Assualt Weapons: Time to stock up

[Lightning]

Congress lets assault weapons ban expire
Gun dealers say it never worked; many police wanted it, though
The Associated Press
Updated: 11:01 a.m. ET Sept. 13, 2004BOISE, Idaho - The expiration Monday of a 10-year federal ban on assault weapons means firearms like AK-47s, Uzis and TEC-9s can now be legally bought — a development that has critics upset and gun owners pleased.
The 1994 ban, signed by then President Clinton, outlawed 19 types of military-style assault weapons. A clause directed that the ban expire unless Congress specifically reauthorized it, which it did not.
Studies done by pro- and anti-gun groups as well as the Justice Department show conflicting results on whether the ban helped reduce crime. Loopholes allowed manufacturers to keep many weapons on the market simply by changing their names or altering some of their features or accessories.
Similar models already sold
Gun shop owners said the expiration of the ban will have little effect on the types of guns and accessories that are typically sold and traded across their counters every day.
At the Boise Gun Co., gunsmith Justin Davis last week grabbed up a black plastic rifle resembling the U.S. militaryÂ’s standard issue M-16 from a row of more than a dozen similar weapons stacked against a wall.
The civilian version of the gun, a Colt AR-15 manufactured before 1994, could be sold last week just as easily as it can be sold this week. “It shoots exactly the same ammo at exactly the same rate of fire,” said Davis.

[Froggystyle]

Finally they get a clue.
Here's me when they come in...
http://www.heckler-koch.de/html/english/behoerden/03_rifles/03_images/03_07_weapon_01.jpg
HECKLER & KOCH Rifles and Carbines are recognized as the most technologically and tactically advanced weapons in the world. Reliability, modular construction, a true "system" approach, and a complete line of shoulder arms and accessories make HK the world leader in tactical armament.
Using the robust and reliable delayed blowback roller-locked bolt system developed by HECKLER & KOCH engineers for the HKG3 Automatic Rifle, HECKLER & KOCH has created a variety of weapons designed to meet any tactical need.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HK33KEA2 5.56mm x 45 with short 322mm barrel
and "0-1-25" trigger group
HK33KEA2/HK33EA2 FEATURES:
Extremely durable and reliable 25- or 30-round 5.56mm magazine.
Bipod attachment point.
All HK 5.56mm rifles and carbines come standard with 178 mm twist rifling.
Cold-hammer forged barrel ensures unmatched accuracy and service life.
Accessory claw-lock scope mount and telescopic sight. HK scope mounts attach without tools at special points that ensure 100% return to zero and do not interfere with use of weapon's iron sights.
Cocking lever on HK rifles folds out of the way.
Numerical trigger group common on many HK assault rifles provides for safe, semi-automatic, and fully automatic modes of fire.
Hey, that was post #5000! :rollside:

[NashvilleBound]

Nice 91..... I wonder where mine is nowadays......

[Freak]

HK was a client for a previous company I worked for. When I went to their facility they would let me fire the mp5's etc. that were in for service on the range. Pretty cool. Really Really nice stuff.

[cdog]

So will we be able to purchase in Ca. If not, is that a violation of our constitutional rights? I have a ar-15 bushmaster but keep it in AZ.

[Dave C]

But can we Kaleeifornians buy this stuff here or possess them?
We can't transport accross state lines? (that would be legal);)

[sintax]

From what I understand this ban being lifted will have no effect on our state, because our state gun laws are more strick then the federal law (which was the ban lifted)
-Scott

[fourspeednup]

Just picked up an SKS last weekend at the AZ gun show...modifications are in progress ;)

[cdog]

But can we Kaleeifornians buy this stuff here or possess them?
We can't transport accross state lines? (that would be legal);)
You cannot buy a ar-15 in Ca unless your a cop. I was told i can be arrested if caught with my post ban ar-15 in Ca. What a bunch of shit! Are the cops going to guarentee my saftey if we have another riot in Ca or if a natural disaster happens or even worse another terriost attack. I don't live in the getto but you never know and when you take away my right to defend myself you make all of us sitting duck's to those who will tresspass against us.
I can easly kill just about anyone with my car and say I did't see them. Does that mean cars should be illegal in Ca also? My advise, if you want to buy one or a dozen of these wepons don't buy them in Ca and don't let Ca know you have them or regester them in Ca. Once another Dem is elected we may loose them for good and if you have them already they propably can't take them away. I belive now in Ca they make you take their bullshit gun safety course when you buy a gun. I'd bet it has some kind of adendum to it that states that you know the current gun laws so they can nail you in court when they catch you doing something they don't want you doing. Don't buy any gun in Ca.

[NOTALENT]

actually..every state exept for california will be able to buy them..there just afraid of this because us cali cats..can drive next door to buy them.

[Froggystyle]

actually..every state exept for california will be able to buy them..there just afraid of this because us cali cats..can drive next door to buy them.
Which is exactly what I am going to do for now...
I have been regretting not buying that rifle for ten damn years.

[NOTALENT]

Which is exactly what I am going to do for now...
I have been regretting not buying that rifle for ten damn years.
I hear that but if u buy it out of state..and they decide to take them back in ca or if you are cought with it, it is a felony..you will do time..

[phuggit]

Froggy
Just wondering if you have ever had the chance to fire a HK in .308 cal. Was it controllable or all over the place?
I think my next rifle is going to be a heavier caliber...Turners has a M14 in .308 for $1600.00.

[ty34984]

the ban did nothing for assualt weapons, the reduction in crime, or crap else you could buy the same rifle ar 15 the day after the band just without the flash supressor and baynoet lug that was the only difference, ak sks and all were there always pre ban could be sold at will as for you cal folks MOVE AWAY

[SummerObsession]

Froggy:
You will love the HK: I had and sold (I know-I'm stupid) an HK 91 (I think that was the model number, the civilian .308 version of the above pictured weapon) and LOVED it!
Handled the .308 caliber with ease. VERY acurate.
I still have a pre-ban AR-15 flat top. And a few misc. other items.
Always wanted the Barret light .50 auto loader for coyotes at 1/2 mile+, that would be a good time!

[78Eliminator]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Now, if you read it above, a "militia" would be a group of people that would indeed, need weapns that ARE designed to kill humans. In fact, that is the whole purpose of the right. So, if they are only to allow bolt action deer rifles, it in effect disarms the people and voids the right
If you give them an inch, they'll take a mile. I am going to stock up as soon as they are back in the stores....

[NashvilleBound]

I hear that but if u buy it out of state..and they decide to take them back in ca or if you are cought with it, it is a felony..you will do time..
Exactly what he said!!!!!!!

[mirvin]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
I think you got too many commas there, tough guy.
See you at high noon :cool:
mirvin:hammerhea

[Racer277]

Froggy
Just wondering if you have ever had the chance to fire a HK in .308 cal. Was it controllable or all over the place?
I think my next rifle is going to be a heavier caliber...Turners has a M14 in .308 for $1600.00.
Many years ago they had the Raahauges (sp?) gun days in Corona. I got to fire the HK in both 556 and 308. Both were the nicest guns I ever fired, absolutely what they were made for was 308, no question.
Also got to fire some other cool stuff like the Casull.
The HK's were about a buck to fire a magazine. The Casull was about a buck for two shots.
Those were the days, when criminals were afraid of law abiding citizens.

[Froggystyle]

I hear that but if u buy it out of state..and they decide to take them back in ca or if you are cought with it, it is a felony..you will do time..
I wouldn't bring it in the state. You can't shoot them here anyway.
I have plenty of home protection right now. Plus, "doing time" isn't exactly what otherwise upstanding citizens do for a cross-border firearms violation.
In any case, I would never jeopardize my freedom for a gun. I will continue keeping my fingers crossed that California will come around to its senses. In any case, Trident is likely moving to Nevada, and I will just wait until then to actual have the thing.
I just really like guns. I am not a freak or anything, but that was one aspect of my life as a SEAL I totally dug. I love shooting. I love the discipline and the results of a properly planned and fired shot. DING!
:D

[Dr. Eagle]

I wouldn't bring it in the state. You can't shoot them here anyway.
I have plenty of home protection right now. Plus, "doing time" isn't exactly what otherwise upstanding citizens do for a cross-border firearms violation.
In any case, I would never jeopardize my freedom for a gun. I will continue keeping my fingers crossed that California will come around to its senses. In any case, Trident is likely moving to Nevada, and I will just wait until then to actual have the thing.
I just really like guns. I am not a freak or anything, but that was one aspect of my life as a SEAL I totally dug. I love shooting. I love the discipline and the results of a properly planned and fired shot. DING!
:D
My son just sold his AR-15 in Nevada. He could have gotten it grandfathered in California while he was in the army, but missed the registration deadline. He decided he wanted a M-1 Garand... in keeping with his WWII collection.

[C-2]

Can you now buy high capacity mags for semi-auto handguns, or are those still illegal under CA law?

[NOTALENT]

Can you now buy high capacity mags for semi-auto handguns, or are those still illegal under CA law?
they are still illegal I believe u cant have anything over 10rnds???

[Dr. Eagle]

Can you now buy high capacity mags for semi-auto handguns, or are those still illegal under CA law?
They are legal only if the magazines are designed to only hold blanks... :hammerhea

[dmontzsta]

Does that mean I can take my grandpas 45mm machine gun out of hiding? It is not registered and out of site.

[Froggystyle]

Does that mean I can take my grandpas 45mm machine gun out of hiding? It is not registered and out of site.
Probably not...
You could make it not work, and classify it as a relic or antique I guess.
F-that. The climate will change here...

[NashvilleBound]

Probably not...
You could make it not work, and classify it as a relic or antique I guess.
F-that. The climate will change here...
Your right, it will change, but it will never be as we want it. It WILL get tougher and tougher to buy weapons in the coming years. Unfortunately for Californians your on the top of the list. Its a crock!

[miller19j]

they are still illegal I believe u cant have anything over 10rnds???I donÂ’t think that is true.
It is my understanding that as long as they were manufactured pre ban they are fine. But I could be wrong this state does some goofy things!

[NOTALENT]

Let me tell ya'll a little story..My father and I are gun collectors..We love shooting, dissasembling and putting them back together racing each other etc. anyways..we went to azuza canyon shooting everyweekend and would always take my best friends..they new where we kept the guns..unforutunatley with no safe.well they got into the whole gang scene..and they ended up breaking into our house and stole our guns..which included an ak47 egyptian maddi, hungarian and a bulgarian, as well as a Bush Master ar15, ruger redhawk 44mag, and my grand fathers war gun M1 garand, as well as a carbine. anyways..a few neigbors saw them break in luckily so we knew who it was. Now my dad is one crazy mother F**cker..He strolled down to the gangs house...whom he knew most of..and called em out and they did there thing tried to get tuff until he knocked the bitches out. he gave them one day to return them..they did not so he called the cops they ended up finding them..and got the guns back. anyways..they were all preban. they took a safe that he had which had all the registrations, we did not get back..and with the worst luck..the gun shop had burnt down and had no records..so because of the law and no proof of reg. they ended counting each assult rifle as a felony. they tried taking him to jail for 25 yrs!! but they told him if he testified then they would drop it all and keep the guns and destroy them..so of course he did...and he got off..anyways this goes to show you how serious the law is..and how F**cked up they are!! sorry for the rant!!! Topic just got me thinking!!

[MudPumper]

Don't kid yourself people. The government let this ban expire only because this is an election year and nobody wanted to lose the votes from places like the conservative south. After the election another ban will be passed. Both Kerry and Bush support the ban and stats show that the majority of the country does also. As sad as it may be, this is only temporary.
As far as the communist state of California is concerned, nothing changes. All assault type weapons are still banned as are high capacity magazines. You can thank Dianne Feinstein for fu cking up California.

[Froggystyle]

Don't kid yourself people. The government let this ban expire only because this is an election year and nobody wanted to lose the votes from places like the conservative south. After the election another ban will be passed. Both Kerry and Bush support the ban and stats show that the majority of the country does also. As sad as it may be, this is only temporary.
As far as the communist state of California is concerned, nothing changes. All assault type weapons are still banned as are high capacity magazines. You can thank Dianne Feinstein for fu cking up California.
Well, Klinton ****ed up the country, but we are recovering. This ban gone is quasi-proof of that.
In any case, I am going to take this opportunity to buy my dream gun.

[MudPumper]

I hear ya Froggy, I'll be doing the same Via my address at my sisters Utah house and keeping them there until I move out of Cali. :wink:

[Havasu Cig]

Just heard Kerry on the radio saying Bush is going to make it easier for terrorist to get weapons now that the ban expired. :rolleyes:
I am glad I can buy in Arizona. California is a mess. ;)

[Kilrtoy]

You cannot buy a ar-15 in Ca unless your a cop. I was told i can be arrested if caught with my post ban ar-15 in Ca. What a bunch of shit! Are the cops going to guarentee my saftey if we have another riot in Ca or if a natural disaster happens or even worse another terriost attack. I don't live in the getto but you never know and when you take away my right to defend myself you make all of us sitting duck's to those who will tresspass against us.
I can easly kill just about anyone with my car and say I did't see them. Does that mean cars should be illegal in Ca also? My advise, if you want to buy one or a dozen of these wepons don't buy them in Ca and don't let Ca know you have them or regester them in Ca. Once another Dem is elected we may loose them for good and if you have them already they propably can't take them away. I belive now in Ca they make you take their bullshit gun safety course when you buy a gun. I'd bet it has some kind of adendum to it that states that you know the current gun laws so they can nail you in court when they catch you doing something they don't want you doing. Don't buy any gun in Ca.
Are you kidding me, you are going to take a full length AR15 in to close quarters combat (INSIDE YOUR HOUSE). You must have been some bad ass in the military and really know how to manipulate such a large weapon under these conditions..... Try a shotgun much more effective.

[NashvilleBound]

Are you kidding me, you are going to take a full length AR15 in to close quarters combat (INSIDE YOUR HOUSE). You must have been some bad ass in the military and really know how to manipulate such a large weapon under these conditions..... Try a shotgun much more effective.
The only thing your going to do with an AR15 inside your home with an intruder is kill your family 5 rooms away. Get a shotgun and use #6 shot. Will not penetrate a second layer of drywall. If you have kids store it safely!

[Racer277]

Are you kidding me, you are going to take a full length AR15 in to close quarters combat (INSIDE YOUR HOUSE). You must have been some bad ass in the military and really know how to manipulate such a large weapon under these conditions..... Try a shotgun much more effective.
Up here our land extends more than a few feet beyond our house. Outside of shotgun range a good cowboy gun works very well. :D
I do wish I picked up that HK94 and 93 way back when when I had the chance.

[Kilrtoy]

You would be amazed what a ventilated barrel on a shotgun can do at 50 yards. I'm talking all 9 pellets on target and a slug in the 10 ring at 100.

[Havasu Cig]

An AR-15 would not be my first choice as a home protection weapon (unless you are in my yard) but the .223 does not over penetrate. I know a person who did an extensive study on the AR-15 in .223 caliber and the result of the study was it did not over penetrate. The result of his study is the reason why many L.E. agencies in Ca. are now permitting their officers to carry the weapon.

[cdog]

Are you kidding me, you are going to take a full length AR15 in to close quarters combat (INSIDE YOUR HOUSE). You must have been some bad ass in the military and really know how to manipulate such a large weapon under these conditions..... Try a shotgun much more effective.
I have the 16 inch barrel. I've hunted since I was 12 and first took my hunters saftey course. I would never use any of my guns to harm anyone unless absolutly nessasary. If it's good enough for our military it's good enough for me. I used to be a expert marksman and often when bird hunting, would nail 5-7 quail with three shots. When I was younger we used to go quail hunting alot. I (unlike others) respect guns and what they can do. I would support a special permit to obtain these guns but to make them illegal is absolutly stupid. While we are at it lets make pencils illegal because I can take one of those and stab someone in the neck. The point is, it really all comes down to personal responsibality. Once you give them a inch, they take a mile.

[ROZ]

An AR-15 would not be my first choice as a home protection weapon (unless you are in my yard) but the .223 does not over penetrate. I know a person who did an extensive study on the AR-15 in .223 caliber and the result of the study was it did not over penetrate. The result of his study is the reason why many L.E. agencies in Ca. are now permitting their officers to carry the weapon.
When you say over penetrate, do you mean that the round just blow through a person with minimal damage vs. one round that blows half a body off? :D
Or do you mean that the round significantly decreases speed after passing through body tissue and won't kill someone 4 blocks away? :supp:
While I have shot guns, I am not a gun owner and don't know too much about them.

[ratso]

This thread is starting to get GAY...
Over penetrating...LMAO :D

[Bense468]

Pre ban mag have nothing to do with California. It is against the law to have over a 10 round mags in cali preban or not
Preban gets around the federal 10 round law. Other states benifit. California does not. :hammerhea

[cdog]

You can get 40 rd clips over the net.
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ar15m16.html

[KACHINA KEN]

Nice 91..... I wonder where mine is nowadays......
I had one too sold it for $450 in 87' :(

[Kilrtoy]

I have the 16 inch barrel. I've hunted since I was 12 and first took my hunters saftey course. I would never use any of my guns to harm anyone unless absolutly nessasary. If it's good enough for our military it's good enough for me. I used to be a expert marksman and often when bird hunting, would nail 5-7 quail with three shots. When I was younger we used to go quail hunting alot. I (unlike others) respect guns and what they can do. I would support a special permit to obtain these guns but to make them illegal is absolutly stupid. While we are at it lets make pencils illegal because I can take one of those and stab someone in the neck. The point is, it really all comes down to personal responsibality. Once you give them a inch, they take a mile.
So basically you are not qualified, shoting birds that have NO CLUE they are about to die, does not ready you for combat situations....
The military also has shortened barrels and collapsable stocks and alot of other cool things, like hundreds if not thousands of hours of training....

[cdog]

So basically you are not qualified, shoting birds that have NO CLUE they are about to die, does not ready you for combat situations....
The military also has shortened barrels and collapsable stocks and alot of other cool things, like hundreds if not thousands of hours of training....
Don't fool yourself. Some people act off of instinct. Deer hunting trains you on how to stalk prey. People can't smell you from 1/2 a mile away. I've gone hunting with many cops and a couple of snipers and navy seals, while I don't claim to be gi joe, I know that I have more tactical skills than your average guy.

[UBFJ #454]

In Arizona, as in most other States, Out of State Residents Cannot Buy Weapons ... You must have Proof of Arizona Residency ... Then you must go through the Background Check, Waiting Period, Etc. ... Sorry Guys.

[Kilrtoy]

Either way a poor choice to make a point that you need to protect your family with a AR15. There are alot of better choices. Do I own guns yes, I do and do not agree with the assault weapons ban.
Buy a Beretta semi auto shot gun, problem solved....

[Stealth Marine]

Finally they get a clue.
Here's me when they come in...
http://www.heckler-koch.de/html/english/behoerden/03_rifles/03_images/03_07_weapon_01.jpg
Nice choice of bedside weapons.
I am now on my 3rd HK91 and have a USP45 tactical that keeps it company.
God Bless Arizona as a PRO-GUN state...

[NashvilleBound]

I had one too sold it for $450 in 87' :(
Hope you didnt sell it at the AZ gunshow...thats where I bought mine...around the same time.
I wish I had the chance to sell mine too, tho I could not negotiate looking down the barrels of 20 black fatiged feds :eek: :eek: :eek:

[cdog]

Either way a poor choice to make a point that you need to protect your family with a AR15. There are alot of better choices. Do I own guns yes, I do and do not agree with the assault weapons ban.
Buy a Beretta semi auto shot gun, problem solved....
I have a couple of Beretta's and Glocks but my Para Ordinance 45 is my gun of choice. The only shot guns I have are for hunting. Where did you get the idea that I have a AR-15 as home protection. I don't even have it in Cali. I bought my AR-15 just incase Kerry gets elected because I know that the next time a Dem is in office assult rifles will go the way of the dinosours. Only the bad guys will have them if they are illegal. Meanwhile I don't think i'll ever be out gunned by a robber. Just remember our gun choice is one of the reasons why the USA is special and differant than those other dip shit backward ass country's. And i'm proud that I have that choice weather you agree with it or not. Since you seem to know so much about firearms, Where does your know how come from?

[77charger]

heres my ar i bought before the ban here.To be honest i can care less about it being a post ban at the same time it does fire the same.But now that the fed ban has expired i am going to buy the short barrel(m4 type)with the flash hider why because i can now.Also have plenty of mags for this baby but this gun has a match trigger and work done on it easily shoots under 1 inch groups.
I am a gun hobbyist too to me its a sport.I reload alll my ammo and do match quality just some anti gunners dont understand F them.Like froggy said i do regret not buying a receiver before the cali ban they were 150 i thought it was too high since they use to be 75-100 bucks(yup call me cheapskate)
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/398the_ar.JPG

[77charger]

Either way a poor choice to make a point that you need to protect your family with a AR15. There are alot of better choices. Do I own guns yes, I do and do not agree with the assault weapons ban.
Buy a Beretta semi auto shot gun, problem solved....
I can agree with you on this my ar 15 is not my home gun its a 1911.45 cal not my match one either but my near stock colt with a trigger job(light pull).Reason it feeds any hollow point i load,never jams,and dead on accurate.Plus it wont fire a bullet thru my house and neighbors too.A shorty ar15 is good but IMO overpowered as well as most rifles.My suggestions to people who ask me what gun for home defense.A revolver(if you are new to firearms-easy to use and good for all levels of experience)or a shot gun with a pistol grip

[steelcomp]

Froggy
Just wondering if you have ever had the chance to fire a HK in .308 cal. Was it controllable or all over the place?
I think my next rifle is going to be a heavier caliber...Turners has a M14 in .308 for $1600.00.
M14's are still legal in CA, in certain trim.
Have you ever seen an AR (18 i think) Actually was the predecessor of the ar15...it's an exact copy of an ar15, only in US .308! THAT'S a bad mamma jamma. You can get those in AZ.
Tha ban being lifted does nothing for CA.

[steelcomp]

I can agree with you on this my ar 15 is not my home gun its a 1911.45 cal not my match one either but my near stock colt with a trigger job(light pull).Reason it feeds any hollow point i load,never jams,and dead on accurate.Plus it wont fire a bullet thru my house and neighbors too.A shorty ar15 is good but IMO overpowered as well as most rifles.My suggestions to people who ask me what gun for home defense.A revolver(if you are new to firearms-easy to use and good for all levels of experience)or a shot gun with a pistol grip
I agree with your home defense ideas.
I think the shotgun is best...just point in the general direction and shoot.
The AR is for gettin 'em as they go over the fence! (For those of us out on the ranch)
I prefer a Vang Comp Systems 12 GA. (modified 870)
Used by most Fed and law enforcement groups. Shoots a 12" .00 buck pattern
at (I think) 50 yds.
I have a Stainless Springfield Armory .45 with a few mods...love that one. Ever heard of a COP .357 4 barrel revolver? Hand held cannon.
I think anything with a pistol grip in CA is illegal...but maybe not in shot gun. I know it is in CF rifle.

[steelcomp]

heres my ar i bought before the ban here.To be honest i can care less about it being a post ban at the same time it does fire the same.But now that the fed ban has expired i am going to buy the short barrel(m4 type)with the flash hider why because i can now.Also have plenty of mags for this baby but this gun has a match trigger and work done on it easily shoots under 1 inch groups.
I am a gun hobbyist too to me its a sport.I reload alll my ammo and do match quality just some anti gunners dont understand F them.Like froggy said i do regret not buying a receiver before the cali ban they were 150 i thought it was too high since they use to be 75-100 bucks(yup call me cheapskate)
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/398the_ar.JPG
Sweet!!!

[cdog]

Since the ban is now lifted can I now install a flash supressor on my post ban AR? Seems as though the post ban guns should now be grandfathered in under any trim since it is legal to buy the full monte. Funny my gun is in AZ and I bought my HI-Cap mags in Cali. All these laws are stupid.

[lghtnin33]

I have owned pre-ban and post-ban rifles and pistols for all of my life. The only thing the liberal law did was for me was to sacrifice a few parts on my guns both rifle and pistol. I am extremly pleased the politicians have been scared enough to let this law lapse, because they may lose their seat if they do not listen too "THE PEOPLE". Finally "THE PEOPLE" win one, but just by chance,I do believe if this wasn't so close to election the polititions would have resigned the bill. And the biggest problem with the point is, we don't get out there and speak our opinions enough.The problem is we "THE PEOPLE" are too busy making a living for our families and hobbies that we stay silent and are continuously governed by those who don't have anything better to worry about than what's Best for us "the special interest groups". Well they lost, but I do expect a big run for new control in the future. My only reactance to them, is we have to let "THE PEOPLE" be heard loud and clear and "fear a government that fears your weapons".The rifles and pistols we posess as a free people, keep us free, freedom is not cheap as all free people should know.In all thought, by any rational aggressor you would be be a fool to try to invade a country where all the citizens were armed.

[Sleek-Jet]

M14's are still legal in CA, in certain trim.
Have you ever seen an AR (18 i think) Actually was the predecessor of the ar15...it's an exact copy of an ar15, only in US .308! THAT'S a bad mamma jamma. You can get those in AZ.
Tha ban being lifted does nothing for CA.
You're thinking of an AR-10. Arma-lite makes them.

[KACHINA KEN]

Hope you didnt sell it at the AZ gunshow...thats where I bought mine...around the same time.
I wish I had the chance to sell mine too, tho I could not negotiate looking down the barrels of 20 black fatiged feds :eek: :eek: :eek:
nope , Leesville Louisiana. I was stationed at Fort Polk 86-88 needed money.

[Sleek-Jet]

Does that mean...
If you're seriouse, I wouldn't exactly post that kind of info on the internet.

[Kilrtoy]

I agree with your home defense ideas.
I think the shotgun is best...just point in the general direction and shoot.
The AR is for gettin 'em as they go over the fence! (For those of us out on the ranch)
I prefer a Vang Comp Systems 12 GA. (modified 870)
Used by most Fed and law enforcement groups. Shoots a 12" .00 buck pattern
at (I think) 50 yds.
I have a Stainless Springfield Armory .45 with a few mods...love that one. Ever heard of a COP .357 4 barrel revolver? Hand held cannon.
I think anything with a pistol grip in CA is illegal...but maybe not in shot gun. I know it is in CF rifle.
SOMEBODY KNOWS WHAT THE F*** IM TALKING ABOUT
Van Comp is the most awesome shit yes it is 50 yards and if your good 75 with double OO....
That it what I use on my shotgun with the 16" & 14" with pistol grip collapsable stock..... accuarcy to no end.....

[WUTWZAT]

Here is a plus to a revolver as a home defense weapon. If an intruder is shot at your home a semi-auto pistol spits shell casing all over the place not leaving any room to decide if the intruder was shot in the house and ran / stepped out or was shot outside the house with you in the doorway. Remember, drag'em back in the house and kick on the sprinklers. :D You didn't shot him in the back, he through his back into the bullets.
Home defense = three guns here, each depending on who, what and where. Just checking the house, its a Sig 229 (.40 Cal) night sites and action job loaded with safety bullets, like shot gun shells for a semi-auto. Remington 870 pistol grip with tactical light, for when I know someones in the house / yard. And the old standby, Sig 220 (.45 ACP)night sites, action job, extended mag and tactical light with this bad boy on its easier to smell the bad guy than see him. :messedup:
Jason

[Kilrtoy]

I have a couple of Beretta's and Glocks but my Para Ordinance 45 is my gun of choice. The only shot guns I have are for hunting. Where did you get the idea that I have a AR-15 as home protection. I don't even have it in Cali. I bought my AR-15 just incase Kerry gets elected because I know that the next time a Dem is in office assult rifles will go the way of the dinosours. Only the bad guys will have them if they are illegal. Meanwhile I don't think i'll ever be out gunned by a robber. Just remember our gun choice is one of the reasons why the USA is special and differant than those other dip shit backward ass country's. And i'm proud that I have that choice weather you agree with it or not. Since you seem to know so much about firearms, Where does your know how come from?
I do not know alot about firearms, but I do know which weapon to choose when I go to a gun fight..... my choice of weapon in close combat quarters is a shotgun or handgun, for field work a AR15 will do just fine.....

[Kilrtoy]

Here is a plus to a revolver as a home defense weapon. If an intruder is shot at your home a semi-auto pistol spits shell casing all over the place not leaving any room to decide if the intruder was shot in the house and ran / stepped out or was shot outside the house with you in the doorway. Remember, drag'em back in the house and kick on the sprinklers. :D You didn't shot him in the back, he through his back into the bullets.
Home defense = three guns here, each depending on who, what and where. Just checking the house, its a Sig 229 (.40 Cal) night sites and action job loaded with safety bullets, like shot gun shells for a semi-auto. Remington 870 pistol grip with tactical light, for when I know someones in the house / yard. And the old standby, Sig 220 (.45 ACP)night sites, action job, extended mag and tactical light with this bad boy on its easier to smell the bad guy than see him. :messedup:
Jason
What know laser :2purples:

[XtrmWakeborder]

Hey froggy what weaponry did you use as a seal...were you a 60 gunner? and what was your sidearm of choice. Hk is my favorite company next year when i turn 21 i plan on buyin an mk23 and a psg1 later
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1815mark23main.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1815psg1a.gif

[Sleek-Jet]

What know laser :2purples:
I've got Laser sights on my 1911, they are the shit.
It's as easy as point and click.... boom!!.

[WUTWZAT]

nah, the laser just makes it heavier and harder to led the perp, high speed low drag..... :D actually, if I went with the laser, I could get the choice gel job on my boat :jawdrop:
Jason
Kilrtoy for President still...........

[steelcomp]

You're thinking of an AR-10. Arma-lite makes them.
Yeah, that's it..been a while. Love that one.

[Kilrtoy]

nah, the laser just makes it heavier and harder to led the perp, high speed low drag..... :D actually, if I went with the laser, I could get the choice gel job on my boat :jawdrop:
Jason
Kilrtoy for President still...........
yeah but they only give you 5 paint schemes to choose from....

[steelcomp]

SOMEBODY KNOWS WHAT THE F*** IM TALKING ABOUT
Van Comp is the most awesome shit yes it is 50 yards and if your good 75 with double OO....
That it what I use on my shotgun with the 16" & 14" with pistol grip collapsable stock..... accuarcy to no end.....
Hans Vang is a good friend...he did the work on my .45
Funny thing is, he just moved to AZ!!! We miss him here. Now THERE'S a guy you don't mess with.

[steelcomp]

Does that mean I can take my grandpas 45mm machine gun out of hiding? It is not registered and out of site.
montzsta...
45mm???? Do you know how big that is? (almost two inches) I think you mean .45 cal. Sounds like the 'ol Tommy gun!!! Man, would that be cool. Useless, but cool! :cool:

[Boatcop]

Glock .40
Remington 870
TASER (In case I just want to mess with someone. :D )
Need I say more?
Yes I can!
I can legally carry concealed in al 50 States. (Thank You HR 218)

[Kilrtoy]

I can legally carry concealed in al 50 States. (Thank You HR 218)
God bless G.W. BUSH

[Racer277]

montzsta...
I think you mean .45 cal. Sounds like the 'ol Tommy gun!!! Man, would that be cool. Useless, but cool! :cool:
In the early 90's me and my boys would regularly go to vegas to fire the auto weapons (they used to rent them- yes full auto).
We rented uzi's, mp5's, steyr's, etc.
Well one day a 70+year old guy next to us rents a 45 tommy gun. He emptied a full clip at 25 yards, one big hole in the center ring. :cool:
We were all VERY impressed. Even the instructors on the range.

[Jeanyus]

OK now this is a topic that gets me excited.
Home security
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/5859coachgun.jpg
My fist choice is the double barrel coach gun, 3 inch mag 00 buckshot.
Easy to load in the dark, short, loud. Whatever is coming towards you will be on the ground or going away from you after ya give em both barrels.
Bobcats racoons foxes have all died trying to raid the chicken coop.
And the SW 357 to clean up with.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/5859garand.jpg
Yea My assalt weapon technology is old, but effective, just ask the Krauts, and Japs, M-1 Garand M-1 carbine. My dad swears by that little carbine.

[miller19j]

An AR-15 would not be my first choice as a home protection weapon (unless you are in my yard) but the .223 does not over penetrate. I know a person who did an extensive study on the AR-15 in .223 caliber and the result of the study was it did not over penetrate. The result of his study is the reason why many L.E. agencies in Ca. are now permitting their officers to carry the weapon.
I guess the term over penetrate here needs to be defined.
A .223 with a 55 grain bullet has a muzzle velocity of aproxomatly3250 and one shooting a 62 grain bullet has a muzzle velocity of approximately 3100. Those are both of the standard “Ball” loadings. That is moving a full metal jacket bullet pretty fast. I would bet that it would quite easily punch through several interior walls. Although it will not penetrate as far as a .308 or a 30-06 per say I personally wouldn’t want to use on in a house.
I donÂ’t use firearms for self defense, I just live out in the sticks where there arenÂ’t any criminals. :D

[cave]

My AK. Yea she gets used her in AZ. I love it here! Sheriff dont bother me at all. In Cali it got taken away from me by the La Cresenta Sheriff. Rudest LE peps I ever met. Got it back after firing cheap corrosives all pitted on the mag. They also banged up the wood purdy good hence the Black paint. The mill brake really works to keep the front end down and the night fire looks awesome.
http://members.cox.net/jetboater454/binez_end.jpg
The little ones,
http://members.cox.net/jetboater454/my_5_of_many1.jpg
The Berreta 9mm kurts is my concealed defence. Its the wood handled one, below that is my Yugoslave 9mm kurts though away. just in case :D My Glock 17 with 17 round clip. Dam those last couple are a biatch to get in. My ruger 9mm 15 round clip. I have my Smith & Wesson 5904 for my sidearm. Kinda old but dam accurate for an auto.
In AZ you can own a full auto after you give up your right to privacy from the feds and get an arms dealer license. Its a transfer stamp. Now I can get that Colt M4 Civil mod I hope w/ telescoping stock.... I reload with a Dillon (No BS) reloader. Now repeal those taxes on reloading equipment & supplies!!!

[XtrmWakeborder]

http://members.cox.net/jetboater454/my_5_of_many1.jpg
The Berreta 9mm kurts is my concealed defence. Its the wood handled one, below that is my Yugoslave 9mm kurts though away. just in case :D My Glock 17 with 17 round clip. Dam those last couple are a biatch to get in. My ruger 9mm 15 round clip. I have my Smith & Wesson 5904 for my sidearm. Kinda old but dam accurate for an auto.
In AZ you can own a full auto after you give up your right to privacy from the feds and get an arms dealer license. Its a transfer stamp. Now I can get that Colt M4 Civil mod I hope w/ telescoping stock.... I reload with a Dillon (No BS) reloader. Now repeal those taxes on reloading equipment & supplies!!!
Nice Glock! What caliber, .40?

[cave]

Most are 9mm now. The 40 got expensive to pop off. I reload and 9's are everywhere in our desert.
http://world.guns.ru/assault/m4sopmod.jpg
Man I hope this last. My future addition to the family If Kerry untz da media dontz winz.

[steelcomp]

In the early 90's me and my boys would regularly go to vegas to fire the auto weapons (they used to rent them- yes full auto).
We rented uzi's, mp5's, steyr's, etc.
Well one day a 70+year old guy next to us rents a 45 tommy gun. He emptied a full clip at 25 yards, one big hole in the center ring. :cool:
We were all VERY impressed. Even the instructors on the range.
You certainly don't do that for the first time. He's done that before. I said useless...only because they're a handfull!!! If you knnow how to use one, however, they're one of the most destructive close range weapons ever made. VERY effective. Much hurt comin outa that barrel!!!

[dc96819]

Glock .40
Remington 870
TASER (In case I just want to mess with someone. :D )
Need I say more?
Yes I can!
I can legally carry concealed in al 50 States. (Thank You HR 218)
Can you have it on you when traveling on an airline

[LOWRIVER2]

Us cops can't carry on an airline unless we get prior approval from our department's for official business. Smaller agencies are pretty liberal on what "official" is.
As for Ca. laws, nothing has changed with assault weapons. From 12280PC (possession of the assault weapon) to 12276PC (definition/list of assault rifles/shotguns)
High cap. mags are still banned
12020(a)(2)P.C. reads: It is unlawful for any person to manufacture,cause to be manufactured, import into the state, keep for sale, or offer or expose for sale, or give or lend, any large capacity magazine.
Read between the lines and there's a way to have these things, I'm not going to point out what it is.
Plenty of cops have homes in Havasu with temp. resident id's and have bought assault rifles in AZ.
The Ca. law on assault weapons leaves only 2 ways to go if you are found to own an unregistered assault weapon: 1. Turn it in 2. Show the out of state address you "own" where the weapon is kept (ie. it's never in the state) Some owners have done this via renting lockers in Pahrump, Nev. so they did not have to register the guns.
The Ca. law is stupid. FBI stats show less then 4% of all gun crimes involve assault rifles (that's 4% of ALL gun crimes including possession cases).
I worked the LAPD gun detail before I went to Metro. LAPD is the only police dept. in Ca. that activiely goes after gun crimes. The Ca. DOJ is the only other entitiy that enforces these laws and there's 28 of them for the whole state. There's roughly 15 in the LAPD unit. Needless to say, all the law abiding guys who secretly own assault weapons in their closets are'nt going to get rounded up anytime soon. The only time these guys lose their guns is when they smack their wives and the po po show up and discover the guns when they have to take all the guns in the house for a 72 hour mandated "cooling off period".
Remember:
Ca. DOJ has no DROS records of rifles prior to 99" and no DROS records of Pistols prior to 89" . All FFL dealers however, must by law keep their records of sale for life and these records can be checked at any time per the law.
Yes, I'm no boat expert but gun laws in Ca.?.... I got y'all covered.
And 77Charger is the most well informed civillian I know when it comes to these laws. He did his homework.
My work guns:
Glock 21/Surefire X200 halogen tac light (Safariland duty holster with light mount carry)
Bennelli M1 with 14" barrel/surefire tac light
M4 with surefire tac light/Acog 4X32
For my home CQB, hard to beat the GLOCK, shotguns are great with a team or novice shooters, can't beat a .45 for agility and proven record of stopping power.
The 55 gr. .223 has been marginal at best for knock down. Most of the MEU 1 and Seals have jumped to the .78 grain bullet as it has done better. The negative is that only M4's can handle the bullet without tumbling. We had a shooting in May with two suspects each taking double taps to the ten ring and each was still able to stand with a hand gun. (55 grain) Rounds were fired from 40 yards. One was dispatched with a .223 to the head. The other took 00buck to the hip/ 10 more .223's to the chest and bled out though his ass/ but still lived with a colostomy bag. It's the heavier rounds for us now, we learned the hard way.

[ratso]

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a jailer...they had a guy in the pen with a colostomy bag who got a venerial disease. He was letting guys "drill" him there... :eek: :2purples: :eek:

[ratso]

...sorry if I ruined anyones breakfast.

[gramps]

You can get 40 rd clips over the net.
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ar15m16.html
one of the FEW great things about livin' in Utah...........I can buy as many 40 round mags as I want at the store or gun show.....also you can get a concealed carry permit here!!!!! With my permit I can walk into any gun store in the state, buy any gun they have and take it home with me. NO waiting period.

[miller19j]

High cap. mags are still banned
12020(a)(2)P.C. reads: It is unlawful for any person to manufacture,cause to be manufactured, import into the state, keep for sale, or offer or expose for sale, or give or lend, any large capacity magazine.
So high capacity mags are not banned. You just canÂ’t manufacture, import or sell them.

[Havasu Cig]

In Arizona, as in most other States, Out of State Residents Cannot Buy Weapons ... You must have Proof of Arizona Residency ... Then you must go through the Background Check, Waiting Period, Etc. ... Sorry Guys.
Not true...
You can walk into the DMV (forgot what they call it in AZ) in AZ and you can get an AZ ID card in about 15 minutes. You can then go to your local gun shop present the ID and walk out with a weapon. They do instant background checks and there is no waiting period on most firearms.
My other 1/2 and I got AZ Id cards this past year. I was prepared to show proof we owned a home there, but they did not care and did not ask for anything.

[al cole'holic]

I don't see how this changes anything for California residents??

[LOWRIVER2]

A/C
read my post, it does'nt

[Excessive Force]

So high capacity mags are not banned. You just canÂ’t manufacture, import or sell them.
So i would take that as, if you can get your hands on one and your caught its ok cuz your not doing any of the above? <not good at reading between the lines.

[Excessive Force]

Pre ban mag have nothing to do with California. It is against the law to have over a 10 round mags in cali preban or not
dont think thats true, got a ccdub with a 15 rnd sw 5904

[IDK]

You have to show proof of residence for 90 days to buy a fire arm in AZ and the id will show that you just got it that day . If you owened the EVIL ASSULT WEAPON or hi cap mags before Jan. 1 , 2000 you could grandfather them in and shoot them when ever you want you just had to register them pre or post ban. I love my AR 10s, more than my M 14 and M1A I just wish they had C-MAGs for the AR 10 .As far as defence pistols go my choice is a 1911 ser 80 COLT with a triger and ramp job and HYDRA SHOK and ask questions later ! :crossx: Roger

[MudPumper]

LowRiver, good post. It's nice to see cops that present the facts as to what kind of crimes are committed with assault weapons. I was at BR on Labor Day standing right in front of you but didn't realize who you were until you had left and somebody told me. Anyway, I wish I would have known I would have loved to pick your brain for a while. Maybe some other time.

[77charger]

And 77Charger is the most well informed civillian I know when it comes to these laws. He did his homework.
It is all part of responsible ownership.otherwise you are guilty til proven innocent and ignorance will not be an excuse if you violate the law.Ah now i can legally get the m4 upper and collapsable stock just because i can :)I just cant do anything to my mini 14 since i didnt register it so it has to stay in stock form A folding stock would have been a nice addition to it since it is my favorite plinker.What is the magazine loophole?I know if you have them legally you can buy the parts to repair them.Ex you smash a mag body you can buy a new one(body only).

[Havasu Cig]

You have to show proof of residence for 90 days to buy a fire arm in AZ and the id will show that you just got it that day . If you owened the EVIL ASSULT WEAPON or hi cap mags before Jan. 1 , 2000 you could grandfather them in and shoot them when ever you want you just had to register them pre or post ban. I love my AR 10s, more than my M 14 and M1A I just wish they had C-MAGs for the AR 10 .As far as defence pistols go my choice is a 1911 ser 80 COLT with a triger and ramp job and HYDRA SHOK and ask questions later ! :crossx: Roger
If that is true then I guess it depends what gun shop you go to. The one I went to did not care how long you have had your id as long as you had one.
I agree on the 1911. I keep one cocked and locked in the house along with a few other weapons. :cool:

[77charger]

I don't see how this changes anything for California residents??
Real quick.
any magizine over 10 rnds cannot be imported,made,bought sold,transferred after dec 31 1999.If you have one before then it is yours for life or til you die in ca.
rifles-Any semi auto center fire detach mag gun with one of these features.pistol grip, folding or collapsable stock,threaded barrel,flash suppressor,bayonet lug,forearm grip,any ak series or ar15 series,and some pistols threaded baller or grip foward of the magazine well.(tec 9s,some competition guns) are considered assualt weapons and you have to have them registered before 2000 with the doj same deal it is yours for life unless you move out of state.legal to shoot but restricted to long to explain but read on it i can still legally shoot mine on public land but you have to check the laws before hand.

[Sleek-Jet]

one of the FEW great things about livin' in Utah...........I can buy as many 40 round mags as I want at the store or gun show.....also you can get a concealed carry permit here!!!!! With my permit I can walk into any gun store in the state, buy any gun they have and take it home with me. NO waiting period.
Utah cc permits also have reciprocity in most mid-West and Western states (excluding Nevada and California). I got one when I lived in Colorado. All it took was a Saturday class, 2 passport photos, fingerprints, and the filling fee, send it all off to Salt Lake, and bingo, concealed carry. This was before Colorado became a "shall issue" state.
Now I live in Arizona, but still have my Utah CC permit.

[Excessive Force]

thought cali was a no reciprocating state?

[Sleek-Jet]

thought cali was a no reciprocating state?
It is, that's why I said excluding Nevada and California. I don't know why Nevada doesn't have reciprocity, but California is obviouse.
Also, Utah will issue to out of state/non-resident.

[Excessive Force]

whoops my malo :hammer2: ...old age!

[Froggystyle]

I just took a rep hit on this thread :devil:
Of course the brave gent who did so didn't sign it either. The good news is, I know exactly when it was, saw it happen, who was on line and only one person who was on line could have taken that exact number of points off... so congrats dipshit... comin back to ya!
The embarrassing thing is how long I spent doing the math figuring out who it was. Turns out this is all based on a mathematical formula. It becomes... transparent.

[XtrmWakeborder]

I just took a rep hit on this thread :devil:
Of course the brave gent who did so didn't sign it either. The good news is, I know exactly when it was, saw it happen, who was on line and only one person who was on line could have taken that exact number of points off... so congrats dipshit... comin back to ya!
The embarrassing thing is how long I spent doing the math figuring out who it was. Turns out this is all based on a mathematical formula. It becomes... transparent.
Weak...What did they say?

[Froggystyle]

Weak...What did they say?
No quote. No worry... I already got them back.

[Wicky]

Congress lets assault weapons ban expire
Gun dealers say it never worked; many police wanted it, though
The Associated Press
Updated: 11:01 a.m. ET Sept. 13, 2004BOISE, Idaho - The expiration Monday of a 10-year federal ban on assault weapons means firearms like AK-47s, Uzis and TEC-9s can now be legally bought — a development that has critics upset and gun owners pleased.
The 1994 ban, signed by then President Clinton, outlawed 19 types of military-style assault weapons. A clause directed that the ban expire unless Congress specifically reauthorized it, which it did not.
Studies done by pro- and anti-gun groups as well as the Justice Department show conflicting results on whether the ban helped reduce crime. Loopholes allowed manufacturers to keep many weapons on the market simply by changing their names or altering some of their features or accessories.
Similar models already sold
Gun shop owners said the expiration of the ban will have little effect on the types of guns and accessories that are typically sold and traded across their counters every day.
At the Boise Gun Co., gunsmith Justin Davis last week grabbed up a black plastic rifle resembling the U.S. militaryÂ’s standard issue M-16 from a row of more than a dozen similar weapons stacked against a wall.
The civilian version of the gun, a Colt AR-15 manufactured before 1994, could be sold last week just as easily as it can be sold this week. “It shoots exactly the same ammo at exactly the same rate of fire,” said Davis.
Gotta love Boise!!!

[Havasu Cig]

Same rate of fire as an M-16? Depends what you have the selector switch on. It is statements like this that gives the uninformed bad info and a negative outlook on so-called "assault weapons". A true "assault weapon" can be switched from semi to automatic fire with a selector switch. :rolleyes:

[Liberator TJ1984]

I have several " Civilian " AR 15's
They WILL NOT fire the same rate unless highly modified which is still Illegal to do with out a Class III License and believe me you do not want to get caught even trying to modify your rifle to do so ,as this is considered to be malicious intent and you will be busted !!!!! the same as if it was a machine gun !!!!
a Remington model 760 30/06 will fire just as fast as a so called assault rifle just dosen't hold as many bullets :hammerhea

[Froggystyle]

Note on automatic weapons.
In the entire time I was in the SEAL teams, I never once switched my selector to auto except to screw around. It has little or no tactical purpose, and is a waste of ammo.
One shot, one turbaned head exploding into red mist...

[Lightning]

I just took a rep hit on this thread :devil:
Of course the brave gent who did so didn't sign it either. The good news is, I know exactly when it was, saw it happen, who was on line and only one person who was on line could have taken that exact number of points off... so congrats dipshit... comin back to ya!
The embarrassing thing is how long I spent doing the math figuring out who it was. Turns out this is all based on a mathematical formula. It becomes... transparent.
I took a rep hit as well, with no sig, wtf? If you don't like something or someone at least sign you name to it.

[Froggystyle]

I took a rep hit as well, with no sig, wtf? If you don't like something or someone at least sign you name to it.
Just now?

[Lightning]

No, at 11:43 -
I did what you said and printed screen.

[Froggystyle]

Check your PM's.
I bet you $100 that name I sent you is on the list of people. Do what I showed you with the formula and it will add up too...
Have some balls dude... sign your negatives. :burningm:

[Racer277]

One shot, one turbaned head exploding into red mist...
:D :D :D

[DEAL BROTHER]

Can you guys get a "Right to Carry" permit in CA? We sure can here in TN. My Colt Pocket Pony is always with me and the Ruger 9mm is in the console - 100% legal just the way the founders of our country intended!!!!

[Kilrtoy]

Next to impossible in so cal,
maybe up north in okie towns.....

[77charger]

Note on automatic weapons.
In the entire time I was in the SEAL teams, I never once switched my selector to auto except to screw around. It has little or no tactical purpose, and is a waste of ammo.
One shot, one turbaned head exploding into red mist...
aint that the reason for the burst function on the m-16s,m4s?I have been lucky to shoot full autos m-16 and ak47 and the 3 round burst seems to be the most efficient at hitting targets more than 3 in a row=lots of fun but inaccuracy.I know an fbi agent who was showing me his mp5 at one time i saw it also had a burst selector as well as full auto.

[Havasu Cig]

I got out of the Army in 91 and at the time we were using M-16A2's. You had a choice of either single shot or 3 round burst. Before we had the A2's we were using A1's that had the choice of either single shot or automatic. In automatic mode you could empty a 30 round magazine in a little over 2 seconds. I am not sure if the M-4's are full auto capable or have the 3 round burst like the A2's.