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Seadog
10-08-2004, 04:55 PM
If 9/11 had never happened — if debate about domestic policy had not been drowned out by the roar of war — the potential domestic ramifications of this election would give it unusual nation-shaping power. To understand why is to understand some of the Democratic rage about the specter of a second term for George W. Bush.
He has a multifaceted agenda for weakening crucial components of the Democratic Party, factions that depend on cosseting by the federal government. Consider trial lawyers and organized labor.
John Kerry's selection of John Edwards as running mate was a blunder, and not just because Kerry probably will lose Edwards' North Carolina. The Edwards selection ratifies a provocative fact: trial lawyers have become the Democrats' most important faction. This has energized small-business owners, the self-employed, doctors and others who worry that they live one lawsuit away from ruin. Such people, now aroused, may propel tort reform that will curtail the windfalls that make trial lawyers the Democrats' largest source of contributions.
Another Democratic faction, organized labor, profits from coercive laws that make mandatory some of the $8 billion it collects in members' dues. Substantial sums flow into Democratic coffers. Furthermore, organized labor is, increasingly, government organized as an interest group — public employees unions. The growth of organized labor is in those unions, whose members tend to vote Democratic, for government growth.
Bush is pressing to put hundreds of thousands of federal jobs up for competition with the private sector. Grover Norquist of Americans for Tax Reform says: "The people who cut the Pentagon lawn are government employees. Why?" People listed in the phone book will do it cheaper. How many of the 15 million state and local government jobs could be privatized, with how many billions of dollars in savings?
The public education lobby — one in 10 delegates to the Democratic convention was a member of a teachers union — wants government to keep impediments in the way of competition. That means not empowering parents with school choice, including the choice of private schools, which have significantly lower per-pupil costs.
Welfare reform, the largest legislative achievement of the 1990s, diminished the Democratic Party's dependency-bureaucracy complex. That complex consists of wards of government and their government supervisors. And Bush's "ownership society" is another step in the plan to reduce the supply of government by reducing the demand for it.
That felicitous formulation, from Jonathan Rauch's masterful analysis of Bush's domestic ambitions (National Journal, July 26, 2003) follows from two axioms of which conservatives are fond: Give a person a fish and you give the person a meal; teach the person to fish and you give a livelihood. And: No one washes a rental car. Meaning people behave most responsibly about what they own. Hence Bush's menu of incentives for private retirement, health, education and savings accounts.
Conservatives hope such measures will encourage aptitudes that will make the welfare state compatible with traditional American individualism and self- reliance. And conservatives hope such aptitudes will result in Republican attitudes, especially among the elderly and other persons with portfolios of equities.
Forty years ago, when President Johnson trounced Barry Goldwater, the elderly were the most conservative age cohort. Today the elderly are the most liberal.
About 2.4 million Americans die each year. Most are elderly and a majority of that majority are Democrats, for two reasons: Most of them formed their political sensibilities in the Roosevelt-Truman-Kennedy-Johnson era of Democratic presidential ascendancy. And the elderly are devoted to big government: Social Security and Medicare by themselves are 33 percent of federal outlays.
About 7 million members of the elderly cohort from that Democratic presidential era have died since the 2000 election. And a Republican-leaning cohort that the Bush agenda aims to enlarge — owners of stock — continues to expand. In 1980, 20 percent of adults owned stock. Today 60 percent do, as do more than 70 percent of those who will vote on Nov. 2.
In addition to the economic rationale for the Bush tax cuts, they have the political purpose of crimping Democrats' abilities to satisfy their factions' desires for spending. And Bush's private retirement, health and education savings accounts would implement the theory that, as Rauch says, Republicans will empower the people, who in turn will empower Republicans.
Furthermore, Social Security private investment accounts would simultaneously multiply investors and diminish both dependence on government and resistance to reduction of it. Among some prescient Democrats this pincer strategy provokes anxiety, and some of today's fury.
This column by George Will most aptly describes the basic fear the Democrats cannot contain. The world is leaving them back in the 60's and they have no way out.

steelcomp
10-08-2004, 05:00 PM
By-By!! Here's your hat, what's your hurry! Don't let the door...and so on. :D

Back Forty
10-08-2004, 05:01 PM
I have it figured out Kaknlawyer not only dreams of being a lawyer, the GAS PUMPER wants to be a trial lawyer. Hmm..
HEY WOOD WORKER... ARE YOU LOST..? :confused:

Mullet
10-08-2004, 05:15 PM
So whats worse?
Liberal Democratic Lawyers who sue business's, or Conservative Republicans that bilk people for millions (enron). Its a double edge sword that you and I will never win in as long as this democracy (ha) is a two party system.
Democracy in this country is screwed. As people we should have more than 2 choices. In reality we should have at least 4 people to choose from but because of campain finance reform and special favors for supporters we probably will always have what we are stuck with. No alternatives and this year, the best man for the job will not be taking the reins, not on the ballot.

058
10-08-2004, 08:54 PM
So whats worse?
Liberal Democratic Lawyers who sue business's, or Conservative Republicans that bilk people for millions (enron). Its a double edge sword that you and I will never win in as long as this democracy (ha) is a two party system.
Democracy in this country is screwed. As people we should have more than 2 choices. In reality we should have at least 4 people to choose from but because of campain finance reform and special favors for supporters we probably will always have what we are stuck with. No alternatives and this year, the best man for the job will not be taking the reins, not on the ballot.Learn what Enron was all about before you use them as an example, if you are capable. There is alot more to Enron than the liberal media will ever allow you to see.....learn the facts before spouting off about something you obviously know NOTHING about.

Mullet
10-08-2004, 08:57 PM
Learn what Enron was all about before you use them as an example, if you are capable. There is alot more to Enron than the liberal media will ever allow you to see.....learn the facts before spouting off about something you obviously know NOTHING about.
what facts am I wrong on? I dont recall stating any facts just posing a question where in the end the people get screwed.
Why are you angry?

steelcomp
10-08-2004, 09:08 PM
what facts am I wrong on? I dont recall stating any facts just posing a question where in the end the people get screwed.
Why are you angry?
What do you know about Enron? What are your facts? (not angry...asking peacefully)

058
10-08-2004, 09:18 PM
Because Enron has been the whipping boy for all that is used against the Republican party...News Flash!!!! Enron contributed more money to Klinton than they ever did to GWB and Kenny-boy spent more time in the Whitehouse's bedrooms at Klinton's pleasure than with GWB. Now...on to the subject at hand.....Enron's downfall was a result of Calif. then govenor Davis' terminating long term energy contracts in favor of Spot market energy purchases for a short term lower price. This sent Enron into a financial tail spin, almost bankrupted Enron...[hold the tears for now] but the President of Enron went without a paycheck for 18 months while they weathered this particular storm and since Calif. was over 90% of Enron's business even a moron could see the implications this would present to this company. [Would you like to go 18 mos without a paycheck?]....I didn't think so. We as Californians saw electricity rate increases of 200-300% long before this became National news. But rather me go on and on about the debacle that took place in 1999 and 2000 I'll let you do the follow-up research so that you can see first hand what took place that led up to the downfall of Enron and all the fallout as a results.....form your own opinion after reviewing the FACTS and then get back to me.

Mullet
10-08-2004, 09:20 PM
let me quote a cnn. article
"The collapse of Enron, the largest bankruptcy in U.S. history, led to thousands of employees losing their life savings in 401(k) plans tied to the energy company's stock."

Mullet
10-08-2004, 09:24 PM
Because Enron has been the whipping boy for all that is used against the Republican party...News Flash!!!! Enron contributed more money to Klinton than they ever did to GWB and Kenny-boy spent more time in the Whitehouse's bedrooms at Klinton's pleasure than with GWB. Now...on to the subject at hand.....Enron's downfall was a result of Calif. then govenor Davis' terminating long term energy contracts in favor of Spot market energy purchases for a short term lower price. This sent Enron into a financial tail spin, almost bankrupted Enron...[hold the tears for now] but the President of Enron went without a paycheck for 18 months while they weathered this particular storm and since Calif. was over 90% of Enron's business even a moron could see the implications this would present to this company. [Would you like to go 18 mos without a paycheck?]....I didn't think so. We as Californians saw electricity rate increases of 200-300% long before this became National news. But rather me go on and on about the debacle that took place in 1999 and 2000 I'll let you do the follow-up research so that you can see first hand what took place that led up to the downfall of Enron and all the fallout as a results.....form your own opinion after reviewing the FACTS and then get back to me.
Nice write up.

steelcomp
10-08-2004, 09:25 PM
let me quote a cnn. article
"The collapse of Enron, the largest bankruptcy in U.S. history, led to thousands of employees losing their life savings in 401(k) plans tied to the energy company's stock."
There's a good objective and non partisan news source! :hammer2:

Mullet
10-08-2004, 09:29 PM
I'll admit it, I was wrong in my analogy.
Yet I still feel that..........ah screw it, Im to tired. LOL

steelcomp
10-08-2004, 09:31 PM
let me quote a cnn. article
"The collapse of Enron, the largest bankruptcy in U.S. history, led to thousands of employees losing their life savings in 401(k) plans tied to the energy company's stock."
so how is this some conservative republican "bilking" anyone?
Here's something to think about.
Would you put your entire life savings into one company?

058
10-08-2004, 09:32 PM
let me quote a cnn. article
"The collapse of Enron, the largest bankruptcy in U.S. history, led to thousands of employees losing their life savings in 401(k) plans tied to the energy company's stock."CNN....Communist News Network or Clinton News Network. Yes they did loose their 401K or some lost their life savings but I have limited sympathy for them as they should know not to put all their "eggs in one basket" The 1st thing a financial adviser will tell you is to diversity for your portfolio, not invest everything into one investment and you NEVER gamble what you cannot afford to loose....INVESTMENTS ARE A GAMBLE!!!!!! YOU CAN LOOSE MONEY! HELLO!!!!! :hammerhea

steelcomp
10-08-2004, 09:33 PM
Mullet...I really appreciate being able to discuss differences of opinion as we (all) have here and keep it friendly. Thanks for that. You got points. :D
I'm beat...going to call it a night.
steel

Mullet
10-08-2004, 09:38 PM
CNN....Communist News Network or Clinton News Network. Yes they did loose their 401K or some lost their life savings but I have limited sympathy for them as they should know not to put all their "eggs in one basket" The 1st thing a financial adviser will tell you is to diversity for your portfolio, not invest everything into one investment and you NEVER gamble what you cannot afford to loose....INVESTMENTS ARE A GAMBLE!!!!!! YOU CAN LOOSE MONEY! HELLO!!!!! :hammerhea
oh yeah, well....well....well...well
Its spelled "lose", lol :D

058
10-08-2004, 09:50 PM
oh yeah, well....well....well...well
Its spelled "lose", lol :D
I stand corrected......"Lose" [looz] v. [lost], losing. 1 To fail to find in a customary place: To mislay: To fail to sustain or keep......ect....yada yada yada....