water injection / trigger with RPM switch

[jwbbuck]

It seems like it might take a lot of fussing to get the header water to turn on / off at the right times. I'm going to run a full MSD ignition, so why not trigger some solenoids with an RPM switch? You could precisely pick the desired RPM and set the water flow rate with a single ball valve. Anybody try this before?

[Eric]

I seem to remember somebody on the board (was it superdave?) was using the throttle position to open and close a barrel valve to the headers. All mechanical though, had nothing to do with the ignition system or RPM.
Eric

[LVjetboy]

jwbbuck, I think that's a good idea...Jim Lee and Ken Marsh I believe, from the other board were talking about it at one time.
Bassett spring loaded t's can work ok, but pressure triggered header flow has a couple problems. Pressure variation (from the t-stat opening for example) can change the injection rpm) Then there's spring breakage, which may be caused by pump pressure fluxuation work hardening the ss spring? Apparently both Bassett and Rewarder t's have this issue.
An electrical or mechanical design may cost extra, but be more reliable and offer better injection rpm control?
jer

[superdave013]

Originally posted by Eric:
I seem to remember somebody on the board (was it superdave?) was using the throttle position to open and close a barrel valve to the headers. All mechanical though, had nothing to do with the ignition system or RPM.
Eric
Yep, it was me. Dry at idle, mist at part throttle and dry again at WOT. Had to play with it but got it to work pretty good.

[flat broke]

I'm your huckleberry regarding the RPM water injection.
If you want, I can give you part numbers of all the equipment you will have to buy to pull it off. I have tested the system using the tach lead on my Chevelle as the RPM source and the garden hose to simulate the feed going to the T-valve which is replaced by a solenoid operated valve supplied by McMaster. Sooner or later, the system will end up on my buddy's Eliminator Bubble Deck (our old boat). I'm just waiting for him to give me a call and tell me he has all of the SS line ready to go. But to answer your question, it can be done, has been tested for functionality, and now just needs to be installed.
You can email me at Admin@liquidaddiction.net if you would like more info.
Thanks,
Chris www.liquidaddiction.net (http://www.liquidaddiction.net)

[jwbbuck]

That'd be great. My biggest questions would be: what solenoid do you suggest?, do you still need a valve to restrict the flow so you can get the right amount of mist?
Why wouldn't you want any cooling water at WOT? Someone suggested that in another posting. That would require a more sophisticated RPM switch.

[Hustler]

No water at WOT means more HP http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
Hustler

[Party Cat]

Originally posted by jwbbuck:
That would require a more sophisticated RPM switch.
Use an MSD RPM Window switch. Set the RPM's to turn it on and set the RPM's to turn it off. Switches new, are around $80 and $20 for a 1000 rpm range of 'pills'
I use this on my 98 Z28 with NOS, turn on at 3000, turn off at 6000
C YA

[flat broke]

Party Cat is right, you would use a window switch to shut the water back off at whatever RPM you like. Since you wont be at WOT that long, the risk to the headers is minimized. The less obstructions you have in the exhaust at any given point, the better your performance potential. That Being said, the H2O mist is an obstruction and is removed at WOT by some folks.
I'll look over all of the receipts I have to get you the part numbers etc for the items you will need. On the pill for the RPM switch, you have to buy an adjustable pill that ranges from like 500-2500/3000 (cant remember exactly) but once again, Party Cat is right, its $19.99 through summit.
As far as misting the water in the pipes, that is handled by the injection tubes themselves. You would just use the std Basset T valve without the checkball or spring between the solenoid and the headers.
I'll email you all the part numbers this evening.
Chris www.liquidaddiction.net (http://www.liquidaddiction.net)

[superdave013]

I got rid o the water at WOT because it was easy to do by adjusting the barrel valve I was using. I didn't really care about the blue on the headers and if I was at WTO the man better not be around anyway. That was way before I used MSD stuff. That set-up that flat broke is talking about sounds pretty slick. You could get or order some solenoid valves at any plumbing supply house with 12VDC coils and a 100% duty cycle. ASCO makes them.
[This message has been edited by superdave013 (edited February 28, 2002).]

[Party Cat]

MSD RPM Window Switch part # 8956 at Summit it's $76.95
http://store.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/norm/MSD-8956_m.jpg

[flat broke]

Here is the info on the RPM controled water injection setup.
The parts you need are as follows:
MSD RPM activated switch kit. PN 8950 $53.99(summit)
MSD Adjustable Low RPM module. PN 8677 $19.25(summit)
Brass miniature Solenoid Valve PN 4590 K32 $31.22(McMaster-Carr)
I don't have a diagram for how to do the setup, but I think you can pretty much figure it out. As far as the electrical goes, you run a lead to the tach output of the MSD from the RPM switch, and supply the switch with 12vDC. Then you power the solenoid from the leads on the switch. You will have to play with the polarity depending on if you want the solenoid normally open or normally closed. The switch can be wired to accomodate either. Lastly you just adjust the adjustable RPM pill to the rpm you want the switch to open the solenoid. Voila, wet headers.
As far as the plumbing is concerned, you would leave your existing plumbing as is, with the exception that you would install the solenoid valve right in front of the Basset T, and then take the srping and check ball out of the T so it is always open. It should prove to be a pretty sweet setup and is something I would do if I still had an OT header boat.
Hope that helps anyone that was/is interested.
BTW I have a brand new RPM switch and solenoid valve(unopened packages) that I'm not going to be using, so if anyone wants, I'll let them go for what I paid for them.
Chris www.liquidaddiction.net (http://www.liquidaddiction.net)

[Party Cat]

I would have the rpm switch trigger a relay to activate the solonoid to be safe. Depending on the current draw of the solonoid, you could fry the rpm switch.
C YA
[This message has been edited by Party Cat (edited February 28, 2002).]

[PC Rat]

My Bassett T-Valve seems to work pretty well as is. Although I have been trying to find a normally open solenoid valve that I can power with a WOT switch to shut off the water to the headers. It seems like the normally closed valves are a dime a dozen, but I'm having trouble finding a normally open valve at a reasonable cost-McMaster has been my only hope so far. Any ideas??

[flat broke]

Originally posted by Party Cat:
I would have the rpm switch trigger a relay to activate the solonoid to be safe. Depending on the current draw of the solonoid, you could fry the rpm switch.
C YA
[This message has been edited by Party Cat (edited February 28, 2002).]
Party Cat,
I'll have a look at the draw ratings on the solenoid valve tomorrow if I get a chance. I don't think you'll be looking at that much draw though. I remember researching it when I ordered the goodies last year, but that was a while back and not something that I can recall off the top of my head. Either way a relay is cheap insurance and doesn't really complicate things any further.
Chris www.liquidaddiction.net (http://www.liquidaddiction.net)

[superdave013]

Originally posted by PC Rat:
My Bassett T-Valve seems to work pretty well as is. Although I have been trying to find a normally open solenoid valve that I can power with a WOT switch to shut off the water to the headers. It seems like the normally closed valves are a dime a dozen, but I'm having trouble finding a normally open valve at a reasonable cost-McMaster has been my only hope so far. Any ideas??
Try this site. http://www.ascovalve.com/
You can get them at pipe supply houses. If you find a part # and have trouble getting it let me know. I use their valves every day and can order it for you. I have a bunch of NO valves but the coils are all 120VAC.

[Party Cat]

Originally posted by flat broke:
I don't think you'll be looking at that much draw though.
The only reason I mentioned it is cause I have a few F-body buds that have fried window switches using NOS.
Like ya said it's cheap insurance.
C YA

[riodog]

Just a suggestion, call Paul (Bassett), if I remember correctly, at one time he sold the electric water control valves. I don't remember what the problem was but he could tell you.
Michael

[Bense468]

It sounds like a good idea the only thing I am questioning is if there is not spring or ball in the t valve then you will really be wetting your headers I would think when the solonoid is open. I don;t see why you would not keep the Spring and the ball in the t. It is going to be the same pressure as before. All the solonoid is doing is on or off. Just my 2 cents

[superdave013]

Originally posted by Bense468:
It sounds like a good idea the only thing I am questioning is if there is not spring or ball in the t valve then you will really be wetting your headers I would think when the solonoid is open. I don;t see why you would not keep the Spring and the ball in the t. It is going to be the same pressure as before. All the solonoid is doing is on or off. Just my 2 cents
I bought all my stuff used and didn't have the tee valve. I just put a little needle valve in line with my set-up. You're right as I too think there should be some kind of restriction.

[BrendellaJet]

TTT.
For a restriction cant you just rely on the brass header fittings? Even if the headers were plumbed with full water from the pump(not saying Im gonna do that...) If you weld up the brass fitting and drill a small enough hole, that should take care of the issue.