454 or 460?

[Old Charger]

I need to replace the Olds 350 in my 21ft daycruiser.
I'm not a die hard Ford or Chevy person in particular, so which mill is setup better for jetting?

[Joker]

OH OH now you did it!!!
http://www.goldenplasma.f2s.com/forum/smilies/rolleyes05.gif [IMG]
[This message has been edited by Joker (edited July 12, 2001).]

[rivercrazy]

Set up correctly, both are good reliable engines. Chevy's are a little easier to hop up, as there are more performance parts available. As a result, I would lean toward the Chevy.
Just make sure you getting a good 4-bolt main block and good performance heads with your purchase. Stay away from 2 bolt mains or small oval (peanut) port heads.

[jusjetting]

What year is your boat? What brandis it? I would like to find a Daycruiser.

[Slick]

454, parts are easier to find and less expensive. Don't forget to look into GM Performance 454 Mag and 502 crate motors.

[Old Charger]

Man, I wish I could afford a crate motor! That'd be sweet. Looks like I'm stuck searching for a rebuildable 454.
My boat is a '77 Crusader "Monte Carlo". It has the Monte Carlo tag(looks like a Chevy emblem) on the dash. I can't figure out if this was from the factory or somebody's idea of "cool". :P
Anyone know why almost all the new factory boats come with BBCs? Is it because they are more supported by the aftermarket stuff?
[This message has been edited by Old Charger (edited July 12, 2001).]

[spectras only]

Charger,I have a Ford and a Chev in my rides.Choose the one the majority of your friends like best http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif,or you never here the end of pros and contras! Ford are a lot more expensive to build or upgrade [most of my friend's fathers were Chevy men and left an inprint on their sons brain,genetic enginering http://free.***boat.net/ubb/smile.gif ] so Chevys outnumber Ford in the ***boat/hotrod world,and more aftermarket companies formed for Chev.I like chev's for their ability to turn higher RPM's [ stock engines],but don't like their steep connecting rod angles.I like Ford's beefier crankshafts and rod journals and low RPM tourqe specs.So there you have it.I'm sure you started a bowtie vs blue oval debate here http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
[This message has been edited by spectras only (edited July 12, 2001).]

[mister460]

Don't do it! Not another BBC! Ford is the way to go. Seriously, Chev's are cheaper to build. Which one is better? If you want my opinion, just look at my name.

[froggystyle]

Shut up you... lol
Don't be scared of a two bolt main. The only difference between a two bolt and a four bolt is another set of holes tapped. If you are building a stockish motor, or mildly hot-rodded, a two bolt with "peanut" plug heads is just fine. If you can find a set, the ones with the number that ends in "049" are commonly regarded as the best torque/hp boat heads. If you decide to go silly in the future, the two bolt is the way to go there too. You can get splayed main caps for them, and have a much stronger bottom end than a stock four bolt. Do stick to a forged crank. You can tell these on inspection by a wide, ground off forging line beside the rod journals. If it is cast, there is a small, tight flash line from the casting, usually no more than 1/4". The forging grinding mark will be around 1/2-3/4" wide. Look for good rod bolts, they usually mean good rods. People rarely put 7/16" bolts in a crappy rod. These have a 5/8" nut I believe.
Any BBC will be able to get you 500 hp with nothing greater than an intake, carb and cam.
Some will get you a lot further with the same mods.
Fords are OK too, I guess... for a Ford anyway

[77charger]

1970 bbf 429.Great motor in my boat bought it at a junk yard for 60.00 complete rebuilt it,cammed it and the basic add ons total cost was about 300-350 worked great but required good fuel 100 or more.Now it needs some refreshing. but will be cheap to do.although chevy parts are more availible and do have better selection either way stick with the 429-460 or a bbc and you really cant go wrong.

[jaqquuuz]

Jeeezzzze everbody knows nothin beats a ???????????????????????????? what could it be??????????????????????????????????? Briggs and Stratton 5hp engine. Great gas milage never have to change the oil great low end tourque ( for cuttin those tall weeds ) and not very expensive to build. In fact you can get a crate motor for about 150.00 bucks. But seriously I dont think you would be dissapointed with the Chevy not that Im saying the ford isn't a good motor but I think you have alot more possibilites with the Chevy with the dollars than any other motor out there and I outta know I have a oldsssssssssssssmobile.

[Old Charger]

Hey guys, thanks for all the info. I guess if you wanna know something about jet boats, ask the jet boaters right?
Hey Froggy, I heard the are four bolts that have the inner splayed bolts and the outer standard vertical bolts? Sounds like the way to go. Heard of this?
Thanks for the info.

[spectras only]

Jaqquuuz, Briggs @ Stratton sucks http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif.I have a Coventry 2 cyl boxer marine engine,four stroke sidevalve model with a nice chromed bacon slicer that will connect to a two blade prop.It will blow away those BBC hydros going the opposite direction http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

[froggystyle]

Actually, I think the splayed jobs I have seen were the original two straight bolts in the middle, and two angled ones going into the block on the outside, with some funky-shaped caps. I guess this is the way to go for a bombproof bottom end, but have never done it personally. I have a four-bolt in mine, which I desired purely for the supercharger which puts a large stress on the crank nose.

[058]

Heres my .02 worth.....Fords need no steel crank or 4 bolt mains, get a set of DOVE-C heads with big valves [2.19/1.74] with some simple exhaust port work, a decent intake manifold and carb [850s work real good here] a cam and some free flowing exhaust and you have an easy 525-535 hp and a very broad torque curve that will make the Chevy look silly. The Ford will have a better torque curve for the jet application than the Chevy, the Chevy may have a slightly higher peak torque [at a higher rpm] than the Ford but not near as broad as the Ford. The only reason the Chevy is more popular than the Ford is Chevy tried harder than Ford to capture the marine market. Ford is in the business to sell cars and trucks...Chevy is in the market to sell everything it can including dumping parts on to the market for cheap. Now that I've pissed off all the Chevy owners....rebuttals?

[beached1]

Jet's like torque. I don't know much about building a 4 stroke. But If 058 says fords produce the broadest amount of torque accross the rpm range, I would lean towards a BBF. I have a BBC but I didn't know enought about it at the time of purchase. Hell still don't. I wish someone made a 350 cu in smoker. I'd be in heaven.

[beached1]

BTW, when I said smoker I meant two stroke. Just in case some of you were thinkin, "the hell? If you want to put a 350 small block chevy in your pile then do it. Dumbass."

[rivercrazy]

Yea jet boats like torque but they are not fussy about low end torque. They like as much high end HP and torque you can throw at them. The impeller loads the engine more at higher rpm. Thats why!

[rivercrazy]

Oh and by the way. If you want to spend alot more money on a ford than a chevy to get basically equal performance, by all means drop those greenbacks

[058]

Rivercrazy, you need check prices on Ford parts, they are as cheap as the Chevy, unless you are looking for aftermarket cranks, thats about the only area that Chevy has Ford beat on pricing. And as I stated Fords do not need steel cranks anyway.

[77charger]

Originally posted by 058:
Heres my .02 worth.....Fords need no steel crank or 4 bolt mains, get a set of DOVE-C heads with big valves [2.19/1.74] with some simple exhaust port work, a decent intake manifold and carb [850s work real good here] a cam and some free flowing exhaust and you have an easy 525-535 hp and a very broad torque curve that will make the Chevy look silly. The Ford will have a better torque curve for the jet application than the Chevy, the Chevy may have a slightly higher peak torque [at a higher rpm] than the Ford but not near as broad as the Ford. The only reason the Chevy is more popular than the Ford is Chevy tried harder than Ford to capture the marine market. Ford is in the business to sell cars and trucks...Chevy is in the market to sell everything it can including dumping parts on to the market for cheap. Now that I've pissed off all the Chevy owners....rebuttals?
simply said the ford cranks are very strong and the dove heads are great thats what i run plus cam,intake,headers.etc.Alot of blocks were manufactured in peru or something like that that had a high content of some mineral that made the blocks very strong.(read in hb a couple of years ago)

[MoJetBoPar]

Not that anybody would care, but I run a Mopar big block!
Since I'm into that brand for my street/strip car and have 5 440's in storage it's a retro thing for me.
It's OK to me to be the only guy running an off brand and on the occasion that I actually outrun someone it's that much sweeter.

[Cas42]

Find On River Drifting
'nough said http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Bubbledeck]

Cas42 you know the old saying .. "Fords may knock rods, but Chevys throw 'em".
imo both are good motors but I have a 460 Ford in my 1976 boat that has never so much as had the heads off. So 'nough said there too.
If it were me changing motors I'd go for the one that was the cheapest that had all the marine gizmos on it. Any big block will be a major improvement over a small block in a day cruiser.

[GOT WATER ??]

First On Race Day!!!!!!!!!

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Bubbledeck:
imo both are good
So what you're sayin' is you go both ways?
http://www.goldenplasma.f2s.com/forum/smilies/happy28.gif

[Bubbledeck]

no HH, what I was implying was that I'm a horsepower slut and will go with whichever is easiest to get ;-)

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Bubbledeck:
I'm a horsepower slut
Yeah, I heard that also- I think your picture was posted on that "Horsepower Honeys" porn site- was that you in the thong?
http://www.goldenplasma.f2s.com/forum/smilies/happy06.gif

[Bubbledeck]

what color was it?

[froggystyle]

Yeah, but he had the ford blue thong on with a hugger orange bowtie!

[Old Charger]

Hey guys, thanks for all the info.
Looks like I'll on the search for a 454 4 bolt to rebuild! Hopefully soon though, the wife is starting to mumble something about buying a house? House or motor? I know where my priorities are. You cant make yer house do 70 mph across the water!

[mister460]

Fords are the way to go for broad torque as was said. Chev's were made to rev and make horsepower. So pick your poison. Whatever you build, just remember:cubic inches cost cubic dollars! Oh yeah, any smallblock is great for marine use.................as an anchor!!

[mister460]

Fords are the way to go for broad torque as was said. Chev's were made to rev and make horsepower. So pick your poison. Whatever you build, just remember:cubic inches cost cubic dollars! Oh yeah, any smallblock is great for marine use.................as an anchor!! Froggy is also right about the 4-bolts. If you want a 4-bolt, get the Milodon splayed caps and convert a 2-bolt. Stock 4-bolts are weaker than a 2-bolt with studs cause of the two extra holes drilled in the main web. But the splayed caps pull at different angles so they are much stronger. And try and find a stock 4-bolt BB Ford or Chevy. They are out there but few and far between. Take it easy guys and when your Chev's run me down the lake, I'll tow you back with my Ford! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gif

[JET BUG]

hey mr460 i am with you ive seen fords so good they push chevys on the water with a piece of rope.you know the saying wanna go cheap go chevy wanna go fast go ford.
buy the way mr460 got your email,thanks been off for a few days.