lightning boats?

[johnny8052]

My wife and I are in the market for our first boat. I really like the 21 ultra stealth, but it is a little out of our price range. I found out that lightning branched off from ultra about 3 years ago. I really like their 21 xs with the 496 and is in our price range any info on this company would be a great help. Our other dillema is that we could afford a 24' cheetah for about the same price. Any advice?

[cxr133]

doa search here...
i asked the same question almost a year ago and the results were not posiive.
i have a friend that owns one and its on ok boat.
but somewhere there is a recent post from John west of Ultra that he is coming out with a line of affordable Ultra boats (21ft semi-custom) called the classic line. i think you might want to wait for one of these
IMO

[USCFAN]

This should be good. You have just created a monster. :argue:

[MOBrien]

My wife and I are in the market for our first boat. I really like the 21 ultra stealth, but it is a little out of our price range. I found out that lightning branched off from ultra about 3 years ago. I really like their 21 xs with the 496 and is in our price range any info on this company would be a great help. Our other dillema is that we could afford a 24' cheetah for about the same price. Any advice?
tell you what.....the Cheetah in my sig is for sale. Very clean, killer 1500 watt thumpin stereo, brand new gel on bottom done last month, trip axle trailer with chrome fenders & diamond plate steps, brand new bunks and fender guards last month too, 6 new tires on trailer mid-last season, walk through open bow, bimini, optimas totally turn key only 220 hrs. It was our first boat two years ago and it's been nothing but great to us. Just time to move on. Regularly serviced by Boatmasters in Dublin, CA 3 times in last 115 hrs. PM me if your interested. It's purple & burnt orange on all white, runs flawlessly, runs 60-62, takes mid-afternoon chop well, and turns on a dime.
-MOB

[voodoomedman]

My wife and I are in the market for our first boat. I really like the 21 ultra stealth, but it is a little out of our price range. I found out that lightning branched off from ultra about 3 years ago. I really like their 21 xs with the 496 and is in our price range any info on this company would be a great help. Our other dillema is that we could afford a 24' cheetah for about the same price. Any advice?
There is a reason Ultra no longer has anything to do with them. PM Ultra28 and tell him what your looking for. As mentioned he is looking to come out with a new line of boats with the same quality just not all the bling bling for less money. He also works well with ***boaters so maybe getting a deal on something might put you into your price range. Also do a search. I'm sure there is the history posted somewhere on here about those guys.

[College Fund]

I am new to this site, but we purchased a Lightning 23' xs last year and we are very happy. They treated us great. First time on the water we got hit at the dock by some drunk guy. Lighting fixed the boat free of charge while doing the 20 hour service, it don't get any better than that.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

My wife and I are in the market for our first boat. <snip> Any advice?
Un-biased, non-cheerleading things to think about:
Break
Out
Another
Thousand :p
In all seriousness, have you been boating before? I ask only because this is your first boat. Do you know that you will enjoy it? Will your family enjoy it? Nothing worse than dropping some serious coin on a boat and you or your family don't enjoy boating.
Ask yourself these questions:
1. Where do you plan to do most of your boating?
Topock up to Needles and Laughlin? May want to consider a jet boat due to the river being shallower North of Needles unless you know the river like the back of your hand. Topock down to Havasu springs? Can pretty much run anything there. The Parker strip? Again you need to the river well to avoid some of the shallow spots. Big River down to Blythe? Almost exclusively jets.
2. What do you plan to do when boating?
You going to want to water-ski? tube? wakeboard? Find a cove and just chill out?
3. How many peeps will you have with you usually? Just you and your wife or will the in-laws always be with you? If you're only to take 4-5 peeps total, a closed bow may work, more than that on a regular basis you'll probably want an open bow?
4. What are you looking for in terms of quality? Do you care that everything is thru-0bloted? Do you care if the hull has some type of coring to it? Do you want a kickass stereo system?
You can ask all of the questions you want and there are plenty of us on here that will answer them.
The thing to remember is that there a plenty of people on here that think their boat is the absolute best boat money can buy, that's called cheerleading, especially when they are way off base. there are reason that two similarly sized and equipped boats may be as much as $15k apart in price, and it aint all profit. You get what you pay for. The boat industry is like any other industry, there is a definite tier as to who is at the top and who is at the bottom. not everyone will agree on who is where either. Pick out which boats you like, based on the lines, and the functionality of it's amenities and how they will work for YOU.
Go to each and every builder you are interested in and take a tour of the factory. If they won't show you how they make the boat, leave. See how the boats are actually built. How do they lay the glass up? Do they use multiple layers of the same type of glass, such as only random directional glass, or do they use multiple layers of different types of glass, bi-directional, tri-directional, quadaxial? Is all of the hardware thru-bloted or do they just screw it into the fiberglass? Does the boat have full-length stringers or not? Are the screws on the underside of the ski locker capped off so you don't scrape your hand or your skis or wakeboard?
Ultimately, you're the one that will have to make the payments and be happy with your boat so you need to get the boat that fits your needs the best, and yes, that may include buying used at first.

[College Fund]

If it will float and get you to the sandbar, buy it!

[dicudmore]

If it will float and get you to the sandbar, buy it!
thats really what its all about :cool:

[dicudmore]

My wife and I are in the market for our first boat. I really like the 21 ultra stealth, but it is a little out of our price range. I found out that lightning branched off from ultra about 3 years ago. I really like their 21 xs with the 496 and is in our price range any info on this company would be a great help. Our other dillema is that we could afford a 24' cheetah for about the same price. Any advice?
I would not buy a cheese-burger from the people at lightning boats, much less a boat. More details available on request :wink:
As stated above, Ultra is now taking orders for a less-bling line of boats that will be considerably cheaper than the Stealth line in terms of price...Still built right, just not many options or choices...You pick the colors and the power package basically :wink:
Ultra is a great company to do business with, they treat all their customers like family.
Prior to my current Ultra I had an 04 Cheetah. I personally have nothing but good things to say about my experience with them during the build process and of the boat itself.

[College Fund]

Opinions are like a$$ holes everyone has one. Buy whatever you can afford and upgrade later. :cool:

[dicudmore]

I am new to this site, but we purchased a Lightning 23' xs last year and we are very happy. They treated us great. First time on the water we got hit at the dock by some drunk guy. Lighting fixed the boat free of charge while doing the 20 hour service, it don't get any better than that.
Hey College Fund in my earlier post I neglected the important part of saying welcome to Hot-Boat :cool:
Stick around and enjoy the place, lot of good people here :D
Glad to hear they took care of you on the mishap too

[Supultlbich]

As a happy Lavey owner I will say one thing that I know to be true. You wont find many, if any unhappy Ultra owners here. You will get what you pay for, and they stand behind their products.

[College Fund]

dicudmore, thanks for the welcome.

[College Fund]

I guess you have to ask yourself the following questions before you can make a valid opionion. Have you every owned a lightning boat? Have you ever bought a lightning boat from the lightning dealer to which you can state how you were treated? I have only had my new Lighning 23'xs for 1 year and my opinion may change, but so far we love the boat. You really need to buy whatever you can afford, new or used. I don't ever remeber going to the lake and having a bad time, including the time my boat broke and I had to work on it the whole first day. If you have kids as I do they will all enjoy the lake.

[College Fund]

ps. The boat that broke was my old one.

[socalmofo]

I am in the same boat as you, Ultra was out of my price range.I have a lightning 24' on order. Should be done next week. Boat is built as good as any ultra I have seen. Gelcaot is AWESOME also!
Dicudmore,
Let's hear your reason on why Lightning is SOO bad? Is it because you are now an Ultra Snob? Ultra makes good boats, no question. He dropped the lightning line because people were buying more lightnings than Ultra's (Because they were the same boat for cheaper)
we originally started the Lightning line off the same way, but I allowed people to upgrade them and customize them and it became just as much work as an Ultra, but cut into Ultra sales and profit.
I could be wrong but i believe the 23xs and the 247 are molds that are owned by Jerry Van Beek and Ultra failed to pay royalties which is why they no longer make them.
This debate is like the Weekend Warrior vs. Carson Fun runner debate in the desert. All the guys with the more expensive brand think that the less expensive brand is a P.O.S. Not true!
Buy it - You will be happy.
Ultra's are incredibly overpriced. 60k for a 24' with a 6.2. That's called times have been good. Ultra used to be the best kept secret but have become very cocky.
To make it clear, I don't hate Ultra's - I may own one some day. I'm just tired of certain people that have probably NEVER driven or owned a lightning always say negative things because they heard something negative at one point and are influenced by what others say. I have yet to hear nagative response from a lightning OWNER!

[jbtrailerjim]

I could be wrong but i believe the 23xs and the 247 are molds that are owned by Jerry Van Beek and Ultra failed to pay royalties which is why they no longer make them.
Yes. you are wrong. A little history on those molds. Those molds were originally owned by DCB. John West (Ultra) purchased the hulls from DCB. In 2004 John West sold the molds to Lightning.

[dicudmore]

Yes. you are wrong. A little history on those molds. Those molds were originally owned by DCB. John West (Ultra) purchased the hulls from DCB. In 2004 John West sold the molds to Lightning.
thanks Jim, beat me to it...
I don't know if DCB had it first...but it was the DCB 24' Extreme prior to John selling them as the Ultra 247 before he finished the mold on the 24 Stealth.

