Boat Tax???

[goneboatin]

I just recieved a tax notice from the LA county Tax Collector that I owe tax plus pentalties, plus collection fees since I own a boat.
My wife talked to some foreigner (think of Apu on the Simpsons) on the other line who said that we did not pay our tax in June that is why we have a penalty and a collection fee added. But this is the first notice that we have received; do you still live at the address on the envelope? Yes. Then the notice was mailed out in May, and you have not paid that fee. How did you get the information that we own a boat? From the DMV. Only our trailer is registered in California, not the boat. The boat is registered and used in Arizona. Well do you still own the boat? Yes. Then you still owe us the fees.
Has anyone else out there had to deal with this BS before?

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Was your boat ever registered in CA?
BTW, you should be able to fight this. My understanding is that the USCG regs require that the boat be registered in the state of predominant use, grater than 51% Also, the boat must be out of the State of California on Januray 1 of the year to avoid taxes.

[jdogginla]

I think that since you are a resident of CA, and have the trailer registered in CA, unless you can show that you have a residence in AZ, you still owe the taxes. The same thing happened to me.......I own two jet skiis......never new there was a luxury tax on those until I got the 2nd notice one year. Someone on here may now a lil better than I though.
Good luck

[uvindex]

Has anyone else out there had to deal with this BS before?I have. I'll bet you bought the boat in CA, in which case they'll keep billing you for the personal property tax for eternity unless you prove to them that they shouldn't. In my case, I put it in writing, stating how the boat was removed from CA to AZ immediately after I bought it, and was stored, used, and registered in AZ. I included documentation too for slip fees in AZ, proof that I owned a house in AZ, etc. That did the trick. (And it doesn't matter that you're a CA resident, by the way. What matters is that the boat is registered, stored, and used in a state other than CA.)
Good luck! :)

[Havasu Cig]

I know a person that had a Fountain that was documented and therefor not registered with the state. They did not have a trailer for the boat for at least couple of years and when they did buy one and registered it with California, the state started looking for the boat that went with it.
I am going through something similar in Arizona and I plan on getting an attorney before I write a check.

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

After 4 years of registering my boat in CA and paying that BS tax, I filled out the AZ paperwork last month....... :D
Tired of the CA TAX BS........
CJG

[Steamin' Rice]

Good luck fighting this one. You are probably better off just paying the taxes and penalties and dealing with it from there. If you fight them, they can mess up your credit, etc.. I have heard horror stories of people fighting over this with the state/county

[TCHB]

If the boat was registered for one day in California you will be taxed for that year.

[Misogynist]

I went through the same thing... Boat was a documented vessel... Hailing port was Marina del Rey... but they never would have known except the trailer had a California plate.. hit me with the taxes........ :hammer2:

[hava life]

We had this problem with our boat after we reg. in AZ. call the collection # and tell them when you reg. in Az. You should only pay the tax on the boat up to the date it was transfered. I spent alot of time on the phone after our boat was reg. in AZ. We just got or notice today that we owe property tax in Ca. until 2005 and we don't even live there? :2purples: They sent that to our AZ. address. Call them up if the boat is not reg. there, they will put you on hold and transfer you to different people, keep track of who you talk to and when. I got out of the so called luxurey tax but it toook some phone time. Our boat was reg. in Az. and the trailer in ca. but we did have a house in AZ. I don't know if it will matter if you have a house in AZ. or not but you are paying taxes for the boat in AZ. it sounds like. soooo no double taxation right...

[C-2]

The tax is actually a state tax (personal property) collected by each individual county. Counties and the state grab info from DMV, FAA and the Coast Guard. I don't think a trailer has anything to do with it since in some cases - they wouldn't be able to differentiate between a boat and car trailer.
Tax assessor's also walk the docks in marina's at the ocean - which is how they find out of state boat's to tax since the general and accepted rule for taxing authorities is where the vessel "is domiciled." These are the same kinda guys that show up at your office, poke their head in and within 10 seconds, determine you have $10K worth of office equipment.
As others have said, pay the past/delinquent and bombard them with paperwork to prevent further assessments. I've heard some counties in So Cal are hip to this and are net letting go of the tax as easy as they did before.
CG regulations mandate you must register your vessel in the waterway where you use it most - which is the loophole to get around the tax. I'm not sure why AZ and its county assessors don't jump all over this - or do they?
Many things fall under personal property tax. I once got a tax bill for $28 for my purchase of 6 Nextel radios. I still haven't figured out how mr taxman got his hands on that info :eek: :eek:

[Essex502]

