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View Full Version : No WMD Stockpiles in Iraq? Not Exactly



Steve 1
10-08-2004, 03:21 PM
Friday, Oct. 8, 2004 11:16 a.m. EDT
No WMD Stockpiles in Iraq? Not Exactly ...
Is it really true that Saddam Hussein had no "stockpiles" of weapons of mass destruction before the U.S. invaded in March 2003?
Not exactly - at least not if one counts the 500 tons of uranium that the Iraqi dictator kept stored at his al Tuwaitha nuclear weapons development plant.
Story Continues Below
The press hasn't made much of Saddam's 500-ton uranium stockpile, downplaying the story to such an extent that most Americans aren't even aware of it.
But it's been reported - albeit in a by-the-way fashion - by the New York Times and a handful of other media outlets. And one of Saddam's nuclear scientists, Jaffar Dhia Jaffar, admitted to the BBC earlier this year, "We had 500 tons of yellow cake [uranium] in Baghdad."
Surely 500 tons of anything qualifies as a "stockpile." And press reports going back more than a decade give no indication that weapons inspectors had any idea the Iraqi dictator had amassed such a staggering amount of nuke fuel until the U.S. invaded.
That's when the International Atomic Energy Agency was finally able to take a full inventory, and suddenly the 500-ton figure emerged.
Still, experts say Saddam's massive uranium stockpile was largely benign.
Largely? Well, except for the 1.8 tons of uranium that Saddam had begun to enrich. The U.S. Energy Department considered that stockpile so dangerous that it mounted an unprecedented airlift operation four months ago to remove the enriched uranium stash from al Tuwaitha.
But didn't most of that enrichment take place before the first Gulf War - with no indication whatsoever that Saddam was capable of proceeding any further toward his dream of acquiring the bomb?
That seems to be the consensus. But there's also disturbing evidence to the contrary.
David Kay, the former chief U.S. weapons inspector who was hailed by the press last year for pronouncing Iraq WMD-free, shared some interesting observations with Congress this past January about goings-on at al Tuwaitha in 2000 and 2001.
"[The Iraqis] started building new buildings, renovating it, hiring some new staff and bringing them together," Kay said. "And they ran a few physics experiments, re-ran experiments they'd actually run in the '80s."
"Fortunately, from my point of view," he added, "Operation Iraqi Freedom intervened and we don't know how or how fast that would have gone ahead. ... Given their history, it was certainly an emerging program that I would not have looked forward to their continuing to pursue."
Kay's successor, Charles Duelfer, also has confirmed that nuclear research at al Tuwaitha was continuing right up until the U.S. invasion, telling Congress in March that Saddam's scientists were "preserving and expanding [their] knowledge to design and develop nuclear weapons."
One laboratory at al Tuwaitha, Duelfer said, "was intentionally focused on research applicable for nuclear weapons development."
Still, most experts say that Iraq was nowhere near being able to produce nuclear weapons, which is a good thing, considering how much raw material Saddam had to work with.
Writing in the London Evening Standard earlier this year, Norman Dombey, professor of theoretical physics at the University of Sussex, walked his readers through a simple calculation:
"You have a warehouse containing 500 tons of natural uranium; you need 25 kilograms of U235 to build one weapon. How many nuclear weapons can you build? The answer is 142."
Fortunately for the world, Saddam didn't have the nuclear enrichment technology to convert his 500-ton uranium stockpile into weapons-grade bombmaking material.
Or did he?
After he was captured by U.S. forces in Baghdad last year, Dr. Mahdi Obeidi, who ran Saddam's nuclear centrifuge program until 1997, had some disturbing news for coalition debriefers.
He kept blueprints for a nuclear centrifuge, along with some actual centrifuge components, stored at his home - buried in the front yard - awaiting orders from Baghdad to proceed.
"I had to maintain the program to the bitter end," Obeidi said recently. His only other choice was death.
In his new book, "The Bomb in My Garden," the Iraqi physicist explains that his nuclear stash was the key that could have unlocked and restarted Saddam's bombmaking program.
"The centrifuge is the single most dangerous piece of nuclear technology," he writes. "With advances in centrifuge technology, it is now possible to conceal a uranium enrichment program inside a single warehouse."
Last week Dr. Obeidi warned in a New York Times op-ed piece that Saddam could have restarted his nuclear program "with a snap of his fingers."
Perhaps the 500-ton stockpile of nuclear fuel that Saddam kept at al Tuwaitha wasn't quite as benign as our media like to pretend.

Mullet
10-08-2004, 05:20 PM
got a link or did you write this yourself?

Steve 1
10-08-2004, 05:23 PM
Find it yourself!

