The great Wear Ring Debate

[WheelerDealer]

After going to Hi-Techperformance and looking at the "Ultimate Wear Ring" that Duane designed and brought to the market I personally thought it was the cat's meow. I am just curious why someone would choose to run the older style wear ring/insulator combo? By no means am I a pump expert nor would I ever claim to be, so I would like to hear what others think about the currently available wear ring set ups, which do you prefer, and why?

[Squirtin Thunder]

I have no idea !!!
I have a brand new stainless wear ring that was machined to my impeller By Jack@MPD.
Now I have been asked many time why I went that way all I can say is that is what Jack recomended for my app.
Jim

[WheelerDealer]

Did Jack at MPD discuss the different wear ring styles with you, or does he use stainless on everything? I know Jack is one of the best out there.

[Squirtin Thunder]

I asked him what he recomended.

[mud duck]

I believe Dominator pumps can/should use the wear rings made for them, with the extra large lip. Berkely pumps do not require the extra large lip. However, I have used HTP's Ultimate Wear Ring in both style pumps. :confused:

[Squirtin Thunder]

Well I just called Jack and the reson why he recomends the stainless is life. In the silty sandy river conditions the stainless just out lasts the other by far. He said that the deep lakes those plasic things work just fine.
So now you know !!!
Jim

[WheelerDealer]

Squirtin Thunder originally posted..
Well I just called Jack and the reson why he recomends the stainless is life. In the silty sandy river conditions the stainless just out lasts the other by far. He said that the deep lakes those plasic things work just fine.
Now that is service! S T got on the phone, called the man and got us an answer! Thanks!

[spectras only]

Back in the old days berkeley used non lipped S/S wear rings with insulator.The impellers wore out before the wear rings. Why they call it wear rings then :idea: :D .I use the bronze shouldered wear rings .It's cheaper than the impeller to replace . Just my opinion ;)

[Bense468]

I use the bronze as well. Heard the plastic ones don't hold up so well in blythe. Just depends on how often you want to tear her all down I guess.

[Squirtin Thunder]

Back in the old days berkeley used non lipped S/S wear rings with insulator.The impellers wore out before the wear rings. Why they call it wear rings then :idea: :D .I use the bronze shouldered wear rings .It's cheaper than the impeller to replace . Just my opinion ;)
Thats what I have now

[wet77]

I am at that point in the rebuild on my pump its a JG in a 21' eliminator, I think I am going to run a A/B cut impeller but wear ring type????
I am going to be running 750 to 800 hp to the pump :boxingguy

[spectras only]

The bronze wear ring would be fine with S/S impeller .

[Squirtin Thunder]

I am at that point in the rebuild on my pump its a JG in a 21' eliminator, I think I am going to run a A/B cut impeller but wear ring type????
I am going to be running 750 to 800 hp to the pump :boxingguy
Depends on the water clarity.
Jim

[1978 Rogers]

Are the bonze wear rings, tannish in color. When I had my pump rebuild the new wear ring was bronze in color and had a lip or shoulder that covered the front edge of the impeller. I wish I had a picture. Am I making any sense?

[Squirtin Thunder]

Are the bonze wear rings, tannish in color. When I had my pump rebuild the new wear ring was bronze in color and had a lip or shoulder that covered the front edge of the impeller. I wish I had a picture. Am I making any sense?
At least $ .02
Jim

[Jeanyus]

I used the ultimate wear ring, because it was easy for me to install. I put the pump together myself, and being a concrete guy, with limited mechanic skills, it jusst worked out better for me, and the pump seems to work great.

[Squirtin Thunder]

I used the ultimate wear ring, because it was easy for me to install. I put the pump together myself, and being a concrete guy, with limited mechanic skills, it jusst worked out better for me, and the pump seems to work great.
Hell yes it worked great it ran 78mph@5500rpms with you and 20gallons of gas totally cool !!!
Jim

[spectras only]

[QUOTE=1978 Rogers]Are the bronze wear rings, tannish in color. .The wear ring is almost the same colour as brass, the plastic insulator is tan or beige.