Goneboatin'...
The California law allows the local counties to collect property tax on boats and aircraft located in California whether registered in AZ or not. The law states that the boat MUST be outside of California on January 1st, predominantly "moored" outside California and primarily "used" outside of California.
I went through the exact scenario you are now going through...
I bought my boat in California in May of 2000. Not knowing the law I registered in and stored in near my home in Santa Clarita...later that year I received a property statement from the L.A. County Tax Assessor for over $500 and paid it. I then researched the law and found the rules. I moved the boat out of state before the end of 2000 and registered it in Arizona. At the time I stored it in Lake Havasu City and primarily used it on Lake Havasu 50/50 AZ/CA, Lake Mohave and Lake Mead. SO...I met all four tests...outside the state on Jan 1, stored outside the state, registered outside the state and used primarily outside the state. Guess what...because I forgot to notify the County of its removal from the state they sent be a tax bill anyway. I called, wrote letters...all to no avail. I finally through dogged perseverence found the Marine department of the L.A. County Tax Assessor and talked to a very helpful lady that cleared everything up for me. She was the only person who seemed to know what was going on. I did have to provide evidence of the boat being outside CA (storage facility monthly statements) and a copy of the AZ registration paperwork. This issue had gone all the way to the county putting a lien on my personal property. The gal in the Assessor's office got the lien removed and cleared it all up. Since that time no tax bill even though the trailer is registered in CA.
Fight them...call the County Assessor's office and ask for the Marine Department or Division. I'd give you the lady's name but I don't remember it nor do I have it handy. I'll try to look it up tonight but don't hold your breath. This takes time but if you met all of the conditions and can document it you should get everything cleaned-up eventually.
See the following links:
California Board of Equalization (http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/faqs/personal.htm#three)
Orange County Tax Assessor FAQ (http://www.ocgov.com/assessor/faq.asp#BA)

[wedge44]

All of the above...Don't mess with tax assesor...Here's what happened with my old boat...after several years of a shell game between Ventura county and LA county( I lived in Simi but stored at my parents house in LA county) LA county finally found out where boat was at( I still don't know how). Now I thought I got away with it from 92 to 2000...Was I wrong!!! LA county placed lien's on my house...when we went to by new house...escrow found all these lien's I didn't know about :hammer2: SOOOO...during escrow I had too clear up this mess...I checked with Ventura county thier tax was higher than LA county so I settled with LA county....My BAD....When we bought new Ultra last year I never registered in CA...went straight to AZ for reg...permanent trailer ID is in CA....so far No personnal property tax in CA...However when we Bought a new house in 02 all those past lien's still showing on my credit report ...WHAT A MESS...Now I'm Doing A REFI and those F*cking things are still coming up, What a Nightmare :hammerhea when will it end. Good thing I have lot's of copies of letters I sent to LA county tax people.

[H20 Toie]

Be very careful I sunk my boat at pyramid (it's still there) so the next year i didn't pay the tax and they put a lien on my house and it took years to fix my credit after that. The time it takes to fight them may cost more than just paying the tax.

[MRS FLYIN VEE]

they are still trying to charge us for the 28 that we sold last January.. they suck :notam:

[BarryMac]

What dictates who pays and why? Is it the price, length, year, maker??? I bought my boat in April and haven't seen anything about a Luxury Tax...
gjb

[waterslinger]

Well what I do is never put a tag on the trailer that way the DMV or county
never know that I have it. So no tax bill. All my boats have been registered
with the DNR. That keeps the water cops off my back. We take our boats all over from SC to south Fl and I have never
got a ticket for no tag.
It has worked so far. GA is sort of slack if a car is over 15 years
old you do not need a title and do not need one at all for a boat.

[jas0502]

We have had the same problem. If your boat is registered in california for 1 minute starting jan 1st...you pay for the whole year!! If you register it in Az or NV it must be located there. All we had to provide is the name and address of storage facility.
Pay the tax, write it off. Register your boat in anouther state before december 31 st, and move it to storage. If you can. It seemed to us like it may be too expensive or inconvinient, but it has worked well, with savings on gas and wear and tear on truck and trialer...................my .02
oh, trailer is registered in cali

[C-2]

What dictates who pays and why? Is it the price, length, year, maker??? I bought my boat in April and haven't seen anything about a Luxury Tax...
gjb
It's not a luxury tax at all. It's personal property tax and has been around since well...taxes have. It's nothing new, was not recently enacted or repealed. Straight personal property tax.
After the first of the year you should receive a tax bill if your boat is registered in Cali. If you want to evade the tax you can excercise your right in So Cali to register your boat in AZ cause that's where you use it. Keep in mind though, you are supposed to pay tax wherever the boat is domiciled (housed/moored on a regular basis). Read this entire thread, everything you need is in here. There are no residency requirements in AZ to register your boat there. Contact AZ Game & Fish.
When a county files a lien - it is lien against real property (real estate) and personal property. It attaches to anything, including your house. But it should not be confused with say, a mortgage lien - meaning they will not foreclose on the lien. As with any derogatory item of credit, the lien will remain on your credit report (if a CRA picks it up) for seven years FROM THE DATE THE LIEN WAS PAID.
Even jet ski's get the liens.
Good luck :)

[copperrat20]

Wait a minute. I have a question. Do all of your guy's trailer pink slips say "boat trailer"? Because mine says tandem axle trailer and that's it! :messedup:

[BarryMac]

It's not a luxury tax at all. It's personal property tax and has been around since well...taxes have. It's nothing new, was not recently enacted or repealed. Straight personal property tax.
After the first of the year you should receive a tax bill if your boat is registered in Cali. If you want to evade the tax you can excercise your right in So Cali to register your boat in AZ cause that's where you use it. Keep in mind though, you are supposed to pay tax wherever the boat is domiciled (housed/moored on a regular basis). Read this entire thread, everything you need is in here. There are no residency requirements in AZ to register your boat there. Contact AZ Game & Fish.
When a county files a lien - it is lien against real property (real estate) and personal property. It attaches to anything, including your house. But it should not be confused with say, a mortgage lien - meaning they will not foreclose on the lien. As with any derogatory item of credit, the lien will remain on your credit report (if a CRA picks it up) for seven years FROM THE DATE THE LIEN WAS PAID.
Even jet ski's get the liens.
Good luck :)
Thanks C-2
Ok, so how does the state of California decide how much tax you owe, is there some sort of formula, say a percentage of the value? Does this come every year or is it like registering your boat, every other year?
gjb

[TrojanDan]

Good luck fighting this one. You are probably better off just paying the taxes and penalties and dealing with it from there. If you fight them, they can mess up your credit, etc.. I have heard horror stories of people fighting over this with the state/county
I actually fought CA about 6 months ago and won! Took me about 6 months of going back and forth but we finally received a letter from CA stating "Not purchased for use in CA." Which basically meant I didn't have to pay taxes on the boat.
Our boat is CG registered (B of A made us do this, but glad I did) and the trailer is CA registered even though the boat stays in my garage in LHC. Some of the items I had to submit to show proof that the boat stayed in AZ were:
1. Gas receipts from Terrible's
2. Maintenance receipts from ALCO Marine (in LHC) one year apart.
3. A copy of my mortgage statement showing I had a house in AZ
4. A copy of my CG application showing my winter and summer mooring as LHC,AZ (this really saved my ass!)
5. A copy of my boat loan showing my AZ address
6. A copy of the purchase agreement with the previous owner showing his address (Illinois) and my delivery address (AZ).
7. And a strongly worded letter!
Don't give up fighting these guys if you know you are in the right and keep all your receipts. CA tax collectors suck donkey balls! :yuk:

[C-2]

Thanks C-2
Ok, so how does the state of California decide how much tax you owe, is there some sort of formula, say a percentage of the value? Does this come every year or is it like registering your boat, every other year?
gjb
I believe the amount varies (as do real property tax assessments) from county to county, year to year, but roughly 1.1% of the purchase price and the amount depreciates from there. I don't know what formula they use for depreciation. Your accountant/tax advisor should know.
The tax is an annual amount due every year, the same as your house taxes.
I thought trailers were every two years, boat every year? AZ is every year.
AZ used to be cheap, like 20 something for a 21' boat. But theygot wise and now charge out-of-state owners by the foot. The registration itself is about the same as Cali - you're not saving any coin there. But the diference is escaping the $400-$500 personal property tax, every year.

[BarryMac]

Thanks C-2, I appreciate your response...
gjb

[Ultra5150]

I also fought it and won. I had to pay the tax during the appeal process so they wouldnt lien me. I just got my check from them in the mail about a week ago. I had to show them storage receipts from Havasu, it is an extremely long process but you can win if you can prove that you should not have been taxed in the first place.
I believe that the tax is 1% of the value of your boat.

[Brewzed]

Good luck fighting this one. You are probably better off just paying the taxes and penalties and dealing with it from there. If you fight them, they can mess up your credit, etc.. I have heard horror stories of people fighting over this with the state/county
This happened to me. I sold my old boat in 11/99, the guy that bought me boat didn't register it until 6/00. I had no idea until I received my tax bill from the County of Riverside. I showed them the paperwork I had from the sale (bill of sale, etc.). Since the bozo didn't register it for 7 months I owned it in 1/00 which is how the base there tax for the year. I didn't pay, tried to fight it. They filed a lien on my house, which then went on my credit report. It goes under the public records part of your file so you like sh*t. I ended up paying it and now I have 2 listings under my credit report on the public records, 1 for the lien and 1 for the release of lien. It's stays on there for 7 years. Everytime I buy something it comes up.
My advice is - pay it and fight it later. You don't want that lien on your credit. It doesn't come off when you pay it. It just states released. I have tried with all 3 credit companies, and they wont remove it.

[goneboatin]

I guess I'm kinda SOL since I do keep my boat at Affordable Boat Storage at Big River - it's on the California side. This sucks, that's why I registered my boat in Arizona, to not have to pay the stupid California Tax. Jeez, if they didn't let so many illeagals over the boarder they wouldn't need my money. Just hope Kerry doesn't get elected, he's already to give them benefits.

[Boatcop]

CG regulations mandate you must register your vessel in the waterway where you use it most - which is the loophole to get around the tax. I'm not sure why AZ and its county assessors don't jump all over this - or do they?
As been said, where the boat is registered has no bearing on California's Personal Property Tax for boats. It's where the boat is stored/domiciled/moored etc.
Arizona doesn't include boats as personal property. The only taxes on boats (other than initial sales tax) is the vessel license tax which is paid via your registration fees. It's based on boat length, with out of state owners paying slightly higher than resident owners.

[Essex502]

The person to talk to - if she is still there - is "Rene" - in the Marine division of the Los Angeles County Assessor's Office. I don't have her telephone number but her FAX # is (213) 617-7460 (at least it was back in 2002. Good luck.

[Parker Dreamin2]

Ok so right now we are having a 26 foot Cobra built. We have a condo in Parker AZ. Hernando is going to help us register the boat and trailer in AZ. Is there anything I need to worry about as far as this tax crap we have been talking about in the thread? :argue:

[Boatcop]

Ok so right now we are having a 26 foot Cobra built. We have a condo in Parker AZ. Hernando is going to help us register the boat and trailer in AZ. Is there anything I need to worry about as far as this tax crap we have been talking about in the thread? :argue:
Number 1.
Is the boat and trailer going to stay in Arizona and NEVER be brought into California? By never, I mean, not ever, never, not for repairs, for service, just passing through, going down to Big River, nothing.
If the answer is YES, then by all means get the boat and trailer registered in Arizona.
If the answer is NO, in that it will occasionally be taken into California, then you must register the trailer in California. California Vehicle code says that any vehicle owned by a resident of the state, must register all of their vehicles in the state, unless that vehicle does not enter the state.
The offense for a resident with an out of state registered vehicle is a Misdemeanor Criminal Offense, and carries fines upwards of $1,000 dollars. And believe you me, CHP is constantly on the lookout for California registered vehicles pulling Arizona registered trailers.
Owning property in Arizona doesn't make you a "resident" here. If you live, work, enroll kids in school, vote, have a driver's license, have other vehicles registered, etc... in California, you are a resident of California.
Boats are a different matter. You can register the boat in the "state of principle use", meaning where you boat most often. If that is on the Colorado River, you have your choice of which state you register it in. Heck, if you boat on Mohave or Mead most of the time, you could register it in Nevada if you wanted to.
But just because it's registered in another state, or is Federally Documented, doesn't make you exempt from California County Personal Property Tax. If you own the boat and keep it in California, (even for 1 day) you owe the tax. Period! They don't care if it's registered on Mars. They're going to get their money, one way or another. As some have said, you may be able to fend them off for a time, but when they catch up with you, you're screwed.
I know people who have had to sell their boats to pay back property taxes on them, after "getting away with" not paying that tax for several years. Remember, besides the back taxes, there can be interest and penalties, too.
So, to wrap it up. If you want to register the boat and trailer in Arizona to avoid the property taxes, plan on never bringing it home.

[Scream]

Ok so right now we are having a 26 foot Cobra built. We have a condo in Parker AZ. Hernando is going to help us register the boat and trailer in AZ. Is there anything I need to worry about as far as this tax crap we have been talking about in the thread? :argue:
If you tow the AZ boat on an AZ trailer with a CA vehicle, you'll get hastled a lot if you bring it into CA.
goneboatin, you probably owe the tax and cannot get out of that, but you should fight the penalties and any filing they make against your credit score, which they will. They should be able to prove that they provided you with initial notice of your tax liability ontime. If not they should wave the fees and penalties, but you still owe the tax unfortunately.
Scream

[Parker Dreamin2]

Thanks for all the great info. BoatCop you live in the parker area? I have a condo in Parker. We plan on taking the boat from the factory floor right to Parker to run it wide open then right to storage. So yes the boat will be staying up there 100% of the time.

[Essex502]

Your trouble will be if you have to bring the boat back to Calif. for service at Cobra....Do yourself the favor and register the trailer in CA and the boat in AZ. You'll be fine. It also protects you should you desire to ever visit Lauglin and have to drive through CA for any reason.