[College Fund]

Bottom line is they all float and will get you to the sandbar for some fun! :rollside:

[CBadDad]

Havasu Dreamin, thanks for that check list and the tidbits of advice. Good info there.
I too am looking for my first boat. That thing about the best boat is your friends boat is BS! I'm sick and tired of waiting around for someone else.
However, I find myself in the same situation as Johnny. Ultra makes a nice product. The guys at the shop(s) have always been cool, informative and helpful. I even like their show. Having said all of that, they have become so popular that they are extremely pricey. Basic laws of supply and demand I guess.
I'll have to check out Lightning.
I'm surprised at all of the good things I've read on here about Cheatah. All of my buddies have told me to stay away from them. Go figure.
Thanks again. I'll keep reading...

[AleAlchemist]

Yes. you are wrong. A little history on those molds. Those molds were originally owned by DCB. John West (Ultra) purchased the hulls from DCB. In 2004 John West sold the molds to Lightning.
Well I dont know where the "24" came from but I know as a fact that the 23 Xtrm is the original Eliminator 23, it was built by Brent Leach when they still had the ensinada glass shop.

[wright27]

Why buy new? You can open the boattrader on any given day and find a shit load of 22,23,24,26,28 ect foot used boats just a few years older than what you are looking for. I have bought two brand new boats in my lifetime and lost money on both. Save yourself 10-20K. Unless you are just one of the fortunate people who has so much money it makes no difference.

[jbtrailerjim]

Well I dont know where the "24" came from but I know as a fact that the 23 Xtrm is the original Eliminator 23, it was built by Brent Leach when they still had the ensinada glass shop.
If I'm not mistaken Brent built and sold those boats under a different name for a short time back in the mid 90's? The 24 Extreme I believe was built by DCB but I think Dave built it based off of the 23 Extreme.

[dicudmore]

I am in the same boat as you, Ultra was out of my price range.I have a lightning 24' on order. Should be done next week. Boat is built as good as any ultra I have seen. Gelcaot is AWESOME also!
Dicudmore,
Let's hear your reason on why Lightning is SOO bad? Is it because you are now an Ultra Snob? Ultra makes good boats, no question. He dropped the lightning line because people were buying more lightnings than Ultra's (Because they were the same boat for cheaper)
I could be wrong but i believe the 23xs and the 247 are molds that are owned by Jerry Van Beek and Ultra failed to pay royalties which is why they no longer make them.
This debate is like the Weekend Warrior vs. Carson Fun runner debate in the desert. All the guys with the more expensive brand think that the less expensive brand is a P.O.S. Not true!
Buy it - You will be happy.
Ultra's are incredibly overpriced. 60k for a 24' with a 6.2. That's called times have been good. Ultra used to be the best kept secret but have become very cocky.
To make it clear, I don't hate Ultra's - I may own one some day. I'm just tired of certain people that have probably NEVER driven or owned a lightning always say negative things because they heard something negative at one point and are influenced by what others say. I have yet to hear nagative response from a lightning OWNER!
oh where to begin...
Me an Ultra snob? I like to think not but could certainly be wrong...
Socalmofo you have been on this board long enough that you probably know my current Ultra is not exactly my first boat. I had a CHEETAH before this, and a long list of boats before that. I consider myself fortunate enough to have friends on and off this board that own damn near every make and model boat built on the west coast, and have been lucky enough to ride in and drive nearly all of them. They all have their differences, pluses and minuses, boils down to personal choice/preference. Plus, which company you're comfortable doing business with. After a couple seasons of running my Cheetah 29' V, decided I wanted a cat. As you're likely aware, Cheetah does not have a Cat in their line-up or very likely I would have gone back there and at least gave them a shot at my business again. Started looking at who had what in the Cat category...met with Keith at Conquest (GREAT GUY) looked at their Boss Cat and their Deck Boat (drove the deck, VERY NICE RIDING BOAT) Looked at and drove the Domn8er cat, wasn't for me, mainly based on the vibe from the owner as opposed to anything actually wrong with the boat itself. Wound up getting demo ride offers from 2 board members with Ultra 27' Shadows (Shipping Guy and Shadow...thanks, you two cost me a LOT of $$$) obviously that was the direction we chose to go. I could tell you my stories of how I've been treated as an ULTRA customer but would probably take an hour to read...Will be glad to share them over a Dr Pepper when you pull up next to me in the channel and introduce yourself though.
You are correct, Lightning does have some very nice gel-coats out there. Aren't they shot by one of the Casillas'?? A family FULL of talented gel-coaters. Part of my decision to go with Ultra on my newest boat was the fact that Martin Casillas (owner of Orion custom boats if you weren't aware) does the gel for Ultra.
By no means did I say anywhere that Lightning builds a bad boat, an unsafe boat, an ugly boat...NONE of that...I CHOOSE not to do business with anybody named Van Beek for personal reasons based on their past dealings in the boat business...Also a LONG story. (Search Jerry Van Beek on the forums and you may find part of what I'm referring to) The reason I recommend other board members also choose not to do business there is boating is supposed to be a fun, family event. The last thing anybody wants is to feel like they are getting a shady deal from a shady guy, lied to etc etc etc. That would just drive more families away from this great activity. There are several people here on these boards that got bad vibes from those folks (ask Kilrtoy what he thinks just as a reference)
Your statement of "boat is built as good as any Ultra I've seen" is where we differ. There are DEFINITELY differences in how the boat is built. I can not comment on Lightning's lay-up as I don't know for sure who is laying them up and with what materials etc. Certainly if you have the 2 boats side by side and really start to nit-pick them you will find the differences. Whether it be in the engine compartment rigging, under-dash wiring, rub-rail installation etc, trust me you WILL find it. Does this make it a "bad boat?" Or unsafe? HELL NO. Would I feel safe putting myself or my family on one? Absolutely...Is it built to the standards of some of the other west coast builders? NO... It is not built like (in no particular order) a Hallett, Essex, Howard, Lavey, Ultra, DCB etc.
For the record they are by no means the only company I would NEVER buy a boat from...you can add Genesis, Commander, Caliber1, B&H, I may be forgetting somebody here but you get the idea. Heck, some of the above mentioned I would not take a boat from them if it was FREE.
You know Lightning in San Fernando used to be a dealer for Ultra. In fact I believe they used to call themselves Ultra of San Fernando. Did they share any of the details of why they are not anymore? I do not know the entire story myself.
You're right, I've never owned a Lightning boat, but do feel that I have a qualified opinion. We all know what opinions are worth though...

[dicudmore]

Bottom line is they all float and will get you to the sandbar for some fun! :rollside:
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT :D

[dicudmore]

Well I dont know where the "24" came from but I know as a fact that the 23 Xtrm is the original Eliminator 23, it was built by Brent Leach when they still had the ensinada glass shop.
hey Ale haven't seen you on here in a LONG time. Just wanted to say hope you're doing well :cool:

[socalmofo]

Dicudmore,
Thanks for the response. I thought you came off as an un educated lightning hater.I feel like Jason Van Beek is a good person to deal with. I have heard too many bad things about Jerry however never had any real dealings with him. I like to give everyone a fair chance. We'll see how it goes.
See ya on the water.

[dicudmore]

Dicudmore,
Thanks for the response. I thought you came off as an un educated lightning hater.I feel like Jason Van Beek is a good person to deal with. I have heard too many bad things about Jerry however never had any real dealings with him. I like to give everyone a fair chance. We'll see how it goes.
See ya on the water.
Main thing is it will get ya on the water...thats the bottom line.
Stop by and introduce yourself, I'm in Havasu every weekend.

[CBadDad]

Why buy new? You can open the boattrader on any given day and find a shit load of 22,23,24,26,28 ect foot used boats just a few years older than what you are looking for. I have bought two brand new boats in my lifetime and lost money on both. Save yourself 10-20K. Unless you are just one of the fortunate people who has so much money it makes no difference.
I am looking at used boats, but the used Ultra's are still tremendously more than others.
For the record they are by no means the only company I would NEVER buy a boat from...you can add Genesis, Commander, Caliber1, B&H, I may be forgetting somebody here but you get the idea. Heck, some of the above mentioned I would not take a boat from them if it was FREE.
Dicudmore's post, is extremely enlightning, as it appeared that some of the above named boats were where it seemed possible to get more bang for the buck.
What to do?

[College Fund]

dicudmore, very nicely said. As I stated before I am new to this site and everyones input is great! I hope to meet you all some day at Havasu.

[dicudmore]

I am looking at used boats, but the used Ultra's are still tremendously more than others.
Dicudmore's post, is extremely enlightning, as it appeared that some of the above named boats were where it seemed possible to get more bang for the buck.
What to do?
check your pm's again

[bchbum]

We bought a new Ultra Lighting jet in 2002 ,out the door with a place & perco switch for $32,200 . Used it for 3 years ,started getting the 2 foot itch so we sold it for $30,000 . The couple that bought it would have paid us more for it ,than we paid because of how much prices had gone-up in 3 years . Buy a name brand & they will hold their value for years :cool:

[jbone]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Shockwave yet. I was also looking at Ultra's and was priced out of the boat I really wanted.
I saw Barry from Shockwave at the boat show in 2005.
I can't say enough good things about them.
Talk about value for your money. They put together a very solid boat. I got tons of upgrades to my 21 skier and still came in under the standard Stealth.
I too may someday own an Ultra because I love the 23 Shadow, but if Shockwave ever makes a similar boat I will look at them first.
J

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Shockwave yet.
Let the cheerleading begin.....

[shippingguy]

oh where to begin...
Me an Ultra snob? I like to think not but could certainly be wrong...
Socalmofo you have been on this board long enough that you probably know my current Ultra is not exactly my first boat. I had a CHEETAH before this, and a long list of boats before that. I consider myself fortunate enough to have friends on and off this board that own damn near every make and model boat built on the west coast, and have been lucky enough to ride in and drive nearly all of them. They all have their differences, pluses and minuses, boils down to personal choice/preference. Plus, which company you're comfortable doing business with. After a couple seasons of running my Cheetah 29' V, decided I wanted a cat. As you're likely aware, Cheetah does not have a Cat in their line-up or very likely I would have gone back there and at least gave them a shot at my business again. Started looking at who had what in the Cat category...met with Keith at Conquest (GREAT GUY) looked at their Boss Cat and their Deck Boat (drove the deck, VERY NICE RIDING BOAT) Looked at and drove the Domn8er cat, wasn't for me, mainly based on the vibe from the owner as opposed to anything actually wrong with the boat itself. Wound up getting demo ride offers from 2 board members with Ultra 27' Shadows (Shipping Guy and Shadow...thanks, you two cost me a LOT of $$$) obviously that was the direction we chose to go. I could tell you my stories of how I've been treated as an ULTRA customer but would probably take an hour to read...Will be glad to share them over a Dr Pepper when you pull up next to me in the channel and introduce yourself though.
You are correct, Lightning does have some very nice gel-coats out there. Aren't they shot by one of the Casillas'?? A family FULL of talented gel-coaters. Part of my decision to go with Ultra on my newest boat was the fact that Martin Casillas (owner of Orion custom boats if you weren't aware) does the gel for Ultra.
By no means did I say anywhere that Lightning builds a bad boat, an unsafe boat, an ugly boat...NONE of that...I CHOOSE not to do business with anybody named Van Beek for personal reasons based on their past dealings in the boat business...Also a LONG story. (Search Jerry Van Beek on the forums and you may find part of what I'm referring to) The reason I recommend other board members also choose not to do business there is boating is supposed to be a fun, family event. The last thing anybody wants is to feel like they are getting a shady deal from a shady guy, lied to etc etc etc. That would just drive more families away from this great activity. There are several people here on these boards that got bad vibes from those folks (ask Kilrtoy what he thinks just as a reference)
Your statement of "boat is built as good as any Ultra I've seen" is where we differ. There are DEFINITELY differences in how the boat is built. I can not comment on Lightning's lay-up as I don't know for sure who is laying them up and with what materials etc. Certainly if you have the 2 boats side by side and really start to nit-pick them you will find the differences. Whether it be in the engine compartment rigging, under-dash wiring, rub-rail installation etc, trust me you WILL find it. Does this make it a "bad boat?" Or unsafe? HELL NO. Would I feel safe putting myself or my family on one? Absolutely...Is it built to the standards of some of the other west coast builders? NO... It is not built like (in no particular order) a Hallett, Essex, Howard, Lavey, Ultra, DCB etc.
For the record they are by no means the only company I would NEVER buy a boat from...you can add Genesis, Commander, Caliber1, B&H, I may be forgetting somebody here but you get the idea. Heck, some of the above mentioned I would not take a boat from them if it was FREE.
You know Lightning in San Fernando used to be a dealer for Ultra. In fact I believe they used to call themselves Ultra of San Fernando. Did they share any of the details of why they are not anymore? I do not know the entire story myself.
You're right, I've never owned a Lightning boat, but do feel that I have a qualified opinion. We all know what opinions are worth though...
Well said Dan. Your welcome I am glad I could help in your spending. Hope to see you soon. We will be back up this weekend.

[wright27]

[QUOTE=CBadDad]I am looking at used boats, but the used Ultra's are still tremendously more than others.
But still less than new. IMO Ultra is nothing more than an overated name.

[dicudmore]

[QUOTE=CBadDad]I am looking at used boats, but the used Ultra's are still tremendously more than others.
But still less than new. IMO Ultra is nothing more than an overated name.
just curious why you have that opinion :idea:

[wright27]

just curious why you have that opinion :idea:
I looked very closley at the Ultra and the Lightning. Unless I missed something I honestly could not see anything that would make the Ultra worth more except for the trendy name, and after watching the show they had on T.V. they seem like dumbasses.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I looked very closley at the Ultra and the Lightning. Unless I missed something I honestly could not see anything that would make the Ultra worth more except for the trendy name, and after watching the show they had on T.V. they seem like dumbasses.
This holds for any boat comparison, but did you look at the fit and finish only or the construction process? Fit and finish can be similar between two boats but the overall construction process is where there can be a real difference which explains the difference in quality and price.

[wright27]

Explain the difference between the two. I am curious to hear.

[shippingguy]

I looked very closley at the Ultra and the Lightning. Unless I missed something I honestly could not see anything that would make the Ultra worth more except for the trendy name, and after watching the show they had on T.V. they seem like dumbasses.
Have you ever thought that TV has a lot of made up drama??? Do you really think that if they were dumbasses they would have the reputation they have and the customer loyalty, let alone be in business still?? Maybe you should go down to San Diego and see how things are ran first hand and then give your input here on the boards!

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Explain the difference between the two. I am curious to hear.
I've never seen Lightning go thru the process of building boats. All I was pointing out is that comparing two similar sized and equipped boats after construction will not give you a true indicator of the construction values that were used in building the boat.
As an example:
Company A: has bitchen gel coat designs and their rigging is good enough, not a rats nest, but not as neat as it could be, uses only 4 layers of fiberglass, does not core the hull, has partial length stringers, screws their hardware into the boat, and only attaches the wiring every foot or so and they charge X dollars for a 21 foot boat.
Company B: has just as good as gel coat designs as company A does. They use 8 layers of fiberglass, core the hull, have 4 full length stringers, thru-bolt all of their hardware and attach all of the wiring together every inch or so in addition to using cushioned clamps to attach them to the transom and charges X+$10k for a 21 foot boat.
You can see there is a difference in the construction values used between company A and company B. That difference justifies the cost difference for a similarly priced and equipped boat. The differences are not things that will come to light just by looking at the completed product.

[jbone]

Company B: has just as good as gel coat designs as company A does. They use 8 layers of fiberglass, core the hull, have 4 full length stringers, thru-bolt all of their hardware and attach all of the wiring together every inch or so in addition to using cushioned clamps to attach them to the transom and charges X+$10k for a 21 foot boat.
Sounds like SHOCKWAVE, but the +$10k is throwing me off. Who is it?? ;)
J

[cc322]

If your looking at your first boat and money is a concern I would call Ron Pace at Renegade performance boats and see what he can do for you. Ron made us a sweet deal on our first 21 boat and they stand behind there product. Not a big name company but big enough to care about the customer during and after they build the boat They also have a nice 23 which use to be a Ulta / Caliber1 at one time. You will find out alot of these older molds have been whored out to alot of different builders and are still in production.
http://www.renegadeperformanceboats.com/

[wright27]

I've never seen Lightning go thru the process of building boats. All I was pointing out is that comparing two similar sized and equipped boats after construction will not give you a true indicator of the construction values that were used in building the boat.
As an example:
Company A: has bitchen gel coat designs and their rigging is good enough, not a rats nest, but not as neat as it could be, uses only 4 layers of fiberglass, does not core the hull, has partial length stringers, screws their hardware into the boat, and only attaches the wiring every foot or so and they charge X dollars for a 21 foot boat.
Company B: has just as good as gel coat designs as company A does. They use 8 layers of fiberglass, core the hull, have 4 full length stringers, thru-bolt all of their hardware and attach all of the wiring together every inch or so in addition to using cushioned clamps to attach them to the transom and charges X+$10k for a 21 foot boat.
You can see there is a difference in the construction values used between company A and company B. That difference justifies the cost difference for a similarly priced and equipped boat. The differences are not things that will come to light just by looking at the completed product.
There is no justifying the cost of boats today. They are the price they are because it is popular and people have money to burn right now. I can see the cost difference between one using more materials than the other. When I was seriously looking at the Ultra and the Lightning, I discussed quality with both manufacturers. They both agreed the lightning was just as good of quality the only difference was the lightning mold are the older ultra molds (this is not information I know, this is info that was told to me). Ultra boats are very nice boats don't get me wrong. There is just some information be passed on here that seems more like opinions than educated information. The question I asked was what makes the ultra worth so much more money than the lightning. I understand the A- B comparison, but what about the ultra -lightning comparison.Guys are saying they would never buy a lightning and other than not caring for the owner I have seen no answer why. I am not trying to start a big debate or seem like an asshole I would just like to know.

[wright27]

Have you ever thought that TV has a lot of made up drama??? Do you really think that if they were dumbasses they would have the reputation they have and the customer loyalty, let alone be in business still?? Maybe you should go down to San Diego and see how things are ran first hand and then give your input here on the boards!
Yes T.V. does do this, but would you want you business shown to be this way. The episode I watched the guy placed they said like 20 screws right through the gas tank, they discovered this on the water after the boat was built.

[shippingguy]

Yes T.V. does do this, but would you want you business shown to be this way. The episode I watched the guy placed they said like 20 screws right through the gas tank, they discovered this on the water after the boat was built.
It has not hurt the business at all. Believe me I know the episode and have been in the boat personally. I actually do not remember anybody ever saying that there were 20 screws in the gas tank. Also that had to do with the stereo guys which are no longer a part of the company. You are entitled to your opinion and that is what the boards are about, but get the facts straight before you start personal attacks on people because believe me you do not have your facts straight. I reiterate go down to the factory in San Diego and THEN come on here and give your opinion. I will bet it will be different!

[shippingguy]

There is no justifying the cost of boats today. They are the price they are because it is popular and people have money to burn right now. I can see the cost difference between one using more materials than the other. When I was seriously looking at the Ultra and the Lightning, I discussed quality with both manufacturers. They both agreed the lightning was just as good of quality the only difference was the lightning mold are the older ultra molds (this is not information I know, this is info that was told to me). Ultra boats are very nice boats don't get me wrong. There is just some information be passed on here that seems more like opinions than educated information. The question I asked was what makes the ultra worth so much more money than the lightning. I understand the A- B comparison, but what about the ultra -lightning comparison.Guys are saying they would never buy a lightning and other than not caring for the owner I have seen no answer why. I am not trying to start a big debate or seem like an asshole I would just like to know.
To answer the question for you. It is called integrity of the people involved in said company!! Remember once you buy the boat you are going to have issues whether they are big or small that is part of boating. You want to make sure the company is going to be around when that time comes!

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Sounds like SHOCKWAVE, but the +$10k is throwing me off. Who is it?? ;)
J
It's a generalization representing no company. We now return you to your regularly scheduled cheerleading.....

[College Fund]

Let me get this all straight. From what I am reading if you spend more money on the boat it makes the boat better. Everyone is entitled to there opion, but I think that you should not base your choice on how much you spent but what your getting for your money. A 496mag or 496Ho and a Bravo 1 outdrive is the same no matter what boat it is in. So buy what you can afford and get on the water and start having some fun.

[wright27]

To answer the question for you. It is called integrity of the people involved in said company!! Remember once you buy the boat you are going to have issues whether they are big or small that is part of boating. You want to make sure the company is going to be around when that time comes!
That is the first logical post yet said on this thread. Ultra has proven they will be herefor the long haul.That is very important when paying that much money for a new toy. Boat companies come and go all the time, and lightning may be one of those. Guess we will have to wait and see. As far as the show goes I really did not pay that much attention to all the details, it was not that good of a show. like you said T.V. likes to show drama, people love it, I personally can't stand it.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

From what I am reading if you spend more money on the boat it makes the boat better. Everyone is entitled to there opion, but I think that you should not base your choice on how much you spent but what your getting for your money. A 496mag or 496Ho and a Bravo 1 outdrive is the same no matter what boat it is in. So buy what you can afford and get on the water and start having some fun.
Cost does have an impact on the quality of construction, plain and simple. Yes, the motor and drive packages are relatively close in price as they come from the same supplier. It's the actual construction of the boat, how the glass is laid, the type of glass used, the type of resin used, how long it sits in the mold, how the deck and hull are bonded together, the hardware that is used etc. All of that plays into the cost of the boat. Some builders do it on the cheap by using inferior materials and not taking the extra steps whereas others choose to use better materials and take the time to build quality into the boat. As an example, one builder may use drywall screws where another uses stainless steel screws. Or one builder may just screw the rocker panel into the gell coat whereas another thru-bolts it and secures it with a locknut.

[CBadDad]

I think that you should not base your choice on how much you spent but what your getting for your money. A 496mag or 496Ho and a Bravo 1 outdrive is the same no matter what boat it is in.
Seems to me that although the engine and materials are gonna cost the same, it does matter who rigs them (is that the right verb?). Having said that, how much does that come into play when deciding on a boat. I've seen Ultras advertised by a dealer in Burbank that will put in whatever motor you want. Is that really the same as a boat with the motor installed in Ultra's factory in San Diego (or whoever does it across the street)?
If there is a difference, then how does one go about knowing who rigged the boat when buying used?
Thanks for all of the info here. I'm learning a lot and laughing a bit too.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

If there is a difference, then how does one go about knowing who rigged the boat when buying used?
Thanks for all of the info here. I'm learning a lot and laughing a bit too.
I bet if you called the builder, assuming they are still in business, they could tell you some generic information about the boat if you provide the year and model.
Thanks for all of the info here. I'm learning a lot and laughing a bit too.
That's what we're hear for, to help people learn. We were all newbies at some point.

[BoaterX]

Check out the boat on my signature, it's for sale (Will be in boat trader 4/20/06).
I bought from a smaller builder, for thousands less than the bigger boat builders. Several people on these forums (Not all, but a few) ranted and raved about their brand name boats and cursed anything that was not brand name. It was a good step for me to get into a new boat at a great price! Looking back, I should have got into a bigger boat, but I was too eager for a boat and now realize a deck boat will suit me better.
Yes, lots of people will cheerlead for the brand of boat they own. Some people will tell you, if it was cheap, then it must be cheap, but I can surely say that I got a great deal on a great boat. I welcome anyone to check out how my boat is put together. I checked several references for the builder, who has worked for some of the bigger boat builders in their earlier days and has since branched off on his own.
If you are going to avoid the brand name boats, the best thing you can do is lots of research as others have said in this post. KNOW how the boat is built from the ground up and also KNOW that they have a good reputation for delivering on time, as agreed.

[CBadDad]

(Search Jerry Van Beek on the forums and you may find part of what I'm referring to)
I did a search and came up with nada.
I also can't find a Lightning website? What up with that? Anyone?
Seems to me that Lightning isn't the only Ultra spin off. Shockwave comes to mind, as I am sure there are others. Was Lightnings just bad blood?
If their product is good, would you consider a used boat from them?
My search continues...

[socalmofo]

Cbad,
I live in El Cajon and am taking delivery of my lightning this Friday. Feel free to come check it out. The quality is great!
The website is www.lightningcustomboats.com

[wright27]

I did a search and came up with nada.
I also can't find a Lightning website? What up with that? Anyone?
Seems to me that Lightning isn't the only Ultra spin off. Shockwave comes to mind, as I am sure there are others. Was Lightnings just bad blood?
If their product is good, would you consider a used boat from them?
My search continues...
www.lightningcustomboats.com

[voodoomedman]

Seems to me that although the engine and materials are gonna cost the same, it does matter who rigs them (is that the right verb?). Having said that, how much does that come into play when deciding on a boat. I've seen Ultras advertised by a dealer in Burbank that will put in whatever motor you want. Is that really the same as a boat with the motor installed in Ultra's factory in San Diego (or whoever does it across the street)?
If there is a difference, then how does one go about knowing who rigged the boat when buying used?
Thanks for all of the info here. I'm learning a lot and laughing a bit too.
PM Ultra28 or call 619-443-1100 and ask for John and give him the HIN number on any Ultra and he will tell you if he built it and if he rigged it. If your looking at an Ultra then call him about that too cuz he may just make you a ***boat deal on a new or used one. Dicudmore's post was great. I do love my Ultra. I do think they are a great boat. I'm not blind and dumb to think that they are the best built boat on the market. I do think they are one of the better builder's on the market though. You would also be hard pressed to find better customer service. But you have to look at what fits your needs. For instance, DCB is a bichen freaking great quality boat. I would not question anything as far as quality or customer service with them; However, they are more setup for speed and performance. Besides the quality and service I bought my boat because it probably has the most room in it than anything up to even up to 26 foot, all the features, the rear facing seats, and it still performs pretty darn well for every once in a while when I do want to drop the hammer. You won't be dissapointed with an Ultra. If it's not what fits your needs then you wouldn't be dissapointed with quite a few other builders as well but............In my humble opinion I think that there would be a good chance that you could end up dissapointed with a Lightning.

[rivercrazy]

Seems to me that Lightning isn't the only Ultra spin off. Shockwave comes to mind.
Shockwave has no historical afffilation with Ultra. Completely different boat builder, product line, ownership, management etc.

[CBadDad]

Shockwave has no historical afffilation with Ultra. Completely different boat builder, product line, ownership, management etc.
Really? I met John at Ultra last year. I had just come from looking at a Shockwave. He knew everything about that boat and I thought he said that one of his former employee's started Shockwave.
I don't want to start anything and I could be wrong as I have a lot of dead brain cells floatin' around up here taking up space and sometimes I get confused. :eek:

[rivercrazy]

Really? I met John at Ultra last year. I had just come from looking at a Shockwave. He knew everything about that boat and I thought he said that one of his former employee's started Shockwave.
I don't want to start anything and I could be wrong as I have a lot of dead brain cells floatin' around up here taking up space and sometimes I get confused. :eek:
It wouldn't surprise me that John is familiar with Shockwave's product line. They are competitor so-cal boat builders.
As far as I know, Bob Anderson and Danny Mancini were never direct employees of Ultra. The Shockwave guys did do some layup and rigging for Ultra many many years ago but that was a long before they started Shockwave. But they didn't work for Ultra - they were subcontractors from my understanding.
If you look at Shockwave's product line - you will see its substantially different than Ultra. They share little if any similarities

[socalmofo]

I think that there would be a good chance that you could end up dissapointed with a Lightning.
What are your reasons for believing this. I have yet to hear any solid facts that lightning's are built bad or have bad customer service. It seems to be all hear say.
That's like saying, If you buy an Ultra, you will never get ahold of the owner because he spends all day trying to look like superman and making posts on ***boat about all the nice things he does.
Why doesn't John West come on here and explain the whole story. His wife even said he spends all day on ***boat, I'm sure he has read this topic.
I hear people always badmouthing lightning,
voodoomedman - Owns an Ultra
Jbwithtrailer - Owns an Ultra
Dicudmore - Owns an Ultra
There is a trend there. Anyone have first hand experience? Anyone here actually an unhappy lightning owner?
It's all hear-say, my uncles friends mailman cousins sisters neighbor owns one and it sucked.
I have yet to meet an unhappy owner.

[dicudmore]

What are your reasons for believing this. I have yet to hear any solid facts that lightning's are built bad or have bad customer service. It seems to be all hear say.
That's like saying, If you buy an Ultra, you will never get ahold of the owner because he spends all day trying to look like superman and making posts on ***boat about all the nice things he does.
Why doesn't John West come on here and explain the whole story. His wife even said he spends all day on ***boat, I'm sure he has read this topic.
I hear people always badmouthing lightning,
voodoomedman - Owns an Ultra
Jbwithtrailer - Owns an Ultra
Dicudmore - Owns an Ultra
There is a trend there. Anyone have first hand experience? Anyone here actually an unhappy lightning owner?
It's all hear-say, my uncles friends mailman cousins sisters neighbor owns one and it sucked.
I have yet to meet an unhappy owner.
I have PERSONALLY been lied to, un-truth, call it what you want...from the people at LIGHTNING BOATS in San Fernando. I grew up in Valencia, then moved to Simi, Lightning is literally MINUTES from either of my so-cal homes. I CHOSE to buy a boat from a builder in Havasu in 04, and San Diego this time.
Ask KILRTOY on this board about his meeting with them, or Jet-Driver...both so-cal people that had BAD experiences there. That doesn't mean that Ultra, or anybody else is perfect...thats just my experience.
What matters here is that YOU chose to give them your hard-earned money. If they treat you right as a customer, build the boat the way you want it, and it gets you out on the water to enjoy with your family that is the main thing.
You probably will never see John West on this board discussing it...its called taking the high road :wink:

[dicudmore]

It wouldn't surprise me that John is familiar with Shockwave's product line. They are competitor so-cal boat builders.
As far as I know, Bob Anderson and Danny Mancini were never direct employees of Ultra. The Shockwave guys did do some layup and rigging for Ultra many many years ago but that was a long before they started Shockwave. But they didn't work for Ultra - they were subcontractors from my understanding.
If you look at Shockwave's product line - you will see its substantially different than Ultra. They share little if any similarities
this would be in the days of West Coast Tooling...yes/no?
Wasn't Alex part of that as well??

[College Fund]

Maybe some people just don't want to give Lightning a chance. I bet when BMW first came here no one would by one. Just something to think about?

[havasudream123]

Wow! this is my first post. Just bought a Lightning 23'. Took delivery a few weeks ago. My boat is BAD ASS!! Got what I wanted and the people were very nice and professional. I have been there at least 10 times (loved watching the boat get built) met many of their customers and never saw one that was unhappy. I don't mean to come on here and pump up lightning, But geeeezzz, you guys are insulting the Item I like most in my life ( besides family) and work my butt off to keep. I read these forums before I bought a boat and also did not see any posts about lightning from actual owners, just owners of other boats bashing anothers product. I just paid well over $50,000.00 for my boat and you so called friendly boaters want to rip the company and lower the value of my boat with nothing but a bunch of sloppy talk for no ones benifit but your own. I am sure you all have the greatest boat in the world, but I feel I have the greatest boat in the world. I respect your opinion, why do you insult mine or other lightning owners. I went to all the other boat shops and looked very closely. All installation was very similar to Ultra, Eliminator, etc. There were some things I liked better in the other boats I saw rigged and some things I liked better in the lightning. All in all I chose Lightning. The qualitly of the instruments was superior and the options that Lightning have as standard equipt. was far more than all companies I compaired to. gotta figure out this site but I'll post pics of the boat. Please don't hate me because I did not buy your favorite boat. All I did was buy my favorite boat.

[jbtrailerjim]

What are your reasons for believing this. I have yet to hear any solid facts that lightning's are built bad or have bad customer service. It seems to be all hear say.
That's like saying, If you buy an Ultra, you will never get ahold of the owner because he spends all day trying to look like superman and making posts on ***boat about all the nice things he does.
Why doesn't John West come on here and explain the whole story. His wife even said he spends all day on ***boat, I'm sure he has read this topic.
I hear people always badmouthing lightning,
voodoomedman - Owns an Ultra
Jbwithtrailer - Owns an Ultra
Dicudmore - Owns an Ultra
There is a trend there. Anyone have first hand experience? Anyone here actually an unhappy lightning owner?
It's all hear-say, my uncles friends mailman cousins sisters neighbor owns one and it sucked.
I have yet to meet an unhappy owner.
I have never said anything negative about the build quality of a Lightning. The only negative I said was about Jerry Van Beek. The guy is a crook. He totaly f*cked over a friend of mine years ago. Jason who owns Lightning is Jerry's brother. Anybody who thinks Jerry has nothing to do with Lightning is nuts. I personaly won't do business with any boat builder who has a shady past. I don't give a shit how good of a boat they build. If they are a crook, there day's of being in business are numbered.
There are plenty of people who have had bad dealings with Jason back when he owned Ultra Boats of San Fernando Valley. Do you honestly think John West pulled the dealership from him because he was such a great guy and his customer service was top notch?

[socalmofo]

Wow! this is my first post. Just bought a Lightning 23'. Took delivery a few weeks ago. My boat is BAD ASS!! Got what I wanted and the people were very nice and professional. I have been there at least 10 times (loved watching the boat get built) met many of their customers and never saw one that was unhappy. I don't mean to come on here and pump up lightning, But geeeezzz, you guys are insulting the Item I like most in my life ( besides family) and work my butt off to keep. I read these forums before I bought a boat and also did not see any posts about lightning from actual owners, just owners of other boats bashing anothers product. I just paid well over $50,000.00 for my boat and you so called friendly boaters want to rip the company and lower the value of my boat with nothing but a bunch of sloppy talk for no ones benifit but your own. I am sure you all have the greatest boat in the world, but I feel I have the greatest boat in the world. I respect your opinion, why do you insult mine or other lightning owners. I went to all the other boat shops and looked very closely. All installation was very similar to Ultra, Eliminator, etc. There were some things I liked better in the other boats I saw rigged and some things I liked better in the lightning. All in all I chose Lightning. The qualitly of the instruments was superior and the options that Lightning have as standard equipt. was far more than all companies I compaired to. gotta figure out this site but I'll post pics of the boat. Please don't hate me because I did not buy your favorite boat. All I did was buy my favorite boat.
Great post. Wow!
Another lightning owner - Happy.

[CBadDad]

I have never said anything negative about the build quality of a Lightning. The only negative I said was about Jerry Van Beek. The guy is a crook. He totaly f*cked over a friend of mine years ago. Jason who owns Lightning is Jerry's brother. Anybody who thinks Jerry has nothing to do with Lightning is nuts. I personaly won't do business with any boat builder who has a shady past. I don't give a shit how good of a boat they build. If they are a crook, there day's of being in business are numbered.
There are plenty of people who have had bad dealings with Jason back when he owned Ultra Boats of San Fernando Valley. Do you honestly think John West pulled the dealership from him because he was such a great guy and his customer service was top notch?
O.K., so let me make sure I have this clear. The brother of Lightning Boats is a crook, so I shouldn't by one of their boats? What about a used one?
What did he do that warrants all this hostility?
Sorry for being such an FNG, but I'm looking at a '05 model right now that looks like a smokin' deal, and I'm trying to sort it all out...

[THOR]

Great post. Wow!
Another lightning owner - Happy.
with a whole 1 post. :rolleyes:

[havasudream123]

Because I love my Lightning, I will ask the other Lightning owners I have met to post their opinions here at Hot Boat. I will in no way "cherry pick" the people. Hopefully they will all be honest and give credit where credit is due and also be critical where improvement can be made. The people at Lightning seem to really care about their buisness and they will probably take heed to the criticism and correct any problems they have with service or sales techniques. This will only improve the company, myself and the other Lightning owners will also reap the benfits in great service and increased value of our boats. Pointing out a problem is good, criticism is good. It makes people improve themselves and their buisness. (I think we all have room for improvement) Bashing and insults with no constructive criticism is very non productive and only hurts the people you are supposidly trying to help. Bashing any boat buisness only weakens the entire industry. Many of you here try to make the boat company you deal with have a monopoly on the industry, this is not a good thing. Give the new guy a chance, make him enter the industry with a lower overhead ( not a bloated history of committments and payments, which all older companies start to accumulate) have them come in with fresh ideas and a willingness to run without a big profit for the benefit of promoting their boat to the market. This will only drive down the prices for all of us. Competition drives down prices! Why do many of you here try to stop competition? You are only screwing yourself.
I know that many of you have Ultra's and are proud of them. You all mention that they are expensive because of the quality of the materials they use....Hmmmm. I have also read many posts about the person who owns ultra or Eliminator... River homes, outrageous vehicles, ranch homes with horses, airplanes, etc. etc. They sound like true High Rollers. You guys think that maybe the cost of an Ultra or an Eliminator is so High for other reason than just materials????????

[havasudream123]

I have to start with the first post. Does having 8,000 give me more credability? Or just make me a blowhard with nothing but time on my hands. I have read many posts of you high posters. Thousands of your posts are about very mundane things. Headings like... "I just saw a rat" or "pass gas ha ha". Many of the posts you guys have are very informative and intelligent. Just as many posts are only friends talking about things that no one is interested in but them, or about Tits, or Ass or etc. etc.. It's all fun talk, but credability being baised only on the number of posts is not an accurate perception.

[dicudmore]

Because I love my Lightning, I will ask the other Lightning owners I have met to post their opinions here at Hot Boat. I will in no way "cherry pick" the people. Hopefully they will all be honest and give credit where credit is due and also be critical where improvement can be made. The people at Lightning seem to really care about their buisness and they will probably take heed to the criticism and correct any problems they have with service or sales techniques. This will only improve the company, myself and the other Lightning owners will also reap the benfits in great service and increased value of our boats. Pointing out a problem is good, criticism is good. It makes people improve themselves and their buisness. (I think we all have room for improvement) Bashing and insults with no constructive criticism is very non productive and only hurts the people you are supposidly trying to help. Bashing any boat buisness only weakens the entire industry. Many of you here try to make the boat company you deal with have a monopoly on the industry, this is not a good thing. Give the new guy a chance, make him enter the industry with a lower overhead ( not a bloated history of committments and payments, which all older companies start to accumulate) have them come in with fresh ideas and a willingness to run without a big profit for the benefit of promoting their boat to the market. This will only drive down the prices for all of us. Competition drives down prices! Why do many of you here try to stop competition? You are only screwing yourself.
I know that many of you have Ultra's and are proud of them. You all mention that they are expensive because of the quality of the materials they use....Hmmmm. I have also read many posts about the person who owns ultra or Eliminator... River homes, outrageous vehicles, ranch homes with horses, airplanes, etc. etc. They sound like true High Rollers. You guys think that maybe the cost of an Ultra or an Eliminator is so High for other reason than just materials????????
I for one hope they are improving their people skills and their boats...This sport is supposed to be a good time for people...I know how much I love being on the water, grew up around boats and never stopped. Probably never will. Boating is fun, thats what its all about. Whether you're in a Sun-Tracker or a DCB the bottom line is just being out there enjoying it with good friends etc. Hearing about, and or seeing people ripped off, does not = good times.
The Van Beek's (yes Jerry and Jason) have EARNED their reputation as being crooks. Newbies in the boat business they are not, they have been in the boat business a LONG TIME, and have a long documented history of SCREWING PEOPLE. This is not good for our hobby/sport. If they are doing the right thing now, thats great to hear.

[havasudream123]

If what you guys say about Lightning or the vanbeeks (whom ever that is?) is true. Then maybe they have learned from their mistakes in their supposid past. I have not seen any of it in my dealings with Lightning.

[dicudmore]

If what you guys say about Lightning or the vanbeeks (whom ever that is?) is true. Then maybe they have learned from their mistakes in their supposid past. I have not seen any of it in my dealings with Lightning.
I hope so! What does your boat look like and where do you run it? If you make it to Havi come by and introduce yourself :cool:

[THOR]

It sure seems like there are Lightning owners crawling out from everywhere to defend their boats. This entire thread seems like a big JUSTIFICATION as to why a boat builder shut the doors. Is there anything else I am missing besides the justification?

[dicudmore]

It sure seems like there are Lightning owners crawling out from everywhere to defend their boats. This entire thread seems like a big JUSTIFICATION as to why a boat builder shut the doors. Is there anything else I am missing besides the justification?
who shut the doors?
Damn the madness I'm so behind on everything...

[havasudream123]

Nice! A friendly invitation, thank you. My boat is not too wild, but I like it. Fully blended light grey base, purple and blueish flames. 496 Mag. nice stereo etc. I'll get some pics. and post them. Hey, how do I post my little profile on this site?
Would love to meet up with people in Havasu. That's why I'm on the hot boat thing. Wanna meet like minded people. Hope to go a lot this year.

[havasudream123]

Shut the doors??????? What are you talking about?

[dicudmore]

Nice! A friendly invitation, thank you. My boat is not too wild, but I like it. Fully blended light grey base, purple and blueish flames. 496 Mag. nice stereo etc. I'll get some pics. and post them. Hey, how do I post my little profile on this site?
Would love to meet up with people in Havasu. That's why I'm on the hot boat thing. Wanna meet like minded people. Hope to go a lot this year.
go up into the top where it says user cp and you can put your info in there.
my boat is pretty easy to spot :wink:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1634101_0247.JPG

[dicudmore]

Shut the doors??????? What are you talking about?
must be referring to the Genesis dealio a couple weeks ago...also involves Jerry Van Beek and the sister. Don't know much more about it other than they may or may not still be open for business, and may or may not still have employees that can build a boat, or the equipment to do so...

[voodoomedman]

What are your reasons for believing this. I have yet to hear any solid facts that lightning's are built bad or have bad customer service. It seems to be all hear say.
That's like saying, If you buy an Ultra, you will never get ahold of the owner because he spends all day trying to look like superman and making posts on ***boat about all the nice things he does.
Why doesn't John West come on here and explain the whole story. His wife even said he spends all day on ***boat, I'm sure he has read this topic.
I hear people always badmouthing lightning,
voodoomedman - Owns an Ultra
Jbwithtrailer - Owns an Ultra
Dicudmore - Owns an Ultra
There is a trend there. Anyone have first hand experience? Anyone here actually an unhappy lightning owner?
It's all hear-say, my uncles friends mailman cousins sisters neighbor owns one and it sucked.
I have yet to meet an unhappy owner.
I did not say that you will be unhappy if you get one. I said you may be unhappy. There are probably many many happy lightning owners. I just think that the chance of being unhappy is moreso than with other builders. Even if it is only by 1%. I am not going to go into detail about the company or the owners. That has all been stated. When I was looking for my boat I went to the shows and talked to people in the booths and some just didn't feel right to me. I also did research as to how the boats are made and customer satisfaction and the such. If you read my whole post then you would see where I said I don't think Ultra is the best boat ever but I think it is a damn good one. You will also see where I said you have to look at your needs and buy a boat based on that and it is probably a good chance it might not be an Ultra. I distinctly remember standing on a guys Lightning on Lake Mohave in 2004 and talking with him and drinking a beer for about an hour and it was a nice looking boat. What was important at that time was hanging out and having a good time and getting to know someone else on the water and to him was that he brought his son out and got to spend time with him. That is the most important thing there. What else is important though is if your going to keep the boat for 10,20,30 years or even for just 6 months then what kind of issues might you have. Also if you have any issues then how will they be handled. Look around this website and do a search on other builders. You will see me say many positive things about other builders other than Ultra. I will also say negative things about other manufacturers I may know about that have never had anything to do with Ultra. I try to keep it objective though and keep out the bs. Basically I say my opinion and don't just bash. Bashing is stupid but I think opinions are good. If everybody on here said every boat and company was perfect then this place would suck as an information source and would only be good for nonboating stuff and boobies.

[voodoomedman]

Wow! this is my first post. Just bought a Lightning 23'. Took delivery a few weeks ago. My boat is BAD ASS!! Got what I wanted and the people were very nice and professional. I have been there at least 10 times (loved watching the boat get built) met many of their customers and never saw one that was unhappy. I don't mean to come on here and pump up lightning, But geeeezzz, you guys are insulting the Item I like most in my life ( besides family) and work my butt off to keep. I read these forums before I bought a boat and also did not see any posts about lightning from actual owners, just owners of other boats bashing anothers product. I just paid well over $50,000.00 for my boat and you so called friendly boaters want to rip the company and lower the value of my boat with nothing but a bunch of sloppy talk for no ones benifit but your own. I am sure you all have the greatest boat in the world, but I feel I have the greatest boat in the world. I respect your opinion, why do you insult mine or other lightning owners. I went to all the other boat shops and looked very closely. All installation was very similar to Ultra, Eliminator, etc. There were some things I liked better in the other boats I saw rigged and some things I liked better in the lightning. All in all I chose Lightning. The qualitly of the instruments was superior and the options that Lightning have as standard equipt. was far more than all companies I compaired to. gotta figure out this site but I'll post pics of the boat. Please don't hate me because I did not buy your favorite boat. All I did was buy my favorite boat.
I don't care if you pulled up in a 1965 pontoon boat with a Johnson on it. I'll say hey and have a beer with you. I am glad you are happy with your boat. I hope if you have any issues you will be taken care of. Our opinions are just that opinions. I personally have my opinions about the Van Beeks. On the other hand I really don't think that there is a crappy boat out there for the most part. I think that some are built better yes but that doesn't mean the others suck. A Mazda doesn't suck because it's not a Lexus. But the Lexus is built better. History does usually repeat itself though and I hope no one ever gets to buy the same boat that was sold to 4 other people.

[jbtrailerjim]

O.K., so let me make sure I have this clear. The brother of Lightning Boats is a crook, so I shouldn't by one of their boats? What about a used one?
What did he do that warrants all this hostility?
Sorry for being such an FNG, but I'm looking at a '05 model right now that looks like a smokin' deal, and I'm trying to sort it all out...
Dude, If you want to buy a used Lightning, knock yourself out. I just would not recommend someone to buy a new boat from Lightning (Jason Van Beek)or a new boat from Genesis (Jerry Van Beek).
Maybe the reason it seems like such a smokin deal is because they don't hold there value to well? A well built boat from a reputable builder will always hold there value better.

[socalmofo]

I am not going to go into detail about the company or the owners.
Please go into detail. I'm not bashing you if you have valid reasoning and facts. I am curious to know peoples first hand knowledge. All I usually hear is how they heard something, have no facts, but didn't like their attitude at the boat show (got a weird vibe). They seem fine to me.
Unless someone has facts they would like to say then why even respond?
Unless your stating facts, all this hear say is doing is hurting the reputation of the boat and peoples resale value.
All i hear is beating around the bush. Let's hear some JASON VAN BEEK stories. Not Jerry, JASON.

[Kilrtoy]

JESUS H CHRIST...
WTF IS GOING ON HERE.....
buy what you want....
There is a reason a Lexus cost what it does and a KIA cost what it does....
Buy what makes you happy...

[CBadDad]

JESUS H CHRIST...
WTF IS GOING ON HERE.....
buy what you want....
There is a reason a Lexus cost what it does and a KIA cost what it does....
Buy what makes you happy...
Sorry I asked...Sheesh.
BTW, I know the difference between a Lexas and a Kia, yet not ONE person here has suggested that the Lightning is a boat that is put together poorly, rather, they have suggested that the owner(s) are criminals. I'm just trying to figure out what the deal is.
Nevermind, forget I asked...

[THOR]

must be referring to the Genesis dealio a couple weeks ago...also involves Jerry Van Beek and the sister. Don't know much more about it other than they may or may not still be open for business, and may or may not still have employees that can build a boat, or the equipment to do so...
Word

[havasudream123]

It sure seems like there are Lightning owners crawling out from everywhere to defend their boats. This entire thread seems like a big JUSTIFICATION as to why a boat builder shut the doors. Is there anything else I am missing besides the justification?
Lightning owners crawling out from everywhere?? It's just me and some other guy that is looking at a used lightning. Take a look at who's posting! It seems the Ultra owners have crawled out of every cranny to defend their boat against Lightning. I have nothing against Ultra, they are beautiful well built boats, I hear the owner is great and you guys all love him. I feel the same way about my boat and the experience I had when I bought it. Why all the inuendo and veiled insults, just cause I didn't buy an ultra?

[THOR]

Lightning owners crawling out from everywhere?? It's just me and some other guy that is looking at a used lightning. Take a look at who's posting! It seems the Ultra owners have crawled out of every cranny to defend their boat against Lightning. I have nothing against Ultra, they are beautiful well built boats, I hear the owner is great and you guys all love him. I feel the same way about my boat and the experience I had when I bought it. Why all the inuendo and veiled insults, just cause I didn't buy an ultra?
There is nothing to defend against a Lightning. They are apples and oranges and everyone here knows that.

[wright27]

lightning is a very good boat, period. enough said. NEXT!!!!!!!

[cxr133]

lightning is a very good boat, period. enough said. NEXT!!!!!!!
what do you guys think of this comment?
are lightning boats very good??? :p

[socalmofo]

It seems the Ultra owners have crawled out of every cranny to defend their boat against Lightning.
Exactly! Yet still no facts, just a bunch of band wagoners until someone states some facts.
There is nothing to defend against a Lightning. They are apples and oranges and everyone here knows that.
Let's hear why Thor. You seem to be pretty knowledgablen on boats. Let's hear your first hand experience.

[College Fund]

I think this issue has been beat to Death. I think its time to end this and get whatever boat you choose and get it wet!!! :rollside:

[socalmofo]

I agree, It should be bye bye time for this thread.
I just gets old to hear people keep bashing a good company and not getting any explanation why.
Whatever, It is what it is.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I just gets old to hear people keep bashing a good company and not getting any explanation why.
You have been given explanations by a few people and you just refuse to accpet their reasoning. Which is fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[socalmofo]

You have been given explanations by a few people and you just refuse to accpet their reasoning.
Really? Your posts are about construction, no first hand experience, just general construction. The only other things I have read is that he is related to Jerry, and people got bad feelings at a boat show.
Real hard to accept that.

[havasudream123]

Opinions are fine. Insults (no matter how veiled they are) and unfounded accusations are not.. I wanna go to the river with my new Lightning , be friends and party with everyone. Now I have visions of going to the river with my 7 and 12 year old, who are beaming with pride over daddys new boat. Then being chased down and surrounded by the Ultra clan, who brow beat my kids till they cry, insult all adults on board untill they all submit on their knees and beg for forgivness at the errors of their ways.
Not that I think that all Ultra owners are rude or unfriendly. In the short time I have been on line here, a few ultra owners have graciously invited me to stop by for a drink and conversation, which I will definately do!
I got this boat to socialize with others and have fun compareing boats, bragging a little, fun and Light hearted conversation on why I think my boat is better than theirs, a little ribbing and a few drinks, all in jest and comaraderie. I have no vengence, just wanna have fun with my family and all of you on these boards.

[Dribble]

. Now I have visions of going to the river with my 7 and 12 year old, who are beaming with pride over daddys new boat. Then being chased down and surrounded by the Ultra clan, who brow beat my kids till they cry, insult all adults on board untill they all submit on their knees and beg for forgivness at the errors of their ways.
I promise that none of us Commander, Caliber 1, Kachina and Aftershock owners wont do that.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Really? Your posts are about construction, no first hand experience, just general construction. The only other things I have read is that he is related to Jerry, and people got bad feelings at a boat show.
Real hard to accept that.
I wasn't commenting one way or another on Lightning boats. I was just throwing out things that people may want to consider when purchasing a boat. I don't recall saying anything negative towards Lightning.
I don't own a Lightning so I have no idea what they are built like. I do know there is a reason why Ultra, the one in El Cajon, got away from using them as a distributor, what that reason is I have no idea, but there must have been some reason as very few business decisions in any busniess are made on the fly.
Also, people have said WAY more than just getting a bad vibe at the boat show from someone. People have explained that they had friends screwed by certain people affiliated or lossly affiliated with Lightning. Van Beek has a reputation for a reason.
Ultimately, you're the one that has to make the payments on your boat, or paid in cash for it so what anyone on here thinks is moot. If you're happy that's all that matters. Some of us were just trying to provide some insight on things to look for when considering the purchase of a West Coast performance boat as there are builders out there that will say that theri boat is just as good as boat X but is $10k cheaper. Well, there is a reason it is $10k cheaper and it aint all profit.

[THOR]

Exactly! Yet still no facts, just a bunch of band wagoners until someone states some facts.
Let's hear why Thor. You seem to be pretty knowledgablen on boats. Let's hear your first hand experience.
There are plenty of explanations on here Socal, you just choose to ignore them. Step in an Ultra then step in a Lightning. It will be clear. Nuff said.
If you see me on the water, come and say hi and I will give you a cold one. No worries.
I am on the left, Dad is on the right.
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/468Me_and_Dad-med.JPG

[THOR]

Opinions are fine. Insults (no matter how veiled they are) and unfounded accusations are not.. I wanna go to the river with my new Lightning , be friends and party with everyone. Now I have visions of going to the river with my 7 and 12 year old, who are beaming with pride over daddys new boat. Then being chased down and surrounded by the Ultra clan, who brow beat my kids till they cry, insult all adults on board untill they all submit on their knees and beg for forgivness at the errors of their ways.
Not that I think that all Ultra owners are rude or unfriendly. In the short time I have been on line here, a few ultra owners have graciously invited me to stop by for a drink and conversation, which I will definately do!
I got this boat to socialize with others and have fun compareing boats, bragging a little, fun and Light hearted conversation on why I think my boat is better than theirs, a little ribbing and a few drinks, all in jest and comaraderie. I have no vengence, just wanna have fun with my family and all of you on these boards.
You need to chill big fella. My boat in in the above post. Come by and have a cold one on me.

[BoaterX]

No matter what, there's going to be people who think their rig is better. I got a buddy like that. Says he'll buy nothing but Elim, Ultra or DCB. He's been saying that for years. He's still kicking rocks on the beach......
It's like a pair of jeans. Some of us are cool with Levi's and there's those who wear Armani jeans and think all else is crap.
What it comes down to is what you like and what you can afford. I've heard of delayed deliveries and broken promises from most builders (Including DCB, Ultra and Eliminator and others) at one time or another. I've seen similar threads with trash talk and cheerleading, but it comes down to what makes you happy. It also beats kickin' rocks during 110 degree summer.
Take your boat out and enjoy it with the fam bam! They're gonna love it.
On the water, most fellow boaters are more than friendly. The ***boat forums can get kinda stuffy sometimes. We all love our rigs, but there's no reason to put down anyone elses hard earned boat.

[USCFAN]

Step in an Ultra then step in a Lightning. It will be clear. Nuff said.
I have been in both. This is false. nuff said.
Whats false? :confused:

[Goodtime$]

Thor- on your 247, do you have an aqua step? is it needed with the swim step?
Thanks..what is the best kind of boat? your buddies BOAT.......
other than that, the people in bayliners have just as much fun as anyone else. Its a boat, enjoy it. If you are working all the time to pay for the big price tag than you are the dumb one.

[THOR]

Thor- on your 247, do you have an aqua step? is it needed with the swim step?
Thanks..what is the best kind of boat? your buddies BOAT.......
other than that, the people in bayliners have just as much fun as anyone else. Its a boat, enjoy it. If you are working all the time to pay for the big price tag than you are the dumb one.
I need an aqua step. It would be tough to get in without it.

[CBadDad]

Nevermind...

[BoaterX]

Fact is, if the non-Ultra and non-Eliminator boats were cheap and falling apart, the company would be out of business from the get go. Personally, there's one builder that I know I would stay away from without a doubt. Their product is not the problem, it's the failure to deliver that I've experienced first hand when the lynch mob of customers all showed up looking for their boats. I think they were all exchanging numbers in order to file a class action suit. I won't name names here, but use common sense when you are buying from a builder. Don't just cut a check and think it's all going to be ok. Do a simple search on bbb.com and check for complaints. Also talk to a few of their RECENT "Happy" customers and SEE their boats, ask questions.

[wright27]

Ultra is a great boat. IMO lightning is a good boat. It doesn't matter what you buy as long as what you buy is good enough for you.
We all have different opinions of what is good and what is not , but there is nothing worse than buying something because it is less money and then regreting it later.

[UltraSounds]

It has not hurt the business at all. Believe me I know the episode and have been in the boat personally. I actually do not remember anybody ever saying that there were 20 screws in the gas tank. Also that had to do with the stereo guys which are no longer a part of the company. You are entitled to your opinion and that is what the boards are about, but get the facts straight before you start personal attacks on people because believe me you do not have your facts straight. I reiterate go down to the factory in San Diego and THEN come on here and give your opinion. I will bet it will be different!facts are WAY off. It had nothing to do with the stereo either, it would be impossible!!! the filming of that boat on the lake was done before the stereo was even in there. And it was a nozzle at the back of the tank that was leaking, not any screws through the tank. It was a fabricated story to set up the next episode when i supposidly got fired :rolleyes: damn do some research would you??? do you believe everything you see on tv??? as a non boat person, i have seen some of the boats you are all talking about. Honestly, if i had to choose one??? my first call would be to Ultra. They probably wouldnt sell me one, but it is still a damn nice boat. :p And as a side note, the normal customers boats were not built ANYWHERE near how they said on the show. That show was stupid and thank god it is over with. Im sure John feels the same way.

[watergun4u]

well let me try to put this in a way all will understand! Ultra boats builds a very well built boat,I HAVE BUILT MANY!!!!!, THE ultra LX and the lightings are pretty much one in the same boat, except for, the lightings are a few steps less in options, witch can be added later if wanted! if you want some good anwsers on how ultra works feel free to email me, and i will tell you all about them, they are a great company!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cc322]

Didnt Ultra a few years back have a second boat(Lightning) that was priced lower because of less options? Kinda like Lightning was to Ultra as Laser is to Essex. By the time you add all the cool features you want your at the same price point anyhow, also I think alot of the Lightning molds have been whored out, not that there anything wrong with that.

[TRUMP TIGHT]

Biggest things to look at. How are their stringers attatched glue, screws, bolts or all of the above? How is their electrical and how well is it fastened? Zip ties or clamps? Aluminum or stainless? Single, double or triple stich, what grade of vinyle do they use? Single ply or double? Staples or screws? Who do they get their fiberglass and gelcoat from and how is it mixed? How is it applied and how long do they let it cure?
And get the best boat that fits you and your familys needs!!

[bchbum]

Ultra did build the Lighting hulls for a while ,I don't know who rigged them . I had a 2002 Ultra Lighting . After 3 years sold it for almost what I paid for it .
My buddy bought one at the L.A. boat show in 2001 from Lighting ,just sold it ,never had a problem . The saleman he used is the one I had & is still there . So the employees stay long term . :cool:

[UltraStealth]

I bought my Ultra from them. I bought it right before they turned into Lightning and Ultra canned them. They provided great service while I was in the process of buying the boat, who wouldn't be when your spending 50K. First off, they gave me a trailer that was all F$%ked up. Paint was all chipped off like someone hit it on something. They did give me a free service out of it because there were no other trailers available and wouldn't be for a while. Fine, no big deal. After my first few services, I called Jason & Brad, left serveral messages and never got a call back. My interior was fading and looked completely stained. I called them and they had the nerve to tell me sh!t happens. Gav in service was the only guy there who seemed to give a sh!t.
Finally, I get them to take a look at it. They realized something was wrong. so they said they would have the interior guy take a look at it when he came in to the shop and they would call to let me know when he would be there. Never got a call back. I even called them several times but got the run around. Finally, after two months and then calling John in San Diego they call back and have the nerve to tell me I need to drive the boat to the interior guy 2hours away. F$%k that. What happened to service? Oh, that's right, they got my 50K so who F#cking cares.
I don't think there boats are bad in any way. Hell, they may have improved their staff, who know's. Jason seemed like a cool guy, but flaky. I won't ever buy a boat from them again due to the service they didn't provide, but that's my opinion. I think the boats they build look good.
To have a successful business not only do you have to have a quality product but you need to provide great customer service.
Hopefully the service is improved at Lightning and all you don't experience the same level of service that I did, which was NONE. See you on the lake.

[havasudream123]

I just got my Lightning and so far it's been great. Gav is a great guy, I had a bad Tach he fed ex'd. me a new one the same day I called. He wanted to install it, but I can do that and save the drive from Anaheim to San Fernando.
Things must be different than 4 or 5 years ago. I talked to most of the people that work there and they all started about 6-7 years ago. Practice makes perfect. Hey Jason! If you're reading this, have I kissed Lightnings butt enough for those free Embroidered Jackets and Sweat shirts? Just kidding ;-) You guys are great, I love my boat.

[UltraStealth]

I just got my Lightning and so far it's been great. Gav is a great guy, I had a bad Tach he fed ex'd. me a new one the same day I called. He wanted to install it, but I can do that and save the drive from Anaheim to San Fernando.
Things must be different than 4 or 5 years ago. I talked to most of the people that work there and they all started about 6-7 years ago. Practice makes perfect. Hey Jason! If you're reading this, have I kissed Lightnings butt enough for those free Embroidered Jackets and Sweat shirts? Just kidding ;-) You guys are great, I love my boat.
Gav was always great. Glad to hear that. It sounds like things are changing. Now where are the pics of the new sled? :)

[socalmofo]

I picked up my lightning on the 26th of April and took it out that weekend. The boat ran great. I am extremely pleased so far.

[havasudream123]

Hey Ultrastealth. did you ever get the upholstery fixed? If not, I'll ask them, then we'll see if they take care of it now ,years later. Lets put them to the test.

[UltraStealth]

Hey Ultrastealth. did you ever get the upholstery fixed? If not, I'll ask them, then we'll see if they take care of it now ,years later. Lets put them to the test.
Yep, I had it taken care of by an upholstery shop out here. John @ Ultra in San Diego was going to take care of it, but driving from LA to San Diego was a long drive. The upholstery company actually is mobile and came to the house to fix it. Jason still running the show there?

[havasudream123]

I'm pretty sure Jason's the owner. They have their own upholstery shop in the building next door. They did my Upholstery there. I see them do other mfg's boats there also.

[UltraStealth]

I'm pretty sure Jason's the owner. They have their own upholstery shop in the building next door. They did my Upholstery there. I see them do other mfg's boats there also.
Things have changed since then. Now having their own company it makes sense to do it in-house. Where are those pics of the sled?

[watergun4u]

well dont have a bad feeling about all lighting boats, the ones that where made by ultra boats back in 94 thru 2000, where good boats, made like a ultra lx, just didnt have all the extra goodies, unless ordered that way! and the reason i no that those boats are good, is i built quite afew of them, at that time , the shop you are thinking of was west coast ultra boats, on lopez cyn rd in, san fernando, not sure if they are still there now, but that one was started by jerry van beek, and then it was taking over by his brother jason van beek, and gavin smitty, two good guys in my book! any way not sure how lighting are now but those year models are great!!!!!!

[bchbum]

Ultra made Lightings till at least 2002 , I bought one . I called J.W. to make sure it was a true Ultra . :cool: