Lake Havasu Legal Fund

[LakeRacer]

For those of you who are interested in seeing the problem resolved with Lake Havasu Marina the following account has been set up:
Lake Havasu Legal Fund
P.O. Box 39611
Phoenix, AZ 85069
Make your checks payable to Lake Havasu Legal Fund.
Thanks for your support

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Good deal! I'll be sending along my donation to the fund.
Hey HB, how about making this thread a sticky please?

[Huckleberry]

Check going out with tomorrow's mail!
Now is the time for everyone to pony up folks! We've all been chattering about this for some time now. It time to put our money where our mouth's are.
For those who do not know Art, he's a real standup guy and has taken the lead on this charge. He has set up this account to help ALL OF US. But, he cannot help us if we do not help ourselves. Right now, that help needs to come in the form of monetary donations. Dig deep and lets all give to help ensure our rights as boaters are respected. You all know the saying, Put up or...
I agree with Havasu Dreamin, can we make this a sticky???

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Huck is right. Art has graciously taken up leading this cause and it's now time for all of to help ourselves. We always talk about people that need to take responsibility for their own actions, well here is a chance for us to take responsibility for something that is wrong and affecting all of us in one wat or another. This is something that we, as Performance Boaters, need to get organizedd behind and fight the battle for each and everyone of us. Remember, all we want is equal and fair treatment under the law and the concession contract to be abided by.

[Essex502]

Art, you'll have my check as soon as it can get there 'cause it'll be in tomorrow's mail. Good work. Thanks!

[Huckleberry]

Does anyone know where the thread is that folks pledged how much they will donate to the fund? It's time to bring that one back tot he top again. I will PM eachone of those who pledged to get the dinero rolling in.
Thanks,
Huck

[Keith E. Sayre]

Thanks for taking the point Art.
Keith Sayre

[boxscore]

Does anyone know where the thread is that folks pledged how much they will donate to the fund? It's time to bring that one back tot he top again. I will PM eachone of those who pledged to get the dinero rolling in.
Thanks,
Huck
It was on a thread that I can't locate either...something like "legal boat banned from the Marina"

[That Guy]

$500 coming from the Sbark1's.....$250 for each of Mrs. Sbark's......Huck you know the rest.... :D :D

[LakeRacer]

Does anyone know where the thread is that folks pledged how much they will donate to the fund? It's time to bring that one back tot he top again. I will PM eachone of those who pledged to get the dinero rolling in.
Thanks,
Huck
Check this out Donation Thread (http://www.***boat.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59079&page=9&pp=25)
It's nine pages in.

[Boozer]

So how would we go about getting this fund and the reason the fund exists into publication in all the boating mags? If that could happen we would probably get so much money donated we could buy the marina!

[Essex502]

How about it ***boat...forward the thread to the editor? How about mentioning it in the next issue? Maybe as an insert instead of those obnoxious renewal and subscription cards? :D

[boxscore]

Charley 100
Boxscore 200
Essex502 200
Havasu Dreamin 200
Havasu Cig 100 +
Speedman 250
MBrown2 100
SBark1 500
LakeRacer 200
Huckleberry 200

[Essex502]

If everyone on the list comes through and I expect they will that's a great start. All of the rest of the interested parties are greatly encouraged to contribute to this effort as it affects all of us who travel to Lake Havasu. Any amounts are appreciated.
Thanks in advance for your support.

[Krumbsnatcher]

For those of you who are interested in seeing the problem resolved with Lake Havasu Marina the following account has been set up:
Lake Havasu Legal Fund
P.O. Box 39611
Phoenix, AZ 85069
Make your checks payable to Lake Havasu Legal Fund.
Thanks for your support
Great Idea, my only question have you all ready seeked legal counsel and what did they say the retainer was going to be in order to start the legal proceedings.
Has the Legal council experience in state and land matters? I think it would be a nice idea to inform us off line of the expected expenses. I know you do not want to tip your hat to the lurkers on the site.
You can count me in also.

[Huckleberry]

$500 coming from the Sbark1's.....$250 for each of Mrs. Sbark's......Huck you know the rest.... :D :D
A very worthy donation from two very prominant "points of interest!" I'd like to shake the donor's hands, er well, never mind. :wink:

[Huckleberry]

So how would we go about getting this fund and the reason the fund exists into publication in all the boating mags? If that could happen we would probably get so much money donated we could buy the marina!
Send a PM to the ***boat Administrator. That way you know for sure it will get read.

[Huckleberry]

I know we are trying to be careful about what we post here, but come on folks,
DO NOT SIT BACK ON YOUR HAUNCHES ON THIS ONE!!!
It is time to rise to the occasion and take action to protect your rights as a boater! We are being discrimminated against for no good reason. I didn't even get a change to make it to the ramp for Db testing as I was shot down for being too long. How many times in a man's life is he discrimminated against for being TOO LONG?!?!??? It just isn't right.
But seriously, Please send a donation to the fund to help out our legal fight. If you are a boat manufacturer or boating accessory supplier/manufacturer, this is your opportunity to get involved anonymously without repercussions from the LHM. Any size doantion will help and is greatly appreciated.

[Essex502]

A very worthy donation from two very prominant "points of interest!" I'd like to shake the donor's hands, er well, never mind. :wink:
Sounds like an interesting errrr story here!
Thanks to all who donate...it will be well spent defending our rights to launch at a public launch ramp under the contract signed by the State of Arizona and the Lake Havasu Marina. That's all we ask of the Marina - live up to the contract.

[HAULASSHENRY]

its amazing i cant believe you people are still generating post from this punk ass topic ill tell you all what ill go on over there to the launch ramp. I will get a signed contract with them to allow what ever it is that you folks want and ill get it done asap if you give me the money in this fund (maybee big time realtor dan can cough up some of that money he over charges his customers with a few grand) ill come out smellin like a rose free money those people at the ramp only pick on assholes. and im not saying you folks are but you dont own lake havaus cause you have a boat and some of you guys think you do like realtor dan. be on the look out dans boat will be on sale cheap soon the maket is falling and he will need to unload that boat quick like he rams it home with his customers. ill give ya 5 grand for that boat dan!

[HAULASSHENRY]

ok ok ill admit im an attorney for a ramp and im not necessarly saying that ramp thats in question but i think your all barking up the wrong tree. and your definetely approcahing this the wrong way legaleeze will only back them up into a corner and they will fight and i can assure you they have unlimited legal access. They will run you folks out of money in 2 moths especially if they elevate it to federal so go somewhere else and tell the ramp to hit THE road they will beg you guys to come back very shortly. GUARANTEED

[C-2]

ok ok ill admit im an attorney for a ramp and im not necessarly saying that ramp thats in question but i think your all barking up the wrong tree. and your definetely approcahing this the wrong way legaleeze will only back them up into a corner and they will fight and i can assure you they have unlimited legal access. They will run you folks out of money in 2 moths especially if they elevate it to federal so go somewhere else and tell the ramp to hit THE road they will beg you guys to come back very shortly. GUARANTEED
:sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping: :sleeping:

[havasuhank]

Are you really expecting a response, let alone results from an attorney regarding this issue? Wake up and smell the exhaust fumes. You are fighting a loosing battle. The marina will drag this out and drain the legal fund dry. Other launch ramps in the area do not have noise or size restrictions. Why continue to drive 300 miles to take a chance on whether or not you can even launch. This is not a principle issue, it's a waste of time issue. If you are stupid enough to send some of your hard earned money to a legal fund that someone else is in control of, call me at 1-800-I'm-a-dumb-shit and donate it to me.

