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4619884
09-20-2004, 09:08 PM
This is the idiot who isn't the sharpest pencil in the box. before you past judgment know the facts before passing judgement and right now you don't all facts. Some of you are purposely attempting to confuse all the readers about the what happened. Let me help straighten some of those facts out for all who want the truth.
I am going to make a statement and answer to some of the things that have been said about me or regarding this event. It is not right for anyone to act as judge or jury without knowing exactly what the circumstances are, therefore I do no believe it to be wize for me to engage a Q & A session on this or any forum. I apologize for this inconvenience.
First off, just remember this was a very traumatic experience for all who were on board. A 21 year old girl was burned and all of us came within seconds from loosing our lives. The two other individuals that were on board were going through the process of buying my boat and had given me a $5k deposit and had started the insurance process, however it was not complete, therefore at the time of the fire there was no insurance coverage. I do make it a practice to carry full coverage insurance on everything I own. My boat went into storage on my property under lock and key in a building made out of steel, I wasn't to concerned about anything happening to it in storage and nothing did for two years. Yes, I should have insured it upon it becoming operational and yes it would have been a good idea to verify with their insurance company that the boat was covered, but I didn't. Everyone on this forum has made mistakes before, most likely big ones that you regret and wish you could take back, but you can't. Why is basic human nature so cruel? Someone makes a mistake, and immediately everyone wants to find blame and make that person feel even worse.
Prior to this event, my boat was not operational for two years due to two motors going bad in the first eight hours of operation in July of 02, a problem that was not mfgÂ’s fault.
However, when this boat (Hull, Tanks and Interior) was finished in November of 01 and rigged in December of 01 it did not become operational until May of 02 at that time is when I discovered that I had a vapor lock problem, preventing me from putting fuel in my boat. I use the term vapor lock which could be incorrect but itÂ’s the term I chose for describing what happen
Because Aftershock not only installed the fuel tanks but also paid WPM Racing to rig my boat, this problem was immediately addressed with Alex. I called Alex at the lake Elsinore Location I told him that I could not put fuel in my boat, that the fuel would just splash back in my face. I told him that because of the extreme angle of the inside fill pipe it was causing a vapor lock and maybe the best solution would be to move the fuel fills to a different location and fill in the old fuel fill holes, I told him I wanted to go boating this weekend. Alex, told me he was really busy and that he couldnÂ’t get to it right away. I said that I bought this boat from you, I should be able to put fuel in it. He reluctantly told me to bring the boat down to the shop the following day, to leave it and to pick it up the next day. I brought the boat down the following day and Alex and I went over what needed to be done. We both agreed that the existing fuel fill holes would be filled in and the new ones would be relocated to an area that would allow for easy fueling. The following day when I arrived the fuel fill holes were filled in but the new ones werenÂ’t. Alex told me he was very busy and was unable to cut in the new holes and actually told me to cut them in myself. I told Alex that I paid for a boat that is supposed to have fuel fills that work and that it was his responsibility to install them. Alex said it would have to be another day because he was simply to busy to do it. When I told him about boating that weekend he said, as a temporary fix I put them on your fuel tanks so you can go boating, I will be busy for the next few weeks so give me a call then and weÂ’ll get those fuel fills installed. It never happen. All I ever was able to do was leave messages.
With regards to WPM Racing, it was Alex (Aftershock) who delivered my boat to WPM with a WPM Trailer that Alex borrowed. It was Alex who supplied WPM with all the rigging parts and it was Alex who paid WPM to rig my boat and it was Alex who picked my boat up. WPM rigged my boat with professionalism and quality. WPM did installed my fuel fills only where Alex had instructed them too. However, if the tanks had been constructed differently, where the holes were cut would have been fine. My boat was not the normal no frills rigging, it was rigged with the best Gaffrig Stainless steel hardware, Gaffrig Monster gauges, Gaffrig offshore shifter, two high performance fuel pumps, Imco fuel selector switch, S/S Sea strainer, EMI offshore battery boxes, remote control motor hatch, WPM Twin Ram Steering, Mercury K-Planes, Gimble housing and Bravo 1 Performance Drive, all parts totaling over $12,000.00 not including Gimble and Drive The rigging was done very clean and better than most Aftershocks are rigged today. It was a friend of mine who told me to have WPM Racing rig my boat and it was that same friend that told me to have all the work done through Aftershock so they would be responsible if anything went wrong. I have all the cancelled checks, receipts, invoices, work orders and pictures that prove who did what. The rigging wasnÂ’t the problem, the fuel tanks were what caused the vapor lock problem because of poor construction. Alex, didnÂ’t put much time into the design of the fuel tanks, thatÂ’s for sure, at least back than.
On Thursday September 16th, I spoke with a guy that stopped by, that owns a 2003 27 Violator Cat, a boat that is only one year newer than mine. His fuel tanks are located in the center sponsons with huge Nascar fuel fills that pour straight down. Why did Aftershock redesign their fuel system? Could it be that there were too many problems with the old one. Did Aftershock contact all the prior customers that had the old fuel tanks and fuel fills? No! Did they have a responsibility to recall all the boats built with that particular fuel system? Yes! Is Aftershock guilty of having extremely poor customer relations? Yes!
The final straw was when a couple came by who bought Aftershocks demo boat, the vary one that I first rode in with Jeff Ferber, (Majority Owner of Aftershock Boats) the vary one that when we went to a gas station, Jeff Ferber knew about the problem because he whipped out a screwdriver and opened the motor hatch, unscrewed the clamp that secures the fill hose on top of the fuel tank and proceeded to fill that tank from inside the motor compartment which after filling one tank we went to Lake Elsinore for a demo ride.
Many of you that came by, I stated that AftershockÂ’s own demo boat had the same vapor lock problem. Well this couple confirmed my suspicions by verifying that they too had a vapor lock problem and asked Aftershock to fix it and was also told they were too busy. They too went for a demo ride and Jeff Ferber once again whipped out a screwdriver to remove the rubber fuel hose to fill the tank. How many other customers have experienced this type of irresponsible behavior. This boat owner did not wait for Aftershock to call him, he paid to have new tanks and new fuel fills installed and this is fact. I currently have his information and he has told me that he would provide to me a written statement that will verify what I have stated. How many other customers that purchased an Aftershock boat or didnÂ’t but went for a demo ride witnessed this unsafe, irresponsible behavior, I would be most grateful to hear from anyone who had a similar experience.
For anyone who is a beginner boater or is not familiar with USCG Regs, and witnesses the owner of a Boat Manufacturing Company filling one of their own boats in manner it has been explained, why would I or anyone else for that matter assume it to be unsafe or wrong to continue filling a boat purchased by the company that basically taught me how to do it.
After having bad luck with two motors, in July of 02 my boat went into storage for almost two years. In May of 04 I started making moves to put a new motor in my boat to sell it. The first thing I did was contact Alex to pick up my motor hatch that had been at the Aftershock Factory for about a year. When I went to pick it up I addressed the fuel fills, I was told that the vapor lock problem had been corrected. I asked if they could send me two of their new fill pipes, they said they would I never received them. At the end of July 04 my boat was operational and up for sale
This was my first NEW boat and I was not aware of all the USCG Codes that a boat Manufacturer must follow. Had I known this problem was illegal, I would have fixed it, I looked at the problem as more of an inconvenience of having to go through a similar process that Jeff Ferber showed me.
Had the holes been cut like they were supposed to, I would still have my boat today, bottom line. In addition to failing to install new fuel fills, Alex has never in the time that I have known him, returned a phone call. I have always had to catch Alex off guard, either showing up un-announced or having someone other than myself call and ask for him. That is wrong in so many ways, to not provide any form of customer service to an existing customer.
Alex would like everyone to think that all I purchased was a bare hull which is not the case. If purchasing a Hull, tanks and Interior with a extreme trailer and upgraded gelcoat graphics and rigged at WPM Racing in Corona, a bare hull than thatÂ’s what it was. Also it is important for all to know that people like Dennis, Paul or any other person who is not Hispanic, did not even work for Alex at the time my boat was built, therefore everyone who has obtained intel from Paul or Dennis is only repeating what Alex has fabricated. Only Alex and his wife worked at the Elsinore location, all his employeeÂ’s donÂ’t even speak English.
From the time I purchased this boat until the time it blew up, I have been deprived of any type of customer service support. Alex has a responsibility to produce USCG safe boats. According to the NMMA a boat manufacturer cannot, I repeat, cannot release a boat into the possession of a customer if it doesnÂ’t meet USCG standards. When Alex filled my fuel fill holes it was his responsibility as a manufacturer to complete the job, he didnÂ’t. Alex had a responsibility to make sure there were fuel fills installed, prior to leaving his factory, he didnÂ’t. That makes Aftershock liable for my boat catching fire, end of story.
(To those of you that have been wondering why I havenÂ’t answered to this forum)
I do not subscribe to this type of entertainment. I had to subscribe and wait for activation, also I live SD and had no access to a computer until I came home on Sunday and Monday I was activated. That is why I havenÂ’t responded. Fare enough!
(To those of you who supported me in the beginning but now are either confused or donÂ’t support me any longer) I hope after reading my statement I will regain your support ei; rivertoysjas etcÂ… I am also mature enough to apologize for calling subscribers names. I hope you can understand that what everyone has been saying that is negative angered me and without being able to respond due to not having access (waiting for activation) can be frustrating. You are all right, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
My bad!
(To those of you who have spoken with Dennis, Paul, Jeff or Alex)
Believe what you want, in the end the truth will come out.
(To those of you who called me an idiot)
Maybe IÂ’m an idiot for learning this unsafe procedure from Jeff Ferber, Majority Owner of Aftershock Boats. And maybe IÂ’m an idiot for not verifying that the new owners insurance was activated. However everyone is human and makes mistakes, this does not make me a bad person, nor have I broken any laws and the boat was never registered due to engine problems during brake in hours, therefore it wasnÂ’t necessary to register my boat if my plan was to store it til further notice. As long as a boat is not registered from the beginning, it is my understanding that the boat remains new, and can be sold as new through a dealer. (New Demo Boat)
(To Elvis, who thinks IÂ’m not the sharpest pencil in the box)
I am a former Military Police Officer, have a degree in business and finance and retired at 40, and yes 4619884 was my former business Capital West Investments and is a nonworking number. I donÂ’t claim to be Mr. Expert Boater or for that matter, mechanically incline, I am only someone who bought a boat not knowing everything. If that makes me a dull pencil then so be it!
(To those of you who want to know why I didnÂ’t have insurance)
First of all it is not required by the Coast Guard or the state of California to have boating insurance. However, it is required by the finance companies to hold full coverage insurance for those of you who decided to finance your boat. I own my boat outright, while in storage I was not required to have insurance. When it became operational the boat was sold immediately and insurance was being obtained by the new owners but at the time of the fire the boat was not covered.
(To those of you who think the rigger is at fault)
WPM did nothing wrong. Aftershock doesnÂ’t even come close to WPMÂ’s rigging.
(To those of you who want to know, who put what where?)
Alex told me, Wednesday September 15th, at his factory location, when I went there to catch him off guard, all he remembers is I told him to fill the holes, that I never mentioned the vapor lock problem. Why would I ask a manufacturer to fill in fuel fill holes without telling them that itÂ’s their fault I canÂ’t fuel my boat up? He denies that he put the fuel fills on top of the fuel tanks as a temporary fix until a new location could be done. Alex, knew I wanted to go boating that weekend and based on their own irresponsible acts, is it a surprise that Alex put the fuel fills on top of the tanks.
I hope this answers most everyoneÂ’s questions and puts to rest who did what.
My protest was not to maliciously hurt Aftershock but it was a wakeup call for them to take responsibility for their actions and for every boat that they sell, they should assume that the buyer knows nothing about boating safety or what to do in the event of an emergency, by educating each and every customer as to the dangers and risks of owning a boat.
In closing, to the individuals that tried their hardest to damage my story by manipulating the facts, itÂ’s ok, now you know the truth.
Aftershock Boats and West Coast Tooling will be served with a Lawsuit in the coming weeks for their role in this tragedy and a California Court will decide who is at fault.
Once again, it was not my intention to insult anyone and it was never my intention to cause so much controversy. Due to recent information I will most likely discontinue my protest against Aftershock until such time that they have been served, at such time I may choose to restart my activity in Corona.
Thank you for listening.

Mandelon
09-20-2004, 09:25 PM
There are other Aftershocks out there with fuel fills that don't work?
I know I have to angle the gas nozzle just right or it can spill out on my boat. Sometimes I have to set the nozzle half way to keep it from going in faster than it can run down the filler neck.
But relocating them to the engine compartment...?

Riverhound
09-20-2004, 09:36 PM
Good Luck! Should you prevail I hope it sends a message to some of the other manufacturers who think about cutting corners.

shadow
09-20-2004, 09:47 PM
Old Ladies at a bingo fest?
At least these old ladies are smart enough to carry insurance,Required or not,paid for or not.
Then to think that potential buyers are gonna get insured to cover your boat?
Not!
Correct me if I'm wrong but your buyers gave you a deposit?Can't register a boat on a deposit.Therefore can't insure it.
Was it thier responsibility if any type of accident occured or the registered /insured owners responsibility.
Oh thats right it wasn't registered(not Aftershocks responsibility)thats right it wasn't insured either(not Aftershocks responsibility)
By the way I've got a friend with an Aftershock same model as your crispy cat and he has no problems filling up.

Southwnd
09-20-2004, 09:57 PM
If this boat was purchased in Corona, then Jurisdiction for a civil suit would be Riverside County. Since they operate a website in which all cases can be accessed by the public, we can all keep watch. Since your comments to various people have been posted on this public domain, and it seems you have been contradictory in these statements...good luck.. it's all admissible. So, let us all wait and watch and see if there is even a filing in this 'case'.
http://www.courts.co.riverside.ca.us/pubacc.htm

MagicMtnDan
09-20-2004, 09:59 PM
By the way I've got a friend with an Aftershock same model as your crispy cat and he has no problems filling up.
Three words:
Aftershock makes boats? :D
Two words:
"Crispy Cat" - that's a funny one! :D
One word:
Insurance - "Coverage by a contract binding a party to indemnify another against specified loss in return for premiums paid." :hammerhea
Do you have any other insurance like insurance on that giant truck of yours? What if you monster truck some poor old lady and turn her into roadkill? You gotta have insurance on that, right?
Do you have insurance on your home? What if a tree falls across the power line and your house catches on fire? You gotta have insurance on that, right?
What if you're out on the lake with people who want to buy your boat and suddenly your boat explodes and the flames engulf your boat? You gotta have insurance on that, right?
I won't even dive into your he said, they said stuff in your post. That's for the courts to decide.

Waldo
09-20-2004, 10:22 PM
I posted this on the thread "Profits vs. Safety" too.
For anyone who is a beginner boater or is not familiar with USCG Regs, and witnesses the owner of a Boat Manufacturing Company filling one of their own boats in manner it has been explained, why would I or anyone else for that matter assume it to be unsafe or wrong to continue filling a boat purchased by the company that basically taught me how to do it.
(To Elvis, who thinks IÂ’m not the sharpest pencil in the box)
I am a former Military Police Officer, have a degree in business and finance and retired at 40, and yes 4619884 was my former business Capital West Investments and is a nonworking number. I donÂ’t claim to be Mr. Expert Boater or for that matter, mechanically incline, I am only someone who bought a boat not knowing everything. If that makes me a dull pencil then so be it!
(To those of you who want to know why I didnÂ’t have insurance)
First of all it is not required by the Coast Guard or the state of California to have boating insurance. However, it is required by the finance companies to hold full coverage insurance for those of you who canÂ’t afford to purchase a boat outright like I did. Remember I retired at 40 and because I own my boat outright, while in storage I was not required to have insurance. When it became operational the boat was sold immediately and insurance was being obtained by the new owners but at the time of the fire the boat was not covered.
At first you sound niave yet you were smart enough to retire at age40??? I feel you should have read the manual and had insurance...I'm sure you do for other things even though they are required (homeowner, car, etc.).
The same principles apply. What if your boat was stolen in storage??? Could you afford to chuck the amount you "paid cash"? Why not do the same now??? BTW - the boat WASN'T SOLD, otherwise you wouldn't be pulling this stuff now. The potential buyer's insurance would be coming after you I'm sure.
Sounds like you are playing the "ignorant card" to me and you got caught with your pants down. If I sound a little agitated, I am. I am a hard working man that provides for my family. I have insurance for everything and never use it. I feel "the system" gets abused by people like you and we, the hard working and ever paying average joe, gets reemed by the rising costs of insurance (caused by - everybody owes me, not my fault, money hungry, daddy didn't love me, dingleberries!).
This has been my opinion, and my opinion only!
BTW - My Carrera was built before Aftershock bought them so I am not bias.

ELVIS
09-20-2004, 10:35 PM
DULL PENCIL, your lucky your not ERASED !!!!!!!!
You told me that the fire was caused by fumes, that were in the engine compartment because YOU spilled fuel while filling up. You don't have to be any kind of expert to know what thats going to do ?
I don't know what story to belive, but come on man INSURANCE!!!!!!!!!!!

Kilrtoy
09-21-2004, 06:54 AM
WOW, that was deep.
keep us updated on this please

racecar.hotshoe
09-21-2004, 07:12 AM
Sorry dude but heres how I see it.Im not a former MPO and I do not have a degree in business, but I do have a master in commonsense witch would tell me not to take a unsafe boat out period.

OGShocker
09-21-2004, 07:14 AM
Sorry dude but heres how I see it.Im not a former MPO and I do not have a degree in business, but I do have a master in commonsense witch would tell me not to take a unsafe boat out period.
I think we went to the same school. :D

Havasu_Dreamin
09-21-2004, 07:21 AM
Sorry dude but heres how I see it.Im not a former MPO and I do not have a degree in business, but I do have a master in commonsense witch would tell me not to take a unsafe boat out period.
Yep. And as far as not needing insurance because you bought it outright, explain to the family that you possibly could have hurt or killed if you were to have hit them or made some other mistake. Remembr, you yourself said you were new to boating which implies you don't know everything, hence rookie mistakes, and mistakes can sometimes take lives. We all make mistakes. Insurance is protection for our, or others, mistakes. Why in the world would someone think it's good to drive around with insurance for a car, that has brakes, and that it is not nedded for a boat that does not have brakes? :hammerhea
Also, am I the only one that thinks this is a glaring example of why something should be done with selling go fast boats, don't really know how fast this Afterhsock would go though, to people with no prior experience?

Keithb87
09-21-2004, 08:03 AM
Ok.. Let me get this straight... You goto the local "Car Dealership" and go for a test drive... :rolleyes: The sales man stops to put gas in the car...
You notice that he does not put it in the gas filler hole, but opens the hood and puts it in the engine compartment... :rolleyes:
ARE YOU THAT STUPID ????? HELLO MC FLY!!!!! GAS DOES NOT GO IN THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT !!!!!
Common sense would have told me (and most others) that putting fuel in the ENCLOSED ENGINE COMPARTMENT WAS WRONG :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
You did not even ask "Alex" or whoever you took the test ride with about the removing of the filler hose... That would of been my first question prior to buying the boat.
"Excuse me Alex, but will I have to go through all that to put fuel in my boat? It seems kind of excessive. Why can't you just put in in the Fuel Fill???"
:confused:
WHATEVER DUDE

BarryMac
09-21-2004, 08:18 AM
I don't care if you pay $5,000.00 or $50,000.00 for a boat, why in the hell wouldn't you carry insurance? That is just not smart. If you retire at age 40 generally that is because you have money to survive until you die, what the heck is another $1,000.00 a year? Chump change is my guess, if you can't afford it get a part time job at 7-11, that oughta cover it. I am sorry about the loss of the BOAT nad sorry that people almost got hurt, it wasn't a good move on Aftershocks part or 4619884 either...
gjb

Dave C
09-21-2004, 08:24 AM
461,
If what you say is EXACTLY true then it sounds like:
1) aftershock should be held culpable to you for breach of an implied warranty and product liability. (bad design of fuel fuel fills and tanks and gross negligence for improper rigging that led to the accident) This is true EVEN if you put the gas in it.
2) you and aftershock would probably SHARE responsiblity for the injuries to your passengers due to your negligence because you operated the boat knowing full well there was a problem created by another party.
3) insurance...... I always carried insurance on my boatS even if its not financed or not running... If you own a home you are crazy not having insurance....
Sorry to hear about your boat. I hope things work out.
If you are going to file a lawsuit, consult a good lawyer ASAP and stop talking about it here!!!!

BoatFloating
09-21-2004, 08:39 AM
This is the idiot who isn't the sharpest pencil in the box. before you past judgment know the facts because right now you all sound like a bunch of old ladies at a bingo fest. Some of you are purposely attempting to confuse all the readers about the facts. Let me help straighten some of those facts out for all who want the truth.
Way to get more people on your side.
I am going to make a statement and answer to some of the things that have been said about me or regarding this event. I will not lower myself by allowing subscribers to interrogate me, therefore I will not answer to any of your questions.
Don't lower yourself to our questions why. You can come on here and make acusations and not answer any questions.
First off, just remember this was a very traumatic experience for all who were on board. People were injured and all of us came within seconds from loosing our lives. The two other individuals that were on board were going through the process of buying my boat and had given me a $5k deposit and had started the insurance process, however it was not complete, therefore at the time of the fire there was no insurance coverage.
So they were buying the boat and gave you a $5k deposit and never rode on it and they were in the process of getting insurance.
On Thursday September 23rd, I spoke with a guy that stopped by, that owns a 2003 27 Violator Cat, a boat that is only one year newer than mine.
Well since today is September 21st I'm sure when you talk to him this Thursday he'll give you all the info.
How many other customers that purchased an Aftershock boat or didnÂ’t but went for a demo ride witnessed this unsafe, irresponsible behavior, I would be most grateful to hear from anyone who had a similar experience.
If this is true why did you do the same thing.
For anyone who is a beginner boater or is not familiar with USCG Regs, and witnesses the owner of a Boat Manufacturing Company filling one of their own boats in manner it has been explained, why would I or anyone else for that matter assume it to be unsafe or wrong to continue filling a boat purchased by the company that basically taught me how to do it.
Like a cop told me one time, ignorance is no excuse for not knowing the rules and the laws.
(To those of you who want to know, who put what where?)
Alex told me, Wednesday September 22nd, at his factory location, when I went there to catch him off guard, all he remembers is I told him to fill the holes, that I never mentioned the vapor lock problem. Why would I ask a manufacturer to fill in fuel fill holes without telling them that itÂ’s their fault I canÂ’t fuel my boat up? He denies that he put the fuel fills on top of the fuel tanks as a temporary fix until a new location could be done. Alex, knew I wanted to go boating that weekend and based on their own irresponsible acts, is it a surprise that Alex put the fuel fills on top of the tanks.[
Well since it September 21st when you catch Alex off guard tomorrow maybe he'll have different answer.
My protest was not to maliciously hurt Aftershock but it was a wakeup call for them to take responsibility for their actions and for every boat that they sell, they should assume that the buyer knows nothing about boating safety or what to do in the event of an emergency, by educating each and every customer as to the dangers and risks of owning a boat.
Sure it is. If you truely beliveve Aftershock is responsible then after you made contact with them and they told you that it wasn't their fault you should handle it in court and not the street. You are trying to ruin Aftershock's business by your street display and I hope you have a strong case against them.
In closing, to the individuals that tried their hardest to damage my story by manipulating the facts, itÂ’s ok, now you know the truth.
So I do have a few questions for you because I now know your side and I've heard Aftershock's side and the truth is in there some place.
1. Did you try and start a Aftershock San Diego dealership? You would buy hulls and rig them in San Diego. And wern't you at a boat show selling boats with Alex. If these are facts then playing the "I didn't know" card is pretty weak.
2. Did you pay WPM for the rig job or did all them money go to Aftershock?
3. Did you start your boat with the bilge full of gas?
4. You said Alex did the repairs and didn't have enough time to put the full fills in the right spot, doesn't it take less time to put new fills in them to repair the holes?
5. Did you do similar tatic with 4WP about a blower????
6. What do you want out of Aftershock money or boat wise? Some have said $150K. $90K for the boat and $20K for each passenger just because they could of been killed or hurt. Is this true? I don't think the boat was bought for $90K or is worth that much.
Insurance is not just to replace the boat it's also there for medical and damages in case someone gets hurt. You might be retired and well off but if someone got hurt or killed you would find you money going really fast.
Aftershock Boats and West Coast Tooling will be served with a Lawsuit in the coming weeks for their role in this tragedy and a California Court will decide who is at fault.
This was the way to handle it in the first place. When the courts decide then we know who to blame until then it's all hearsay....

Big Warlock
09-21-2004, 08:46 AM
But I think that there are still a few issues. Think of it as a prelude to court.
#1 Regardless of what you own outright, you still need to protect your property. Insurance is the most common vehicle for that.
#2 Nothing depreciates faster than a new boat. Why would anyone store a new one? If you have "funds" then you would have fixed it and moved on. How much research did you do on buying a boat?
#3 Was retirement at 40 voluntary? It is a fair question.
#4 You being an MPO doesn't make you smart. Neither does your GED. I am a former XO in the 2nd ACR. Trust me, that wasn't smart either. NAVY, that's smart. Location, location, location!!
#5 We agree on one thing. Get an attorney and get after it! This isn't going to get solved here. Although it has been a great drama, which you initiated by parking in public! Thanks for the entertainment! I think you should read back on many of the comments as the next time you hear them will be in a court of law and you will need to defend those ideas and concerns presented.
Good luck!
What kind of boat are you getting next? Let us know if you need some help with the selection!

Magic34
09-21-2004, 08:55 AM
[QUOTE=4619884]
(To those of you who want to know why I didnÂ’t have insurance)
First of all it is not required by the Coast Guard or the state of California to have boating insurance. However, it is required by the finance companies to hold full coverage insurance for those of you who canÂ’t afford to purchase a boat outright like I did. Remember I retired at 40 and because I own my boat outright, while in storage I was not required to have insurance. When it became operational the boat was sold immediately and insurance was being obtained by the new owners but at the time of the fire the boat was not covered.
[QUOTE]
I have read just about every post from this at the start and I was never planning on making a comment, but this statement really bothers me. I understand your situation and I feel for you to a certain extent, but this comment about those of us finance and are REQUIRED to have insurance because we "can't afford to pay it off" is the DUMBEST effin thing I have ever heard.
I am 25, and I financed only 40% of my boat. A picture of my boat is in my signature under each post I make. It is a 2004 Magic 34 Cat with 575's, you can check the price moneybags and buy one free and clear. The other 60% was cash down, and I carry insurance so I don't lose EVERYTHING I own if something stupid happens at the lake, such as the boat catching fire and injuring an innocent person just passing by. Another scenerio, someone runs into my boat, such as an a-hole at the lake without insurance, and instead of chasing them for a year or 2, my insurance company handles it.
By the way, my boat is also a write off, so paying it off to NOT have insurance would actually cost me money as well as open me to a lot of risk. Not too smart, and I'm not an Investment guy either, but I do have a college education in business as well.
You probably have somewhat of a case and could win, especially since you live in CA (sorry to everyone in Cali, but stranger things have happened). But to come on here and make assumptions about how people handle their financials and risk management is over ridiculous in my book.
Good luck with you and Aftershock, neither of you deserve this, but I would put an ounce of thought into a comment before you bark it off.

PHX ATC
09-21-2004, 09:58 AM
I'm cancelling my insurance right now since I don't really need it anymore. :D
I figure I'd spend my time with a banner and my boat outside of Nordic's showroom for a couple of weeks to make up for the money I lost. :D
I wonder when the end result of this fiasco will be done?

robt
09-21-2004, 11:45 AM
no insurance i just bought my first boat it is no way as big or nice as what anyone on here has or what you had i'm 23 and i paid cash for it just like you did but the next thing i did when i got home was called my insurance company and put insurance on it (pretty dumb of me) i to had a gas leak problem on are first trip out i stopped to fill it up and i notice i smell alot of gas so i open the hatch and there was a pin hole in the line by the clamp so i pulled it loose cut of a small piece of the hose and put it back
my point is you put the gas in the boat you spilled the gas you did not clean up the gas you turned the key you blew the boat up
another thing is in your post you say the boat was sold immediately when it became useable so you did not get insurance but if it is sold it no longer belongs to you so why are you the one doing all this i would think that the owners would be the ones going to court
well good luck in court and please DO NOT USE YOUR MONEY TO BUY A NEW BOAT YOU DO NOT HAVE THE COMMEN SENSE NOR THE RESPECT FOR HUMAN LIFE THAT SHOULD BE EXPECTED OF ANY BOATER
this guy is a perfect example of why everyone needs to take a boaters safty course
and as someones sig line reads:
STUPID PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BREED
(I pray this man never had children)
Rob

Seadog
09-21-2004, 12:10 PM
Forrest Gump was in the military. He also made a fortune. He had more sense.

OGShocker
09-21-2004, 12:33 PM
Forrest Gump was in the military. He also made a fortune. He had more sense.
_______ is what _______ does! :sqeyes:

BoatFloating
09-21-2004, 12:44 PM
_______ is what _______ does! :sqeyes:
BINGO....... :hammer2:

phebus
09-21-2004, 01:07 PM
4619884, theese are the Hot Boat FORUMS . A forum is a place for discussion. If you are only here to make a statement, please just go away . If you choose to enter into a discussion, I would appreciate it if you would answer the questions Boatfloating has asked of you. The best way to stop rumors and innuendo is with FACTS .

topless
09-21-2004, 01:23 PM
The dates he stated he talked to people is what makes me laugh. Reminds me of back to the future. :confused:

Pie Man
09-21-2004, 01:45 PM
Newbie here,
Had to chime in on this one.
No Insurance, this one makes me scratch my head. We have a entry level boat only worth about 7G and have insurance. Doesnt matter if you think your own property is worth replacing, its the other people that ride with you or are at the lake/river that you would think you would want to protect or be protected from. Your very lucky that nobody was injured, you would not be retired anymore.
As far as the warranty issues are concerned,
The common sence way of doing would have been to fix it yourself and then take them to small claims court if they did not reimburse you.
2 years you say of this problem, sounds like procrastination to me, and running it with this problem is neglagence.

PlyaPlya22
09-21-2004, 02:14 PM
Time for some popcorn :eat:

TRIMM MANN
09-21-2004, 02:37 PM
BINGO....... :hammer2:
Rocky,
This is awesome :D
It has been keeping me entertained for a long time now :cry:

Debbolas
09-21-2004, 06:06 PM
The dates he stated he talked to people is what makes me laugh. Reminds me of back to the future. :confused:
LOL :rolleyes: Your right!!!

Windy
09-21-2004, 06:45 PM
I bet he is not the only one here who has driven a boat or a car without insurance for one reason or another.
I hope everything works out,
MissHBjet

Lightning
09-21-2004, 06:56 PM
The underlying thing in this whole deal is the insurance. If you were insured, you would have been indemnified. Indemnity: Insurance should place the insured in rought the same financial position as he or she was in prior to the occurence of the loss. This of how great this would have been, your boat that saw the water 3 times in the 3 years you owned it would have been out of your hands and you would have had a check
After you were "made whole" it would have been up to the insurance company to go after the manufacturer. There is usually a subrogation provision in a policy; the insurer may go after the party that caused the loss to the extent of the insurer's payment of the loss.
I'm sorry to hear that you almost had a much more tragic situation take place, you were lucky no one died. Hopefully the people that were on your boat aren't sueing you for injuries that they received. Unfortunately you choose to self insure the boat; now you have to go after whoever you can so that you are properly indemnified for you loss.
Homes = insured
Vehicles = insured
Life = usually insured (mortgage, kids, wife, etc...)
Income = usually insured (disability insurance)
Heath = usually insured
.
.
.
.
Boats = should be insured (potential for loss, injury, negligence of owner, etc...)

Danhercules
09-21-2004, 08:21 PM
The underlying thing in this whole deal is the insurance. If you were insured, you would have been indemnified. Indemnity: Insurance should place the insured in rought the same financial position as he or she was in prior to the occurence of the loss. This of how great this would have been, your boat that saw the water 3 times in the 3 years you owned it would have been out of your hands and you would have had a check
After you were "made whole" it would have been up to the insurance company to go after the manufacturer. There is usually a subrogation provision in a policy; the insurer may go after the party that caused the loss to the extent of the insurer's payment of the loss.
I'm sorry to hear that you almost had a much more tragic situation take place, you were lucky no one died. Hopefully the people that were on your boat aren't sueing you for injuries that they received. Unfortunately you choose to self insure the boat; now you have to go after whoever you can so that you are properly indemnified for you loss.
Homes = insured
Vehicles = insured
Life = usually insured (mortgage, kids, wife, etc...)
Income = usually insured (disability insurance)
Heath = usually insured
.
.
.
.
Boats = should be insured (potential for loss, injury, negligence of owner, etc...)
I dont agree with this. I am starting to think, even if this guy had ins, the Ins Co may not pay. With the tanks being tampard with, and not original and not CG approved, who knows if Ins would pay. I am guessing they would go after whoever put the fill inside the bilge. The real question, is who did it, and why?

schiada96
09-21-2004, 08:41 PM
I bet he is not the only one here who has driven a boat or a car without insurance for one reason or another.
I hope everything works out,
MissHBjet
I agree, I have insurance. But I know that some boats cannot be insured. And how many have lied about their boat to an insurance company.

schiada96
09-21-2004, 08:44 PM
I dont agree with this. I am starting to think, even if this guy had ins, the Ins Co may not pay. With the tanks being tampard with, and not original and not CG approved, who knows if Ins would pay. I am guessing they would go after whoever put the fill inside the bilge. The real question, is who did it, and why?
Thats right and the bottom line. Not everyone is a perfect boater,and not everyone knows everything. Look at chevy trucks and ford pinto gas tank problems.

schiada96
09-21-2004, 08:50 PM
The underlying thing in this whole deal is the insurance. If you were insured, you would have been indemnified. Indemnity: Insurance should place the insured in rought the same financial position as he or she was in prior to the occurence of the loss. This of how great this would have been, your boat that saw the water 3 times in the 3 years you owned it would have been out of your hands and you would have had a check
After you were "made whole" it would have been up to the insurance company to go after the manufacturer. There is usually a subrogation provision in a policy; the insurer may go after the party that caused the loss to the extent of the insurer's payment of the loss.
I'm sorry to hear that you almost had a much more tragic situation take place, you were lucky no one died. Hopefully the people that were on your boat aren't sueing you for injuries that they received. Unfortunately you choose to self insure the boat; now you have to go after whoever you can so that you are properly indemnified for you loss.
Homes = insured
Vehicles = insured
Life = usually insured (mortgage, kids, wife, etc...)
Income = usually insured (disability insurance)
Heath = usually insured
.
.
.
.
Boats = should be insured (potential for loss, injury, negligence of owner, etc...)
I don't agree with the made whole thing. I bought my wife a new mazda mp5 car you know the zoom zoom thing. Anyway the car was being driven buy a friend she was rearended and knocked into another car to the tune of 12000 damage close but not totaled. So the insurance pays for the repair right. So am I in the same financial position as before the wreck hell no. In the era of carfax anyone can see that the car was in a serious wreck and the value of the vehicle is way less

Racer277
09-21-2004, 09:01 PM
Thinking this one over today, you guys are prolly right. The insurance would have refused after the fire report, for "not uscg approved" fills. Then we would be right where we are now. :rolleyes:
Once they declined the coverage, they would also refuse to pursue.
Here we are.

stoker
09-21-2004, 09:03 PM
If this guy has the kind of scratch he claims to have he might be self insured. I was working on a post and beam building last year. The post had major dryrot. When one of my guys was removing stucco from one of the columns the building dropped 1/4". It sounded like a sonic boom! He emediatly notified me in turn I notified the owner who happened to be "The Chuch Of The Latter Day Saints". I told them at the very least they need to spend $375.00 to shore up the building until we can have an engineer come out and design a solution to the problem. It took them 3 weeks to approve the $375.00, at which time they put the lives of at least 30 people in jeopardy. I later found out that they were self insured and were not to conerned about the ramifications of their failing building. They finally ponied up and paid for the final repairs about 4 months later. It really makes you wonder :supp:

BoatFloating
09-21-2004, 09:11 PM
Thinking this one over today, you guys are prolly right. The insurance would have refused after the fire report, for "not uscg approved" fills. Then we would be right where we are now. :rolleyes:
Once they declined the coverage, they would also refuse to pursue.
Here we are.
Not true. The insurance would cover this and then after investgation would go after the party that made illeagal mods if they felt it caused the fire.
The thing everyone is missing is the gas was spilled into bilge and wasn't cleaned up and the boat started. If the fills were on the outside and the gas leaked into the bilge you would have the same results.

Racer277
09-21-2004, 09:15 PM
Not true. The insurance would cover this and then after investgation would go after the party that made illeagal mods if they felt it caused the fire.
Wow your experiences with insurance companies must be way better than mine. In mine, they would deny this in a hot second. Then I would spend my time either sueing them or the person responsible.
What makes you think they would cover something clearly delineated in their contract, and then spend their time trying to recover?
Again, I must be missing something here.

schiada96
09-21-2004, 09:22 PM
Wow your experiences with insurance companies must be way better than mine. In mine, they would deny this in a hot second. Then I would spend my time either sueing them or the person responsible.
What makes you think they would cover something clearly delineated in their contract, and then spend their time trying to recover?
Again, I must be missing something here.
Got to agree. If they can find anyway to get out of money leaving they will do it. A lesson to all ***boaters out there be truthfull with your insurance agent.

BoatFloating
09-21-2004, 09:26 PM
Wow your experiences with insurance companies must be way better than mine. In mine, they would deny this in a hot second. Then I would spend my time either sueing them or the person responsible.
What makes you think they would cover something clearly delineated in their contract, and then spend their time trying to recover?
Again, I must be missing something here.
So tell me why insurance would denied you. Just because of the modifcations. So your saying if you put a gas can in your garage and it goes boom your insurance won't cover your losses. Insurance covers stupid moves all the time. That's why our rates are so high. I've read my contract and no were on there does it say not following USCG would void you policy. regs. So if you have a accident and they find you didn't have a USCG required noise maker of some sorts they wouldn't cover you easier because you broke the CG regs????

Scream
09-21-2004, 09:29 PM
4619884
Dude, you cannot be serious. I don't want to call bullshit, but with all the info you shared here you are sounding like you're just as culpable for the "tragedy" as Aftershock is, if your side of the story were the only one used in determining guilt/blame/responsibility...
Take this thing to court, make your case and get on with your life. If you win, great for you, but if you loose, then what?
Not registering? I still don't get this one. Lapse in insurance? I've had some problems with insurance in the past and can understand how things can go wrong, but I just don't understand... I don't understand...Leaving the boat in storage new out of the box for two years...
This whole thing is kinda fishy...Way too many weird deals happening to make sense of it...
Scream

Racer277
09-21-2004, 09:33 PM
Fair question. You're prompting me to look at my policy. I do wonder what they would use, I am just sure they would use something-again from past experience. I usually have to drag coverage out of them. Maybe it's just the ones I work with. I'll take a look and get back to you. Maybe an agent on here could tell us better?

racecar.hotshoe
09-21-2004, 09:35 PM
4619884
Dude, you cannot be serious. I don't want to call bullshit, but with all the info you shared here you are sounding like you're just as culpable for the "tragedy" as Aftershock is, if your side of the story were the only one used in determining guilt/blame/responsibility...
Take this thing to court, make your case and get on with your life. If you win, great for you, but if you loose, then what?
Not registering? I still don't get this one. Lapse in insurance? I've had some problems with insurance in the past and can understand how things can go wrong, but I just don't understand... I don't understand...Leaving the boat in storage new out of the box for two years...
This whole thing is kinda fishy...Way too many weird deals happening to make sense of it...
ScreamGET THE MAN A PRIZE.THATS WHAT I SAYING. :hammer2:

schiada96
09-21-2004, 09:41 PM
So tell me why insurance would denied you. Just because of the modifcations. So your saying if you put a gas can in your garage and it goes boom your insurance won't cover your losses. Insurance covers stupid moves all the time. That's why our rates are so high. I've read my contract and no were on there does it say not following USCG would void you policy. regs. So if you have a accident and they find you didn't have a USCG required noise maker of some sorts they wouldn't cover you easier because you broke the CG regs????
So you take you new boat add a blower to it. Then you find that the breathers in the tanks are not big enough to allow enough air in the tanks to feed the new found horsepower. In you infinate wisdom you ream the holes out. Now the tanks overflow a bit and gas goes down the side of the boat and into the breather. Now the bilge blower comes on but dosent clear all of the gas. But that blower motor needed a little more starter so you used a fancy gear reduction on not uscg approved . boom fire will the insurance company still cover your mistakes? No way. I feel this guy is the same
how do you say it boat

C-2
09-21-2004, 09:48 PM
Only my observation, not saying right or wrong.
But I would be more worried about the people who were injured. No insurance, admitted negligence on this thread = bad news for Aftershock, WPM, anybody else who has ever touched the boat, and primarily the owner.

MagicMtnDan
09-21-2004, 10:01 PM
Has he posted anything since his original "story?" :confused:

Seadog
09-22-2004, 05:00 AM
No sane person would not have insurance. Whether or not the insurance company would cover the situation depends on the coverage, the company and the estimator.
My impression is that the guy is an ignorant AH that goes out of his way to make people take care of him. He would be the first to cut in line and expect special treatment to boot.
If he had a case, he should just let the lawyers handle it. He is resorting to blackmail in order to force a settlement. All it would take is a copy of a work order describing what was to be done. The fact that Aftershock is not even trying to work with him is indicative of how strong they feel their case is.

BoatFloating
09-22-2004, 06:38 AM
So you take you new boat add a blower to it. Then you find that the breathers in the tanks are not big enough to allow enough air in the tanks to feed the new found horsepower. In you infinate wisdom you ream the holes out. Now the tanks overflow a bit and gas goes down the side of the boat and into the breather. Now the bilge blower comes on but dosent clear all of the gas. But that blower motor needed a little more starter so you used a fancy gear reduction on not uscg approved . boom fire will the insurance company still cover your mistakes? No way. I feel this guy is the same
how do you say it boat
And how do you know they won't???? Read your policy it's not that cut and dry. Now I'm not saying at a later date after the insurance company does a investgation they go after responsible party if they can prove it. Alot or insurance companies pay it and forget it to avoid more expense thru lawyers and court costs. Say you backfire out the carb and you don't have a USCG approved flame arrestor and I can tell you there is 1 out 50 boats that don't, do they cover you then???

BoatFloating
09-22-2004, 06:46 AM
Fair question. You're prompting me to look at my policy. I do wonder what they would use, I am just sure they would use something-again from past experience. I usually have to drag coverage out of them. Maybe it's just the ones I work with. I'll take a look and get back to you. Maybe an agent on here could tell us better?
Don't get me wrong, the insurance companies are looking for a way out of the deal no doubt and they all do it and they all suck. In your policy there has to be specfic verbage for them to use not to cover you. Now in mine I read front to back a couple times I don't see anything about CG approval stuff. Now if you stick a blower motor in and you don't tell them then you have problems. When I've used insurance in the past I've been really lucky and it's been smooth.

robt
09-22-2004, 08:39 AM
truly i dont think it matters who put what where he ran the boat with relocated fills and never had a problem (his story not mine)
he spilt gas in bilge(his story not mine)
he didnt wipe up the gas he spilt (again his story not mine)
he started the boat that was sold and he no longer owned which is why he did not have insurance (his story not mine)
if i was him i would be praying no one forwards this thread to the boat builder since he has admitted that he spilt the gas so at the very least he is somewhat at fault
rob

EmpirE231
09-22-2004, 09:07 AM
Insurance does cover "stupidity". seen it many times, when you pay your premium, you are tranfering risk form yourself to the company (the risk being, anything that goes wrong w/ the insured property wether it be a liability claim or comp/collision)

badrat
09-22-2004, 10:12 AM
My insurance will not cover my boat because when I called to get it they took all the infromation on the boat, the agent called back within 5 min, and told me that she had contacted the underwriter and pulled up the manufacters web site , {Pantera} They only make boats listed as RACING boats, so NO coverage,
after reading this whole thread, I am certainly going to sell my boat, and buy one that CAN be insured, it is just too risky not to have coverage,
I feel sorry for this guy, he is well educated, retired,[ I had to work till I was 60 to retire,] but really lacking in common sense and responability, IMO
good luck with your problem man, I sure wouldn't want to be in your shoes, ERR<<<< Boat,
BILL :jawdrop:

Mullet
09-22-2004, 12:08 PM
The final straw was when a couple came by who bought Aftershocks demo boat, the vary one that I first rode in with Jeff Ferber, (Majority Owner of Aftershock Boats) the vary one that when we went to a gas station, Jeff Ferber knew about the problem because he whipped out a screwdriver and opened the motor hatch, unscrewed the clamp that secures the fill hose on top of the fuel tank and proceeded to fill that tank from inside the motor compartment which after filling one tank we went to Lake Elsinore for a demo ride.
I am a former Military Police Officer, have a degree in business and finance and retired at 40, and yes 4619884 was my former business Capital West Investments and is a nonworking number.
Shit! I can spell "very", so I should be able to retire by 36 or so.