Mullet
10-08-2004, 06:48 PM
Find it yourself!
You know you are in violation of copyright laws? Well actually it is ***boat that would get in trouble for you pasting something without even the authors name to it.
You think you are so smart because you can cut and paste. Woooo!

Steve 1
10-08-2004, 06:52 PM
You know you are in violation of copyright laws? Well actually it is ***boat that would get in trouble for you pasting something without even the authors name to it.
You think you are so smart because you can cut and paste. Woooo!
No genius it is what I cut and Paste!!

steelcomp
10-08-2004, 06:53 PM
You know you are in violation of copyright laws? Well actually it is ***boat that would get in trouble for you pasting something without even the authors name to it.
You think you are so smart because you can cut and paste. Woooo!
Smart enough to find it...more than can be said for uninformed parrots like you. :D
If more people would really do their own research there wouldn't be the stupidity that runs rampant in this country, like people whao actually believe the shit the liberal mainstream media is shoveling.
Learn something...don't just be a parrot.
Find it yourself.

Dave C
10-08-2004, 06:55 PM
violation of copyright laws? He is? but he didn't profit from it... so he's NOT... sorry.
find it yourself... now that's funny! :boxingguy
You know you are in violation of copyright laws? Well actually it is ***boat that would get in trouble for you pasting something without even the authors name to it.
You think you are so smart because you can cut and paste. Woooo!

steelcomp
10-08-2004, 06:58 PM
GW did all right!!! I still don't think he handed Kerry his ass like he should. He needs to address things like beheadings, and get REALLY pissed about it. Say "NO MORE! Next one, bombs are gonna fly, you filthy coward SOB's. :crossx: ", and then call Kerry the spaid he is. Right there on nat'l TV.
The stem cell question was GREAT! First time I've heard anyone came out and tell the truth about it. I also liked the abortion and fed. money question.
Good job, GW. :wink:

steelcomp
10-08-2004, 07:04 PM
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Steve 1 again.
Good post Steve. There's a lot of info confirming that and other evidence of Sadaam's EXTENSIVE weapon's programs.

Mullet
10-08-2004, 07:05 PM
Published on Saturday, September 18, 2004
Iraq Had No WMD: The Final Verdict
WASHINGTON - The comprehensive 15-month search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq has concluded that the only chemical or biological agents that Saddam Hussein's regime was working on before last year's invasion were small quantities of poisons, most likely for use in assassinations.
A draft of the Iraq Survey Group's final report circulating in Washington found no sign of the alleged illegal stockpiles that the US and Britain presented as the justification for going to war, nor did it find any evidence of efforts to reconstitute Iraq's nuclear weapons programme.
It also appears to play down an interim report which suggested there was evidence that Iraq was developing "test amounts" of ricin for use in weapons. Instead, the ISG report says in its conclusion that there was evidence to suggest the Iraqi regime planned to restart its illegal weapons programmes if UN sanctions were lifted.
Charles Duelfer, the head of the ISG, has said he intends to deliver his final report by the end of the month. It is likely to become a heated issue in the election campaign.
President George Bush now admits that stockpiles have not been found in Iraq but claimed as recently as Thursday that "Saddam Hussein had the capability of making weapons, and he could have passed that capability on to the enemy".
The draft Duelfer report, according to the New York Times, finds no evidence of a capability, but only of an intention to rebuild that capability once the UN embargo had been removed and Iraq was no longer the target of intense international scrutiny.
The finding adds weight to Mr Bush's assertions on the long-term danger posed by the former Iraqi leader, but it also suggests that, contrary to the administration's claims, diplomacy and containment were working prior to the invasion.
The draft report was handed to British, US and Australian experts at a meeting in London earlier this month, according to the New York Times. It largely confirms the findings of Mr Duelfer's predecessor, David Kay, who concluded "we were almost all wrong" in thinking Saddam had stockpiled weapons. The Duelfer report goes into greater detail.
Mr Kay's earlier findings mentioned the existence of a network of laboratories run by the Iraqi intelligence service, and suggested that the regime could be producing "test amounts" of chemical weapons and researching the use of ricin in weapons.
Subsequent inspections of the clandestine labs, under Mr Duelfer's leadership, found they were capable of producing small quantities of lethal chemical and biological agents, more useful for assassinations of individuals than for inflicting mass casualties.
Mr Duelfer, according to the draft, does not exclude the possibility that some weapons materials could have been smuggled out of Iraq before the war, a possibility raised by the administration and its supporters. However, the report apparently produces no significant evidence to support the claim. Nor does it find any evidence of any action by the Saddam regime to convert dual-use industrial equipment to weapons production.
"I think we know exactly how this is going to play out," said Joseph Cirincione, a proliferation expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
"You'll see a very elaborate spin operation. But there's not much new here from what the ISG reported before," he said. "There are still no weapons, no production of weapons and no programmes to begin the production of weapons. What we're left with here is that Saddam Hussein might have had the desire to rebuild the capability to build those weapons."
"Well, lots of people have desire for these weapons. Lots of people have intent. But that's not what we went to war for."
The motives for war, meanwhile, came under fresh scrutiny last night as the Telegraph reported that Tony Blair was warned in Foreign Office papers a year before the invasion of the scale of dealing with a post-Saddam Iraq.
The Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokesman, Sir Menzies Campbell, said that if authenticated, the papers "demonstrate that the government agreed with the Bush administration on regime change in Iraq more than a year before military action was taken".
Mr Duelfer, who is reported to still be in Baghdad, did not respond to a request for an interview on the question of WMD yesterday.
Earlier this year, he told the Guardian that he expected his report would leave "some unanswered questions".

steelcomp
10-08-2004, 07:07 PM
Published on Saturday, September 18, 2004
Iraq Had No WMD: The Final Verdict
WASHINGTON - The comprehensive 15-month search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq has concluded that the only chemical or biological agents that Saddam Hussein's regime was working on before last year's invasion were small quantities of poisons, most likely for use in assassinations.
A draft of the Iraq Survey Group's final report circulating in Washington found no sign of the alleged illegal stockpiles that the US and Britain presented as the justification for going to war, nor did it find any evidence of efforts to reconstitute Iraq's nuclear weapons programme.
It also appears to play down an interim report which suggested there was evidence that Iraq was developing "test amounts" of ricin for use in weapons. Instead, the ISG report says in its conclusion that there was evidence to suggest the Iraqi regime planned to restart its illegal weapons programmes if UN sanctions were lifted.
Charles Duelfer, the head of the ISG, has said he intends to deliver his final report by the end of the month. It is likely to become a heated issue in the election campaign.
President George Bush now admits that stockpiles have not been found in Iraq but claimed as recently as Thursday that "Saddam Hussein had the capability of making weapons, and he could have passed that capability on to the enemy".
The draft Duelfer report, according to the New York Times, finds no evidence of a capability, but only of an intention to rebuild that capability once the UN embargo had been removed and Iraq was no longer the target of intense international scrutiny.
The finding adds weight to Mr Bush's assertions on the long-term danger posed by the former Iraqi leader, but it also suggests that, contrary to the administration's claims, diplomacy and containment were working prior to the invasion.
The draft report was handed to British, US and Australian experts at a meeting in London earlier this month, according to the New York Times. It largely confirms the findings of Mr Duelfer's predecessor, David Kay, who concluded "we were almost all wrong" in thinking Saddam had stockpiled weapons. The Duelfer report goes into greater detail.
Mr Kay's earlier findings mentioned the existence of a network of laboratories run by the Iraqi intelligence service, and suggested that the regime could be producing "test amounts" of chemical weapons and researching the use of ricin in weapons.
Subsequent inspections of the clandestine labs, under Mr Duelfer's leadership, found they were capable of producing small quantities of lethal chemical and biological agents, more useful for assassinations of individuals than for inflicting mass casualties.
Mr Duelfer, according to the draft, does not exclude the possibility that some weapons materials could have been smuggled out of Iraq before the war, a possibility raised by the administration and its supporters. However, the report apparently produces no significant evidence to support the claim. Nor does it find any evidence of any action by the Saddam regime to convert dual-use industrial equipment to weapons production.
"I think we know exactly how this is going to play out," said Joseph Cirincione, a proliferation expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
"You'll see a very elaborate spin operation. But there's not much new here from what the ISG reported before," he said. "There are still no weapons, no production of weapons and no programmes to begin the production of weapons. What we're left with here is that Saddam Hussein might have had the desire to rebuild the capability to build those weapons."
"Well, lots of people have desire for these weapons. Lots of people have intent. But that's not what we went to war for."
The motives for war, meanwhile, came under fresh scrutiny last night as the Telegraph reported that Tony Blair was warned in Foreign Office papers a year before the invasion of the scale of dealing with a post-Saddam Iraq.
The Liberal Democrat foreign affairs spokesman, Sir Menzies Campbell, said that if authenticated, the papers "demonstrate that the government agreed with the Bush administration on regime change in Iraq more than a year before military action was taken".
Mr Duelfer, who is reported to still be in Baghdad, did not respond to a request for an interview on the question of WMD yesterday.
Earlier this year, he told the Guardian that he expected his report would leave "some unanswered questions".
I guess there's more to the story than they were willing to admit to! :hammer2:

Steve 1
10-08-2004, 07:28 PM
David Limbaugh
Friday, Oct. 8, 2004
Here we go again. Yet another earth-shattering report that Saddam Hussein, after all, did not possess stockpiles of WMD immediately prior to the American invasion of Iraq. How many more times must we hear this before the election?
Charles Duelfer, the chief of the Iraq Survey Group (ISG) - the organization consisting of 1,400 British, U.S. and Australian military experts searching for Iraqi WMD - announced that Iraq's nuclear program had deteriorated since 1991 and that the country had no stockpiles of biological or chemical weapons.
Interestingly, just a few days before, CNS News, in a report I link to on my new blog at www.davidlimbaugh.com, reported that recently confiscated Iraqi intelligence documents show that Saddam was working with terrorists to target Americans with mustard gas and anthrax, both considered WMD.
Frankly, my head is spinning with all the conflicting reports about Saddam and his alleged WMD or lack thereof. Some time ago, I gave up hope that we'd ever find a smoking gun on Iraqi WMD. But even the ISG report conceded that Saddam still was intent on developing WMD and that the "guiding theme" of his regime was to be able to start making them again with as short a lead time as possible.
I obviously don't know if Saddam had renewed his WMD program or accumulated stockpiles of them, but neither does anyone else, except Saddam and some in his inner circle. If he did have stockpiles, he either hid them in that vast country or transferred them out.
But let's assume he didn't have them. So what? What does that prove? What does it say about President Bush's decision to attack Iraq, partially on the basis of Saddam's supposed WMD stockpiles?
Our intelligence agencies clearly said that Saddam did have WMD stockpiles and that he was actively pursuing the development of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons.
In the vice-presidential debate Tuesday night, John Edwards said that President Bush erred in not giving the sanctions more time to work. Oh? Perhaps he didn't read the ISG report they are gleefully touting.
As Tony Blair said, "Just as I have had to accept that the evidence now is that there were not stockpiles of actual weapons ready to be deployed, I hope others have the honesty to accept (SET ITAL) that the report also shows that sanctions weren't working (END ITAL)."
And can we get real here about the inspections process? If we are just now gaining confidence that Iraq had no WMD stockpiles after being in control of and thoroughly searching that nation for over a year, how could we have ever relied on weapons inspectors with limited access to a foreign land controlled by a hostile dictator?
We couldn't, because it's impossible to prove a negative. What we could be sure of is that he violated 17 U.N. resolutions and the peace treaties following Gulf War I, that he had and used WMD, and that he never met his burden of proving to us that he had disposed of the weapons.
In fact, he behaved as a leader who still had those weapons, as he played cat and mouse with the inspectors and filed a bogus 12,000-page "compliance" report.
How could President Bush have done anything other than attack Iraq? Our intelligence agencies and foreign intelligence services said he had WMD, and Saddam himself behaved as if he had WMD.
Moreover, Saddam had a history of sponsoring terrorists, including the families of the Palestinian suicide bombers. We know he hated the United States, loved terrorists, either had or was trying to produce WMD, and would have - had we permitted him to remain in power - handed those off to terrorists to use against the United States or its allies.
President Bush announced the Bush Doctrine shortly after 9-11, and it involved taking the fight to the terrorists and their sponsoring nation states and, if necessary, doing so preemptively - attacking them before they had a chance to attack us.
Based on the information President Bush had, indeed, based on the information we have now, he had to take out Saddam. And you can be sure that if he hadn't and we were later attacked by terrorists with WMD acquired through Saddam, Democrats would crucify President Bush for not doing enough.
While John Kerry says President Bush has hurt our credibility with foreign nations, a nation doesn't gain credibility by making nice, but by following up on its promises, threats, and commitments, and by enforcing resolutions, as the president has done.
The United States is, or will be, safer in the long run because President Bush had the wisdom and courage to dethrone Saddam Hussein. God bless President Bush.

steelcomp
10-08-2004, 07:47 PM
Funny how you don't hear about that on the main stream media.
David Limbaugh
Friday, Oct. 8, 2004
Here we go again. Yet another earth-shattering report that Saddam Hussein, after all, did not possess stockpiles of WMD immediately prior to the American invasion of Iraq. How many more times must we hear this before the election?
Charles Duelfer, the chief of the Iraq Survey Group (ISG) - the organization consisting of 1,400 British, U.S. and Australian military experts searching for Iraqi WMD - announced that Iraq's nuclear program had deteriorated since 1991 and that the country had no stockpiles of biological or chemical weapons.
Interestingly, just a few days before, CNS News, in a report I link to on my new blog at www.davidlimbaugh.com, reported that recently confiscated Iraqi intelligence documents show that Saddam was working with terrorists to target Americans with mustard gas and anthrax, both considered WMD.
Frankly, my head is spinning with all the conflicting reports about Saddam and his alleged WMD or lack thereof. Some time ago, I gave up hope that we'd ever find a smoking gun on Iraqi WMD. But even the ISG report conceded that Saddam still was intent on developing WMD and that the "guiding theme" of his regime was to be able to start making them again with as short a lead time as possible.
I obviously don't know if Saddam had renewed his WMD program or accumulated stockpiles of them, but neither does anyone else, except Saddam and some in his inner circle. If he did have stockpiles, he either hid them in that vast country or transferred them out.
But let's assume he didn't have them. So what? What does that prove? What does it say about President Bush's decision to attack Iraq, partially on the basis of Saddam's supposed WMD stockpiles?
Our intelligence agencies clearly said that Saddam did have WMD stockpiles and that he was actively pursuing the development of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons.
In the vice-presidential debate Tuesday night, John Edwards said that President Bush erred in not giving the sanctions more time to work. Oh? Perhaps he didn't read the ISG report they are gleefully touting.
As Tony Blair said, "Just as I have had to accept that the evidence now is that there were not stockpiles of actual weapons ready to be deployed, I hope others have the honesty to accept (SET ITAL) that the report also shows that sanctions weren't working (END ITAL)."
And can we get real here about the inspections process? If we are just now gaining confidence that Iraq had no WMD stockpiles after being in control of and thoroughly searching that nation for over a year, how could we have ever relied on weapons inspectors with limited access to a foreign land controlled by a hostile dictator?
We couldn't, because it's impossible to prove a negative. What we could be sure of is that he violated 17 U.N. resolutions and the peace treaties following Gulf War I, that he had and used WMD, and that he never met his burden of proving to us that he had disposed of the weapons.
In fact, he behaved as a leader who still had those weapons, as he played cat and mouse with the inspectors and filed a bogus 12,000-page "compliance" report.
How could President Bush have done anything other than attack Iraq? Our intelligence agencies and foreign intelligence services said he had WMD, and Saddam himself behaved as if he had WMD.
Moreover, Saddam had a history of sponsoring terrorists, including the families of the Palestinian suicide bombers. We know he hated the United States, loved terrorists, either had or was trying to produce WMD, and would have - had we permitted him to remain in power - handed those off to terrorists to use against the United States or its allies.
President Bush announced the Bush Doctrine shortly after 9-11, and it involved taking the fight to the terrorists and their sponsoring nation states and, if necessary, doing so preemptively - attacking them before they had a chance to attack us.
Based on the information President Bush had, indeed, based on the information we have now, he had to take out Saddam. And you can be sure that if he hadn't and we were later attacked by terrorists with WMD acquired through Saddam, Democrats would crucify President Bush for not doing enough.
While John Kerry says President Bush has hurt our credibility with foreign nations, a nation doesn't gain credibility by making nice, but by following up on its promises, threats, and commitments, and by enforcing resolutions, as the president has done.
The United States is, or will be, safer in the long run because President Bush had the wisdom and courage to dethrone Saddam Hussein. God bless President Bush.

Steve 1
10-08-2004, 07:58 PM
Comp LOL you mean our nice Leftist mass media?? That whole rats nest needs a good cleaning.

steelcomp
10-08-2004, 08:59 PM
Comp LOL you mean our nice Leftist mass media?? That whole rats nest needs a good cleaning.
Yeah, and I think Dan Rather opened the cage door. I hope they push to find out who forged those docs. That's bad s**t! Someone is hiding in...hmmm...where can you hide today? :confused:

Mullet
10-08-2004, 09:01 PM
Beaumont

steelcomp
10-08-2004, 09:09 PM
:cool: Beaumont

Dave C
10-09-2004, 09:10 AM
suggestion... read the report when it comes out.
I read the 9/11 report and the first report to congress on WMD and I came away with an entirely different impression than was reported by the BIG media.

***boat
10-09-2004, 12:21 PM
You know you are in violation of copyright laws? Well actually it is ***boat that would get in trouble for you pasting something without even the authors name to it.
You think you are so smart because you can cut and paste. Woooo!
For the record that is false.

Dave C
10-10-2004, 10:41 AM
isn't that what I said?
For the record that is false.
J/K.. please don't hurt me. ;)
:hammer2: