Mandatory Licensing of Boaters?

[Essex502]

With the recent collisions on the Colorado River and Lake Havasu does anybody besides me see a future where some form of regulation will be imposed on us, the boating public? If that regulation were to take a form, what would the rest of you support?
Also, any constructive comments should be posted. If we, as the boating public, get involved early enough in the legislative process just maybe we can shape the regulation so that it isn't so restrictive as to be burdensome to us.

[BADBLOWN572]

This topic has been brought up a couple of times in the past and some people are for and some are against. The biggest complaint is that it would be just another way for the local governments to make money and restrict our rights. It would also be extremely difficult to enforce. I do agree that there should be some way to regulate boaters and hold them accountable for their actions, but I am still debating on if the liscenses are the answer.

[lucky]

accidents happen weather some one says you can do somthing or not --- keep the fun in it for our future generations - i liked driving the boat when i was 14

[Roxysnow]

I heard that a few years back Governor Davis rejected a bill that would required boaters take boater safety and licensing. But due the high cost to initiate, the bill was rejected. Just what I heard.

[Roxysnow]

accidents happen weather some one says you can do somthing or not --- keep the fun in it for our future generations - i liked driving the boat when i was 14
I am assuming you weren't alone? now a days, I see 14 yr olds riding PWC's alone? F'n crazy!

[RobR.]

I would be in complete argeement with this if it would help prevent some of the accidents that have occured in the last couple months. Also I would think that it would help out with the price of insurance.

[HCS]

Mandatory education. When you pass they give you a licence would be fine
with me.
I don't think you need a drivers test. :notam:

[LakeRacer]

Mandatory Education.
So many of you have complained that any joe blow can purchase a 100mph boat without any experience in boating whatsoever. Will mandatory education solve all the problems? No. But it will help tremendously. And make it a requirement that all rental businesses can only rent to people who have passed a safe boating class.
Like I said, it won't solve all of the problems but it will help.

[lucky]

I am assuming you weren't alone? now a days, I see 14 yr olds riding PWC's alone? F'n crazy!
when my partents felt i knew the boat and rules- i'd take the boat for a lil run - when i was sixteen i got a rayson flatty

[OGShocker]

I am torn. On one hand, I do not want big brother ef'ing around with more regulations on my life style. On the other hand, I think something needs to be done to educate the "newbie" boater as to the laws and common courtesies of boating.
Nice thread!

[BADBLOWN572]

I am assuming you weren't alone? now a days, I see 14 yr olds riding PWC's alone? F'n crazy!
I will disagree with you on that one. Using age as a marker for safety is B.S! No offense. I was taking out our 80 mph jet boat boat alone at 12-14. No problems ever. If you are brought up on the river and have hundreds/thousands of hours on the water it is no big deal. Age is a stupid marker to measure ability by. I would trust a 12-14 year old on the water a lot more than some 30 year old who just bought a boat and has never driven one for the first time. I would rather have someone get checked out and have their parents accept responsibility for their child's actions versus put a blanket statement saying that they cant drive until ____ age. I was driving my parents back at about 10 when they got too drunk to drive. So what! No one ever got hurt and I learned real quick what to do and what not to do.
I will admit that I am probably the exception to the rule when it comes to the amount of time on the water at an early age. I was there at least twice a month from the ages of 2-16 and almost every week from 16-25. I have more hours behind me at 25 than most 50-60 year olds do. I can guarantee you that my new neice will be driving the boat as soon as she can reach the wheel and I would have no problems letting her go out by her self probably about 14 in the boat. Experience and seat time make a big difference. A lot more than age. Just my .02

[Dribble]

I favor some sort of voluntary certification Like ASE that could help lower your insurance premiums.

[mirvin]

You should at least have to pass a written test. The biggest problem out there is that people DO NOT KNOW THE RULES. If they don't know the rules you can pretty much say that they don't know the guidelines, common courtesey's, etc. of boating so......there you go. Education will go a long way.
mirvin :wink:

[lucky]

did you like the YOU ALL -
most of you resoniable boaters where raised around them -
as an exsample I live in the rurals of cali- at age 12 i use to ride my motorcyle to town - and my father would let me drive ( while he was in the vech) his ol 72 checy pick up - when i turned 16 i did not want to wait to get my lic - so i paid for a summer class - got it with a 100% ( ohh by the way i use to drive my dads peterbuilt when i was 14 also ) which leads me to another point -- all the "farm boys" that grew up in trucks are by far better drivers than the people that have had no expericence and went to school to learn to drive big rigs ---- experienc and the person are dertiming factors - not a piece of paper ... In todays busy world - i would not let my daughter learn to drive like i did - but give me a country road - and i'd do it in a ny second ... :D

[Ziggy]

I voted Education.
Interestingly I just had a conversation with a relative in Germany about Lisencing in general.
First we discussed driver license.
Then motor cycles and then boating. All of which require intensive training before licenses are issued, at great expense to the licensee.
I find they have an interesting policy when it comes to Motorcycles, wherein they license you for a certain Horsepower. After so many months or years you automatically graduate to the next HP level, unless you have a reported incident.
Could this may be an approach that could be levied on boaters??? I mean, many of you are critical about new owners with 100+mph boats so would this method be a viable option?
I think having mandatory schooling and passing a written test should be first and foremost.
Just thinking outloud here.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I voted Education.
Interestingly I just had a conversation with a relative in Germany about Lisencing in general.
First we discussed driver license.
Then motor cycles and then boating. All of which require intensive training before licenses are issued, at great expense to the licensee.
I find they have an interesting policy when it comes to Motorcycles, wherein they license you for a certain Horsepower. After so many months or years you automatically graduate to the next HP level, unless you have a reported incident.
Could this may be an approach that could be levied on boaters??? I mean, many of you are critical about new owners with 100+mph boats so would this method be a viable option?
I think having mandatory schooling and passing a written test should be first and foremost.
Just thinking outloud here.
That is an interesting concept Ziggy. Might be difficult to implement it though. I voted for mandatory education. That should at least be required.

[BADBLOWN572]

Ok, playing devils advocate here, how many of you have been required to attend traffic school and when it was done, go right back out and do the same thing that you got busted for. I know that I have. I simply think that most people will go to the mandatory education simply to get their boats & just sit there for the end certificate. 99% will not remember or learn anything. Also, the problem with that is that only the registered owner of the boat would have to attend. What about buddies, wives, girlfriends, etc... What is to stop them from getting behind the wheel and driving.
Another problem with education does not teach you how to 1) read the water, 2) operate your boat safely, etc... All that it teaches you is the rules of the road. When you screw up, what will happen??? NOTHING!
We need to find a way to hold people responsible for their actions. I do not know if liscensing is the way to do it, but something has to be done. I know a guy who has 2 DUI's (one extreme) on land and 1 OUI on the water. All in less than 5 years. Even when his liscense was suspended, he would drive his boat around, trashed, all day long. Those are the guys you have to worry about.
I would also be 100% in favor of eliminating boat/jet ski rentals. I see it all the time when a family decides to go to the river for a holiday weekend and rent a single jetski/boat for the whole family to ride. They simply take turnes and none of them know shit about the equipment or how to ride it. We were almost taken out by them 2x on Labor Day. F&*k that!

[Essex502]

I think the least that should be done is mandatory Boater Safety/Coast Guard Rules and Regulations training. A tough test at the end of the training class should lead to a operator's certificate. Charge for the class enough to cover the cost of presenting and printing of the appropriate certificate. Make it self supporting - no taxes!
Also, any rental boat companies should be required to rent only to a certified operator under the program. Their name must be on the rental contract and by signing the agreement they must state that no other person can drive the boat other than the certified operator. If more than one operator is expected to drive the rental - then those specific names and operator's certification numbers must be listed on the contract.
Easy to police - if stopped by LE on the water the driver must show proof of certification. If the person driving the boat does not have an operator's certification then a citation is issued similar to a traffic ticket. That person can tell it to the judge why they shouldn't be fined. Leave it to the LEO's discretion on an emergency situation like an injury or illness of the certified operator.
Just thoughts...
The thing to remember...if you wouldn't hand your car keys to a person to drive your car you probably shouldn't hand the boat to that person also.

[Huckleberry]

Every state requires you to have a license to drive a car. A car that is on a paved highway, with marked lanes, dividers, speed limits and more rules/laws than you could ever imagine. Yet the same states allow any schmoe to go out and buy a rocketship boat. A boat that will be driven on rough water, with no lanes, dividers, posted speed limits, much fewer rules, and oh yeah, you can drink while you operate it too!
My vote went for education and a license after passing the education test, not necessarily an on-the-water driving test though. I agree with no licese, no renting boats either.

[Essex502]

Ok, playing devils advocate here, how many of you have been required to attend traffic school and when it was done, go right back out and do the same thing that you got busted for. I know that I have.
Yep, you're right I have done that. But, with the proper testing at the end of the class if the person doesn't pass they don't get a certification.
I simply think that most people will go to the mandatory education simply to get their boats & just sit there for the end certificate. 99% will not remember or learn anything.
If they have to pay for it and spend a substantial amount of time (several hours) and know that they will be tested something might sink in.
Also, the problem with that is that only the registered owner of the boat would have to attend. What about buddies, wives, girlfriends, etc... What is to stop them from getting behind the wheel and driving.
Every operator would need to be certified. Stopped by LE and the operator doesn't have certification - citation.
Another problem with education does not teach you how to 1) read the water, 2) operate your boat safely, etc... All that it teaches you is the rules of the road. When you screw up, what will happen??? NOTHING!
You're right on the experience end but at least the standard stuff such as right of way, passing, safe practices, etc. would be covered. There is no substitute for experience and level-headedness behind the wheel. You can't legislate either of these.
We need to find a way to hold people responsible for their actions. I do not know if liscensing is the way to do it, but something has to be done. I know a guy who has 2 DUI's (one extreme) on land and 1 OUI on the water. All in less than 5 years. Even when his liscense was suspended, he would drive his boat around, trashed, all day long. Those are the guys you have to worry about.
Confiscate the boat on repeat offenses maybe? Harsh but seems to be working a little with hookers/johns and street racing in SoCal in the cities where it is a practice to confiscate the vehicle of convicted perps.
I would also be 100% in favor of eliminating boat/jet ski rentals. I see it all the time when a family decides to go to the river for a holiday weekend and rent a single jetski/boat for the whole family to ride. They simply take turnes and none of them know shit about the equipment or how to ride it. We were almost taken out by them 2x on Labor Day. F&*k that!
Maybe with a certification program less rentals will occur. Of course the rental companies will fight like hell to prevent this kind of legislation from becoming law.
Anyway...this is good dialog....

[Sane Asylum]

I can't fockin believe someone wants to put me in a class, try to teach me somthin that I'm the expert in and make me learn somethin new.....Don't they know that I know everything,,,,,,,Seen it all......I can even drink and do it just as well.....
The fockin nerve.....I know everything there is to know about drivin a 100+ miles an hour on the water.....Nobody can show me chit.....
OK.........That's what I get outta some of these posts...What the fock is wrong with attending some class where....God forbid......We might learn something....If nothing else you may be able to share your experiences and expertise with someone who really is beginning. It may be the person who was going to run into you with their gayliner next weekend.... :frown:
OK....I'm done.....Just me humble .02.....
Begin with flaming excersizes.....

[LakeRacer]

OK.........That's what I get outta some of these posts...What the fock is wrong with attending some class where....God forbid......We might learn something....If nothing else you may be able to share your experiences and expertise with someone who really is beginning. It may be the person who was going to run into you with their gayliner next weekend.... :frown:
OK....I'm done.....Just me humble .02.....
Begin with flaming excersizes.....
No flaming here. That is exactly what I look for in my boating safety classes that I teach. Personal experience. And you would be surprised how many "experienced" students actually admit they did learn something new.

[Essex502]

No flaming here. That is exactly what I look for in my boating safety classes that I teach. Personal experience. And you would be surprised how many "experienced" students actually admit they did learn something new.
Art...how long are your classes? 1 hour? 2 hours? Longer? Is there a test at the end to verify that the material was absorbed/learned by the attendee?

[LakeRacer]

Art...how long are your classes? 1 hour? 2 hours? Longer? Is there a test at the end to verify that the material was absorbed/learned by the attendee?
It's an 8 hour class. Lots of material is handed out as part of the class and there is a test at the end. Students need a passing grade of 80% to get their certificate.
There are other classes offered that split the 8 hours into two 4 hour segments. These are usually done from 6-10 oclock at night during the week. My class is always on a Saturday, once a month.
Since we are on the subject of education, go the the Hot Spots West and look at the schedules for different classes in Arizona and California. I put the list together and it wasn't hard to find the information on the internet.

[Ion]

I think one must have a valid driver's license before they can operate a boat. If for any reason they lose their driver's license, they also lose their boating privaleges. Perhaps that would provide a good incentive for habitual drunk drivers, who happen to own a boat, to WISE-UP!

[uclahater]

I say you have to be able to speak English or you cant drive, and all of the manditory education and licenseing is in english :D If someone without a license is caught driving your boat then the boat owner loses his license. I think this would eliminate at least 50% of the lake lice out there :D

[Magic34]

I'm all for getting a license or education to help, if my insurance costs are reduced. Obiviously, I would like less injuries and death as well.
This may start some sh#t, but I wouldn't mind a clause in an insurance policy if you are in an accident and are intoxicated at any level(based on the legal system scale), you void your coverage as well. Maybe there is one, and I have missed it.
After paying my first year of insurance for a cat, $4k, I have no problem doing what I have to, including not comsuming one drop, to stop the excessive increases in the insurance industry.
Some cat owners are paying much more(thousands) than me as well.
Just my .02

[Essex502]

Not a bad idea.

[bocco]

Licensing could cut down on the number of clueless people that rent PWCs. How many times have you seen a rental jet ski plowing a wake through the marina? Non boaters have no clue about no wake zones.

[lucky]

I say you have to be able to speak English or you cant drive, and all of the manditory education and licenseing is in english :D If someone without a license is caught driving your boat then the boat owner loses his license. I think this would eliminate at least 50% of the lake lice out there :D
no habla azzhola - yes this would eliminate all the border crossing also - it not human to swim the river - they drive skaters ----

[Essex502]

Insurance should be a requirement just like driving a car...

[Essex502]

I am surprised that 46% (9/16/2004 - 6:30 AM) would support BOTH mandatory education and licensing...that's interesting...I'd certainly like to see more people vote. With thousands of members here there's still only a small fraction that have voted.

[Essex502]

back up to the top.

[Ducatista]

I voted for education & licensing. Something like they do for operating a motorcycle, but with out a drivers test. That could be bypassed by taking the approriate safety class, just like taking the motorcycle safety class does. I don't know of any other way to force people to educate themselves. I think this would help lower the statistics on watercraft accidents. The ideas mentioned eariler on restricting/regulating rentals would help also.

[Essex502]

Back to the top. Common...we need more voters!

[Seadog]

Only 10% voted to do nothing, so I think it is apparent that we need changes. I do not like the idea of voiding insurance on drunk citations. I agree that we should do everything possible to keep drunks from behind any wheel, but without insurance, it is the victims that will suffer.

[rrrr]

I took the 8 hr. course several years ago with my wife and son. At that time, a kid between 13 and 16 could ride a PWC if they had taken the course. It was a nice family experience, and my wife and son learned some stuff.
The test was easy for me, being an old rule-following fooker ;) . Took 10 minutes to take the test and got a 100. No big deal.
I get a 5% insurance discount because of it. Good. I don't think any experienced boater should complain if the testing becomes mandatory. Just think of it as a way to help weed out the idiots.
I still think a deck gun would be the best way to deal with lake lice. :D

[Essex502]

Only 10% voted to do nothing, so I think it is apparent that we need changes. I do not like the idea of voiding insurance on drunk citations. I agree that we should do everything possible to keep drunks from behind any wheel, but without insurance, it is the victims that will suffer.
What about a possible "proof of insurance" requirement along with the licensing? If stopped by a water cop...no proof of insurance...suspend the license and impound the boat?
Just thoughts...

[Ducatista]

What about a possible "proof of insurance" requirement along with the licensing? If stopped by a water cop...no proof of insurance...suspend the license and impound the boat?
Just thoughts...
I like that idea......

[Essex502]

Any other thoughts on this subject?

[shueman]

Boating Saftey and Rules of the Road (water) should be mandatory....(nationally...!!??) Liability insurance as well....
How 'bout this: When you renew your vessel registration, you have to submit a written test (comes with the renewal) and proof of insurance....
The written test should be relevant to the size of the vessel and usage areas. "operator's permit" as it were...
Same with insurance companies. Require proof of competency. If the boat is registered in your name, you are liable....
Anyone selling a boat should be required to transfer the Rules of the Road to the buyer. No sale without proof of competiency by the buyer, else the seller becomes liable....
Impounding: Good thing. Get busted on the water, loose your ride; 6 months/one year minimum.....
In Calif, you can get all the info free and even take the test on-line..recommended...
Just this ol' fart's 2¢

[Sleek-Jet]

Why not something like a Hunter's Safety program for boaters??
You can either spend a couple nights attending class's, pass a test, and have a Boater's Safety card which is required to get the boat licensed or to operate a watercraft (such as a rental). This type of card would be good either for several years or lifetime.
-or-
Take an afternoon "quickey" course that would only be good for one year.
Just an idea.

[Sleek-Jet]

What about a possible "proof of insurance" requirement along with the licensing? If stopped by a water cop...no proof of insurance...suspend the license and impound the boat?
Just thoughts...
Some of us can't get insurance on our boats... :frown:

[Havasu_Dreamin]

At the very least we need mandatory education. A boating safety course should be mandatory to operate a boat. I'll even go so far to say that a builder should require proof of completion of a boating safety course to even sell a boat. You can't buy a car without a drivers license.
As far as what needs to happen upon renewal, it can be either madatory that a boating safety cass be taken each year in order to re-register or, as with cars, require it every few years.
Each and every time you get pulled over by a LE officer while on the water you should be required to provide proof of insurance. You have to with a car.
Personally, I would think that wherever you are launching your boat that the facility would want to know that you are carrying insurance.
Remember the Topock accident? What happnes if that person does not have insurance? I'm not saying they didn't as I have no idea. Just using it as an example. Sure, Topock Marinas own insurance will pick up the slack but I'm sure their insurance rates will suffer since they would be shouldering the blame alone. I can guarantee you that all of those boats that were destroyed, they may have been insured but their insurance companies are going to go after someone, be it the insurance company of the boat that originally caught fire or the marina's insurance carrier. Soneone always pays it it eventually trickles down to each and everyone one of is in the form of higher premiums.
If you get pulled over on the water it is determiend that you are operating your boat at a time when your drivers license is suspended or revoked, then you the same penalities that you would receive for driving your car while not licensed should carry over to driving your boat at the same time.
I'm not a fan of increased government regulation, believe me, but with all that has happened we are headed to that point. Also, as someone else said, only 10% of those that voted feel things should stay the same. A full 90% of us feel that some type of enforcement, be it additional law enforcement, mandatory boating safety course, licensing of boaters, or all of the above, needs to occur.

[Seadog]

Proof of insurance is a farce. The bums will get insurance and after they get the card and renew tags or what ever, they cancel. My wife got re-ended by a drug dealer from Kansas. The cops did little to investigate. He showed proof of insurance and was gone. The next day he was busted for dealing and was out on bail and over the border by evening. Invalid insurance card and no way to confirm it. And what if they did catch it? They throw the people in jail, they post bond and are gone. If they own the vehicle, it is either crap or has more money than its worth owed on it. These yahoos know how to play the system and love making suckers out of the poor smucks.

[Debbolas]

I think one must have a valid driver's license before they can operate a boat. If for any reason they lose their driver's license, they also lose their boating privaleges. Perhaps that would provide a good incentive for habitual drunk drivers, who happen to own a boat, to WISE-UP!
This is a really good point!!
If you need a drivers license to drive a car, why not a boat? Keep the license after you pass the class, show it to the nice police officer that stops you at the marina BEFORE you launch, after showing him your fire extinquishers and life jackets, (enough for all on board)
If you were forced to attend, I think you would learn something, in spite of yourself. ( a little nagging voice in the back of your head that tells you to go to the right, instead of left when driving on the river)
:D

[missboatnam1]

I think one must have a valid driver's license before they can operate a boat. If for any reason they lose their driver's license, they also lose their boating privaleges. Perhaps that would provide a good incentive for habitual drunk drivers, who happen to own a boat, to WISE-UP!
i agree!! even if they are 14. as long as they pass the test!! :rollside:

[shueman]

At the very least we need mandatory education. A boating safety course should be mandatory to operate a boat. I'll even go so far to say that a builder should require proof of completion of a boating safety course to even sell a boat. You can't buy a car without a drivers license.
As far as what needs to happen upon renewal, it can be either madatory that a boating safety cass be taken each year in order to re-register or, as with cars, require it every few years.
Each and every time you get pulled over by a LE officer while on the water you should be required to provide proof of insurance. You have to with a car.
Personally, I would think that wherever you are launching your boat that the facility would want to know that you are carrying insurance.
Remember the Topock accident? What happnes if that person does not have insurance? I'm not saying they didn't as I have no idea. Just using it as an example. Sure, Topock Marinas own insurance will pick up the slack but I'm sure their insurance rates will suffer since they would be shouldering the blame alone. I can guarantee you that all of those boats that were destroyed, they may have been insured but their insurance companies are going to go after someone, be it the insurance company of the boat that originally caught fire or the marina's insurance carrier. Soneone always pays it it eventually trickles down to each and everyone one of is in the form of higher premiums.
If you get pulled over on the water it is determiend that you are operating your boat at a time when your drivers license is suspended or revoked, then you the same penalities that you would receive for driving your car while not licensed should carry over to driving your boat at the same time.
I'm not a fan of increased government regulation, believe me, but with all that has happened we are headed to that point. Also, as someone else said, only 10% of those that voted feel things should stay the same. A full 90% of us feel that some type of enforcement, be it additional law enforcement, mandatory boating safety course, licensing of boaters, or all of the above, needs to occur.
Nice post; right on target...!!!

[LilHarley]

I understand some of the ideas that "when I was a kid" we did this. But ... unfortunately, we're not in Kansas any more Toto! 13 years ago, myself and kids would ride the jet skies to the reeves up river at Havasu and just wind through the mazes there. We would take the boats all over and see few people. Now, it's like a freeway. I am not about to let any of the kids learn there. On smaller weekends, yes, but I would like to see education and license for any age. If a young adult can pass, seems to know the rules, I believe that he or she would be a shade more respectful and not be as quick on doing stupid things with the possibility of losing the license.
As far as adults go, same thing. Have them go through a class, boating safety, etiquette and launching rules/etiquette as well. Make them pass a test and license them. At least it's a starting point for someone new, with the same ideas as far being a little more respectful and not being foolish. I'm quite sure all of the experienced boaters could pass this test easily, so time lost would be minimal for everyone.
Probably can guess, I voted for both education and license.

[Kilrtoy]

Traffic school
85 % of the people who get tickets and go to traffic school will get a ticket within the next 30 days for the same thing.
That usually stops after that due to the fact of rising insurance cost potential loss of vehicle and the inablity to move around at will.
God forbid you go to a class and learn something even if you walk away learning 1 thing, YOU LEARNEED SOMETHING NEW, that can save your life or someone else
Boating is the last thing that you do not need a license for, AND YOU SHOULD