's best!
BTW, I've never had a DUI or BUI,
jer

[Wicky]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by EDROE:
[B]Hey Wacky, that frog wont stop us. He is gonna look pretty jacked up after he goes through my pump.
Hey edroe, they are shutting down that lake entirely. Can't fish. Can't ski. Can't do jack shit except look from a distance with all the other bird watchers. If caught near the water you get to dole out a cool $100k for the fine. Now lets talk who's talking wacky!
Hey dank, sounds like they have you pretty well brainwashed for you are a soldier of safety!! Go get em!!
No propaganda here,
Wicky
[This message has been edited by Wicky (edited September 03, 2001).]

[058]

Hey guys, How would you like to live with .04 b/a? I do because I have a class 1 CDL. and I am held to those standards all the time even when I drive a car, boat or bicycle. The reason[?] behind that rule is I'm suppose to know better because I'm a professonal driver. I take taxi cabs and never refuse the offer of a designated driver. If I'm caught and tested with .04+ b/a not only I deal with the court system and all the bullshit you guys will go thru when caught but I will also have to deal with my commerical truck insurance, in other words my ins. rates more than double than the present rate now of app. $6000.00/annually and it stays on my record for 10 years, not 7 and the ins. cos. also hold it against you for this time. Does it stop me from drinking and driving? You better beleive it does.

[Wicky]

Sounds like if you had enough money to pay for all of those increases and you knew you could pay a good enough lawyer to get you off in court you wouldn't have a problem. It's all about the money,
Wicky
P.S. Drinking beer has now become a rich man's sport!!
[This message has been edited by Wicky (edited September 03, 2001).]

[Bubbledeck2]

058 you might want to do a little more research on the .04 bac. I asked CHP and they told me that the .04 bac only applied when operating a commercial vehicle. I have not seen anything in writing though.

[058]

Bubbledeck, You may be right but when all the CDL laws changed several years ago I asked the "proper authorities" and was told it applied to whatever you drove. My quote about being a "professonal driver" was the words of the gentleman I spoke to. I do hope you are right and it was overturned, I'll be a little more at ease when I pop a Lite at the lake.

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Wicky:
Sorry, I'm just being realistic ...obviously you guys enjoy having other people tell you how to live.
Wicky,
As everyone knows, I try to keep it pretty light around here, and stick to boats. I usually bite my tongue when a post irritates me. However, I will make an exception for you.
We live in a society. This means you either play by the rules, or you don't. We all know what happens when you don't- you get punished- maybe it's your freedom, maybe it's monetarily. However, we are lucky enough to live in a society where we can make a difference. It's called a democracy. It's not perfect, but it's changeable.
Guys like dankirk may be brainwashed, but that's his job. I would not want someone enforcing my laws if he didn't believe in them. Yes, they are "my" laws (all of ours), because we elected the lawmakers. Without lawmakers and enforcement (like dankirk), in true anarchy, your class would be the first to go.
Since you believe so strongly in this, let's examine your options:
1. Do something about it- Fight back! A silent majority would not be heard, so perhaps a grass-roots effort to change the laws. Maybe a letter writing campaign to congress or the senate, or get involved come election time. Elect someone that shares your views. Or maybe put together events (such as BBSPIII) with the proceeds going toward your campaign to raise the BAC back to .10. Grass-root campaigns don't take money- they take commitment. Part of that commitment is finding sponsors. MADD and the Sierra Club started the same way.
2. Do nothing about it- You can just sit around the message boards and post your opinions, and look for sympathy. Perhaps you could relocate to another country that shares your views.
As it sits right now, you come across as a bitter, little old man, sitting on your porch in Idaho, talking about the "good old days", complaining about the Sierra club, alcohol laws, gun control, being discriminated against for being 165lbs, and how "the man" is trying to take your money.
I commend you for uniting boaters under your "Big Block Spanking Party". I look forward to your next post. I hope it is encouraging everyone to pursue option #1, rather that sitting around whining about "the man keeping you down". After 11 posts and 3 threads, it's starting to get old.
Sorry guys...it was bugging me.
http://www.websitemonster.com/images/pimp.gif

[Wicky]

