HELP!!! Glen Canyon Dam Flush

[Mardonzi]

The Bureau of Reclamation, in thier infinate wisdom has decided that the Colorado River is in need of a beach rebuild. Evidently, they seem to have forgotten about the present state of the Southwestern lake levels caused by the drought. Right now, flows are at approximately 8,000 c.f.s for both inflow and outflow so the levels have held fairly constant for the past 6 weeks.
In a couple of weeks, the B.O.R. plans on increasing flows for a one week period of time. They are planning on peaking the flows at OVER 41,000 C.F.S. !! This will drop the level of the lake over a 3 day period over 3 feet.
The local B.O.R. office has been swamped with phone calls protesting this and decided last week that the only vehicle for protest is written correspondence. Of course, the closing date for this is this Friday at 4 p.m. In other words, the only true tool we have to keep this from happening until the water conditions are better is to email these clowns. The address for this is DKUBLY@UC.USBR.GOV
I realize that most of you don't frequent Lake Powell, but remember, If it can happen here, it can happen at Mead, Mohave, Parker, etc...
Your help is appreciated.

[Debbolas]

I can't believe they are doing this...........have they been to Lake Powell?
There is a fricken sand bar over by Lone Rock!
OMG!!!
When we stayed there for a week, the water level went down ONE FOOT!
Think about the size of the shoreline of that lake, and how much water ONE FOOT is....
I'm writing!!! :hammerhea

[Dr. Eagle]

Once again, our government in action. I have often wondered where these public servants were when common sense was doled out... :lightsabe

[hugh jascock]

there is good in everything and even though powell will drop 3ft mead will go up as a result also. pray for snowpack this winter to replace what is going down river :) god knows those fokkin kayaker's need sandy beachs!

[Debbolas]

You! ;)

[Mrs CP 19]

Okay, just sent a message to the listed address...hope it helps. Jill

[Dr. Eagle]

there is good in everything and even though powell will drop 3ft mead will go up as a result also. pray for snowpack this winter to replace what is going down river :) god knows those fokkin kayaker's need sandy beachs!
AHA! You hit it on the head! It's a Kayak Conspiracy. They want the lake all to themselves... :eat:

[Debbolas]

AHA! You hit it on the head! It's a Kayak Conspiracy. They want the lake all to themselves... :eat:
Is it me? or is the Kayak Conspiracy Hugh Jascock talking like the folks in the movie "Fargo"

[Dr. Eagle]

Is it me? or is the Kayak Conspiracy Hugh Jascock talking like the folks in the movie "Fargo"
Well... that'd be a hoot... :supp:

[Debbolas]

Oh, for sure now, lets not hijack this young mans post, so as not to be helpful to the cause, don't ya know...... :wink:
everyone write letters!! :skull:

[Mardonzi]

Oh, for sure now, lets not hijack this young mans post, so as not to be helpful to the cause, don't ya know...... :wink:
everyone write letters!! :skull:
Hijack away,, I'm not a thread nazi,,,, ( and thanks for the young man comment... :cool: )

[hugh jascock]

Is it me? or is the Kayak Conspiracy Hugh Jascock talking like the folks in the movie "Fargo"
i love it when the teacher types naughty words :supp: hopefully the water level in powell will be up in the springtime and all will be good. :clover:

[Debbolas]

wow. . .
your a "glass is half full" kind of guy, aren't ya?! :D

[hugh jascock]

wow. . .
your a "glass is half full" kind of guy, aren't ya?! :D
the optimist say's "the glass is half full"
the pessimist(sp) say's "the glass is half empty"
the realist(me) say's "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be" :wink:

[Debbolas]

oh, Hugh (you) :D

[Outnumbered]

Just sent an e-mail and copied the original post from this thread into my outlook so I can forward it via e-mail like a chain letter type of deal. If we all do the same, maybe this will pick up a few more e-mails.
OL

[Dr. Eagle]

the optimist say's "the glass is half full"
the pessimist(sp) say's "the glass is half empty"
the realist(me) say's "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be" :wink:
And when it is not slow
and not fast
it is Half fast :D

[BigDogIvan]

Thay want to do this again!!! The tree huggers did this a couple years ago to create beaches and to help the fish hatchery. Screwthem!!! There doing what has been reported and that is to drain Powell. They can kiss my ever loving nature a$$. if there is not a decent snow in the mid west powell will be gone and those that live in Page will be out of a job. Doing this will insure Powell to be history in just a few years.
Save a tree and Shoot the Hugger!!!! :-)
Just me Little O'l @ bits Worth
BD

[CrazyHippy]

the optimist say's "the glass is half full"
the pessimist(sp) say's "the glass is half empty"
the realist(me) say's "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be" :wink:
Hey... I ordered a Cheeseburger
BJ(fired off a letter)H

[AMC-Nut]

Hey All,
Just my $0.02 everyone commenting on this subject should read Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner and then post up all you want. Really Lake Powell probably shouldn't even be there. You all blame the board of reclamation and their infinite wisdom, well it was them who built the damn dam. You can't have it both ways, you either like the board or you don't. The damn currently isn't even generating electrical power since there isn't enough water weight to power the generators, my brother works for the power company. I think we should just plow all the land around the lake after all "The rain will follow the plow!", LOL!
Ya, Ya, I know you will all most likely call me a commie bastard but read the stinking book and no I don't drive a honda Civic. I own three cars/trucks and a boat and they all have v8's in them (3/4 have big blocks in them). My great granpa was 100% Navajo and he watched all the irrigation stuff get built and had me read the book when it first came out.

[BajaMike]

The original notice I read on this said that they were going to hold water back for several weeks before the 'big flush' so the water level at Lake Powell would not be effected.
:argue: ???

[Sleek-Jet]

Thay want to do this again!!! The tree huggers did this a couple years ago to create beaches and to help the fish hatchery. Screwthem!!! There doing what has been reported and that is to drain Powell. They can kiss my ever loving nature a$$. if there is not a decent snow in the mid west powell will be gone and those that live in Page will be out of a job. Doing this will insure Powell to be history in just a few years.
Save a tree and Shoot the Hugger!!!! :-)
Just me Little O'l @ bits Worth
BD
OK, I want everyone to get a map out and look at Colorado and Wyoming. See the little dotted line that runs north and south along the Rocky Mountains?? That's called the Continental Divide. All of the precipitation that falls on the west side of that line flows to the Pacific. Along the way it get's damed up several times, one of which is Lake Powell.
What's my point?? The next time you see on the news that Denver and the front range of Colorado is getting pounded by snow, I want everyone to realize that it will have no impact what so ever on the level of the lakes in the Colorado River drainage...
Geogrophy lesson completed.
And before someone says that it snows on both side of a mountain, well, no it doesn't. The large storms that affect Denver are cuased by what's called an upslope condition. The low pressure has to move past the area and then pull moisture up from the Southeast. The west side of the rockies weather is influenced more by the flow of moisture out of the Southwest and Northwest. Those storms usually bump up against the mountains and peter out before getting to the front range. But you don't here that on the news.

[Sleek-Jet]

Hey All,
Just my $0.02 everyone commenting on this subject should read Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner and then post up all you want. Really Lake Powell probably shouldn't even be there. You all blame the board of reclamation and their infinite wisdom, well it was them who built the damn dam. You can't have it both ways, you either like the board or you don't. The damn currently isn't even generating electrical power since there isn't enough water weight to power the generators, my brother works for the power company. I think we should just plow all the land around the lake after all "The rain will follow the plow!", LOL!
Ya, Ya, I know you will all most likely call me a commie bastard but read the stinking book and no I don't drive a honda Civic. I own three cars/trucks and a boat and they all have v8's in them (3/4 have big blocks in them). My great granpa was 100% Navajo and he watched all the irrigation stuff get built and had me read the book when it first came out.
I believe you said you live in Phoenix?? OK, how do you think you're life would be affected without up-stream water storage. "Cadillac Desert" is a long op-ed piece, one mans opinion.
I would also like to hear how the water from Lake Powell is used to irrigate Navajo land??
No attacks, just asking.

[Dr. Eagle]

I think I remember reading that Cadillac Desert is Michael Moore's latest film masterpiece soon to hit the theaters near you. (just kidding, but plausable)
And yes you can have it both ways. The fact that I support the dam being built, and that I dislike how the Bureau of Reclamation operates it have nothing to do with each other. I don't need to agree with their priorities, but I do need to understand them. I honestly don't know enough about what they are trying to accomplish to be overly critical other than to think it might be better done when there is an abundance of water.
I am glad that Folsom Dam is there and I often dislike the way that the Bureau operates the dam. I understand that Folsom Dam was built primarily for flood control and secondarily for water storage and a lower tier use is recreation. So I dislike the way it is operated and the fact that they often get it wrong (for recreational use), they are still meeting the prime directive keeping the valley safe.
Regardless, hoisting one publication as a sort of bible that explains all is dangerous... Just my .02

[AMC-Nut]

"I think I remember reading that Cadillac Desert is Michael Moore's latest film masterpiece soon to hit the theaters near you. (just kidding, but plausable)"
I was waiting for this, actually if you look at closely the dams in America are in my opinion the biggest example of Socialism in this country there ever was. The fact the it took the federal government to build the dam is my point. The good old American Knowhow of Capitalism could not build the dams or settle the west, instead it costs about $14.63 on a annual adjusted rate per cubic foot of water that is used for irrigation and we (the taxpapers) recieve approximately $0.78 a cubic foot in return, per the 2002 congressional research project on the Western Water Act. With that $0.78 we are suppose to pay for the initial construction of the dam which per law is interest free. Sounds like a losing proposal to me, but I'm not very good at math.
As for Navajo land, they irrigate very little of it, and what they do irrigate they use for food, with little commercial gain. While irrigation was historically used to some extent by the peoples of the Colorado River Valley it was the Mormons who perfected irrigation, not the Navajo. It was also not the Navajo who chose the land they live on, I believe they were living elsewhere before and didn't specifically rely on irrigation as a whole.
Flood control is a joke and is not necessary, in fact the people of the west are now at a greater safety risk than they ever were from a free flowing Colorado River, ever hear of the Johnstown Flood, if not you should read about it!
As for me, yes I live in the Phoenix Valley and and work as a Realtor and Real Estate Appraiser so I do take advantage of the lake and the Arizona Canal Project but that doesn't mean that it should be there. When it all boils down it comes to MONEY.
I am done with this post but will continue to read, I don't want to make anyone mad at me.
Ryan

[Jordy]

While irrigation was historically used to some extent by the peoples of the Colorado River Valley it was the Mormons who perfected irrigation, not the Navajo.
Unless you're talking about the Mormons in the Colorado River Valley and irritation, I mean irrigation, I'm going to have to disagree.
When the Mormons rolled into Mesa the irrigation system was pretty well set into place by tribes that were on living on the land (Papago aka Tohono Odham and the Pimas), and by some that disappeared years before the Mormon settlers ever showed up (Hohokam) in the Metro-Phoenix area. I also don't recall ever seeing anything about the Navajo being anywhere other than the NE part of Arizona. Again, I could be wrong as it's been a while since I've been to school.
The Hohokam get credit for most of the irrigation system in the East Valley, the Mormons just built on their ideas but utilized most of a system that was already set in place.
http://www.waterhistory.org/histories/hohokam/
This is what remains of an ancient Hohokam canal. There is a park in Mesa called the Park of the Canals that has a bunch of abandoned canals and ditches running through it that were originally built by the Hohokam.
http://www.waterhistory.org/histories/hohokam/hohokam2.jpg

[Sleek-Jet]

As for Navajo land, they irrigate very little of it, and what they do irrigate they use for food, with little commercial gain. While irrigation was historically used to some extent by the peoples of the Colorado River Valley it was the Mormons who perfected irrigation, not the Navajo. It was also not the Navajo who chose the land they live on, I believe they were living elsewhere before and didn't specifically rely on irrigation as a whole
Do a little research on the NAPI project in New Mexico, owned and operated by the Navajo Indian tribe. No the Navajo's didn't bring irrigation to the Southwest, but they sure are making money on it. All of that water comes from treaty water rights on the San Juan River.
Flood control is a joke and is not necessary, in fact the people of the west are now at a greater safety risk than they ever were from a free flowing Colorado River, ever hear of the Johnstown Flood, if not you should read about it!
Ask all the people living in the Imperial Valley about that. The Salton Sea was created by the Colorado River in the early 1900's, but you probably knew that. I guess with the Johnstown referance you are saying that out dams in the West are in poor repair and in danger of breaching. I would really like to see an objective report on the subject.
As for me, yes I live in the Phoenix Valley and and work as a Realtor and Real Estate Appraiser so I do take advantage of the lake and the Arizona Canal Project but that doesn't mean that it should be there. When it all boils down it comes to MONEY.
You know what they say, if you aren't part of the problem... You openly state that you make money off real estate in Phoenix, yet you want to take vital water storage away from it. The fact of the matter is that people live in the Southwestern United States. People and industry need water. Funny thing about water though, it doesn't stay in one place. Dams are the only way we can harness the water. You can't have it both ways.
As far as the money angle, the loans and bonds for the construction of Glenn Canyon Dam will be paid back by 2006, so it will essentially be "paid off". Only the enviro-lobby could come up with the logic of now that it's paid for, let's de-commission it.
I too have Indian ancestry (Jicarilla Apache) and my family has lived and worked in the Southwest pretty close to 5 generations now. This is my home.
And finally, what I have learned from being around the drain the lake folks is this; most of the really aren't upset over the daming of the rivers and flooding of the canyon's on an enviromental level (even though that's the angle they use). No, they are more upset over the recreation that takes place on the water created by the dams, and the fact they can't use the canyons for their form of recreation. AMC-Nut, you're right, it is about money. You can draw the line directly from lake draining to eco-tourism. We (boaters, sport fisherman, ect...) get to enjoy these areas of the country and the back country types don't like the way we do it.
Don't take my comments as me being mad at you, I enjoy differing opinions, but the enviro-lobby has an ulterior motive, just as everyone else.

[AMC-Nut]

[QUOTE=Sleek-Jet]Do a little research on the NAPI project in New Mexico, owned and operated by the Navajo Indian tribe. No the Navajo's didn't bring irrigation to the Southwest, but they sure are making money on it. All of that water comes from treaty water rights on the San Juan River.
My main point is when you and your people are forced to live in an area that is almost worthless you make the best of what you have. While you are completly correcto about the Colordado River Valley People irrigation the Mormons were the first people to successfully irrigate the land and stay on the land, Colorado River Valley People couldn't make it work and died. Yes, I know there are many other factors that lead to their end but I am sure water was one of them.
Ask all the people living in the Imperial Valley about that. The Salton Sea was created by the Colorado River in the early 1900's, but you probably knew that. I guess with the Johnstown referance you are saying that out dams in the West are in poor repair and in danger of breaching. I would really like to see an objective report on the subject.
My Point was that the people would be much safer if the damns were never built and flood control is a poor excuse for man's stupidity. My father owns a lot of land in IL that borders the Mississippi River and is actually paid by the government not to farm it, although it has always been common sense not to farm it for him.
You know what they say, if you aren't part of the problem... You openly state that you make money off real estate in Phoenix, yet you want to take vital water storage away from it. The fact of the matter is that people live in the Southwestern United States. People and industry need water. Funny thing about water though, it doesn't stay in one place. Dams are the only way we can harness the water. You can't have it both ways.
Yes, I am part of the problem. There are other more effective ways of using the water, like putting it back into the aquafir (however you spell it). What about evaporation??
As far as the money angle, the loans and bonds for the construction of Glenn Canyon Dam will be paid back by 2006, so it will essentially be "paid off". Only the enviro-lobby could come up with the logic of now that it's paid for, let's de-commission it.
Yes it is planned to paid for in 2006, but that doesn't not include any, I say ANY! What about that?? What about the farmers down here growing alfalfa and pay pennies for the water they use (Can you say subsidized??)
I MIGHT ALSO POINT OUT THAT I OWN A 40% interest in house boat on Powell and go there every chance that I get. This one of the reasons I want a boat with a big gas tank. I AM NOT A DRAIN THE LAKE GUY. I do support the flushing of the canyon though. I used to work for Western River Expeditions (CAN YOU SAY MONEY) and have seen the canyon before and after and it's a world of differance! WHAT I REALLY WANT PEOPLE TO DO IS TO EDUCATE THEMSELVES before the sky falls.
Sleek Craft, I dig your comments by the way!

[Mardonzi]

The comment was made earlier that the flush is necessary, which it is to move sediment that builds up in the confluence of the Paria, Waterholes, Little Colorado, and other side canyons. My main issue is the timing. The Western States water user gurus just had a conference a few months back and agreed to lower the outflows due to the drought and now, suddenly, in a matter of 2 weeks, that has changed. It would seem more realistic to wait for a few more months to see what sort of precipitation falls to replenish the water supplies then to jump the gun and flush right now.
On a side note, the Grand Canyon Institute is actually opposed to this scheduled mass release. Their stand is that it is a repeat of what they consider a failed experiment from 1996, which is the last time the B.O.R. did this... kinda of funny, the Eviro-crowd is in agreement with a boating community..

[AMC-Nut]

Hey Mardonzi,
What kind of boat do you have and do you keep it in a slip? I was up at Bullfrog a couple of weeks ago and saw a Pinzquaer 6x6 being rented out at $50 a pop to boaters to help them get their boats in and out of the water. The ramp is approximately 100 yards out of the water and it's about another 30 yards past the ramp in "soft stuff". Where do you live and what are the ramps looking like. If could I think it would be cool to see some pictures!

[Misogynist]

My understanding of why the BLM "flushes" isn't primarily to replenish sand... or remove sediment... but to flush out eggs and spawn from unwanted fish below Glen Canyon Dam... Now... when they are supposed to do that... I don't remember. I was told this information by a consessionaire that works on Powell. How much of it is true... I don't know. I wish they would keep more of the water up in Powell than what they release. Too bad for us boaters that the Sierra Club in the early 60's put a halt to dam building on the Colorado.. or there would have been reservoirs in the Grand Canyon... How cool would that have been?... I think there were at least two more dams planned along the Colorado to be built after Glen Canyon Dam. :supp:

[AMC-Nut]

Women hater huh? Don't forget that there are tons of people every year that do a differant kind of boating down the colorado, called rafting, LOL.

[Misogynist]

Women hater huh? Don't forget that there are tons of people every year that do a differant kind of boating down the colorado, called rafting, LOL.
Damn... somebody had a dictionary... :cool: ... Yeah... As far as rafters... let them portage around the dams......... :wink: I'm sure there are more people that drink Colorado river water than there are people that raft those same waters..... :hammer2: . I agree that there has to be some compromise. that is why the other dams were never built. :wink:

[Sleek-Jet]

My understanding of why the BLM "flushes" isn't primarily to replenish sand... or remove sediment... but to flush out eggs and spawn from unwanted fish below Glen Canyon Dam... Now... when they are supposed to do that... I don't remember. I was told this information by a consessionaire that works on Powell. How much of it is true... I don't know. I wish they would keep more of the water up in Powell than what they release. Too bad for us boaters that the Sierra Club in the early 60's put a halt to dam building on the Colorado.. or there would have been reservoirs in the Grand Canyon... How cool would that have been?... I think there were at least two more dams planned along the Colorado to be built after Glen Canyon Dam. :supp:
The B. of Rec. horse traded not building the Marble Canyon dam (below the Glenn Canyon site) to be able to build Glenn Canyon and fill what is now Lake Powell. That's one reason that the enviro's have such a hard on for the Glenn Canyon Dam, they feel they got duped by the gov't.

[Misogynist]

The B. of Rec. horse traded not building the Marble Canyon dam (below the Glenn Canyon site) to be able to build Glenn Canyon and fill what is now Lake Powell. That's one reason that the enviro's have such a hard on for the Glenn Canyon Dam, they feel they got duped by the gov't.
Their dupe.... our recreational heaven..... :) It's there now. Too late.

[Mardonzi]

Hey Mardonzi,
What kind of boat do you have and do you keep it in a slip? I was up at Bullfrog a couple of weeks ago and saw a Pinzquaer 6x6 being rented out at $50 a pop to boaters to help them get their boats in and out of the water. The ramp is approximately 100 yards out of the water and it's about another 30 yards past the ramp in "soft stuff". Where do you live and what are the ramps looking like. If could I think it would be cool to see some pictures!
We are slipped at Wahweap. The ramps there are in pretty good shape. This is due to there being asphalt from a road that was in place prior to the flooding and also the fact that the park service has been placing sections of the same material that the military uses for patching battle damaged runway over the soft spots. We launched the bro in laws 48 fter about a month ago without any problems.
As far as the flushing to wash trout eggs downstream, that is occassionally the reason for some of the smaller "flushes" but not for the ones of this magnitude. This one is supposed to mimic a "flash flood" from the era prior to the dams construction.

