another 460 question

[OkieDave]

Several years ago, I heard that the late model EFI 460 heads could be ported to run superior to any of the early Ford castings due to the architecture of the exhaust port. They also had large combustion chambers to make for pump gas friendly compression. Does anyone on here have experience or knowledge on these heads?

[Squirtin Thunder]

Yes !!! :rollside:

[OkieDave]

Yes !!! :rollside:
enlighten me please.

[Squirtin Thunder]

Check your user CP
Jim :idea:

[hack job]

Several years ago, I heard that the late model EFI 460 heads could be ported to run superior to any of the early Ford castings due to the architecture of the exhaust port. They also had large combustion chambers to make for pump gas friendly compression. Does anyone on here have experience or knowledge on these heads?
i would check with lakesonly or 058 on this on they seem to know there stuff ;)

[Squirtin Thunder]

i would check with lakesonly or 058 on this on they seem to know there stuff ;)
:crossx: Well thanks pall !!!! :crossx:
Jim

[Norseman]

enlighten me please.
Lets keep it on the forum, I'm interested as well!!!!
Seems there is still a 460 laying in the garage and a complete set of FI for it.

[Squirtin Thunder]

Lets keep it on the forum, I'm interested as well!!!!
Seems there is still a 460 laying in the garage and a complete set of FI for it.
OK,
Those heads are very similar to the Edlbrock heads in shape. There is alot of work that it takes to make them match up to the aftermarket intakes. Also valve covers are limited unless you want grey painted ones. There is no air boss in them. They are alread unrestricked which is nice. So port work will not kill you. I have not yet done a set of these but do have a set that I have been planning. I don't think I will have to do any welding to get them to match up right as of yet. They have a lot of potential to be one of Fords best performance head in my eyes, but I can only see out of one right now.
It will be quite interesting to see what I can do with these heads. I would like to have some flow test #s after I am done with them just to ssee what I have acomplished out of a stock type cast piece.
Jim

[LakesOnly]

Several years ago, I heard that the late model EFI 460 heads could be ported to run superior to any of the early Ford castings due to the architecture of the exhaust port. They also had large combustion chambers to make for pump gas friendly compression. Does anyone on here have experience or knowledge on these heads?
The E7TE heads have great port architecture from the factory. The exhaust port (as cast) is better than any of the earlier castings and the intake of the F7TE is a little nicer than the E7TE. Combustion chamber volume is about that of a D3VE. Scott Johnston has been evaluating these heads for much of this year. Even though the ports are smaller on the fuelie heads (and a little bit different between the two castings), he has managed 330IN/220EX @ 28 on both castings. Not bad for the smaller port heads.
But to this day, the flow numbers of fully ported E & F7TE's are not up to the flow numbers of the fully ported earlier castings. For example, fully ported D0OE-R, early-style, and even D3 castings can outflow the fully ported E7TE's intake numbers. (The D3's may show less on the exhaust but they will still generate more HP.)
Where the E & F7TE's really shine is in the exhaust port flow numbers. Further, the good overall flow characteristics of both its intake and exhaust ports (IE flow ratio) make for a great, great street head.
Problem is, no-one at this time makes a carbureted intake for those heads...unless we intend to run injection, we're stuck.
LO

[LakesOnly]

OK,
Those heads are very similar to the Edlbrock heads in shape. There is alot of work that it takes to make them match up to the aftermarket intakes. Also valve covers are limited unless you want grey painted ones. There is no air boss in them. They are alread unrestricked which is nice. So port work will not kill you. I don't think I will have to do any welding to get them to match up right as of yet. They have a lot of potential to be one of Fords best performance head in my eyes, but I can only see out of one right now.
Jim
The EFI heads are nothing like the Edelbrock Performer heads.
The carbureted intakes won't fit the EFI head intakes. The ports of the carbureted intake hang below the EFI head's mating flange.
All of the non-EFI castings will outflow the EFI castings above .600 lift in a max effort application.
The EFI heads will eventually have their place in the performance market, but overall they are low on the performance food chain...
LO

[Blown 472]

That and the exhaust bolt pattern is not the same.

