Legal Boat Banned From Lake Havasu Marina

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I wanted to start an additional thread on this subject so that this post did not get lost in the 300+ posts on the original thread. Sorry for the duplication.
Also, I apologize for the length of the post but it is necessary.
First off I want to provide some background. We have a boat with Mercury Racings 525 motor. Since we knew that the noise laws were coming we decided to put some type of muffling device on. I contacted Rex Marine and asked them if they were interested in using our boat as a test boat since it’s a fairly stout motor and is bone-stock. Rex Marine agreed. We spent the better part of an entire day at Lake Elsinore with a representative from Rex Marine testing the boat with the stock exhaust to get a baseline, testing with the proto-type to see what the difference was in the decibel (db) readings from stock exhaust to prototype. We then put on the actual Rex Marine Silencers to compare the db readings to stock exhaust, prototype Silencers, and then the real Silencers. All of these tests were conducted per the new CA law that goes into effect on January 1, 2005 which is more restrictive than the AZ law. For a refresher, the law in AZ is 86 db at 50 ft at any throttle position, of which idle is one. The new law in CA is 88 db at 39” back from the transom and 4’ up from the waterline. Both the prototype silencer and the finished product version of the Silencers brought our db readings down to 88 dbs.
On Saturday September 25, 2004 we drove from our house in Lake Havasu to the Lake Havasu Marina knowing full well that we would probably be stopped and asked to be tested. We thought fine, we have the new Rex Marine Silencers which we KNOW meet the more restrictive CA law. Upon arrival at the Marina I was asked by an employee of the marina if we have been tested, I explain yes we have silencers installed that meet the CA law that goes into effect on January1, 2005. The employee asked if I had been tested at the marina to which I responded no. The employee proceeds to tell me that I have to be tested or I will not be allowed to launch. Keep in mind this is after I have already paid my launch fee.
We proceed to the launch area and are then asked if we have been tested by yet another employee of Lake Havasu Marina. I again explain the situation as described above about having the Rex Marne Silencers. This employee asks if they can take a look at them on the back of the boat. I tell the employee sure, no problem. The employee looks at them and then tells me, youÂ’re good, just go to lane 3 and launch when it is cleared.
I proceed over to lane 3 as instructed by the employee of Lake Havasu Marina. The Ramp Ranger then says to the employee who told me I was good that I need to be tested no matter what. I say fine, again, knowing that we meet the more restrictive CA law.
I back the boat down into the water, with my dad at the helm, of lane 1 and disconnect it from the trailer. The Ramp Ranger, that’s what the nametag on his shirt said, then proceeds to walk ~10 ft back, not a true measured distance, just 3 steps from the back of the boat. The Ramp Ranger asks my dad to start it up which he does. The Ramp Ranger then begins to point his db meter at the back of the boat. While the Ramp Ranger is doing this a friend of mine who had already launched is standing right next to the Ramp Ranger with his own db meter. My friend proceeds to ask the Ramp Ranger if he has the db meter set to slow response, per the AZ law, the Ramp Ranger says “no” and hastily makes changes to the switches/dials on the db meter. The Ramp Ranger again points the db meter at the transom with my friend still there. My friend then asks the Ramp Ranger if he has the db meter set to the “A” scale, as per the AZ law, as opposed to the “C” scale. The Ramp Ranger replies “no” and again hastily makes changes to the switches/dials on his db meter. The Ramp Ranger is now pointing his db meter at the transom and the db’s are bouncing between 87 and 88 dbs, the same readings, within a db of my friends meter. The Ramp Ranger also proceeded to tell my dad that they had just gotten the db meter on Friday, lots of formal training I’m sure. The Ramp Ranger then proceeds to tell us that we can not launch and that we need to put the boat back on the trailer.
Both my dad and I inform the Ramp Ranger that the boat has Rex Marine Silencers installed that meet the more restrictive CA law of 88 db’s at 39” We also inform the Ramp Ranger that the law in the State of Arizona is 86 dbs at 50 ft. The Ramp Ranger proceeds to tell us that no, the law in Arizona is 86 db at 50 ft at Wide Open Throttle (WOT). We again inform the Ramp Ranger he is wrong in what the State Law is. He says “it does not matter and that we need to put the boat back on the trailer”, keep in mind the boat is now, and has been the whole time, floating. I proceed to tell the Ramp Ranger that I am not putting the boat back on the trailer as I am floating and they have no jurisdiction over the water. The Ramp Ranger then states, “put it back on the trailer or I will call my manager”, I tell the Ramp Ranger to call his Manager.
The manager, (I do not believe that it was Jeff that everyone refers to), proceeds to come over and I extend my hand to shake his hand, which he refused to do. The Manager then proceeds to raise his voice and ask me “What part of 86 decibels do you not understand?” in front of a crowd of at least 5-10 other boat owners waiting to launch/be tested. I reply to the manager that I understand 86 dbs but the law in the State of Arizona is 86 dbs at 50 ft, not the ~10 ft that the Ramp Ranger was taking the measurement at. The manager then tells me “I don’t care what the State Law is, these are the Lake Havasu Marina Laws and we make the laws around here and the law here is 86 dbs.” The Manager goes on to say that “This is private property and we can do whatever we want to. The State can not tell a private business how to run its business.” I inform the manager that I know for a fact that the Marina resides on State of Arizona owned land that the Marina leases from the State as a Sub-concessionaire, they do not own land which means it is not private property. I ask the Manager if he knows if he is in violation of Arizona law, that is the noise law, and he responds again with “I don’t care what the State Law is”.
The Manager then proceeds to tell me that we either put the boat back on the trailer or he will call the Police and have them come and arrest us. I tell him that we are on the water and he has no jurisdiction on the water and go ahead and call the Police. I then proceed to tell my dad to just take the boat out to Thompson Bay. The Manager then looks at my dad and says, “Are you going to leave your tow vehicle here, if so we’ll take real good care of it” In a very sarcastic and threatening tone. I ask the Manager if that is a threat. He says “No, we’ll just watch it real close for you” again in a very sarcastic and threatening tone. I again ask the Manager if that is a threat, he responded again with no. I tell him, well it sounded like a threat to me. And the crowd that had gathered around said they agreed.
I tell my dad to head over to Windsor and IÂ’ll tow the trailer over there and we will just retrieve from there. The Manager then proceeds to find out the AZ numbers on the boat and told the Ramp Ranger that we are banned from ever coming back to the Marina, (for what I do not know since we MEET THE ARIZONA LAW). The Manager also directs the Ramp Ranger to take the tow vehicle license plate and the trailer plate. I proceed to tell the Ramp Ranger both.
So, we have a launch ramp that sits on leased State land and the contract for the lease states that they must provide a public launch ramp for the boating public to use. I received a response from the Arizona State Land Department to the previous letter that I wrote requesting action regarding the Marina and it’s actions, The letter stated that the sub-concessionaire “…is without authority to restrict public use, without good cause, of the marina to launch water craft” Where is the good cause in what I have described above?
For all of you that think it won’t happen to you, it will. This needs to be fought because what the Marina is doing is wrong and totally arbitrary. Who is the Marina, as a non-law enforcement agency, to restrict a certain boater from launching at their facility? The Marina does not make the laws in the State of Arizona. The Marina can not come up with its own “Lake Havasu Marina Laws” as the Manager said they have. The Marina has absolutely no right to prevent us from launching again nor do they even have the right to conduct decibel meter tests on launching boats.
EVERYONE NEEDS TO GET INVOLVED IN THIS! WHAT THE MARINA IS DOING IS NOT RIGHT! THIS IMPACTS US ALL!

[Wet Dream]

Hd, sorry to hear it. Sounds like someone at the marina wants to play God to the lake. What are the possibilities of getting a class action lawsuit going, or getting the state to enforce the rules that they are not a private property and cannot restrict the use?

[Essex502]

I was present at the incident related above and can attest to the accuracy of HD's facts. I was appalled at the attitude of "we're above the law" that the Lake Havasu Marina staff project. I believe the staff member or manager's name was "Tony" and can best be described as an older, grey haired, tall guy. I have a picture of this person that I haven't posted yet. I took pictures while the scene played itself out. I can also say that I took "Tony's" statement of "watching the truck" as an implied threat.
In no way did Havasu Dreamin' nor his dad incite this incident. Both were calm and polite to the Ramp Ranger and this Tony character. Tony's reply that the Marina didn't have to abide by Arizona law astounding all of the bystanders - which were many.
This crap has to stop.

[shadow]

I had been boycotting the marina until recently.Was under the impression that round one had been won and give it a try.Since then i launched twice.
Last time about 2-3 weeks ago no problem.this time the rump ranger I mean ramp ranger stood about 10' behind my boat with his meter and says that my boat is to loud and that i can't launch there anymore.STOCK496ho and my exhaust is under the swim step half in the water.Muffled and quite to say the least.What the f u c k? I think it's time for Mercruiser to get involved if thier stock engines can't be legally launched or run on the lake.

[MagicMtnDan]

This flat out sucks! People with power can be dangerous. People who abuse their power are insecure scum bags who make life tough for others for no reason.
Justice will be gained when this weasel and his henchmen are tossed out on their asses. Then they'll have no power and return to simply being pricks.
Now the question I have is what is the best way to put an end to this BS?!

[That Guy]

Everyone and I mean EVERYONE needs to get involved in this. The marina screwed up every launch ramp in town this weekend with their arbitrary and illegal practices. The Advantage owners (who mostly had stock boats) with families, kids, friends, etc. were treated like common criminals this weekend. Windsor was full by early afternoon on Saturday, an afternoon that normally wouldn't even get to capacity. We have a major problem here and even if you don't launch at the marina, you will BE IMPACTED. Even for those of you not usually inclined to get involved, please take the time to make some calls, write some letters, donate some money, etc. to help out. I didn't spend $100k on a boat to watch it sit in my drive way. Contact Art and see how you can help.

[Racer277]

I can also say that I took "Tony's" statement of "watching the truck" as an implied threat.
Maybe a sacrificial (read: commuter) truck could be placed in harms way, just to catch these focks. :cool:
If we get to deliver a nice beatin' then the video go's away. If we don't then we have video evidence. :cool:

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Now the question I have is what is the best way to put an end to this BS?!
Write letters. Write many and write write often. Explain that you are not happy wth what you are hearing is happening at the Lake Havasu Marina. If you ahave first hand experiences, liek the one I described above or similiar, write about that. We need to get on this and get the Marina to stop this BS!

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

I guess I wont be lauching tbere

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Here are all of the addresses that I have so far. Every person on this list has received a letter from me. EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD DO THE SAME!
Arizona State Land Department
Operations Division
1616 W. Adams
Phoenix, AZ 85007
RE: Havasu Marina Inc
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Lease No. 32-99062
_________________________________________________
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Honorable Mayor Bob Whelan
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Bob Crabtree
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Carolyn Bruce
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Kristen Leitz-Aldridge
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Paula Fowler
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Don Clark
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Vall Striyle
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
TodayÂ’s News Herald
Attn: Brian Wedemeyer
2225 W Acoma Blvd
Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403

[That Guy]

I guess I wont be lauching tbere
Shake...pretty soon it may not matter where you launch. If you read some of the other posts they were out at Windsor this weekend as well. We all need to write, call and get involved....

[Sherpa]

you guys must enjoy the ass reaming this marina dishes out..... boycott....
but then again, I understand the want to "ratify" the problem with the
concessionaire............
--Sherpa

[Dave C]

suggestion, why doesn't someone stand in front but outside of their property and hand out flyers to boaters, stating the facts and asking people to boycott.
something like:
"Havasu Marina unfair to ALL boaters"
"your boating rights have been affected also"
...etc, etc.
If they are restricting use of a public-use facility without just cause... then a little "public education" is necessary.

[NastyOne]

suggestion, why doesn't someone stand in front but outside of their property and hand out flyers to boaters, stating the facts and asking people to boycott.
something like:
"Havasu Marina unfair to ALL boaters"
"your boating rights have been affected also"
...etc, etc.
If they are restricting use of a public-use facility without just cause... then a little "public education" is necessary.
I like it.... :idea:

[NOTALENT]

Man..I give u Props..If It was me and he started with an attitude like that..man all hell would have broke loose..which is why I have been avoiding going there..

[robt]

I'm no where near you all but i do have a way t help you all out if you all can get me what i need :
1) will Rex marine be willing to install there stuff on someone elses boat and test it to make sure it is legal if they are we need a boat that has not gotten banned from the marina and looks like they would get turned away from them after the test is for sure within the laws the said boat needs to be launched from there and video is a must have if they turn this boat away i can get you all some network time and with this it should be enough to force the state to act
2) i have a paper that will need to be given to each person that is on the video after the video is shot if you can get them to sign it great then they might be contacted for an interview if they refuse thats is fine also we will just have to black out there face (I will have to do some checking since this is a public ramp this step may not be needed
3) anyone that has had a problem at the ramp that is willing to go on tv i will need your info if your boat is not within the law or you are not sure please do not step forward as it will only hurt the cause
if you all are willing to do the leg work i will help you out so just pm me when you make your minds up
on another note i will be honest i will make a small amount of $$$ doing this but it will be paid by my contact at nbc not by any of you and rex marine will get free tv time so they will do this im sure there is no promise that they will air this program but it fits the mold for stuff i have given them before
any ??? pm me
Thanks Rob

[Huckleberry]

The manager then tells me “I don’t care what the State Law is, these are the Lake Havasu Marina Laws and we make the laws around here and the law here is 86 dbs.” The Manager goes on to say that “This is private property and we can do whatever we want to. The State can not tell a private business how to run its business.”
In case everyone didn't read Havasu Dreamin's full post, this statement from the management sums up the entire problem with LHM! They truly believe they are above the law.
If a traffic cops pulled you over and tried to give you a ticket for doing 35 MPH in a 50 MPH zone, and then gave you the same reasons Mr. Manager gave HD, you would be outraged. What is the difference here folks. DO NOT PUT UP WITH THIS STUFF FOLKS! GET INVOLVED!!!

[dicudmore]

what a bunch of crap
they hassled me last weekend
they need a :hammerhea

[waterwitch]

First, I am sorry for how rudely you were treated!
I am not suprised. You give a man a little power
and it goes to the wrong head!
I don't think boycotting is the only answer.
I am backing up the writing letters! If you
don't write, the people with the ablity to change,
do not know what is happening. We MUST tell them.
You can not hand out flyers, it is against a city
ordanice.
The Marina is the best place to launch if you have a
large boat, and they are fully aware of this.
Winsor sucks, and lets not even discuss
Site 6. There are no other options!
Thank you for posting the addresses, and I am
also calling the local paper (here in Havasu)
to give them the heads up, and see if they will
start to follow this story and others.
Let me know if there is anything I can do from
here, to help this along.
Sincerely Jeff and Traci

[Huckleberry]

Waterwitch,
PM Lakeracer (Art). He is spearheading the charge and is always looking for help.

[Huckleberry]

For those of you that don't know this all ready "Hot Boat Has a Magazine"
Why not get them to do a feature article on this BS :idea:
Kevin Spaise did one a few months back, but nothing else has come out on it lately. Its about time for a followup article.

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

knucklehead is right.. also is there anyway to getting a state certified person to do the testing there instead of the so call ass of an owners employee's :smile:

[OGShocker]

HD,
Sorry for all the trouble you had. These folks at LHM need to have thier nutz flicked! I have launched there exclusivly for the past few years. I will not put the boat on thier ramp again.
Jeff,
Since I know you lurk in here so, let me be clear on this. FOCK YOU! Please look at my sig' line, the picture of our boat is down there. Ban me, please ban me. You silly little man. Be sure and wave when I "cruise" through the marina on one of my many tours in and out of the slips. :yuk:

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

I'm sure powerboat could do a story on it also.. :D

[Rexone]

I dunno guys but I'd think if EVERYONE just stopped going to Havasu for awhile period, (go to another lake next summer) the merchants in the town would hand the marina its ass. Money talks. The marina may not care but I'm sure the majority of the businesses that survive off you guys rec. dollars would care (alot) when they had empty hotels and resturants and bars. They (these other business owners) may not even be aware of it if they are hotel owners, resturant owners, etc, etc, etc, and not around the lake or boating much. I'll bet a serious boycott (not just the marina) would make some heads within the city snap around (in the direction of the marina management).
What the marina is doing is total bullshit. Don't spend any money in Havasu any more at all. I'll bet things would get corrected.
Just a thought (from someone who almost never goes to Havazoo any more).

[Misogynist]

It sounds like the guy should have had a patch on his shirt that read "Rump Ranger"............. :mad: Because they have a consession on state land doesn't mean they can dictate their own rules..... :hammer2:

[Essex502]

First, I am sorry for how rudely you were treated!
I am not suprised. You give a man a little power
and it goes to the wrong head!
I don't think boycotting is the only answer.
I am backing up the writing letters! If you
don't write, the people with the ablity to change,
do not know what is happening. We MUST tell them.
You can not hand out flyers, it is against a city
ordanice.
The Marina is the best place to launch if you have a
large boat, and they are fully aware of this.
Winsor sucks, and lets not even discuss
Site 6. There are no other options!
Thank you for posting the addresses, and I am
also calling the local paper (here in Havasu)
to give them the heads up, and see if they will
start to follow this story and others.
Let me know if there is anything I can do from
here, to help this along.
Sincerely Jeff and Traci
I've spoken with Brian Wedemeyer at the Havasu News Herald and he already wrote one article on the problem we are having. Another article would be great - especially what happened this weekend and the backup at the other launch facilities due to the problem with the marina.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

HD,
Sorry for all the trouble you had. These folks at LHM need to have thier nutz flicked! I have launched there exclusivly for the past few years. I will not put the boat on thier ramp again.
Jeff,
Since I know you lurk in here so, let me be clear on this. FOCK YOU! Please look at my sig' line, the picture of our boat is down there. Ban me, please ban me. You silly little man. Be sure and wave when I "cruise" through the marina on one of my many tours in and out of the slips. :yuk:
Please remember, I do not believe the person that we dealt with was Jeff. the gentlemen we dealt with was an older white haired gent and I believe his name was Tony. I personally have never had a run in with anyone at the Marina other than what occurred this past weekend and with these two employees.

[throwerb]

I dunno guys but I'd think if EVERYONE just stopped going to Havasu for awhile period, (go to another lake next summer) the merchants in the town would hand the marina its ass. Money talks. The marina may not care but I'm sure the majority of the businesses that survive off you guys rec. dollars would care (alot) when they had empty hotels and resturants and bars. They (these other business owners) may not even be aware of it if they are hotel owners, resturant owners, etc, etc, etc, and not around the lake or boating much. I'll be a serious boycott (not just the marina) would make some heads within the city snap around (in the direction of the marina management).
What the marina is doing is total bullshit. Don't spend any money in Havasu any more at all. I'll bet things would get corrected.
Just a thought (from someone who almost never goes to Havazoo any more).
Count me in, cheaper to stay in Laughlin and go to Mohave anyway. May be time to take out an ad in the local paper and let the people of th e city know what is going on and why business will be WAY off next summer. I'll pitch in some cash if you guys think it would help. :mad:

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

Ditto.. :shift:

[Essex502]

I dunno guys but I'd think if EVERYONE just stopped going to Havasu for awhile period, (go to another lake next summer) the merchants in the town would hand the marina its ass. Money talks. The marina may not care but I'm sure the majority of the businesses that survive off you guys rec. dollars would care (alot) when they had empty hotels and resturants and bars. They (these other business owners) may not even be aware of it if they are hotel owners, resturant owners, etc, etc, etc, and not around the lake or boating much. I'll be a serious boycott (not just the marina) would make some heads within the city snap around (in the direction of the marina management).
What the marina is doing is total bullshit. Don't spend any money in Havasu any more at all. I'll bet things would get corrected.
Just a thought (from someone who almost never goes to Havazoo any more).
The problem with the boycott idea is that we, on this forum, are only a tiny fraction of the boating public that goes to Havasu.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I've spoken with Brian Wedemeyer at the Havasu News Herald and he already wrote one article on the problem we are having. Another article would be great - especially what happened this weekend and the backup at the other launch facilities due to the problem with the marina.
I sent Brian copies of all of my letters this past Saturday. Assuming he contacts me we'll go into it. If not, he'll be getting a nother copy of the next set of letters to go out.

[Wet Dream]

Wouldn't it be something if a few tow rigs and boat trailers just happened to "break down" at the most critical time, blocking all entrances? :D

[Slib77]

Man, this blows. I sure am glad that the house we are having built up river has a private launch for our gated community.
I have to call my buddy and see if he got harassed at Windsor for his boat. That sum bitch is loud.

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

Wouldn't it be something if a few tow rigs and boat trailers just happened to "break down" at the most critical time, blocking all entrances? :D
LOL!! Sorry sir.. I am out of gas.. and all my tires are flat.. :smile: :smile:

[NOTALENT]

I dunno guys but I'd think if EVERYONE just stopped going to Havasu for awhile period, (go to another lake next summer) the merchants in the town would hand the marina its ass. Money talks. The marina may not care but I'm sure the majority of the businesses that survive off you guys rec. dollars would care (alot) when they had empty hotels and resturants and bars. They (these other business owners) may not even be aware of it if they are hotel owners, resturant owners, etc, etc, etc, and not around the lake or boating much. I'll bet a serious boycott (not just the marina) would make some heads within the city snap around (in the direction of the marina management).
What the marina is doing is total bullshit. Don't spend any money in Havasu any more at all. I'll bet things would get corrected.
Just a thought (from someone who almost never goes to Havazoo any more).
If we did this...well we would just be giving in. Most of us own homes there. So why would we give in to satisfy them??? Thats not the right way to go about it. Dont know about u all, But I am not about let someone who is in the wrong...win this situation. I believe the way everyone is going about it is the right way. And we shoul keep up the fight. Just my .02

[SummerObsession]

Even though I live in the midwest, this stuff really gets under my skin. True, we don't have those kinds of problems.....YET!!!
Even on LOTO, the cruiser crowd would love nothing more than to outlaw our "Loud, obnoxious boats".
I am not that familiar with AZ laws and such, but if this Marina has a lease with the state, should their contract not be a matter of public record? Could a copy be found somewhere?
there would be your real power. Read every word of their contract, especially those clauses that could violate the contract, and see if there is a way to prove to the state that they are, in fact, violating their agreement.
Things will change fast if that is true. They will either change their behavior or lose their contract.
Either way its a win-win for us boaters.

[Rexone]

The problem with the boycott idea is that we, on this forum, are only a tiny fraction of the boating public that goes to Havasu.
I agree but big problems require big solutions. The marina is a big problem for you guys and for Havasu.
You have enough members here if organized to get the ball rolling down hill so to speak.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I am not that familiar with AZ laws and such, but if this Marina has a lease with the state, should their contract not be a matter of public record? Could a copy be found somewhere?
Has already been done.

[Rexone]

If we did this...well we would just be giving in. Most of us own homes there. So why would we give in to satisfy them??? Thats not the right way to go about it. Dont know about u all, But I am not about let someone who is in the wrong...win this situation. I believe the way everyone is going about it is the right way. And we shoul keep up the fight. Just my .02
I hear you on this. But so far from what I've read no one that matters or that will do anything has paid any attention to the content of your letters. I'm not suggesting that you should stop the letters. Just try something else in addition if the letter writing continues to not work.
Bottom line is the whole situation sucks. But you guys as homeowners there and visitors need to put the throttle down on this problem if you ever expect it to be corrected. Part of that equation might mean being inconvenienced by not using the lake you like for awhile regardless if you have a house there or not.

[lucky]

gotta be some land you could lease from the indians to make a drop in spot ? every one pay a donation ?

[Essex502]

Even though I live in the midwest, this stuff really gets under my skin. True, we don't have those kinds of problems.....YET!!!
Even on LOTO, the cruiser crowd would love nothing more than to outlaw our "Loud, obnoxious boats".
I am not that familiar with AZ laws and such, but if this Marina has a lease with the state, should their contract not be a matter of public record? Could a copy be found somewhere?
there would be your real power. Read every word of their contract, especially those clauses that could violate the contract, and see if there is a way to prove to the state that they are, in fact, violating their agreement.
Things will change fast if that is true. They will either change their behavior or lose their contract.
Either way its a win-win for us boaters.
Thanks for your support! We have a copy of the contract. Contact LakeRacer for the specifics. They are definitely in violation of their concessionaire contract. They are also stepping on the toes of the local law enforcement by setting themselves up as a noise enforcement entity.

[ROZ]

I'm no where near you all but i do have a way t help you all out if you all can get me what i need :
1) will Rex marine be willing to install there stuff on someone elses boat and test it to make sure it is legal if they are we need a boat that has not gotten banned from the marina and looks like they would get turned away from them after the test is for sure within the laws the said boat needs to be launched from there and video is a must have if they turn this boat away i can get you all some network time and with this it should be enough to force the state to act
2) i have a paper that will need to be given to each person that is on the video after the video is shot if you can get them to sign it great then they might be contacted for an interview if they refuse thats is fine also we will just have to black out there face (I will have to do some checking since this is a public ramp this step may not be needed
3) anyone that has had a problem at the ramp that is willing to go on tv i will need your info if your boat is not within the law or you are not sure please do not step forward as it will only hurt the cause
if you all are willing to do the leg work i will help you out so just pm me when you make your minds up
on another note i will be honest i will make a small amount of $$$ doing this but it will be paid by my contact at nbc not by any of you and rex marine will get free tv time so they will do this im sure there is no promise that they will air this program but it fits the mold for stuff i have given them before
any ??? pm me
Thanks Rob
This is something that will really grab the attention of the powers that be. I know a few enginneers here at our local nbc station , and they are always looking for a good story through the grapevine. I hope someone takes you up on it...

[Essex502]

I hear you on this. But so far from what I've read no one that matters or that will do anything has paid any attention to the content of your letters. I'm not suggesting that you should stop the letters. Just try something else in addition if the letter writing continues to not work.
Bottom line is the whole situation sucks. But you guys as homeowners there and visitors need to put the throttle down on this problem if you ever expect it to be corrected. Part of that equation might mean being inconvenienced by not using the lake you like for awhile regardless if you have a house there or not.
Most of us that have written letters have received letters back from the State of Arizona acknowledging receipt and that the "sub-concessionaire" either "will be notified that they are not in compliance" or "have been notified they are not in compliance" with the contract. It hasn't made any difference yet.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I'm no where near you all but i do have a way t help you all out if you all can get me what i need :
1) will Rex marine be willing to install there stuff on someone elses boat and test it to make sure it is legal if they are we need a boat that has not gotten banned from the marina and looks like they would get turned away from them after the test is for sure within the laws the said boat needs to be launched from there and video is a must have if they turn this boat away i can get you all some network time and with this it should be enough to force the state to act
2) i have a paper that will need to be given to each person that is on the video after the video is shot if you can get them to sign it great then they might be contacted for an interview if they refuse thats is fine also we will just have to black out there face (I will have to do some checking since this is a public ramp this step may not be needed
3) anyone that has had a problem at the ramp that is willing to go on tv i will need your info if your boat is not within the law or you are not sure please do not step forward as it will only hurt the cause
if you all are willing to do the leg work i will help you out so just pm me when you make your minds up
on another note i will be honest i will make a small amount of $$$ doing this but it will be paid by my contact at nbc not by any of you and rex marine will get free tv time so they will do this im sure there is no promise that they will air this program but it fits the mold for stuff i have given them before
any ??? pm me
Thanks Rob
Obviously our boat is out.

[Essex502]

We're out too as our exhaust though unmuffled exits underwater. We register 84 db(A) at 39" (CA standard)

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

I don't even think we have been tested.. :confused:

[ROZ]

I don't even think we have been tested.. :confused:
What's 2 + 2 ?

[Havasu Cig]

Everybody needs to contact Art and ask what you can do to help. I have already told him I will kick in money for the retainer on the attorney he has talked to. I tried to tell everybody two years ago what was going on and most did not care at the time because they were only restricting boats over 36'. Well now they are restricting more boats and it will only get worse. GET INVOLVED!!!
I moved this post over from the other thread.
BTW: HD, I would include the statements made by the Marina staff in your letter to the state.

[Essex502]

I don't even think we have been tested.. :confused:
If you were to launch at the Marina and have through or over transom exhaust - muffled or not - you'd fail. They have setup their testing procedure to assure this.

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

What's 2 + 2 ?
LMAO!! uh.. four.. :D :D :confused: :D

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

If you were to launch at the Marina and have through or over transom exhaust - muffled or not - you'd fail. They have setup their testing procedure to assure this.
well that is focked.. :cry:

[ROZ]

LMAO!! uh.. four.. :D :D :confused: :D
congrats! You passed the test!!! :D Where should I send your certificate? :D:D:D

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

congrats! You passed the test!!! :D Where should I send your certificate? :D:D:D
LMAO!! the marina please.. so I can shove it..
.
. in the clerks drawer for future reference. :wink: :crossx:

[Havasu Cig]

I dunno guys but I'd think if EVERYONE just stopped going to Havasu for awhile period, (go to another lake next summer) the merchants in the town would hand the marina its ass. Money talks. The marina may not care but I'm sure the majority of the businesses that survive off you guys rec. dollars would care (alot) when they had empty hotels and resturants and bars. They (these other business owners) may not even be aware of it if they are hotel owners, resturant owners, etc, etc, etc, and not around the lake or boating much. I'll bet a serious boycott (not just the marina) would make some heads within the city snap around (in the direction of the marina management).
What the marina is doing is total bullshit. Don't spend any money in Havasu any more at all. I'll bet things would get corrected.
Just a thought (from someone who almost never goes to Havazoo any more).
We are planning on heading out for the poker run this weekend but it will only be our second trip and we own a house there. I can't see people going out there and paying good money for a hotel and then being hassled like this. If I did not own a house there I would not even get near LHC. This has got to cut into $$$ coming into the town I would think.
On a similar note, my neighbor in LHC builds pools for a living. I told him about the problems at the Marina and how they were going to drive away boaters from the city. He told me straight up that if the people from California stop coming he might as well close up shop. Most of his business comes from So.Cal people. This will effect a lot of businesses out there if people stop going. I am afraid it could also effect the value of my house there.
Luckily I have a boat that I can run in the ocean but for those of you that have dropped serious $$$ on a lake boat you have got to be worried about what is going on out there. Just some things to think about.

[ROZ]

LMAO!! the marina please.. so I can shove it..
.
. in the clerks drawer for future reference. :wink: :crossx:
I'm going to send a copy to the Beaumont public relations guy as well as the marina with explicit instructions for them to shove it upon your arrival :D

[robt]

Mrs fv is that an offer you would use your boat for the test ?
and havasu d would the people that tested and did your work be willing to jump on board for this?
i made a call and they are very interested they are working on a piece on a campground in ill that is not letting large rv's camp so they think the two could air at the same time anyone willing to help out?
rob

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Everybody needs to contact Art and ask what you can do to help. I have already told him I will kick in money for the retainer on the attorney he has talked to. I tried to tell everybody two years ago what was going on and most did not care at the time because they were only restricting boats over 36'. Well now they are restricting more boats and it will only get worse. GET INVOLVED!!!
I moved this post over from the other thread.
BTW: HD, I would include the statements made by the Marina staff in your letter to the state.
Oh, they most definitely will be included in all of my future correspondence. Thegreat thing is that E502 was present, as was a decent crowd of people, and heard the whole conversation so it's not like I'm making those comments up.

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

Mrs fv is that an offer you would use your boat for the test ?
and havasu d would the people that tested and did your work be willing to jump on board for this?
i made a call and they are very interested they are working on a piece on a campground in ill that is not letting large rv's camp so they think the two could air at the same time anyone willing to help out?
rob
yes.. We are willing to help out everyone.. so what ever is needed from us.. we are willing to do it..

[Havasu_Dreamin]

The issue with the V's boat is that it has twins so it most likely will even be above the law with silencrs. But, they could always just test it with only one engine on. That said, I do appreciate Mrs Flyin Vee for stepping up and offering their boat as a test boat. I have no answer on if the people involved with installing my silencers would be willing to work with this.

[JustMVG]

Some of you who live in the area should print this thread and give it out to the Hot boaters BEFORE they enter the Marina to launch, start letting people know that if they get tested and fail they lose the launch fees also,picket, have your vehicles parked with signs on them before anyone turns in to the marina, if they ain't a playin' fair then we don't need to either. Just my lil ole 2 cents worth.
Mike VG

[Essex502]

yes.. We are willing to help out everyone.. so what ever is needed from us.. we are willing to do it..
What kind of boat and motor combination do you folks have?

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

The issue with the V's boat is that it has twins so it most likely will even be above the law with silencrs. But, they could always just test it with only one engine on. That said, I do appreciate Mrs Flyin Vee for stepping up and offering their boat as a test boat. I have no answer on if the people involved with installing my silencers would be willing to work with this.
the offer will stand for you.. just let us know if we can and be legal after the install. :wink: because I have no idea..just tryin to help everyone.. :wink:

[Havasu Cig]

Anybody that is considering launching at the Marina should take a video camera and record the testing procedures they are using. The videos could be sent to the state and it could be pointed out what they are doing step by step that is wrong and not in compliance with state law. In a court of law
you can attack a test given buy a law enforcement agency if it is not done properly and I don't see why it would be any different with the state.

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

What kind of boat and motor combination do you folks have?
we have a 29'DCB with twin 575's.

[dicudmore]

Anybody that is considering launching at the Marina should take a video camera and record the testing procedures they are using. The videos could be sent to the state and it could be pointed out what they are doing step by step that is wrong and not in compliance with state law. In a court of law
you can attack a test given buy a law enforcement agency if it is not done properly and I don't see why it would be any different with the state.
that is a good idea

[Havasu Cig]

What kind of boat and motor combination do you folks have?
I believe they have a 29 DCB w/575's.
I guess I was to slow. :wink:

[dicudmore]

we have a 29'DCB with twin 575's.
and its awesome :D
:D

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

I believe they have a 29 DCB w/575's.
I guess I was to slow. :wink:
LOL!! sometimes slow is good.. :)

[waterwitch]

I just talked with the Mayors office, and they
have had contact with the Marina, but it
comes down to ....It is privately owned.
I could not get any other answers other
then that. I also asked, what happens when
people start boycotting Lake Havasu due to
this problem, and again, the answer was the
same. It is privately owned.
Ok...so tell me what I should do now?

[roostwear]

Sure would help the cause and add a little credence to the complaints if an "official" from Arizona (fish and game? hmmmm?) was at the ramp with a meter when a boat was tested and rejected.

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

don't the people giving the test at the marina have to be certified.. kind of like a cop with a radar gun.

[Havasu Cig]

I just talked with the Mayors office, and they
have had contact with the Marina, but it
comes down to ....It is privately owned.
I could not get any other answers other
then that. I also asked, what happens when
people start boycotting Lake Havasu due to
this problem, and again, the answer was the
same. It is privately owned.
Ok...so tell me what I should do now?
Either the Mayor does not want to get involved or he is not aware of the lease they have with the state and the stipulations that are in the lease. It is true that a private business on private property can refuse service but this is not the case with the Marina. The land is state property that is to be available for public use.

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

Either the Mayor does not want to get involved or he is not aware of the lease they have with the state and the stipulations that are in the lease. It is true that a private business on private property can refuse service but this is not the case with the Marina. The land is state property that is to be available for public use.
I thought the mayor was related some how to someone there.. :confused:

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I just talked with the Mayors office, and they
have had contact with the Marina, but it
comes down to ....It is privately owned.
I could not get any other answers other
then that. I also asked, what happens when
people start boycotting Lake Havasu due to
this problem, and again, the answer was the
same. It is privately owned.
Ok...so tell me what I should do now?
Yes, it is a private business but it is on State of Arizona Land. It is NOT private property. I have a letter from the Arizona State Land Department stating that the marina is in violation of their lease agreement by refusing launching of watercraft without cause. Someone please point to me in my post of what happened tis weekend they ahve cause to ban us from the marina? We meet teh more restrictive CA law and we meet the current AZ law therefore they ahve no reason to ban me from the marina. That response from the Mayors office is a copout, perhaps he should reconsider since he sells boats that could be banned from launching at the marina as well.
Everyone needs to remember, we are not doing this becasue want the Marina to give us preferential treatment. All we want from the Mrina is for them to abide by their contract with the State of Arizona and not try and place a more restrictive rule upon the boating public than an AZ law enforcement officer can even issue a ticket for.

[Mardonzi]

I know it's a bit further down the road, but Lake Powell and the city of Page AZ would love to have your business if or when you all decided to boycott Lake Havasu. Food for Thought!!

[gmocnik]

I concluded my boating season at havasu this weekend and contributed a grand total of $0 to the marina this year. Any other year launch fees, gas, junk in the store, etc. would have totaled several thousand dollars. maybe they won't miss it but over time lost revenue could impact their overall business...
in having a few extra moments this morning i was thinking...(dangerous at anytime)...what would happen if:
a performance boating friendly pwc owner waited at the dock for a friends performance boat to launch. the performance boater could refuse to start the motors for "testing", push the boat off the trailer, and simply be towed out of the marina by the pwc....
no noise...no issue....
i would love to see their response...
i guess i just like to stir the pot....
p.s. everyone please write the letters...constant pushing is the only way to get government agencies to act
gm

[waterwitch]

The Lake Havasu Marina's response to
all this, "they are watching out for thier
employees. The noise issue is out of control
and they feel it is being abused. We are
worried about sevre hearing damage.
Lake havasu
was meant for pontoon boats, and familys.
There is no need for 40' Foutains on this
lake".
Their words----Not Mine.

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

The Lake Havasu Marina's response to
all this, "they are watching out for thier
employees. The noise issue is out of control
and they feel it is being abused. We are
worried about sevre hearing damage.
Lake havasu
was meant for pontoon boats, and familys.
There is no need for 40' Foutains on this
lake".
Their words----Not Mine.
what about the guy screaming at everyone.. he is louder then most boats out there.

[waterwitch]

That made me laugh!
Thanks! :D

[VelocityDriver]

The person in charge of this division at Arizona State Land Department
is Richard Oxford, phone # is (602) 542-4602 or (602) 542-4631. He is out today but will be back in the morning, bombard him with phone calls and letters and get something done.

[Mandelon]

I had some other friends there who heard the exchange as well. They said it was a total clusterfukk at the ramp, directing vehicles different directions if they needed to be tested and was just a general mess.
I wonder if they have had some direction from someone higher up within the city....in an attempt to get rid of the "party" crowd......The local older folks are not too impressed with the drunken debauchery that we have all seen (and enjoyed) in the channel.....they may have decided that by getting rid of the performance boats, they will get rid of that element....
I'm thinking a ramp blockade isn't such a bad idea....either on the pavement or in the entrance on the water, at the mouth of the marina....if the entrance to the lake was too crowded then they couldn't launch any boats, even quiet ones if they couldn't get out to the lake.........Remember the parade scene near the end of Animal House" where the marching band heads down a dead end alley..... :devil: :devil:
Man--->launched at Windsor on Sunday<-----delon

[Havasu Cig]

The Lake Havasu Marina's response to
all this, "they are watching out for thier
employees. The noise issue is out of control
and they feel it is being abused. We are
worried about sevre hearing damage.
Lake havasu
was meant for pontoon boats, and familys.
There is no need for 40' Foutains on this
lake".
Their words----Not Mine.
Maybe they need a history lesson on why McCullough, who's son owns the Marina, founded the City.

[Bob Noxious]

I concluded my boating season at havasu this weekend and contributed a grand total of $0 to the marina this year. Any other year launch fees, gas, junk in the store, etc. would have totaled several thousand dollars. maybe they won't miss it but over time lost revenue could impact their overall business...
in having a few extra moments this morning i was thinking...(dangerous at anytime)...what would happen if:
a performance boating friendly pwc owner waited at the dock for a friends performance boat to launch. the performance boater could refuse to start the motors for "testing", push the boat off the trailer, and simply be towed out of the marina by the pwc....
no noise...no issue
i would love to see their response...
i guess i just like to stir the pot....
p.s. everyone please write the letters...constant pushing is the only way to get government agencies to act
gm
"The boat was so expensive that we couldn't afford an engine.... we're just going to paddle it around!" OR
"The boat was so expensive that we couldn't afford an engine so we borrowed this 3-horse Johnson mounted here on the swimstep...Wanna test it?"

[Essex502]

I just talked with the Mayors office, and they
have had contact with the Marina, but it
comes down to ....It is privately owned.
I could not get any other answers other
then that. I also asked, what happens when
people start boycotting Lake Havasu due to
this problem, and again, the answer was the
same. It is privately owned.
Ok...so tell me what I should do now?
If you have any recommendations for legal representation of our cause..please send the info to LakeRacer (Art).
Also, contacting the various boat manufacturers such as Conquest, Magic, Advantage (especially them since it should be fresh in their minds that their customers had losts of trouble this past weekend), Cheetah, Stealth and any others I might have forgotten.
We'll be back in town the weekend of the 8th, 9th and 10th to drum up more support. AND...document more abuse at the hands of the Marina.
The mayor's office was no help last year when this all started and it doesn't surprise me that they are taking a hands-off approach. Those of you who actual reside in LHC should remember this when elections come again!

[Essex502]

Either the Mayor does not want to get involved or he is not aware of the lease they have with the state and the stipulations that are in the lease. It is true that a private business on private property can refuse service but this is not the case with the Marina. The land is state property that is to be available for public use.
I have it from a reliable source that the Mayor himself is very aware of the situation and has a conflict of interest - so to speak - so his involvement won't happen without voter pressure.

[Essex502]

The person in charge of this division at Arizona State Land Department
is Richard Oxford, phone # is (602) 542-4602 or (602) 542-4631. He is out today but will be back in the morning, bombard him with phone calls and letters and get something done.
That's the gentleman's name that's on the letter I received from the State acknowledging receipt of my letter to them. Good point...let's all call him tomorrow....flood the switchboard (do they even have switchboards anymore?)!

[C-2]

The person in charge of this division at Arizona State Land Department
is Richard Oxford, phone # is (602) 542-4602 or (602) 542-4631. He is out today but will be back in the morning, bombard him with phone calls and letters and get something done.
Let's be careful with the phone calls. The state land department is the ultimate authority and seems to be willing to look at the issue further.
Annoying a public office, such as the state land department, by bombarding them with phone calls would not be a wise move IME/IMO.
To date the letters have been concise, accurate and to the point.
As Velocity suggested, keep the letters coming. Thanks Velocity for your willingness to help. :cool:

[Jbb]

Maybe the Mayors office does not care...or maybe its not their jurisdiction...?
State related matters are often taken up at the level of the Governors office...who may direct you to the Beaureu of consumer affairs..and those of you who live there certainly have the right to loudly voice your opinions with your local congressmen..
I feel for you guys and wish you the best in your fight,cause surely as that becomes the accepted standard there..the enviro Nazis around the country will be pushing hard everywhere else.....
I have never once been stopped or tested for anything here....Local LE..here is concerned foremost for peoples safety...If you are acting stupid or in a dangerous manner they will act and they want to see silencers in OT's...but not otherwise
I am afraid if left unchecked ..the Marina situation is gonna end up becoming violent,as it certainly would here.....where EVERYONE is armed...
Like Rex said ..If your State or local officials dont care...hitting their local economy will snap them into reality...
I lived in Ft Lauderdale in the early 80's when the few weeks of College spring break would just about fuel the locals for the entire year.....There were some wild times but local LE handled it well......A few old farts complained loudly enough that some first term polititions all but outlawed spring break activities....The geriactrics were happy ..College kids found elsewhere to go,vowing to not return...and within a year dozens of business went under ...They seemed to forget about the millions of dollars these kids spent in their town every year.The entire area almost went bankrupt...I remember the Chamber of commerce placing ads in college newspapers begging the students to come back...lol...Lesson learned....Good luck!....Jbb

[spectras only]

HD,
Jeff,
You silly little man. Be sure and wave when I "cruise" through the marina on one of my many tours in and out of the slips. :yuk: I think thats a good idea :D .Since "NOBODY" owns the water anywhere in the world ,you can cruise in and out of his marina with your noisy exhaust as long as don't touch the dock [private property] . The government owns the shores [approx 2 meters from the water ] . It's the same with tidal waters at high tide. I have friends with waterfront property they couldn't kick a stranger off "their" shore legally, if those stay within this boundary. Garher a hole bunch of people with boats and cruise up and down in the slip area with placards with the media invited :D

[ROZ]

I lived in Ft Lauderdale in the early 80's when the few weeks of College spring break would just about fuel the locals for the entire year.....There were some wild times but local LE handled it well......A few old farts complained loudly enough that some first term polititions all but outlawed spring break activities....The geriactrics were happy ..College kids found elsewhere to go,vowing to not return...and within a year dozens of business went under ...They seemed to forget about the millions of dollars these kids spent in their town every year.The entire area almost went bankrupt...I remember the Chamber of commerce placing ads in college newspapers begging the students to come back...lol...Lesson learned....Good luck!....Jbb
Same thing happened here in Palm Springs. It took a while for the businesses to recoup after the spring break ban...

[Essex502]

Maybe the Mayors office does not care...or maybe its not their jurisdiction...?
State related matters are often taken up at the level of the Governors office...who may direct you to the Beaureu of consumer affairs..and those of you who live there certainly have the right to loudly voice your opinions with your local congressmen..
I feel for you guys and wish you the best in your fight,cause surely as that becomes the accepted standard there..the enviro Nazis around the country will be pushing hard everywhere else.....
I have never once been stopped or tested for anything here....Local LE..here is concerned foremost for peoples safety...If you are acting stupid or in a dangerous manner they will act and they want to see silencers in OT's...but not otherwise
I am afraid if left unchecked ..the Marina situation is gonna end up becoming violent,as it certainly would here.....where EVERYONE is armed...
Like Rex said ..If your State or local officials dont care...hitting their local economy will snap them into reality...
I lived in Ft Lauderdale in the early 80's when the few weeks of College spring break would just about fuel the locals for the entire year.....There were some wild times but local LE handled it well......A few old farts complained loudly enough that some first term polititions all but outlawed spring break activities....The geriactrics were happy ..College kids found elsewhere to go,vowing to not return...and within a year dozens of business went under ...They seemed to forget about the millions of dollars these kids spent in their town every year.The entire area almost went bankrupt...I remember the Chamber of commerce placing ads in college newspapers begging the students to come back...lol...Lesson learned....Good luck!....Jbb
You are right JB as last year the Mayor's office wrote me and said it isn't their jurisdiction BUT getting involved and contacting the state on behalf of the merchants and businesses that will be affected by this action of the Lake Havasu Marina IS within the jurisdiction AND their RESPONSIBILITY to their constituents. The mayor has a conflict of interest that is apparent to anyone who knows the details.

[LakeRacer]

I just talked with the Mayors office, and they
have had contact with the Marina, but it
comes down to ....It is privately owned.
I could not get any other answers other
then that. I also asked, what happens when
people start boycotting Lake Havasu due to
this problem, and again, the answer was the
same. It is privately owned.
Ok...so tell me what I should do now?
Unless I'm way out in left field for some unknown reason, that land is owned by the State of Arizona. It doesn't appear on the the Mohave County Tax Assesors maps as owned by the marina, and I have a copy of the lease with the State of Arizona. And if the State didn't own it, then why did they send us letters saying they would notify the marina of their transgressions?

[Essex502]

There's a difference between "privately owner business" and "privately owned land". You can own your business and not own the land it sits on. It is common practice in state owned and federally owned parks that the consessions are owned and run by private enterprises under contract with the state or federal government. Katherine Landing on Lake Mohave is undoubtedly the same concessionaire contract.

[Boatcop]

I'm thinking a ramp blockade isn't such a bad idea.
Do not do anything to block access to the launch ramp, from the land or water. It is a Criminal violation, that would force LHC PD, Mohave County SO, or AZGFD to issue tickets, and impound boats, trailers and tow vehicles.
You DO NOT want that to happen.
ARS 5-347. Interference with navigation or launching areas
A. No person shall unreasonably or unnecessarily interfere with other watercraft, with the free and proper use of the waterways of the state or with areas used for launching watercraft onto such waterways. Anchoring or swimming in heavily traveled channels or launching areas shall constitute such interference.
B. No person shall camp or park any vehicle on any boat launching area or otherwise restrict or prevent free access to any area.
Stay within the law when dealing with a situation like this. It gives the cause more credibility, and you will place yourselves above the transgressors.

[Racer277]

So isn't LHM in violation of 'A' quoted above?

[Havasu Cig]

I will give an example to go along with E502's post...
We are attempting to buy a gas dock and store at a local harbor here in So.Cal. and the lease is most likely the same as the Marina's. While we will own the gas dock and the building the store will be in, the land the business sits on is leased and not for sale. While we will own the business we have to abide by the obligations in the lease that we have with both the City and the Harbor District. If we do not follow the lease it can be pulled.
The person we are trying to buy the business from is in trouble because he has not been following the lease and the Haror District wants him out. The Harbor Master has told me that they receive complaints from boaters on a regular bases and this would influence their decision on a lease extension. The current owner knows this and that is why he trying to sell. Once his lease is up he will walk away with nothing. We need to put pressure on the Marina in Havasu and force them into the same situation. They either comply with their lease or they loose it.

[Havasu Cig]

I agree with BC on this, we must fight this in a legal manner.

[Essex502]

Do not do anything to block access to the launch ramp, from the land or water. It is a Criminal violation, that would force LHC PD, Mohave County SO, or AZGFD to issue tickets, and impound boats, trailers and tow vehicles.
You DO NOT want that to happen.
Stay within the law when dealing with a situation like this. It gives the cause more credibility, and you will place yourselves above the transgressors.
Excellent point, Alan. I definitely intend to fight this tyranny (and that is exactly what the Marina has) the proper, legal way to the extent possible. The people have to rise up and say "we're not going to take it any more!".

[robt]

How many of you are willing to act to solve the problem?
i lurked on here for a long time before i joined and this has gone on way to long
you all have a few choices
1) go somewhere else and forget about it and it will go away
(the people that choose this are the ones that will vote for kerry)
2) take your money elsewhere till you change your mind and go back
nice option but nothing will change there are plenty of new boaters every year that will fill your place
(once again a option for the flip flop crowd)
3) stop b!@#$ing about it and do somthing about it
write letters,make calls but keep it going the right way as soon as someone does something stupid like blocking the ramps or... you all lost they will say that is why they do this and then all the family boaters will get behind them
i offered my help if you all can get it on tape when they get blasted on tv and it is shown that state owned and supported land is being used for other thyan the intended uses alot of people will need to answer some ???
as far as the mayors comments if im not wrong he is hooked up with and part owner of a boat builder there or am i wrong if so this could be fun
art i will call you this pm if anyone wants to help out get with art as it seems he is going to try to get me the things i need
rob

[fastnfurious]

Just a temporary alternative for launching until this gets remedied-- my husband and I stay at Havasu Landing across the lake on the CA side. We are currently in the process of purchasing a vacation home there but have had a summer spot on the campground for the past two years. We have a Shockwave 29 mag with a GT performance motor that is pretty loud and have launched all year with no problems. We have even come back into the Marina at 2:00 in the morning with no complaints or warning from security. The next time we are out there I will ask if they will eventually start checking for noise level but I doubt they will since the marina is on tribal land. I am sure they would welcome you all until this is all cleared up. :idea: :smile:

[waterwitch]

as far as the mayors comments if im not wrong he is hooked up with and part owner of a boat builder there or am i wrong if so this could be fun
art i will call you this pm if anyone wants to help out get with art as it seems he is going to try to get me the things i need
rob[/QUOTE]
I believe that boat builder would be Campell boats.
Just an FYI

[robt]

can i get the # for the mayor

[Essex502]

How many of you are willing to act to solve the problem?
i lurked on here for a long time before i joined and this has gone on way to long
you all have a few choices
1) go somewhere else and forget about it and it will go away
(the people that choose this are the ones that will vote for kerry)
2) take your money elsewhere till you change your mind and go back
nice option but nothing will change there are plenty of new boaters every year that will fill your place
(once again a option for the flip flop crowd)
3) stop b!@#$ing about it and do somthing about it
write letters,make calls but keep it going the right way as soon as someone does something stupid like blocking the ramps or... you all lost they will say that is why they do this and then all the family boaters will get behind them
i offered my help if you all can get it on tape when they get blasted on tv and it is shown that state owned and supported land is being used for other thyan the intended uses alot of people will need to answer some ???
as far as the mayors comments if im not wrong he is hooked up with and part owner of a boat builder there or am i wrong if so this could be fun
art i will call you this pm if anyone wants to help out get with art as it seems he is going to try to get me the things i need
rob
I for one am committed to see the Marina's practices altered to conform to the Stated lease. I have personally talked to some of the others on this board who are also very committed. What we lacked this past Saturday was a video camera to record the incident with Havasu Dreamin's boat. I was standing next to the Ramp Ranger as he made his "measurement" (loosely defined) and documented his lack of training in, use or and knowledge of the laws and proper procedures with regards to noise measurement. I took pictures and my wife also took pictures of the incident with a telephoto lens (need to be processed) and I will be posting them tonight.
Thanks for you gracious offer to help and I'll discuss this with Art and see about how to proceed. I will be back in Havasu again soon and we will definitely be loaded for bear this time.

[Essex502]

can i get the # for the mayor
Campbell Boats (http://campbellboats.com/)
I don't know the Mayors telephone number at the city offices....someone else know?

[robt]

also there is a form the mayor must file when he took office listing his share of any bussiness any one tell me what from that is and can someone out there get me a copy of this

[Essex502]

also there is a form the mayor must file when he took office listing his share of any bussiness any one tell me what from that is and can someone out there get me a copy of this
Here's some background:
Bob Whelan (http://www.ci.lake-havasu-city.az.us/City%20Council/mayor.htm)

[LHC30Victory]

I don't launch at the Marina, and haven't for two years. Our boat won't pass (twin 496ho's) and even with Rex's silencers, it's a crapshoot. BUT I will help with any picketing that we can plan.
Perhaps if we organize a couple of weekend pickets both on the land (in an approved area) and on the water at the entrances to the Marina with literature to hand out, MAYBE we can put a dent in their operation immediately. This would also be a good opportunity for NBC to show up :D
I'll be out this weekend, at AMDR in Mojave the 9th but back at Havazoo on the 10th. After that, its open season.
WHO ELSE IS IN??

[H20Advantage]

Looks like the mayor is the President, Lake Havasu Marine Association acccording to his Civic Organization profile.

[bigd1]

Why don't all of you guys get together, pool your money, hire a lawyer (or find a sympathetic one), and file suit against them in civil court. Ask the judge to grant a restraining order against them to prevent them from operating until the matter is resolved. Odds of that ever happening of course are slim but you could also ask the judge to order them to stop preventing launches of any boat until the lawsuit is resolved (which can take YEARS if you want it to).

[Essex502]

I don't launch at the Marina, and haven't for two years. Our boat won't pass (twin 496ho's) and even with Rex's silencers, it's a crapshoot. BUT I will help with any picketing that we can plan.
Perhaps if we organize a couple of weekend pickets both on the land (in an approved area) and on the water at the entrances to the Marina with literature to hand out, MAYBE we can put a dent in their operation immediately. This would also be a good opportunity for NBC to show up :D
I'll be out this weekend, at AMDR in Mojave the 9th but back at Havazoo on the 10th. After that, its open season.
WHO ELSE IS IN??
I'm more than happy to help with the LEGAL picketing effort. We will be back in LHC the weekend of October 8,9,10 and every two weeks thereafter for the balance of the year.

[Essex502]

Why don't all of you guys get together, pool your money, hire a lawyer (or find a sympathetic one), and file suit against them in civil court. Ask the judge to grant a restraining order against them to prevent them from operating until the matter is resolved. Odds of that ever happening of course are slim but you could also ask the judge to order them to stop preventing launches of any boat until the lawsuit is resolved (which can take YEARS if you want it to).
This is being discussed. We are actively looking for legal representation at the moment. An informal fund has been established - more to come.

[gmocnik]

Boatcop....
on the technical side of sound pressure measurement....even an expensive ($2700) db meter has a tolerance of +/- 1.5 db....most "field grade meters state a tolerance of +/- 2.5 db....
everything in life (everything in the engineering world that is) has a tolerance built around it. how does the law, in this case a law that states a hard upper limit (i.e. 88db or whatever) deal with the fact that measurement is inherently inaccurate (+/- 1 to 2 db)....(before the engineering geeks jump on me....meters are accurate to .2 to .4db and precise to +/- 1.5 to 2.5 db)
thanks for your insights
gm

[robt]

your mayor seems to be with you guys not trying to beat you all up
he has given me a quote and it seems fair i'm going to talk to my boss and see if he will foot the bill on me coming out there to do some checking on this story the mayor has even offered to meet with me when i come out so i will pitch the idea in the a.m and see what they say
also who is the head of your e.d.c or c.c
p.s did you all miss the anti kerry remarks i thought i could get some rep for that

[That Guy]

Havasu Cig is right on.....

[Cheap Thrills]

Along with all the legal methods of obtaining a satisfactory launch ramp enviroment , I know a guy that knows a guy that for a price will adjust the egotistical bastards attitude . it's hard to "police" the launch ramp whilst in traction suckin soup through a dixi straw :wink:
C.T. :wink:

[Rexone]

Boatcop....
on the technical side of sound pressure measurement....even an expensive ($2700) db meter has a tolerance of +/- 1.5 db....most "field grade meters state a tolerance of +/- 2.5 db....
everything in life (everything in the engineering world that is) has a tolerance built around it. how does the law, in this case a law that states a hard upper limit (i.e. 88db or whatever) deal with the fact that measurement is inherently inaccurate (+/- 1 to 2 db)....(before the engineering geeks jump on me....meters are accurate to .2 to .4db and precise to +/- 1.5 to 2.5 db)
thanks for your insights
gm
not Boatcop but I do have copies of the J2005 & J1970 standards. Neither that I can see have any reference to the tolerance issue. They do have references to surrounding obsitcals and interference with regards to other noise. I do not have this electronic format but would be happy to fax them to anyone who PM's me with a fax number. They are too lengthly to type out here.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Do not do anything to block access to the launch ramp, from the land or water. It is a Criminal violation, that would force LHC PD, Mohave County SO, or AZGFD to issue tickets, and impound boats, trailers and tow vehicles.
You DO NOT want that to happen.
Stay within the law when dealing with a situation like this. It gives the cause more credibility, and you will place yourselves above the transgressors.
Exactly! We need to heed this advice!

[Debbolas]

I can't believe they are still doing this, the letter I received from the Arizona State Land Department said specificly that the sub-concessionaire is without authority to restrict public use. :confused:

[That Guy]

Lets stay together, stay informed and stay involved. Just from reading this post you can see that there are intelligent, successful people (not the knuckle dragging, jack offs the Marina tries to portray us as) who can bring immense pressure to bear if we stay together. Most of us have been successful in some aspect of our lives to afford these boats, these houses and this lifestyle. Lets take those smarts and work together to get this rectified. This affects all of us....

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Lets stay together, stay informed and stay involved. Just from reading this post you can see that there are intelligent, successful people (not the knuckle dragging, jack offs the Marina tries to portray us as) who can bring immense pressure to bear if we stay together. Most of us have been successful in some aspect of our lives to afford these boats, these houses and this lifestyle. Lets take those smarts and work together to get this rectified. This affects all of us....
Excellent point! you know I'm in for the long haul!

[Bob Noxious]

I called a friend of mine about an hour ago that works in the repair shop at the Lake Havasu Marina and asked him about the use of auxzillyary or trolling motors as a means to launch and leave the marina and he felt this would be an acceptable method for using the marina without being tested. He said though, that if you putted right outside the marina and started throwing revs, it would still be the last time you use the place.
Perhaps somebody needs to invent a small, internal auxillyary motor used to putt-putt away from the ramp?

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I personally have written to the Arizona State Land Department, all of the Lake Havasu City Councilmembers, and sent a copy of all of the letters to Brian Wedemeyer at the Today's News Herald. I am writing another series of letters given the experience of this past weekend. Below are the addresses of everyone I am sending a letter to, you should too.
Edit: I added the State of Arizona House of Representatives and the State of Arizona State Senator.
Arizona State Land Department
Arizona State Land Department
Operations Division
1616 W. Adams
Phoenix, AZ 85007
RE: Havasu Marina Inc
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Lease No. 32-99062
Arizona Senator John McCain
Phoenix Office
2400 E. Arizona Biltmore Cir.
Suite 1150
Phoenix, Arizona 85016
Washington DC Office
241 Russell Senate Ofc. Bldg.
United States Senate
Washington DC 20510
Arizona House of Representatives
Arizona House of Representatives
Attn: Representative Joe Hart
1700 W. Washington
Room 303
Phoenix, AZ 85007
Arizona House of Representatives
Attn: Representative Bill Wagner III
1700 W. Washington
Room 118
Phoenix, AZ 85007
Arizona State Senate
Arizona Senate
Attn: Senator Linda Binder
1700 W. Washington
Room 307
Phoenix, AZ 85007
Lake Havasu City Council
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Honorable Mayor Bob Whelan
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Bob Crabtree
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Carolyn Bruce
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Kristen Leitz-Aldridge
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Paula Fowler
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Don Clark
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Lake Havasu City Council
Attn: Councilmember Vall Striyle
2330 McCulloch Blvd N, Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Mohave county Board of Supervisors
Supervisor Johnson is the District 3 Supervisor which includes Lake Havasu City
Mohave County Board of Supervisors
Buster D Johnson, District 3 Supervisor
2100 College Drive
Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403
Arizona Game and Fish
Arizona Game and Fish
Attn: Arizona Boating Law Administrator
2221 W. Greenway Rd.
Phoenix, AZ 85023-4399
TodayÂ’s News Herald
This is the newspaper for Lake Havasu City
TodayÂ’s News Herald
Attn: Brian Wedemeyer
2225 W Acoma Blvd
Lake Havasu City, AZ 86403

[Tremor Girl]

For those of you who stay in hotels there, buy gas or buy groceries while vacationing there, why don't you write letters or call the businesses you patronize while you're there and let them know if you can't launch your boat at the marina you'll have to vacation at another lake. When you meet people out on the water ask them to take a minute and speak to the managers of the hotels or businesses they use.
If enough local business owners start getting phone calls and letters they might be forcred into doing something. :hammer2:
Just a thought....

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

I will start on them all this evening.. thank you. :smile:

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I will start on them all this evening.. thank you. :smile:
Thank you for the support! We all need to be involved in this.

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

Thank you for the support! We all need to be involved in this.
well thank you for everything you have given us to get started with.. :)

[Seadog]

This is a very screwed up situation!
I would suggest doing this:
1. Hire an attorney.
2. Write or call the manufacturer of your boat and explain that if you cannot boat at Havasu, you will have little need for your current boat or a future model from them. Ask them to please get involve with this issue.
3. Add up your credit card usage at the major businesses you go to and then send them a letter stating that you have contributed $xxxx diollars a year to them and if this persists, you will not be spending anymore money at any business in Havasu.
4. As a group, get all the boats that will meet the regulations and get in line at the marina, whether you have been banned or not. When they ask you to leave, state that you have a legal right to use the facilities unless they can show you that you have violated the law. Have them call the police and accept a ticket. Then have them explain in court why you were refused service. If they test your boat, have someone that is licensed to conduct noise testing there and doing their own tests.
This will tie the ramps up a fair amount, you will get the court system involved, you will require the marina to spend time in court and hopefully, you will have grounds to sue for false arrest. Make sure the media attends the trial and that the state is aware of it and its results.

[Boatcop]

Boatcop....
on the technical side of sound pressure measurement....even an expensive ($2700) db meter has a tolerance of +/- 1.5 db....most "field grade meters state a tolerance of +/- 2.5 db....
everything in life (everything in the engineering world that is) has a tolerance built around it. how does the law, in this case a law that states a hard upper limit (i.e. 88db or whatever) deal with the fact that measurement is inherently inaccurate (+/- 1 to 2 db)....(before the engineering geeks jump on me....meters are accurate to .2 to .4db and precise to +/- 1.5 to 2.5 db)
The statute is silent (pun intended) on the tolerance issue. When charged with violation of the 86db noise limit, it's up to the tryer of fact (judge) to weigh the evidence of accuracy of the device used, and whether the tolerance factor would put the violator in compliance with the law.
What I tell my guys, and the practice we use, is not to bother with anyone unless:
a) There are no muffling devices installed. (A violation in itself, separate from the noise level)
or
b) It is above 95 decibels. That way we give the boater some latitude on the level, and aren't being nit-picky on the 86db part.
It's kind of like the traffic cop giving 5 MPH over the limit before stopping a speeder.
Now that's just us. How any other agencies, even those working in our County (Game and Fish, San Berdoo, CRIT Police, etc), operate is up to them and out of my hands.

[ROZ]

I called a friend of mine about an hour ago that works in the repair shop at the Lake Havasu Marina and asked him about the use of auxzillyary or trolling motors as a means to launch and leave the marina and he felt this would be an acceptable method for using the marina without being tested. He said though, that if you putted right outside the marina and started throwing revs, it would still be the last time you use the place.
Perhaps somebody needs to invent a small, internal auxillyary motor used to putt-putt away from the ramp?
The misunderstanding they have is that they set the standard becuse they hold the lease. They don't. The state says that they are to abide by it's rules and regulations on public access to the water ways.
They are foolish to think that they aren't biting the hand that feeds them...

[gmocnik]

boatcop..
thanks....
i "hear" what you are saying....a little common sense (obviously lacking at LH marina) in enforcement is the right answer...
do you think i can push it to 6 mph over the limit............
gm

[framer1]

Great! Now you can't launch or insure a ***boat. On the bright side insurance should go down if you can't put it in the water :jawdrop:

[phebus]

I am going to add the local Board of Realtors to my list of those to write letters to. It is amazing the power they usually have. Very politically connected, and concerned with the local economy.

[That Guy]

I am going to add the local Board of Realtors to my list of those to write letters to. It is amazing the power they usually have. Very politically connected, and concerned with the local economy.
Another very good idea. They will be directly affected if this BS continues.....

[summerlove]

Maybe the Mayors office does not care...or maybe its not their jurisdiction...?
It's not in their jurisdiction. Cituy's have no control over how a state park is managed, in this case, by concession agreement between the State of Arizona and the Lake Havasu Marina.

[summerlove]

also there is a form the mayor must file when he took office listing his share of any bussiness any one tell me what from that is and can someone out there get me a copy of this
Don't hassle Bob. He's a good guy. Let him know what's up, but please, do it professionally. I don't think you'll find any smoking gun on the guy.

[Essex502]

your mayor seems to be with you guys not trying to beat you all up
he has given me a quote and it seems fair i'm going to talk to my boss and see if he will foot the bill on me coming out there to do some checking on this story the mayor has even offered to meet with me when i come out so i will pitch the idea in the a.m and see what they say
also who is the head of your e.d.c or c.c
p.s did you all miss the anti kerry remarks i thought i could get some rep for that
Thanks for helping, Rob!

[Essex502]

not Boatcop but I do have copies of the J2005 & J1970 standards. Neither that I can see have any reference to the tolerance issue. They do have references to surrounding obsitcals and interference with regards to other noise. I do not have this electronic format but would be happy to fax them to anyone who PM's me with a fax number. They are too lengthly to type out here.
Mike...do you have a copy of the J34 standard as well?

[Essex502]

Here's the folks involved:
"Tony" at the ramp with the Ramp Ranger in the background to the right:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/279tony_n_ramp_ranger1.JPG
Havasu Dreamin' listening to Tony's spiel:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/279tony_n_hd1.JPG
"Tony" with his walkie talkie in Havasu Dreamin's face:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/279crowd_at_testing.JPG

[Rexone]

I don't think I have J34, I will look.
As it turns out we have alot of people and manufacturers too that want copies of the J2005 and J1970 so I will have someone key them in within the next few days. The copies I have are pretty crappy for reproduction anyway.

[Essex502]

I don't think I have J34, I will look.
As it turns out we have alot of people and manufacturers too that want copies of the J2005 and J1970 so I will have someone key them in within the next few days. The copies I have are pretty crappy for reproduction anyway.
You sent me the copies of the J2005 and J1970 a while ago and they were very helpful understanding the testing procedures. I am going to assume the SAE J34 also requires - like the J1970 - only one person near the tester and must be behind him as well. Also, all structure should be nowhere nearby and the meter held at arm's length...that's what the J1970 standard states and again I am assuming the J34 says the same. If the case of the Ramp Ranger at the Lake Havasu Marina none of those conditions/restrictions were complied with. I was there as you can see from how close I took the pictures.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Thanks for the pics E502. Although I look like a house. Time to hit the gym.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

The white haired gentlemen in the blue shirt is the person I referred to as the Manager in my post about the events of Saturday September 25, 2004. I truly do not know what position he has with Lake Havsu Marina other than when the Ramp Ranger made a call for a Manager to come over this is the gentlemen that showed up. The gentlemen in the orange vest back by the Advantage Party Cat is the employee that told me it was ok to launch, that we were good after looking at the mufflers. We did not have any problems with anyone other than the Manager and the Ramp Ranger. We've never had any problems with anyone at the Marina other than this last Saturday in all of the years we have been launching at Lake Havasu Marina.

[summerlove]

Thanks for the pics E502. Although I look like a house. Time to hit the gym.
Ah heck, I thought it was a multi-unit housing complex! :D J/K - I should join that gym with ya!

[mike37]

I can't believe they are still doing this, the letter I received from the Arizona State Land Department said specificly that the sub-concessionaire is without authority to restrict public use. :confused:
maby we all need a copy of that letter to cary with us
if we lounch there
deb can you send me a copy of that letter

[BoatPI]

When this started, i gave my input as to put an abrupt end to this issue. Period.
So I will repeat myself
1. Provide affadavits to a court for an injunction. You will need the state lease issue as to non-restriction of the ramp for public access, or subpeona a state rep to testify or submit an affadavit.
2. Have an attorney bring this to a state court.
3. Obtain this court order, aka injunction .
4. You will ask the court for what you, or the public, is seeking for relief. An example might be no noise testing, allowing any safe boat to launch under a certain legnth.
5. And lastly have the manager, leasee, served. Proof of servive may need to be shown to the PD, or the order and proof of service filed with LHPD. This is manditory in CA on most injunctions.
You may want to ask the court to order this injunction be posted in a public place on the premisis so all can see.
Now, here is when it gets good.
If an employee violates this order, like using the Radio Shack DB meter, or someone is improperly turned away, CALL THE COPS!!!! At this point the violator can be arrested for "violation of a court order". Plain and simple. Now I am no expert on AZ law, but most states have this type of civil injunctive relief and the violation/arrest issue. Somewhat akin to a stay away order for donestic violence.
Thoughts???

[Kachina26]

Thoughts???
I'm not smart enough to pull all of that off, but if anyone is, I WILL contribute $$$$ as will many others. I would like to see this come off even though I don't launch there.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I'm not smart enough to pull all of that off, but if anyone is, I WILL contribute $$$$ as will many others. I would like to see this come off even though I don't launch there.
Contact LakeRacer. Write letters as well!

[LakeRacer]

When this started, i gave my input as to put an abrupt end to this issue. Period.
So I will repeat myself
1. Provide affadavits to a court for an injunction. You will need the state lease issue as to non-restriction of the ramp for public access, or subpeona a state rep to testify or submit an affadavit.
2. Have an attorney bring this to a state court.
3. Obtain this court order, aka injunction .
4. You will ask the court for what you, or the public, is seeking for relief. An example might be no noise testing, allowing any safe boat to launch under a certain legnth.
5. And lastly have the manager, leasee, served. Proof of servive may need to be shown to the PD, or the order and proof of service filed with LHPD. This is manditory in CA on most injunctions.
You may want to ask the court to order this injunction be posted in a public place on the premisis so all can see.
Now, here is when it gets good.
If an employee violates this order, like using the Radio Shack DB meter, or someone is improperly turned away, CALL THE COPS!!!! At this point the violator can be arrested for "violation of a court order". Plain and simple. Now I am no expert on AZ law, but most states have this type of civil injunctive relief and the violation/arrest issue. Somewhat akin to a stay away order for donestic violence.
Thoughts???
We're working on it. Thanks for your input and I'll make sure I pass the info along.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I wanted to make something very clear on this issue. While the events of September 25, 2004 have galvanized my resolve over the abuses inflicted upon on us, the boating public, I am not doing this for personal reasons. Nor are any of the other few individuals in the background that have been pushing for the letter writing campaign and contacting anyone and everyone. We are doing this for all of us. It just so happens to be that I was personally involved in the incident on 9-25-04 and knowing that we are a legal boat I chose to make the events public and prusue this as far as I can. Again, all we are asking for is fair and equal treatment for ALL boaters, no more, no less. This will impact all of us.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Bttt

[Slib77]

Just talked to my buddy who was out there this weekend. He usually launches at Windsor, but they were packed. Saturday he was 1.5db's over the limit (86 is what they told him the limit was). He has a 598 with Shotgun mufflers. He was able to launch and was given a warning. He went back Sunday and was able to launch again 'cause he turned his idle down, the guy noticed this and questioned him. My buddy told him it is now below the limit, the guy checked and it was. He put his boat in backed out of the marina and turned his idle back up. He was told that they were enforcing the 86db limit per the OSHA regs. That it is for the employees of the marina.

[Essex502]

Just talked to my buddy who was out there this weekend. He usually launches at Windsor, but they were packed. Saturday he was 1.5db's over the limit (86 is what they told him the limit was). He has a 598 with Shotgun mufflers. He was able to launch and was given a warning. He went back Sunday and was able to launch again 'cause he turned his idle down, the guy noticed this and questioned him. My buddy told him it is now below the limit, the guy checked and it was. He put his boat in backed out of the marina and turned his idle back up. He was told that they were enforcing the 86db limit per the OSHA regs. That it is for the employees of the marina.
OSHA now? How many times does the Marina's story change? If they're really worried they can get the disposable ear plugs that EVERY manufacturing company issues to their workers that have to be around any kind of noise.
here's a passage fro the OSHA regs for example:
The criterion level is the continuous equivalent 8-hour A-weighted sound level that constitutes 100% of an allowable noise exposure. In other words, the criterion level is the permissible exposure limit (PEL). For OSHA purposes, this is 90 decibels, averaged over an 8-hour period on the A scale of a standard sound level meter set on slow response. Noise measurements taken with an instrument set on the A weighting scale are expressed as dBA.
I haven't read the entire OSHA regs but now will take the time to do so...it seems to me it says 90 db(A) NOT.

[Jbb]

The Marina can invest in these for their employee concerns.....Quiet Please... (http://www.1earplugs.com/safety-ear-plugs.html)

[Slib77]

I guess they are going to start checking planes at LAX.
Oh wait a minute, they supply their employees with hearing protection.

[Essex502]

More interesting OSHA data:
TABLE III:5-2. COMPARISON TABLE OF DURATION PER DAY IN
HOURS TO ALLOWABLE SOUND LEVEL IN dBA
(SLOW-RESPONSE SPL)
Duration per day, hours
Sound level, dBA, slow-response
Duration per day db(A)
8.0 90
6.0 92
4.0 95
2.0 100
1.0 105
0.5 110
0.25 115
I don't see 86 db(A) on this table either.

[Essex502]

If others more knowledgable than I (most of the world ;) ) would like to look into this see this....
http://www.osha-slc.gov/dts/osta/otm/otm_iii/otm_iii_5.html

[robt]

It's not in their jurisdiction. Cituy's have no control over how a state park is managed, in this case, by concession agreement between the State of Arizona and the Lake Havasu Marina.
This is true i have contacted the state and am waiting for a return call
I pitched my idea on this to my clients and have got a go ahead to get the facts and proof if i can get a good story with facts i can get this into primetime tv news shows the boating crowd is growing and everyone can figure out that boaters stick it out as a group so im here to help i need a few things if someone can get them to me
1)a copy of the marina lease
2) the video i was asking for
3)anyone that has had a bad time with the marina and would be willing to talk about the facts
im sure i do not need to say this but please keep it truthful guys as i do this for a hobby but it also is a source of my income so if i get a bunch of b.s it could hurt me
but for my .02 fight it the right way use the media word of mouth or the courts but do not do anything rash it will hurt your cause more than it will help last year i was doing a story on a union strike and they parked trucks blocking all the gates so that the scabs could not leave at that point we dropped the story as they were no longer good hard working people
what im trying to say is think:idea: before you act one dumb move by you could hurt a good cause
rob

[Essex502]

Good points Rob. We don't need "cause" to have us banned from the Marina. What we need is level headed protest and actions to reverse the current policies that are contrary to the concessionaire lease agreement.

[Slib77]

Duration per day db(A)
8.0 90
I don't see 86 db(A) on this table either.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm, I see 8hr work day = 90db(A)

[Havasu Hangin']

Hmmm, I see 8hr work day = 90db(A)
Hmmmm....do they really spend all 8 hours behind a boat?

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Hmmmm....do they really spend all 8 hours behind a boat?
Exactly! And per a Stanford University study the decible level decreases by 6 dbs for each doubling of the distance. For example, if the source of the noise is 10 feet away and is 90 dbs, at 20 feet it will only be 84 dbs, at 40 feet it will only be 78 dbs. I think I quoted that correctly, if not, the person that explained it to me will correct it.

[Slib77]

I forgot something. They told my buddy that the regs state that they measure 32" behind and 20" above ground/waterline.
He said that anything that had through transom with a swimstep did not pass.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I forgot something. They told my buddy that the regs state that they measure 32" behind and 20" above ground/waterline.
ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE!
This is directly from the Arizona Game and Fish Laws and Rules for 2003-2004:
R12-4-516. Watercraft Sound Level Restriction
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to operate a
watercraft upon the waters of this state under any
condition or in any manner that the watercraft
emits a sound level in excess of 86 decibels on the
“A” weighted scale when measured from a distance
of 50 feet or more from the watercraft.
B. This Section shall not apply to watercraft operated
under permits issued in accordance to A.R.S. § 5-
336(C).
The above can be found here (http://www.gf.state.az.us/pdfs/inside_azgfd/all_azgfd_laws.pdf)

[Slib77]

I think he meant the OSHA regs for measuring. Either way, they change their F'n story every time. I think they are trying to throw shit out at people to make them sound like they know what they are talking about, but obviously they can't get their story str8.

[Hallett19]

why dont you guys just get quieter boats ?? :D

[Dave C]

that is a great idea..... tell em you will go somewhere else instead!!!!
(I am sure some of these guys' bar tabs can add up to a significant amount)
demostrate that they are biting the hand that feeds them. If they get pressure from other "locals" maybe they might wise up also.
3. Add up your credit card usage at the major businesses you go to and then send them a letter stating that you have contributed $xxxx diollars a year to them and if this persists, you will not be spending anymore money at any business in Havasu.

[Havasu Hangin']

why dont you guys just get quieter boats ?? :D
It won't matter...the boats are already legal (that's the point).
The marina is practicing discrimination, and saying that they are allowed to do it because it is a private business.

[That Guy]

It won't matter...the boats are already legal (that's the point).
The marina is practicing discrimination, and saying that they are allowed to do it because it is a private business.
You are exactly right...what's next. Blonde haired guys can't launch? Blue boats...you get the idea. :confused: Well actually I'm more concerned if they won't let blonde haired hotties ride in the boats...that would suck. :D

[Essex502]

What if the Marina says that they won't allow African-Americans to launch? With their logic, that would be perfectly within their rights. Bull$hit!
We have boats. We are legal in BOTH California and Arizona. We have the right to use a public ramp. We have the right to launch at Lake Havasu Marina as long as we follow reasonable rules. This rule they have implemented is UNREASONABLE.

[Huckleberry]

You are exactly right...what's next. Blonde haired guys can't launch? Blue boats...you get the idea. :confused: Well actually I'm more concerned if they won't let blonde haired hotties ride in the boats...that would suck. :D
You'd have to leave momma at home every lake trip!

[That Guy]

You'd have to leave momma at home every lake trip!
That will make her day...thanks. Keep up the fight. :D

[LakeRacer]

This is true i have contacted the state and am waiting for a return call
I pitched my idea on this to my clients and have got a go ahead to get the facts and proof if i can get a good story with facts i can get this into primetime tv news shows the boating crowd is growing and everyone can figure out that boaters stick it out as a group so im here to help i need a few things if someone can get them to me
1)a copy of the marina lease
2) the video i was asking for
3)anyone that has had a bad time with the marina and would be willing to talk about the facts
im sure i do not need to say this but please keep it truthful guys as i do this for a hobby but it also is a source of my income so if i get a bunch of b.s it could hurt me
but for my .02 fight it the right way use the media word of mouth or the courts but do not do anything rash it will hurt your cause more than it will help last year i was doing a story on a union strike and they parked trucks blocking all the gates so that the scabs could not leave at that point we dropped the story as they were no longer good hard working people
what im trying to say is think:idea: before you act one dumb move by you could hurt a good cause
rob
Robt, call me...I have alot of the information ready to go. One thing we will need and it can be done this weekend is video. Call me asap.

[Grizzwald]

the local d*#@ head fish cop was going around
arresting anyone with a boat that was louder than
a hand clap. said he didnt need a meter to test
sound, if he thought it was too loud, it was. then
someone took him to court and the judge put him
in his place.

[ClownRoyal]

What about ***boat and all of their boat tests? Don't they launch at the Marina? What about all of the local boat manufacturers? I assume most launch at Windser due to proximaty. But if everyone including Magic, Conquest, E-Ticket, Advantage, etc. have to constantly 'watch their back' what is going to happen? Sorry for all the questions. Just a concerned boater and homeowner in Havasu.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

What about ***boat and all of their boat tests? Don't they launch at the Marina? What about all of the local boat manufacturers? I assume most launch at Windser due to proximaty. But if everyone including Magic, Conquest, E-Ticket, Advantage, etc. have to constantly 'watch their back' what is going to happen? Sorry for all the questions. Just a concerned boater and homeowner in Havasu.
That's why it would be great to get the builders involved. Keith from Conquest is the only builder representative on here on a regular basis.
Thanks for making this a sticky, this is a very impotant issue to all of us!

[Dave C]

you guys need to get one of those hidden camera dealios... put the camera inside a bag, cut a hole and carry it around with you.
that would be great.
BTW have you guys tried contacting the "owner" of the lease and send them a copy of the law that as the leaseholder they are not allowed to infringe upon your rights to the waterway without just cause?
that is the key right there.

[beer hunter]

That's why it would be great to get the builders involved. Keith from Conquest is the only builder representative on here on a regular basis.
Thanks for making this a sticky, this is a very impotant issue to all of us!
I do know ULTRA28 i.e. John West of Ultra Boats is on the boards occasionally.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I do know ULTRA28 i.e. John West of Ultra Boats is on the boards occasionally.
That's right, I forgot about that.

[SHOTKALLIN]

everyone should bring a video camera while launching at the marina. its his word against mine unless you have video. video of the threats, improper unauthorized testing, and most of all their attitude and nasty demeanor. then when several people with diffferent video of different situations you can file a complaint with the state / and or sue the STATE for allowing the marina to violate state law.

[SHOTKALLIN]

Everyone should bring a video camera while launching at the marina. Its his word against Yours unless you have video. Video of the threats, improper and unauthorized testing, and most of all their attitude and nasty demeanor. then when several people with diffferent video of different situations you can file a complaint with the state / and or sue the STATE for allowing the marina to violate state law.
I am not one for suing but in todays society its sometimes the only way to cause change. until it involves the state directly they will continue to kiss you off. Reason is someone either is friends with someone, or someone has someone in someone's pocket.
just my .02
Without video Rodney King would have just got what he deserved.....a extra large can of WHOOP ASS!

[SHOTKALLIN]

Wow!!! My First Double Post! :d

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I was discussing this with some friends of mine that are not into boating but they had some very interesting things to say about it.
First, last time any of us checked, no business or its employees or even any other private citizen has the legal authority to enforce State or Federal laws. I suppose what the marina is doing could be construed as a citizens arrest type of deal but is it really? Do "citizens arrest" even exist or is it just something out of the movies?
Second, one friend asked about just blocking access to the marina. I explained that we were instructed that it would be a violation of the law to obstruct access to the marina. My friend then said, "Well, what about them? Since it is on State owned property that the marina leases from the State, and a condition of their lease that they provide access to a public launch ramp, wouldn't they be in violation of the same law?" Seems to make sense to me.

[JustMVG]

Is there any kind of Consumer Reporter with the local news or radio that can investigate this issue, the news jumps on all of the party stuff, and i would think that showing a boat with the kind of power thats in the boat in question and is quiet would be a great story and have a positive spin on "Hot Boating" rather than the debauchery stories that seem to make the news.
Mike VG

[Charley]

Art... lets get a class action Lawsuit going... I'm in for $100 and if 99 more boat owners pony up we got enough $$ for a real legal start. Many very good lawyers will start this for $10k and will continue once they see the light at the end of the tunnel...lets make the suit big enough to screw em out of the lease completely.... the only way we win is if they leave, and the only way they leave is if we take the money away that keeps the place alive... boycotts a nice thought but they already know what I know... They will survive with out us.... SUE the ass off em and boycott, 1-2 punch and they will fall

[RiverPirate]

Why not use their own webcam. It shows most of the Marina just fine. The address is http://170.215.57.242/local/ . I don't have the expertise to figure out how to record it, but, if I can view it on my screen someone here can figure out how to record it. I don't beleive that it has audio, but I know a picture is worth at least a thousand words or so the saying goes.

[Ivan Dan]

I've said this before and I will say it again......QUIT FRIGGIN GOING THERE!!! Thats the easiest way to kill thier business. If we all stick together and boycott the Marina things are bound to change eventually.

[Essex502]

you guys need to get one of those hidden camera dealios... put the camera inside a bag, cut a hole and carry it around with you.
that would be great.
BTW have you guys tried contacting the "owner" of the lease and send them a copy of the law that as the leaseholder they are not allowed to infringe upon your rights to the waterway without just cause?
that is the key right there.
I didn't need to hide the camera...I stood right out in the open and took pictures. Also, I stood right next to the Ramp Ranger when he metered the boats with my own noise meter. They didn't care...
Here's one I took:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/279tony_n_hd1.JPG
The wife took more with a 400mm lensed 35mm camera which we will get developed this weekend and post any that are appropriate to this thread.

[SDLifesaver]

We were there this last weekend also and all we were asked as we approached the decline towards the ramp where the road can also go left was "Is your exhaust above or below the water?" We said below and the guy said stay to the left. No measurement, just a F@#$ing joke watching the cluster they created by dividing the ramp and using the #1 lane for testing. There were some PISSED OFF people who had to leave. Same story as the original storyteller though, maybe 10' behind the back of these boats. We will be going to Windsor from now on. We always buy at least a 3 day pass, so in 4 trips we will pay for our launch pass to Windsor. I have always liked the marina but this stuff is a joke. The locals need to get involved here big time. I like Charlies idea of Class Action Lawsuit. I'm in for C note. Nick

[Essex502]

I've said this before and I will say it again......QUIT FRIGGIN GOING THERE!!! Thats the easiest way to kill thier business. If we all stick together and boycott the Marina things are bound to change eventually.
I would agree completely but the other launch facilities can't handle the load by themselves. That was somewhat proven last Saturday when Windsor was reportedly full by the afternoon on a late (after Labor Day) weekend. Long lines were also reported. The sheltered nature of the Marina makes it a very nice facility that we, as boaters, and some of us as local taxpayers in LHC have a right to use. I put only my launch fees into the Marina's pocket - not one cent more. If I need gas on the lake I motor across to Havasu Landing.