[ChetCapoli]

I use the bronze as well. Heard the plastic ones don't hold up so well in blythe. Just depends on how often you want to tear her all down I guess.
Wow what an interesting thread we have here. :D Now just what might be wrong with the water in blythe??? Wonder if its the same kinda water in my neck of the woods. Where's old slowy when we need him for support on this matter? He spins those rings thru sandbars at 6000rpm and with a little cleanup, good as new!
CHET

[pops1]

Wow what an interesting thread we have here. :D Now just what might be wrong with the water in blythe??? Wonder if its the same kinda water in my neck of the woods. Where's old slowy when we need him for support on this matter? He spins those rings thru sandbars at 6000rpm and with a little cleanup, good as new!
CHET
LOTS & LOTS OF SAND @ THE RIVER TO YOUR QUESTION CHET.
1 FUNCTION TO A NON-LIPPED WEAR RING-TO KEEP THE IMPELLER/SHAFT CENTERED.
2 FUNCTIONS TO A LIPPED WEAR RING- SAME AS 1 & STOP FORWARD MOTION OF THE SHAFT.
ITS WORLD FINALS WEEKEND! DAVE

[OkieDave]

1 FUNCTION TO A NON-LIPPED WEAR RING-TO KEEP THE IMPELLER/SHAFT CENTERED.
2 FUNCTIONS TO A LIPPED WEAR RING- SAME AS 1 & STOP FORWARD MOTION OF THE SHAFT.
:notam:
Isn't that what the thrust bearing and bowl bushing are for?

[sanger rat]

But you can't use a lipped wear ring with a inducer right? :confused:

[Jake W2]

The inducer goes infront of the imp.You can machine the shaft in front of the imp to get the tolerances really tight.You can all so cut the lip off the insulator to move the ware ring forward for a smoother transtion ect.When it is all said and done you will need to shim it to the tolerances you want to run.
Jake

[TIMINATOR]

I use an Aggressor SS impeller/bronze lipped type wear ring and an inducer, the hole shot is AWESOME! 725 HP on the motor, 950+ on the sauce. TIMINATOR

[Bense468]

Wow what an interesting thread we have here. :D Now just what might be wrong with the water in blythe??? Wonder if its the same kinda water in my neck of the woods. Where's old slowy when we need him for support on this matter? He spins those rings thru sandbars at 6000rpm and with a little cleanup, good as new!
CHET
Now that your here I am sure it will be real interesting :rolleyes:
By the way...you said with a little clean up good as new. Thats why I said depends on how much you want to rip it apart. :wink:

[Jet Hydro]

Where's old slowy when we need him for support on this matter? He spins those rings thru sandbars at 6000rpm and with a little cleanup, good as new!
CHET
you call me out Chet? Sorry I was busy motocross racing and haven't been on the board much. I have my Ideas and you have yours. I know what works and what don't. you just claim with showing no proof. I trashed my pump on the SJ a few weeks a go so right now I`m just in the planning stages of what I`m going to do this winter. Funny thing is the impeller is totally gone but there was still a ware ring in there....lol... go figure :argue:

[PC Rat]

I know what works and what don't.
impeller is totally gone
I guess that goes in the "what don't" pile???
Brian

[Jet Hydro]

Yep :D You don't buy a dominator impeller and put it in your old insert Berkley pump. :jawdrop:
Wont work very long and I have the proof. :D
I`m going to pay more attention on what impeller I`m handed next time.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/208P1020636.JPG

[Jake W2]

Shit that thing just needs a little clean up. :hammerhea
Jake

[Squirtin Thunder]

Yah OK !!!! :messedup:

[Jet Hydro]

Just for Chet here`s the ware ring
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/208P1020702-med.JPG

[Jet Hydro]

Jake it`s your man, If I see ya this winter I`ll bring it with me ;)

[Jake W2]

Only if it comes with the matching warering :D
Jake

[Jet Hydro]

Not a problem it`s pictured.....ROTFLMAO :cool:

[Jake W2]

That one is a little to nice for me but I do have one in the works hear is the latest pic semi finished.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/2006Berk_SS_semi-finished_fr.jpg
Don't be haten. :D
Jake

[Jet Hydro]

nice wanta trade? ;) mine`s been speed tested :)

[Jake W2]

Trade hell ,you'll need some cash along with mine wontch ya.
For real Jack has done alot of work on this thing.It was missing the lip infront of the blades,missing the sholder,had groves in the ware surface,we dont even want to talk about the home job on the blades them selves and has been cut to a B+ form an A.Got to love an SS.
Jake

[Jet Hydro]

yea, your right Jake, I`ll take $300 and your impeller ;)

[Jake W2]

Hell of a deal, I will leave rite now there is only 5 inches of snow on the ground,see you intime for some turkey and stuffing.
Jake

[WheelerDealer]

When I was at Hi-tech Duane showed me a new Aggressor imp. and it looked like the blades came all the way out to the lip. Jake what brand imp. is that in the picture?

