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Hallett
09-25-2004, 09:25 PM
well guys it has started went to test the boat on friday and there checking
all boats for noise, anything over 90 decibels they will not let you on
the lake my boat was 93 at ten feet away he said i could test the boat
for that day only if a came back on saturday i could not put it in
this is a bunch of crap. the only ramp they were not at is site six.
i dont know about havasu springs. can they do this they said they
are not going to let up on this.

GlastronGuy
09-25-2004, 09:29 PM
Have you seen this? (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54217)

Hallett
09-25-2004, 09:38 PM
yes i saw that tread but i did not know they where checking at all the ramps they are at winsor to.

GlastronGuy
09-25-2004, 09:41 PM
I didn't know either. Just wanted to make sure you saw that one.

C-2
09-25-2004, 10:12 PM
To clarify, what ramps were you at?
thanks

Hallett
09-25-2004, 10:17 PM
To clarify, what ramps were you at?
thanks havasu marina. and winsor.

Rexone
09-25-2004, 10:53 PM
well guys it has started went to test the boat on friday and there checking
all boats for noise, anything over 90 decibels they will not let you on
the lake my boat was 93 at ten feet away he said i could test the boat
for that day only if a came back on saturday i could not put it in
this is a bunch of crap. the only ramp they were not at is site six.
i dont know about havasu springs. can they do this they said they
are not going to let up on this.
who is "they". Law enforcement or local hired rentaramp rangers?

dave186
09-25-2004, 11:02 PM
you boys should come up to Idaho, i gots buddies that run open headers all day long. i will be too shortly. my boat got safety inspected once this summer and it passed, no flame arrestor (velocity stack) and open exhaust. only reason it got inspected is we were in oregon and they like to pick on the out of staters.
i know my post doesnt pertain to you guys, im PWI thats all. :messedup:

Boatcop
09-26-2004, 06:40 AM
I'd like to know under what authority these people are checking boats for noise? Especially using a standard that isn't in compliance with Arizona Law, and won't be in place in California until 1/1/05.
Arizona and California is still governed by the 86db at 50 feet standard, so any other tests are not valid.
We can't do anything about California, but for clarification on the Arizona issue contact the Arizona Game and Fish Dept at 602-942-3000. Press Zero and ask for the Law Enforcement Branch.
I'm not sure what can be done about Lake Havasu Marina, since they are a private enterprise, and have the right to "Refuse Service to Anyone". Many have contacted State Land Department regarding them.
But for Public/Govt owned launching areas like Windsor, Cattail Cove, and Site Six, they would have to follow Arizona law, regarding noise levels and any other issues. You may want to contact Arizona State Parks in Phoenix, regarding issues with any of ther facilities.
Keep in mind that Government agencies don't care about such statements like, "I heard that....." or "My friend was......". Only call with first hand experiences, that you personally were denied access, or your boat was tested. Get the name of the person testing and/or refusing to let you launch, and have the exact date and time it happened, and any other circumstances.
Havasu Springs does not test any boats before launching, nor does any other launch area in La Paz County, such as on the Strip and Take-Off Point.

Hallett
09-26-2004, 06:48 AM
who is "they". Law enforcement or local hired rentaramp rangers? rent ramp rangers were doing the testing.

Havasu Hangin'
09-26-2004, 06:52 AM
rent ramp rangers were doing the testing.
The State Rangers at Windsor had db meters? How did they get 50' off your transom?

LakeRacer
09-26-2004, 06:55 AM
rent ramp rangers were doing the testing.
Hallet, please be as specific as possible. I would like for Boat Cop to check into this. Get names, name plates, badges, what time of day, uniforms, which ramp at Windsor etc. This is important.

Boatcop
09-26-2004, 07:04 AM
I would like for Boat Cop to check into this.
This is out of my jurisdiction, so there's nothing I could do. Contact the proper State, Lake Havasu City, or Mohave County Authorities on this.

Hallett
09-26-2004, 07:12 AM
art im going down to winsor in a while to find out more, all as i know
for now is they where testing on friday at winsor and havasu marina.
and the ramp ranger said they are going to keep testing. im not going
to put the boat in today but i am going to find out more

LakeRacer
09-26-2004, 07:14 AM
This is out of my jurisdiction, so there's nothing I could do. Contact the proper State, Lake Havasu City, or Mohave County Authorities on this.
Alan, I didn't mean that you could actually effect change...sorry. I was under the impression from your post that you were interested enough to make some phone calls. I was obviously reading to much into your post...again I'm sorry.
To Hallet, I would still like this information as it is important.
Alan, thanks for your suggestions on who to contact

LakeRacer
09-26-2004, 07:16 AM
art im going down to winsor in a while to find out more, all as i know
for now is they where testing on friday at winsor and havasu marina.
and the ramp ranger said they are going to keep testing. im not going
to put the boat in today but i am going to find out more
Thanks for your help.

MsDrmr
09-26-2004, 07:26 AM
I am not trying to be sarcastic here, but what is the difference in 3 decimals? would it hurt to lower it so that it is acceptable to them (if that is where you do most of your boating). :confused:

TCHB
09-26-2004, 08:17 AM
Ok if this thing sticks can most of the high performance boats make the limits??
How much does it cost to modify the boat to meet the new laws?

Bob Hostetter
09-26-2004, 08:40 AM
We have had several customers come to the shop over the last week and tell us that they are being turned away at the launch ramps on Havasu after being checked for exhaust DB violations. Most were allowed to launch the first day after being issued a warning but were refused the rest of the weekend. Please keep in mind this is all second hand information. Also we are have already gotten boats in for muffler retro fit's.
We are currently using the Rex Marine bolt on mufflers that replace the standard thru transom exhaust tips. It is not a cheap solution but they seem to work pretty good. We will know more after we get several boats out there running them and can make a reasonable comparison in top end mph with and without the mufflers.
My personal concern is more towards what the flatbottom and jet crowd is going to have to do. It is going to be interesting to see how we are going to hang a muffler off the end of a set of open headers.I am presently looking at a couple of muffler systems being used by Sprint Car racers to see if I can make them work. We will have to run them without water but..........
There is also going to be some problems with some of the older boats with thru transom exhaust that aren't using the current 4" systems. Some of these conversations are going to cost a couple of thousand dollars, on boats that only cost a couple of thousand dollars.

Rexone
09-26-2004, 08:49 AM
I am not trying to be sarcastic here, but what is the difference in 3 decimals? would it hurt to lower it so that it is acceptable to them (if that is where you do most of your boating). :confused:
The difference is huge, roughly about half the noise as decibles are measured on a logrithmic scale.

Havasu Hangin'
09-26-2004, 08:54 AM
The difference is huge, roughly about half the noise as decibles are measured on a logrithmic scale.
Since Rex mufflers are for 4" tips only, I think Rex is discriminating against us 5" guys.
I think it's lawsuit time! If the tip doesn't fit...we must be sh!t!

phebus
09-26-2004, 08:55 AM
Rexone, what is the best option out there for someone that doesn't have the option of using your new mufflers? I don't have clearance for the 8" length of the new mufflers. Are there any in-line systems that work worth a darn?

phebus
09-26-2004, 08:59 AM
Since Rex mufflers are for 4" tips only, I think Rex is discriminating against us 5" guys.
I think it's lawsuit time! If the tip doesn't fit...we must sh!t!
No, lawsuits are for pussy's. Do the manly thing, and park your rig in front of his shop, and have all your friends take turns posting on one of their computers about how screwed you have goten.
Come on, nut up!!! :D :D :D

Rexone
09-26-2004, 09:15 AM
Rexone, what is the best option out there for someone that doesn't have the option of using your new mufflers? I don't have clearance for the 8" length of the new mufflers. Are there any in-line systems that work worth a darn?
None that I'm aware of that won't use significant power up on a healthy motor. :(
HH the clamp on has developed into a problem for us because of the weight of our muffler at 10+ pounds we are very concerned that the clamp on may start breaking thru transom exhaust pipes off or cracking them. Therefore I have that work we were doing on hold until we decide on a direction to go with it. I do know that many of the boat manufacturers are now going away from thru transom type pipes because of many breakage related problems (even on mega motors). Just food for thought.

Havasu Hangin'
09-26-2004, 09:18 AM
HH the clamp on has developed into a problem for us because of the weight of our muffler at 10+ pounds we are very concerned that the clamp on may start breaking thru transom exhaust pipes off or cracking them. Therefore I have that work we were doing on hold until we decide on a direction to go with it. I do know that many of the boat manufacturers are now going away from thru transom type pipes because of many breakage related problems (even on mega motors). Just food for thought.
My pipes are welded onto my Gil exhausts...and I currently have Imco slip-in mufflers. If I make a change, there's gonna be welding involved...
Do you guys have Rex fuel fills for inside the engine compartment, too? :idea:

Rexone
09-26-2004, 09:22 AM
Do you guys have Rex fuel fills for inside the engine compartment, too? :idea:
Yes but we only sell them to individuals with multiple screen names and no common sense. So sorry you don't presently qualify.
We include a leaky funnel with each set too.

Boatcop
09-26-2004, 09:28 AM
Just so everyone knows where I stand on this issue.
I'm all for enforcing the laws as written, but also giving the individual Officer a little discretion on how they enfoce them. As long as that discretion goes the way of the boaters, and not stricter than what the legislature or the AZGFD Commission has allowed.
From what I understand, through this forum and others, is that a private entity, ie Havas Marina, and individual Parks, ie. Windsor, are arbitrarily placing their own rules in force.
Havasu Marina may have legal grounds to do this, as a private facility. However The State Parks cannot make up rules, unless passed by the State Parks Board, or under State law, as passed by the Arizona Legislature.
Lake Havasu City and/or Mohave County also does not have the authority to pass ordinances in opposition to what state law says.
Now if a boat has no muffling device installed, they are in violation, no matter what the noise level is, and can and should be excluded from the water.
But noise level enforcement that does not comply with State Law and AZGFD Commission Rules cannot legally be upheld.

blueman
09-26-2004, 10:24 AM
Cool !!!!...someone has finally a come up with a solution to unsightly fuel fills on the outside of my boat ?

Havasu Cig
09-26-2004, 10:45 AM
Just for clarification are you saying that the park rangers at Windsor were testing boats or just the Havasu Marina? If the rangers at Windsor are doing this they must comply with testing standards like Boatcop said.

Hallett
09-26-2004, 10:58 AM
update i spent some time today checking out winsor and they are not
going to check for noise until the first of the year they say the funding
is not there. they did test a few boats on friday. thats what i was told
and thats all i know.

Havasu Cig
09-26-2004, 11:23 AM
I will have to make sure and bring my video camera with me. If they check me at Windsor and it is not in compliance with state law I will send a copy of the tape to the state.
The screwed up thing is I have mufflers on my boat but I get hassled because of the way it looks. If this continues Havasu is going to bite off the hand that feeds them. Thank god I bought a boat I can use in ocean as well as the lake. :rolleyes:

UnionJack
09-26-2004, 11:28 AM
I need to find some

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
09-26-2004, 11:40 AM
I will have to make sure and bring my video camera with me. If they check me at Windsor and it is not in compliance with state law I will send a copy of the tape to the state.
The screwed up thing is I have mufflers on my boat but I get hassled because of the way it looks. If this continues Havasu is going to bite off the hand that feeds them. Thank god I bought a boat I can use in ocean as well as the lake. :rolleyes:
I hear you on that

Boatcop
09-26-2004, 11:44 AM
I'd be interested to see how Windsor is going to check boats for noise, using the 86db @ 50' standard in place in Arizona.
Isn't there a No wake area around Windsor launch that extends out further than 50'?

framer1
09-26-2004, 01:41 PM
What are our options? You know nobody going to stop going to Havasu, are there any good products that lower the noise but does not hurt performance. If so what are they and who installs them :yuk:

El Toro-BGA
09-26-2004, 03:09 PM
I was told to tell the dock guy with the decibel meter that all the boats around where they are testing needed to be turned off. If other boats have their engines running, it causes the decibel meter to read higher. If you ask them this, it is almost impossible to make them turn off all the boats engines. They may just tell you to go ahead and come back at a later time or the next day without issuing a warning.

Ion
09-26-2004, 04:02 PM
havasu marina. and winsor.
Just came in from the lake. Launched and re-trailered at Windsor and there was noone doing noise tests at either ramp. Maybe they only did this on sat???

Boatcop
09-26-2004, 04:07 PM
If other boats have their engines running, it causes the decibel meter to read higher.
Not true.
Decibel meters only read the loudest sound detected. Background noise or other boats would not afffect any readings, unless they're louder than the target.
As long as the target is just 1 db louder than ambient noise, it's a true reading.

Boatcop
09-26-2004, 04:15 PM
I am not trying to be sarcastic here, but what is the difference in 3 decimals?
Noise level doubles for every 3 decibel rise. 89db is twice as loud as 86db. 92 twice as loud as 89db. etc.....
It also is reduced by 1/2 for every 50 feet away from the target. Noise level of 86 db @ 100 feet = 89db @ 50 feet.
All readings are on the "A" weighted scale.

Rexone
09-26-2004, 05:21 PM
if the AZ LAW says measured at 50', how do they think there going to measure it while your on the water, with water movement and other boats, i don't think they can do it acurately. the only way to do it would be to have a 50' tape attached to the back of your boat and the nose of a patrol boat, that might be a true 50'.
On of the precise reasons California abondoned the J34 testing procedure (the 50 foot method) in favor of the more easy to administer J2005 & J1970 SAE procedures for testing noise.

MsDrmr
09-26-2004, 05:28 PM
Noise level doubles for every 3 decibel rise. 89db is twice as loud as 86db. 92 twice as loud as 89db. etc.....
It also is reduced by 1/2 for every 50 feet away from the target. Noise level of 86 db @ 100 feet = 89db @ 50 feet.
All readings are on the "A" weighted scale.
What I meant to ask is, what does that mean to the power of the boat, or is this simply a noise thing?

Rexone
09-26-2004, 05:43 PM
What I meant to ask is, what does that mean to the power of the boat, or is this simply a noise thing?
That is a function of silencer effenciency. How much noise can it supress on a given engine without losing power. That is the big issue. Bottom line is its infinately easier to supress to 88 dBA that it is to 85 dBA (which in theory is half the noise of 88). Does that explain?

Havasu Hangin'
09-26-2004, 05:52 PM
As long as the target is just 1 db louder than ambient noise, it's a true reading.
Aren't reflected sound waves adding to the noise level? I think I was sober enough one day in my physics class to remember that...

THOR
09-26-2004, 05:55 PM
Aren't reflected sound waves adding to the noise level? I think I was sober enough one day in my physics class to remember that...
Not really HH. The gun will pick up the most 'salient' noise there that would be the loudest.

Havasu Hangin'
09-26-2004, 06:00 PM
Not really HH. The gun will pick up the most 'salient' noise there that would be the loudest.
Wouldn't it depend on the wavelength of the sound?

Mr.Havasu
09-26-2004, 06:33 PM
What are our options? You know nobody going to stop going to Havasu, are there any good products that lower the noise but does not hurt performance. If so what are they and who installs them :yuk:
I think they want all of us in a pontoon.

Boatcop
09-26-2004, 06:40 PM
Wouldn't it depend on the wavelength of the sound?
Which is why the "A" scale is used. It most approximates the frequency of human hearing, which is what we're all talking about anyway.
Higher frequencies, such as what dogs might hear, would register on a different scale, using different devices.

That Guy
09-26-2004, 06:45 PM
I heard this yesterday while sitting for the group on the water picture at the Advantage Regatta. Most of the Advantage owners were turned away at the marina launch ramp and those that were allowed to launch were told to never come back. Then one of the Advantage owners told me that someone had smacked one of the ramp rangers...anyone hear this???? Also heard that someone launched anyway and they called the police to chase him down on the water. This has gotten ridiculous. Everyone and I mean everyone needs to get involved and write a letter, contribute money, whatever. WE ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT SIT BACK AND DO NOTHING!!! Even if you don't launch at the Marina, please get involved and help this very important cause.

Havasu Hangin'
09-26-2004, 07:04 PM
Which is why the "A" scale is used. It most approximates the frequency of human hearing, which is what we're all talking about anyway.
Higher frequencies, such as what dogs might hear, would register on a different scale, using different devices.
Gotcha.
My memory is really fuzzy these days, but I seem to remember that the same physics that allow for sound cancelation can work in reverse (if the waves were reflected at the right distance) allowing for a db increase.
For example...start you car and listen. Then, start your car next to a wall. Which is louder? I think the wall because you are actually hearing the same waves twice?
Like I said...I slept through most of that stuff...so I really don't know.

jenndon
09-26-2004, 08:46 PM
I have a question. I have an Eliminator 220 Eagle XP with a 454 MPI. My exhaust exits underwater when i'm not on plane. I should be ok right?
Thanks

That Guy
09-26-2004, 10:18 PM
ttt

amw
09-26-2004, 10:49 PM
hey union jack when is your boat going to imco mine is gonna go this is crazy ill be there for the poker run you going

Kilrtoy
09-26-2004, 10:51 PM
Then one of the Advantage owners told me that someone had smacked one of the ramp rangers.
What a jackass, that is like smacking the guy at burger king , because he charges you for Extra bacon on your burger.....

Essex502
09-27-2004, 07:36 AM
I heard this yesterday while sitting for the group on the water picture at the Advantage Regatta. Most of the Advantage owners were turned away at the marina launch ramp and those that were allowed to launch were told to never come back. Then one of the Advantage owners told me that someone had smacked one of the ramp rangers...anyone hear this???? Also heard that someone launched anyway and they called the police to chase him down on the water. This has gotten ridiculous. Everyone and I mean everyone needs to get involved and write a letter, contribute money, whatever. WE ABSOLUTELY MUST NOT SIT BACK AND DO NOTHING!!! Even if you don't launch at the Marina, please get involved and help this very important cause.
Our friends refused to put their boat back on the trailer once they were in the water but no police tried to chase them down since no laws were broken. They had Rex Marine mufflers and the reading on my decibel meter and the Ramp Ranger's at Lake Havasu Marina was 87/88 db(A) at their arbitrary 10' measuring distance.

Essex502
09-27-2004, 07:38 AM
I have a question. I have an Eliminator 220 Eagle XP with a 454 MPI. My exhaust exits underwater when i'm not on plane. I should be ok right?
Thanks
You probably will pass the B.S. test that Lake Havasu Marina is using. My boat with a 502 MAG MPI also exits completely under water at idle and it measures 84 db(A) at 39" (CA 2005 std.). Yours should be pretty close.

That Guy
09-27-2004, 07:40 AM
Then one of the Advantage owners told me that someone had smacked one of the ramp rangers.
What a jackass, that is like smacking the guy at burger king , because he charges you for Extra bacon on your burger.....
First of all, I don't factually even know that this happened. Kilrtoy, if it did happen, it is of course wrong. However, your burger king analogy isn't quite the same because in this case people with legal boats are arbitrarily being denied access to the lake. It isn't about being charged extra or killing the messenger, these guys are completely out of hand. Take a look at Havasu Dreamin's post and you will see what I mean. We have a major problem on our hands that is getting worse every weekend. I hate to think of what next summer will look like.....