You are so right HH. Sorry I have deviated from the norm. I'm delighted that you are happy with your rights. I'm glad you enjoy paying payroll taxes. I'm glad you enjoy paying income taxes. I'm glad you enjoy having someone telling you how to live. My whole point in this is that everday it seems as if more places are being shutdown, more money is being taken from me to pay for some stupid ****ing program or stupid land purchase to save some stupid ****ing kangaroo rat.I ask you HH. Do you own your own business?
If so, how would you like the govt to tell you how to run it?
Did you hear that starting in 2007 there will be no pleasurecraft over 18 ft allowed on Lake Havasu? Why? Because, some beaurocrat in Washington whos never been to Havasu thought it was a good idea. Do you have any idea how difficult it is to repeal a law HH?
It aint easy.
When more than half of my income is taken away in taxes, believe me I vote.
For anyone who has studied term limits you should vote for them, for it is a career politician that hasn't a clue about what the real world is like. The govt is a business and needs to be treated as such. Right now, we have very few real businessmen in DC. All we have are career politicians. Hell,
HH I told my wife I was going to run for mayor in the next ten years. Maybe I will have to up it just a little bit. Would you vote for me HH?
Wicky
P.S. I was just joking about the 18ft law in 2007 at Havasu. But don't be suprised if it happens someday. So far, I can think of four places that have been restricted since I was a kid. Glamis/Nylands, Dumount, Pismo, Barstow to Vegas. Right now the DFG is trying to shut down all of the Channel Islands to all fishing. This shit scares me my friend.
Open your eyes HH!!
Alright back to spanking big blocks!

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Wicky:
...My whole point in this is ...Would you vote for me HH?...Open your eyes HH!!
My eyes are open, Wicky. The scary thing is, I agree with some of your points. FYI- some of those assumptions you make about my personal opinions and circumstances may not be true.
My point is, how many posts does it take to complain? Wouldn't it be more productive to name specific questionable legislation, and try to stop it? For instance, ".08" started years ago- where were you (and the rest of us) then?
For example, the AZHB site has been active in recruiting boaters for attendance at the Powell/PWC hearings:PWC Legislation (http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=19246&article=12766&date_query=998547662)
So I gotta ask you, are you rallying the troops, or just whining?
I personally would follow someone who leads, not whines. Before you run for Mayor, ask yourself, "am I a doer, or a whiner?" I'll vote for a doer any day.
http://www.websitemonster.com/images/pimp.gif

[jroos]

Would anyone vote for me? I`m gonna run for President. President of what you ask. Of the United States of America, what else? And I don`t give a half a kangaroo rat`s ass if my posts are not grammatically correct!

[dankirk]

058, your .04% only applies while operating a commercial vehicle, 23152(d)v.c.
Now, since I am "brainwashed", I will offer only facts, not opinions. Make your own decisions.
Fact: CA dropped the legal limit from 0.10% to 0.08% in 1990.
Fact: in 1989 due to alcohol related collisions there were 2,509 killed and 63,937 injured.
Fact: in 1999 due to alcohol related collisions there were 1,170 killed and 29,833 injured.
More facts can be found here:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/about/profile/rd/resnotes/baclimit.htm
Maybe some of the lives that were saved are people who are close to you.
[This message has been edited by dankirk (edited September 03, 2001).]

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by dankirk:
Now, since I am "brainwashed"...Make your own decisions.
Sorry, dankirk. How about "informed" or "knowledgable".
http://www.goldenplasma.f2s.com/forum/smilies/happy25.gif

[058]

Thanks Dankirk, As I posted before I only went by what was told to me by a well informed source at the time the laws were changed. Its a bit more comforting to know that at least I'm being treated more fairly while driving a car or boat.

[LVjetboy]

California's 0.08% BAC Limit and Administrative License Suspension Laws Working to Deter Drunk Driving Accidents
by Patrice Rogers
"There were no reductions in total HBD accidents attributable to the 0.08% law."
Sleep impacts reaction time as much as alcohol BY MITCH LESLIE:
"Comparing the two groups on seven measures of reaction time -- including average time, maximum time, and average of the ten fastest times -- showed a surprising degree of impairment in the (sleep deprived) patients. On all seven measures, their results were worse than those of the drinking group at a blood alcohol level of 0.057 percent. And on three measures, the (sleep deprived) patients scored as badly or worse than the drinkers who were legally (.08) drunk. "That really stunned us," Powell said."
Affects of age on accidents…
"Accident statistics show that there's an accelerated risk in personal automobile accidents beginning at age 65, with a fatality rate . . . 17 times that of the 25-65 age group," said Susan Samson, Getting in Gear's project director.
We recently had a woman get rear-ended (and paralyzed) by a drunk driver who was way over .10 He'd been cited many other times for DUI (all over .10) but still had a license. .08 wouldn't have helped her. My guess is the majority of fatal accidents involving alcohol are caused by drivers well over .10
Maybe better enforcement of licensing, to include more thorough testing of older drivers would save more lives than punishing social drinkers?
jer

[dankirk]

