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ACCEPTENCE
09-08-2004, 12:16 PM
As many of you know and some don't we were on scene at the recent boating incident in the Topock area. We assisted law enforcement however we could as well as securing & recovering the damaged vessel from 34' of water and towing it into Topock Marina.
The other thread on the boards pretty much lays out what happened. Even having been there, there is not alot I can add to the story aside from many details that don't really change anything. The investigation is ongoing at this time.
As of late Monday eveing when we left the scene there were still two victims missing. I wish we could have done more in a time efficient manner. I witnessed distraught family and friends at the ramp and I wished they could have been given definitive answers about the missing friends and loved ones.
In an effort to be better prepared for these types of incidents and searches we have purchased a new high technology piece of equipment. It is a Side Scan Sonar system. Very similar to what the Navy uses, it uses sound pulses and not sight to locate targets underwater. It will cover a large area of search in a short amount of time. It will produce almost picture quality images of underwater targets on the computer screen up on the search vessel. Dirty, deep, clouded, no-visibality water is not a factor. It will show objects as small as a handgun and as large as the Titanic.
It will prove to be priceless when doing victim search and recovery.
This brings me to ask for everybody's help from the Forum Board community.
We need two mannequins, a full size adult and a child size. Regular human size mannequins you see in the window of the department store, arms, legs, feet, hands, head, the works.
We need them in order to be able to do testing and refine our operational skills of the system prior to needing to use them in a real life situation. We will secure a line and float to the mannequins and sink them in differnet environments and conditions. We will know where the target is and be able to with multiple passes overhead drag the sonar unit by the mannequins and fine tune the settings for each environment and conditions. Being pre-trained in the operation of this system will allow us to work quicker and more efficently.
So....having said all that and with over 5800 HB board members I am hoping someone has what were looking for in an attic, garage, basement, or maybe someone works in the fashion industry or retail clothing or who knows where these things come from but I hoping someone will step forward and hook us upbecause I've had no luck to this point.
Oh-yeah, For those of you wondering?
Victim search & recovery is usually done free of charge.
Please P.M., email or call if you can help us out.
Thank You, Greg Ewing
Mertopolitan Marine Solutions

Her454
09-08-2004, 12:29 PM
Greg,
I dont have any mannequins to lend you for your research but I did want to say THANK YOU for your efforts and diligence when it comes to helping us boaters out in times of need. I can't even imagine how stressful it must get sometimes and the heartache you encounter when dealing with these accidents.
I have heard nothing but positive about the work you do and again I thank you..and pray to God I never need you either.
Sincerely,
Traci

flat broke
09-08-2004, 12:43 PM
Greg,
I don't have any maniquin's laying around, but I had a question regarding what you are talking about doing. I think its great that you guys are 1. upping your equipment arsenal to be proactive and 2. are learning to use the stuff before its needed. But I have a question about the Sonar and the material density of the object being sought out. Does the composition of the object play any part in its reflection or lack thereof in a sonar application? If so, maniquins may not be the best calibration tool as the density and composition is much different than a real human.
Couldn't you just as easily have someone go down on a SNUBA rig so the BC/tank/etc aren't messing with your readings and use the real deal? Just a thought. Maybe one of the ex Navy guys in here (froggy etc) can comment further on the Sonar specific aspect of this.
Chris

spectratoad
09-08-2004, 12:54 PM
I could send you my ex. :hammerhea Thanks for the efforts to make a search or recovery effort more expedient and hopeful.

Froggystyle
09-08-2004, 12:58 PM
Greg,
I don't have any maniquin's laying around, but I had a question regarding what you are talking about doing. I think its great that you guys are 1. upping your equipment arsenal to be proactive and 2. are learning to use the stuff before its needed. But I have a question about the Sonar and the material density of the object being sought out. Does the composition of the object play any part in its reflection or lack thereof in a sonar application? If so, maniquins may not be the best calibration tool as the density and composition is much different than a real human.
Couldn't you just as easily have someone go down on a SNUBA rig so the BC/tank/etc aren't messing with your readings and use the real deal? Just a thought. Maybe one of the ex Navy guys in here (froggy etc) can comment further on the Sonar specific aspect of this.
Chris
Good point Chris. I know that it would certainly have a differrent response than a human, that is for sure, but so would a guy with scuba bottles on.
I have a pair of twin 80's, which while overgrown for normal diving would probably give me the ability to remain submerged without swimming around much for over 2 hours. If you want a live subject for this, and 2 hours per session would be enough for you to get your testing done, I would be happy to give it hell for the purposes of testing lifesaving equipment.
Get a Rix compressor, and you would be even further along. We could re-jam the bottles and I can go for hours with a short break. You may want to rent some helmets with comms though. That way we can talk, and you can pump tunes down to me to keep me from losing my mind from boredom.
Most of the times I have been under for 2+ hours I have had a limpet mine on my back and a couple of guns with me... ;)
:D

Bre
09-08-2004, 12:59 PM
Sorry... don't have any maniquins either... but just wanted to say thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

Froggystyle
09-08-2004, 12:59 PM
Oh, and you could arrange for a longer lead on the second stage regulator and we could put the bottles on the bottom and not wear them. I could play underwater hockey with myself or something.

Her454
09-08-2004, 01:06 PM
I could send you my ex. :hammerhea
ROTFLMAO.........................Classic. I'll offer mine up too if ya need two.

Rev. Williams
09-08-2004, 01:28 PM
Your best bet is contacting a pig farmer. If you can find a pair of pigs (real pigs! not women from the 909!) that have just died from natural causes and tie them off to a bouy line, then you would get your best sonar test. Pigs are used in 100's of "Human Simulation" tests because of their close body composition.
Just a thought for ya. :D :D

wsuwrhr
09-08-2004, 01:54 PM
Greg, same here. I wish I could help you on the manequins. I could build some billet ones :mix: :mix:
I do appreciate what you are doing for the boating crowd. I hope that if I ever need your services it will only be for my vessel. Maybe a wallet or two.
I can offer my services free of charge if you need brackets or anything else to finish rigging up your new equipment.
Brian

Mandelon
09-08-2004, 02:04 PM
How embarassing. I hate to admit it to this crowd, but I have a mannequin. :notam:
She is almost six feet tall. She is bald, but has nice features. I think her arm is loose but duct tape does work wonders. She doesn't really bend, and has a metal stake sticking out of her leg for balance. I will post a pic of her when I go home tonight.
We use her for trade shows. No, really. :p We dress her up in a white Tyvek suit with booties, and put a full face HEPA mask and gloves on her. It gets people to come to our mold remediation booth.
You are welcome to use her. I can bring her out on the 25th when I come for the OP6 event. I'd like to get her back, but she was free so I won't cry if you lose her..... :cool:

ACCEPTENCE
09-08-2004, 02:06 PM
Greg, same here. I wish I could help you on the manequins. I could build some billet ones :mix: :mix:
I do appreciate what you are doing for the boating crowd. I hope that if I ever need your services it will only be for my vessel. Maybe a wallet or two.
I can offer my services free of charge if you need brackets or anything else to finish rigging up your new equipment.
Brian
Thanks Brian, Everything is pretty much in place, but I will be sending you a check for the Lic plate frame for the salvage vessel trailer soon. Just been really busy lately.
We'll talk soon.

ACCEPTENCE
09-08-2004, 02:15 PM
Greg,
I don't have any maniquin's laying around, but I had a question regarding what you are talking about doing. I think its great that you guys are 1. upping your equipment arsenal to be proactive and 2. are learning to use the stuff before its needed. But I have a question about the Sonar and the material density of the object being sought out. Does the composition of the object play any part in its reflection or lack thereof in a sonar application? If so, maniquins may not be the best calibration tool as the density and composition is much different than a real human.
Couldn't you just as easily have someone go down on a SNUBA rig so the BC/tank/etc aren't messing with your readings and use the real deal? Just a thought. Maybe one of the ex Navy guys in here (froggy etc) can comment further on the Sonar specific aspect of this.
Chris
That is a good thought and we do have plans to use human subjects in the work however reflection qualities of the manniquins will reflect as a hard target and the won't wine about the working conditions.
We will using people too but it's is going to be a long boreing process over an extended time period. The river water and lake water is kinda cold in the winter time too. As well we will be dealing with strong river currents.
Mostly we need to find the range, swath, depth, gain and several settings for different conditions and applications.
It will all work out, it's just a time thing.
Thanks, Greg

ACCEPTENCE
09-08-2004, 02:25 PM
How embarassing. I hate to admit it to this crowd, but I have a mannequin. :notam:
She is almost six feet tall. She is bald, but has nice features. I think her arm is loose but duct tape does work wonders. She doesn't really bend, and has a metal stake sticking out of her leg for balance. I will post a pic of her when I go home tonight.
We use her for trade shows. No, really. :p We dress her up in a white Tyvek suit with booties, and put a full face HEPA mask and gloves on her. It gets people to come to our mold remediation booth.
You are welcome to use her. I can bring her out on the 25th when I come for the OP6 event. I'd like to get her back, but she was free so I won't cry if you lose her..... :cool:
Mandelon,
This may just work out. But I may not be down on the weekend of the 25th.
We will talk, and thank you for stepping up.

Mandelon
09-08-2004, 02:28 PM
I am already catching grief for it.....damn you Plya!!! :lightsabe :D
I can leave it with someone out there maybe? You could get it at your convenience. Check your pm's for my number.
It (she) is here in San Diego. I will check to see if she floats or sinks.....right now I don't know. I'd say you guys should put a bathing suit on her though, just for modesty's sake.......can you imagine the looks you'll get throwing a body overboard.... :D

charlyox
09-08-2004, 02:30 PM
sorry I don't have any maniquins either but I will definately be on the look out.you guys are doing a GREAT job.thank you

ACCEPTENCE
09-08-2004, 04:25 PM
Your best bet is contacting a pig farmer. If you can find a pair of pigs (real pigs! not women from the 909!) that have just died from natural causes and tie them off to a bouy line, then you would get your best sonar test. Pigs are used in 100's of "Human Simulation" tests because of their close body composition.
Just a thought for ya. :D :D
While this is a good thought, not to many pig farmers around here and I'm thinkin nobody is going to consent to my throwing a dead pig into Lake Havasu or up in the river. LoL...
I didn't want to get too graphic here but I need to be able to remove a leg or an arm (head) and do some testing with just that.
Searches do not always include a complete body, occasionally there is a need to recovery just a limb.
This is where the mannequin comes into play.

Jordy
09-08-2004, 04:28 PM
Maybe Mandelon will loan you his Kimber doll as well. :D :D :D

Havasu Hangin'
09-08-2004, 04:32 PM
Maybe Mandelon will loan you his Kimber doll as well. :D :D :D
Those blow-up dolls may have a tough time sinking...

Jordy
09-08-2004, 04:34 PM
Those blow-up dolls may have a tough time sinking...
Those aren't the ones I was speaking off, but you do bring up a good point. Aside from the recent deal on another board with grown ups napping with dolls, I do have to note my concern here. A mannequin, blow up dolls and animals (if I'm thinking of the right ones from OP6) and a Kimber doll... quite a collection there Mandy. :D

Ziggy
09-08-2004, 04:34 PM
How embarassing. I hate to admit it to this crowd, but I have a mannequin. :notam:
:cool:
Way to step up to the plate Richard, you da man. No grief from me on this subject, just praise. :boxed:
(thank God its not the blow up you had at OP6 this summer :D )

Havasu Hangin'
09-08-2004, 04:36 PM
...quite a collection there Mandy.
Do you think the mouth being wide open will throw off the sonar? :idea:

Boatcop
09-08-2004, 04:40 PM
We've also received a towable side scan sonar array, an underwater metal detector, and a towed or pole mounted underwater video system.
However, we've yet to have a chance to really train on the equipment, due to summer operations.
Greg, if you could call our dive-master (number sent via PM) when you get a chance, we would like to train along with you. Since we are in relatively close areas of operation, there is a high likelyhood that we could be involved in overlapping jurisdictions, or that either of us could be called to assist the other.
Call Ken when you get a chance, and maybe we can set something up.

77charger
09-08-2004, 04:40 PM
greg if you need a diver let me know.winter time is fine for me also.after mid oct i should be free on weekends

ACCEPTENCE
09-08-2004, 07:30 PM
We've also received a towable side scan sonar array, an underwater metal detector, and a towed or pole mounted underwater video system.
However, we've yet to have a chance to really train on the equipment, due to summer operations.
Greg, if you could call our dive-master (number sent via PM) when you get a chance, we would like to train along with you. Since we are in relatively close areas of operation, there is a high likelyhood that we could be involved in overlapping jurisdictions, or that either of us could be called to assist the other.
Call Ken when you get a chance, and maybe we can set something up.
Thank you Allen,
Will do, I will call Ken. Our testing may begin as soon as we locate two manniquins or as soon as the summer crowds thin out.
Hopefully we can make this happen, I do believe it would beneficial.
Thanks, Greg

ACCEPTENCE
09-08-2004, 09:11 PM
greg if you need a diver let me know.winter time is fine for me also.after mid oct i should be free on weekends
Thanks Robert, It's good to know we have the support. Thank you.
Greg

beyondhelpin
09-08-2004, 09:25 PM
Acceptance
No mannequin but want to say Thanks. Tough job you guys have.
Froggy 77Charger
You guys must be good people! Way to step and offer you help for what would be tough volunteer work.

