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SVO 540
12-06-2001, 06:16 PM
Riverliver,
I thought I would start a new string. I didn't want to go on and on with the mr havasu cat string.
I am hopeful that this post will generate alot of suggestions for riverliver. Also, riverliver is a very good friend of mine and we could do this over the phone by why not make it a group thing.
Here are the facts:
1. Riverliver has a 25 Daytona, closed deck with a non-EFI HP500 motor.
2. Riverliver is very hard on parts, he has blown up a HP500 motor and a stock Bravo I outdrive.
3. His first Bravo had 1.50 gears and a 28 pitch prop. This combo ran 82 at 5200 rpm until he blew it up. This nets a slip of 10%.
4. His second Bravo had 1.36 gears (so he could soup up his motor later and have the right gear). This uses a 24 pitch prop and runs 75 mph at 5000 rpm. This is also a slip of 10%.
Now we all know riverliver's slip calcs. What does this tell us. It tells us that it takes more power to spin a small prop faster than a big prop slower. It takes more power (torque) to spin a 1.36 gear and 24 prop than a 1.50 gear and 28 prop.
OK, so now what? How do we get riverliver to 100 mph? Let's assume riverliver slaps his 28 pitch prop back on with his 1.36 gear. Using his slip number of 10%, he would need to spin his motor exactly 5700 rpm.
This is the question I was hoping the readers of this could answer. How to we get that HP500 to turn 5700 rpm? Remember, riverliver is hard on parts. I personally think an 8:71 sitting on top of a superchiller is the way to go. Add 2 big carbs, lock out the distributor, back of the timing and your there. There are other options like procharger, vortech, wipple, turbos, etc.
For sure riverliver must either beef up that outdrive or change his driving style. Speaking of driving style, he almost pitched me and all of our buddies out of his boat rounding the corner to the sandbar. That Daytona sure can hook a sponson when it hits a wave just right and riverliver is driving.
Tell riverliver what you think.
Mr. Slip, aka SVO 540 - OUT

rivercrazy
12-06-2001, 06:24 PM
Break out the wallet!!! All it takes is large recurring flows of cash

Havasu Hangin'
12-06-2001, 06:31 PM
"blow-er...blow-er"...the chant starts out of the crowd..."blow-er...blow-er...blow-er..."
http://www.goldenplasma.f2s.com/forum/smilies/happy25.gif

RiverToysJas
12-06-2001, 06:39 PM
Speed costs money, how fast does he want to go?
RTJas

racingrascal
12-06-2001, 11:17 PM
Is the 500 stock? He can do some changes to that motor to pick up power. The new 500 efi with all of the bolt on's is a 850 hp motor. (Just read it in one of the Offshore mags.) Do some roller rockers, cam, blower, carbs. That should give hime another 100-150 hp. If I am not mistakings it take's 750hp in a Daytona to do 104? Maybe I am all confused but that's my .02
Andy

Craig
12-07-2001, 03:51 AM
The blower route is the way to go! Add a couple of Holleys, a good cam, beef up the support systems, ignition, fuel delivery. Is it a single or dual step Daytona? The dual step doesn't porpoise as bad at mid range, but takes more power to get to 100.
Craig

riverliver
12-07-2001, 07:07 AM
Thanks for the topic Mr. Slip (svo540)
it looks as if the blower is the way to go.
It apears that 250 to 300 extra ponies will be needed to get there.
The hull is a 2 step with the motor a hp500 stock and a hp bravo one drive.
Yes this will cost MONEY$$$$$$$
Maybe 7 to 10K
Yes your right Mr. Slip I do drive it hard.
(Go hard or go home)
As for the corner at the sandbar, you forgot to mention the assh**** that cut us off, it was either hit him or hook that sponson.

SVO 540
12-07-2001, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by DEL51:
If you want to increase the power of the hp 500,depending on static compression ratio,I would recommend a high quality 871-1071 blower.I like littlefield or Kuhl.If you can get an intercooler from PFM,it would add at least 75 hp.2(800-850-cfm) holley carbs and an msd Ignition.Blower cam would aid Idling.Quality exhaust system is a must to achieve maximum torque.I have heard alot about lightning headers.How old is the engine?If you go with a larger blower you can use it for a future upgrade to a larger cubic inch engine.Can this drive handle the power? Maybe this should be addressed before you upgrade the power.Read the previous posts about carbs and boost.I am assuming the compression ratio is not more than 9:1 on the hp 500.Is this motor going to be rebuilt?You will receive more suggestions,so a little more info on whether you intend to just bolt this stuff on and go or rebuild the engine.If the latter,I can give you some good tips on parts choice.For example,If you do rebuild the engine,installation of low compression blower pistons would help you run more boost than stock pistons.More boost = more torque,to a point, then other factors come into play.There are some people on this forum with more expertise than I, but I have 2 supercharged engines that I have learned much from.Good Luck! DEL51
This was posted by DEL51 in the Blower Motor section. I had asked the guys over there to lend a hand with this string.
Del51, Let riverliver answer your questions, they are good questions.
I got a few more facts on the HP500 motor. You can spin the motor to 5700 or 5800 rpm. This is because it is the non-efi version and doesn't have the efi rev limiter in it. The compression ratio is 8.8:1.
Here is a 25 Daytona stat I learned. It takes approx 700 hp to hit 100mph, but I think this is the single step hull.
racingrascal, I agree with your stat. I heard with 750hp the boat should go 105mph. However, a good friend of mine has a single step 25 Daytona with about 850hp and he has a top speed best of 107mph.

SVO 540
12-07-2001, 09:55 AM
I forgot to add that the HP500 comes with a single 800 cfm carb. If riverliver went with 2 800 cfm carbs, could he use the one that is currently on the motor and only need to buy one new carb?
Sorry about the sad face in the last post. Let's get hot boat to change the default to a happy face.

rivercrazy
12-07-2001, 10:02 AM
I think the carb used on the hp500 is a Holley 9022 duel feed double pumper with mechanical secondaries. I bought this carb for my 454 a while back. Its a good one.

JSP
12-07-2001, 11:41 AM
Call Dustin at Whipple super chargers.They have kit just for the carbed Hp500.Great product we have one on our cat with the Hp500efi.Also the drive will need to be replaced with the xr drive. WWW.Whipplesuperchargers.com (http://WWW.Whipplesuperchargers.com)

kmahtm
12-07-2001, 10:38 PM
Originally posted by racingrascal:
Is the 500 stock? He can do some changes to that motor to pick up power. The new 500 efi with all of the bolt on's is a 850 hp motor. (Just read it in one of the Offshore mags.) Do some roller rockers, cam, blower, carbs. That should give hime another 100-150 hp. If I am not mistakings it take's 750hp in a Daytona to do 104? Maybe I am all confused but that's my .02
Andy
WHERE DO YOU GUY'S GET THESE NUMBER'S 104 WITH 750 HP YOU NEED BRING THIS TO LAKE WITH GPS!!! HOW DID YOU GET THESE HP NUBERS A GOOD IMAGINATION IS NOT A BAD THING HELL I HAVE A 12" INCH WELL YOU KNOW WHERE THIS IS GOING! HOW COME ALL THE ELIMINATORS WILL DO SPEEDS OVER 100 MPH REGARDLESS OF HP IF THERE BOAT'S PERFORMANCE IS SO GREAT HOW COME WE DON'T SEE THEM AT THE DRAG'S? AND WHY DOESN'T ELIMINATOR HOLD ANY SPEED RECORDS UNLESS THEY PUT 3 OR 4 ENGINES IN THEM? AND ONE MORE THING BRING YOUR ELIMINATOR TO DRAG'S AND RUN REAL RACING BOAT LIKE 24 SS HTM! AND NO I DON'T OWN ANY HTM'S!!!!!

Charley
12-08-2001, 08:58 PM
"KMAHTM" LIGHTEN UP BRO, guess what there are plenty of Fast eliminators out there.... 25' daytona IS a Fast hull... call Dustin @whipple he powered one that ran upper 130's....as far as HTM goes with all due respect if you put Steves "Non rev limited" 15 lbs of boost 565 cid motor in other Cats 22'-26' yer gonna see big MPH numbers in almost all of them...maybe even go faster than Steve's 143, who knows?. Don't get me wrong , Steve makes a real nice boat, I almost bought one myself but isn't it time to ask the manufacturers to put crate Hp500's in their boats and let Hot Boat see the fastest "Hull" on the market...... say
22' Daytona
22' DCB
24' HTM
22' Advantage
24' Skater "out of production"
22' Cougar
23' Stoker
that hp500 test might change a few peoples opinions...
and by the way kmahtm, people buy the boats that make the most sense to them and their needs, not everyone wants what you want ... and I find it ironic that the guy ragging on a 25' daytona and hyping htm doesn't even own one!
don't hesitate to reply

25 Eagle
12-08-2001, 09:02 PM
kmahtm...what do you run?

DBM
12-09-2001, 11:07 AM
First,750HP is a substantual amount of power,second 104 mph is not that fast by todays standards,running this combo it does not sound unresonable,as you obviously think it is,the drag race that your mentioning was created largly by HTM,and is only about a year old and so far only HTMs have raced each other that i know of, eccept one at castaic where i believe it was roys boat witch is at least a 540 with a 1471/roots blower and injected with a buzzard catcher, ran a single outboard in the 1/4 and lost. hopefully next year it will be a broader spectrum of participants,my point is if you put enough horse power in it play with the prop,gear ratio,you going to get some big #s in anything,some are faster,some are more aestheticlly desirable,and further i do not see people with Eliminators boasting about how fast there going all the time, where do you get this from,like charley said, lets get em weighed, put the same gear ratio,same prop and same horse power and see what happens, until than its all just a bunch of crap talk fueled by biased opinionated testostarone,all these guys were trying to do is help a fellow boater,and you jumped in and started bashing the guys boat,by the way its kinda funny that the last three letters in your user name are htm,? even though you dont,own one.

SVO 540
12-09-2001, 03:15 PM
kmahtm,
Hey dude what kind of boat do you have? Do you have any data on your boat that could be helpful to our topic here?
Are all eliminator owners fricken pussies? kmahtm is talkin some major shit about eliminators and as far as I know, not one owner has stood up to kmahtm's remarks. A few guys have posted replys but I don't think these guys own eliminators.
I personally like the 25 Daytona and if not for the DCB Mach 26, I would own one. The 25 Daytona hull is one of the fastest and best looking single engine cat hulls out there.
The layup of a boat is very important, this is why the last two boats I put together I was very specific in my order regarding, epoxy, glass, stringers, time in mold, etc. In fact, Jim Wilkes of Hot Boat fame will be a consultant during the building process to make sure that the mfg is doing and using all the right stuff. He will do this for a fee. There are some mfgs where this is not necessary, like DCB and a few others, but it is an option. I'm not sure what my point is, just rambling on.
Let's hear from kmahtm to find out what his ride is and let's hear from you eliminator owners.
Also, let's not loose sight of the purpose of this string. How do we get that HP500 to 750 hp or so. Riverliver, answer DEL 51 so we can get some more of his advise.
Fastcats, where did you go? I am sure you can help us with our mission. I know you have lots of information on slip, hp, props, gears, etc. What would be your advise to Riverliver? Fastcats, I would also like to know about your boat.
See Ya.

riverliver
12-09-2001, 05:37 PM
What no reply back KMAHTM ?
Do you even have a boat or are you just full bullshit!!
Fact: 25 Daytona 800 HP @5500 rpm 110 mph (radar gun)
you know there are a lot of great boats out there and HTM is one of them.
what was the point of your post, to show that you are a assh**** or to bash Eliminator
I would guess by your post that you have a small boat and **** well you know where this is going !!
Thanks to all the other guy's for your post your info is most helpful.

Charley
12-09-2001, 06:39 PM
Actually SVO I own both a DCB mach 26 and a 21' eliminator Daytona with a 300 horsepower V8 johnson out board, so I'll stick up for eliminator! I had MANY MANY Great trips on Parker from 89-95 in that boat and if a 300 hp OB ona 21' boat isn't testing eliminators tramsoms and glass work then I don't know what is..oh and by the way KMAHTM....not a stress crack anywhere to be found on it..and I drive like a nascar driver..... so basically kmahtm is obviously eating a little too much "hype" pie after his TV dinner..... once again KMAHTM any reply? care to put yer money where yyour mouth is or you just busy removing the nike from it?

Havasu Hangin'
12-09-2001, 06:48 PM
Originally posted by riverliver:
Thanks to all the other guy's for your post your info is most helpful.
I hope my post wasn't too techincal for you.. http://www.goldenplasma.f2s.com/forum/smilies/happy06.gif
Always willing to help spend someone else's money for a change...
http://www.goldenplasma.f2s.com/forum/smilies/happy25.gif

mrpumps HTM
12-09-2001, 09:12 PM
Originally posted by SVO 540:
kmahtm,
Hey dude what kind of boat do you have? Do you have any data on your boat that could be helpful to our topic here?
Are all eliminator owners fricken pussies? kmahtm is talkin some major shit about eliminators and as far as I know, not one owner has stood up to kmahtm's remarks. A few guys have posted replys but I don't think these guys own eliminators.
I personally like the 25 Daytona and if not for the DCB Mach 26, I would own one. The 25 Daytona hull is one of the fastest and best looking single engine cat hulls out there.
The layup of a boat is very important, this is why the last two boats I put together I was very specific in my order regarding, epoxy, glass, stringers, time in mold, etc. In fact, Jim Wilkes of Hot Boat fame will be a consultant during the building process to make sure that the mfg is doing and using all the right stuff. He will do this for a fee. There are some mfgs where this is not necessary, like DCB and a few others, but it is an option. I'm not sure what my point is, just rambling on.
Let's hear from kmahtm to find out what his ride is and let's hear from you eliminator owners.
Also, let's not loose sight of the purpose of this string. How do we get that HP500 to 750 hp or so. Riverliver, answer DEL 51 so we can get some more of his advise.
Fastcats, where did you go? I am sure you can help us with our mission. I know you have lots of information on slip, hp, props, gears, etc. What would be your advise to Riverliver? Fastcats, I would also like to know about your boat.
See Ya.
DAMMM I JUST FOUND OUT WHAT K M A STANDS FOR KISS MY ASS H T M thats not vary nice, I COULD VARY WELL TAKE THAT AS ??????????? WHATEVER DAMM GO GITEM DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kmahtm
12-10-2001, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by riverliver:
What no reply back KMAHTM ?
Do you even have a boat or are you just full bullshit!!
Fact: 25 Daytona 800 HP @5500 rpm 110 mph (radar gun)
you know there are a lot of great boats out there and HTM is one of them.
what was the point of your post, to show that you are a assh**** or to bash Eliminator
I would guess by your post that you have a small boat and **** well you know where this is going !!
Thanks to all the other guy's for your post your info is most helpful.
DON'T MEAN TO HURT YOUR FEELINGS BUT I ALWAYS SEE LOT'S OF HTM BASHING? AND I'V BEEN IN MANY 25' ELIMINATOR'S WITH BLOWN 540'S-565'S MOST SPEEDS ARE BETWEEN 95-105 SO HOW DOES 750 GO 105-107 ? TALK IS CHEAP AND GPS DOESN'T LIE. ALSO THESE ENGINES ARE PUTTING OUT BETWEEN 850-1000 HP. ALTHOUGH 95 MPH IS QUITE FAST AND TAKES LOTS OF HP!ALSO LOTS OF BIG BOAT'S WILL GO TO THE 100 MPH MARK OVER LONG DISTANCES THE KEY IS ACCELERATION!HTM HAS THIS QUALITY EVEN WITH 750 HP.ANOTHER THING I SEE IS HOT BOAT SPEED TEST?HOW ABOUT HOWARD 26 CAT WITH 750 HP DOES OVER 100 MPH I REALLY DOUBT IT.AT LEAST NOT IN A SHORT DISTANCE MAYBE 5 MILES? NO HARD FEELING'S O.K I JUST DON'T SEE EVERBODY JUMPING UP TO DEFEND HTM WHEN BASHING GOES ON ? I SUPECT THAT JEALOUSY HAS A LOT TO DO WITH ALL THE HTM BASHING!?

kmahtm
12-10-2001, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by Charley:
"KMAHTM" LIGHTEN UP BRO, guess what there are plenty of Fast eliminators out there.... 25' daytona IS a Fast hull... call Dustin @whipple he powered one that ran upper 130's....as far as HTM goes with all due respect if you put Steves "Non rev limited" 15 lbs of boost 565 cid motor in other Cats 22'-26' yer gonna see big MPH numbers in almost all of them...maybe even go faster than Steve's 143, who knows?. Don't get me wrong , Steve makes a real nice boat, I almost bought one myself but isn't it time to ask the manufacturers to put crate Hp500's in their boats and let Hot Boat see the fastest "Hull" on the market...... say
22' Daytona
22' DCB
24' HTM
22' Advantage
24' Skater "out of production"
22' Cougar
23' Stoker
that hp500 test might change a few peoples opinions...
and by the way kmahtm, people buy the boats that make the most sense to them and their needs, not everyone wants what you want ... and I find it ironic that the guy ragging on a 25' daytona and hyping htm doesn't even own one!
don't hesitate to reply
YOU HAVE SOME GOOD POINT'S AND JUST FOR THE RECORD I A'M NOT TRYING TO HAMMER ON RIVERLIVER'S BOAT JUST TRIED SEEING ALL THESE BIG AND UNREAL NUMBERS FROM ELIMINATORS. I ALSO COST IS A FACTOR IN GOING FAST. FIND ME ANY FACT'S THAT SHOW A 25' BOAT THAT WILL DO 140+ WITH THE SAME HP AS HTM IS RUNNING. AS FOR POINT OF THIS STRING THE 1.50 GEAR WILL TAKE MORE ABUSE THAN 1.36 GEAR DO TO THE FLOOR OF THE GEAR HAS MORE MEAT. AND AS FOR GOING 100MPH WITH DEPENDABILITY A LITTLE MORE POWER THAN NEEDED IS A GOOD THING. AND IN THAT BOAT 850 HP IS A GOOD NUMBER ALSO CI IS O SO IMPORTANT EVEN WITHOUT A SUPERCHARGER. SO BUY A CRANKSHAFT WITH AS MUCH STROKE AS YOUR BLOCK CAN HANDLE WITH HAVING TO GRIND TO MUCH OUT OF PAN RAILS ON GM BLOCK MAIN OIL IN PAN RAIL ALSO MAX BORE SO YOU CAN GET AS MANY CI AS POSSIBLE WITHOUT BUYING NEW AFTER MARKET BLOCK. FORGET GEAR RATIO UNTIL YOU HAVE SOME SUBSTANCIAL TORQUE=CI CALLIES HAS NEW CRANK FOR BBC ONLY 795.00 4.250 STROKE NOT MADE IN CHINA MADE IN USA.

kmahtm
12-10-2001, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by DBM:
First,750HP is a substantual amount of power,second 104 mph is not that fast by todays standards,running this combo it does not sound unresonable,as you obviously think it is,the drag race that your mentioning was created largly by HTM,and is only about a year old and so far only HTMs have raced each other that i know of, eccept one at castaic where i believe it was roys boat witch is at least a 540 with a 1471/roots blower and injected with a buzzard catcher, ran a single outboard in the 1/4 and lost. hopefully next year it will be a broader spectrum of participants,my point is if you put enough horse power in it play with the prop,gear ratio,you going to get some big #s in anything,some are faster,some are more aestheticlly desirable,and further i do not see people with Eliminators boasting about how fast there going all the time, where do you get this from,like charley said, lets get em weighed, put the same gear ratio,same prop and same horse power and see what happens, until than its all just a bunch of crap talk fueled by biased opinionated testostarone,all these guys were trying to do is help a fellow boater,and you jumped in and started bashing the guys boat,by the way its kinda funny that the last three letters in your user name are htm,? even though you dont,own one.
I GUESS YOU HAVE BEEN AROUND 125 MPH BOATS MORE THAN I HAVE BUT UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN IN THESE BOATS WITH GPS IN HAND I'M PRETTY SURE THAT ANYTHING OVER 100 MPH IS NOT AVERAGE! PLEASE CHECK YOUR NUMBERS NOT HOT BOATS NUMBERS AND AS FAR AS FOR ROY'S BOAT 1471/INJECTED DOESN'T =HP ALL THE TIME! BUT I'M PRETTY SURE THAT ROY'S BOAT RUN'S HARD IT'S JUST NOT AS EASY TO TURN BIG NUMBERS AS SOME PEOPLE THINK AND DON'T REALLY KNOW! I HAVE HEARD ALL THE STORIES IN THE BOOK AND I KNOW THAT EVERBODY'S BOAT DOES 100 MPH OR MORE EASLY!

DBM
12-10-2001, 11:27 AM
kmahtm or whom ever you realy are I think your a couple of different people on this site or good buddies with them judging by your coraspondance and tone, I think your sole purpose was to bash eliminator and nothing else. Further I think you are an htm owner.
Whose feelings are realy hurt here,I also noticed you were so kind as to bash eliminator on another thread,and it had nothing to do with mph,you came right out and said it in your last post, what is realy the purpose and point of your posts.
It looks and sounds that you were lurking about waiting for the right opportunity to start your crap,get back to the subject at hand and sell crazy some where else were all full up here, it sounds like you just might posses some usefull knowlege try sticking to it.

MrHavasuCat
12-10-2001, 11:35 AM
kmahtm,
I just ran 104 on gps (handheld garmin mariner) in my Mach 26 a couple of weeks ago with about 750 hp in less than ideal conditions (no wind and flat water). This is with a blown 510 running 9# of boost, and an xr drive. The motor is good for about 15#. I am still playing with props and the boat is good for more with the right one.
So I guess my point is two fold. first you don't need huge cubic inch motors to produce decent hp (Charley is running a blown 509 that has pulled more than 1000 hp on the dyno), and second the 25 Daytona should be capable of about the same speed with similar hp as my Mach from what I have heard about this hull. I have been told that it is a fast hull from people that have owned them.
[This message has been edited by MrHavasuCat (edited December 10, 2001).]

Charley
12-10-2001, 07:25 PM
YO KMAHTM!......these are all numbers pulled from hot boat test reports, I wanted to pull boats in the class we have been talking about with 600-650hp...
1.High Torque Marine 24' SS 24 600hp 101 mph
2.Firehawk 26' 2600 Firehawk Cat 600 hp 98 mph
3. American Offshore 26' 2600 NSX 650 650 hp 101 mph
4.Eliminator 25’ 2500 Daytona Blown 468 Chevy/Blackhawk 607hp 104.3 mph
Please note the eliminator with 7 more horsepower went 3mph faster than the Htm...although it did have a blackhawk drive which you will probably say changes EVERYTHING, So.....the American Offshore a 2'...some might say 3' longer and certainly gerthier boat went the same speed with a measley 50 more HP! and the Firehawk ...a 26' boat was within 3 mph of the 24' htm with the same horsepower!!!.....hmmmmmm interesting and most people would agree all 3 of those "OTHER" boats will probably handle a little bigger water than the HTM...damn dude help me understand whats happening to your arguement ?

MACH26
12-10-2001, 08:00 PM
Hey Riverliver,
I've got an idea, plug the hole, ditch off the tired 500hp, and clamp on a set of 300x's. You'll be good for 105-109. You may not be as fast as SVO, but we all know he can't run those speeds all the way to Havasu Springs and back! You could with the clamp ons. If you can't afford the total rerig, my Mach 26 is for sale, ready to go.
As for you KMAHTM, yes the HTM's are fast, but I haven't seen one with a pretty enough motor or a crazy enough gelcoat to not make it look like a big awkward bathtub on water. If anyone on this forum tells you style dosen't play into their decision to buy a boat, they must be a Campbell owner.
Mach26

FastCats
12-10-2001, 08:18 PM
Hi Charley,
When looking at the AO test, please make note of the rpm as we blew a drive at 5200. we have tested the boat in the test prior and after the blown drive at 108mph, in the rough stuff. Not trying to stir anything up, it had just been a long day that day and we did not have a spare drive with us. Just an FYI.
Scott

DBM
12-10-2001, 08:52 PM
By the way, I also own a 25 single step daytona,my first set up was a 540 with perfomer rpm aluminum heads,a set of 950s on top of a B&M 420 with 9:1 static 7 PDS boost solid roller,1.50 gear ratio, 30 pitch prop witch ran like a raped ape to 110 MPH on GPS consitantly,at about 6500 RPM this is about 800 HP,second set up same 540 with victor cnc heads ,blower shop 14/71 at 12 PDS boost about 1000 HP, Bmax with 1.30 ratio, 30 pitch prop, my best was 124.7 on GPS although it is not as quick as my first set up,
I also drive my 25 like i stole the ****er, I cant count how many times I had the thing completly out of the water, and nailed on rentry and no stress cracks ECT to date.
I also have a few friends with HTMs they all seem to be pretty happy with their boats.
Ive, also raced quite a few and made them look stupid,and also been beat by a few with ample HP
I plan to R&R the motor with a few changes and would love to give you a test ride,to back up my story,

Charley
12-11-2001, 06:41 AM
damn mach 26, that sorta defeats the purpose when you resort to his tactics...actually you're worse you ragged on campbels too! Can't we all just get along and enjoy the river together?

Charley
12-11-2001, 06:56 AM
DBM,Scott.... thank you for proving my point 124 mph w/1000 hp is very impressive and realistic with a 25 Daytona. Scott I appreciate the info......108 huh? nice... a 2' bigger boat with 50 more Hp ran 7mph faster? get that KMAHTM?So .... you had Hype for dinner and reality for dessert no biggie..
.by the way KMAHTM its worth noting everyone who can afford an Eliminator, DCB, American Offshore could have an HTM if they wanted one....Steve makes a nice boat with some unique features and has done a nice job marketing it....I just liked what the DCB had to offer ... and to date I'm completely satisfied with the performance,service and styling. Some day I might even owna big V................................................. ...YA RIGHT!

mrpumps HTM
12-11-2001, 07:50 AM
DAMM im gone for a day and look and what i missssssed we all cant wait for summer (cabinfever)
[This message has been edited by mrpumps HTM (edited December 11, 2001).]

SVO 540
12-11-2001, 12:17 PM
Hey guys, I was talkin with Riverliver last night and told him I was wishing we got more advise from this string. Just looked at it and was glad to see that the facts and suggestions have picked up.
I have a few comments.
Charley, DBM and MrHavasuCat, good work guys. You all posted with either actual facts about your boats or information from Hot Boat Magazine. This is helpful information.
KMAHTM, you still have not told us about your boat...maybe you have some performance info from your boat that will help Riverliver. As for your comments about all the 100mph boats out there, I too must admit that I have seen some numbers recorded by the magazines that I have a hard time believing. Let me first say that I form my own opinions about which max speed test is reasonalble and not. The tests mentioned by Charley are reasonable to me.
Just last night I was reading a top speed stat that I found hard to believe. I will post the stats tonight so you all can decide for yourself.
Mach 26, well said on the style issue. I only considered 4 cats when I was buying. I wanted a low profile cat. I don't consider the HTM ss24 to be low profile, so it wasn't one of the cats I considered and I knew the HTM had awesome performance. If I only wanted performance, HTM would have been a serious contender. I also got a good laugh from your joke.
OK this may be a bit technical, but of the high hp blower motors I have noticed that the two guys on this string with solid roller cams, MrPumps and DBM, run or have run a 1.50 gear. All the guys with the hyd. roller cams are using something taller. I know a solid roller cam can turn much higher RPM, but this higher rpm could also be achieved with a taller gear and a smaller prop. I was wondering if the 1.50 gear is used to get max speed or is it strength of the gear/drive?