[beer hunter]

I've said this before and I will say it again......QUIT FRIGGIN GOING THERE!!! Thats the easiest way to kill thier business. If we all stick together and boycott the Marina things are bound to change eventually.
I do agree that we need to boycott the marina Dan but this alone is not the solution.
Lake Havasu Marina seems to be perfectly willing to discourage our patronage of their business in violation of their lease contract and as others have stated, this will affect EVERYONE at other ramps because of the increased traffic at those ramps.
This could also create a safety issue for smaller boats that aren't allowed to launch/retrieve in the relative safety of the marina should bad weather come up, putting families and children at risk. ;)
* Note... This may be a good point to make when writing the various agencies regarding these matters as I'm sure they want to avoid any potential liability concerns, especially considering the carnage that happened at Windsor back in April
We all need to write letters to the appropriate agencies to try and get the marina to abide by its contract. :)

[Seadog]

I think it is true that they are monitoring this site. No sooner did lake Pirate post the web cab site, than it no longer has a picture. :confused:

[Keithb87]

try it again... works fine... unless it's a recorded image. ramp is empty. :D

[Essex502]

It is a fact that the Marina IS MONITORING ***boat FORUMS. We know it and have first hand evidence of it.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I've said this before and I will say it again......QUIT FRIGGIN GOING THERE!!! Thats the easiest way to kill thier business. If we all stick together and boycott the Marina things are bound to change eventually.
That will not work, they obviously are willing to give up the performance boating business so obviously they don't need the additional income.
The problem is that they are wrong and are violating the terms of their lease with the State and are in no position to perform noise testing. They do not have that auhority!

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I think it is true that they are monitoring this site. No sooner did lake Pirate post the web cab site, than it no longer has a picture. :confused:
It' a free site so they have just as much right to monitor the forums as we have to complain about what is happening there.

[HAULASSHENRY]

here we go again you folks spend time on issues that are meaningless its apparent that the marina people are getting heat from someone be it the state or the management of the ramp to start controlling noise we all know that noise restrictions are coming and we are gonna have to deal with it eventually. your fighting a losing battle get yourself some mufflers that are easlily taken out after you launch and be done with it the marina doesnt care about your boat or you business OR FLAT GO SOMEWHERE ELSE TO LAUNCH I HAVENT LAUNCED AT THAT MARINA IN YEARS CAUSE ITS TOO CROWDED AND THERE ARE TOO MANY YAHOOS THERE ANYWAYS geez guys it seems that most of you launch your boat drive it to the bridge and park it and drink beer all day anyways so dont worry about it i cant believe that people sit in the channel and drink beer all day and smell the fumes of all the otherboaters and the pollution so i think your partially nuts anyways that my input

[Havasu_Dreamin]

here we go again you folks spend time on issues that are meaningless its apparent that the marina people are getting heat from someone be it the state or the management of the ramp to start controlling noise we all know that noise restrictions are coming and we are gonna have to deal with it eventually. your fighting a losing battle get yourself some mufflers that are easlily taken out after you launch and be done with it the marina doesnt care about your boat or you business OR FLAT GO SOMEWHERE ELSE TO LAUNCH I HAVENT LAUNCED AT THAT MARINA IN YEARS CAUSE ITS TOO CROWDED AND THERE ARE TOO MANY YAHOOS THERE ANYWAYS geez guys it seems that most of you launch your boat drive it to the bridge and park it and drink beer all day anyways so dont worry about it i cant believe that people sit in the channel and drink beer all day and smell the fumes of all the otherboaters and the pollution so i think your partially nuts anyways that my input
HAH, I for one do not just launch our boat and drive to the channel and sit and drink beer all day. We really do not even go into the channel, we prfer somewhere else South on the lake as it more peaceful. Also, we don't even take alcohol out on the boat with us unless our neighbors in town go with us. And even then, we do not drink while out on the lake. I do not drink any alcohol while out on the lake, I've got too much to lose and as you said, there are other "yahoos", your words not mine, to worry about.
You're correct, the noise laws are here, they have been on the books for decades, with the CA law getting more restrictive. As such, we took the proactive step and had Silencers installed. The point of this whole thing is that we do have Silencers installed, full time, I can't just remove them or swtich them off like Silent Choice. These silencers have been tested and make our boat legal under the law in both AZ and CA and I was still hasseld and banned from the marina. That is what is not right since the marina has no authority conduct noise levels and even if they did they need to be performed to specifications as set forth by the law.

[Rexone]

here we go again you folks spend time on issues that are meaningless its apparent that the marina people are getting heat from someone be it the state or the management of the ramp to start controlling noise we all know that noise restrictions are coming and we are gonna have to deal with it eventually. your fighting a losing battle get yourself some mufflers that are easlily taken out after you launch and be done with it the marina doesnt care about your boat or you business OR FLAT GO SOMEWHERE ELSE TO LAUNCH I HAVENT LAUNCED AT THAT MARINA IN YEARS CAUSE ITS TOO CROWDED AND THERE ARE TOO MANY YAHOOS THERE ANYWAYS geez guys it seems that most of you launch your boat drive it to the bridge and park it and drink beer all day anyways so dont worry about it i cant believe that people sit in the channel and drink beer all day and smell the fumes of all the otherboaters and the pollution so i think your partially nuts anyways that my input
and we have a winner.
and a newrunonsentance national champion. Congrats HAH :notam:

[beer hunter]

and we have a winner.
and a newrunonsentance national champion. Congrats HAH :notam:
LAUGHMYASSOFF :D

[TexasJet]

Shot ya a rep point for that one Rex. :cool:

[Essex502]

here we go again you folks spend time on issues that are meaningless its apparent that the marina people are getting heat from someone be it the state or the management of the ramp to start controlling noise we all know that noise restrictions are coming and we are gonna have to deal with it eventually. your fighting a losing battle get yourself some mufflers that are easlily taken out after you launch and be done with it the marina doesnt care about your boat or you business OR FLAT GO SOMEWHERE ELSE TO LAUNCH I HAVENT LAUNCED AT THAT MARINA IN YEARS CAUSE ITS TOO CROWDED AND THERE ARE TOO MANY YAHOOS THERE ANYWAYS geez guys it seems that most of you launch your boat drive it to the bridge and park it and drink beer all day anyways so dont worry about it i cant believe that people sit in the channel and drink beer all day and smell the fumes of all the otherboaters and the pollution so i think your partially nuts anyways that my input
Boy are you wrong on so many levels...
Crowded? Not when we launch on Friday mornings nor Saturday mornings...we almost always launch before 10:00A and until this past Saturday we haven't waited on any occasion more than 5 minutes to launch on any weekend we have been in Havasu this year. We are there every other weekend and have been on the water since March. We retrieve before 3:00P and virtually never have to wait to retrieve.
Smell the fumes? Nope..we avoid the channel like the plague.
Get mufflers? Get real, dude, we are LEGAL by the laws of CALIFORNIA and ARIZONA concerning noise including the more stringent California law going into effect January 1st.
We are NOT the punks and trash that make you LHC residents seem to cringe. We are professionals, business owners and others who own property (in my case multiples) in LHC and pay property taxes in Arizona. We shop in your stores, we buy furniture, we build homes (now 2), we buy fuel, we use your builders and contractors, we eat well in your restaurants and we tip well. What we want is the rights afforded to us under the concessionaire contract in force between the State of Arizona and the Lake Havasu Marina Corp.

[Huckleberry]

Boy are you wrong on so many levels...
Crowded? Not when we launch on Friday mornings nor Saturday mornings...we almost always launch before 10:00A and until this past Saturday we haven't waited on any occasion more than 5 minutes to launch on any weekend we have been in Havasu this year. We are there every other weekend and have been on the water since March. We retrieve before 3:00P and virtually never have to wait to retrieve.
Smell the fumes? Nope..we avoid the channel like the plague.
Get mufflers? Get real, dude, we are LEGAL by the laws of CALIFORNIA and ARIZONA concerning noise including the more stringent California law going into effect January 1st.
We are NOT the punks and trash that make you LHC residents seem to cringe. We are professionals, business owners and others who own property (in my case multiples) in LHC and pay property taxes in Arizona. We shop in your stores, we buy furniture, we build homes (now 2), we buy fuel, we use your builders and contractors, we eat well in your restaurants and we tip well. What we want is the rights afforded to us under the concessionaire contract in force between the State of Arizona and the Lake Havasu Marina Corp.
AMEN Brutha!!!

[That Guy]

and we have a winner.
and a newrunonsentance national champion. Congrats HAH :notam:
Rex: You're killing me......lmao :D

[WaterBox]

Please remember, I do not believe the person that we dealt with was Jeff. the gentlemen we dealt with was an older white haired gent and I believe his name was Tony. I personally have never had a run in with anyone at the Marina other than what occurred this past weekend and with these two employees.
Gentlemen you say ? Others in town have a different opinion. If it's the same Tony, which I'm sure it is Iv'e seen him over there.
Name; Tony Meyer
Ocupation; Pool Cleaner- retired
Loud Boat; Yes- if he still has it.
Personal parking spot on Fat Man Bend; Yes.
Power freak; Yes
Dick Head; ???
Can't figure this out, Thought this guy was one of us. Always spent alot of time up at speed alley, His son-in-law own's one of the High Preformance Boat shops here in Havasu. [ Big Loud Boats] He must be in some ones pocket big time...

[WaterBox]

I didn't need to hide the camera...I stood right out in the open and took pictures. Also, I stood right next to the Ramp Ranger when he metered the boats with my own noise meter. They didn't care...
Here's one I took:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/279tony_n_hd1.JPG
The wife took more with a 400mm lensed 35mm camera which we will get developed this weekend and post any that are appropriate to this thread.
None of the people here is Tony Right???

[HAULASSHENRY]

well i for one am a business owner and own multiple properties also and i havent until this last weekend ever been in havasu or the river for that fact for at least 10 years on a saturday so maybee i have a unreal perception of how things are on the weekends but when i was there last saturday i saw nuthing but confusion at the ramp a bunch of yahoos yellin at each other and spoiling the whole purpose of the area and its relaxed atmosphere i saw boats crowding each other i go on vacation to enjoy myself and not have to or want to deal with the launch ramp everyone one of you guys has a big fancy truck pull it up on the sand near a beach and dump your boat in and be done with it why you want to stress over the beauocrats at the ramp at the marina is by me DONT YOU FOLKS HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO THAN BITCH ABOUT THE WORTHLESS MARINA AND ITS RULES

[Havasu_Dreamin]

None of the people here is Tony Right???
I'm the one in the hat and the gentlemen in the blue shirt is the one I heard the Ramp Ranger refer to as Tony. He is also the gentleman that I referred in my synopsis of the issue on 9-25-04 as the Manager since he is the one that came over when the Ramp Ranger asked for a Manager.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

DONT YOU FOLKS HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO THAN BITCH ABOUT THE WORTHLESS MARINA AND ITS RULES
I think you are missing the point of the issue we are complaining about. But that's cool, it's a free country and everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Just as everyone is entitled to be treated equally under the law, not arbitrary rules.

[havasuhank]

What's with HAULASSHENRY? Stay out the fast lane pal...Quit bitching about loyal boaters just expressing their own opinions. Get a real job and shut the hell up!!!

[boxscore]

HELL... I'll pony up $200 for hiring some legal help. And I dont even launch there. $10,000 oughta perk the ears of most attys around.
Charley $100
Boxscore $200

[Essex502]

HELL... I'll pony up $200 for hiring some legal help. And I dont even launch there. $10,000 oughta perk the ears of most attys around.
Charley $100
Boxscore $200
My $200 has already been offered!

[Havasu_Dreamin]

My $200 has already been offered!
As has mine.

[Essex502]

well i for one am a business owner and own multiple properties also and i havent until this last weekend ever been in havasu or the river for that fact for at least 10 years on a saturday so maybee i have a unreal perception of how things are on the weekends but when i was there last saturday i saw nuthing but confusion at the ramp a bunch of yahoos yellin at each other and spoiling the whole purpose of the area and its relaxed atmosphere i saw boats crowding each other i go on vacation to enjoy myself and not have to or want to deal with the launch ramp everyone one of you guys has a big fancy truck pull it up on the sand near a beach and dump your boat in and be done with it why you want to stress over the beauocrats at the ramp at the marina is by me DONT YOU FOLKS HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO THAN BITCH ABOUT THE WORTHLESS MARINA AND ITS RULES
All summer long and last summer too for that matter we have launched at the Marina without undue incident or delay. We do skip all 3 day holiday weekends.
DONT YOU FOLKS HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO THAN BITCH ABOUT THE WORTHLESS MARINA AND ITS RULES
With the above sentiment we'd still be a British colony.

[C-2]

With the above sentiment we'd still be a British colony.
Yeah, a PENAL colony since we're all a bunch of hell raising vagrants. lol :hammer2:

[Havasu Cig]

As has mine.
I am in for some $$$ as well. As soon as Art lets us know what we need I am ready to write a check.

[LakeRacer]

well i for one am a business owner and own multiple properties also and i havent until this last weekend ever been in havasu or the river for that fact for at least 10 years on a saturday so maybee i have a unreal perception of how things are on the weekends but when i was there last saturday i saw nuthing but confusion at the ramp a bunch of yahoos yellin at each other and spoiling the whole purpose of the area and its relaxed atmosphere i saw boats crowding each other i go on vacation to enjoy myself and not have to or want to deal with the launch ramp everyone one of you guys has a big fancy truck pull it up on the sand near a beach and dump your boat in and be done with it why you want to stress over the beauocrats at the ramp at the marina is by me DONT YOU FOLKS HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO THAN BITCH ABOUT THE WORTHLESS MARINA AND ITS RULES
You make it sound like it's such a simple fix. You ignore EVERYTHING that people have said about the inconsistent policies and concentrate on the noise only. You also don't bother to acknowledge the fact that the marina is required by contract to provide a boat ramp for the PUBLIC to use. We are the public and we have a right to use that ramp. My boat is 34ft and I can't just go and launch at the nearest beach.
We will prevail.

[boxscore]

Charley 100
Boxscore 200
Essex502 200
Havasu Dreamin 200
Havasu Cig 100
Now THIS is a good cause.

[havasuhank]

HAULASSHENRY, you are missing the point big time. We bring a ton of cash into the LHC area. All we're asking for is to be treated fair (and consistent) under the laws. Believe it or not, some of us here in LHC are business owners & own multiple properties. So you don't have a monolopy on that. If we are being treated unfairly, we have a right to voice our opinion in an attempt to make it right. We are not asking for anything except what we are entitled to. Most of us here are not you typical California weekend warriors who try to cram 4 days worth of partying into a weekend. You are the ones who give boaters a bad name. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not bad mouthing Californians. I relocated to LHC from L.A. 4 years ago and have never been happier.
Just one mans opinion...

[That Guy]

well i for one am a business owner and own multiple properties also and i havent until this last weekend ever been in havasu or the river for that fact for at least 10 years on a saturday so maybee i have a unreal perception of how things are on the weekends but when i was there last saturday i saw nuthing but confusion at the ramp a bunch of yahoos yellin at each other and spoiling the whole purpose of the area and its relaxed atmosphere i saw boats crowding each other i go on vacation to enjoy myself and not have to or want to deal with the launch ramp everyone one of you guys has a big fancy truck pull it up on the sand near a beach and dump your boat in and be done with it why you want to stress over the beauocrats at the ramp at the marina is by me DONT YOU FOLKS HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO THAN BITCH ABOUT THE WORTHLESS MARINA AND ITS RULES
Please let me know what type of business an illiterate a-hole that can't spell "maybe" owns. You are making an absolute fool of yourself. You don't own a business, you can barely speak english and you are wasting everyone's time with your inane and idiotic commentary. This is a serious issue that IS going to get resolved. All everyone wants is fair and legal treatment and access to the launch facilities at the Marina...now go away. :devil:

[That Guy]

Charley 100
Boxscore 200
Essex502 200
Havasu Dreamin 200
Havasu Cig 100
Now THIS is a good cause.
Count me in for $200......

[LakeRacer]

I'm in for $200
Some of you have pm'd me and I've read the mail. I've been slammed at my office for the last few days and haven't had much time to respond. Sorry.
When I get a chance to set up a "legal expense fund" account at a bank, I'll let you guys know when to send the money.
The marina may want to silence our boats, but they won't be able to silence our voices.

[Havasu Cig]

Charley 100
Boxscore 200
Essex502 200
Havasu Dreamin 200
Havasu Cig 100
Now THIS is a good cause.
You can count me in for more than $100. When the time comes I will gladly pay some money to force the Marina to comply with their lease.

[Huckleberry]

I'm in for two Benjamins also.

[slowinhavasu]

FYI...The Gentlmen in the photo, "Tony" is not in relation to "Kelly"....
Lets leave any reference to family members, who ever they may be, out of this thread.
Stay with the issue at hand........
LOUD PIPES SAVE LIFES...... :rollside:

[mike37]

I looked over the lake Havasu marina contract that LAKE RACER sent me
And there were some mention of the marina not allowing any thing illegal to AZ state law
then the marina would be required to turn you away if they know you are illegal
Like any drunk and disorderly people
But if you are totally legitimate and a calm person when dealing with the marina staff you can not be turned away per there contract with the state
Now they may set standards for safety reasons like boat length say your boat may be to long to maneuver safely in the marina you could be turned away
So far Havasu Dreamin is the only one I know of that has bin turned away that has tested there boat
And can say for a fact that there legitimate and have gotten turned away for no god reason
He is the only one of us that may have a legitimate complaint
So if your boat is not legal per AZ law you may be out of luck
Now I donÂ’t think that the marina is conducting there test with any set standard and there employees are not trained to use the equipment properly we may win on that point
The marina may get there stuff together and start testing per the proper AZ test requirements
You all will have a hard time fighting them if that happens
Now you all donÂ’t give me any bad rep for this post just stating what I read in the contract IM no lawyer

[mike37]

on another note the contract seems to say the the marina concessioner
must set up to serve the public and make the place as accessible as possible
to any one that wants to use the place if they don't do that they my loose there contract

[Havasu Hangin']

Now they may set standards for safety reasons like boat length say your boat may be to long to maneuver safely in the marina you could be turned away..
OK...but who decides what is safe? I have video from a couple years ago of the F-34's launching there, and they had no problem. In fact, the length rule is fairly new?
Just like noise...what is "safe" can be used as to discriminate against legal boats.

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

Hey Steve (sbark1),
That $200 bucks would buy a lot of that "Hava-Gold-Special-Brew" that you were handin' out at the SanBar....... :D
Hehehehehehehehe!!!!
It was great to hang with you and Denise at the regatta!!!
CJG
:cool:

[mbrown2]

Hell, I launch at the Springs, but count me in for $100....once the account is setup, let me know..

[mike37]

OK...but who decides what is safe? I have video from a couple years ago of the F-34's launching there, and they had no problem. In fact, the length rule is fairly new?
Just like noise...what is "safe" can be used as to discriminate against legal boats.
the marina my set the standard
but if you can prove that the standard is faulty and they set it to keep you away because you guys with big boats cause trouble the state governing agency
may force them to Chang the policy

[waterwitch]

FYI...The Gentlmen in the photo, "Tony" is not in relation to "Kelly"....
Lets leave any reference to family members, who ever they may be, out of this thread.
Stay with the issue at hand........
LOUD PIPES SAVE LIFES...... :rollside:
I just wanted to CONFIRM this also. The "Tony" that
said you were fine the first time, "is" in fact Tony Meyer.
He is just one of the guys, hangs with everyone, NOT
a manager. So everyone that knows him (and everyone
does) doesn't think Mr. Meyers was the one being an
ass. The gentleman ( I use the term loosely) is in
no relation to Tony Meyer or Kelly.
Thanks... :)

[H20Advantage]

How loud and big is this boat?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/803Yahoo_boat.jpg
These are the "Yahoos" the marina should be worried about not the large boats with stock manufacturer exhaust.
Looks like the large boats are quietly parked on the shore not causing problems for anyone.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I just wanted to CONFIRM this also. The "Tony" that
said you were fine the first time, "is" in fact Tony Meyer.
He is just one of the guys, hangs with everyone, NOT
a manager. So everyone that knows him (and everyone
does) doesn't think Mr. Meyers was the one being an
ass. The gentleman ( I use the term loosely) is in
no relation to Tony Meyer or Kelly.
Thanks... :)
Thank you for clearing that up. In fact, in one of my posts I mention that I have never had a problem with anyone at the marina other than the gentleman in the blue shirt, he is the one that came over after the Ramp Ranger called a manager, and the Ramp Ranger.
Also, Mr. Meyer was not then nor has he ever been a problem. He has always been very friendly and very helpful.

[C-2]

ItÂ’s a PUBLIC CONCESSION contract.
Its very definition is a contract with a private business to provide products and services TO PARK VISITORS. Providing enhanced services to the public (that are not otherwise offered by the state or federal government agency) is the SOLE PURPOSE OF THE CONTRACT. Obviously the government gives the private business an opportunity to make money on the contract – and of course the government agency also gets a percentage of the profits. But make no mistake about it; the primary purpose of the contract is to enhance a public park visit - NOT TO RESTRICT IT.
LHM is no different than a hotdog vendor with a concession contract at Yellowstone. The hotdog guy can’t do what he wants just because he is a private business. He can’t refuse service to certain races, or refuse to abide by the terms of the contract. And similarly, he can’t refuse service to any customer who he might think is an illegal alien. Sure, being an illegal alien is a crime – we have laws in place that say so. But it doesn’t give hotdog guy the right to card somebody and based upon his findings - refuse service or kick the person off Yellowstone property.
Another angle is parallel to emission checks in Cali. Sure, every car must meet minimum emission standards – but when we go to a state park or lake - some knucklehead employee doesn’t run up behind the car, throw a smog thingamajiggy into the tailpipe and then tell us we must leave because we don’t meet emission standards. It’s pretty much the same thing at the marina. Fortunately in Cali the state recognizes there must be a set standard and place for testing.
The bottom line is the concession contract was awarded with numerous (and I mean numerous) provisions in it to provide public access to the lake, via the land where LHM sits. Had these provisions not been agreed to by LHM – then the contract would have been awarded to somebody else.
Fast forward 35 years and LHM has obviously lost sight of the fact they are under a strict and very specific contract, with numerous default provisions in it for failing to perform. If the state crawls up the marina’s *ss – they are going to have problems.
Write a letter not only addressing your specific incident and concerns – but also ask the state land department to take action against the marina.
:)

[Havasu Hangin']

According to an inside source, the majority of the Marina's income is from slip rentals and the store/gas.
The owner's attitude is that he could care less about losing launching revenue, so he choses to discourage performance boats because "he can".
Like C2 said...I think they need a wakeup call on what they are really there for.

[beer hunter]

C-2, that was one of the best posts I've seen on this subject and hits at the essence of this whole issue with the marina...they are not living up to their commitment (per the contract) to provide services to the public. :)

[phebus]

According to an inside source, the majority of the Marina's income is from slip rentals and the store/gas.
The owner's attitude is that he could care less about losing launching revenue, so he choses to discourage performance boats because "he can".
Like C2 said...I think they need a wakeup call on what they are really there for.
I was told exactly that by an employee of the Marina. He said if Jeff had his way, they would just close the launch ramp. The profits made off the 300 slips is where the money is.

[mike37]

ItÂ’s a PUBLIC CONCESSION contract.
Its very definition is a contract with a private business to provide products and services TO PARK VISITORS. Providing enhanced services to the public (that are not otherwise offered by the state or federal government agency) is the SOLE PURPOSE OF THE CONTRACT. Obviously the government gives the private business an opportunity to make money on the contract – and of course the government agency also gets a percentage of the profits. But make no mistake about it; the primary purpose of the contract is to enhance a public park visit - NOT TO RESTRICT IT.
LHM is no different than a hotdog vendor with a concession contract at Yellowstone. The hotdog guy can’t do what he wants just because he is a private business. He can’t refuse service to certain races, or refuse to abide by the terms of the contract. And similarly, he can’t refuse service to any customer who he might think is an illegal alien. Sure, being an illegal alien is a crime – we have laws in place that say so. But it doesn’t give hotdog guy the right to card somebody and based upon his findings - refuse service or kick the person off Yellowstone property.
Another angle is parallel to emission checks in Cali. Sure, every car must meet minimum emission standards – but when we go to a state park or lake - some knucklehead employee doesn’t run up behind the car, throw a smog thingamajiggy into the tailpipe and then tell us we must leave because we don’t meet emission standards. It’s pretty much the same thing at the marina. Fortunately in Cali the state recognizes there must be a set standard and place for testing.
The bottom line is the concession contract was awarded with numerous (and I mean numerous) provisions in it to provide public access to the lake, via the land where LHM sits. Had these provisions not been agreed to by LHM – then the contract would have been awarded to somebody else.
Fast forward 35 years and LHM has obviously lost sight of the fact they are under a strict and very specific contract, with numerous default provisions in it for failing to perform. If the state crawls up the marina’s *ss – they are going to have problems.
Write a letter not only addressing your specific incident and concerns – but also ask the state land department to take action against the marina.
:)that sums it up pritty good

[Ivan Dan]

DONT YOU FOLKS HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO THAN BITCH ABOUT THE WORTHLESS MARINA AND ITS RULES
Don't you have anything better to do than come on here and bitch about us bitching? You need to find a new hobby!

[Havasu_Dreamin]

ItÂ’s a PUBLIC CONCESSION contract.
Its very definition is a contract with a private business to provide products and services TO PARK VISITORS. Providing enhanced services to the public (that are not otherwise offered by the state or federal government agency) is the SOLE PURPOSE OF THE CONTRACT. Obviously the government gives the private business an opportunity to make money on the contract – and of course the government agency also gets a percentage of the profits. But make no mistake about it; the primary purpose of the contract is to enhance a public park visit - NOT TO RESTRICT IT.
LHM is no different than a hotdog vendor with a concession contract at Yellowstone. The hotdog guy can’t do what he wants just because he is a private business. He can’t refuse service to certain races, or refuse to abide by the terms of the contract. And similarly, he can’t refuse service to any customer who he might think is an illegal alien. Sure, being an illegal alien is a crime – we have laws in place that say so. But it doesn’t give hotdog guy the right to card somebody and based upon his findings - refuse service or kick the person off Yellowstone property.
Another angle is parallel to emission checks in Cali. Sure, every car must meet minimum emission standards – but when we go to a state park or lake - some knucklehead employee doesn’t run up behind the car, throw a smog thingamajiggy into the tailpipe and then tell us we must leave because we don’t meet emission standards. It’s pretty much the same thing at the marina. Fortunately in Cali the state recognizes there must be a set standard and place for testing.
The bottom line is the concession contract was awarded with numerous (and I mean numerous) provisions in it to provide public access to the lake, via the land where LHM sits. Had these provisions not been agreed to by LHM – then the contract would have been awarded to somebody else.
Fast forward 35 years and LHM has obviously lost sight of the fact they are under a strict and very specific contract, with numerous default provisions in it for failing to perform. If the state crawls up the marina’s *ss – they are going to have problems.
Write a letter not only addressing your specific incident and concerns – but also ask the state land department to take action against the marina.
:)
C-2, my friend, you are much more eloquent than I. EXCELLENT POST!
Hopefully now more and more people will have a clearer understanding of the problem and why what the LHM did to us, and everyone else that was tested and turned away, on 9-25-04 was wrong, was an action in direct violation of their lease, and quite possibly illegal!

[boxscore]

I'm in for $200
Some of you have pm'd me and I've read the mail. I've been slammed at my office for the last few days and haven't had much time to respond. Sorry.
When I get a chance to set up a "legal expense fund" account at a bank, I'll let you guys know when to send the money.
The marina may want to silence our boats, but they won't be able to silence our voices.
Thx LakeRacer.... setting up an acct is the most tedious part. The least we can do is to contribute to it. A concerted legal effort will prevail.

[Slib77]

leave to a fockin realtor to make a crappy post REALTORS=PEOPLE THAT MAKE MONEY FOR DOING NOTHING realtors are the bottom feeders of the real estate business your pic Dan you really look like a river rat nothing but a fat dumb realtor
That was pretty F'd up!!!!
What a d*$K!!!!!

[WaterBox]

I'm the one in the hat and the gentlemen in the blue shirt is the one I heard the Ramp Ranger refer to as Tony. He is also the gentleman that I referred in my synopsis of the issue on 9-25-04 as the Manager since he is the one that came over when the Ramp Ranger asked for a Manager.
If that is the guy you referd to as Tony, Then there is two Tony's over there. Tony Meyer is a slender guy, white hair, and a very dark tan. That being the case, I Apologize for my post above. :o

[HAULASSHENRY]

Geez Slib you must really hate realtors to post that saying i posted it why did you do that. Just for the record i like realtors they help make deals in the re industry happen even know he dish me earlier

[Slib77]

Whatever man.
Way to edit your post.
By the way I'm in the real estate biz also. So without people like Dan, I would not make money.

[HAULASSHENRY]

geez slibb i know know one likes me here but you dont have to dig me in the dirt like that let me guess your a mortgage broker and dan makes you kiss his ass for a loan?

[Slib77]

I don't even know Dan.
Nope not broker.

[HAULASSHENRY]

dude slibb what did i do to you for you to post that nasty comment like it was coming from me ok your a title rep or a credit guy if your a title guy dan may give you an order if you buy him a new car

[WaterBox]

What about the right's of the people that like's the loud boat's? Am I the only one? :confused: I would rather listen to the lope of a blown engine idling out of the marina, Or a well tuned Big Block running out at 6000 + rpm. than I would some of that CRAP [so called music] Blasting out of some of them boats... :mad: W.T F.....