Pentagon lie???

[GlastronGuy]

Discuss (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pentagon.html#Main )
(BTW, I hate this stupis, ass, "your message is too short bullshit")

[bigq]

well that is interesting. :sqeyes: :idea:
and where would the missle come from? That was no shoulder launched missle to do that damage if it was true.

[Kachina26]

(BTW, I hate this stupis, ass, "your message is too short bullshit")?
?

[Kachina26]

? ?

[GlastronGuy]

?
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At first my link/post only said "discuss". I had to lengthen it in order to add the thread.
:(

[Kachina26]

At first my link/post only said "discuss". I had to lengthen it in order to add the thread.
:(
I know, I was just showing you that with a little creative spacing you can have short posts. Just funnin ya!

[Kachina26]

But actually to discuss, I have never heard that theory before. I would like to read more complete info on it. The film was good, but there are parts where I would like to pause it to better digest what is written. I will research this a little more.

[MagicMtnDan]

Awesome! I love conspiracy theorists they're just so dang wacky!
So to recap, the American Airlines 757 never did hit the Pentagon. It was a small commuter plane or maybe a missile? So that means that the American Airlines 757 is still flying around somewhere right? So maybe the passengers are still alive! Does it also mean that there were no terrorists on that plane?
Now it's all making sense. It's a government coverup because there was a rogue pilot in the military who was in on the al Qaida 9/11 plot and he was a sleeper agent waiting for his chance to crash his plane (or fire a missile from his plane) into the Pentagon. Yeah, that's it! :rollside: :rolleyes: :hammerhea :messedup:

[beer hunter]

Awesome! I love conspiracy theorists they're just so dang wacky!
So to recap, the American Airlines 757 never did hit the Pentagon. It was a small commuter plane or maybe a missile? So that means that the American Airlines 757 is still flying around somewhere right? So maybe the passengers are still alive! Does it also mean that there were no terrorists on that plane?
Now it's all making sense. It's a government coverup because there was a rogue pilot in the military who was in on the al Qaida 9/11 plot and he was a sleeper agent waiting for his chance to crash his plane (or fire a missile from his plane) into the Pentagon. Yeah, that's it! :rollside: :rolleyes: :hammerhea :messedup:
Don't be silly Dan, most peeps in the know understand that it was actually a spaceship that was confiscated by the Republicans outside Roswell New Mexico back in 1947 and flown by one of the thousands of Gorge Bush clones created to reap havoc on the Democrats and bolster the real JWB's prospects of being reelected in 2004…….yeah that’s it :notam: :D :D

[steelcomp]

Hey, that was pretty interesting. I know there are people who still think we never walked or even landed on the moon, either, but this sin't quite as cut and dry. I remember the very first initial reports of the Pentagon incident said it was a small private aircraft that hit the building, which made sense given the relative lack of damage.
1 What about the "missing 757?" The film's strongest point IMO is the missing evidence of the plane. They don't just disappear. No wings, no engines, no fuselage, no reports of a cockpit recorder being recovered, no phone conversations from that flight, nothing.
2 What "real" evidence of a missing 757 do we have? We've heard endless reports of families of the 911 WTC victims, but I don't recall ever hearing specifically of the families of Pentagon victims related to a lost flight. We were told, by the media, that there was a flight. Does anyone know anyone who was on that flight? Has anyone seen records that that flight ever existed? We were only told it did.
3 Damage assesment isn't consistant with a large plane crashing into a building, nor is eye whitness accounting, at least in this mini-documentary.Look at the imprint of the collision on either of the Twin Towers. It's a perfect sillouette of the aircraft, right to the tips of the wings. Look at the HUGE fire ball that ensued, and continued to burn, to the point of melting the structure of the towers, which led to their collapse.
Was there a cover-up? Who knows. The Twin Towers were hit by big aircraft as an intentional attack. We have that on film. Irrefutable, undenyable. Another was brought down before it could finish it's mission. We have phone recordings, cockpit recordings, passenger manifests, etc. to verify what we have been told, as well as we can. I choose to believe (and we all have that choice)that even if there is something "fishy" about what went on at the Pentagon, that it's an unusual circumstance and that there's a good reason. Enough went on that day that we can rest assured that we were attacked, and if there was something that took place in the Pentagon attack that warranted the need for secracy, I trust that it was or is in the best interest of our experts to do their job. We have NO idea what they may have found there. There may be a good reason that NO ONE NEEDS TO KNOW what they found there. I don't really care. But if this is just more of someone's attempt to further support the idiotic and paranoid Bush hatred leftist conspiracy theories, I just laugh, and wonder what it must be like to live in that kind of mind set and mentality.
Yeah, and the Apollo Space Program was just a movie set.

[steelcomp]

Now it's all making sense. It's a government coverup because there was a rogue pilot in the military who was in on the al Qaida 9/11 plot and he was a sleeper agent waiting for his chance to crash his plane (or fire a missile from his plane) into the Pentagon. Yeah, that's it!
Beer hunter...do you really think that's so far fetched? That's not an anti Bush theory, but it's DEFINATELY NOT something the gov't would want to publicise under the circumstances. When these stories were breaking, NO one knew where any of this was going to lead.
Maybe not a rogue pilot, but how about a stolen military aircraft? Bad enough that our public security was threatened, but no one needed to hear that our military defense was in the same boat (Thanks largly to Clinton).

[Sleek-Jet]

Dude, I really hope your joking. :rolleyes:
The tower controllers at Regan/Washington National watched the airplane fly into the Pentagon.

[steelcomp]

Dude, I really hope your joking. :rolleyes:
The tower controllers at Regan/Washington National watched the airplane fly into the Pentagon.
They watched AN airplane fly into the pentagon. Or so they said.