kmahtm
12-11-2001, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by Charley:
YO KMAHTM!......these are all numbers pulled from hot boat test reports, I wanted to pull boats in the class we have been talking about with 600-650hp...
1.High Torque Marine 24' SS 24 600hp 101 mph
2.Firehawk 26' 2600 Firehawk Cat 600 hp 98 mph
3. American Offshore 26' 2600 NSX 650 650 hp 101 mph
4.Eliminator 25’ 2500 Daytona Blown 468 Chevy/Blackhawk 607hp 104.3 mph
Please note the eliminator with 7 more horsepower went 3mph faster than the Htm...although it did have a blackhawk drive which you will probably say changes EVERYTHING, So.....the American Offshore a 2'...some might say 3' longer and certainly gerthier boat went the same speed with a measley 50 more HP! and the Firehawk ...a 26' boat was within 3 mph of the 24' htm with the same horsepower!!!.....hmmmmmm interesting and most people would agree all 3 of those "OTHER" boats will probably handle a little bigger water than the HTM...damn dude help me understand whats happening to your arguement ?
YOU MUST BE THE GUY THAT USES HOT BOAT MAG AS YOUR TECH GUIDE? PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU PERSONALY HAVE BEEN IN THESE BOATS WITH YOUR GPS! UNTIL THEN TALK IS CHEAP!DON'T BELEIVE EVERTHIMG YOU READ?

kmahtm
12-11-2001, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by MACH26:
Hey Riverliver,
I've got an idea, plug the hole, ditch off the tired 500hp, and clamp on a set of 300x's. You'll be good for 105-109. You may not be as fast as SVO, but we all know he can't run those speeds all the way to Havasu Springs and back! You could with the clamp ons. If you can't afford the total rerig, my Mach 26 is for sale, ready to go.
As for you KMAHTM, yes the HTM's are fast, but I haven't seen one with a pretty enough motor or a crazy enough gelcoat to not make it look like a big awkward bathtub on water. If anyone on this forum tells you style dosen't play into their decision to buy a boat, they must be a Campbell owner.
Mach26
GOOD POINT I DON'T OWN A HTM BUT IF I WANTED TO GO FAST FOR FOR THE MONEY YOU CAN'T BEAT IT. I PERSONALY THINK THE HOWARD IS THE BEST LOOKING BUT YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH WEIGHT.

DBM
12-11-2001, 03:36 PM
Hey kmahtm, the last time you took your paddle out and started to stir the bucket,you ended up with a little on your shoes and a bunch on your shirt, phewww!!!you stink,now your at it again,
Try commentary without insult,
So what your saying is hot boats tests are biased and totally without merit? While I agree with a portion of your statements,there have also been some extravegant #s recorded by hot boat about htms are these false or are they fact,isn"t this the place where htm got its big #s from in the first place?
PS:I still think you own an htm

MrHavasuCat
12-11-2001, 03:53 PM
Well I can attest the the article that ***boat did on my last boat. The boat was on the cover of 04/00. It was a DCB Mach 26 with twin 2.5 mercs (560 hp). The recorded speeds in the mag were 102 and some change. The boat was tested half full of fuel with two large guys in it. I have run that boat to 106 with less fuel and just my girlfriend and I. They did not lie about the performance of my boat so I don't know why they would about another. my.02

mrpumps HTM
12-11-2001, 05:24 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DBM:
[B]Hey kmahtm, the last time you took your paddle out and started to stir the bucket,you ended up with a little on your shoes and a bunch on your shirt, phewww!!!you stink,now your at it again,
Try commentary without insult,
So what your saying is hot boats tests are biased and totally without merit? While I agree with a portion of your statements,there have also been some extravegant #s recorded by hot boat about htms are these false or are they fact,isn"t this the place where htm got its big #s from in thA HTM SS-24
[/
DBM i don't know about false posted numbers but i know for a fact with my own eyes that family performance magazine tested steves htm (owner) on radar and gps 143.3 earlier in the year and we are planning to do it again in the next few weeks with two boats side by side our boat and steves boat if you like i could post possible the time and place for your viewing pleasure man can't we all just get along!!!

Havasu_Dreamin
12-11-2001, 05:32 PM
Since Havasu Hangin has missed this part of the thread, I will do the honors:
http://www.lamer.net/capslock.gif
Dude, take the friggin CAPS lock off, it implies you are shouting and it's a pain to read.
HD
Originally posted by kmahtm:
GOOD POINT I DON'T OWN A HTM BUT IF I WANTED TO GO FAST FOR FOR THE MONEY YOU CAN'T BEAT IT. I PERSONALY THINK THE HOWARD IS THE BEST LOOKING BUT YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH WEIGHT.

DBM
12-11-2001, 06:13 PM
SVO, I think the reason guys were running 1.36 gears in the bravos was to achieve large #s,while trying to keep the RPMS resonable due to mercury only putting out a 32" wheel at the time.
Some guys also believe a taller gear and a smaller wheel = less wear on the outdrive.
Guys are running 1.50 straight cut gears (XR drive)because thats all that is available at this time,and from what I understand is a much stronger set up,
The solid verse hyd is probably just a coincidence,the solid should make more hp and make it faster regardless of gear ratio.
Personally I liked the 1.50 ratio better.
Getting to your original post,I agree that a 871 with 8 or 950s on top,with a intercooler,(I personaly would run a set of aluminum heads also,maybe the HP 500 already comes with aluminum?)running no more than 8 PDS boost with 91 octane should get you to triple digits depending on the gears,prop ect,
However I would at least pull the motor and look at the bottom end, bearings,rods,ect and check for wear before bolting on this type of HP.

DBM
12-11-2001, 06:36 PM
MR PUMP,Im,not debaiting steves speed records,and if you noticed im not bashing htms either,but merely trying to sift thru someones mindless word drool!! while pulling their pants down!!,it seems with this guy if It,s not an htm its incapable of going fast,even when given facts,written or verble if its not the response hes looking for it can"t possibly be correct. ( THIS GUY JUST DOES NOT GET IT)
By the way do you have any info to offer regarding this thread.

riverliver
12-11-2001, 07:03 PM
Thanks for the post DBM ,think checking out the lower end is a good idea.
Still like the idea of the 871 with the 850S on top, SVO540 and i have talk alot about this and it sounds like it is the best way to go.
I do have a question about how a Whipple charger might work (Pro's and Conn's)
I hear GT Performance recommands them alot.
thank's

mrpumps HTM
12-11-2001, 08:48 PM
DBM no worries i dont know what exactly this arguement is all about. i think it might be verble masterbation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SVO 540
12-11-2001, 09:33 PM
OK boys, Just got home from a long day at the office. Gotta pay for that boat...speed ain't cheep and I got alot of speed.
DBM, You may already know this but you can change the gear ratio of the XR drive but it is done in the lower unit, not the upper. For example my upper xr drive has the 1.50 gear (as you stated, this is the only option)however by changing the gear in the lower unit my final drive ratio is 1.25.
Riverliver, go with the 8.71. Old school rules!
kmahtm, dude answer the question. What kind of boat do you have? No answer means you have a HTM.
Here is the speed example I was talking about earlier. You form your own opinions.
"Stated facts"
December 2001 Powerboat Magazine pg 92-94.
Test: 25 foot Rage from Nordic Boats. This is a v bottom with a step hull.
Power: Merc 496, 425hp
Drive: 1.50 gear with 26 pitch prop
Results: Radar 75.6 mph and GPS 77.2 at 5000 rpm.
I thought this sounded a bit fast so I ran the old slip calc. Guess what. Using the GPS speed, this boat has a slip of 5.93%. What do you guys think? Do v bottoms have less slip than cats? Is something wrong with this info from Powerboat? Radar gun not calibrated, GPS malfunction or maybe it was turning 5100 rpm. Who knows but to me it is questionable.
SVO 540 - OUT

DEL51
12-11-2001, 11:43 PM
Riverliver, If you want, create a second post for your original question.Add the spec's of your current engine and with a little luck, the post won't get sidetracked.The engine information is important and whether you intend to remove the engine and go through it or bolt on parts.GoodLuck!DEL51

DBM
12-12-2001, 07:18 AM
SVO,Good advice on the bottom end,saw pictures of your hot rod on another thread,thats a bad ride !!! (DCB Poetry in motion)

SVO 540
12-12-2001, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by DEL51:
Riverliver, If you want, create a second post for your original question.Add the spec's of your current engine and with a little luck, the post won't get sidetracked.The engine information is important and whether you intend to remove the engine and go through it or bolt on parts.GoodLuck!DEL51
Riverliver, DEL51 is right on the money. Let's get back to the topic. To make this more meaningful we need to get detailed engine specs on that non-efi HP 500. Did you say it was a 1998 model year? I will try a few of my sources. You should contact Eliminator for the engine spec info. This would be a good test of their customer service. Maybe even go direct to Mercury. If any readers out there have any specs, please post.
I found a used cam shaft that might work well but I am not a cam expert so we need some help here. The specs are .617 lift intake .632 lift exhaust and 240/248 duration at 50. The lobe center is 112.
Let's see if we can get that info on the hp500.

Charley
12-12-2001, 09:13 PM
I believe Whipples kit for the 500 HP made a 26' DCB run 102.... check out the Hot Boat magazine articles in the last 6 months... or better yet Call Dustin at Whipple... because we all know that Hot Boat reads their radar guns upside down for boats they like... or something like that right KMAHTM? Ya know I realize maybe every article isn't dead nuts accurate but gimme a break dude.....is this more likely a conspiracy against HTM or are you brainwashed?...sorry...back to the thread... mt .o2 is call Dustin Whipple.... I like my Quad rotor.
Charley

RiverDave2
12-13-2001, 09:58 AM
MR.Pumps, when where are you going to run side by side? Perhaps I'll make it to this one! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif
You going to come down to the little get together this weekend?
RD

DMB
12-14-2001, 08:39 PM
SVO 540,
HP 500 EFI was told same as non EFI,
8.2 / 502
Bore (in/mm)4.47/114
Stroke (in/mm)4.00/102
Compression 8.75:1

RPM
12-16-2001, 01:48 PM
I have a set of ported heads, EFI system, Vortech supercharger, intercooler and all required upgrades to put you over 700 HP @ 6.5 psi and will take your parts on trade. If interested, call 920-236-4220 and ask for Rod.
http://www.perfmarine.net

blowmi25
12-17-2001, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by DBM:
MR PUMP,Im,not debaiting steves speed records,and if you noticed im not bashing htms either,but merely trying to sift thru someones mindless word drool!! while pulling their pants down!!,it seems with this guy if It,s not an htm its incapable of going fast,even when given facts,written or verble if its not the response hes looking for it can"t possibly be correct. ( THIS GUY JUST DOES NOT GET IT)
By the way do you have any info to offer regarding this thread.

blowmi25
12-17-2001, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by DBM:
MR PUMP,Im,not debaiting steves speed records,and if you noticed im not bashing htms either,but merely trying to sift thru someones mindless word drool!! while pulling their pants down!!,it seems with this guy if It,s not an htm its incapable of going fast,even when given facts,written or verble if its not the response hes looking for it can"t possibly be correct. ( THIS GUY JUST DOES NOT GET IT)
By the way do you have any info to offer regarding this thread.
hi mr pump i think that dbm = ward and i'm pretty sure that they are the same guy and as for bashing on htm's please check on cats and tunnels htm chestah cheetah 7-14-01 about half way down page,name ward. i own a 22 eliminator and it is a good boat it did have a porpoise problem with the stock power plant but with power upgrade not as bad able to power through it. i did find that the sales people at eliminator have a little man complex going on or something until they see you can afford a boat.
[This message has been edited by blowmi25 (edited December 17, 2001).]

DMB
12-17-2001, 11:31 AM
Hi Blowmi25,I think you are realy(kmahtm)come on Dude lets get back to the topics and facts.

MIKEHTMSR24
12-17-2001, 07:15 PM
I am fairly new to this site BUT a lot of bashing goes on here for what I have read. I am not knocking this site and I enjoy it's presents.
I would like to let you know of a site that also is a good site for questions and answers. It is www.offshoreonly.com (http://www.offshoreonly.com)
Bruce is on the board and a great guy that can answer about any question you throw at him.
Give it a try I don't think you will be let down.
I have a buddy that has a 1999, 1 step, 25 Eliminator with a 622 ci with 820 hp N/A. He is running a labbed 30 Bravo 1 with 1.36 with a 2" shortie, one Barry Grant 1475, 705 solid lift cam, 10.1 full port and polished alum. heads, and 250 shot of nitrous. He runs 110 on motor @ 5800 and 122 @ 6400.
I have a 1999 SR HTM. It has a N/A 540 that dynoed 683 @ 5700 and 646 @ 4700. I am running a labbed 26 Bravo 1 by Bronson Hill, 1.36 with a Imco 2" shortie. I am running about 85 on GPS @ 5300 and the best it ran on light load and good chop was 89.7 @ 5600. This comes out to 11.85% slip. Prop shaft hp is probably 650.

SVO 540
12-18-2001, 08:52 PM
Riverliver, check out the string in blower motors called "blower intake". Looks like you need to head for the long beach swap meet.

liquid kroozir
12-20-2001, 06:11 PM
I have 25 Daytona 500HP Carb. Iput a420 mega blower on with 2 carbs . They were off the 500HP and set up by Nickerson. The engine is stock other the above mentioned,my best speed to date is 97.7 . The outside temp that day was a brisk 48. Boost 5.5, R.P.M 5800, 1.5 with 30 Bravo One , with a G.P.S. Cold temps were good for about 3 m.p.h.

riverliver
12-20-2001, 07:28 PM
thank's for the info Liquid Kroozir !
How dose it do coming out of the hole with a heavy load, dose it take long to get on plane?
What kind of cost was involed in your set up?
Do you know what kind of HP you may be geting?
Why did you choose the 420 versus the 671 or 871 ?
thanks

liquid kroozir
12-22-2001, 06:04 PM
Riveliver,
Initial cost was approx. 5500 from memory I did all work myself with alot of good advice from the dealer I bought it from. If I were to guess H.P. from the B&M tech manual 550-600. Went with B&M because at the time was the only one available for use under closed hatch. Whipple at the time did not have a kit available. The boat isnt bad coming on plane I NEVER HAMMER the throttle always ease into it.

SVO 540
12-22-2001, 08:14 PM
Liquid kroozir, thanks for you help on this topic. I have a few questions if you don't mind.
1. Why 5.5 pounds of boost? Did you ever consider or try more.
2. Do you run an innercooler?
3. Did you change the fuel system or fuel pump?
4. How big are your carbs and what is the jetting?
5. Did you change ignition system, like MSD?
6. Did you change ignition timing, like lock out the disrtibutor and what total advance?
7. Any other mods like new cam shaft?
8. What kind of exhaust do you run?
Sorry for asking so many questions but they will be helpfull in getting Riverliver to 100MPH. By the way your boat must be set up very well. I calc your slip to be 6.2%. That is very good.
SVO 540 - OUT

liquid kroozir
12-23-2001, 07:41 AM
SVO 540,
I calculated slip to alittle lessthan 11%. No I dont have a innercooler yet.
I was told not to run more than 5lbs with compression I have on pump gas.
Plummed fuel system with .5 inch line from tanks to regulator.
I started off with Mercury ignition system, just changed module,I got the module from an old Hot Boat article Jay Steele did. WRONG PART NUMBER.Was supposed to be V-6 module with if memory serves me right has 12 deg. advance,Igot aV-8 module that had 22 deg. advance.I used the V-8 module and ran 32deg. total. This year Iswitched to M.S.D. ,my father machined me a new advance stop bushing so I set base timing at 18 deg. and run total at 30 deg.If Iwould have correct merc. module Iwould just have used MSD box and Rev limiter,MSD distributer gets alot of moiture in it and I got the marine version.
The carbs were 800 cfm from the HP 500 sent to Dean Nickerson . He machined off choke towers and reworked them.I dont know exactly what that means,I do know they are now rated at 920 cfm 6.5 power valve in primary meter block only. Primary jet are 80 secondary are 88, carbs are not boost referenced.
This winter Im changing heads and cam. Im putting on a set of Dart Pro 1 that have alot of porting work done and the chambers have been opened up.Also changing cam to one with more lift and duration .