[Jake W2]

It is a SS BERK.
Some guys mill the lip off to the blades on the Berks but I wanted it standerd length for set up reasons.
Jake

[ChetCapoli]

geez i've missed even more! shucks!
Niiiicccccceeeeee impeller slowy, even nicer "long distance" pic of the wear ring :rolleyes: How's the suction?? Impeller looking like that didnt do it to much good i'm sure. Let me guess a little cleanup of that aerospace wear ring and it's reusable right?? Cat be meowin all the way to the curb with that one boy.... sure that impeller was like a knife thru butter.
I'm really amazed being the super duper tuner wrench-n-pump-n-bottom designer do it yourselfer you didnt catch that sooner??? Seems you imply to blame that on someone else????
The old standby brass ring would have held up better in that case i'm sure. Would have given your suction at least half a chance. :D
your buddy,chet
Jake whats all that impeller work costing ya?? Looks from what you describe you were starting with nothing??

[Jake W2]

Chet I bought this imp from a board member that said it was in good condition,some peoples good condition differ, for 350 bucks.It could have been used like it was the ware surface was in useable tolerances it just had one of thoes 4 grove type jobs done to it.
It cost me 150 to have the front built back up and 400 for the sholder built back ,blades worked front and back,fixing and strenthenig and size cutting of back of it.Yea it was a total work over.(Disclaimer)these prices were for my imp it had been worked befor and some of that might of been able to be used or not.There all diffrent.
So when it is all said and done I will be in it for 900 bucks including the price I paid for it.As you can add it would have cost me 1200 for a new one then another 400 (depending what I wanted done) bucks to have it worked that totals 1600.Though it did not turn out to be as cheap as I intended it to be it will last longer than any magbroze or 6 or 7 alum.
Befor you have a chance to say it yes I know you can buy a SS used in great shape for 800 to 900 bucks.There you go Chet have a ball.
Also thoes are not the finished pics
Jake

[Jet Hydro]

Here ya go chet is that better????
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/208P1020702.JPG
I don't imply to blame that on anyone else, It`s my fault for not knowing that they were different. I thought they gave me the right impeller and I now know what to look for. Live and learn. :sleeping:
I bet I can reuse the old suction if I don't install a new intake and redo the bottom. It`s all in a matter of how much time I have this winter to play with the lake boat.
BTW.... Chet it still ran 72mph-GPS on the way back to the trailer :D

[Squirtin Thunder]

Chet I bought this imp from a board member that said it was in good condition,some peoples good condition differ, for 350 bucks.It could have been used like it was the ware surface was in useable tolerances it just had one of thoes 4 grove type jobs done to it.
It cost me 150 to have the front built back up and 400 for the sholder built back ,blades worked front and back,fixing and strenthenig and size cutting of back of it.Yea it was a total work over.(Disclaimer)these prices were for my imp it had been worked befor and some of that might of been able to be used or not.There all diffrent.
So when it is all said and done I will be in it for 900 bucks including the price I paid for it.As you can add it would have cost me 1200 for a new one then another 400 (depending what I wanted done) bucks to have it worked that totals 1600.Though it did not turn out to be as cheap as I intended it to be it will last longer than any magbroze or 6 or 7 alum.
Befor you have a chance to say it yes I know you can buy a SS used in great shape for 800 to 900 bucks.There you go Chet have a ball.
Also thoes are not the finished pics
Jake
Jake here is a pic of mine before I gave it to Jack@MPD BTW it only cost me $45
Jim
BTW - I am not rubbing it in or anything :eek:

[Jake W2]

Jim that is an alum imp mine is SS huge diffrence in price.I had a Alum AB brandnew I bought from Mike W with a bronze ware ring for 150 that I had worked then sold when I got the SS.So I am not sure what you are trying to rub in? :confused:
Yours with the new ware ring would only be about 20 bucks cheaper than the 150 price and is not standered torlances.Not to rub it in. :D
Do you have any pics of it now?
Jake ;)

[Squirtin Thunder]

Yah your Right mine actually cost me with wear ring impeller shipping and all about $350.
Jim
I took some pics of it in the pump not sure how they will turn out.

[TRG]

spoke with jack on the detail price of a SS A impeller, he quoted me that it would be 50$hr. and at its worst he should have it dialed within 6-8 hrs, he said that it rarely goes to the full 8, but it depends on the casting!
and the inducer is like just under a hundie!
not a bad price considering the way it looks when you get it back in your hands, plus from what ive heard that he removes alot of weight from the impeller as well!
ive messed with grinding SS shit, and you could not pay me to grind on that stuff and get the type of finish that jack gets!
i have not seen what impellers look like when guthrie, brock or tom papp get finished with them but i bet they look alot better than i could make them! lol
just wanted to chime in here and share the info i recieved on wed.!
todd

[canuck1]

one run over a gravel bar and all that fine detailing don't meen shit

[Cs19]

one run over a gravel bar and all that fine detailing don't meen shit
Your right. A hammered leading edge sucks ass, even if the rest of the impeller is perfect.
but we (river hot rodders) dont intentionally run over gravel pits and rock bars. We keep our impellers perfect, and if they get dinged, they get repaired asap.
You cant expect to win DRAG races (not whitewater endurance racing) on the colorado river around here with a stock or damaged impeller, you just dont get the accleration you need to hang with the fast boats, as far as top speed, I dont think there is alot of difference, but acceleration is night and day from a stocker to a detailed impeller.
Since the whitewater boats dont rely on acceleration at all, and seeing how you guys destroy stuff left and right I see why you guys probably dont bother prepping your impellers real nice, although I know one of the fast guys in whitewater has some nicely prepped impellers.
Anyways there is a difference in what we need and what you guys need.

[Squirtin Thunder]

I second that after Jack@MPD did Steelcomps impeller the acceleration was rocket like compaired to what he had with the stock cavitator.
Jim

[canuck1]

Your right. A hammered leading edge sucks ass, even if the rest of the impeller is perfect.
but we (river hot rodders) dont intentionally run over gravel pits and rock bars. We keep our impellers perfect, and if they get dinged, they get repaired asap.
You cant expect to win DRAG races (not whitewater endurance racing) on the colorado river around here with a stock or damaged impeller, you just dont get the accleration you need to hang with the fast boats, as far as top speed, I dont think there is alot of difference, but acceleration is night and day from a stocker to a detailed impeller.
Since the whitewater boats dont rely on acceleration at all, and seeing how you guys destroy stuff left and right I see why you guys probably dont bother prepping your impellers real nice, although I know one of the fast guys in whitewater has some nicely prepped impellers.
Anyways there is a difference in what we need and what you guys need.
For the type of boating that I do acceleration is the key, not many try to run thru the gravel it just kinda happens. what is the real difference between a detailed and a non detailed imp as far as acceleration

[Cs19]

From the origonal post.
acceleration is night and day from a stocker to a detailed impeller.
It really is, the initial launch through the first part of the track is considerably better, even on a moderate weight boat, but especially in a light boat, i think top end is probably the same or close to it.
I should state this is only MY opinion based on what Ive seen,tried and what I personally believe and not just what I hear or am told, Id love to be proved wrong though.
I was under the impression you were a whitewater racer. Im sorry about that, or maybe you are and do need acceleration, I really dont know a thing about whitewater stuff.

[Squirtin Thunder]

From the origonal post.
It really is, the initial launch through the first part of the track is considerably better, even on a moderate weight boat, but especially in a light boat, i think top end is probably the same or close to it.
I should state this is only MY opinion based on what Ive seen,tried and what I personally believe and not just what I hear or am told, Id love to be proved wrong though.
I was under the impression you were a whitewater racer. Im sorry about that, or maybe you are and do need acceleration, I really dont know a thing about whitewater stuff.
cs19
Well Steelcomp should be able to agree with that finding. No more cavitating for him.
Jim

[canuck1]

From the origonal post.
I was under the impression you were a whitewater racer. Im sorry about that, or maybe you are and do need acceleration, I really dont know a thing about whitewater stuff.
Not a racer just like to have the options of going where I want weather it is the lake or a river. On the smaller rivers or channels its a shot from corner to corner or a quick blast to jump over something. Just trying to understand why someone would spend the money if the results are or are not a major difference

[Squirtin Thunder]

Steelcomp was turning about 6200rpms and running high 80s and cavitating like he was hitting nutral with stock Berk "B" after Jack@MPD detailed his impeller he had a non-cavitating launch and ran 92mph in the 11's at Ming.
Jim

[ChetCapoli]

From the origonal post.
.
I should state this is only MY opinion based on what Ive seen,tried and what I personally believe and not just what I hear or am told, Id love to be proved wrong though.
Just what have you really tried?? Once you were proved wrong, what would you do?? I find it hard to believe that you would actually switch to something that is not well liked if it worked better for you, bottom line.
CHET

