anyone on the boards fly jets????????

[502procharger]

well i just am finishing up my deal on a 1972 l-29 delfin trainer jet. i have had my pilots lic for about 4 years and only have flown small single engine prop planes like 150's 152's 172's and a few piper 140's and 160's. my probleme is i need 500hrs pic and i only have about 250 so i will be flying as much as i can to build those last 250hrs. what i am wondering is if i am better just buying a small 150 or something to build hrs then just re-sell it or just rent an aircraft. 250 hrs even at 50hr is 12,500, now that does include fuel and i dont have to pay for insurance but for like 5 k more i can buy a 150 with fresh annual. just wondering what is best to do. i have a great deal worked out with a semi local man who will provide flight training to me in exchange for me allowing him to use my l-29 for bi-annual's and check rides of coure i still have to pay for fuel jet A being $3/gal and this thing burning 150gph is not a cheep toy but not many people get to own and fly these jets so i dont mind.

[JustMVG]

Wish i was current, i have much envy for ya i gotta say, why buy when you can rent, unless you need another aircraft, you'll get the hours if you buy your own and do it whenever you want, but will you get back your outlay after you build up to what you need?
MVG

[Some Kind Of Monster]

I passed ground school but never logged any hours :( Expensive hobby! I head out to the airport once in awhile to dream.
Sweet Ride.. There is a local that flies an L-39 Albatros.. Very similar.
Will yours have the VC-150 or S-50 powerplant?
http://www.warbirdalley.com/images/L29.jpg

[SoCal_fun]

I owned a 69 C-150 for a few years (N60816). Dumped a bunch of money into it to keep it flying right. It was fun having it there to fly whenever and all, but I'd probably have been better off renting to build hours toward my IFR rating.
Wish I could get my hands on one of those jets. Be careful though, I lost a buddy who started flying at the same time I did in one of those. Crashed and burned on takeoff (fuel issue) with an instructor on board.
I switched to boats for now, it's a bit cheaper and a bit less dangerous (family and all). I miss flying though, almost everyday I think about when I will get back up.
Good luck!

[Jbb]

well i just am finishing up my deal on a 1972 l-29 delfin trainer jet. i have had my pilots lic for about 4 years and only have flown small single engine prop planes like 150's 152's 172's and a few piper 140's and 160's. my probleme is i need 500hrs pic and i only have about 250 so i will be flying as much as i can to build those last 250hrs. what i am wondering is if i am better just buying a small 150 or something to build hrs then just re-sell it or just rent an aircraft. 250 hrs even at 50hr is 12,500, now that does include fuel and i dont have to pay for insurance but for like 5 k more i can buy a 150 with fresh annual. just wondering what is best to do. i have a great deal worked out with a semi local man who will provide flight training to me in exchange for me allowing him to use my l-29 for bi-annual's and check rides of coure i still have to pay for fuel jet A being $3/gal and this thing burning 150gph is not a cheep toy but not many people get to own and fly these jets so i dont mind.
Unless you can wet lease ...in large hour blocks....a 152 or 172 cheap.....then you are always money ahead to buy a 152 with a fresh annual...fly it for the required hours and sell it ...lots of people have done it that way... :D

[SSTahoe]

Buy a 172 with the 180 hp conversion, fly it to get your hours you need then sell it to me for my flight school. Just make sure you get a really good pre-buy inspection best time is during the Annual Inspection, and it is also good to get another mechanic to look at the aircraft before you buy..

[rrrr]

I would go for a 172. Get a leaseback deal with a flight school to absorb some of the costs.

[Sleek-Jet]

You're going to need complex time as well. Look at buying/leasing a Piper Arrow or a Mooney. You can finance airplanes for 20 years, so your monthly payment won't be dink, fly the wings off it for 6 months then sell it when your done. If you buy a decent airplane, you're almost guaranteed to get your money back out of it, if not a little more in 6 months to a year.
If you buy, make sure you get something with mid-time motor, or perhaps a little less, so you won't be up against and engine overhaul when you go to sell. Use the time to go ahead and get your commercial and instrument ratings as well, the insurance companies will like to see that.
After all that is done, give me a call, I'd like to take a ride. :D

[Sleek-Jet]

Oh yeah, rental rates are pretty close to what it cost to own and operate an airplane. So while you might be able to run a 172 for 50 - 60 an hour for fuel and maintenance, the overhaul reserves, insurance, hanger/tie down, and payment is going to bring you equal with rental rates pretty quick.
A good rule of thumb is 3 times the cost of your hourly fuel burn. So a 172 would burn around 10 gal/hr x $3.00 hr = $30.00 x 3 = $90.00 hr for fuel and operating reserves. Most places out here rent 172's for between 80.00 and 100.00. Of course the more you fly the cheaper it gets an hour becuase your fixed (hanger tie down, insurance, and some maint) costs or diveded against more hours.
Check out block time rentals as well. A lot of places will give you a break on the hourly rate if you buy 50 or a 100 hours at a time.
But like I said before, get those other ratings. Why not, you need to fly anyways and it'll help you out down the road.
Good luck.

[502procharger]

sleek, i looked into 2 piper cherokee 140s, small 8gpg 4 seat aircraft. i flew one for about 20hrs and it was a very easy to fly. i found 2 localy both with about mid time one has just under 1000hrs smoh and the other has just over 1000smoh. both are cert ifr so i could use it to get my ifr cert. the issue is the year. one is a 68 and one is a 70. both have logs since new one has 3800ttsn and the othe rhas 4200ttsn airframe. I am going to look at and fly both this weekend. one is 30k asking price with fresh annual and the other is 36000 with an annual 2 months ago. i checked into insurance and i am looking at about 800yr tie down is 30 a month locally. i think i would be much better ahead buying something in this price range putting like 5k down and finance the rest over 10 yrs so my pmts are really low, fly it my 250 to 300hrs needed over the next 12 months and sell it. i cant imagine i would loose to much in a year. even if i bring it up to 1400hrs the motors are 2000tbo so it would still be ok to sell with 600hrs rem before oh is needed. anyways. i have flown some older aircraft like a late 60's 150 and 172 not sure of the excact years but they all flew well. any advise on buying an older aircraft. i would of course pay someone to do a pre purchase inspection.

[Sleek-Jet]

I wouldn't shy away from an older airplane. I owned a '59 182 and it was about the best airplane I've ever flown.
Things to look for in older airplanes in maintenance. Have someone go through the logbooks with a fine tooth comb. Make sure all the 337's have been completed. Corrosion is a big issue in older airplanes since most Cessna and Pipers came out of the factory with bare metal on the inside. Damage history isn't that big of a deal, just make sure the repairs were done right. Don't get star struck by new paint and a fancy interior job. They can hide alot of problems. Cosemetics can be taken care of, a corroded wing spar can't.
Have someone you trust do the prepurchase. I had the guys that were going to work on my airplane do the prepurchase, but they are the best mechanics in the area. Some people say get a third party to do one. One way is to split an annual inspection with the seller. Offer to pay for either the parts required or the labor, but require that you pick the shop. Lots of aircraft sales outfits will do pencil whip annuals as a selling point when all they have done is change the oil and clean the windows.
Ask if the power plant is on oil analysis.
After you take the test flight, crawl under the airplane and look at the belly. If it's covered in oil, the motor might not be in as good of shape as advertised.
How old is the overhaul?? Out here in the dry west, engines go decades without needing an overhaul because of the dry climate. Wetter climates take their toll on engine internals.
Use AOPA's escrow and title search service, it's money well spent.
Unless you buy a brand new airplane, you're going to have to take the same precautions.
Finally, an old FBO opperator told me the best indication of an airplane's condition is the glass. If it's crazed, milky, or has recently been replaced, take a long hard look at the ship.

[bgchuby]

if anybody tells you to buy the jet without LOTS of complex time already logged make sure that you have good life insurance. I am rated in citation jets and fly king airs. You need hundreds of hours in complex singles and light twins before you even think about flying solo in the jet. The jet is a very complex aircraft and yes flying it when everything is working may be semi-easy. But when you have an inflight problem thats where hours under your belt with come to help you. It is your life but you need more complex hours in medium size private planes before tackling a military jet. Even if it is a trainer

[502procharger]

bg, i hear what you are saying but there is a huge diff between a citation jet and this l-29 trainer. the l-29 was the turbine replacement for the yak-52, it has all the same charicteristics. this trainer flies more like a 172, then a complex jet such as the citation or king air. it has low stall speed, st wing and is really an easy aircraft to fly. i work with turbines on a regular basis for ground use so i have knowledge about the systems and inspection process. you can land the l29 at like 90kts. take off is only 1800 feet and landing even less. i know i need to build more time before i can get rated in the l-29 but thats why i have worked out the deal for the flight training in the aircraft in exchange for letting my trainer use it for bi-annuals and he pays ins. I look at it like a classic car. even if i fly it 5 times a year with a trainer it is still worth it to me. it has hot seats and if needed they would be used. The FAA does not even require complex training to get rated in the l-29 although i am sure i will spend some time in my buddies piper twin.

[Sleek-Jet]

Here's another thought as well. Instead of spending $30,000 on another airplane, plus the cost of flying it for 250 hours, why not have someone fly the Delfin with you for that amount of time??
You'd get two birds with one stone. First you'd have a couple hundred hours in type, and that is really more important than the amount of total time you've got. Second, you wouldn't have to worry about maintaning a second airplane or have the headaches of trying to sell it when you're done.
The biggest hurdle you're going to have is thinking as fast as the airplane. That's where those hours logged help you out. Even though it's a trainer, it's still a jet, and things can and will happen faster. Remember the old adage that judgment comes from experiance, and experiance comes from lack of judgment...