[C-2]

His post is so *@&#%^ stupid, it's kinda hard not to entertain the fool.
If you keep sidetracking these threads with personal attacks, we'll get your tail bounced off of HB. GUARANTEED.

[LakeRacer]

ok ok ill admit im an attorney for a ramp and im not necessarly saying that ramp thats in question but i think your all barking up the wrong tree. and your definetely approcahing this the wrong way legaleeze will only back them up into a corner and they will fight and i can assure you they have unlimited legal access. They will run you folks out of money in 2 moths especially if they elevate it to federal so go somewhere else and tell the ramp to hit THE road they will beg you guys to come back very shortly. GUARANTEED
What are you afraid of???

[LakeRacer]

Are you really expecting a response, let alone results from an attorney regarding this issue? Wake up and smell the exhaust fumes. You are fighting a loosing battle. The marina will drag this out and drain the legal fund dry. Other launch ramps in the area do not have noise or size restrictions. Why continue to drive 300 miles to take a chance on whether or not you can even launch. This is not a principle issue, it's a waste of time issue. If you are stupid enough to send some of your hard earned money to a legal fund that someone else is in control of, call me at 1-800-I'm-a-dumb-shit and donate it to me.
What are you afraid of???

[LakeRacer]

... If you are stupid enough to send some of your hard earned money to a legal fund that someone else is in control of, call me at 1-800-I'm-a-dumb-shit and donate it to me.
AHHH. Resorting to PERSONAL ATTACKS.
Amazing...we take it up to another level and they come out of the woodwork once again.

[Huckleberry]

ill tell you all what ill go on over there to the launch ramp. I will get a signed contract with them to allow what ever it is that you folks want and ill get it done asap if you give me the money in this fund
Just beautiful. This way they can also igone this contract too!!! They have such a great track record of following contracts they ahve signed. Crawl back into your dark little cave and go away.

[bigkatboat]

"Havasuhank" please let me add my address to your list. I would be happy to accept 'donations' to the legal fund! I promise to use the money for only good things; like "booze and chicks"! The state land lease created a "private business" on state land. The old saying " no shirt, no shoes, no service" is right in line with the marina's rules about 'launch and noise'. I have a pontoon in the marina, I never take any of my boats that make noise there, because I would be kicked out! You (many) can say that I am 'in bed' with Jeff or not, it's still a PRIVATE BUSINESS, on state land. The state has 'published' a letter stating their position, why are you waisting your money and time? Go build an other marina, a "HOT BOAT" marina, and get Larry Flint to help out! With his money no one could afford to stop you. And with his money you could 'buy' the entire "city council". You would have no problems. "Fight the good fight" stop the DRUNKS on the lake! "Fight the good fight", stop the speeding at night! "FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT!

[C-2]

"Havasuhank" please let me add my address to your list. I would be happy to accept 'donations' to the legal fund! I promise to use the money for only good things; like "booze and chicks"! The state land lease created a "private business" on state land. The old saying " no shirt, no shoes, no service" is right in line with the marina's rules about 'launch and noise'. I have a pontoon in the marina, I never take any of my boats that make noise there, because I would be kicked out! You (many) can say that I am 'in bed' with Jeff or not, it's still a PRIVATE BUSINESS, on state land. The state has 'published' a letter stating their position, why are you waisting your money and time? Go build an other marina, a "HOT BOAT" marina, and get Larry Flint to help out! With his money no one could afford to stop you. And with his money you could 'buy' the entire "city council". You would have no problems. "Fight the good fight" stop the DRUNKS on the lake! "Fight the good fight", stop the speeding at night! "FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT!
You're missing the point about the very existence of the marina. The state didn't lease the land so a "private business" could come in and do as they see fit. They leased the land FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC. Concession contracts with state or fed government are nothing new and they all serve the same purpose - TO ENHANCE A VISITOR'S PARK EXPERIENCE.
I posted a summary on this issue. Read it and see if our position makes more sense to you.
It’s a PUBLIC CONCESSION contract.
Its very definition is a contract with a private business to provide products and services TO PARK VISITORS. Providing enhanced services to the public (that are not otherwise offered by the state or federal government agency) is the SOLE PURPOSE OF THE CONTRACT. Obviously the government gives the private business an opportunity to make money on the contract – and of course the government agency also gets a percentage of the profits. But make no mistake about it; the primary purpose of the contract is to enhance a public park visit - NOT TO RESTRICT IT.
LHM is no different than a hotdog vendor with a concession contract at Yellowstone. The hotdog guy can’t do what he wants just because he is a private business. He can’t refuse service to certain races, or refuse to abide by the terms of the contract. And similarly, he can’t refuse service to any customer who he might think is an illegal alien. Sure, being an illegal alien is a crime – we have laws in place that say so. But it doesn’t give hotdog guy the right to card somebody and based upon his findings - refuse service or kick the person off Yellowstone property.
Another angle is parallel to emission checks in Cali. Sure, every car must meet minimum emission standards – but when we go to a state park or lake - some knucklehead employee doesn’t run up behind the car, throw a smog thingamajiggy into the tailpipe and then tell us we must leave because we don’t meet emission standards. It’s pretty much the same thing at the marina. Fortunately in Cali the state recognizes there must be a set standard and place for testing.
The bottom line is the concession contract was awarded with numerous (and I mean numerous) provisions in it to provide public access to the lake, via the land where LHM sits. Had these provisions not been agreed to by LHM – then the contract would have been awarded to somebody else.
Fast forward 35 years and LHM has obviously lost sight of the fact they are under a strict and very specific contract, with numerous default provisions in it for failing to perform. If the state crawls up the marina’s *ss – they are going to have problems.

[Ion]

What are you afraid of???
How 'bout proper grammar and spelling for starters! ;)

[Havasu Hangin']

"Fight the good fight" stop the DRUNKS on the lake! "Fight the good fight", stop the speeding at night! "FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT!
I don't seem to remember the Marina stopping drinking and boating or speeding at night? In fact, even if they tried, I don't think they could legally do it, since it is up to law enforcement (I don't see them making citizen arrests).
Personally, the only thing the Marina has done to me is deny my legal boat to launch (just by looking at it- never made it to the water). To me...that's not a "good fight"...that's discrimination.
Private businesses get sued (and lose) all the time for discrimination. The fact that the Marina has a contract with the state which stipulates not to limit access to the lake, is just another nail in the coffin.

[Essex502]

If you folks that disagree with our position would like to donate money to the Marina to fight our cause go ahead and do so...but please be polite and stay off of our threads. We aren't bothering you in the least and you are only displaying the arrogance and selfishness that we are fighting. Your transparent rationale for coming on this board and posting makes us believe you haven't anything better to do than try and disrupt us.
Get it through your heads...we will not be deterred in the least. We will fight this discrimination on our public lands. We are Arizona taxpayers and property owners and demand the rights afforded us in the concessionaire contract. Any less is not enough.
No go away and play with yourselves elsewhere.

[Havasu Cig]

I will be sending a check this week.

[skater40]

My check is also going out tommorrow. :mix:

[Havasu_Dreamin]

How about it ***boat...forward the thread to the editor? How about mentioning it in the next issue? Maybe as an insert instead of those obnoxious renewal and subscription cards? :D
I PM'd Kevin Spaise a few weeks ago about the marina issue. Have not gotten any response.

[That Guy]

ok ok ill admit im an attorney for a ramp and im not necessarly saying that ramp thats in question but i think your all barking up the wrong tree. and your definetely approcahing this the wrong way legaleeze will only back them up into a corner and they will fight and i can assure you they have unlimited legal access. They will run you folks out of money in 2 moths especially if they elevate it to federal so go somewhere else and tell the ramp to hit THE road they will beg you guys to come back very shortly. GUARANTEED
Jesus Mother F@@@@ing Christ....What (and I seriously want to know) law school did you go to....? You are making an absolute fool of yourself. You went to law school, just like I can fly....You can't get it through your small and very under-used brain that we are not going to go away. The marina does not have "unlimited" legal access and even if they do, they are wrong and we aren't going away. Now please stop leaving these meaningless posts and go find something to occupy your time......

[bigkatboat]

Essex 502, you seem to be quick to dismiss the opinions of others, but you said in a number of previous posts that, "I will still launch at the Marina", and "I will not give them any more of my money than launch fees" (no gas). Are you still giving them your launch fees??? Is it such a 'hardship' for you to launch anywhere else? C2! The Marina IS A PRIVATE BUSINESS! YOU KNOW??? LIKE, "No shirt, no shoes, no service!" With all of the letters you have sent to the state, are you telling me (and all of us) that the Marina has a "hold/ power" over the state? (your 'good old boys BS) THE NOISE LAWS ARE COMING! Just because the Marina is first to do something, and it has a less than scientific method of testing noise, does not mean that this issue will go away by suing the Marina. Why not put your 'legal fund' to better use? Use it to help find better methods of noise reduction, mufflers should not cost thousands of dollars! You could help yourselves to more power and less noise, (and less tickets). Don't worry about me, I still must pay for my pontoon boat slip every month. I can stand on the Marina's side, or your side, or my own position, I still have to pay for my slip every month. I would like to see things back the way they were before all of you "self proclaimed California BIG SPENDERS" came here and told us it IS TOO LOUD! You all have claimed that the majority of money spent here is by people from California! The majority has spoken, and the message is KEEP THE NOISE DOWN! I guess I'll never get to relive my youth, and have another Blown Gas Flatbottom (with zoomies) to play with! I think I'll sue someone! Light hearted words, but it's no joke!

[That Guy]

Big Kat...I'm afraid you're missing the point that we are trying to make. None of us wants to launch a boat that is excessively loud or for that matter illegal. What we have a problem with is the marina (who legally is a concessionaire on state land) arbitrarily and illegally determining that boats are over the limit and can't launch. The very essence of their contract is to provide launch and marina services to the boating public. Instead, they have resorted to singling out certain performance boat owners and have not allowed them to launch. I respect your opinion but the facts are the facts....thanks.

[bigkatboat]

PS, on the Kevin Spaise letter; didn't Hot Boat just have some 'tests' on Havasu? Didn't they launch all of their boats at the Nautical Inn ramp? I wonder if THEY TRIED TO LAUNCH AT THE MARINA? Were they turned away, or did they just not show up? If Kevin is 'up to speed' on what is going on, why is he not here to help you? He is probably looking for an other 'easy money' story, and is staying away from the 'tuff stuff' at the Marina. He did an article on the Marina a few months ago, where is his promised 'follow-up'? Is he too busy going to boat shows to 'dig into' the real stories? I would be very suprised to find out that he has even thought about your 'fight'. Living in Hawaii, does not lend itself to getting involved with the "masses" on the river. Some of the boats in those tests had problems, will HB actually print those shortcommings? Or will they 'bow' to advertizing money, and give a 'clean bill of health' to the "big money advertizers" that had boat problems?

[C-2]

Essex 502, you seem to be quick to dismiss the opinions of others, but you said in a number of previous posts that, "I will still launch at the Marina", and "I will not give them any more of my money than launch fees" (no gas). Are you still giving them your launch fees??? Is it such a 'hardship' for you to launch anywhere else? C2! The Marina IS A PRIVATE BUSINESS! YOU KNOW??? LIKE, "No shirt, no shoes, no service!" With all of the letters you have sent to the state, are you telling me (and all of us) that the Marina has a "hold/ power" over the state? (your 'good old boys BS) THE NOISE LAWS ARE COMING! Just because the Marina is first to do something, and it has a less than scientific method of testing noise, does not mean that this issue will go away by suing the Marina. Why not put your 'legal fund' to better use? Use it to help find better methods of noise reduction, mufflers should not cost thousands of dollars! You could help yourselves to more power and less noise, (and less tickets). Don't worry about me, I still must pay for my pontoon boat slip every month. I can stand on the Marina's side, or your side, or my own position, I still have to pay for my slip every month. I would like to see things back the way they were before all of you "self proclaimed California BIG SPENDERS" came here and told us it IS TOO LOUD! You all have claimed that the majority of money spent here is by people from California! The majority has spoken, and the message is KEEP THE NOISE DOWN! I guess I'll never get to relive my youth, and have another Blown Gas Flatbottom (with zoomies) to play with! I think I'll sue someone! Light hearted words, but it's no joke!
BigKat
Can a PRIVATE BUSINESS discriminate against minorities? How about the handicapped? Can they establish their own wage scales, regardless of law? Under your theory they can.
Notwithstanding the fact it's state owned land, again, you need to look at the purpose and intent of government concession contracts on public park areas.

[C-2]

PS, on the Kevin Spaise letter; didn't Hot Boat just have some 'tests' on Havasu? Didn't they launch all of their boats at the Nautical Inn ramp? I wonder if THEY TRIED TO LAUNCH AT THE MARINA? Were they turned away, or did they just not show up? If Kevin is 'up to speed' on what is going on, why is he not here to help you? He is probably looking for an other 'easy money' story, and is staying away from the 'tuff stuff' at the Marina. He did an article on the Marina a few months ago, where is his promised 'follow-up'? Is he too busy going to boat shows to 'dig into' the real stories? I would be very suprised to find out that he has even thought about your 'fight'. Living in Hawaii, does not lend itself to getting involved with the "masses" on the river. Some of the boats in those tests had problems, will HB actually print those shortcommings? Or will they 'bow' to advertizing money, and give a 'clean bill of health' to the "big money advertizers" that had boat problems?
He seems to pick and choose his fights. I too am looking forward to his investigation results.

[bigkatboat]

Sir, you are missing my point! The Marina is a private business! It can deny lake access (launch) for many reasons. Your own responces to letters to the state, show that "the marina cannot deny access without good reason". The reason is TOO MUCH NOISE!!! If I go to a restaurant and they require my wearing a neck tie, do I have the right to stay without one, or should I leave and go somewhere else? I love big hamburgers, should I require every restaurant that I go into to provide me with the food that I desire? No matter what they are serving? Who the f%$k do you think you are? If I owned the Marina, your children would not be allowed, why? I don't like children, and it's MY MARINA! I rent the land from the state, but I control it, and all children ARE OUT! (all I have to do is state examples of children causing problems) This is so stupid, why go there if you MIGHT have a problem? Why not go to a place where your money and your presence is wanted? I am not going to collect money to fight with any private business that does not want my money! Get another ramp to work WITH YOU! A place that will cater to your needs, and work with you! There must be somewhere on this lake that you guys can 'work things out'! Why the fight?

[bigkatboat]

"C2" are you a F%$#ING IDIOT or what? You are taking 'launch rights' and turning this into "slave labor" thing. My 'theory' was about launching loud boats and operation of a private business! You are out of your F%$#ing mind to think that I was talking about breaking any of the laws that govern this state! Don't try to BS us with your 'wages and discrimination' BS! The point is 'private business on state lands' and LOUD BOATS! "C2" that kind of propaganda BS by trying to change topics and tactics was a very good tool used by Hitler! Stay with the facts, and try to keep the truth in mind! Look at it this way! If you took fireworks to a state park or a federal park, you would be arrested! Not spanked and sent home, ARRESTED! All of the parks in the western US are under 'fire alert' and you would be arrested for HAVING FIREWORKS! Our national anthem has "the rocket's red glare' in it's words, but if they 'glare' in a "controled park", you go to jail! (they are taking away MY freedom) I am very openminded, and I do enjoy the sound of 'nice motors'. The problem is that the Marina, does not want that 'motor' sound louder than their measurement for that given day. Don't go there on 'that day', because they will turn you away, and it is their right to do so. "without good cause" is what the state said in their letter, and that's how it is.

[Kachina26]

If I go to a restaurant and they require my wearing a neck tie, do I have the right to stay without one, or should I leave and go somewhere else?
It is disheartening how some people often resort to vulgarity to bolster a weak argument. But I digress. If you allowed some people without a neck tie (white people)into your restaurant, and denied others without a neck tie (those who are not white), you would be guilty of discrimination similar to that practiced by the marina. Who allows large production type boats to launch, while not allowing large "hot boats" the same access based on length. Nevermind the fact that they usually weigh less. I usually don't jump into arguments like this, but your weak arguments and poor analogies demand a response.
More importantly, would it be possible to limit responses to this thread to just updates on the situation at the marina. So that we don't have to wade through endless diatribes by the likes of bigkatboat to find out the current standing of things?

[bigkatboat]

I guess I'll be quiet. I know when not to come around, unlike you "Marina haters". Kachina 26, my 'diatribes are not weak', and your "discrimination" charges are so way off base. You are ridiculous! If you were on these threads in resent weeks, you would know that some of the 'others' here were at the Marina trying to "start something", and get it on video tape just 2 weekends ago! (after the 'first' photo shoot problem) No problems occured and no video tape was made. Why look for trouble? Also a local 'big boat' owner had to bring in cranes to launch his boat! It was 28' but too heavy for the ramp! The Marina would not let him put that heavy boat on it's ramp! So your size discrimination story is BS! The boat does have under water exhaust, and so it did not get 'noise tested'. I went down and took pix of the 'launch'. If you guys have a 'personal problem' with people at the Marina, say so, but don't try to hide the facts under the BS of a "discrimination" against certain boats, or certain people. If you follow their rules, they will take your money.

[Havasu Hangin']

Also a local 'big boat' owner had to bring in cranes to launch his boat! It was 28' but too heavy for the ramp! The Marina would not let him put that heavy boat on it's ramp! So your size discrimination story is BS!
Big, heavy boats have been launching there for years. In fact, I have launched there before- no problem.
So if the lake level is the same, what has changed? Nothing. The reason I was given is that "the manager is there". To me, they are admitting it's not a safety issue- just a manager issue.

[1stepcloser]

I have launched there before- no problem.
Say it isnt so... :sqeyes:

[Kachina26]

I guess I'll be quiet. I know when not to come around, unlike you "Marina haters". Kachina 26, my 'diatribes are not weak', and your "discrimination" charges are so way off base. You are ridiculous! If you were on these threads in resent weeks, you would know that some of the 'others' here were at the Marina trying to "start something", and get it on video tape just 2 weekends ago! (after the 'first' photo shoot problem) No problems occured and no video tape was made. Why look for trouble? Also a local 'big boat' owner had to bring in cranes to launch his boat! It was 28' but too heavy for the ramp! The Marina would not let him put that heavy boat on it's ramp! So your size discrimination story is BS! The boat does have under water exhaust, and so it did not get 'noise tested'. I went down and took pix of the 'launch'. If you guys have a 'personal problem' with people at the Marina, say so, but don't try to hide the facts under the BS of a "discrimination" against certain boats, or certain people. If you follow their rules, they will take your money.
Where to start.................? So let's say I call your "restaurant" and ask to make a reservation. You tell me that you don't take reservations, but if I show up early there should be no problem getting seated. So, I show up very early in the evening with my non-white face. Now I am told that the restaurant is full and there will be no more seats for many months. Much like when I called down to the marina early this year, around April, before I was aware of these problems. I tried to reserve a slip and was told that they did not take reservations for temporary slips, but if I got down there early I stood a good chance of getting one. So, I loaded up the truck very early friday morning (3am) and headed down to Havasu. Taking into account the time difference, I got to the marina at 8am. I imagine this is close to opening time, I was told that not only was there a slip for me, but due to the amount of snowbirds still in town it would be unlikely that I would be able to get a slip there for many months. I thought most snowbirds went home around February or March? Anyway, the day before, I was told that a slip would be a possiblilty. Now when I show up with something other than a production boat it is an absolute impossibility. OK, I buy that. Whatever.
:rolleyes:

[Havasu_Dreamin]

HAH and BKB, thank you for your insight and astute observations. As is customary in the US, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. The point is that a boat that is legal per both the law in AZ and CA was denied launching privliges and was told not to ever come back. That is the problem with the marina. This is not a personal issue with any person at the marina as every person, except for the "manager" person in the pictures that have been posted, I have ever dealt with has been very friendly.

[C-2]

"C2" are you a F%$#ING IDIOT or what? You are taking 'launch rights' and turning this into "slave labor" thing. My 'theory' was about launching loud boats and operation of a private business! You are out of your F%$#ing mind to think that I was talking about breaking any of the laws that govern this state! Don't try to BS us with your 'wages and discrimination' BS! The point is 'private business on state lands' and LOUD BOATS! "C2" that kind of propaganda BS by trying to change topics and tactics was a very good tool used by Hitler! Stay with the facts, and try to keep the truth in mind! Look at it this way! If you took fireworks to a state park or a federal park, you would be arrested! Not spanked and sent home, ARRESTED! All of the parks in the western US are under 'fire alert' and you would be arrested for HAVING FIREWORKS! Our national anthem has "the rocket's red glare' in it's words, but if they 'glare' in a "controled park", you go to jail! (they are taking away MY freedom) I am very openminded, and I do enjoy the sound of 'nice motors'. The problem is that the Marina, does not want that 'motor' sound louder than their measurement for that given day. Don't go there on 'that day', because they will turn you away, and it is their right to do so. "without good cause" is what the state said in their letter, and that's how it is.
Bigkat
My point is although they are a private business, they are still bound by laws. In this case, it's contract law. And obviously you don't agree and I'm not asking you too. LHM also doesn't think so, which is why were are going down this road.
The letter you've viewed is not a "published" opinion, or even an official staff opinion. It says the isues being raised about noise enforcement are LE concerns, specifically: "local law enforcement personnel would be best able to address what is excessive". I agree, and LHM is not a LE agency. The letter did not address the size issue, other than make a reference to what can be found on the LHM website.
I see and appreciate your points about a private business; I too don't like to see the governments hands in everything. I understand you don't agree with our position, and again am not asking you too.
I disagree with your view, you disagree with mine. No matter how much you yell or call names - my opinion isn't going to change. I look forward to your response - sands the profanity and name calling. ;)

[robt]

[QUOTE=bigkatboat]If you were on these threads in resent weeks, you would know that some of the 'others' here were at the Marina trying to "start something", and get it on video tape just 2 weekends ago! (after the 'first' photo shoot problem) No problems occured and no video tape was made. Why look for trouble? Also a local 'big boat' owner had to bring in cranes to launch his boat! It was 28' but too heavy for the ramp! The Marina would not let him put that heavy boat on it's ramp! So your size discrimination story is BS! The boat does have under water exhaust, and so it did not get 'noise tested'. I went down and took pix of the 'launch'. If you guys have a 'personal problem' with people at the Marina, say so, but don't try to hide the facts under the BS of a "discrimination" against certain boats, or certain people. If you follow their rules, they will take your money.[/QUOTE
you are wrong there bigkat there was video taken of 2 boats launching and not getting tested and going to park in slips there is also video of the ramp ranger turning away a boat that had under water exhaust due to it being to long well guess what it was under your limit and i have a video of you turning it away and us putting a tape on it to show the true length
so the way i see it is
1) if you have a slip you get a free ride
2)they have no clue how to work a db meter
also to the marina employee that reffered to me as a smart ass little kid thank you as you were on tape (and this goes to show your the rude one)
and the boat you refused to launch was tested less than two hours before you refused us launching rights
also to the people that helped me out this week i extend a big thank you when all this is said and done i will be sending something your way
Rob
art and hd i will be in touch with you

[LakeRacer]

[QUOTE=bigkatboat]If you were on these threads in resent weeks, you would know that some of the 'others' here were at the Marina trying to "start something", and get it on video tape just 2 weekends ago! (after the 'first' photo shoot problem) No problems occured and no video tape was made. Why look for trouble? Also a local 'big boat' owner had to bring in cranes to launch his boat! It was 28' but too heavy for the ramp! The Marina would not let him put that heavy boat on it's ramp! So your size discrimination story is BS! The boat does have under water exhaust, and so it did not get 'noise tested'. I went down and took pix of the 'launch'. If you guys have a 'personal problem' with people at the Marina, say so, but don't try to hide the facts under the BS of a "discrimination" against certain boats, or certain people. If you follow their rules, they will take your money.[/QUOTE
you are wrong there bigkat there was video taken of 2 boats launching and not getting tested and going to park in slips there is also video of the ramp ranger turning away a boat that had under water exhaust due to it being to long well guess what it was under your limit and i have a video of you turning it away and us putting a tape on it to show the true length
so the way i see it is
1) if you have a slip you get a free ride
2)they have no clue how to work a db meter
also to the marina employee that reffered to me as a smart ass little kid thank you as you were on tape (and this goes to show your the rude one)
and the boat you refused to launch was tested less than two hours before you refused us launching rights
also to the people that helped me out this week i extend a big thank you when all this is said and done i will be sending something your way
Rob
art and hd i will be in touch with you
Thanks for all of your help. We do need to talk.

[Havasu bound]

Just to say something about the marina. We were there this past weekend and they are still measuring boats at 12-15ft. The ranger even stepped the measurement off. And yes there were many boats that got away without being checked. Couple of them were diffently not legal by any law.
Havasu Bound

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Just to say something about the marina. We were there this past weekend and they are still measuring boats at 12-15ft. The ranger even stepped the measurement off. And yes there were many boats that got away without being checked. Couple of them were diffently not legal by any law.
Havasu Bound
HB, thanks for the update. Nice consistency in the enforcement of their BS rule!

[Essex502]

Essex 502, you seem to be quick to dismiss the opinions of others, but you said in a number of previous posts that, "I will still launch at the Marina", and "I will not give them any more of my money than launch fees" (no gas). Are you still giving them your launch fees??? Is it such a 'hardship' for you to launch anywhere else? C2! The Marina IS A PRIVATE BUSINESS! YOU KNOW??? LIKE, "No shirt, no shoes, no service!" With all of the letters you have sent to the state, are you telling me (and all of us) that the Marina has a "hold/ power" over the state? (your 'good old boys BS) THE NOISE LAWS ARE COMING! Just because the Marina is first to do something, and it has a less than scientific method of testing noise, does not mean that this issue will go away by suing the Marina. Why not put your 'legal fund' to better use? Use it to help find better methods of noise reduction, mufflers should not cost thousands of dollars! You could help yourselves to more power and less noise, (and less tickets). Don't worry about me, I still must pay for my pontoon boat slip every month. I can stand on the Marina's side, or your side, or my own position, I still have to pay for my slip every month. I would like to see things back the way they were before all of you "self proclaimed California BIG SPENDERS" came here and told us it IS TOO LOUD! You all have claimed that the majority of money spent here is by people from California! The majority has spoken, and the message is KEEP THE NOISE DOWN! I guess I'll never get to relive my youth, and have another Blown Gas Flatbottom (with zoomies) to play with! I think I'll sue someone! Light hearted words, but it's no joke!
BigKatBoat
I am NOT dismissing other's ideas but telling that particular, hmmm.., person that this thread isn't for a discussion of the merits but a call to fund the legal fund. There are several other more appropriate thread where that, hmmm...person, can debate the issues all they please.
Learn from my comments..."No shirt, No shoes, No service" works for private businesses on private property. The Lake Havasu Marina is NOT on private property. They are located on PUBLIC LAND...MY LAND and YOUR LAND and EVERYONE ELSE'S LAND that pays taxes into the Arizona coffers. They MUST abide by the contract that THEY, the Marina Corp., signed.

[Essex502]

Sir, you are missing my point! The Marina is a private business! It can deny lake access (launch) for many reasons. Your own responces to letters to the state, show that "the marina cannot deny access without good reason". The reason is TOO MUCH NOISE!!! If I go to a restaurant and they require my wearing a neck tie, do I have the right to stay without one, or should I leave and go somewhere else? I love big hamburgers, should I require every restaurant that I go into to provide me with the food that I desire? No matter what they are serving? Who the f%$k do you think you are? If I owned the Marina, your children would not be allowed, why? I don't like children, and it's MY MARINA! I rent the land from the state, but I control it, and all children ARE OUT! (all I have to do is state examples of children causing problems) This is so stupid, why go there if you MIGHT have a problem? Why not go to a place where your money and your presence is wanted? I am not going to collect money to fight with any private business that does not want my money! Get another ramp to work WITH YOU! A place that will cater to your needs, and work with you! There must be somewhere on this lake that you guys can 'work things out'! Why the fight?
Under your theory, if you are an African American and you go into a restaurant they can deny service to you, is that what you're saying?
Get it through your head...All business and individuals MUST perform to the contract they sign. And we have a copy of the contract that the Marina SIGNED stating they would provide access to all of the boating public...what don't you understand?

[Essex502]

[QUOTE=bigkatboat]If you were on these threads in resent weeks, you would know that some of the 'others' here were at the Marina trying to "start something", and get it on video tape just 2 weekends ago! (after the 'first' photo shoot problem) No problems occured and no video tape was made. Why look for trouble? Also a local 'big boat' owner had to bring in cranes to launch his boat! It was 28' but too heavy for the ramp! The Marina would not let him put that heavy boat on it's ramp! So your size discrimination story is BS! The boat does have under water exhaust, and so it did not get 'noise tested'. I went down and took pix of the 'launch'. If you guys have a 'personal problem' with people at the Marina, say so, but don't try to hide the facts under the BS of a "discrimination" against certain boats, or certain people. If you follow their rules, they will take your money.[/QUOTE
you are wrong there bigkat there was video taken of 2 boats launching and not getting tested and going to park in slips there is also video of the ramp ranger turning away a boat that had under water exhaust due to it being to long well guess what it was under your limit and i have a video of you turning it away and us putting a tape on it to show the true length
so the way i see it is
1) if you have a slip you get a free ride
2)they have no clue how to work a db meter
also to the marina employee that reffered to me as a smart ass little kid thank you as you were on tape (and this goes to show your the rude one)
and the boat you refused to launch was tested less than two hours before you refused us launching rights
also to the people that helped me out this week i extend a big thank you when all this is said and done i will be sending something your way
Rob
art and hd i will be in touch with you
Good work Rob! I appreciate your help with this issue.

[LakeRacer]

Thanks
Charley, Essex502 and Huckleberry. It will be put to good use. I'm sure more is coming.

[Huckleberry]

Thanks
Charley, Essex502 and Huckleberry. It will be put to good use. I'm sure more is coming.
No problem amigo! Come on folks, send in your dinero to help out!!!

[That Guy]

Check will go out tomorrow....thanks Art

[robt]

Check will go out tomorrow....thanks Art
not to H.J the thread but:
Art I'm not going to send you a check do to the fact i dropped almost 2 grand out there this week (and had a blast doin it) but i bet this video i got is worth more than any check that you get as soon as i edit out the chicks as i got a little sidetracked with all the girls out there i will get you a copy i am also going to give jeff a call and see what his comment is as last time i talked to him he told me that there is nothing like that going on and if it is show him proof and he will take care of it so I have the proof now lets see the problems get fixed
Rob

[That Guy]

Rob...thanks for your help :) :skull: :)

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Thanks for the hard work Rob!

[91nordic29]

bigkatboat, HAH, et al...
to quote from the letter that the state sent to the marina:
"local law enforecement personnel would be best able to address what is excessive".
:boxed:

[Havasu4me]

Speaking of quotes from the State, to the Marina...
"The Arizona State Land Department appreciates your (the Marina's) efforts to address health and safety issues with regard to the Marina.....Thank you for your assistance in addressing this issue."
Has anyone figured out this portion of the states response?
It almost seems like the State wants no part in our discrimination fight.
How can we prove that the noise is really not an issue....what part can I do to help?? Let me know.
Steve

[Huckleberry]

not to H.J the thread but:
Art I'm not going to send you a check do to the fact i dropped almost 2 grand out there this week (and had a blast doin it) but i bet this video i got is worth more than any check that you get as soon as i edit out the chicks as i got a little sidetracked with all the girls out there i will get you a copy i am also going to give jeff a call and see what his comment is as last time i talked to him he told me that there is nothing like that going on and if it is show him proof and he will take care of it so I have the proof now lets see the problems get fixed
Rob
If a picture paints a thousand words, I'll bet a good video will illicit a million "AW F^@k's" from Jeff.

[robt]

If a picture paints a thousand words, I'll bet a good video will illicit a million "AW F^@k's" from Jeff.
kinda what i was thinking
Rob

[91nordic29]

Speaking of quotes from the State, to the Marina...
"The Arizona State Land Department appreciates your (the Marina's) efforts to address health and safety issues with regard to the Marina.....Thank you for your assistance in addressing this issue."
Has anyone figured out this portion of the states response?
It almost seems like the State wants no part in our discrimination fight.
How can we prove that the noise is really not an issue....what part can I do to help?? Let me know.
Steve
the letter from tyhe marina to the state claimed that the noise was a danger to it's employees hearing. however, they dont wear any protection :hammerhea so they dont seem to be all that concerned.

[That Guy]

the letter from tyhe marina to the state claimed that the noise was a danger to it's employees hearing. however, they dont wear any protection :hammerhea so they dont seem to be all that concerned.
Hey 91Nordic...your argument makes no sense because you are using something the marina lacks....common sense :crossx: :crossx: :)

[91nordic29]

Hey 91Nordic...your argument makes no sense because you are using something the marina lacks....common sense :crossx: :crossx: :)
i suppose you are correct :cool:

[KACHINA KEN]

I just got home to see we have two new jackoffs on our board, lovely. To the nay sayers I say this, I just beat the unbeatable London Bridge Resort because I didnt back down, I won and as an added bonus we are now friends. As for running out of money in 2 months??? don't think so pal. A conservative estimate of active members worth on this board is in the tens of millions, we have plenty of money here. And a few of us are crazy enough to spend it on "lost" causes, they call folks that do that "principled". Oh yeah btw new guys BITE ME.

[Essex502]

I think the negative folks here aren't really aware that we aren't punks but adult professionals and business people. Many of us own property in Arizona as well as California and other states. We spend significant (some say prodigious amounts of money on our sport/hobby. We take interference in our pursuits of these in a discriminatory manner as an offense to our beings. We are Americans and we will fight (legally) for our rights.
What we ask for is only one simple thing....Lake Havasu Marina - Abide by your contract. That's all. If those of you out there that don't agree with our position and our rights...feel free to do nothing. Those of you who agree and want to support our battle, Please write or donate whatever you can as we will all win if our battle is successful.

[That Guy]

I just got home to see we have two new jackoffs on our board, lovely. To the nay sayers I say this, I just beat the unbeatable London Bridge Resort because I didnt back down, I won and as an added bonus we are now friends. As for running out of money in 2 months??? don't think so pal. A conservative estimate of active members worth on this board is in the tens of millions, we have plenty of money here. And a few of us are crazy enough to spend it on "lost" causes, they call folks that do that "principled". Oh yeah btw new guys BITE ME.
Ken is right...It cracks me up that the marina thinks we are a bunch of drunken, obnoxious jackoffs that don't know what we are doing. Many of us are business owners, work at Fortune 500 companies, have multiple properties and we didn't get these by quitting and not being willing to right a wrong. We will see this through. Please join us and send a few bucks to the fund to make this right. Thank you....now please drive thru..... :D :D

[That Guy]

I think the negative folks here aren't really aware that we aren't punks but adult professionals and business people. Many of us own property in Arizona as well as California and other states. We spend significant (some say prodigious amounts of money on our sport/hobby. We take interference in our pursuits of these in a discriminatory manner as an offense to our beings. We are Americans and we will fight (legally) for our rights.
What we ask for is only one simple thing....Lake Havasu Marina - Abide by your contract. That's all. If those of you out there that don't agree with our position and our rights...feel free to do nothing. Those of you who agree and want to support our battle, Please write or donate whatever you can as we will all win if our battle is successful.
Essex...eloquent as always. :)

[Huckleberry]

A conservative estimate of active members worth on this board is in the tens of millions, we have plenty of money here. And a few of us are crazy enough to spend it on "lost" causes, they call folks that do that "principled".
This is very true, IF, and it is a huge IF folks break out the checkbook and actually send in a donation to get the ball rolling. So far there has been a lot of talk, but little action on the part of this board's members. Talk is cheap guys and gals. Action costs money. Please bust loose with as much as you can afford or see fit to donate to the cause. Again, I will throw out the challenge to the many different manufacturers represented on this board to step up to the plate and help out. We can and will prevail, but it will not be free.
In case you have forgotten where to send the checks, here's the info again. Thanks again for your support folks.
Lake Havasu Legal Fund
P.O. Box 39611
Phoenix, AZ 85069
Make your checks payable to Lake Havasu Legal Fund.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Edit: I wanted to edit this to more reflect what it is that I wanted to say.
Those of us that are pushing this issue so hard are not doing it for our own gain. We are doing it for all of the boating public that enjoys going to Lake Havasu as much as we do. We are doing it to preserve our rights as taxpayers in AZ to use a facility that is contractually oligated to provide a launch ramp to the public. This is not a personal vendetta agaionst the marina nor any of it's employees. Other than what happened on 9-25-04 I personally have never had any problem with the Lake Havasu Marina or it's employees. We even got to know one fo the gentlemn that works the front gate. This is a fight for what is right, it's a fight for equal treatment under the law.
If we were idiot boaters that cared only about getting smashed and driving fast on the lake and breaking other laws, we really would not care about this. But we are not, as E502 and others have said, we are professionals and business owners that are standing up for what we believe in and standing up for those that decide that they can't. The fact of the matter is that perfectly legal boats, as per the State law, are being denied access to a public launch ramp. If the boats were truly illegal, fine, we would have no complaints, but that is not the case here. We're doing this as a matter of principle, to right what is wrong. Abide by the contract and treat us all equally under the law not some smoke and mirrors arbitrary rule.
We, performance boaters, talk about the problems we see at the river and the things that we can do or should do about it. We talk about getting organized to actively participate in the legislative process to show the government that we are not the crazed, drunk boaters that recent newspaper articles portray ALL OF US as. Well, here is a perfect cause to get behind and get us organized. Please, take the time and write a letter or donate whatever it is that you can to help us fight this. Just think, if only 100 members on this board offered up $50 that would be $5k to fight this.

[KACHINA KEN]

I only have one question before I write a check for the fund and I would like to know the name of the attorney we are retaining only so i can check him/her out and maybe offer an alternative name.

[LakeRacer]

I only have one question before I write a check for the fund and I would like to know the name of the attorney we are retaining only so i can check him/her out and maybe offer an alternative name.
Check your pm's

[That Guy]

Art, check sent to the fund today....thanks. Huck, HD, Essex, etc are right. We always talk about changing something, and here is a well organized effort that matters to all of us. It has been said before, but even if you don't use the marina, their policies will affect you. It will crowd the other ramps, make us launch at short ramps, ramps with no protection, etc. Plus, it is just plain wrong. PLEASE send in what you can because it will make a difference.

[Essex502]

It matters to me even though we haven't been turned away because of noise. It's just plain WRONG what the Marina is doing.
I am committed and Art has my check by now!

[boxscore]

I only have one question before I write a check for the fund and I would like to know the name of the attorney we are retaining only so i can check him/her out and maybe offer an alternative name.
same here...please PM me some details...thanks

[robt]

Edit: I wanted to edit this to more reflect what it is that I wanted to say.
Those of us that are pushing this issue so hard are not doing it for our own gain. We are doing it for all of the boating public that enjoys going to Lake Havasu as much as we do. . We even got to know one fo the gentlemn that works the front gate. This is a fight for what is right, it's a fight for equal treatment under the law.
. Well, here is a perfect cause to get behind and get us organized. Please, take the time and write a letter or donate whatever it is that you can to help us fight this. Just think, if only 100 members on this board offered up $50 that would be $5k to fight this.
Just to add a little to what H.D said I had never gone to L.H.M in my life but i have read alot of what is in these forums as it is a good place to get some good info (well it was before the bomount thing started) JOKE SORRY
in IL where i am from we have had the same problem from time to time as are county owned marina changes hands every other year as a part time hobby I do some reporting on things in the R.V industry (boats, campers,campgrounds) and after seeing the b.s you all were going through i laughed and went to the next topic well as time went by and more and more was said I started thinking that this could happen to all of us at any time so i started to try and help out after talking to art and doing a little reporting (it is kinda nice that i can say im a reporter as it gets alot of people to talk about the issues) I found that it is just flat wrong what is going on out there and if we all do not step up what will be next there is a lake somewhere that we all use and if you do not help now it will be your own fault when it happens to you .
just my .02
Rob
also art please pm me your contact info as i have lost it

[prosthogod]

Sent a check in yesterday. I think for everyones peace of mind a proper (simple) accounting of the fund and progress should be available. Whatever would be easiest, e-mail or web address. Just my .02. PM me if anything else is needed.

[Essex502]

Gracias, Amigo! Art (LakeRacer) will be using Quicken, I think, to track donations and generate reports....I understand we will be very transparent to the donors and very opaque to the Marina and its supports.

[LakeRacer]

Sent a check in yesterday. I think for everyones peace of mind a proper (simple) accounting of the fund and progress should be available. Whatever would be easiest, e-mail or web address. Just my .02. PM me if anything else is needed.
I have already set up an account in my Quickbooks software. For anyone that donates, I'll send them a receipt and/or a statement showing their donation. And when anyone wants to ask for an overall statement showing income and expenses I'll send that out too.
Anyone can contact me at:
Art Witzell
3143 W. Taro Lane
Phoenix, AZ 85027
602-318-5785
My name and address are all over the web/internet so sharing it with you here is no big deal.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Art, Thanks again for spearheading this effort.

[That Guy]

Art, thanks again....and for your open book policy. It goes a long way to ensure the integrity of our effort. Donations, Donations............join the club :rollside:

[Essex502]

Good job Art!

[VelocityDriver]

Can't the people that donated be made public by the marina if/when it goes to court? They (marina) inturn could publicly publish the names of the people in any forum that they see fit and would have a list of those people, and could start a "name check" upon entering the marina, your name is on the list....you can't launch. I would like to donate only if the assurance that my name and information would not be made public, i.e. via money order etc.

[Essex502]

Can't the people that donated be made public by the marina if/when it goes to court? They (marina) inturn could publicly publish the names of the people in any forum that they see fit and would have a list of those people, and could start a "name check" upon entering the marina, your name is on the list....you can't launch. I would like to donate only if the assurance that my name and information would not be made public, i.e. via money order etc.
VD - Welcome...I wouldn't worry about it too much. What right would the Marina have to see our list of donors? We are NOT a political committee. We will have a core set of users that put there name on a lawsuit if it comes to that but it's up to you whether or not you wish to have your name included on the suit. PM LakeRacer for more info. If they start banning people by name then it really is a violation of their contract.
If you like you could send a money order. That would be really anonymous. I think also a cashier's check would be anonymous too.

[LakeRacer]

Can't the people that donated be made public by the marina if/when it goes to court? They (marina) inturn could publicly publish the names of the people in any forum that they see fit and would have a list of those people, and could start a "name check" upon entering the marina, your name is on the list....you can't launch. I would like to donate only if the assurance that my name and information would not be made public, i.e. via money order etc.
Very good point and well taken. The only way a person will see anyones name is that person themself when they get a copy of a receipt. Otherwise if I print out any other statement it will be generic in form with no names.
Also, if you want any information I will only respond to pm's. Don't email me.
BTW, I guess my name is now on the list :cry: :cry: Doesn't matter anyways...my boat is too long.

[That Guy]

Welcome VD....didn't think I'd ever say that. J/K Thanks for your interest and please get involved... :D :rollside:

[Essex502]

The Lake Havasu Legal Fund for fighting the Noise and Length issues at the Marina is open for donations. Any size donation is accepted. Donor names will be kept confidential if you so desire.
Lake Havasu Legal Fund
P.O. Box 39611
Phoenix, AZ 85069
Make your checks payable to Lake Havasu Legal Fund
Thanks for you support.

[SHAKE-YO-AZZ]

The Lake Havasu Legal Fund for fighting the Noise and Length issues at the Marina is open for donations. Any size donation is accepted. Donor names will be kept confidential if you so desire.
Lake Havasu Legal Fund
P.O. Box 39611
Phoenix, AZ 85069
Make your checks payable to Lake Havasu Legal Fund
Thanks for you support.
I dont if this has been brought up, but who is the attorney and what is he or she charging for there fee.

[LakeRacer]

I dont if this has been brought up, but who is the attorney and what is he or she charging for there fee.
Check your pm's

[Essex502]

I dont if this has been brought up, but who is the attorney and what is he or she charging for there fee.
Thanks for responding and it was a pleasure meeting you last Saturday at the Boat Brokers!
Good luck with the new boat! ;)

[MissHavasuCig]

Our check is in the mail.
Keep it up guys... let's keep this ball rolling!!!
:cool:

[Huckleberry]

Our check is in the mail.
Keep it up guys... let's keep this ball rolling!!!
:cool:
Thank you very much for helping out! It will go to good use.

[That Guy]

Thanks Miss Cig....

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Our check is in the mail.
Keep it up guys... let's keep this ball rolling!!!
:cool:
Thanks to you and Mr. HC for the donation.

[Essex502]

Our check is in the mail.
Keep it up guys... let's keep this ball rolling!!!
:cool:
Thanks for helping!

[OGShocker]

We sent our check. Hope it helps!
Thank you for all the work on the ground.

[LHC30Victory]

$$$$ in the mail.
When people are apathetic about laws (and how they are enforced) only the lawless will prevail.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Thanks for the donations!

[Essex502]

Thanks for everyone's donations and keep them coming.

[That Guy]

Thanks again for everyone's help....please encourage your other boating friends to contribute.....

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Just want to keep this issue at the forefront of everyones mind.
I know quite a few of you will be going to the Parade of Lights in Havasu and if you have thru transom exhaust that exits above the waterline, you will fail the marina's illegal test even though your boat may very well be legal per the law in the State of Arizona. Is that right? Is that fair?
Also, once you are on the water, the marina has no right to even perform a test, that is a law enforcement responsibility and the marin has NO RIGHTS over who and how you use the water. This test is simply illegal! I know it's the end of boating season for most people, but I Lake Havasu next year. The other ramps simply can not handle the boats that ARE LEGAL but are turned away from the Marina. As an example, Windsor was packed, and on the verge of closing, on a Satruday afternoon by 1 PM on an AFTER LABOR DAY weekend. As we all know, the crowds typically thin out after Labor Day but look at the impact the Marain's illegal test had on an off-season off weekend. Imagine what this will do on the busy holiday weekends and regular summer weekends? Keep in mind, coming next year at Windsor, AZ Game and Fish will be taking a more active role in this by performing their own tests. However, these tests will be legal per the AZ law. So, again, this impactss everyone. Please donate what you can.

[Essex502]

I concur! The ramp situation in Lake Havasu City is tenuous at best. If total ramp capacity is cut due to the Marina's policies of turning away Arizona and Callifornia legal, muffled boats then that load will be shifted to the other ramps. This is called a "domino effect". Each ramp will be impacted up and down the lake.
So...please take the time to write a letter if you haven't and to donate to the legal fund if you want ot help change this pracitce.
Thanks to those who are involved!

[redi4fun]

Lakeracer check your PM's :D

[NMlakerat]

I just read all of this and everybodys opinions. sorry but I have been away for awile busy filming a movie and hav't been to havasu ( my favorite lake ) since spring break I have a warlock 29' world class it weighs 4500lbs and has lightning headers so from what i gathered i could not launch at the marina could someone please update me so I can make a desisition what my position on this is. I have launched there many times before although last time i launched at the naudical :confused:

[Havasu_Dreamin]

NM, it all depends on where you exhaust exists from the transom. Is it above the waterline? If so, and if you do not have some type of muffling device installed, I am fairly confident you will fail the BS test @ the marina.

[mickeyfinn]

Doesn't exactly involve us from the east coast but was wondering where you are with this. Seems to have slowed down since it is close to holidays. Is anyone still pushing this?

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Doesn't exactly involve us from the east coast but was wondering where you are with this. Seems to have slowed down since it is close to holidays. Is anyone still pushing this?
We've got some things in the fire so to speak. Contat LakeRacer if you have any specific questions. We're still gladly accepting donations for the cause.

[welk2party]

I have been follwoing with great interest and support our rights to boat fairly and legally. I understand that things change in regards to the law and that we have to conform to them weter we agree with them or not. Some changes are for the better long term while others are simply overstepping. I would love to help in any way that I can. Unfortunately, my finances do not allow me to make a monetary donation at this time. Rest assured that I will as soon as I can. In the meantime, if there is something else that I can do, please do not hesitate to let me know.
- Chris Skinner :cool:

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I have been follwoing with great interest and support our rights to boat fairly and legally. I understand that things change in regards to the law and that we have to conform to them weter we agree with them or not. Some changes are for the better long term while others are simply overstepping. I would love to help in any way that I can. Unfortunately, my finances do not allow me to make a monetary donation at this time. Rest assured that I will as soon as I can. In the meantime, if there is something else that I can do, please do not hesitate to let me know.
- Chris Skinner :cool:
Chris, no problem. As I said, we've got some things going on and we plan to stay on top of this and fight for our rights as boaters and ensure that we are all treated equally and fairly within the eys of the law.

[HOOTER SLED-]

Meaningless babble!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Meaningless babble!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why do you say that? I assure you that here is a core group pf boaters that are committed to seeing this thru for everyones boating rights.

[HOOTER SLED-]

Why do you say that? I assure you that here is a core group pf boaters that are committed to seeing this thru for everyones boating rights.
I was saying that because I was posting last night while I was buzzed. And I was just babbling in every post. :rollside: Nothing against the cause brother. Didn't mean for it to come across the wrong way. :D

[OGShocker]

For those of you who are interested in seeing the problem resolved with Lake Havasu Marina the following account has been set up:
Lake Havasu Legal Fund
P.O. Box 39611
Phoenix, AZ 85069
Make your checks payable to Lake Havasu Legal Fund.
Thanks for your support
Hey Art,
We sent a check to you a couple months ago. You have yet to deposit it. Please let me know if you received the check or not. If I do not hear from you in the next week I will cancel and reissue another check in January.
Thank you,
Mark & Denise B.