[TRG]

Just what have you really tried?? Once you were proved wrong, what would you do?? I find it hard to believe that you would actually switch to something that is not well liked if it worked better for you, bottom line.
CHET
:messedup: kharma should be setting in on you any day now chief!...or maybe it already has and that is why e havent heard of you lately!
or its way cold up in the northeast and you have to do something to keep your fingertips warm!
just mindless chatter here carry on chit! lol :squiggle:

[Cs19]

I find it hard to believe that you would actually switch to something that is not well liked if it worked better for you, bottom line.
CHET
Fu*k off Chet. :D

[Squirtin Thunder]

Fu*k off Chet. :D
:crossx: :cry: :crossx:

[bp]

Just what have you really tried?? Once you were proved wrong, what would you do?? I find it hard to believe that you would actually switch to something that is not well liked if it worked better for you, bottom line.
CHET
i know this wasn't aimed at me, but being the open minded guy i am, this was just too deep and thought provoking to pass up. i really have no idea what your talking about with the first two questions. rather than fill up the entire this entire forum, lets first just agree that to get to several championships, i've done lots of testing, trying lots of things, documenting everything including the weather conditions at the time i tested.
the second part was what i though was interesting, from a philosophical thought provoking perspective. say you have a part, any part. nozzle, bowl, impeller, just pick something. you feel pretty good about your part. you've played with your part, sanded it, massaged it, stroked it, petted it, and you may have had a friend stroke and and pet it for you. it's served you well. it's not broke.
then someone comes along and says; "i see your part. i have something else that's not very well liked, but it -might- work better for you." at that point, do you wheel out the cash for this thing and dump the part that's not broken and that's served you well? or is it free? i worry about that free stuff.
thing is, i just cannot think of a good reason why i would want to change something just because. i've made close to 300 passes over the past 3 years, plus several trips to the lakes. my clearances and tolerances are spot on, impellers are perfect, everything checks out fine... i just can't fathom what i could go to that would give me better performance.
and chet, cs19 is running 9.10s with 700hp in a 19 daytona??? 700hp??? 19 daytona??? 9.10s??? these are like real honest to god numbers chet... real... earth to chet, 700hp, 19 daytona, 9.10s??? hullooooo??? anybody home?????? chet, i don't know if you have much of an understanding, if any, of what it takes to run in the low 9s. the thing is, they haven't used up all of the "well liked" stuff that's in the boat yet. there's more "well liked" stuff to try, to get the boat even quicker with the 700 hp. i don't know if any of that "not well liked" stuff will be able to keep the boat wherever it ends up. maybe there's somebody else with 800-900hp, and a whole pump full of "not well liked" stuff that can get out there and try to hang with cs19. maybe...

[Duane HTP]

Good point made BP. One thing for sure, Chit don't know dick about jet pumps. He's proved it over and over here on this forum.

[ChetCapoli]

lets first just agree that to get to several championships, i've done lots of testing, trying lots of things, documenting everything including the weather conditions at the time i tested.
Na...we cant agree here....simply because i dont think you've tried much of anything. You just follow a "blueprint" for success, do what your told and write the check. If you have done lots of testing, like i asked your buddy CS19, what have you tried?? Maybe i'll get better than a 3rd grade(F off) answer out of you??
the second part was what i though was interesting, from a philosophical thought provoking perspective. say you have a part, any part. nozzle, bowl, impeller, just pick something. you feel pretty good about your part. you've played with your part, sanded it, massaged it, stroked it, petted it, and you may have had a friend stroke and and pet it for you. it's served you well. it's not broke.
If it's not broke why fix or "improve" it possibly right? Not much of an "open" mind there. An "open" minded guy would look for something to improve no?? Are you bored yet after 3 yrs at the top in the same class??Just curious. :)
i worry about that free stuff.
guys with alot of money usually do, myself on the other hand will take the word FREE anytime.
thing is, i just cannot think of a good reason why i would want to change something just because. i've made close to 300 passes over the past 3 years, plus several trips to the lakes. my clearances and tolerances are spot on, impellers are perfect, everything checks out fine... i just can't fathom what i could go to that would give me better performance.
You just cant fathom....hmmmm.....must be part of your "open" minded philosophy.
and chet, cs19 is running 9.10s with 700hp in a 19 daytona??? 700hp??? 19 daytona??? 9.10s??? these are like real honest to god numbers chet... real... earth to chet, 700hp, 19 daytona, 9.10s??? hullooooo??? anybody home??????
Nope, not home....at the donut shop looking at the menu. :D
i don't know if any of that "not well liked" stuff will be able to keep the boat wherever it ends up. maybe there's somebody else with 800-900hp, and a whole pump full of "not well liked" stuff that can get out there and try to hang with cs19. maybe...
I know you dont know....again must be part of your "open" minded philosophy. :confused: Again, you just do what your told and write the check. So how did your boat run with an american turbine impeller or bowl if you dont mind tellin??? I'm sure you've tried them with subpar success so i was wondering what the results were. :D
CHET

[bp]

Na...we cant agree here....simply because i dont think you've tried much of anything. You just follow a "blueprint" for success, do what your told and write the check. If you have done lots of testing, like i asked your buddy CS19, what have you tried?? Maybe i'll get better than a 3rd grade(F off) answer out of you??
i continually test what i already have. i've tested numerous loaders, numerous shoe ride plate combinations, numerous shoe elevations, plate angles nozzle angles, nozzle diameters, nozzle angles, thrust lines. in all of these tests, i have made one change at a time to check results. and when there's an impeller change, a lot of this starts all over again. i'm not testing to prove anything, i'm testing to gather information. is there something you want to prove?
If it's not broke why fix or "improve" it possibly right? Not much of an "open" mind there. An "open" minded guy would look for something to improve no?? Are you bored yet after 3 yrs at the top in the same class??Just curious. :)
no, i'm not bored at all. have you ever actually raced in a sanctioned event? beyond that, have you ever won a sanctioned race? if that's boring to you, that's certainly ok. hangin' on a rope in front of a couple thousand people for a final elimination round, hearing the words "watch the lights" probably isn't something many people would get much enjoyment from. but, i still like it enough to keep trying. there's one person in my class that's been racing that class for 22 years. others 10-15 years.
i am most certainly looking at things to improve, it's just that you have no idea what those things are. but they have nothing to do with the pump, because there's nothing there to improve upon. you are too fixated on changing pump pieces, just to change pieces.
So how did your boat run with an american turbine impeller or bowl if you dont mind tellin??? I'm sure you've tried them with subpar success so i was wondering what the results were. :D
CHET
as i've asked you before, why would i try another impeller and start over again, or another bowl and start all over again. you seem to have a perception that you take this stuff, throw it on a boat, make one pass and presto, you have all the answers? it takes days. and no, i have not. and no, i do not intend to run off all over the country trying to find an at to test, because i know how to use what i have and what i have works. if i had an at, i would make sure it was perfect, and spend the weeks of testing and dialing in it would take to make IT work.
your not getting it chet. your fixated on a couple of pieces of aluminum or stainless, and true top performance goes way way beyond those things in ways you don't seem to comprehend.

[steelcomp]

Steelcomp was turning about 6200rpms and running high 80s and cavitating like he was hitting nutral with stock Berk "B" after Jack@MPD detailed his impeller he had a non-cavitating launch and ran 92mph in the 11's at Ming.
Jim
Jim is pretty close here...I was running between 6100 anad 6200 with a stock "B" cut Berk. Impller, probably around 95-97mph. I don't know how quick, though...never quarter miled it. After Jack did the impeller, my RPM dropped dramatically due to more efeciency, actually moving more water. It really made the impeller act more like an AB. At Ming, with nearly 4000' air, I was turning 5500, and running 11.30 s at 92.3. That's with a full interior, set up as a lake boat. I think if I were to be in the same air as when I was running 6200 (at my regular lake at 800') I would probably turn around 5700-5800, maybe 5900, which would put me right at 99-100 mph. The biggest change I noticed was out of the hole. The boat didn't do a big wheelie and go to 7200, it hooked up much better and just left a lot harder. I'm guessing it would have given me at least half a second improvement and maybe a mph or two on the top, still at less RPM.
steel

[Cs19]

Good point made BP. One thing for sure, Chit don't know dick about jet pumps. He's proved it over and over here on this forum.
Your right Duane. He doesnt know anything. He just repeats whatever Ted says.
BTW, all the tubine stuff was tested with data about 1 month ago, i was there. :D

[Squirtin Thunder]

Your right Duane. He doesnt know anything. He just repeats whatever Ted says.
BTW, all the tubine stuff was tested with data about 1 month ago, i was there. :D
And what are the results ????

[Cs19]

You will soon find out..Be patient

[Squirtin Thunder]

You will soon find out..Be patient
Very soon I hope !!!
Jim

[ChetCapoli]

i continually test what i already have. i've tested numerous loaders, numerous shoe ride plate combinations, numerous shoe elevations, plate angles nozzle angles, nozzle diameters, nozzle angles, thrust lines. in all of these tests, i have made one change at a time to check results. and when there's an impeller change, a lot of this starts all over again. i'm not testing to prove anything, i'm testing to gather information. is there something you want to prove?
Maybe there is...just like maybe there is something you want to prove when you put the cheerleader skirt on no??. What you mentioned above is just basic tuning 101 to make your boat go faster. You are doing nothing but "tuning" for your track conditions for the day. I beg to differ on the impeller change though....you can't really say if you go faster with an impeller change with the current "setup" you have, you need to start all over again can you??. Slower sure...faster i dont know why you would. I'd be willing to bet i was under my boat as much as you sit along side yours waxing it waiting for the next round.....
no, i'm not bored at all. have you ever actually raced in a sanctioned event? beyond that, have you ever won a sanctioned race? if that's boring to you, that's certainly ok. hangin' on a rope in front of a couple thousand people for a final elimination round, hearing the words "watch the lights" probably isn't something many people would get much enjoyment from. but, i still like it enough to keep trying. there's one person in my class that's been racing that class for 22 years. others 10-15 years.
Little bit of grass snowmobile drags is my extent, testing in trailer parks etc.... boat racing...nope. How many times have these guys of 10 and 22 years won your class if ever?? Figured after 3years straight,it would be time to step up, move on. Gets old beating on the same old guys over and over no?? Hell man, you can beat up on ol CS19..with his ...hullo....9.10et's and 700hp. :jawdrop:
i am most certainly looking at things to improve, it's just that you have no idea what those things are. but they have nothing to do with the pump, because there's nothing there to improve upon. you are too fixated on changing pump pieces, just to change pieces.
nothing to improve upon..hmmmm...open mind you say??? no idea....hmmm..i know it has to be part of the 'blueprint" for sure. Again, without trying different "aluminum or stainless" how do you know this?? I could see if you tried it all, my point would be mute...but i just dont read anywhere of the different things you have tried. So again, HOW DO YOU KNOW?
as i've asked you before, why would i try another impeller and start over again, or another bowl and start all over again.
As i will ask you mr. openminded, why not? Are you afraid or something? How are you so sure you have to "start all over again"?? You remind me of HBJet with his, "it's all been tried and thats all you need to know" philosophy. Must be your the one who has tried it all???
you seem to have a perception that you take this stuff, throw it on a boat, make one pass and presto, you have all the answers? it takes days. and no, i have not.
You have not what? Where do i have this perception?? I built my boat from scratch from an owner who was convinced(the two before him also) it would never go over 65 ok...i didnt have everthing done for me and just write the check like you did. I did have a little help along the way but most i did. I can say a jet is a pretty fussy device at best...if it doesn't get water where and when it wants it, it's not going anywhere period. One of the main reasons why i sold it...props are so much easier anyways. :D I ran out of "days" to play with it over and over. Just to clarify for you.
and no, i do not intend to run off all over the country trying to find an at to test, because i know how to use what i have and what i have works. if i had an at, i would make sure it was perfect, and spend the weeks of testing and dialing in it would take to make IT work.
now we have to "run all over the country" to find stuff to test??? Jetboatland USA is in your backyard no?? Supposed you just changed an impeller and nothing else and pick up ET or speed without spending "weeks and weeks" of testing...what would do?? Would you come up with all this drama like you just did in your post justifying your game plan and say it cant be true??? I'm all ears. :)
your not getting it chet. your fixated on a couple of pieces of aluminum or stainless, and true top performance goes way way beyond those things in ways you don't seem to comprehend.
For a guy who doesnt wrench on his boat, has everthing tailored for his needs with a few phonecalls for the next race if there might be a problem, that is a pretty funny statement right there. Granted, you have true top perfromance from your deal. Your at your number bottom line. That must be because you've tried most of the parts available out there from "across the country" and found the optimum setup right?. So.... tell us viewers(well, just me i guess) what the results were when using the "subpar parts" if you could be so kind.
CHET
p.s. Ah the good old days....:D

[Jake W2]

WOW went away for a few days and look it you guys go.I cant belive after all this time no one has took all the brands and just did a test on one boat on the same day.What do you think Mike it would be a great write up.
What do you guys think
just imp.
imp and bowl
then mix and match
It would not be accurate for every ones hull designs but would be fun to see develop.
Mike W did do a test but it ws just a bowl test( Berk and Aggressor).The berk worked best for his set up.Top speed.
Jake

[Duane HTP]

Jake, It just isn't that simple. I've done exactly what you are talking about. But, you can't do it in a day. It takes years to do. There are thousands of possibilities, and yes, agreed, because of the time lapses, there will be vairables. But the people who have been testing and doing this for years have a pretty good handle on what works for the PARTICULAR application.