Havasu_Dreamin
09-27-2004, 07:45 AM
This is a copy of my post under two other threads here on HB. Both threads deal with noise level testing at Lake Havasu Marina and the fact that a legal boat was banned.
First off I want to provide some background. We have a boat with Mercury Racings 525 motor. Since we knew that the noise laws were coming we decided to put some type of muffling device on. I contacted Rex Marine and asked them if they were interested in using our boat as a test boat since it’s a fairly stout motor and is bone-stock. Rex Marine agreed. We spent the better part of an entire day at Lake Elsinore with a representative from Rex Marine testing the boat with the stock exhaust to get a baseline, testing with the proto-type to see what the difference was in the decibel (db) readings from stock exhaust to prototype. We then put on the actual Rex Marine Silencers to compare the db readings to stock exhaust, prototype Silencers, and then the real Silencers. All of these tests were conducted per the new CA law that goes into effect on January 1, 2005 which is more restrictive than the AZ law. For a refresher, the law in AZ is 86 db at 50 ft at any throttle position, of which idle is one. The new law in CA is 88 db at 39” back from the transom and 4’ up from the waterline. Both the prototype silencer and the finished product version of the Silencers brought our db readings down to 88 dbs.
On Saturday September 25, 2004 we drove from our house in Lake Havasu to the Lake Havasu Marina knowing full well that we would probably be stopped and asked to be tested. We thought fine, we have the new Rex Marine Silencers which we KNOW meet the more restrictive CA law. Upon arrival at the Marina I was asked by an employee of the marina if we have been tested, I explain yes we have silencers installed that meet the CA law that goes into effect on January1, 2005. The employee asked if I had been tested at the marina to which I responded no. The employee proceeds to tell me that I have to be tested or I will not be allowed to launch. Keep in mind this is after I have already paid my launch fee.
We proceed to the launch area and are then asked if we have been tested by yet another employee of Lake Havasu Marina. I again explain the situation as described above about having the Rex Marne Silencers. This employee asks if they can take a look at them on the back of the boat. I tell the employee sure, no problem. The employee looks at them and then tells me, you’re good, just go to lane 3 and launch when it is cleared.
I proceed over to lane 3 as instructed by the employee of Lake Havasu Marina. The Ramp Ranger then says to the employee who told me I was good that I need to be tested no matter what. I say fine, again, knowing that we meet the more restrictive CA law.
I back the boat down into the water, with my dad at the helm, of lane 1 and disconnect it from the trailer. The Ramp Ranger, that’s what the nametag on his shirt said, then proceeds to walk ~10 ft back, not a true measured distance, just 3 steps from the back of the boat. The Ramp Ranger asks my dad to start it up which he does. The Ramp Ranger then begins to point his db meter at the back of the boat. While the Ramp Ranger is doing this a friend of mine who had already launched is standing right next to the Ramp Ranger with his own db meter. My friend proceeds to ask the Ramp Ranger if he has the db meter set to slow response, per the AZ law, the Ramp Ranger says “no” and hastily makes changes to the switches/dials on the db meter. The Ramp Ranger again points the db meter at the transom with my friend still there. My friend then asks the Ramp Ranger if he has the db meter set to the “A” scale, as per the AZ law, as opposed to the “C” scale. The Ramp Ranger replies “no” and again hastily makes changes to the switches/dials on his db meter. The Ramp Ranger is now pointing his db meter at the transom and the db’s are bouncing between 87 and 88 dbs, the same readings, within a db of my friends meter. The Ramp Ranger also proceeded to tell my dad that they had just gotten the db meter on Friday, lots of formal training I’m sure. The Ramp Ranger then proceeds to tell us that we can not launch and that we need to put the boat back on the trailer.
Both my dad and I inform the Ramp Ranger that the boat has Rex Marine Silencers installed that meet the more restrictive CA law of 88 db’s at 39” We also inform the Ramp Ranger that the law in the State of Arizona is 86 dbs at 50 ft. The Ramp Ranger proceeds to tell us that no, the law in Arizona is 86 db at 50 ft at Wide Open Throttle (WOT). We again inform the Ramp Ranger he is wrong in what the State Law is. He says “it does not matter and that we need to put the boat back on the trailer”, keep in mind the boat is now, and has been the whole time, floating. I proceed to tell the Ramp Ranger that I am not putting the boat back on the trailer as I am floating and they have no jurisdiction over the water. The Ramp Ranger then states, “put it back on the trailer or I will call my manager”, I tell the Ramp Ranger to call his Manager.
The manager, (I do not believe that it was Jeff that everyone refers to), proceeds to come over and I extend my hand to shake his hand, which he refused to do. The Manager then proceeds to raise his voice and ask me “What part of 86 decibels do you not understand?” in front of a crowd of at least 5-10 other boat owners waiting to launch/be tested. I reply to the manager that I understand 86 dbs but the law in the State of Arizona is 86 dbs at 50 ft, not the ~10 ft that the Ramp Ranger was taking the measurement at. The manager then tells me “I don’t care what the State Law is, these are the Lake Havasu Marina Laws and we make the laws around here and the law here is 86 dbs.” The Manager goes on to say that “This is private property and we can do whatever we want to. The State can not tell a private business how to run its business.” I inform the manager that I know for a fact that the Marina resides on State of Arizona owned land that the Marina leases from the State as a Sub-concessionaire, they do not own land which means it is not private property. I ask the Manager if he knows if he is in violation of Arizona law, that is the noise law, and he responds again with “I don’t care what the State Law is”.
The Manager then proceeds to tell me that we either put the boat back on the trailer or he will call the Police and have them come and arrest us. I tell him that we are on the water and he has no jurisdiction on the water and go ahead and call the Police. I then proceed to tell my dad to just take the boat out to Thompson Bay. The Manager then looks at my dad and says, “Are you going to leave your tow vehicle here, if so we’ll take real good care of it” In a very sarcastic and threatening tone. I ask the Manager if that is a threat. He says “No, we’ll just watch it real close for you” again in a very sarcastic and threatening tone. I again ask the Manager if that is a threat, he responded again with no. I tell him, well it sounded like a threat to me. And the crowd that had gathered around said they agreed.
I tell my dad to head over to Windsor and I’ll tow the trailer over there and we will just retrieve from there. The Manager then proceeds to find out the AZ numbers on the boat and told the Ramp Ranger that we are banned from ever coming back to the Marina, (for what I do not know since we MEET THE ARIZONA LAW). The Manager also directs the Ramp Ranger to take the tow vehicle license plate and the trailer plate. I proceed to tell the Ramp Ranger both.
So, we have a launch ramp that sits on leased State land and the contract for the lease states that they must provide a public launch ramp for the boating public to use. I received a response from the Arizona State Land Department to the previous letter that I wrote requesting action regarding the Marina and it’s actions, The letter stated that the sub-concessionaire “…is without authority to restrict public use, without good cause, of the marina to launch water craft” Where is the good cause in what I have described above?
For all of you that think it won’t happen to you, it will. This needs to be fought because what the Marina is doing is wrong and totally arbitrary. Who is the Marina, as a non-law enforcement agency, to restrict a certain boater from launching at their facility? The Marina does not make the laws in the State of Arizona. The Marina can not come up with its own “Lake Havasu Marina Laws” as the Manager said they have. The Marina has absolutely no right to prevent us from launching again nor do they even have the right to conduct decibel meter tests on launching boats.
EVERYONE NEEDS TO GET INVOLVED IN THIS! WHAT THE MARINA IS DOING IS NOT RIGHT! THIS IMPACTS US ALL!

H20Advantage
09-27-2004, 08:56 AM
Have the Boat manufacturers in Havasu made any type of response to this.
Besides the boats they are producing are being banned for noise how about the size limitation the marina has placed on boats (32'). I know those boat builders make some major cha ching on the bigger boats also.
If people don't come to Havasu to boat there will be less there to shop for a boat.
Also how much profit is LHM losing from all of these bans. Maybe if they were starving a little more they would be less likely to impose their OWN LAWS on the rest of us who are supporting their lifestyles.

robt
09-27-2004, 09:13 AM
here is what i can do to help you all out if you want i posted it in another thread also but i see this one is getting more looks
I'm no where near you all but i do have a way t help you all out if you all can get me what i need :
1) will Rex marine be willing to install there stuff on someone elses boat and test it to make sure it is legal if they are we need a boat that has not gotten banned from the marina and looks like they would get turned away from them after the test is for sure within the laws the said boat needs to be launched from there and video is a must have if they turn this boat away i can get you all some network time and with this it should be enough to force the state to act
2) i have a paper that will need to be given to each person that is on the video after the video is shot if you can get them to sign it great then they might be contacted for an interview if they refuse thats is fine also we will just have to black out there face (I will have to do some checking since this is a public ramp this step may not be needed
3) anyone that has had a problem at the ramp that is willing to go on tv i will need your info if your boat is not within the law or you are not sure please do not step forward as it will only hurt the cause
if you all are willing to do the leg work i will help you out so just pm me when you make your minds up
on another note i will be honest i will make a small amount of $$$ doing this but it will be paid by my contact at nbc not by any of you and rex marine will get free tv time so they will do this im sure there is no promise that they will air this program but it fits the mold for stuff i have given them before
any ??? pm me
Thanks Rob

MRS FLYIN VEE
09-27-2004, 09:15 AM
We have never launched at the marina. :smile: and we need the silencer things..

Essex502
09-27-2004, 09:20 AM
Have the Boat manufacturers in Havasu made any type of response to this.
Besides the boats they are producing are being banned for noise how about the size limitation the marina has placed on boats (32'). I know those boat builders make some major cha ching on the bigger boats also.
If people don't come to Havasu to boat there will be less there to shop for a boat.
Also how much profit is LHM losing from all of these bans. Maybe if they were starving a little more they would be less likely to impose their OWN LAWS on the rest of us who are supporting their lifestyles.
So far the builders don't seem to be interested in taking this to the next level (for them) by writing letters to the state. I don't know why but rumour has it they don't want to jeopordize their relationships - what they may be - with the LH Marina. Own business owner told one of our group that he couldn't get involve or he'd lose his priviledges to launch there and his business depends alot on being able to. This is hearsay but from a reputable, reliable source.

H20Advantage
09-27-2004, 09:32 AM
Own business owner told one of our group that he couldn't get involve or he'd lose his priviledges to launch there and his business depends alot on being able to. This is hearsay but from a reputable, reliable source.
Yeah but do they let him launch anything over 32' and unmuffled or are they (LHM) using a double standard.

Essex502
09-27-2004, 09:39 AM
Yeah but do they let him launch anything over 32' and unmuffled or are they (LHM) using a double standard.
His boat wouldn't be a problem - he's afraid of retaliation...his business uses the marina for launching. He's also somewhat in power in the city but is "afraid" of the Marina and it's power. This is downright WRONG!

HavasuDreamin'
09-27-2004, 09:56 AM
The screwed up thing is I have mufflers on my boat but I get hassled because of the way it looks. If this continues Havasu is going to bite off the hand that feeds them.
IMHO, that is what they are trying to do. I think they are using the exhaust issue as one way to weed out some of the ***boaters "that cause all the trouble" (as they see it). My guess is the city council and local politicians get an ear full from the full time citizens after every weekend and certainly after every weekend when accidents occur. The full time citizens/politicians/council are tired of all the bad publicity, lines, congestion, accidents, fights, trash left behind, etc. and will try to take their town back.
The thing is, the citizens are there to fight the fight every day (if they need to), and the ***boaters aren't. Also, the citizens whine to the politicians who can do something about it instead of voicing their frustration on a message board which gets you no where. For the ***boaters to beat this, they will have to band together and go to the proper authorities. Even then it is an uphill battle.
I am not saying any of this is right........but having been a river rat since '74, this is the way I see it. I see Havasu as the next Palm Springs........major crack down every where possible to weed out the unwanted.
Good Luck.

Havasu Cig
09-27-2004, 10:12 AM
It's funny you should use the Palm Springs analogy. My neighbor in LHC said the exact same thing. :frown:

That Guy
09-27-2004, 01:39 PM
ttt...Stay with us on this :p

prosthogod
09-27-2004, 02:00 PM
I know this friend talked about helping with his contact at NBC, and that is great, but what about the phoenix "3 on your side". You know the local phoenix news chanels investigative reports. Does anybody have contact there?

roostwear
09-27-2004, 02:17 PM
Sounds like all prospective new boat buyers in LHC should test drive on the LHM ramp with a meter before they buy. :rolleyes:

jenndon
09-27-2004, 10:57 PM
Thanks for the reply Essex

NOTALENT
09-28-2004, 06:03 AM
what would happen if someone were to be at the launch ramp, and they were being denied because of the loudness..we already know they are not testing according to AZ laws..so what if that person were to have a copy of the law with them and called the cops while they were there??? would they be able to step in and enforce anything???

Essex502
09-28-2004, 06:36 AM
what would happen if someone were to be at the launch ramp, and they were being denied because of the loudness..we already know they are not testing according to AZ laws..so what if that person were to have a copy of the law with them and called the cops while they were there??? would they be able to step in and enforce anything???
Probably not as the Marina isn't breaking a law but breaking the terms of their contract with the State to operate a PUBLIC LAUNCH RAMP. I don't think this is a legal issue but a civil issue UNTIL the Marina violates a court order to provide launch facilities to ALL the BOATING public.

NOTALENT
09-28-2004, 06:51 AM
Probably not as the Marina isn't breaking a law but breaking the terms of their contract with the State to operate a PUBLIC LAUNCH RAMP. I don't think this is a legal issue but a civil issue UNTIL the Marina violates a court order to provide launch facilities to ALL the BOATING public.
what about at windsor?? or the other launches stated?

H20Advantage
09-28-2004, 07:03 AM
What's next for the Marina rules are they going to deny gas sales to those who don't pass there tests. :hammerhea

OGShocker
09-28-2004, 07:09 AM
I think they want all of us in a pontoon.
This works well for John's plan then! :220v:

Havasu Hangin'
09-28-2004, 07:15 AM
What's next for the Marina rules are they going to deny gas sales to those who don't pass there tests. :hammerhea
No gas for you! Come back...one year!
http://users.aol.com/rynocub/soup.jpg

cdog
09-28-2004, 07:22 AM
They checked me. I was at 88.6 Dec. The rent a ranger said I could go this time but may not pass next time. That was on sunday, on saturday I pointed out my imco mufflers and they let me by the line of everyone beeing tested. OG Shocker I saw you a couple of times out there, right after I launched at the marina on saturday and at the sandbar but did'nt know witch one you were. There was a local with a Cat testing for exhaust dec. on sunday before me and he was at 90 dec. The rent a ranger would'nt let him launch and he was pissed. I guess they own a vaca home there and were really suprised to be treated that way.

H20Advantage
09-28-2004, 07:27 AM
No gas for you! Come back...one year!
http://users.aol.com/rynocub/soup.jpg
Everything always comes back to Seinfeld......The RAMP NAZI's :sqeyes:

Havasu_Dreamin
09-28-2004, 08:13 AM
They checked me. I was at 88.6 Dec. The rent a ranger said I could go this time but may not pass next time. That was on sunday, on saturday I pointed out my imco mufflers and they let me by the line of everyone beeing tested. OG Shocker I saw you a couple of times out there, right after I launched at the marina on saturday and at the sandbar but did'nt know witch one you were. There was a local with a Cat testing for exhaust dec. on sunday before me and he was at 90 dec. The rent a ranger would'nt let him launch and he was pissed. I guess they own a vaca home there and were really suprised to be treated that way.
See, this is a perfect example of the inconsistency of the Marina's policy. I explained to an employee of the Marina that we had Rex Marine Silencers, did not matter still needed to be tested. We bounced bewteen 87 and 88 dbs, lower than you, and we were told to leave and to not ever come back. How is that treating each boater equally?

Magic34
09-28-2004, 08:21 AM
I personally have not been stopped for this. I know my boat would not pass the test. I have read almost every post regarding the Havasu Marina and related topics such as this one. I am now at the point where one thing comes to mind............
F Havasu----F Havasu-----F Havasu :mad:
Every time we come there, we spend a minimum of $1500 for 2-3 days. I am not getting rid of my boat, so they can screw off. :angry2:
Hopefully, Parker is a little easier on boats such as mine, but I have no problem at this point never going to the river again.
They are making it sooooo hard to spend money there. Smart people elected in that city :confused:
I would write a letter in a heartbeat, but none of these issues/problems have been first hand for me. I have never been turned away, screamed at, nor tested. Writing a letter on second hand info is pointless.

Havasu_Dreamin
09-28-2004, 08:44 AM
R12-4-516. Watercraft Sound Level Restriction
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to operate a
watercraft upon the waters of this state under any
condition or in any manner that the watercraft
emits a sound level in excess of 86 decibels on the
“A” weighted scale when measured from a distance
of 50 feet or more from the watercraft.
B. This Section shall not apply to watercraft operated
under permits issued in accordance to A.R.S. § 5-
336(C).
The above can be found on page 154 of the following link http://www.gf.state.az.us/pdfs/inside_azgfd/all_azgfd_laws.pdf

That Guy
09-28-2004, 10:01 AM
I personally have not been stopped for this. I know my boat would not pass the test. I have read almost every post regarding the Havasu Marina and related topics such as this one. I am now at the point where one thing comes to mind............
F Havasu----F Havasu-----F Havasu :mad:
Every time we come there, we spend a minimum of $1500 for 2-3 days. I am not getting rid of my boat, so they can screw off. :angry2:
Hopefully, Parker is a little easier on boats such as mine, but I have no problem at this point never going to the river again.
They are making it sooooo hard to spend money there. Smart people elected in that city :confused:
I would write a letter in a heartbeat, but none of these issues/problems have been first hand for me. I have never been turned away, screamed at, nor tested. Writing a letter on second hand info is pointless.
Magic: I understand your frustration but disagree with you about writing a letter. When I wrote my first letters, I had not had a bad experience either. Most of my experiences with the Marina had been actually pretty pleasant. However, I wrote as a concerned boat owner to have someone look into the Marina's apparent arbitrary and I am guessing illegal practices. Now, having been denied the opportunity to launch, I am writing a second round of letters. Please take the time to get involved since this directly or indirectly impacts all of us. Thanks....

Magic34
09-28-2004, 10:14 AM
Magic: I understand your frustration but disagree with you about writing a letter. When I wrote my first letters, I had not had a bad experience either. Most of my experiences with the Marina had been actually pretty pleasant. However, I wrote as a concerned boat owner to have someone look into the Marina's apparent arbitrary and I am guessing illegal practices. Now, having been denied the opportunity to launch, I am writing a second round of letters. Please take the time to get involved since this directly or indirectly impacts all of us. Thanks....
I have since changed my thought process on this and I am writing a letter as we speak.

That Guy
09-28-2004, 10:17 AM
I have since changed my thought process on this and I am writing a letter as we speak.
Rock on brother...thanks for the help. Please encourage others to join in as well. :D :D :D Next cold one is on me....

Essex502
09-28-2004, 11:19 AM
what about at windsor?? or the other launches stated?
The noise ordinances have been on the books in virtually every state in the country but not uniformly enforced due to the difficulty in using the 50' test outlined in the SAE J34 standard that most states use or used to use. That's why the state of California is using the new SAE J2005 standard beginning January 1, 2005 to make a uniform, simple test available to Law Enforcement to use to determine whether or not a boat violates a noise law. The California test is much mor stringent than the Arizona test in my opinion since Arizona simply states you cannot exceed 86 db(A) at a distance of 50'. This test can only be performed in an area free from obstructions that can reflect and amplify noise (not a marina). Test under J34 is difficult to perform accurately.
Having said the above...there is pressure from many areas to test boats for noise compliance. Some folks on this board have said that, at least, at Windsor launch ramp that testing was being performed last Friday. Take this as a fact of life from this point onwards. It isn't going away. I wish it would because I love the sound of a big block screaming!

Essex502
09-28-2004, 11:22 AM
I have since changed my thought process on this and I am writing a letter as we speak.
Thanks for your support with this effort. If you don't mind - spread the word to our brethren that aren't on the boards but also boat in Havasu.

phebus
09-28-2004, 11:37 AM
I think one of the best things boater's could do, would be to try and comply with the noise laws. Then it would be a much more valid issue to make those that enforce it, stick to a valid test. When someone shows up at the Marina or anywhere else with a boat that is well above the standards and attempts to launch, it only hurts the cause, rather than help it. I am pissed at the way the noise laws are trying to be enforced, and will do everything I can to get valid testing, but I also accept the fact that we need to do our part to protect our passion.

Havasu_Dreamin
09-28-2004, 11:52 AM
I think one of the best things boater's could do, would be to try and comply with the noise laws. Then it would be a much more valid issue to make those that enforce it, stick to a valid test. When someone shows up at the Marina or anywhere else with a boat that is well above the standards and attempts to launch, it only hurts the cause, rather than help it. I am pissed at the way the noise laws are trying to be enforced, and will do everything I can to get valid testing, but I also accept the fact that we need to do our part to protect our passion.
That's what we did, we had Rex Marine Silencers installed and we meet the more restrictive CA law and we were still banned beasue we do not meet the Marina's arbitrary and inconsistently enforced rule.

Essex502
09-28-2004, 12:06 PM
I think one of the best things boater's could do, would be to try and comply with the noise laws. Then it would be a much more valid issue to make those that enforce it, stick to a valid test. When someone shows up at the Marina or anywhere else with a boat that is well above the standards and attempts to launch, it only hurts the cause, rather than help it. I am pissed at the way the noise laws are trying to be enforced, and will do everything I can to get valid testing, but I also accept the fact that we need to do our part to protect our passion.
Phebus...
The AZ standard of 86 db(A) at 50' is not hard to pass with any muffling system. For instance, my 502 MAG MPI with 4" unmuffled, thru transom exhaust that exits underwater reads 84 db(A) at idle from 39" away. This would easily be in the 70's from 50' away! Havasu Dreamin's HP525 was 98 db(A) on Rex Marine's meter BEFORE installing the mufflers and 88 db(A) - again at 39" away AFTER installation. These are easily legal per the 50' test specified in the AZ law. This was a legal - by both state's standards - boat.

phebus
09-28-2004, 12:40 PM
Phebus...
The AZ standard of 86 db(A) at 50' is not hard to pass with any muffling system. For instance, my 502 MAG MPI with 4" unmuffled, thru transom exhaust that exits underwater reads 84 db(A) at idle from 39" away. This would easily be in the 70's from 50' away! Havasu Dreamin's HP525 was 98 db(A) on Rex Marine's meter BEFORE installing the mufflers and 88 db(A) - again at 39" away AFTER installation. These are easily legal per the 50' test specified in the AZ law. This was a legal - by both state's standards - boat.
Havasu Dreamin and Essex 502, I applaud what you have done. My comments were meant for those that are complaining about the way the Marina is enforcing the law, yet aren't even close to the standards of the new law. My thoughts were that if we are demanding the Marina comply to the standards of the law, that we as boaters do our best to comply with the law.

NOTALENT
09-28-2004, 12:52 PM
Havasu Dreamin and Essex 502, I applaud what you have done. My comments were meant for those that are complaining about the way the Marina is enforcing the law, yet aren't even close to the standards of the new law. My thoughts were that if we are demanding the Marina comply to the standards of the law, that we as boaters do our best to comply with the law.
Thats just it...they are not enforcing the law...they are going over and beyond the law/lease..otherwise barley anyone would get denied..and there would be no problem. But when u get these boat NAZI's Out there...Dictating who's is able to launch or not, That's when we get upset. If the complied with the lease..there would be no problem.

Havasu_Dreamin
09-28-2004, 12:56 PM
Havasu Dreamin and Essex 502, I applaud what you have done. My comments were meant for those that are complaining about the way the Marina is enforcing the law, yet aren't even close to the standards of the new law. My thoughts were that if we are demanding the Marina comply to the standards of the law, that we as boaters do our best to comply with the law.
Good deal!

phebus
09-28-2004, 01:17 PM
Thats just it...they are not enforcing the law...they are going over and beyond the law/lease..otherwise barley anyone would get denied..and there would be no problem. But when u get these boat NAZI's Out there...Dictating who's is able to launch or not, That's when we get upset. If the complied with the lease..there would be no problem.
I agree with you almost 100%. The only statement I have any doubts with is "barley anyone would get denied if the Marina was enforcing the law properly". According to Rexone, and the testing he has done, he has stated that boats with thru transom exhaust exiting above the waterline will have problems meeting the new requirements. That is why I am applauding those that are being proactive, and meeting the requirements of the law, and then fighting the unfair testing and enforcement of the Marina. I feel that if we are going to have a leg to stand on, we first must meet the requirements as set forth in the law, and then fight the Marina on their unfair enforcement. Trust me, I am not agreeing with what the Marina is doing, I'm just putting my 2 cents on what I feel is the best approach at winning the battle.

Havasu Hangin'
09-28-2004, 01:29 PM
OK...how about this one (forget the exhaust noise for a minute).
My boat length is legal, yet I was not even allowed to make it to the ramp because "those guys with those boats cause problems".
I had been going to the Marina for over 20 years, and I never once "caused a problem". So am I so different now?
Yes. I am less of a troublemaker than 20 years ago, and I have a bigger boat...

Essex502
09-28-2004, 01:30 PM
Phebus - Thanks for the support!
While we were at the Marina on Saturday many other boats werre "bounced" from launching that were much, much louder than HD's boat. While I personally love the sound of an unmuffled, healthy big block some people may not and that is probably why law enforcement will be getting involved on all of our lakes and ocean Marina's in the future. Mufflers are going to be a fact of life for most of us so we need to be proactive now and fight the tyranny of the Marina and others like it who don't test to the letter of the law.