[LakesOnly]

Nor are the valve covers...
LO

[058]

Not much I can add to this thats already said.

[Squirtin Thunder]

OK,
Those heads are very similar to the Edlbrock heads in shape. There is alot of work that it takes to make them match up to the aftermarket intakes. Also valve covers are limited unless you want grey painted ones. There is no air boss in them. They are alread unrestricked which is nice. So port work will not kill you. I have not yet done a set of these but do have a set that I have been planning. I don't think I will have to do any welding to get them to match up right as of yet. They have a lot of potential to be one of Fords best performance head in my eyes, but I can only see out of one right now.
It will be quite interesting to see what I can do with these heads. I would like to have some flow test #s after I am done with them just to ssee what I have acomplished out of a stock type cast piece.
Jim
Paul please read what I wrote!!!!!
Look at the two head side by side and you will see a lot of simalarities.
Welding and altering intake port.

[Squirtin Thunder]

That and the exhaust bolt pattern is not the same.
I just messured that and they are exactly the same.

[Blown 472]

I just messured that and they are exactly the same.
Put a gasket from an early head up on it and see what lines up.

[OkieDave]

thanks for the replys fellas. I am contemplating what to use on my next 557. I have a spair set of D3's, an extra set of D1's and another set of DOO's that are sitting in the floor. This motor needs to use pump gas since I don't want to have to buy AV gas for a 23' jet boat. I want to keep the flat top pistons in the shortblock because I have spare pistons. also, anybody have any center-riser BBF exhaust manifolds laying around?

[Squirtin Thunder]

thanks for the replys fellas. I am contemplating what to use on my next 557. I have a spair set of D3's, an extra set of D1's and another set of DOO's that are sitting in the floor. This motor needs to use pump gas since I don't want to have to buy AV gas for a 23' jet boat. I want to keep the flat top pistons in the shortblock because I have spare pistons. also, anybody have any center-riser BBF exhaust manifolds laying around?
D0 heads will be the best for you app. If the combustion chambers are too small don't worry by unshrouding the valves you will lower the Compresion ratio.
Jim

[LakesOnly]

I am contemplating what to use on my next 557. I have a spare set of D3's, an extra set of D1's and another set of DOO's that are sitting in the floor. This motor needs to use pump gas since I don't want to have to buy AV gas for a 23' jet boat. I want to keep the flat top pistons in the shortblock because I have spare pistons.
You can forget pump gas Dave. That is, if you are adamant about keeping the flat-top pistons. Flattops on a 4.5" stroke 557 with D3's will put you at damn-near 11:1 w/o zero-decking, and those are the biggest chambers available to you. (D1VE heads would put you at 13.6:1 & SCJ's at 14.2:1) With the D3's, you'd still need to back timing down into the mid-twenties...which would make the motor quite a dog for the money and time invested. (I suppose you might run 92 pump gas at maybe 27*BTDC @ 3000.)
Also, 557 cubes is a lot of air to move and the higher you want to rev that low compression motor, the more difficulty it will have drawing that same mass of air into the engine efficiently. Sustained 5000 rpm with a low compression 557 calls for walking a real thin line (a carefully measured package) to meet all your needs.
Within your collection of cylinder heads immediately available to you, your best choices for 557 heads (in decending order) are:
D0OE-R
D1VE (assuming it is the D0VE style casting with the crew-in studs)
D3VE
Compression ratio would then be corrected by way of piston dish volume.
You really need the intake port cross-section of the SCJ heads to get air into that big engine. The intake port flow characteristices between the D1's and D3's are essentially the same (when all is said and done), and the exhaust flow characteristics is what puts the D3's in last place.
I am in the infancy stages of developing a D3-based "street stroker" head that would be for 514-533 motors, and even this max-effort D3 would be asked a lot from a 557. (It would work, but power would be over by 6000 rpm in most applications.)
If you absolutely insist on running those flat-tops and pump gas, then I guess use the D3's, but port them very, very well--both intake and exhaust. Use 2.19" intake and 1.76" exhaust valves. 557's need big cams to breathe and your cam selection is critical to maintain power & breathability through those heads at 5000 rpm on your engine. I am about to port some D3's myself. It's too bad you're not closer because I would not mind assisting you in setting up the ports for such a build...
Have you bought the rotating assembly yet? I think you'd be much better off with a lower comrpession 4.3 stroke crank (building a 533).
LO

[Squirtin Thunder]

Paul, :boxed:
Thats what I like to see !!! :notam:
Good job !!! :rollside:
Jim :yuk:
You can forget pump gas Dave. That is, if you are adamant about keeping the flat-top pistons. Flattops on a 4.5" stroke 557 with D3's will put you at damn-near 11:1 w/o zero-decking, and those are the biggest chambers available to you. (D1VE heads would put you at 13.6:1 & SCJ's at 14.2:1) With the D3's, you'd still need to back timing down into the mid-twenties...which would make the motor quite a dog for the money and time invested. (I suppose you might run 92 pump gas at maybe 27*BTDC @ 3000.)
Also, 557 cubes is a lot of air to move and the higher you want to rev that low compression motor, the more difficulty it will have drawing that same mass of air into the engine efficiently. Sustained 5000 rpm with a low compression 557 calls for walking a real thin line (a carefully measured package) to meet all your needs.
Within your collection of cylinder heads immediately available to you, your best choices for 557 heads (in decending order) are:
D0OE-R
D1VE (assuming it is the D0VE style casting with the crew-in studs)
D3VE
Compression ratio would then be corrected by way of piston dish volume.
You really need the intake port cross-section of the SCJ heads to get air into that big engine. The intake port flow characteristices between the D1's and D3's are essentially the same (when all is said and done), and the exhaust flow characteristics is what puts the D3's in last place.
I am in the infancy stages of developing a D3-based "street stroker" head that would be for 514-533 motors, and even this max-effort D3 would be asked a lot from a 557. (It would work, but power would be over by 6000 rpm in most applications.)
If you absolutely insist on running those flat-tops and pump gas, then I guess use the D3's, but port them very, very well--both intake and exhaust. Use 2.19" intake and 1.76" exhaust valves. 557's need big cams to breathe and your cam selection is critical to maintain power & breathability through those heads at 5000 rpm on your engine. I am about to port some D3's myself. It's too bad you're not closer because I would not mind assisting you in setting up the ports for such a build...
Have you bought the rotating assembly yet? I think you'd be much better off with a lower comrpession 4.3 stroke crank (building a 533).
LO

[OkieDave]

It is really great to have access to the knowledge of you guys! :D
The reason I want to keep the 4.5" stroke and flat top piston combo is that I have the same in two other boats and I love the torque. I didn't realize I was running so much compression. I intentionally run a large impellor to keep the rpm low. The one I want to do this time will see a 9.5" AT impellor. It is a big boat so it will not unload the impellor and break it like my cheyenne did. :confused: With a hydraulic cam and D3 heads, I doubt if it will turn 5000. If I have to use a little AV gas in the mix, so be it. :shift:
on another note, I began the teardown of my CJ headed 557. one broken valve spring, one water jacket leaking into an exhaust port, oil pump wont turn(haven't pulled the pan yet), sheared dist gear pin. and a shredded 9.5" impellor. :hammer2: when I put it back together, I'm thinking of using a AA impellor since I have a SS one but I'm wondering if the extra rpm will actually hurt power due to air flow limitations of the CJ heads. (it is a roller cam). The 9.5 impellor only allowed 5200 and the AA should be 600 rpm more. :confused:
your opinions are requested, thanks again. :cool: