It's No Longer Ford vs. GM - it's back to US vs. Japanese

[MagicMtnDan]

The incentive-laden sales strategy of the American automakers has taken its toll since it came about in response to the sales drought after Sept. 11, 2001. DaimlerChrysler's Chrysler division lost $496 on every car it sold in 2003, compared with $48 at Ford. GM made a profit of $178 per vehicle, a measly total compared with per-car profits of $1,488 at Honda Motor, $1,742 at Toyota Motor and $2,402 at Nissan Motor.
GM may still sell more cars than any other automaker, but Toyota's market capitalization — the value of its stocks — is ordinarily about $80 billion to $100 billion more than its closest competitor. At press time, Toyota's market cap was $128 billion, compared with $26 billion at Ford and $24 billion at GM. We constantly hear talk on television about how the U.S. is the world's last superpower, but Toyota could buy this country's two biggest automakers — two of its biggest companies overall — without going to the bank.
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Imagine Toyota buying both Ford and GM without breaking a sweat! :jawdrop:

[Gerard]

Everything I own is American made (House, truck, boat, etc...)
I try to buy American whenever possible.

[Tom Brown]

If you want an American made vehicle, you need to buy one of the Japanese marques. The Camary is built pretty much in it's entirety in the US.
If you buy an American marque, you are buying a vehicle, 80% of which has been imported from china/mexico/taiwan/et al.
The us versus them thing is not as simple as it used to be.

[MagicMtnDan]

If you want an American made vehicle, you need to buy one of the Japanese marques. The Camary is built pretty much in it's entirety in the US.
If you buy an American marque, you are buying a vehicle, 80% of which has been imported from china/mexico/taiwan/et al.
The us versus them thing is not as simple as it used to be.
You're right Tom but, when you buy an "American vehicle" (I'm talking about a vehicle made by a company headquartered here in America - Ford and GM and perhaps Chrysler) then the company is rewarded with revenue, profit, higher valuation and market cap which will make it tougher for the Japanese, Korean and German companies to buy them or put them out of business.

[Kachina26]

Gerard, some of those "American" truck you like are made in Canada or Mexico. With MANY parts coming from all over the world. Look at your VIN# if the first digit is a 1 then you bought one assembled here. 2 for Canada and 3 is Mexico.The GM w cars regal, lumina etc were canadian made for a long time, and I think still are. There were lots of Mexican made subs too. Food for thought, not all "American made" cars are feeding working people here.

[MagicMtnDan]

Gerard, some of those "American" truck you like are made in Canada or Mexico. With MANY parts coming from all over the world. Look at your VIN# if the first digit is a 1 then you bought one assembled here. 2 for Canada and 3 is Mexico.The GM w cars regal, lumina etc were canadian made for a long time, and I think still are. There were lots of Mexican made subs too. Food for thought, not all "American made" cars are feeding working people here.
It really isn't about "feeding working people here." The Japanese and other car makers who have plants here are doing well and keep their plants open which in turn pays their workers.
I personally think that Toyota and Honda are the two best automakers in the world (we own a Chevy truck and a Lexus IS300) but it's important to support AMERICAN COMPANIES whenever possible (in my opinion).
Speaking of which, what if a Japanese company started making custom boats? :confused:

[HighRoller]

Stop the presses......you're only telling half the story. While automakers do sometimes take a hit on the initial sale of the vehicle, they make tons of money on the financing. Auto makers are no longer in the car business, they are finance companies with cars in the showroom. They're not stupid. They'd glady take a hit on the sale to get you to pay tens of thousands in interest over 4,5 or even 6 years. They know that 9 out of 10 people have to finance a car so that's where they've decided to make their profits. If you ever want a good example of how finance-driven the car market is, go into a dealership and tell them right of the bat you're pre-approved for outside financing or you're paying cash....Not to mention they make a killing on leases. I always found it funny that car makers push leases as a "smart alternative" to buying. Yeah...for THEM!

[1stepcloser]

Toyota has a North American HQ division here. TMS was established in the U.S. in 1957.
well over 10,000,000 million vehicles have been produced here.
A few facts about Toyota;
TMC directly employs over 36,000 american people.
and indirectly employ's over 200,000 americans.
TMC has directly invested over $15,000,000,000.00 into the american economy.
TMC's cumulative purchasing is close to $23,000,000,000.00
Since 1991, TMC has invested more than $225,000,000,000.00 in the U.S.
They have 7 manufacturing plants online throughout the U.S. and an 8th scheduled for Texas.
At a time when most domestic manufacturers are taking manufacturing out of the country to escape high costs, Toyota continues to bring manufactuing into this country.

[Kachina26]

It really isn't about "feeding working people here." The Japanese and other car makers who have plants here are doing well and keep their plants open which in turn pays their workers.
I personally think that Toyota and Honda are the two best automakers in the world (we own a Chevy truck and a Lexus IS300) but it's important to support AMERICAN COMPANIES whenever possible (in my opinion).
Speaking of which, what if a Japanese company started making custom boats? :confused:
I'd have a hell of a time going over there to check on the progress of my baby.
Seriously though, supporting American companies who are doing their best to outsource (what a jacked up way of saying send away) good paying jobs to other countries i.e. Dell's customer no service and tech support went to India. I'm for supporting American companies, but not blindly. I have 2 hyundai cars in my garage because I can't buy an american commuter car. They just don't exist at a reasonable price or quality level. My Truck is a GMC! And I love it. But after reading you caveot "whenever possible" I guess we just said the same thing :D . I kinda giggle a little when I hear someone say they drive American made when in fact it's Mexican made. That's all.

[FRENCHIE]

I'd have a hell of a time going over there to check on the progress of my baby.
Seriously though, supporting American companies who are doing their best to outsource (what a jacked up way of saying send away) good paying jobs to other countries i.e. Dell's customer no service and tech support went to India. I'm for supporting American companies, but not blindly. I have 2 hyundai cars in my garage because I can't buy an american commuter car. They just don't exist at a reasonable price or quality level. My Truck is a GMC! And I love it. But after reading you caveot "whenever possible" I guess we just said the same thing :D . I kinda giggle a little when I hear someone say they drive American made when in fact it's Mexican made. That's all.
Hey just to let ya know traffic is a mofo by 215 n and 30 n over by downtown cuz of route 66!! Couple hours and ill be checkin da cars out!! :wink:

[Racer277]

I kinda giggle a little when I hear someone say they drive American made when in fact it's Mexican made. That's all.
How about their "American made" Harleys with the jap electronics, jap rubber, etc, etc. I always laugh.
I agree about the car quality, after spending a few years in rental cars, I can't figure out who designs the average american car. Between the cupholders (a couple are under the ebrake), the controls (many can't be seen from the driver seat), the gauges (ditto), etc, they are just poorly designed, and after 10k miles, falling apart.
I do own two Chevy's btw. :D :D
If you are impressed by those Toyota numbers, check out their F1 program:
Two cars, 18 races, 1000+ employees, over 1 Billion dollar budget.
:2purples: :2purples:

[Flying Tiger]

Both Toyota, and Nissan have announced plans for a 3/4 and 1 ton Pickup truck with larger V8 engines than currently offered.
Ford will soon offer the new GM 6 speed automatic Allison for their pickup line.
They need it.
GM needs better fit and finish, especially in their interiors,,
Ford needs to take a closer look at its accessory drives and cooling system quality/performance.
I love Toyotas,, but I havent found a Toyota dealer yet that is halfway decent to it's customers.
http://www.americansandassociation.org/myalbum/albun42/PB260056_003.sized.jpg
I love my GMC more.
An awsum towing vehicle and great for dating hot women

[Kachina26]

Hey just to let ya know traffic is a mofo by 215 n and 30 n over by downtown cuz of route 66!! Couple hours and ill be checkin da cars out!! :wink:
Thanx boss! I doubt it will affect me much. Ready to get outta here.

[1stepcloser]

What if a Japanese company started making custom boats? :confused:
Well Dan, one did. Although they may not have been a true "custom" boat, they were very innovative and well made.
The Toyota Epic X22;
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/398epic22x.jpg
The Toyota Epic 22 bowrider;
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/398boat.jpg
The Toyota Epic S22 v-drive;
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/398Toyoboat.bmp
Toyota got into the marine business around 1998 it only lasted till 2001 when they closed up shop.
The boats were designed by Shadow composites of South Lake Tahoe, and manufactured by Maritec industries of Florida.
They used marinized versions of the 4.0 liter DOHC engine used in the Lexus LS & SC400 models.
As a little sidenote....that cool folding wakeboard tower you see on every wake/ski boat was originally designed by Dave Triano at Shadow Composites for the Toyota Epic X22.
It was soon copied in mass numbers by another well known and wholly more popular maufacturer.

[FRENCHIE]

Thanx boss! I doubt it will affect me much. Ready to get outta here.
have a great weekend see ya next weekend!!! :p

[Havasu Cig]

Inside the door of our 04 Chevy 2500 HD "wold class trucks built with pride by the men and women of UAW local 598 and Flint truck assembly, Flint Michigan".
Buy American!! :cool:

[dmontzsta]

Wow, go Nissan glad to see their recent line up change helped.
BTW: Jap cars are more reliable, hands down.

[78Eliminator]

I personally think that Toyota and Honda are the two best automakers in the world
I knew there was something about you that I liked. :D
I can't agree with that statement any more. I am talking about this from a mechanics point of view. They are wonderful to work on, run like a top, and last forever.
I have been scared away from American because I have had too many bad experiences in a row. My next truck, however, is going to be a Ford Diesel truck. I have been convinced that they are back to par.....

[canuck1]

HMMMM
Last time I checked there were 3 countrys in North America
So if its made in any of the 3 would it not still be American?

[sam pioske]

1985 chevy van 461000 mi.
1887 gmc van 280000 mi
1998 chevy van 150000 mi
1997 chevy c1500 110000 mi
1994 caddy 82000 mi
1994 m h chevy ch. 33000 mi
2004 4x4 duro max 6000 mi
bet i have spent less than a jap vech. """1 ''' on all of them
lexus stater 23 hrs labor plus parts ''chilton" ??????????????

[Kilrtoy]

If what Trailer Park said is true and they come up with a real truck with a real towing V8, I will dump my ford so quickly, I will be a the toyota dealer yesterday. They build the best damn cars and trucks, PERIOD.

[dmontzsta]

If what Trailer Park said is true and they come up with a real truck with a real towing V8, I will dump my ford so quickly, I will be a the toyota dealer yesterday. They build the best damn cars and trucks, PERIOD.
I heard the tundra was decent???
I really like the Titan, that ****er has towing power.

[Kilrtoy]

For a boat like your it will work fine, Stick 5 or 6K behind it plus trailer, you will be stuck on the ramp getting towed out.....

[rivercrazy]

I have Zero trouble towing my 25 foot 5,500-6,000 pound boat with my Tundra V8. It regularly embarrasses other domestic trucks at the launch ramp....And after 136K HARD miles, its still going without any issues whatsoever

[Essex502]

The market cap value of the companies don't tell the entire story...the Enterprise Value tells a little more about the business...GM = 270B...Toyota = 177B.
The import cars that are manufactured in the U.S. are great for our economy but where are the profits going? Do they stay in the U.S. or are they shipped back to the country where the headquarters are?
Also, many of the foreign owned companies with plants in the U.S. have brought over their own management teams...At Nissan, I have been told by those who work or worked there that no American born manager of anglo descent makes a major decision - only Japanese managers. I can't personally verify this as I would work there but numerous friends that have did say this. Is this also true about Daimler-Chrysler? Daimler's "merger" with Chrysler that wasn't - who's running the show now? Same for other industries...I used to work for a premium applicance manufacturer here in Los Angeles that was purchased by the third largest appliance manufacturer in the world - a German company...what did they do...close the plant and move the production to North Carolina and under the control of a German management team. German is spoken in the hallways...no American management at any high level - all forced out. This is typical of so many foreign companies that come here to do business...use American labor but manage the firm with their own managers moved over from the mother country. Sometimes they also move key Engineering staff as well. The German appliance manufacturer did this...they brought over the Engineers and Designers on 2 year contracts where the Germans had German benefits - i.e. 4 weeks vacation, free trips back to Germany for periodic visits, etc... The other thing this particular German firm did was close the Los Angeles plant that had been making product for over 50 years. What this accomplished was laying off the entire union represented work force and by moving the production to a non-union plant in N.C. they in effect got rid of the union. I was privy to the plans and this WAS the plan. This crap goes on all the time.
My philosophy:
If two products (foreign and American) are the same quality and value...buy American.
If the American is slightly inferior - buy American.
If the foreign brand is very superior - buy foreign 'cause the bottom line it is my hard earned money.