Mandelon
09-08-2004, 10:24 PM
Here she is fully clothed, but without the mask.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/24Bass_Lake.jpg
And stripped, but i think you should put a Wicked Weasel bikini on her... :p She's a little "hippy" now that I take a good look, but with some hair...hey who knows.....I'm thinkin she's 36-26-38 or around there....... :notam:
Note the duct tape. I will try to fiberglass her arms and torso to make her one solid piece before our handoff so you don't lose a limb or two. :D
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/24Bass_Lake_001-med.jpg

wsuwrhr
09-08-2004, 10:53 PM
Acceptance
No mannequin but want to say Thanks. Tough job you guys have.
Froggy 77Charger
You guys must be good people! Way to step and offer you help for what would be tough volunteer work.
Hey now, I offered my services. :hammer2:
haha
Brian

Mandelon
09-08-2004, 10:58 PM
We can tie Brian to a concrete block and sink him....... :D :rolleyes: :p

79miller
09-09-2004, 05:51 AM
Can't help you with the Mannequin, but did want to say thanks for the hard work! Keep us updated on how the Manny test project works out....

BoatPI
09-09-2004, 06:02 AM
I will be in downtown LA on Friday. The store fixture sellers at located there. I will check for both sizes and get back.

wsuwrhr
09-09-2004, 06:50 AM
We can tie Brian to a concrete block and sink him....... :D :rolleyes: :p
Hey thanks Pal.
While we are at it, why don't we just sink my boat too!!! :hammerhea :hammerhea :eek: :)
On second thought, give me some tanks and "I'm there dude."
Brian

ACCEPTENCE
09-09-2004, 08:19 AM
I will be in downtown LA on Friday. The store fixture sellers at located there. I will check for both sizes and get back.
Very excellent!!! Boat PI. Thank you. Keep us posted.
Mandelon's gal pal is going to get part of the job done too. :)
You guys are great :smile:

Lightning
09-09-2004, 09:36 AM
My mother is in the clothing industry and probably has an extra manequin or 2 laying around. I am driving up to the bay area over Thanksgiving and will be happy to bring one back down. Send me a pm and let me know if want me to pick one up.

ACCEPTENCE
09-09-2004, 04:22 PM
My mother is in the clothing industry and probably has an extra manequin or 2 laying around. I am driving up to the bay area over Thanksgiving and will be happy to bring one back down. Send me a pm and let me know if want me to pick one up.
Hey ther Lightning,
That would great.
Absolutely grab them or maybe we could have em shipped down. Either way if you can hook em up that would be awesome.
I'll send you a p.m. promptly...and thanks.

Mandelon
09-09-2004, 06:00 PM
Ari I want some too....my girl could use a friend. :D

throwerb
09-09-2004, 07:51 PM
I'd also like to say thanks for the work you are doing.
[QUOTE=Mandelon]How embarassing. I hate to admit it to this crowd, but I have a mannequin. :notam:
She is almost six feet tall. She is bald, but has nice features. I think her arm is loose but duct tape does work wonders. She doesn't really bend, and has a metal stake sticking out of her leg for balance. I will post a pic of her when I go home tonight.
We use her for trade shows. No, really. :p We dress her up in a white Tyvek suit with booties, and put a full face HEPA mask and gloves on her. It gets people to come to our mold remediation booth.
You are welcome to use her. I can bring her out on the 25th when I come for the OP6 event. I'd like to get her back, but she was free so I won't cry if you lose her..... :cool:[/
A hate to admit it but I was getting strangly turned on when you were describing your Mannequin, and am sure I would come up to your booth to check her out. :wink: What exactly is mold remediation.

j-rod
09-11-2004, 08:20 PM
I was gonna take some pictures the day after the accident of salvage boats, the sheriff boats and of the helo.but that was after the fact..a very sad situatioin. I didn't even knew what happened until a jet skier told me the story. :(

1Shockwaveguy
09-14-2004, 02:57 PM
There is a company called Acme Display in Los Angeles and Duarte CA that manufacture maniquins if someone wants to look into buying one. They have adult sizes and child

jdogginla
09-14-2004, 03:02 PM
Didn't really have time to read all the posts..............but if you still need a maniquin or two, drop me a pm. I'm in entertainment biz, and have contacts at prop houses and what not, and can see if i can get you a couple of dummies. :wink:

ACCEPTENCE
09-14-2004, 05:11 PM
There is a company called Acme Display in Los Angeles and Duarte CA that manufacture maniquins if someone wants to look into buying one. They have adult sizes and child
Thanks for the lead. I'll look into it.
Greg