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napabob
09-10-2004, 03:28 PM
You will have to choose between a liar, a coward and a consumer advocate.
Who would you vote for if you had a different choice?
I choose Senator John McCain.

Dave C
09-10-2004, 03:43 PM
why did you call Bush a coward? ;)

Havasu Cig
09-10-2004, 04:01 PM
Nader is a socialist.
You call Bush a coward? Have you served?

napabob
09-10-2004, 04:10 PM
why did you call Bush a coward? ;)
The description fits either candidate.
I should have listed the choices as liar/coward and coward/liar.
The listings would have been less confusing.
USMC, Volunteer
Vietnam
Honorable Discharge
'69-'70
(No, I did not kill women and children)

Blown 472
09-10-2004, 04:11 PM
The description fits either candidate.
I should have listed the choices as liar/coward and coward/liar.
The listings would have been less confusing.
USMC, Volunteer
Vietnam
Honorable Discharge
'69-'70
(No, I did not kill women and children)
But did you show up??

Havasu Cig
09-10-2004, 04:14 PM
The description fits either candidate.
I should have listed the choices as liar/coward and coward/liar.
The listings would have been less confusing.
USMC, Volunteer
Vietnam
Honorable Discharge
'69-'70
(No, I did not kill women and children)
Thanks for the service. I still would not call Bush a coward though. When I deployed to the gulf I had many friends that did not. Just luck of the draw which units went.
At least Bush served. Clinton was the draft dodger.

napabob
09-10-2004, 04:16 PM
But did you show up??
Yes.
My choice is still Mr. MacCain, who would you choose?
If you are not a war veteran, please select someone that you are comfortable with.

napabob
09-10-2004, 04:34 PM
At least Bush served. Clinton was the draft dodger.
I am not talking about former President Clinton.
I know that there are a lot of males that decided to avoid the draft by leaving the country, hiding in higher education institutions, becoming conscientious objectors, and joining services that kept them stateside during the Vietnam conflict. Nobody wants to die if they can help it. Everyone has to live with their decisions.

Havasu Cig
09-10-2004, 04:37 PM
I realize you were not talking about Clinton but it is funny that the same people that defended Clinton are now attacking Bush for being in the Guard.

napabob
09-10-2004, 04:44 PM
Thanks for the service.
You are the fifth person to thank me for my service to my country in 32 years.
My second thanks (most memorable) was given to me by Korean veteran who said that the Vietnam veterans in government are their salvation in regards to their benefits.

v-drive
09-10-2004, 04:57 PM
Hey NB, I am also a vietnam era vet and I don't think of our President as a liar or a coward. You should stop and think before you make a statement like that.
I am certain that he wishes things would have gone different also but at the same time he hasn't backed off on his convictions. I am not even going to talk about Kerry because I think that we are in agreement and yes Mccain is a fine candidate. I think you need to re-group.
Ben Brosch
Sargeant Us army
1968/69

OutCole'd
09-10-2004, 05:21 PM
If I had a choice I would also vote for McCain. I am not a fan of anyone running now. I wish there was a none of the above option.

MagicMtnDan
09-10-2004, 05:35 PM
Thanks for your service Bob!
My first choice is Rudy Giuliani.
Tough as hell (former Federal prosecutor).
Effective.
Successful.
Tough under pressure.
More of a "moderate Republican" that would have a chance at attracting many Democrats.
For all these reasons he's the right guy for 2008. But they're also the reasons why the Republican party will most likely nominate someone else.
John McCain's a great man for serving this country and suffering as a POW in an honorable manner. But he's all over the map politically and I don't believe he'd make a good President (but hell, even Bill Clinton again would be way better than John Kerry!).

OGShocker
09-10-2004, 05:37 PM
Yes.
My choice is still Mr. MacCain, who would you choose?
If you are not a war veteran, please select someone that you are comfortable with.
This just in.... McCain is NOT running! :hammerhea :hammerhea

HighRoller
09-11-2004, 04:39 AM
I'm sorry, but how can anyone who condemns Clinton turn around and support an adulterer like Giuliani? He lost all credibility with me when he stuck his unit in his assistant then disrespected his wife. And McCain is great when he's not trying to impress his newfound buddies in the liberal media. Unfortunately, he all too often kicks his Republican mates in the junk to get a headline. And voting record? McCain votes the Dem party line more than his own. If he acted like a Republican I might vote for him, but he seems to be a (R) in name only...

dwci97
09-11-2004, 04:55 AM
napa-
thanks for the service. I mean that wholeheartedly.
Bush is not a liar or a coward.

steelcomp
09-11-2004, 05:35 AM
I think Any Navy pilot has cajones bigger than most. I don't think I'd want to try and land a fighter jet on a football field in the mddle of the ocean. I heard that the records will bear out that Bush actually put in for active duty.
NAPA...maybe you can tell us why you think he's a coward? Do you know him? Do you know anyone who served with him or that knows him personally? Aren't you just spewing the same 'ol dem party line BS that the media has pushed so hard? You guys really need to come up with some new accurate info. Why don't you guys stick to the curent issues like how much better off we are having him as Pres! How bout coming up with an original thought instead of being a parrot.
Hmmmm?
BTW...appreciate the service. Thank you, but I think your view is a little askew.

Dave C
09-11-2004, 10:54 AM
your alright, napabob.
sorry, I was poking a little fun. (using your own words to call Kerry a liar) ;)
The description fits either candidate.
I should have listed the choices as liar/coward and coward/liar.
The listings would have been less confusing.
USMC, Volunteer
Vietnam
Honorable Discharge
'69-'70
(No, I did not kill women and children)
BTW I agree with steelcomp.
I heard that there were a gluttony of pilots in the Vietnam era and that many guardsmen were being let go or reassigned rather than sent to combat. I am too young to know this first hand. Is that true? Anyone?

Schiada76
09-11-2004, 11:02 AM
Thank You Bob!!
Without men who have the courage and wisdom to serve we would be nowhere.
I'm seriously embarressed to admit that I did not, no dodging, no fear, just didn't. :frown:

mike37
09-11-2004, 05:21 PM
my vote is for BUSH and I feel great about it
you will all see it may take years but you will find out that the thing he has don for this country are the right thing for the times we are in now
Kerry is a coward and has dishonored ower country
and he will destroy it like slick Willy did

eliminatedsprinter
09-13-2004, 08:32 AM
You will have to choose between a liar, a coward and a consumer advocate.
Who would you vote for if you had a different choice?
I choose Senator John McCain.
I reject the above discriptions of our current candidates.
Depending on your perspective your liar and coward could describe any politicians and if you call Ralph Nadar a "consumar advocate" you are niave indeed. He is nothing more than a run of the mill self promoting ambulance chaser who used a phoney and rigged "study" to kill the Corvair and thus put himslf up in the national spotlight.
As for McCain, as a politician, he is nothing special (he was very special as a POW). He is just another hack who has done his research on the predominant views of the media and thus endeared himslf to reporters. His major cliam to fame "McCain Fiengold Campaign Finance Reform Act" Is a very poorly written piece of legislation. It shows just the kind of muddled thinking that we don't need from a leader.

eliminatedsprinter
09-13-2004, 12:13 PM
You are the fifth person to thank me for my service to my country in 32 years.
My second thanks (most memorable) was given to me by Korean veteran who said that the Vietnam veterans in government are their salvation in regards to their benefits.
I am around veterans all the time and because of that, I am often asked if or in what branch I served. I always truthfully respond that I am just a gratefull citizen.

napabob
09-20-2004, 04:13 PM
Gentlemen,
I am back from a relaxing weekend up a Lake Berryessa and a 2 week break from this forum.
When I listed the choices on my post, I did not associate anyone with them. Dave C assumed that I was calling a particular candidate a coward.
I tried again to ‘clarify’ my message by combining two choices (maybe some one would get the picture). I did not work. Blown 472 questioned my service instead. It was assumed again that I had called some one a coward.
Havasu Cig mentioned “luck of the draw” on who is ordered to duty. They do not spin a wheel and say you are it.
Havasu Cig also labels former President Clinton a draft dodger. He is also called a pardoned felon by John Hamilton of Dedham for time he (Clinton) spent in the reserves.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/795189/posts
Here is a list of other draft dodgers:
John Adams, No record of service
Thomas Jefferson, No record of service
John Q. Adams, No record of service
Martin Van Buren, No record of service
James K. Polk, No record of service
Millard Fillmore, No record of service
James Buchanan, No record of service
Grover Cleveland, No record of service
William H. Taft, No record of service
Woodrow Wilson, No record of service
Warren G. Harding, No record of service
Calvin Coolidge, No record of service
Herbert Hoover, No record of service
Franklin D. Roosevelt, No record of service
Ronald W. Reagan, Acted in US Army training films
William J. Clinton, No record of service
http://www.magweb.com/sample/wl020pre.htm
v-drive’s response is again saying that I actually called someone a coward.
It appears that the responders believe that the description actually fits one of the candidates.
At least he answered the question on Mr. McCain.
Outcole’d was to the point of the post.
MagicMtnDan has added Mr. Giuliani.
OGShocker is under the impression that Mr. McCain is running for president. He would be if the RNC didn’t distance them selves from him for using the term ‘gook’.
HighRoller has some great comments, but the RNC still needs quirky McCain.
dwci97 I have added you to the list of persons who has thanked me for fighting against communism.
steelcomp, George H. W. Bush was a WWII U. S. Navy pilot. George W. Bush was in the Texans Air National Guard. I hope that you are not referring to the landing on the U.S.S. Lincoln off the California coast. It was too far out to use a helicopter and the two navy pilots did a fine job landing the S-3B Viking with President Bush in the co-pilot seat.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/05/01/bush.carrier.landing/
The parrot comment seems to hold true. A lot of responders to my post have selected the coward.
Dave C, I started the thread and I should be able to take the backlash.
I can not comment on the “gluttony of pilots” wanting to head out to Vietnam, but 1,445 fixed wing air pilots and crewmen died there and 931 were wounded.
http://www.danshistory.com/airwar.shtml
BrandP, don’t feel embarrassed. If we continue to be attacked on U. S. soil, I hope that you will consider taking up arms and protecting your way of life. I know that I will not have a problem picking up a BFB (BMG) .50 and doing it again.
mike37, you are committed to your candidate. I just hope that it does not turn out like a Kennedy (nuclear confrontation) or Nixon (stay in office at all costs) saga.
eliminatedsprinter, yes, my point exactly. The two labels do fit 99% of the political pool. What else can Nader be called. He should stick to his forte. I did loose my 1962 Corvair Monza with a 105 HP 4 cylinder (opposed) with 4 one barrel carburetors (the ’65 Spider engine) to his pressures in 1969. My mom sold it while I was over seas, she said it was dangerous and it might kill me (how do you like the new couches?).
About Senator McCain, your description shows that only veterans care for veterans, and because of him, you can speak you mind.
When you are asked about any military service you might have performed and you respond as you have said, do the veterans treat you any differently?

Havasu Cig
09-20-2004, 04:50 PM
My statement on "luck of the draw" was in reference to which units get shipped to combat duty. When I was assigned to Fort Hood texas I arrived in a group of about 6 soldiers all of us having the same M.O.S. (Military Occupational Skill). We walked up to a desk one at a time and were assigned to a unit. I was assigned to the 1st Cavalry Division while two of my friends that I went through both boot camp and advanced individual training with were assigned to the 6th Cavalry division. This was "luck of the draw". They simply filled positions based on need and did not care who went where because we all had the same M.O.S.
When Iraq invaded Kuwait in August of 1990 we were originally told that the 6th Cav, would deploy to Saudi Arabia instead of us because they had more advanced helicopters. We had old OH-58C scout helo's and Cobra's as opposed to the 6th Cav's Apaches and newer versions of the OH-58 (Delta model). This changed in the following weeks and were were deployed to Saudi Arabia instead of the 6th Cav which stayed state side. If the 6th Cav would have deployed instead of us the Troopers we lost would still be alive, but most likely some 6th Cav trooper would have been killed instead. If I would have been assigned to the 6th Cav instead of the 1st Cav I would have stayed state side and my buddies would have deployed. I hope this makes it clear on what I meant when I said "luck of the draw".
As far as Clinton is concerned, it is well documented that he went to Europe to avoid the draft and also lead protest against the war. I hope this clears up my statement, even though I thought is was clear in the first place.

Dave C
09-20-2004, 05:36 PM
Napabob.
Thanks for your service.
sorry I was breaking your balls about the coward comment. i.e. twisting your words to call Kerry a liar!.... because if bush is a coward then kerry is a liar (ahhh forget it, not funny) :rolleyes:
I read a story that Bush' squadrons were mainly responsible SAC's air defense and that the plane he was trained on was obsolete and they had a too many pilots they did not need. But I don't know that for sure being that I'm too young for that.
politics being what it is ... its hard to tell the players without a program...... ;)

mike37
09-20-2004, 06:16 PM
When I listed the choices on my post, I did not associate anyone with them. Dave C assumed that I was calling a particular candidate a coward.
yes you did
by using the description used by each party to describe the other
you were implying Bush and Kerry
now you say you were not describing any specific person
I call BS on you

eliminatedsprinter
09-22-2004, 08:19 AM
NAPABOB
eliminatedsprinter, yes, my point exactly. The two labels do fit 99% of the political pool. What else can Nader be called. He should stick to his forte. I did loose my 1962 Corvair Monza with a 105 HP 4 cylinder (opposed) with 4 one barrel carburetors (the ’65 Spider engine) to his pressures in 1969. My mom sold it while I was over seas, she said it was dangerous and it might kill me (how do you like the new couches?).
About Senator McCain, your description shows that only veterans care for veterans, and because of him, you can speak you mind.
When you are asked about any military service you might have performed and you respond as you have said, do the veterans treat you any differently?[/QUOTE]
Napabob
What I call Ralph Nadar is America's highest profile ambulance chaser. He can also accuratly be called a chicken little. He runs around spreading mis or partial information to preach his doom and gloom and then trys to sell himself as our only savior. I find him to be very cheesy.
I discribed Senator McCain's military service as very special and I ment it.
How does my discription of John McCain's finger to the wind approach of pleasing and pandering to the press and the stupidity of the seriously flawed McCain/Feingold act in any way reflect upon my or anyone else's feelings on veterans issues. I have spent 21 years of my life serving veterans and you probably won't meet a more staunch supporter of our veterans than me. The reason that so many veterans say they assume that I must be a veteran is because they say they have never seen a non veteren work so hard for them.
Thier usual response is one of pleasant suprise, because they say meeting and working with me gives them hope that it not just veterans who feel as you and I do. I think if I were a Senator I would be more supportive of the veterans than he has been and I would have spent some of that time he wasted, re-arranging the deck chairs of the Titanic ship of campaign finance, working for improving the VA and bringing back some of the many services the Clinton/Gore administration took away when they "re-invented" the V.A.
I hope that clarifies my position a bit for you. :cool:

napabob
10-21-2004, 11:14 AM
Gentlemen,
I have been busy getting winterized.
Havasu Cig (09-20-2004)
“Luck of the draw”
Pure chance, as in It isn't anyone's fault it's just the luck of the draw. This expression alludes to the random drawing of a playing card. [Mid-1900s]
Your deployment was decided by troop movement orders not made by drawing the short stick.
I thank you for your military service in keeping me free.
Dave C (09-20-2004)
Thanks for the acknowledgement (every one should serve in the military for two years minimum).
I should be able to take criticism.
Maybe the draft will not be activated; instead, lets get a constitutional amendment passed that will require military service in order to insure we have the personnel to target the next country for pre-emptive military action. If the current trend continues, this should not be a problem.
President Clinton did go to England to avoid the draft as stated by Colonel Homes (U. S. A. retired) in a notarized statement as entered in the Congressional Record (Page: H5551) 7/30/93
mike37 (9-20-2004)
Who would you vote for if you had a different choice. Why are you focused on what you describe as party labeling?
Isn’t this forum set up to balderdash debris?
eliminatedsprinter (9-22-2004)
Ralph Nadar has always been an advocate championing consumer ethics. Maybe he thinks that we as ‘consumers’ of a president (we ‘buy’ them to serve us with our vote/campaign contribution) should have full rights to be protected from a defective product before the 4 year warranty expires or by an equal or better product.
I would expect that veterans who are helped by anyone would be appreciative. If you were running for a senate seat, I would recommend changing your campaign to seek the presidency.