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CrazyHippy
10-14-2004, 01:13 PM
I keep wondering how Kerry plans on keeping his promises.
He wants to add 2 divisions to the military, OK, great. HOW? Is there currently a line to join? Are the recruiters turning people away?
He wants more special ops guys, OK, great idea. HOW? Correct me if i'm wrong, but anyone that wants to be special ops can try. So is he going to HAVE to lower the requirements and end up w/ "sorta special ops?"
Then there is health care. Another GREAT idea, and he claims to pay for it by repealing the tax cut. Lets look at some numbers. 1.2 Trillion dollars is what Kerry claims it will cost. Bush claims it to be closer to 2 trillion. and the Tax rollback shoulld raise in Kerry's words 800 billion dollars and 600 billion in Bush's words.
I'm no math major, but even using the more favorable (probably not accurate) numbers there is a 400 Billion dollar defict there.... Using Bush's #'s (again probably not acurate) there is a 1.2 Trillion dollar deficit. I imagine the truth is somewhere between those numbers. So HOW wil this get payed for?
There are lots of other inconsistancies in "The Plan" but these are what i was yelling at the TV over last night. Can Anyone explain how this can possibly work?
BJH :rolleyes:

kahanamoko
10-14-2004, 01:17 PM
I keep wondering how Kerry plans on keeping his promises.
He wants to add 2 divisions to the military, OK, great. HOW? Is there currently a line to join? Are the recruiters turning people away?
He wants more special ops guys, OK, great idea. HOW? Correct me if i'm wrong, but anyone that wants to be special ops can try. So is he going to HAVE to lower the requirements and end up w/ "sorta special ops?"
Then there is health care. Another GREAT idea, and he claims to pay for it by repealing the tax cut. Lets look at some numbers. 1.2 Trillion dollars is what Kerry claims it will cost. Bush claims it to be closer to 2 trillion. and the Tax rollback shoulld raise in Kerry's words 800 billion dollars and 600 billion in Bush's words.
I'm no math major, but even using the more favorable (probably not accurate) numbers there is a 400 Billion dollar defict there.... Using Bush's #'s (again probably not acurate) there is a 1.2 Trillion dollar deficit. I imagine the truth is somewhere between those numbers. So HOW wil this get payed for?
There are lots of other inconsistancies in "The Plan" but these are what i was yelling at the TV over last night. Can Anyone explain how this can possibly work?
BJH :rolleyes:
There were divisions in the Army which were only recently deactivated. It would simply require reactivation. Simple.
Even though anyone can try to be in special ops, there are limited numbers of slots (line, paragraph) in a unit's MTOE which only permits a limited number of personnel. Increasing the number of units within special ops would increase the number of slots for personnel. As of right now, special ops units in the military are the most deployed and thus most overextended in the military. Simple.
Not sure on the figures for the health plan. Perhaps if you look on Kerry's own site you can get an answer. Maybe then have an email address where you can send your question.

CrazyHippy
10-14-2004, 01:22 PM
Aren't the kerryites Beating bush up over not letting troops out? Would reactivation be the exact same thing?
BJH

CrazyHippy
10-14-2004, 01:23 PM
The health plan figures came from the 2nd debate.
Straight from their respective canidates mouths
BJH

Red Eye
10-14-2004, 01:24 PM
How is it simple by simply reactivating divisions that have been de-activated? Like the thread starter stated, there is no line to get into the military. So by activating divisions, it would simply be taking away from the current ones and making them weaker by depleting there current numbers. How is that possibly going to make anything better?

kahanamoko
10-14-2004, 01:27 PM
As for where the recruits would come for the two new divisions, your guess is as good as mine. Currently, I don't believe recruiters are turning people away from the military because they don't have slots for them. More money for college, or other incentives for military service is the usual pitch. Not sure what Kerry plans to do for bodies to fill two new divisions. Two new divisions would undoubtedly help though. Bush would apparently prefer to exhaust his current military strength and ultimately reduce overall morale with repeat and extended deployments of reserve and national guard soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coastguardsmen.

CrazyHippy
10-14-2004, 01:30 PM
More money for college, or other benefits sounds like it's going to cost me (a taxpayer).
BJH

kahanamoko
10-14-2004, 01:33 PM
Probably. Better to pay someone that is doing service for their country than someone on the welfare system though. At least they are providing a valuable service to their country, right? Plus, with the increase in their education, they will eventually be in a higher tax bracket and will ultimately pay the money back in taxes. It's all good.

Red Eye
10-14-2004, 01:33 PM
As for where the recruits would come for the two new divisions, your guess is as good as mine. Currently, I don't believe recruiters are turning people away from the military because they don't have slots for them. More money for college, or other incentives for military service is the usual pitch. Not sure what Kerry plans to do for bodies to fill two new divisions. Two new divisions would undoubtedly help though. Bush would apparently prefer to exhaust his current military strength and ultimately reduce overall morale with repeat and extended deployments of reserve and national guard soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines and coastguardsmen.
Two new divisions would undoubtedly help if the numbers were there to fill the billets. As for the morale being low, that is going to happen no matter what. Nobody "really" wants to be over there, but in the big picture they do it for their Country. I remember when I signed the enlistment contract, they did not hide the fact that my time could be involuntary extended so this should be no suprise to anyone.

CrazyHippy
10-14-2004, 01:36 PM
My best friend is currently home from Iraq (wounded in a Mortar attack) and cant wait to be cleared to go back. Must be that low moral :sleeping:
BJH

kahanamoko
10-14-2004, 01:39 PM
Two new divisions would undoubtedly help if the numbers were there to fill the billets. As for the morale being low, that is going to happen no matter what. Nobody "really" wants to be over there, but in the big picture they do it for their Country. I remember when I signed the enlistment contract, they did not hide the fact that my time could be involuntary extended so this should be no suprise to anyone.
I don't believe anyone in the military fails to understand that the contract they signed requires them to deploy. It certainly doesn't preclude this government from implementing these deployments in a fair manner. And although morale will undoubtedly change during a military action, it will undoubtedly lower even more when an overall "fairness" doesn't apply to the method by which the deployments are implemented. Reserve and National Guard troops are supposed to be an "augmentation" to the active duty troops. As it is now, they are deploying for longer and more often than some of their active duty counterparts. Is this fair?

CrazyHippy
10-14-2004, 01:42 PM
No one forced anyone to Join... we have an all volunteer military.
If you were told going in, that you might have to stay longer than planned, you no longer have the right to bitch about it if it happens.
BJH

kahanamoko
10-14-2004, 01:47 PM
No one forced anyone to Join... we have an all volunteer military.
If you were told going in, that you might have to stay longer than planned, you no longer have the right to bitch about it if it happens.
BJH
No one is bitching. One has to be concerned with the overall morale in the military. If one sees the administration doing something that is decreasing morale then perhaps you would prefer it if they just kept their mouth shut and didn't tell the administration so that they could do something to address the problem. Low morale equals so many problems that you cannot even imagine. Suicide. Murder. Drug Addiction. Lack of Esprit de Corps. Failure to accomplish the mission.

Jeanyus
10-14-2004, 01:50 PM
Lets see if I get this right, Kerry is going to take an $800 million tax increase and turn it into 1.2 trillion dollars.
And he's going to create 2 new divisions with no soldiers to fill the slots, correct me if I'm wrong, but a divission is 500,000 people.
Kerry did say he is a Catholic, maybe he's got that loaves and fishes thing going for him.
Or maybe we shold just file it in the BS file, with the rest of what he talks about. Example: American soldiers are commiting war crimes, comparable to Gangis Kahn, absolute BS!

CrazyHippy
10-14-2004, 01:52 PM
Moral will probably be better when the UN is in control... The french will train everyone in the military, even those 2 new divisions, how to make a flag out of an undershirt...
Our new special forces teams can sit around while we tell people not to break international treaties or the have to go to bed w/o dessert...
Good times.
BJH

Steve 1
10-14-2004, 02:22 PM
I keep wondering how Kerry plans on keeping his promises.
He wants to add 2 divisions to the military, OK, great. HOW? Is there currently a line to join? Are the recruiters turning people away?
He wants more special ops guys, OK, great idea. HOW? Correct me if i'm wrong, but anyone that wants to be special ops can try. So is he going to HAVE to lower the requirements and end up w/ "sorta special ops?"
Then there is health care. Another GREAT idea, and he claims to pay for it by repealing the tax cut. Lets look at some numbers. 1.2 Trillion dollars is what Kerry claims it will cost. Bush claims it to be closer to 2 trillion. and the Tax rollback shoulld raise in Kerry's words 800 billion dollars and 600 billion in Bush's words.
I'm no math major, but even using the more favorable (probably not accurate) numbers there is a 400 Billion dollar defict there.... Using Bush's #'s (again probably not acurate) there is a 1.2 Trillion dollar deficit. I imagine the truth is somewhere between those numbers. So HOW wil this get payed for?
There are lots of other inconsistancies in "The Plan" but these are what i was yelling at the TV over last night. Can Anyone explain how this can possibly work?
BJH :rolleyes:
If that traitor ever got into power there would be an exodus from the Military by everyone that could then the Rats would have to initiate the draft.Plus the commie Bastard has no plan.Oop's but there is the Bent Bill zipper approach TAX and more TAX.

kahanamoko
10-14-2004, 05:22 PM
And he's going to create 2 new divisions with no soldiers to fill the slots, correct me if I'm wrong, but a divission is 500,000 people.
You are wrong (on so many levels). A division is anywhere from about 15,000 to 18,000 depending on the type of division (mechanized, heavy, light, airborne, etc.).

Back Forty
10-14-2004, 06:19 PM
Looks like the GAS PUMPER has the night off.
Hey Kaknstuff I see you can build bird feeders and portable computers..!
http://ggm.gabber.org/Daft%20Stuff/Portable.jpg
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kahanamoko
10-14-2004, 06:20 PM
Glastron?

steelcomp
10-14-2004, 07:53 PM
Glastron?
One word responses aren't going to do it dick head. You're LOOSING!!! Look at the board!
LOOSER!

Seadog
10-15-2004, 10:34 AM
I find it interesting that only Kerry is talking about reviving the draft and he is also talking about 2 new divisions. He is also talking about raising taxes, spending trillons on health care and buying our way into the UN's good graces. All of this sounds like it is going to cost me major money without any improvement in my life style. No thanks.
Personally, I think that a revived form of draft could be a good thing. Not the type of lottery system with all sorts of outs that can be exploited by those with money or other methods. A law requiring every able bodied man and woman to perform six months to a year of federal service. For the minimum service period, they would receive room and board, but no pay. Give them a choice of any social work, like hospitals, day care, elder care, or of federal support activities, like working for the park service, immigration, military, police, etc. For those who are willing to do combat arms service for 2-3 years, they get paid for their time.
Only after they perform their service do you allow them to have driver's licenses, attend college, vote or own property.

Seadog
10-15-2004, 10:37 AM
BTW, I do not see anyone that is paying attention to grammer or spelling. It is not hard to make a mistake, but it would help if you would proof what you do.

Freak
10-15-2004, 11:03 AM
Seadog
I wouldnt be shocked if the draft is reinstated regardless of who is in office very soon. I bet it will be a longer than 6mths, my guess 2-3yrs.

Jeanyus
10-15-2004, 11:10 AM
A law requiring every able bodied man and woman to perform six months to a year of federal service. For the minimum service period, they would receive room and board, but no pay. Give them a choice of any social work, like hospitals, day care, elder care, or of federal support activities, like working for the park service, immigration, military, police, etc.
I worked with a guy from Romania, And what you have just described is how the cummunist country of Romania, staffs thier military. Doesn't sound like a good Idea to me.
Probably. Better to pay someone that is doing service for their country than someone on the welfare system though. At least they are providing a valuable service to their country, right? Plus, with the increase in their education, they will eventually be in a higher tax bracket and will ultimately pay the money back in taxes. It's all good.
So what you are saying is, take everyone who is collecting welfare and put them in the military. Well for the first time we agree.

STV_Keith
10-15-2004, 11:55 AM
Anyone seen this? http://media1.streamtoyou.com/rnc/RNC091604.wmv

Jordy
10-15-2004, 12:14 PM
Dammit Keith, what's the big idea of battling with facts??? You know they don't like that. :D :D :D
That's a great clip too. :D

THOR
10-15-2004, 12:36 PM
Excellent post Keith.

Seadog
10-15-2004, 01:49 PM
While I do not think it would ever happen, I do feel that everyone should be willing to donate some of their life to their country. A draft may well get reinstated. I do not feel that it will be any more equitable than the last one, but that's life. It just goes to show that Kerry is thinking about the draft since he brought it up.
As for the time period, note I specified that combat arms would be for a longer term. One year service with further service in the Reserves or Guard, or two years straight service. There are some military support services that could be handled by short term duty, like food services, janitors, maintenance, etc.

eliminatedsprinter
10-15-2004, 03:46 PM
While I do not think it would ever happen, I do feel that everyone should be willing to donate some of their life to their country. A draft may well get reinstated. I do not feel that it will be any more equitable than the last one, but that's life. It just goes to show that Kerry is thinking about the draft since he brought it up.
As for the time period, note I specified that combat arms would be for a longer term. One year service with further service in the Reserves or Guard, or two years straight service. There are some military support services that could be handled by short term duty, like food services, janitors, maintenance, etc.
Last I heard (as of last nights news) enlistments are still up. However, I can't see lot's of young men jumping up for the chance to serve if it is under a new new commander and chief that has called the war a collossal mistake so many times. I'd guess if Kerry is elected there is a pretty good chance we will need a draft, esp if we are to meet his promised goals (as if he really plans to try to meet them). :rolleyes: