Question for LVjetboy

[Taylorman]

How is that Moroso solenoid valve you added to your header cooling lines working? I had mine off last night and i blew through it and a little air is able to pass through it while its closed. Not sure if its broken or if there is some trash in it. Mine is not a Moroso, its one i bought from Grainger.
Thanks.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/161DCP_3443-med.JPG

[LVjetboy]

So far so good. I now have a full season on it. Dry below the chip set point and plenty of flow above. Also, no problems with plugging or sticking yet although I normally boat clean water and I have a SS (originally fuel intended) screen upstream. Only problem I had was a McGuyver electric connection I wired late am before FBC 1 to the manual shutoff up front...came loose on the river. I assumed the solenoid was at fault. No big deal could've been an easy fix, instead I dulled the headers running dry upriver :frown: before discovering the wire had simply come loose.
Not sure about your leak test or if that would be a problem running. Some level of water bleed-by may be just fine at idle. The Moroso's pretty easy to take apart and check for problems or clean, you may be able to take yours apart and clean it too.
Nice SS lines btw.
jer

[Taylorman]

Have you had any problems with you solenoid? Im having problems with mine sticking open. Seems like the spring that pushes it closed is not strong enough to close it. The brass plunger is binding up inside the valves creating to much friction for the spring to push it closed.

[tahitijet]

taylorman.. This is just a thought as i don't know which valve your running but we use alot of solinoid valves and the majority of the ones we use require a back preasure to fully close (usually around 5psi.) which may be why you can blow through it?

[LVjetboy]

No sticking problems yet Taylorman. I ran the Dragn last Friday and Saturday at Temple Bar. Solenoid works perfect. Opens and closes at the same rpm every time...headers dry after closing.
This a side note but earlier someone questioned change in rpm with injection. I have a switch up front to overide the chip...shut water off at any rpm. Saturday Lake Mead was smooth as glass, great for testing so I played with the shut-off at 4k rpm and got a 50 rpm jump with the water off. This seemed consistant at other rpms. Certainly not a big change and could be mistaken for no change if you didn't have smooth conditions and a steady tach, but it was repeatable.
And after a tough day of testing...
http://members.cox.net/lvjetboy/ToughDay.jpg
:) :) :)
jer

[Taylorman]

Since you like to discuss technical issues, here's one for you. Im having problems with my solenoid valves sticking open. I spoke to someone in technical support over at Dayton, the manuf. of the valves i have. He told me the reason mine is not closing is because its a direct acting valve. A direct acting valve needs a pressure differential for it to operate. The inlet and outlet pressure differential needs to be 2-200 psi for it to close properly. He said i need a direct operating valve which has a does not need operating pressure differential to open and close properly.
The one i have is from Grainger part # 4a700.
I ordered part # 3a431.
The flow rating is much lower on the 3A431. Do you think 4.8 GPM will be enough water for Bassett exhaust?

[LVjetboy]

"I spoke to someone in technical support over at Dayton, the manuf. of the valves i have. He told me the reason mine is not closing is because its a direct acting valve. A direct acting valve needs a pressure differential for it to operate. The inlet and outlet pressure differential needs to be 2-200 psi for it to close properly. He said i need a direct operating valve which has a does not need operating pressure differential to open and close properly."
Direct acting and direct operating are the same. Both describe a design with positive mechanical actuation such as solenoid plunger and spring. No minimum signal pressure needed. So tech supports answer doesn't make sense to me. Valves that require a minimum pressure to operate are typically classified as pilot operated valves. In fact, if you read valve specs you'll find the terms "direct acting" and "direct operating" used interchangeably refering to the same valve design.
My understanding is with a direct acting/operating valve there's a maximum leak pressure associated with the spring and orifice size. If you exceed rated pressure you may leak in closed position. If the orifice too large or the spring too weak, you get leak. See your doc. :)
That doesn't mean you need direct acting instead of direct operating...one and the same. That doesn't mean you need pilot operated either. You need a valve rated to your closed pressure and you need a valve that doesn't stick open from contamination, corrosion or poor design.
"Do you think 4.8 GPM will be enough water for Bassett exhaust?"
Yes. Nearly 5 gpm and you probably got more than steam out the back. But what pressure is 4.8 gpm rated at?
jer

[Taylorman]

Since you like to discuss technical issues, here's one for you. Im having problems with my solenoid valves sticking open. I spoke to someone in technical support over at Dayton, the manuf. of the valves i have. He told me the reason mine is not closing is because its a direct acting valve. A direct acting valve needs a pressure differential for it to operate. The inlet and outlet pressure differential needs to be 2-200 psi for it to close properly. He said i need a direct operating valve which has a does not need operating pressure differential to open and close properly.
The one i have is from Grainger part # 4a700.
I ordered part # 3a431.
The flow rating is much lower on the 3A431. Do you think 4.8 GPM will be enough water for Bassett exhaust?
Note to self, proof read posts before submitting. Here is what i meant to write.
Since you like to discuss technical issues, here's one for you. Im having problems with my solenoid valves sticking open. I spoke to someone in technical support over at Dayton, the manuf. of the valves i have. He told me the reason mine is not closing is because its a pilot operated valve. A pilot operated valve needs a pressure differential for it to operate. The inlet and outlet pressure differential needs to be 2-200 psi for it to close properly. Since the one i have has no back pressure, it is not closing correctly. He said i need a direct acting valve which does not need an operating pressure differential to open and close properly.
The one i have is from Grainger part # 4a700. (Pilot Operated)
I ordered part # 3a431. (Direct Acting)

[LVjetboy]

Makes more sense. I have some thoughts on flow rating for your new valve but gotta post later.
jer

[Taylorman]

Makes more sense. I have some thoughts on flow rating for your new valve but gotta post later.
jer
Sounds good. Just so you know before you post about that, i have two valves, one on each exhaust. Gonna go run the boat on my lunch hour.