[Rexone]

Hurricane Francis is just imagery produced by the media to scare 3 million Floridians into vacating the state so the government can secretly run a 2 day test on the effects of brain wave induced surface wind and creation of moisture from palm fraunds.
And Martians are really behind the events of Sept 11, using Al Queda simply as diversions to snap up a 757 in order to get human specimens for study without suspecion.
:rolleyes:

[Dr. Eagle]

Conspiracy theorists are really nuts. That part of the Pentagon had been "hardened" recently. The entire pentagon is undergoing this process. The unbroken windows are not a surprise, the walls are lined with Kevlar and the windows were made to withstand a explosions. I seem to remember a security camera that had the plane in frame for about 3 or 4 frames and it looked like a 757 to me.
One problem with these things is who would have fired a missle, and what would be their goal in doing so. Are they saying it is the US government attacking itself? That's nuts.
All of those quotes that it "sounded like a missle"... how the hell would those people know what a missile really sounded like?
Sorry, I think somebody has entirely too much time on their hands... :hammerhea

[MagicMtnDan]

Here's a similar Web site with a story on how the American Airlines 757 was "just another airliner landing (at Reagan airport after the four plane crashes"):
http://www.cosmicpenguin.com/911/Eastman/m18h05.html

[MagicMtnDan]

And this link provides a whole bunch of information refuting the "evidence" that it wasn't a 757 that crashed into the Pentagon:
http://ourworld-top.cs.com/mikegriffith1/refute.htm

[Sleek-Jet]

Here's a similar Web site with a story on how the American Airlines 757 was "just another airliner landing (at Reagan airport after the four plane crashes"):
http://www.cosmicpenguin.com/911/Eastman/m18h05.html
Whomever wrote and put this little piece of "information" on the web should take a basic photogrophy class and learn a little something about forced perspective. :rolleyes:

[steelcomp]

Conspiracy theorists are really nuts. That part of the Pentagon had been "hardened" recently. The entire pentagon is undergoing this process. The unbroken windows are not a surprise, the walls are lined with Kevlar and the windows were made to withstand a explosions. I seem to remember a security camera that had the plane in frame for about 3 or 4 frames and it looked like a 757 to me.
One problem with these things is who would have fired a missle, and what would be their goal in doing so. Are they saying it is the US government attacking itself? That's nuts.
All of those quotes that it "sounded like a missle"... how the hell would those people know what a missile really sounded like?
Sorry, I think somebody has entirely too much time on their hands... :hammerhea
First, who said anything about a conspiracy? I didn't say anythng about anyone "conspiring" anything here. I suggested the possibility of a security measure to protect vital info. that might have been discovered. Were talking about the Pentagon, here. Not a motel. We're talking about an enemy attack, terrorist or otherwise, on the most vital military installation in the world, by something that had enough mass and inertia to penetrate to the fifth ring...Kevlar and bomb proof withstanding. That's not consistant with the structure of a large airliner.
Read my post...I didn't say I aggreed wityh the theory of it NOT being a 757, just brought up some FUNDAMENTAL points indicating that it's possible, even reasonable that it wasn't, without accusing anyone of any wrong doing.
I'm going to address point to point what you posted, and then you do the same.
Unbroken windows. Dosen't surprise me either, no matter what hit that building. Irrelevant. Walls lined with Kevlar and windows (again)...so what? It even stands to defend the theory of a smaller, denser type of vehicle, be it missle or smaller aircraft. A large jet liner would have splattered all over, and not penettrated that armored citadel.
Whatever was in those video frames, if you will look closely at the scale, wasn't any where near the size of a 757. Why did no one report the plane flying at ground level over the expresway? I'm pretty sure that would be pretty damn obvious, and irrefutable. Where are all the other video accountings of the event? Why were they confiscated? (If they actually existed, as claimed)
Who would have fired a missle? That sounds like a pretty inane question in the light of three aircraft being hijacked, two of which were used as "missles" to take out our two largest buildings in this country...flat level to the ground, and a fourth landing a successful attack on the Pentagon by whatever.
The missle theory, in my mind, is the absolute least possible theory, mainly due to logistics, but given the radical approach to their goal (the terrorists) why would you so easily discount it? Who would have ever expected them to fly jet liners into the Twin Towers? They flat cought us with our pants down, and they knew it. And I haven't heard any one say anything about it being a US Gov't. missle, or that the US atacked itself...at least not on this thread. (I know the conspiracy whackos think Bush flew the jets into the Twin Towers, and all that...yes, they're wacko!!)
How would those people know what a missle sounds like? Hell, all you have to do is go to the movies or watch TV now days. None the less, it's pretty easy to tell the difference between a "missle" and an airliner. My guess is they haven't got a clue, but what they did hear was something "different", and it wasn't a 757.
I am a very strong Bush supporter, and conservative as you know by some of my other posts. I've done my part to defend this country and am as patriotic as any one. I'm not suggesting any wrong doing on the part of the government or Bush administration here. On the contrary, I'm supporting whatever decision thay might have made to protect vital information, if that's what happened. I'm not even saying that it did...but there are some pretty glaring discrepencies here, and rather than give a conspiracy theory any validity, I thought I'd offer a better possibility.

[steelcomp]

Hurricane Francis is just imagery produced by the media to scare 3 million Floridians into vacating the state so the government can secretly run a 2 day test on the effects of brain wave induced surface wind and creation of moisture from palm fraunds.
And Martians are really behind the events of Sept 11, using Al Queda simply as diversions to snap up a 757 in order to get human specimens for study without suspecion.
:rolleyes:
Hey Rex...don't you have a catalog to make?
So what's your explaination of all the inconsistancies, like WHERE THE F is the 757? Not a wing, not an engine, not a scrap. No tires, no landing gear, no hole in the ground. No huge fire, no fusalage, no tail section sticking out of the building, nothing.
NOTHING!!
Well?

[Jeanyus]

OK you guys are all mixed up. Here's what really happened. I have done a lot of building retrofit for the US military. They are famous for screwing things up. So they remodel the pentagon, after the job is done they realize they have made a major structual mistake. So to cover it up they waited till the 911 attacks and fired a missle into the newly remodeled section. Now they get to redo the job and fix the mistakes.
As far as the missing 757. The republicans are in good with the aliens, and called them up for a favor. So the aliens hooked onto the 757 with a tracter beam and towed it to outer space. They then beamed the passengers onto the alien ship. Now the passengers live on mars with superman and other space guys.
Don't laugh it took a whole 18 pack to figure this thing out.
I know what your thinking, you are saying to yourself, "now I know why they call him Jeanyus".

[steelcomp]

I visited both the links above in defense of, and refuting claims of a conspiracy, and something other than a 757 hitting the Pentagon. Man, there's a lot of information there! Hundreds of other links for and against, pro and con.
My conclusion..we will never know who killed Kennedy. What's more, it really dosen't matter. What is interesting, however, is the evidence. I have my doubts that a 757 did hit the Pentagon.
I give the benefit of the doubt to the good guys, and that's us. The main reason for me, is that the conspirators are still being fueled by one common emotion, and that's a hatred for this country, this president, and this administration. They're still crying that we stole the election in 2000, and they will never let that go. It's pure emotional hatred which is their motovation for developing their conspiracy theories, and that just dosen't hold water with me.

[steelcomp]

Jeanyus (I like that spelling, BTW)
Now you've gone and done it. The aliens are going to come back, and zap your ass for telling. I wanted to tell the whole story, but man, I know better. Those guys have ray guns and stuff. And they can suck your brain through your nose and reprogram you to be a Contractor on Earth or something.
You better look out. :eek:

[Dr. Eagle]

First, who said anything about a conspiracy? I didn't say anythng about anyone "conspiring" anything here. I suggested the possibility of a security measure to protect vital info. that might have been discovered. Were talking about the Pentagon, here. Not a motel. We're talking about an enemy attack, terrorist or otherwise, on the most vital military installation in the world, by something that had enough mass and inertia to penetrate to the fifth ring...Kevlar and bomb proof withstanding. That's not consistant with the structure of a large airliner.
Read my post...I didn't say I aggreed wityh the theory of it NOT being a 757, just brought up some FUNDAMENTAL points indicating that it's possible, even reasonable that it wasn't, without accusing anyone of any wrong doing.
I'm going to address point to point what you posted, and then you do the same.
Unbroken windows. Dosen't surprise me either, no matter what hit that building. Irrelevant. Walls lined with Kevlar and windows (again)...so what? It even stands to defend the theory of a smaller, denser type of vehicle, be it missle or smaller aircraft. A large jet liner would have splattered all over, and not penettrated that armored citadel.
Whatever was in those video frames, if you will look closely at the scale, wasn't any where near the size of a 757. Why did no one report the plane flying at ground level over the expresway? I'm pretty sure that would be pretty damn obvious, and irrefutable. Where are all the other video accountings of the event? Why were they confiscated? (If they actually existed, as claimed)
Who would have fired a missle? That sounds like a pretty inane question in the light of three aircraft being hijacked, two of which were used as "missles" to take out our two largest buildings in this country...flat level to the ground, and a fourth landing a successful attack on the Pentagon by whatever.
The missle theory, in my mind, is the absolute least possible theory, mainly due to logistics, but given the radical approach to their goal (the terrorists) why would you so easily discount it? Who would have ever expected them to fly jet liners into the Twin Towers? They flat cought us with our pants down, and they knew it. And I haven't heard any one say anything about it being a US Gov't. missle, or that the US atacked itself...at least not on this thread. (I know the conspiracy whackos think Bush flew the jets into the Twin Towers, and all that...yes, they're wacko!!)
How would those people know what a missle sounds like? Hell, all you have to do is go to the movies or watch TV now days. None the less, it's pretty easy to tell the difference between a "missle" and an airliner. My guess is they haven't got a clue, but what they did hear was something "different", and it wasn't a 757.
I am a very strong Bush supporter, and conservative as you know by some of my other posts. I've done my part to defend this country and am as patriotic as any one. I'm not suggesting any wrong doing on the part of the government or Bush administration here. On the contrary, I'm supporting whatever decision thay might have made to protect vital information, if that's what happened. I'm not even saying that it did...but there are some pretty glaring discrepencies here, and rather than give a conspiracy theory any validity, I thought I'd offer a better possibility.
Dude, you need to take a breath. First Isaid they were consipracy theorists... because they are.
Second, I saw photos from a security camera on the Pentagon grounds that showed a Boeing 757 tearing into the building.
Third, the sound of a missile would NOT likely be known by these people, I think that it was an expression.
Fourth, I wasn't being critical of you. But what was in that video was bunk, period.
I dismiss it because it does not make sense, none at all.

[HighRoller]

There are a lot of loose ends from that day. The FAA will not confirm or deny the rumor that one of the engines from the plane that crashed in PA was found 8 miles away. They say it wasn't shot down but....Also, the military pilots who were flying exercises that morning were all notified of the planes being off course. Several of them(in unarmed planes)offered to sacrifice their lives and ram the jets before they got close to Manhattan. They were denied permission to "intercept" in any manner.

[MagicMtnDan]

Did you realize that one of the groups behind the "it wasn't a 757 that slammed into the Pentagon theories" is French?
Here, check this out: http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/06/26/france.book
By the way, here's a quote from that article, "But photographs Meyssan left out, including some by CNN's Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre, picture debris that clearly came from the hijacked plane."

[MagicMtnDan]

Look for those in denial willing to listen to the conspiracy theorists, there's not much they'll read or see that will convince them they're way off base here. But for those willing to read - check out all the links on that Web page that refutes the BS theory that it wasn't a Boeing 757 that crashed into the Pentagon.
Here's some for you:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blflight77.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp%2Dsrv/nation/graphics/attack/pentagon%5F7.html
Here's what an engineer and physicist came up with:
http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/cmh/simulation
Here's a pic showing :supp: airplane wreckage at the Pentagon
http://www.news.navy.mil/management/photodb/photos/010911-N-6157F-001.jpg
And here's a graphic from the above Washington Post article (lots more graphics there):
http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/graphics/attack/images/pentagon_092301.gif

[Rexone]

Dan that is all bullshit. The martians have the plane. :boxed:
and I'm sure the traffic controllers weren't watching it very closely either being 3 others were off course or had already crashed into shit. lol. They prolly took a coffee break about then since not much was happening that morning. :hammer2:

[steelcomp]

Dude, you need to take a breath.
"Dude", (what are you, 17?)...you need to open your mind. I've done military crash investigation and been at three civilian crash sites and there's enough there on the 50 or so web sites that I visited yesterday for me to have my doubts. Websites both pro and con. What's your experience? I'd lke to see those photos you referred to.
Actually, I'm not going to waste more of my time on this. I was just put off by all the sarcastic and arrogant comments earlier totally dismissing the possibility of another explaination as to what happened. Every one of these links use the same few photos, use the same rhetoric, use the same mentality. I read the eye whitness accounts, and as is typical with any situation like this, theyre full of inconsistancies. Now, don't assume that I'm saying they're lying...that's not what I said. I believe every one of them in that they believe what they saw. No doubt.
Bottom line is, if it was SO cut and dry, there would be way more evidence. There were cameras pointing right at the crash. Why don't we have those pics to dispell ALL doubt? There's footage of what seems to be a tail fin of a plane just before impact (unfortunately obscured) that's definately NOT a 757. And the main stumbling block I have is the lack of remaining 757pieces. For instance..where are the main wing spars? Those are two huge pieces of solid aluminum extrusions. Where are the engines? There isn't even signs of where the engines would have impacted the building. They would have left a HUGE area of damage. Where is the landing gear? More huge aluminum forgings that would have stayed primarily intact. With all the reinforcement that was in that building, I seriously doubt that the nose of the 757 would penetrate as far as the damage that was shown, and still be able to punch a clean hole through the inner wall of the third ring. The nose would have basically disintegrated on impact. There's not a lot of structural integrity in the nose of a jet liner. The computer crash simulations that are linked to above are a joke. And where's the tail? Look at every crash site photo you can find. If there's ANYTHING left, it's always the tail.
To me and through my experience, there's more than a reasonable doubt.

[Kachina26]

If there's ANYTHING left, it's always the tail.
Kinda like when you eat shrimp.
I'm soooo sorry, I just couldn't resist.

[steelcomp]

Kinda like when you eat shrimp.
I'm soooo sorry, I just couldn't resist.
Kachina...you're crackin me up! :rolleyes:

[Dr. Eagle]

Kachina...you're crackin me up! :rolleyes:
And you're cracking me up "dude"...... :hammerhea

[Dr. Eagle]

there's more than a reasonable doubt.
If you and the french say so.
One little piece of food for thought, if the fire was hot enough to cause structural concrete to collapse, you think maybe some evidence might just be destroyed?
I say it is BS... and I don't seem to be alone.

[steelcomp]

And you're cracking me up "dude"...... :hammerhea
Dr Eagle, I'm glad you're keeping a sense of humor, here. I'm more playing devil's advocate than anything. I know I get "out there" a little, but I just refuse to be part of the "status quo", which is most of what I'm hearing here, along with a bunch of worthless sarcasm. I refuse especially when things don't add up.
It's hard to interpret inflection and tone of voice through this media, but you seemed to be more the "open minded" type than you're coming across here. There's nothing personal about any of this, and no need to get personal. You really never addressed the issues I raised, and that's fine. You see things through your looking glass, and my eyes are open.
God Bless America, and George Bush!

[Sleek-Jet]

It's hard to interpret inflection and tone of voice through this media, but you seemed to be more the "open minded" type than you're coming across here. There's nothing personal about any of this, and no need to get personal. You really never addressed the issues I raised, and that's fine. You see things through your looking glass, and my eyes are open.
I'm saving this as a perfect example of a "back handed" compliment. :chi:

[steelcomp]

If you and the french say so.
One little piece of food for thought, if the fire was hot enough to cause structural concrete to collapse, you think maybe some evidence might just be destroyed?
I say it is BS... and I don't seem to be alone.
Gosh, gee. I guess I never thought of that. You really straightened me out there, Dr Eagle. Structural concrete. Hmmm.
Me and the French? :burningm: F**k you!! You obviously haven't read a word I've said, except the ones that you could pull out to support your own ignorant position. You sound like a f***in liberal, now. Why the insult, asshole? I haven't aligned myself with anyone here, especially the psyco conspiracy mongers. I made it VERY clear in the beginning that I was looking strictly at the facts and evidence available here through the same links you have the chance to look at, which you obviously haven't. I didn't come to any conclusions, point any fingers, make any statements other than what I've seen.
Typical!

[steelcomp]

I'm saving this as a perfect example of a "back handed" compliment. :chi:
(backhanded) COMPLIMENT WITHDRAWN! :crossx:

[Kachina26]

Ouch, chill.
I did look at some of the links, and although the initial "film" was intriguing (sp), how do you explain the black boxes that were recovered? How about the passengers, the remains of all but 2 were identified? The phone calls that were made from the plane. I understand that the "film" said there were none, however, I don't think that Ted Olson husband of former prosecuter Barbara K. Olson was making up the phone call that he received from his wife. If she called from somewhere other than that ill fated plane, then where is she? With Elvis? Have you really researched this? You were much more convincing before the profaninties came about.

[steelcomp]

Sorry...I hate the French.
Yes, I've heard all those. I never said that it didn't happen!!! I said there were a LOT of unanswered FUNDAMENTAL questions. Basics. I know nothing of black boxes. Never seen 'em. Never heard recordings from them. Easy enough to "create", if such a thing occurred. THERE! I said it again! IF it occurred.
My experience has been in site and photo investigation and analysis. Been there, done that. Claims of black boxes mean nothing to me, as far as proof. The phone calls are hard to refute. The eye whitness testimony is hard to refute, but then again...how many people heard how many shots from which direction when Kennedy was assassinated? Passanger remains...not much DNA can survive a fire that would completely destroy an aluminum aircraft. That all could easily be created.
Again, one more time. Where's the plane?

[Kachina26]

\
Again, one more time. Where's the plane?
I won't insult your intelligence by posting the roster of people on board that flight, but I will answer your question with a question. Where are the people? Witness protection program? Killed by the govt?

[Sleek-Jet]

Connect me with the French? Those are fightin words!
COMPLIMENT WITHDRAWN! :crossx:
You have a truly dizzying intelect. (Appoligies to the movie "The Princess Bride") How you inferred that I was comparing you to the French from what I posted is truly beyond me.
OK, so now back to refuting your evidence. There are several pictures of aircraft parts at the site of the Pentagon Fire. Most notably engine disks.
http://911review.org/images/photorotor.jpg
This was taken from one of the web-sites.
OK, so the brilliant author says there is no way that a disk of this size could come from the RR engines on the 757 that crashed (sorry supposedly crashed) at the Pentegon. How does he come to this conclusion? There is a leg from one of the workers in the pic, that he uses to intrapolate the size of the disk. But we don't have any other point of reference. That disk could be several feet behind the worker, or it could be right next to him, we don't know.
Moving on, the author says that the disk is to small to be off the power plant based on this photo taken from a 757 crash in Europe several years ago.
http://911review.org/images/4.jpg
Yes, it is to small to be from the low pressure (front) part of the engine. But it's obviouse that our brilliant theorist has little understanding the design and operation of today's high bypass turbo-fan engines. The big fans in front of the engine are turned by the "high pressure section", which is smaller and made out of some very high temperature alloys. The "power" for the engine is produced here and transfered to the bypass fans via a shaft hooked to the exhaust side of the power section.
Here's a cutaway view of the RB-211 that was on the 757.
http://www.aircraftenginedesign.com/pictures/RB211-524.gif
The high pressure section is the smaller set of rotors and stator in the mid section of the engine. Here's a link to a brief explanation of how high bypass turbo fans work (http://www.aircraftenginedesign.com/abe_right3.html)
So it looks like to me that parts of a 757 were found at the wreck site.
hmmm interesting.

[steelcomp]

what people are you asking about? The ones on the roster? The ones who's DNA survived 1300+ deg. temps for long enough to melt an entire plane to nothing? (And collapse structural concrete)
I don't have an answer for you. By the time I was taken to the crash sites I saw most of the remains had been removed, but I do know what effect a crash has on bodies. I know what it smells like, and the taste it leaves in your mouth. I was told to ignore that part and concentrate on the aircraft. That's my stumbling block here. What part of that don't you get?
Sorry, I really don't feel like doing this any more.

[steelcomp]

sleek jet, I was referring to Dr Eagles comment. If you made no reference to me and the French, why would you assume I was directing that at you?
I had a lot of training on the GET500 engines that powered my Blackhawks, and many others as well. I saw all these photos, and don't come to the same conclusion as you. I see where the boot of the person in the pic is contacting the ground and the fan disc, and see (with relative confidence)that it's maybe 10" to a foot behind him, but that proves nothing. What about the fact that they only found one engine?
Gotta go. Pick this up later...or not.
WTF does any of this matter anyway?

[Sleek-Jet]

sleek jet, I was referring to Dr Eagles comment. If you made no reference to me and the French, why would you assume I was directing that at you?
I had a lot of training on the GET500 engines that powered my Blackhawks, and many others as well. I saw all these photos, and don't come to the same conclusion as you. I see where the boot of the person in the pic is contacting the ground and the fan disc, and see (with relative confidence)that it's maybe 10" to a foot behind him, but that proves nothing. What about the fact that they only found one engine?
Well first off, you quoted my post, stupid me I assumed your comments were directed my way.
Second, if that disk is approximately a foot behind the person in the pic, what diameter would you say it is?? I'll let you anwser that before I continue anymore on the aircraft's engine. As far as only one engine being found, what proof is there that only one was found??
OK, onward and upward. The following appears on the AOPA's (Aircraft Owners and Pilots Assn) website and was published in their magazine several months after 9/11. (For the record I am a member of AOPA.) The entire article can be seen here (http://www.aopa.org/pilot/features/2001/feat0111.html) .
The flight that hit the Pentagon — American Flight 77 from Dulles to San Francisco — was hijacked near the southern Ohio border, according to flight tracks provided by Flight Explorer. As it reversed course, it first turned south toward Kentucky and then east on its way to Washington, D.C.
Indianapolis Center lost contact with American Flight 77 at 8:50 a.m. when the aircraft's transponder was turned off. Per their training, controllers began a search in the direction the flight was to have taken but could not find it. Indianapolis controllers learned from Washington Center controllers that a primary target, one without an active transponder, was headed toward Washington. At 9:24 a.m. the FAA notified NORAD that American Flight 77 had been hijacked, and at 9:26 a.m. the command center stopped all departures nationwide, no matter the destination. Traffic in the air was allowed to continue.
American Flight 77 returned to the D.C. area and began a frightening tour of Washington. Dulles controllers had alerted Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport Tower that it was coming, and they were watching as it came in from the west toward the Pentagon at an altitude estimated to be less than 2,000 feet. The aircraft then made a 360-degree turn, passing over Reagan National Tower, and continued south, making another right-hand turn over Alexandria, Virginia. Additional right turns were made as needed to line up on a final approach to the Pentagon. It crashed into the west side of the Pentagon at 9:37 a.m.
The conspiracy web-sites point out that radar contact was lost for Flight 77 when the transponder was turned off. They don't, however, address the primary target (a primary target is a term used to describe the reflection of radar waves caused by the skin of the aircraft reflecting the energy back to the antenna. The transponder is a radio that is interrogated by a ground based unit and responds with a signal. In other words the primary target is passive and doesn't rely on any equipment on the aircraft to function) that was tracked back to Washington. Also, only one primary target was seen.
I would also consider the controllers in the tower cab at Reagan National to be expert eye witnesses. They probably know the difference between a 757 and a cruise missle or an F-16, as well as being able to tell if it was painted in American Airlines livery.
One more thing. The FAA didn't order all aircraft to land at the nearest airport until 09:45, 5 minutes after Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon. So the whole theory of the aircraft landing at Reagan National because of the airspace shut down doesn't hold water either. A ground stop had been ordered at 09:05, effectively grounding all aircraft in the Northeast region, but those aircraft in the air were not ordered to land untill 09:45.

[Rexone]

So if it was an F16 or a missle why would this piece of debris which is pretty obviously from the intruding aircraft painted with American Airlines colors be laying on the lawn?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/732americanairlines.jpg

[wsuwrhr]

Whatever happened that day, I am glad I didn't bear witness to any of it. It was bad enough seeing the firetrucks from the trade center up close.
Part of living in a free country means we accept these types of risks.
I truely believe the freedoms we were given as Americans are slowly eroding.
Brian

[GlastronGuy]

So if it was an F16 or a missle why would this piece of debris which is pretty obviously from the intruding aircraft painted with American Airlines colors be laying on the lawn?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/732americanairlines.jpg
Lord knows, every picture is a true representation of the facts:
http://www.deezle.com/fark/killshot-kerry2.jpg

[Kachina26]

Maybe that guy in the background is only pretending to be taking pictures, when in actuallity he is pulling pieces of aircraft like this out of his "camera bag" and laying them all around to complete the illusion. ;)
Where's the tail? Remember the shrimp theory.

[Dr. Eagle]

Dr Eagle, I'm glad you're keeping a sense of humor, here. I'm more playing devil's advocate than anything. I know I get "out there" a little, but I just refuse to be part of the "status quo", which is most of what I'm hearing here, along with a bunch of worthless sarcasm. I refuse especially when things don't add up.
It's hard to interpret inflection and tone of voice through this media, but you seemed to be more the "open minded" type than you're coming across here. There's nothing personal about any of this, and no need to get personal. You really never addressed the issues I raised, and that's fine. You see things through your looking glass, and my eyes are open.
God Bless America, and George Bush!
I try to always keep my sense of humor! Now about that worthless sarcasm... I think sarcasm always has a place, but then I am a terminal smartass.
As far as your eyes being open, if that's how you want to look at it, fine. I see your view as more looking at things obliquely when it is not necessary. This isn't about alien cattle mutilations, there were mountains of evidence that it was in fact a 757, but when some little thing like unbroken windows shows up.. it must be a consipracy.
All I can say in this kind of a situation is, I think my vision is much clearer than yours through my "looking glass'...

[Dr. Eagle]

So if it was an F16 or a missle why would this piece of debris which is pretty obviously from the intruding aircraft painted with American Airlines colors be laying on the lawn?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/732americanairlines.jpg
Clearly a photochop... LOL... :hammerhea
Who fired that other shot from the Grassy Knoll...?

[steelcomp]

Maybe that guy in the background is only pretending to be taking pictures, when in actuallity he is pulling pieces of aircraft like this out of his "camera bag" and laying them all around to complete the illusion. ;)
Where's the tail? Remember the shrimp theory.
I don't see a camera bag. :hammerhea And the tail, along with the wings just purely disintegrated on impact...but this one "identifiable" piece of aluminun just managed to escape without a burn mark on it, looking shiney and pretty, ending up way out in the middle of the lawn, by itself. :cool:

[HM]

http://thesurfboard.net/schlock/mmshk20b.jpg

[Kachina26]

Be patient, the evidence of this fake plane crash will surface. Much like this newly release blooper footage from the "moon landing"
Proof positive (http://www.StupidVideos.com/?VideoID=583)

[Rexone]

You can believe any fallacy you like if you try hard enough. There is no purpose here for the U.S. government to cover up / stage / whatever anything. But I do know that people who like to believe the government is an "all evil" entity only out to hide, steal, disrupt, etc etc, will believe and suspect just about whatever necessary to support their view on the government in general. I have a guy who works for me with that mindset. Everything that wrong with the U.S. is the fault of the government or a direct result of a government conspiricy to cover something up. To each his own.
All you have to do is look around the world at the standard of living and development, level of civilization, etc to pretty much determine the quality of government you're dealing with in any particular country. If our government was the bunch of thieving lying bastards some would like to imagine, we would have no freedoms. The U.S. is one of the freeest countries in the world if not the freeest. It would not be that way if the government was "out to get us" at every turn. I'm not saying there's not a few thieving lying bastards within government, but that is that case with any group in society in general and not reserved only for the government.

[Dr. Eagle]

http://thesurfboard.net/schlock/mmshk20b.jpg
Now THAT makes this whole thread worthwhile... LMAO...

[steelcomp]

That's the BIGGEST insult to Schreck!!! Got Kerry dead to rights, though!
LMAO too!
Back atcha, HolyMoly. Got your little present. Fortunately what someone like you thinks of me dosen't mean a thing. :D

[steelcomp]

All right guys...I really don't understand where all the animosity is coming from. I haven't accused anyone of anything, nor have I made any of this personal (untill one of you did) and I'm certainly not trying to defend the conspiracy theory...as I've stated ad nausium! I love this ****ry as much as any of you. I did my part to defend this country. I'm an AVID Bush supporter, and his administration. I didn't create the circumstances we're "debating", and I didn't say I believed one way or another exactly what happened. You all accuse me of everything that can theoretically be turned right back around at you in your positions, since it's all coming from speculation. You all can be just as guilty of believing in a fallacy as me, since none of you was there, and only know what you've read or been told. Not ONE of you KNOWS anything for fact. Nor do I. There's two sides to every story, and I didn't make up the side I've seen to be questionable. No one did. It's not opinion. It's a matter of evidence, and I haven't heard one of you come up with any explaination in answer to my question(s). On the other hand, I haven't challanged any one of you on the evidence you've parroted, and that's what most of this is. There's a lot of evidense both in support of and against a 757 hitting the Pentagon. THAT, is a fact. I thought we were all on the same side, but I guess the side of truth and objectivity dosent exist among you. You have your sarcasm and your insults and that's fine. I imagine that you all think that because a jury finds a man guilty, that there's no chance they were wrong, either. It's lynch mob mentality, and it's really dangerous, especially when you're attacking someone on your side! This has never been about taking sides...well, maybe it is. I still say if (and I know here's where I loose most of you) the government found it necessary in the name of national security to keep what might have really happened under wraps, then so be it. Can you read that correctly? I didn't say the government did anything or caused anything or conspired anytihg, I said if they FOUND something, and are doing what they think is necesary to protect us and our families, that's their job. What would any of you have against that? What would any of you have against that concept, or anyone willing to accept that or even support that? Why are you comparing me with the conspirators and the French and all those enemies of what I stand for and believe in.
I just don't understand. :frown:
I really dont think this has been productive in any way. I responded to this with an open mind, not making ANY accusations, thinking some of you more technical and intellectual types might find the challange interesting. I'm sorry it was a subject that brought such an emotional lack of wilingness to see "other" possibilities that weren't intended to implicate us or our government in any wrong doing. I didn't take into account the fact that you who are such strong supporters of our democracy and this country wouldn't be able to seperate your emotions from simple facts for fear that it would give the conspiracy psycos some foot hold. I apologise for what misunderstandings have come out of this, and what contributions I have made in causing this thread to get so negative.
This really bums me out, not that I get the sense that any of you care.
Peace!

[Kachina26]

I care, I just can't get over the passenger who called her husband. She wasn't on the plane that his the ground in VA, she wasn't in either of the 2 that hit the towers and she didn't land safely. Where is she? You asked for parts on the ground, you have seen 2 photos of what appears to be the parts of the plane. Again, I ask for any plausible theory as to where she went. Or ANY of the others on the roster. Where are they? I see where you are coming from and if you read my initial comments on the thread you will see I had an open mind on the subject. With a little research I found what I believe to be sufficient evidence that at the very least, these people are gone. But where? That's a lot of people to get to keep a secret like this. Forget the plane and lack of evidence thereof, where are the people?

[OGShocker]

All right guys...I really don't understand where all the animosity is coming from. I haven't accused anyone of anything, nor have I made any of this personal (untill one of you did) and I'm certainly not trying to defend the conspiracy theory...as I've stated ad nausium!
Did I ever welcome you to the JUNGLE? :2purples:
Flight 77 did not vanish. Those people on board did not vanish. They hit the Pentagon. End of story. I like the link, but end of story. Now go say a prayer for this great land and ALL the victims of the fateful day.

[steelcomp]

I care, I just can't get over the passenger who called her husband. She wasn't on the plane that his the ground in VA, she wasn't in either of the 2 that hit the towers and she didn't land safely. Where is she? You asked for parts on the ground, you have seen 2 photos of what appears to be the parts of the plane. Again, I ask for any plausible theory as to where she went. Or ANY of the others on the roster. Where are they? I see where you are coming from and if you read my initial comments on the thread you will see I had an open mind on the subject. With a little research I found what I believe to be sufficient evidence that at the very least, these people are gone. But where? That's a lot of people to get to keep a secret like this. Forget the plane and lack of evidence thereof, where are the people?
I don't have an explaination for that. That's the confusing part. It dosen't make sense, because the data I've seen is just as compelling that it almost couldn't have possibly been a 757 that hit that building, and I've been looking at this almost endlessly for the last 48 hrs. It bothers the shit out of me. But I'm willing to drop it and say that prayer for those who were lost. Heck, I said that prayer that day. And cried outloud and hard.

[Rexone]

Steelcomp I didn't mean to come across as attacking you and I realize you're pretty middle of the road on your view on this whole subject not believing either side of the argument until proven. Sorry if I was a little overzealous or overly sarcastic with the martian routine. It was not meant as a personal attack on you, just on the theory that I don't agree is likely. But as you say no one (among us anyway) knows for sure either way. We also don't know for sure that man landed on the moon or that Elvis is dead. Not trying to be funny, just making a point.
Seriously though I don't think the "other than" 757 theories make much sense regardless of lack of evidence either direction. Perhaps... if they did find something as you say they are protecting us from it... but I cannot imagine what that something would be that we shouldn't know about. And the theory of the 757 just vanishing makes little sense to me with the controllers watching it closely, pieces of American Airlines colored parts laying around, etc..
As far as where did the pieces of the plane go... well wings are mainly aluminum, and my guess is mixed with jet fuel in an enclosed environment (the building) they pretty much vaporized as the melting point of aluminum is pretty low compared to many other materials. After all the world trade center fire's intensity melted the steel that held the building up. The tail could have become disconnected and just layed down before it went through the hole then melted with all the rest the aluminum. There are pic of one engine part and I thinks its foolish to think there wasn't other parts or a second engine simply because there's no media pics of them / it. I just think its a far fetched idea, my personal opinion based on what I see and what motivation the government would have to make it appear otherwise.
And given the fact we do "know" that other planes were hijacked and flown into targets that morning that further discounts that this incident was something other than just that same scenario. If the pentagon plane had been the only one I'd be much more apt to consider an alternative theory as being a viable one.
:)

[Rexone]

And thanks to for the unsigned ignorant remark in my feedback from whoever left it. If you're gonna leave negative shit at least have the balls to sign it... pussys.
:messedup:

[steelcomp]

And thanks to for the unsigned ignorant remark in my feedback from whoever left it. If you're gonna leave negative shit at least have the balls to sign it... pussys.
:messedup:
Thanks for your last post rex...the long one. (sincerely) As far as the feedback...I got a few of those myself from this thread. :(

[GlastronGuy]

... After all the world trade center fire's intensity melted the steel that held the building up.
:)
Mike, Mike, Mike, You have so much to learn.
;)
http://911review.org/Wiki/TwinTowers.shtml

[Rexone]

I'd love to read through all that GG but I just saw Elvis with Jim Morrison heading down the street and I gotta go get their autographs before I lose sight.... :boxed:

[steelcomp]

Glastron guy, enough is enoough.
First, the fire was started by the kerosene, but there were a LOT of flamable substances throughout that building that would burn a lot hotter. Carpet, furniture, wall covering, etc.
The fire didn't need to "melt" the steel, only heat it up enough to change it's property. Under the thousands of tons of weight, it wouldn't have to deteriorate much to fail. Kerosene alone burns at around 850 deg f.
Once the building could no longer support what was above the damage, it collapsed. Gravity works vertically, and thats the direction it came. When the top of the tower decided to start moving, there was nothing that was going to stop it. It's called Mass and as it's velocity increased, so did it's energy. That's called inertia. We're talking about a force that isn't comprehendable.
Most of the dust that was seen was drywall. Every wall and partition in that building, in every room was covered by drywall, and every floor was poured with LIGHT WEIGHT concrete, which really isn't much more solid than drywall.
The ceilings were all acoustic, which is the same material as bulliten board. As that building collapsed, there was enough energy released upon compression that it very closely resembled, or was in fact an explosion, which could only go outward. And when you're that far above the ground, releasing that kind of energy, shit's going to fly a long way.

[Dr. Eagle]

Every wall and partition in that building, in every room was covered by drywall, and every floor was poured with LIGHT WEIGHT concrete, which really isn't much more solid than drywall.
The ceilings were all acoustic, which is the same material as bulliten board. As that building collapsed, there was enough energy released upon compression that it very closely resembled, or was in fact an explosion, which could only go outward. And when you're that far above the ground, releasing that kind of energy, shit's going to fly a long way.
Each floor connection literally exploded (you could see them "popping" one after another like a zipper opening) I would postulate that the dust came from a number of sources:
Concrete floors that were pulverized
Drywall as you mentioned
ceilings
spray fireproofing
porcelan, tiles, plumbing fixtures, etc.
I think the top 4 account for most of the dust.
Additionally, one of my former bosses worked for the developer of the tower and told me about some of the construction methods and challenges they had to complete this project. One of the challenges was pumping concrete all the way up to the top.
The lightweight concrete you refer to is actually structural concrete. It is often referred to as "110 lb" concrete as standard hardrock weighs 140 lb per cubic foot. Usually this lightweight concrete uses either a manmade or naturally light weight aggregate that contains a great deal of air but is still quite strong.

[Rexone]

I should have not said the steel "melted". It was weakened and had it's strength and load carrying capacity comprimised from the intense heat of the fire. Then failed to hold the buildings up.
On that latest link if they had explosives planted why would they bother with the risky airplane attack at all, just blow er up and be done with it. Some of these wacko conspiricy theorists just amaze me at the lengths they will go to to justify their wacko anti-everything mindset.
btw in reference to my recent post above, I did chase Elvis and Jim although they got away and I was unable to obtain autographs. I did get some awesome digital pics though of the spaceship they boarded over on the border with Pomona. But unfortunately my camera battery died and corrupted the files before I could download them. :frown:

[MagicMtnDan]

Mike, Mike, Mike, You have so much to learn.
;)
http://911review.org/Wiki/TwinTowers.shtml
Don't let GG get to you - he's just stirring the pot trying to see if anyone believes the crap on those Web pages (note his use of ;) )

[HM]

The biggest problem with the "alternative theories" is that they require a cover-up that is too large and complicated. Just like O.J. Simpson, perhaps that type of reasoning, along with the focking idiots in the jury, got him aquitted. But, did not get him off in Civil Court.
Perhaps if we load the jury with the same idiots from O.J.'s trial, you guys with "alternative theories" might find a group of people just stupid enough to believe your conspiracy fantasies.
Perhaps you conspiracy guys need to hire Johnny Cockranupyourass - all it takes is $$$. (actually - $$$$$$$$).
Isn't the Pentagon is plain view and the plane crashed during the day?..seems like you conspiracy guys could come up with some hard hard evidence? Nope, just like O.J., you find the glove that doesn't fit, and you cream your pants. :(

[jas0502]

I'd love to read through all that GG but I just saw Elvis with Jim Morrison heading down the street and I gotta go get their autographs before I lose sight.... :boxed:
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
I say consider the source of these BS theories.................................

[imirsh1]

Check this out!
http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon121.swf

[racecar.hotshoe]

wow!

[Dr. Eagle]

That post is old news and IMHO a bunch of BS...... :rollside:

[Sleek-Jet]

Fock, here we go again.
Go take a look down in the Politcal forum, I think we are up to 3 pages now.
:chi:

[Keithb87]

wow!
Ditto.. :eek:

[Schiada76]

Tinfoil hats!
I got yer tinfoil hats right here!
Tinfoil hats for sale! :messedup:

[Blown 472]

Tinfoil hats!
I got yer tinfoil hats right here!
Tinfoil hats for sale! :messedup:
Wtf? moving in my turf??

[Dave C]

it was the aliens.... ;)

[OGShocker]

Check this out!
http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon121.swf
I am only going to say this ONE MORE TIME. Flight 77 HIT the Pentagon. Everyone on that flight died. WE LANDED THEN WALKED ON THE MOON. Check That Out!!!!!

[Gerard]

That post is old news and IMHO a bunch of BS...... :rollside:
maybe it is BS, but I didn't see any plane wrekage in the footage.

[MsDrmr]

holy crap, has anyone ever seen the devistation and the pieces of aircraft come outta there? I remeber seeing a speical on Discover planet with twin towers and all the loss and plane pieces there but come to think of it,, they never have run a speical on the pentagon? :idea: :confused: god knows with our Gov could be anything and/or anyone

[Dr. Eagle]

Fock, here we go again.
Go take a look down in the Politcal forum, I think we are up to 3 pages now.
:chi:
Same-o, Same-o (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=57096)

[Dr. Eagle]

http://911review.org/images/4.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/732americanairlines.jpg
A couple of photos from the site of the crash... notice the aircraft wreckage. Also in order for there to be some other explanation, it would mean that a coverup of collosal proportions would have had to occur from before the alleged attack. I just don't understand where these people come up with these bright ideas...

[OGShocker]

when life shovels you bullshi t....don't believe it :p
hehehehehehehe.

[OGShocker]

http://911review.org/images/4.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/732americanairlines.jpg
The CIA put that stuff there! After they developed CRACK for the inner city.

[Sleek-Jet]

Actually the one of the engine is from a crash in Europe. I used it to show the size of the fan disk. There's another one down there of the parts from the Pentegon... that don't exist of course. :rolleyes:
Engine wreckege from the Pentegon
http://911review.org/images/photorotor.jpg

[Dr. Eagle]

Actually the one of the engine is from a crash in Europe. I used it to show the size of the fan disk. There's another one down there of the parts from the Pentegon... that don't exist of course. :rolleyes:
Engine wreckege from the Pentegon
http://911review.org/images/photorotor.jpg
Oops grabbed the wrong one. Since the fan disk is far too small to have come from a 757, (especially since the fan blades are missing)... I guess this must be from a lear jet or something... :jawdrop:

[Sleek-Jet]

Yeah, mm,hmmm.... read my post and I give my explanation on how this is proof that the 757 crashed into the Pentegon (besides the big smoking hole in the ground/building). :D It's back on page 2.

[RiverToysJas]

I'm with Dr. Eagles assessments all the way through.
Here's an interesting link....French Claim About Pentagon Jet is a Sick Joke (http://www.geocities.com/roboplanes/757.html)
RTJas

[Rexone]

Ok I must be halucinating over the Elvis thing I guess but wasn't this thread in the PR forum with a title of Missle hits the Pentagon or some such thing?
:confused: :confused:

[MagicMtnDan]

How do you conspiracy nuts explain that MANY PEOPLE SAW THE PLANE CRASH INTO THE PENTAGON? http://dmontzmax.maximaclubca.com/SigsAndAvatars/Smilies/man4.gif http://dmontzmax.maximaclubca.com/SigsAndAvatars/Smilies/man4.gifhttp://dmontzmax.maximaclubca.com/SigsAndAvatars/Smilies/man4.gifhttp://dmontzmax.maximaclubca.com/SigsAndAvatars/Smilies/man4.gif

[Seadog]

We have met the enemy and he exists in the psychosis of our imagination.

[Jordy]

Ok I must be halucinating over the Elvis thing I guess but wasn't this thread in the PR forum with a title of Missle hits the Pentagon or some such thing?
:confused: :confused:
I think the aliens cloned it and placed it in the Sandbar to add to the confusion. :D :D :D