[Jake W2]

I hear you Duane I guess that is why this subject may never come to a end off whats best( if there is a best)because there is just to many vairables.It would be nice to do a bowl shoot out or imp shoot out though.
Jake

[WheelerDealer]

I must say that I really just don't get it Chet, I mean what exactly is your point?? In bp's case he has his boat dialed in "dead nuts" on the number for the 10.00 second bracket and has several tried and true combonations for all different types of water conditions and air, and I as understand it his boat has the ability to run well under the 10.00 second mark if he needed or wanted to. Knowing all of that can you please explain to me why it is that you think he needs to be trying all of these other parts??? Maybe you just don't understand bracket racing. Also why is it that you get so upset when someone uses an expert or asks for their help, and oh yeah, has them build a pump for their boat? These guys have been doing this stuf since jet pumps became available to the boating industry and they have seen just about every part, piece and gadget out there and they have very good baselines as to what parts to use and where to start. Also, why does it piss you off that there are people who can afford to pay an expert to do their pump work for them. I am by no means wealthy and I probably have to work as hard as anybody for everything I get, but in my experience it is usually cheaper to pay a well respected expert with 25+ years experience to do the job for you to accomplish your goal than it is for me or you to go out there and try and do it ourselves. I am certainly not against the do-it-your-selfer, because that is what I am, but when it comes to something like jet pumps by the time the do-it-yourself guy goes out and buys and tries every impeller, every bowl, wear ring, stuffer, droop, snoot, nozzel insert, inducer and so forth he will have spent more than if he would have an expert do it right the first time and he probably still won't be at the same performance level. I am not a "cheerleader" for any of the shops here on the board, stating facts is not cheerleading and I can say for sure that things that Duane at HTP, Jack at MPD, as well as others have done and designs they have made have helped push the envelope of jet performance, and they can prove it, can you?? I have read threads in which you slam Duane's wear ring several times, and I have also read where Duane has asked you to simply show him a picture of the wear ring in question so that he could look at it and maybe figure out what happened, and he has even asked you to do that right here on these public forums for all to see but yet you can't produce it....Hmmmm, I wonder why?? I for one being as I am the one who started this thread would love to see a picture of the wear ring because I also boat in very sandy water and I would like to know if there is any validation to your claim....Put up or shut up!!

[bp]

As i will ask you mr. openminded, why not? Are you afraid or something? How are you so sure you have to "start all over again"?? You remind me of HBJet with his, "it's all been tried and thats all you need to know" philosophy. Must be your the one who has tried it all???
you have no concept what i do with my boat chet, so i understand why you fail to understand what i'm saying. if randy believes "it's" all been tried, he's entitled to his opinion just like you are. however, that's a rather large assumption that i don't care to engage in. i do know what i've tried on MY boat, the effect on MY boat, and the results of the changes i've made to MY boat. now, the things i'm doing may not completely be to your satisfaction, but guess what? yup, happy chet is not #1 on my top 10 list. and to go further, have i tried "it" all? please define what you mean by "it".
now we have to "run all over the country" to find stuff to test??? Jetboatland USA is in your backyard no?? Supposed you just changed an impeller and nothing else and pick up ET or speed without spending "weeks and weeks" of testing...what would do?? Would you come up with all this drama like you just did in your post justifying your game plan and say it cant be true??? I'm all ears. :)
just so we're all on the same page here chet, jetboatland as you call it, is 250 miles south of where i live and work. i don't know if that qualifys as "in your backyard where you are, but when part of that 250miles includes a large portion of los angeles county, it just doesn't qualify as backyard in this state.
For a guy who doesnt wrench on his boat, has everthing tailored for his needs with a few phonecalls for the next race if there might be a problem.
CHET
chet, i am the guy that wrenches on this thing, always have been. sorry to disappoint ya. when i leave the house for whatever track i'm going to, it's always ready for it's first pass.