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View Full Version : More on the noise issue in Havasu!



Tremor Therapy
10-21-2004, 06:41 AM
A point was brought up on another board, and I think it bears some additional thinking, and possible letter fodder!
Magic34 was in Havasu this weekend (as was I), and Havasu had their bike rally. Now I enjoy a nice chopper, but the noise they make is ungodly. Well the point Magic34 was making is that these choppers make as much, if not more noise than our boats! They can drive choppers all over town, disrupting everything...setting off car alarms, rattling windows, and causing hearing aides to malfunction.
Now our boats are on the water, and potentially miles away from some of the biggest whinners! So what gives? They welcome bikers and their obnoxiously loud bikes all over the town all year long, but boaters with their boats miles from town are a problem?
I just don't get it.....anybody have a better explaination?

PHX ATC
10-21-2004, 07:15 AM
Linky linky to story here (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61212) .

Ion
10-21-2004, 07:47 AM
It's kinda like the lousy neighbor's barking dog. It's ok, according to the authorities, if the neighbor's yappin' dog only pisses you off occasionally, but if it does it every night, then it's a problem.

NOTALENT
10-21-2004, 07:47 AM
well, some of the points they make that do make sence...The smog in the channel...and the traffic there as well..the deaths and accidents from drunkin boaters and party goers...and the people that leave there trash everywhere.. these are some of the differences..that are all fixable...as long as people are going to respect the place and the lives of others.

Tremor Therapy
10-21-2004, 09:46 AM
Okay...I can understand some of that, but (1) how many motorcycle accidents happen in town every year? (2) How many injuries and deaths along the Havasu roadways? (3) Does the motorcycling gang really bring in the kind of money that the boating community does?
I will say that I have never been there on a summer weekend when at least a dozen or two 100 db choppers or Harley's have gone by! So if its boat noise they are complaining about, the bikes are a hell of a lot closer to town than the boats, and after a couple of hours at their favorite watering hole, I imagine there are a few bikers that have rather high bac levels as well.

Havasu_Dreamin
10-21-2004, 09:50 AM
I don't believe the town is making any issue about the noise, I could be wrong though. The marina is the only driving force behind the noise and what is going on there.

Magic34
10-21-2004, 10:09 AM
I don't believe the town is making any issue about the noise, I could be wrong though. The marina is the only driving force behind the noise and what is going on there.
But what about all the Jan 1, 2005 talk??? City and local law enforcement pushing that issue?

Havasu_Dreamin
10-21-2004, 10:22 AM
But what about all the Jan 1, 2005 talk??? City and local law enforcement pushing that issue?
The January 1, 2005 from the best of my knowledge only addresses the new CA law that goes into effect with respect to db levels of boats. The new CA law will require that all boats be no louder than 88 dbs 39 inches from the back of the transom 4 ft above the water line.
I have read on the other threads that people have been told by various people over in LHC, from Park Rangers at Windsor, to residents, to god-knows-who, that AZ is going to start cracking down on their own law. The law in AZ is 86 dbs at 50 ft. from the transom. No AZ law enforcement agency can hold you accountable to the CA law. But, SBSD can issue a ticket to any boat anywhere on the lake that does not meet the CA law even if the boat is operated by an AZ resident and is registered in AZ.

Magic34
10-21-2004, 10:25 AM
I don't believe the town is making any issue about the noise, I could be wrong though. The marina is the only driving force behind the noise and what is going on there.
Also, the city is the one who is letting the Marina get away with what they are doing. The city could stop the actions of the marina tomorrow if they felt they needed to.
I am NOT trying to start a battle between bikes and boats at all. I want a custom bike, but the wife has other thoughts. My argument is that I would like the city to realize that boaters and bikers come to their city with expensive toys and deep pockets. When a resident makes a comment about boaters and their lack of courtesy because they are loud and drink a lot, the bikes are just showing a differnet aspect to the argument. Make it difficult for both to come to Lake Havasu City, and the economy will be heavily damaged. Before a local on the other side attempts to belittle me, I did get my degree in economics at ASU. I feel I am at the least a little qualified to enter this dicussion.
I do have a quad that I ride in the high country during the summers. The aftermarket exhaust on the bike is loud, but as I pass other cabins and businesses while riding to the trailhead, I keep the bike at low rpm's to help keep the noise down. Same thing in the channel. I don't rev my boat near businesses or anyone in the channel (unless I need to use the motors as a horn in emergency), but once in open waters, what harm is caused?

Essex502
10-21-2004, 10:27 AM
HD is absolutely correct on the laws in the two states...The California law is much tougher to pass and all of us will have to deal with the tougher law as some point since it's a shared jurisdiction issue on the River and Lake Havasu.
I concur as well that this is a Marina issue more than a Lake Havasu City issue.

Magic34
10-21-2004, 10:28 AM
I don't believe the town is making any issue about the noise, I could be wrong though. The marina is the only driving force behind the noise and what is going on there.
One more question, Isn't the locals against "performance" boaters helping in the push of this? I was under the impression from all the threads that there was some local citizen pressure as well.

prosthogod
10-21-2004, 10:29 AM
The January 1, 2005 from the best of my knowledge only addresses the new CA law that goes into effect with respect to db levels of boats. The new CA law will require that all boats be no louder than 88 dbs 39 inches from the back of the transom 4 ft above the water line.
I have read on the other threads that people have been told by various people over in LHC, from Park Rangers at Windsor, to residents, to god-knows-who, that AZ is going to start cracking down on their own law. The law in AZ is 86 dbs at 50 ft. from the transom. No AZ law enforcement agency can hold you accountable to the CA law. But, SBSD can issue a ticket to any boat anywhere on the lake that does not meet the CA law even if the boat is operated by an AZ resident and is registered in AZ.
That's BS. I live, own 3 ho9mes in az., work here, and boat here. Why should I have to live under Ca. regs on my water. Isn't the dividing line the middle of the lake. I'll stay on my side they stay on theirs. :devil:

Magic34
10-21-2004, 10:31 AM
I have read on the other threads that people have been told by various people over in LHC, from Park Rangers at Windsor, to residents, to god-knows-who, that AZ is going to start cracking down on their own law. The law in AZ is 86 dbs at 50 ft. from the transom. No AZ law enforcement agency can hold you accountable to the CA law.QUOTE]
That is one of my questions, why? Local legislation can help change that. I was also under the impression that LHC doesn't really feel they fit into the other AZ political rhetoric.

Magic34
10-21-2004, 11:24 AM
That's BS. I live, own 3 ho9mes in az., work here, and boat here. Why should I have to live under Ca. regs on my water. Isn't the dividing line the middle of the lake. I'll stay on my side they stay on theirs. :devil:
Makes no sense to me that if you are an Arizona resident, have Arizona registration, and have proof that you have launched your vessel on Arizona land, on a lake that shares borders, then having a collective effort sometimes is not fair. Laws that are made by the state of AZ, by which the voters/citizens have made the choice by who to put in office, are being subject to laws that CA has signed. AZ residents have not voted for the politicians that sign these bills into laws and vice versa for CA residents as well.
I am all for a collective law enforcement to keep the waters safe, but they need to be on the same page. There needs to be a collective agreement between the agencies on a consistent effort to enforce the laws. There may already be one, even if it unwritten.
BoatCop may know. :messedup: :confused:

Havasu_Dreamin
10-21-2004, 11:28 AM
That's BS. I live, own 3 ho9mes in az., work here, and boat here. Why should I have to live under Ca. regs on my water. Isn't the dividing line the middle of the lake. I'll stay on my side they stay on theirs. :devil:
I agree, but from what I have been told from people in the know, in order to avoid the arguement of I was on the AZ side of the lake, that is East of the middle, all of the law enforcement agencies that border the lake have an agreement that they have jurisdiction from shore-to-shore.

Havasu_Dreamin
10-21-2004, 11:36 AM
Makes no sense to me that if you are an Arizona resident, have Arizona registration, and have proof that you have launched your vessel on Arizona land, on a lake that shares borders, then having a collective effort sometimes is not fair. Laws that are made by the state of AZ, by which the voters/citizens have made the choice by who to put in office, are being subject to laws that CA has signed. AZ residents have not voted for the politicians that sign these bills into laws and vice versa for CA residents as well.
I am all for a collective law enforcement to keep the waters safe, but they need to be on the same page. There needs to be a collective agreement between the agencies on a consistent effort to enforce the laws. There may already be one, even if it unwritten.
BoatCop may know. :messedup: :confused:
Exactly, the easiet thing would be for the laws on lakes that share borders to be equal. That would certainly make it easier for boaters to understand the laws.
Also, while there may an agreement that the agencies have shore-to-shore jurisdiction, it was also explained to me that LHCPD has responsibility for the channel and Thompson Bay and the county agencies "split up" the rest of the lake, along with State and Federal Agencies, but the shore-to-shore still applies.
Keep in mind that all of these agencies have law enforcement authority on Lake Havasu:
Arizona Agencies:
Lake Havasu PD
Mohave County Sheriff
La Paz County Sheriff
AZ Game and Fish
California Agencies:
San Bernandino County Sheriff
CA Fish and Game
Federal Agencies:
Burea of Land Management
Coast Guard
Other Agencies:
CRIT Police

KoolPop
10-21-2004, 12:59 PM
It's to friggin hot in the summer to ride a bike in Havasu. Now that it's starting to cool off a bit you'll see more Harleys. As for me I love the noise, I do both. Boat in the summer, and ride the rest of the year. :cool: Also just because one group is catching grief, lets not throw the other group under the bus and create more problems for us MOTORHEADS.

Magic34
10-21-2004, 01:09 PM
It's to friggin hot in the summer to ride a bike in Havasu. Now that it's starting to cool off a bit you'll see more Harleys. As for me I love the noise, I do both. Boat in the summer, and ride the rest of the year. :cool: Also just because one group is catching grief, lets not throw the other group under the bus and create more problems for us MOTORHEADS.
Definitely not trying to start sh#t or throw the cycles under the bus. I would support the cycle crowd through hell or high water. I would like to create an awareness that---- IF------ the trend with noise continues the city will not continue the financial growth that they have seen due to toursim from the boating and biker crowd.

Essex502
10-21-2004, 01:37 PM
BoatCop can give all of you the best answer why multiple states' agencies can cite you on the lake. If you meet the CA noise law you will easily meet AZ's.

Boatcop
10-21-2004, 04:20 PM
History lesson!
Back in the '70s a drunk ran over another boat on Lake Havasu, killing 2 people. Mohave County (AZ) Sheriff's Dept. did the investigation and brought charges of manslaughter in Mohave County Superior Court.
The high-dollar defense attorney argued that Mohave County has to prove that the accident happened in their jurisdiction. The border between the two states is the River. Not some mythical line down the center.
Of course, there was no way to prove exactly where the accident took place and that it was in Arizona, so the case was dismissed.
The file was given to San Bernardino for them to prosecute, and the same argument prevailed. The Coast Guard took over, but at that time the maximum penalty for "Grossly Negligent Operation" was a fine.
Those court decisions made it so neither state's laws were enforceable anywhere on the Colorado River, where it borders 2 states.
The States then got together and passed what's known as the "Colorado River Interstate Compact". It gives Arizona Courts jurisdiction for violations of AZ law anywhere on the River to the high water line on the opposite shoreline. Same for California Courts.
It also gives Arizona Peace Officers law enforcement powers 25 air miles into the adjoining state. Same-same for California. Those powers are there to enable us to provide back-up for the other state's police, and to respond to emergency calls when they may be tied up or otherwise unavailable, and vice-versa.
Now this is for similar laws, even though they may not be exactly alike. Such as the noise limit, or age of operation. As long as both states have a law dealing with the same subject, each state can enforce their version of the law.
Example: Until California raised the PFD age limit, they were at 6 years old, we were at 12. We enforced the 12 year old limit anywhere on the River or Lake.
Their age limit for operation is 16, ours is 12. They can enforce their 16 year old law.
Before we lowered the BAC impairment presumption level from .10%, California's was already at .08%. They enforced the .08% limit anywhere on the Lake or River. No matter where you were from or where your boat was registered.
Their noise level measurement standards may be different from ours, but the fact that we have one, makes their's enforceable.
Now if California were to ban blue boats, and we don't have a law dealing with illegal colors, that law would be unenforceable by California on the River.
The compact has been ratified by California, Arizona, Nevada and Utah, so that the laws can be enforced by the respective states.
The main point of all this, is that there is no line down the center of the River or Lake, dividing them into Arizona "side" or California "side".

Magic34
10-21-2004, 04:52 PM
Thanks BoatCop, makes sense, I wished I agreed with the CA laws, but it does seem to be a "fair" medium when it is laid out that way.