Won't Start!!

[rsr]

Looking for some help - here's my problem - 4th of July weekend go to start boat and it won't turn. Figure starter must be bad, cross the positive to negative on the starter, it turns, turn key and boat starts. Everytime we stop we have to 'prestart' starter before it will turn with ignition. Not a problem, gets us through the weekend. As weekend goes on it takes more and more 'prestarting' to get it to work so we figure we better put new starter on before next time out. Next time up install new starter, hook everything back up, turn key and it still won't start. Almost seems like there is not enough current getting to starter to kick it over. Try 'prestart' again and it works, but only sometimes. Thought that ignition wire might have somehow gone bad so ran direct wire from ignition to starter bypassin wiring harness. Still having the problem (note - Installed new ignition early in season and had no problems at all untill 4th of july weekend). Any thoughts or other quick fixes to check? It seems to me that for some reason I am not getting enough current to the starter for it to kick? FWIW - it's a fresh 454, bottom mount starter, normal deal, also running new batteries bought at the beginning of season. One of my buds suggested that maybe my battery cables are bad or specifically the ground has gone bad, any thoughts on this idea? Thanks in advance for any and all info or help. RSR

[1978 Rogers]

I've had a similar problem. I replace the starter relay last year. I think I need to do it again. I just bought a starter off someone on here. I'm hoping this will help also. Good luck with your problem.

[kachina_labala]

Do you have a slave solenoid powered by the ignition switch or do you go directly to the starter solenoid? Most boats run a slave solenoid due to the current needed to pull in the starter solenoid and the length of the wire all the way to the back.

[Rexone]

Do you have a slave solenoid powered by the ignition switch or do you go directly to the starter solenoid? Most boats run a slave solenoid due to the current needed to pull in the starter solenoid and the length of the wire all the way to the back.
Excellent call...
I have a wiring diagram I can scan and post for this if you need just PM me.
:)

[rsr]

Thanks for the info so far. Quick question - was talking to a buddy today and he said he thought that maybe my starter was the problem - that it wasn't aligned right and that the reason it wouldn't start was that it was binding up, and that the prestart with the screwdriver allowed for the starter to loosen up so that it would kick when the key was turned. What do you think? He suggested loosening the starter just a tad and trying to turn it over with the key? Sounds possible to me, but maybe I'm just hoping that it will be that easy!

[Rexone]

Thanks for the info so far. Quick question - was talking to a buddy today and he said he thought that maybe my starter was the problem - that it wasn't aligned right and that the reason it wouldn't start was that it was binding up, and that the prestart with the screwdriver allowed for the starter to loosen up so that it would kick when the key was turned. What do you think? He suggested loosening the starter just a tad and trying to turn it over with the key? Sounds possible to me, but maybe I'm just hoping that it will be that easy!
Not likely. If that was the case you'd hear the starter bendix gear crashing into the flywheel (as in noise). It's likely you have a voltage drop in the wire loom that is borderline enough to keep the starter solenoid from kicking. It's a common problem particularly as boats (and cars) age. Things corrode, and get loose and dirty. A starter solenoid is simply a relay. If you don't give it enough voltage (from the ign switch wire that runs clear from the dash) it will not trip. There are other things this could be like a dead spot in armature. But the voltage drop is a common thing so I would give it a shot based on your description of the problem.
Here is a wiring diagram for auxiliary slave solenoid wiring to correct low voltage to the starter solenoid.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/732auxsolenoid.jpg

[Shark In The Pond]

Do you have a slave solenoid powered by the ignition switch or do you go directly to the starter solenoid? Most boats run a slave solenoid due to the current needed to pull in the starter solenoid and the length of the wire all the way to the back.
I had to put one on mine also ,got it from Painless and for what it costs and achieve's it's a must in my book .

[kachina_labala]

Just this year I went to a high torque mini starter. It was 1/2 the size half the weight and 100 times easier to install since I have to stand on my head and hold it up with one arm. It only cost $238 new and had a waurentee. Definatly worth it just in the easy install.

[roostwear]

Not likely. If that was the case you'd hear the starter bendix gear crashing into the flywheel (as in noise). It's likely you have a voltage drop in the wire loom that is borderline enough to keep the starter solenoid from kicking. It's a common problem particularly as boats (and cars) age. Things corrode, and get loose and dirty. A starter solenoid is simply a relay. If you don't give it enough voltage (from the ign switch wire that runs clear from the dash) it will not trip. There are other things this could be like a dead spot in armature. But the voltage drop is a common thing so I would give it a shot based on your description of the problem.
Here is a wiring diagram for auxiliary slave solenoid wiring to correct low voltage to the starter solenoid.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/732auxsolenoid.jpg
With as much as that solenoid resembles the FOMOCO solenoid, I hope nobody wires a FOMOCO that way. The 2 small terminals on a FOMOCO are marked "I" and "S" . The "I" provides a 12 volt (non resistor) power source for the ignition when cranking only. The "S" is the circuit from the ignition switch to actuate the solenoid. Just a little more info just in case.

[rsr]

Thanks for the help guys, sounds like the slave solenoid might be the answer to the problem. Rexone - thanks for the diagram - do you guys stock what I might need? If so how much? If not where can I get it? Another question - where do most mount it? Thanks again for all the info.

[Rexone]

Thanks for the help guys, sounds like the slave solenoid might be the answer to the problem. Rexone - thanks for the diagram - do you guys stock what I might need? If so how much? If not where can I get it? Another question - where do most mount it? Thanks again for all the info.
We stock a couple varieties, the one above the CH 24117-01 is in stock and is $33.78. It is a plasticised coated (similar to rubber) "marine duty" version and matches the wiring above.
We also have the CH 24022 which is more like the traditional fomoco type. It does not have the ground connection like the one above otherwise wired the same. It does not have the plasticized coating. It is $17.23.
Either will work and they are usually mounted fairly close to the engine or on the engine.
Hope that helps.

[rsr]

Thanks to everyone for the ino - sounds like my next alternative will be the slave solenoid. Will try to pick one up this week and head up to the river next weekend to give it a try. Thanks again for everyone's input.
Rexone I'll PM you with a few questions - thanks

[rsr]

Gonna go pick up the slave solenoid from rexone this week and install it this weekend - hope it works. Anybody got pictures of where they installed their slave solenoids? Thanks

[rsr]

Special thanks to Kachina Labala and Rexone for hitting the nail on the head. Went up to the river this weekend, installed the solenoid I got from rex, turned the key and boat fired like a champ. Ran all weekend not a problem. Thanks again for everybody's help!

[kachina_labala]

Any time! Glad to hear that you had good fortune with it

[1978 Rogers]

I have a wiring question about my new starter. My old starter had a relay on the back of fly wheel cover (see attached photo). From this I had a positive wire go to my old starter. The new "High Torque" starter I bought has a threaded copper post, I guess is for the positive wire. It also has a big terminal about 1/2" away. The terminal has a black plastic shroud around it. What gets connected to this terminal. Sorry I don't have a photo right now of the new starter.

[1978 Rogers]

Here is the old relay.