From the NHTSA web site:
THE MERITS OF A .08 BAC PER SE LAW FOR ADULT DRIVERS
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) recommends that all states and the District of Columbia establish .08 BAC as the illegal limit per se for drivers aged 21 and older for the following reasons:
(1) Virtually all drivers are substantially impaired at .08 BAC. Laboratory and test track research shows that the vast majority of drivers, even experienced drinkers, are impaired at .08 with regard to critical driving tasks. There are significant decrements in performance in areas such as braking, steering, lane changing, judgement and divided attention at .08 BAC. Studies report that performance decrements in some of these tasks are as high as 60%-70% at .08 BAC.
(2) The risk of being involved in a crash increases substantially by .08 BAC. The risk of being in a crash gradually increases at each BAC level, but rises very rapidly after a driver reaches or exceeds .08 BAC compared to drivers with no alcohol in their blood systems. Research by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety indicates that the relative risk of being killed in a single vehicle crash for drivers at BACs between .05 and .09 is 11 times that of drivers at .00 BAC (no alcohol).
(3) Lowering the per se limit is a proven effective countermeasure which will reduce alcohol-related traffic fatalities. There is evidence from California that significant reductions in alcohol-related fatalities occurred in 1990 (a 12% reduction), the year .08 and an administrative license revocation law went into effect. A study by Boston University compared five states that lowered their illegal limit from .10 to .08 with five states that did not do so. They found a 16% reduction in the proportion of fatal crashes involving fatally injured drivers whose BACs were .08 or higher in the five .08 states. That same study showed an 18% reduction in the proportion of fatal crashes involving fatally injured drivers at very high BACs (.15 or higher) in those .08 states. A 1995 NHTSA study found significant decreases in four states that adopted .08 on nine measures of alcohol-related fatalities. Decreases in alcohol-related fatalities ranged from 4% to 40% in those states analyzed.
(4) .08 is a reasonable level to set the limit. A .08 BAC is not typically reached with a couple of beers after work or a glass or two of wine with dinner. The average 170 pound male would have to consume more than four 12oz. cans of beer within 1 hour on an empty stomach to reach .08 BAC. The average 137 pound female would need at least three cans of beer in one hour on an empty stomach to reach that level. That female driver would need 4 equivalent drinks over a 2 hour period to get above .08 BAC and the male would need 5 equivalent drinks.
(5) The public supports levels below .10 BAC. NHTSA surveys show that most people would not drive after consuming 2 or 3 drinks in an hour and believe the limit should be no higher than that. Recent polls show that 2 out of every 3 Americans favor lowering the limit to .08 when they are aware of how much alcohol it takes to reach that level.
(6) Most other industrialized nations have set BAC limits at .08 or lower and have had these laws in place for many years. For example, Canada and Great Britain set their limits at .08--as do Austria and Switzerland. All States in Australia now have a .05 limit. France and Germany recently lowered their limit to .05, while Sweden's illegal limit is .02 BAC.

[Wicky]

"Germany recently lowered their limit to .05"
Yeah, but they've got the Autobahn to make up for it!!
Hell, if we had an autobahn I think we'd all give up drinking and just stick to driving.
Good research LV and Dank.
Too bad its still all about the money.
Time to roll some sushi,
Wicky

[dankirk]

Ya, but how much German beer does it take to get you to .05? Can you believe Sweden? They must really have a problem there.
[This message has been edited by dankirk (edited September 04, 2001).]

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by dankirk:
All States in Australia now have a .05 limit.
I think this may be a misprint- I believe if you get caught driving BELOW .05 in Australia, they take you away...
http://www.goldenplasma.f2s.com/forum/smilies/happy25.gif

[LVjetboy]

Ut oh...now you've done it Wicky. We get the speed kills lecture.

[LVjetboy]

The thing is, none of us want our safety or the security of our expensive toys threatened by the poor judgment of those sharing the road with us. At the same time MOST of us want to keep our freedom to make our own judgment about safety and risk we are willing to take. Stricter laws mean trade-offs and limiting personal freedom to enjoy certain activities, whether that be having a drink at the lake or running your boat up to speed. Running my jet at speed means taking a certain amount of risk, but if a speed limit is imposed on the lake, the law says I no longer have the right to make that call. Each time the BAC drops the law takes away a little more of our freedom to use our judgment, however good or poor that may be.
I’ve read the reports on testing and seen the statistics (some slanted one way or another depending on the reporting agencies agenda) and in MY OPINION, I am willing to risk sharing the road with .10 or less drivers to maintain my freedom in return. By the same token, I’d welcome change to laws that focus on repeat offenders and licensing requirements (age for example) which focus on groups who I believe can be a larger threat to my security on the road…but who for whatever political reasons are not being targeted.
jer

[Wicky]

LV,
Remind me to buy you a beer at BBSP3.
Spoken with style my friend!
Wicky
P.S. I'll buy one for dankirk as well!!

[dankirk]

Sounds good to me! Make it a Sam Adams.
[This message has been edited by dankirk (edited September 04, 2001).]