[jeepinscott]

Lake Powell and Mead have saved California, Nevada, and Arizona billions of dollars and a lot of suffering. Lake Powell is a reservoir and does not need to be full all the time. They have been delaying the wash for two years due to not enough sediment on the Paria River due to drought conditions there too.
Glen Canyon only produces minimal power to Page and the surrounding little communities, so that argument is pretty much un-substantiated. Now, water in Mead does matter for power because there is a little Generator there called Hoover damn, some of you may have heard of it. I control power from there.
The drought is thought to be the worst in 400 years. Thank someone that we as a 'socialist' nation decided to build these great reservoirs and have the water 'saved' for future use. A lot of decisions have to be made about water in the system, none of them easy nor benneficial to every user. Hopoefully we will get some precipitation on this side of the divide.

[AMC-Nut]

Or at least figure out Tesla's method to make it rain and for that matter make power.
I STILL THINK WE SHOULD JUST PLOW UP ALL THE LAND IN THE WEST SINCE THE RAIN WILL FOLLOW THE PLOW!

[Sleek-Jet]

Or at least figure out Tesla's method to make it rain and for that matter make power.
Nikola Tesla invented AC alternators and along with Westinghouse developed the electric system as we have now. Edison was a proponent of DC.
So I guess, what's your point??

[AMC-Nut]

Sleek Jet,
I have my BS in EE from ASU and am a member of the Tesla Society. In Tesla's paper's he said he could control the weather, thus accounting for the freak storms that he was supposedly responisible for on the eastern slope during some of his experiments. Edison copied from Tesla alot, don't get me started here, LOL. My main point was how we often don't listen to the guys who we don't want to hear, but instead follow the greenback. The Rain Follows The Plow says it all.
I still like your posts Sleek Jet, sorry I called you Sleek Craft before..

[Sleek-Jet]

Sleek Jet,
I have my BS in EE from ASU and am a member of the Tesla Society. In Tesla's paper's he said he could control the weather, thus accounting for the freak storms that he was supposedly responisible for on the eastern slope during some of his experiments. Edison copied from Tesla alot, don't get me started here, LOL. My main point was how we often don't listen to the guys who we don't want to hear, but instead follow the greenback. The Rain Follows The Plow says it all.
I still like your posts Sleek Jet, sorry I called you Sleek Craft before..
Oh god... you're an engineer. :D
I've been called worse. :)
I grew up just over the hill from the Ames powerplant, in Dolores. I didn't really know much about Tesla until I went to trade school. An interesting man to say the least.

[AMC-Nut]

Nope, not any more! After five years with Intel I said goodbye took a huge pay cut, currently part time again at ASU and running my own appraisal business. No more stinking engineering for me!

[It's Only Money]

I read in the Los Angeles Times (rag!) that the Dam flush is going to be made up by reduced "releases" in the winter months so that no net lowering of the lake will take place.
Here's the text of the article:
Flood Set for Grand Canyon
From Associated Press
FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. — A controlled flood at the Grand Canyon could be initiated this month, officials said Tuesday.
The Bureau of Reclamation wants to release extra water from Glen Canyon Dam beginning Nov. 21. If approved, the extra flow would run for 90 hours, stirring up an estimated 880,000 tons of sediment.
Officials first flooded the canyon in 1996 for 18 days to return some of the natural sediment along the Colorado River within the canyon.
Glen Canyon Dam keeps silt from being deposited, affecting the natural environment, scientists say. Before the construction of dams, which help secure water for the West, torrential floods shaped the river's ecosystem.
Barry Wirth, a spokesman for the bureau, said the right amount of sediment was available in the system to do the water release now. Two major October storms pushed silt and debris down the Paria River, a tributary to the Colorado.
Officials hope their simulated flood will aid river species including an endangered fish, the humpback chub.
Nikolai Ramsey of Flagstaff-based Grand Canyon Trust said flooding helped the environment. "It's about everything related to sediment, which benefits everything within the Grand Canyon," he said.
Native vegetation does better in flooding, and the waters can create habitat for spawning and rearing native fish.
The flood tentatively scheduled for Nov. 21 will be shorter than the one done in 1996 because scientists learned that the longer duration wasn't necessary, Wirth said.
The release from Glen Canyon Dam will not affect the total water in Lake Powell, which the dam created, because the flood will be offset by lower flows during other periods.
November is not a prime time for river rafters, and park officials will notify those that are running trips, said Leah McGinnis, management assistant at Grand Canyon National Park.
"We'll get the word out to them," she said.

[unleashed]

How about this Ideal. Lets divert the colorado again and have it flow into the Salton Sea thus returning it to a fresh water lake. Then none of us would have to drive to Havasu anymore to do our freshwater boating??? Plus we'll be close enough to Glamis to do both sports in one day! :D
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com) :crossx:

[Flyinbowtie]

AMC,
Interesting perspective you have.
I am still digesting your position that the dams in the in the western U.S. represent Socialism by the federal government.
Do you believe that since the fed paid for the interstate highway system, runs and maintains the air traffic control system that they are further examples of Socialism?
I would submit to you that today, to create a project like the Hoover Dam, Glen Canyon, Golden Gate Bridge, etc. the federal government is the only entity capable of even considering a project on these scales.
Why? Because the federal government is the only entity with the time and expertise to navigate the enormous beauracracy that they have created that roadblocks these projects. Any for-profit private sector corporation would be out of money and out of business long before the first shovel full of dirt was turned.
I think that speaks more to the crisis in our government than does the fact that major Public works projects in this country have traditionally been
done either by the fed or under the direction of the fed.
just my 02.
FBT

[Sherpa]

5 years at In-tel is just barely enough to get 1/2 way through the brain-wash
system.......
I've been here for 12........ I'm still fighting the urge to conduct meetings
for absolutely no apparent reason whatso-ever.
--Sherpa

[AMC-Nut]

One word for Flyinbowtie:
Halliburton

[AMC-Nut]

Sherpa,
I am waiting for RR to be finished so i can use the open door policy and then use one of my three pagers and my blackberry to schedule some more meetings. I am also doing some onsite training to help my RR while the rest of my team does all my work for me. I did close FAB 6, whoopee!

[Flyinbowtie]

One for you.
Whitewater.

[Flyinbowtie]

A few more...
Your years at Intel, mine, I guess I've spent too long working with, in, and for the good people that work in government (CA DOJ/BNE,FBI,DEA, etc.) to get rattled by the word "Halliburton" anymore than I get rattled by the word "Ford", or "General Motors"
Or any other buzzword for that matter. Doesn't change reality. Not one damn
:) bit.
FBT.

[AMC-Nut]

No dude, I mean Halliburton could build the damn dam, LOL! Alos the highways are maintained by the state, while the interstates were built for national defense. Big differance but just my opinion. Have you ever read the history of the settling of the west and the water problems? Just curious. Did you know that approx. 25% more water rights have been given out than what is actually there? I am just trying to invoke some though and research thats all!

[Flyinbowtie]

Provoking thougt is good, and as I said earlier, you're doin it...
Frankly, I don't even think one of those giant multi-national companies could do it.
I live in rural northern Ca., and am very familiar with the history of water issues up here. I followed the Auburn Dam Project very, very closely.
There is simply too much red tape involved in building anything these days , from a single family house to a dam. Un-elected government widget-inspectors with personal agendas, in agencies like BLM, activist judges and the Victim-of-the Week advocacy groups are making lawyers rich and people poor. Just my opion, ya know?
Highways, both state and interstate, in Ca., are maintained by a combination of fuel taxes and federal highway subsidies. The "National Defense Highways" are simply another example of the feds taking on a project too big for anybody else. Ike & Co realized what was needed, and found a way to do it that was palpable to all the politicos at the time.

[AzLakeLizard]

Here is an interesting Read!
http://www.usbr.gov/uc/envdocs/ea/gc/SuppEA-ltr.pdf

[77charger]

they get so much silt that builds against the dams floor that can cause a future problem also.flushing does help get rid of it.We go every year to powell for a week long vacation.Three feet over the winter time aint going to hurt much.IMO

[shueman]

This was done a few years ago. It has to do with the Grand Canyon and the need to generate some natural flood type surges through area, habitat, and stuff....