Havasu Cig
09-28-2004, 01:34 PM
OK...how about this one (forget the exhaust noise for a minute).
My boat length is legal, yet I was not even allowed to make it to the ramp because "those guys with those boats cause problems".
I had been going to the Marina for over 20 years, and I never once "caused a problem". So am I so different now?
Yes. I am less of a troublemaker than 20 years ago, and I have a bigger boat...
Bingo, This is the real issue. It is kind of like gun control. They attack little issues (noise, length ect...) but their main objective is to get rid of as many performance boaters as they can. I really believe the Marina is trying to drive away as many performance boaters as they can from Havasu. They know they have the only good ramp on the lake and they know if they can make it diffcult for people they will go somewhere else.

duffster
09-28-2004, 06:45 PM
Essex 502 did they let you launch or have they turned you away? I need to know because our boats are very similar. We are going out October 9th and
I just need to know what I am in for.

Essex502
09-29-2004, 07:22 AM
When I showed the gentleman at the head of the launch ramp that I had underwater exhaust he said go ahead as I didn't need to be tested. He directed me to lane #6 and I launched with no issue.
Note...I have tested my boat (502 MAG) and it measures 84 db(A) at 39" (inches - yes) from the transom so noise-wise we are legal in both California and Arizona.

duffster
09-29-2004, 09:15 AM
Essex502 What about on plain at 50ft. And by the way thanks for responding.

Magic34
09-29-2004, 10:01 AM
Havasu Dreamin and Essex 502, I applaud what you have done. My comments were meant for those that are complaining about the way the Marina is enforcing the law, yet aren't even close to the standards of the new law. My thoughts were that if we are demanding the Marina comply to the standards of the law, that we as boaters do our best to comply with the law.
I am nowhere close to the standards, yet at the same time I feel the entire issue is over the top. I however, will not complain about how I am treated becuase I don't have mufflers. I spend enough money in Havasu, and I will not spend $2000-$4000 on mufflers for my boat (dual motors)-----yet. I simply will not return to that area and go somewhere else.
All of us are here to have a good time and times are changing every day that alters the way we have to boat. I do not understand the noise issue when so much more needs to be addressed for safety on the water, but obiviously this is what they want to concentrate on.
The retired #'s are large in the winter, just as they are in my city, but they go away in the summer. I wonder what the figures would be for the Nautical and London Bridge when they come down on all "powerboats" in the near future and people make the same decision as I have. When supply is much greater than demand, businesses close down and people lose jobs. News flash Havasu, you make a lot of your money on Tourism, don't bite the hand that feed ya!

Essex502
09-29-2004, 01:15 PM
Essex502 What about on plain at 50ft. And by the way thanks for responding.
On plane - we're all gonna fail without mufflers...the boats are LOUD. The AZ law is 86 db(A) and they mean at any throttle opening. The new CA law is 75 db(A) @ 50' and that is WAY more restrictive than AZ.

Essex502
09-29-2004, 01:19 PM
I am nowhere close to the standards, yet at the same time I feel the entire issue is over the top. I however, will not complain about how I am treated becuase I don't have mufflers. I spend enough money in Havasu, and I will not spend $2000-$4000 on mufflers for my boat (dual motors)-----yet. I simply will not return to that area and go somewhere else.
All of us are here to have a good time and times are changing every day that alters the way we have to boat. I do not understand the noise issue when so much more needs to be addressed for safety on the water, but obiviously this is what they want to concentrate on.
The retired #'s are large in the winter, just as they are in my city, but they go away in the summer. I wonder what the figures would be for the Nautical and London Bridge when they come down on all "powerboats" in the near future and people make the same decision as I have. When supply is much greater than demand, businesses close down and people lose jobs. News flash Havasu, you make a lot of your money on Tourism, don't bite the hand that feed ya!
I hear from my friends the the National Park Service is now cracking down on load boats at Lake Mead and since Lake Mohave is part of the Lake Mead Recreation Area it'll only be a matter of time (expect it next year) before they do the same there.
California's new law going into effect January 1st is more restrictive than AZ's or the NPS's. And...California's new law is in effect offshore to a set distance as well so you can be popped in a CA marina or offshore.
I don't think you will be able to avoid the noise nazis for too much longer.

TRG
09-29-2004, 01:37 PM
where do i send a letter!
i just finishing with my performance upgrades and now will not be able to utilize them!
horse shit i tell ya!
what real funny is this will probably affect the river's too! and with all of the new building (waterfront homes) it's only going to get nasty!
we were all boating when there was hardley any waterfront homes!
i guess i had better get started on a high output electric motor :220v: for the ol' tug!
Bottom line...
is there anything that we can do as a small comunity to rise up against this?
Todd

Havasu_Dreamin
09-29-2004, 01:52 PM
These are all of the addresses I have gathered as a result of what happened to us on 9-25-04. Keep in mind I was not the only boat turned away, many people were turned away. My issue is that our boat is legal per the law in both AZ and CA and we were still hassled and turned away and banned from ever coming back. Of course the test they conducted at the marina was 10 ft behind my boat, not the 50 ft that the AZ law mandates.
Arizona State Land Department
Arizona State Land Department
Operations Division
1616 W. Adams
Phoenix, AZ 85007
RE: Havasu Marina Inc
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Lease No. 32-99062
Arizona Senator John McCain
Phoenix Office
2400 E. Arizona Biltmore Cir.
Suite 1150
Phoenix, Arizona 85016
Washington DC Office
241 Russell Senate Ofc. Bldg.
United States Senate
Washington DC 20510
Arizona House of Representatives
Arizona House of Representatives
Attn: Representative Joe Hart
1700 W. Washington
Room 303
Phoenix, AZ 85007
Arizona House of Representatives
Attn: Representative Bill Wagner III
1700 W. Washington
Room 118
Phoenix, AZ 85007
Arizona State Senate
Arizona Senate
Attn: Senator Linda Binder
1700 W. Washington
Room 307
Phoenix, AZ 85007
Lake Havasu City Council
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Honorable Mayor Bob Whelan
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Bob Crabtree
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Carolyn Bruce
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Kristen Leitz-Aldridge
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Paula Fowler
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Don Clark
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Vall Striyle
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Mohave county Board of Supervisors
Supervisor Johnson is the District 3 Supervisor which includes Lake Havasu City
Mohave County Board of Supervisors
Buster D Johnson, District 3 Supervisor
2100 College Drive
Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Arizona Game and Fish
Arizona Game and Fish
Attn: Arizona Boating Law Administrator
2221 W. Greenway Rd.
Phoenix, AZ 85023-4399
Today’s News Herald
This is the newspaper for Lake Havasu City
Today’s News Herald
Attn: Brian Wedemeyer
2225 W Acoma Blvd
Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403