Things 2 look 4

[victorfb]

ok, i'm sure this has been asked many times, but i wasnt paying attention. :notam: and i know some of you other jet guys have seen this.
last weekend i ran the boat mild (cruised all weekend) but on monday morning after cruising up to the sand bar i look back and see oil all over my motor and transum.(from the breathers) and it seems to be mixed with water :sqeyes: . after checking the dip stick i noticed some tan fluff up on the stick but the oil didnt look too bad as of yet. floated back with only the couple times having to start it and idle away from the weeds and it idled fine, sounded good actually. got back to the trailer and the oil was still not milky but definatly signs of water. the only thing i did different was to increase the amount of water to the headers a bit, but very minimal. oil out the breathers normally tells me too much crank case presure (broken rings, hole in piston, ect), but with the added water its a whole new ball game. what things should i be looking for while i tear it down? i know the intake could have lost a gasket and allow the water in the lifter valley, but the oil out the breather throws me off. like i said, it seems to idel nice so im not sure about having a vacume leak if the intake gasket blew. i will be attacking this later this evening, so i havnt yet did any comp. checks or anything as of yet. just thought id ask first for things to look at. any help would be very appreciated.
thanks..victor

[Wally_Gator]

Victor,
It's a longshot.. Are you running a pressure regulator between your pump and the motor? If not you can run too much pressure into the block and introduce water via an intake gasket or even a head gasket.
But using the k.i.s.s. method, I think I am way off (k.eep i.t s.imple s.tupid)
Another thought... A small amount of water reversion, not enough to hydrolock but after shutdown, the water would leak past the rings?...
Increased volume in the crankcase (water) as well as steam from water in there could cause the oil on the transom..

[victorfb]

Wally.
i am running a pressure regulator, but have not put a guage on it as of yet. though the amount of water coming from the exit line isnt excesive. guage will be going on after this for sure though.
you may be on to something with the water reversion though as i did increase the amount of water going to the headers via the banderlog valve, and i have the valve coming on too soon as i see water dripping from the weep holes at idle. i will put the jumper on the banderlog valve to increase the rpm point of opening.
thanks for the tips and keep them coming if you think of anything else.

[hondajoey]

How many hours do you have on the motor, maybe the rings havent seated?
my valve covers dont have the baffles in them and they spew out a quit a bit of oil and I am 99% sure there is not any problems with my motor so i put a catch can with a vent. so now it is doesnt cover the motor or the back of the boat , a little oil seems to cover a lot of motor & boat.
Just a thought
P.S i sent you out a check for that scoop, it only took me a month to send it to you hope you still have it.

[victorfb]

the motor was actually broken in on the truck for about 4500 miles then installed into the boat,and about 20 to 30 hours run time in the boat. so the rings im sure are seated. i wasnt having any problems with the oil coming from the breathers untill this past weekend, and only on that last run. i was cruising 3500 rpm with maybe a 4000 rpm hit now and then. not sure if the oil came out when i took off after idling out the marina, or sometime in the 5 minute run up to the sand bar. i did notice alot of water coming from the weep holes in the headers while idling out so i tried to roll the throttle instead of romping on it when i went to take off. lake martinez has alot of sand and i did have to clean the banderlog screen a couple times, so im thinking the sand may have messed with the pressure regulator. not sure though. looks like i have my work cut out for myself.
and yes i still have the scoop. its all yours man. i dont back out on a deal. i didnt get anything in the mail on monday, and i am not at home for a couple days, so please be patient with me and ill get it out to you as soon as possible. ill let you know as soon as i send it out and give you a tracking number.

[Danhercules]

I think the water in the oil is due to the increase of water to the system. I had this problem too, I turned down my water and I never got any more water in the oil untill I sunk it! LOL
The oil out the breathers? I dont know, I get some, but I drive on the hard side, I know you baby yours so I dont know. I would take a leak down test to see if its in your rings or somthing. Hell, its only oil, just keep adding!!! :idea:

[hondajoey]

and yes i still have the scoop. its all yours man. i dont back out on a deal. i didnt get anything in the mail on monday, and i am not at home for a couple days, so please be patient with me and ill get it out to you as soon as possible. ill let you know as soon as i send it out and give you a tracking number.[/QUOTE]
Im not worried, i was picking on myself for taking so long to send it out to you. by the way i saw some pics of your boat somewhere on the board here it looks good and some of the polished goodies you made for it, ill try to get some of my rig after i get the scoop posted up here.

[Hotcrusader76]

Victor...
Definitely consider running a pressure guage on the regulator. I use an XRP union with a 1/8" tap, it fits perfectly inline and would require no modifications. Easy day.
You can blow an intake gasket near the water outlets without any adverse affects on idling and performance, despite the increase in engine temp or water in the oil. Definitely add Marine grade 'black' silicone this time around to seal those head faces to the intake gasket. I normally clean it thoroughly with acetone just before that as well. Clean...clean..clean..you know the drill.
That theory of water reversion makes good sense. When you and I were idling out of Martinez on Saturday I noticed alot more water at idle coming from the weep holes on the STBD side also. It could have been an accumulation of water over the weekend and Monday's mild WOT run to the sandbar that did it...No?
Good luck bro.
~Ty

[Rexone]

Victor being that you increased the header water and the problem started I'd look there first. Also condensation can fool you on the inside of the valve covers. I'd suspect this since your oil isn't milky. If the breathers have foam in them and you get a bunch of condensation it plugs them up and may cause you to blow some oil. If the engine is running well I would check all these things out before tearing anything down. It may just be a header water or condensation issue (or both).

[victorfb]

well i really am hoping it is just the header water that is the culprit. i still am not totally understanding how it all ties together though. water entering the exhaust and going were to get into the oil? through the chamber and passed the rings? or up through the valve stem? i guess my main concern is why am i blowing oil out the breathers? water or no water its still not good. my breathers are the old tall style and there is no foam in them. just the zig zag ports.
i understand that the intake could have blown a gasket near the water jacket. and this would certianly explain the water in the oil, i just dont understand how that would make the oil blow out the breathers.
i did use the black silicone around the water jackets and hi-tack all around the rest of the intake gasket. its how ive allways done it. but that doesnt mean it didnt seal or hold a seal. i will definatly be installing a guage to show me exactly whats happening from now on. and the jumper on the banderlog valve so it come on at 2000rpm instead of 1500rpm.
thanks for all the tips and suggestions guys. keep them coming if you think of anything else. all i had time to do this evening was wash the boat and motor down, but atleast its clean to start working on it. ill do that tomorrow.

[Rexone]

I have no idea how much water you're talkin about here Victor but if its enough to raise the oil level substantially the crank windage can catch it and foam it up to a point where it will definately spit some out. Also oil mixed with water is more prone to foam up anyway. Just a thought.
Too much header water will get by the rings into the oil.
btw, from your first post... tan fluff up on the stick but oil not too bad... symptoms of condensation inside the motor after sitting all night in a moist environment. Need to understand how much water we're talkin about here. If its just on the upper stick and valve covers OR if all the oil in the pan is milky and the oil level is up from prior to water problem.

[LVjetboy]

Put a water pressure gage on it. Only way to know for sure. Go from there.
Tearing the engine down? Why? You may be surprised how much water in oil an engine can endure w/o the need for an immediate teardown.
Oil out breather? May or may not be related. Start with the basics...put a gage on it.
jer

[victorfb]

all very informative advice. thank you so much guys. as for a good guage on the water presure, would a liquid filled 0-60 work ok? i have a mooneyes one that matches the rest of my guages. id rather have a 0-30 but they dont make one.
the water in the headers is sounding more and more like the problem as i know ive been getting water dripping from the weepholes at idle for a while and after turning it up just a tad im sure i made it worse. i will be redesigning and re-adjusting the system now for sure.
thanks again guys. i really appreciate all the advice and help.

[LVjetboy]

0-60 will work fine, liquid filled (or electric dampened) is great.
On my old 454, I had water in the oil one season and thought for sure it was the headers...water spitting out the weep holes at idle, etc. Monkeyed with injection flow, injection rpm, etc until I managed to color my headers...still water in oil.
Eventually I put a gage on it and found if I ran anything over about 10 psi full throttle, it would leak the seals and put water in the oil. A weak internal head or intake seal causing the problem. So my options were pull the intake and heads, check mating surfaces for warpage or other problems if ok then replace all the seals...or...run it with weak seals at reduced pressure. Using the gage I adjusted flow to keep pressure down, but still enough flow to limit temp to no more than 190 F at idle...the oil dried and stayed dry.
Ran two more seasons like that with no more oil in water then pulled the engine. No excessive wear from the milkshake incident.
Not to say your problem is not header injection related, just check all the angles before concluding one or the other.
That and...if you limit full throttle pressure by valve instead of regulator, make sure you don't reduce flow too much. You need enough flow at idle to keep your temp down I'd recommend no more than about 190 F. Less is better.
jer

[Squirtin Thunder]

Duane @ HTP has the perfect fix for this. Check it out it is the only thing I have seen that is a complete kit so far. And Duane is cool and aware of the problems that a lot of people face on the water.
Jim