[Sanger D]

do you have coated headers or chrome? and how much water do you run in them,I,ve got the new lines and the tee just need to plumb it, but some say my cam is too big and it will suck water,I,ve got a new set of cermakrome headers and I would like to keep them that way. :)

[Taylorman]

Im under the impression that you only need to be able to see a very small amount of liquid water coming out of the exhaust, the rest is steam. Mine right now has to much for sure. Ive got a steady stream of water coming out. Hopefully my new valves will cure that. Im headed out for a run at lunch.

[Sanger D]

what are you , a gas dock attendant or fisherman by trade? :D :D

[Taylorman]

what are you , a gas dock attendant or fisherman by trade? :D :D
Is that suppose to be a Louisiana joke? If not, then i don't get it.
I do spend alot of time at the gas dock though, i own a jet boat and i do fish alot, but neither is my trade.

[oldbuck40]

Im under the impression that you only need to be able to see a very small amount of liquid water coming out of the exhaust, the rest is steam. Mine right now has to much for sure. Ive got a steady stream of water coming out. Hopefully my new valves will cure that. Im headed out for a run at lunch.hey Kevin why all the electronic stuff??? just seems to be a little overkill! on mine i have one of the lines out of the,where the thermostat goes, i dont have one!! just 2 lines, one line goes out thru the transom and the other goes to the headers! after comeing out of the housing it drops to the floor and over to a stringer where i have a ball valve mounted then out of the valve it goes to the bassett T where they go to the headers! if there is a problem of one header getting water b/4 the other the 2 lines from the T must be equal lengths! the ball valve controls over riding pressure to the T which will keep it open even at idle,i adjusted the ball valve where the T shuts off at idle and comes on about 15 to 1800 rpm and have had no problems! just my .02

[Hemicbx]

The valves you guys are using, are they normally open or normally closed?
I've been thinking about a similar setup and I'd lean toward a normally open valve. My thought is that the boat spends most of it's engine running time above 1500 rpm (or whatever the flow setpoint is). A normally open valve would require less "operating time" than a normally closed.
Not saying that either is way is right or wrong, just overthinking a simple issue.
Thoughts or comments?
Hemicbx

[Taylorman]

hey Kevin why all the electronic stuff??? just seems to be a little overkill! on mine i have one of the lines out of the,where the thermostat goes, i dont have one!! just 2 lines, one line goes out thru the transom and the other goes to the headers! after comeing out of the housing it drops to the floor and over to a stringer where i have a ball valve mounted then out of the valve it goes to the bassett T where they go to the headers! if there is a problem of one header getting water b/4 the other the 2 lines from the T must be equal lengths! the ball valve controls over riding pressure to the T which will keep it open even at idle,i adjusted the ball valve where the T shuts off at idle and comes on about 15 to 1800 rpm and have had no problems! just my .02
Im just anal like that. Ive changed how my boat is plumbed about 10 times since ive owned the boat. Mine is like this. I have the two lines off the thermo housing going to the two solenoid valves that are attached to my header water lines. Then my water dump line is from the 1/2 pipe threaded hole where the temp sensor goes. I just changed it to this setup recently and it seems to be working ok. Im going to change the dump line to -12 soon cause the -8 is a little to small. Im seeing almost 20 psi block pressure at WOT. I would like no more than 15 psi. Cant wait till June 17.
The valves you guys are using, are they normally open or normally closed?
I've been thinking about a similar setup and I'd lean toward a normally open valve. My thought is that the boat spends most of it's engine running time above 1500 rpm (or whatever the flow setpoint is). A normally open valve would require less "operating time" than a normally closed.
Not saying that either is way is right or wrong, just overthinking a simple issue.
Thoughts or comments?
Hemicbx
Mine are normally closed. The are closed at idle and i use an msd window switch to open them up at about 2000 rpms. If you use normally open valves, you would have to set them up so they close when you turn the key on. I don't know how you would then get them to open when your off idle. Im going test the new ones i bought yesterday in a little while.

[oldbuck40]

do you have a valve back at the pump where the water supply comes in? if not installing a hand valve will reduce the block pressure and probably solve your electric valve problem's. the engine doesnt need all the pressure the bowl makes and it wont effect the pump at all.

[Taylorman]

Im back. Snuck out of the office and ran the boat for a little while. Perfect. The new valves work great. Reduced the amount of water going to the headers and the opened and closed better than the other ones i had. These are a little more bling also since they are stainless instead of brass.

[Hemicbx]

Taylorman,
You're right, the flaw in my system is that the window swtch would need to operate in reverse. It would need to "open" contacts at 1500rpm. Of course we could get all carried away and put a DPDT relay after the window switch and before the solenoid coil, wire throug the normally closed side . . . Oh, that's just too much to go wrong . . . too much to potentially ruin a good day on the water!
I was just looking at it from solenoid energized time; trying to minimize it.
Later
Hemicbx

[LVjetboy]

Hemicbx, I think your idea on the NO solenoid is best, but actuation with a window switch is the problem. Either way, as long as the coil's rated for continuous duty all's cool.
jer