scat cranks

[76cole]

ok so i am thinking about building a blown 496. i see alot of scat cranks on e-bay are the a decent crank? thanks
76cole :mix:

[BrendellaJet]

Try doing a Search. Lots of info on products from overseas...

[Wetter the Better]

i just bought one from ebay for my 383 project motor .cant wait till i get it

[VelocityDriver]

Made in China, 2 of the local shops say that they are cheap and you will most likely have to have them turned to get everything even. They are not that much cheaper than Eagles.

[BrendellaJet]

Scats are machined in the USA. I could be misteken, but I think the eagles are not...

[TRG]

Made in China, 2 of the local shops say that they are cheap and you will most likely have to have them turned to get everything even. They are not that much cheaper than Eagles.
do you feel that confident to "NOT" have your eagle turned or balanced? :rolleyes:
if im not mistaken,...would'nt it be smart to have anything (involving the rotating assy.) balanced/turned?
i am by no means someone who knows what their talking about, but this is from learning the hard way!
todd

[Jet City]

For what its worth lots of guys on the 385 Ford forum seem to have had good reliability with both Scat and Eagle. Both should be inpected and balanced by your builder, when I get around to building a 496 I'll most liekly use a Scat crank, fine for the power levels I'll be dealing with.

[GofastRacer]

Guys think about it, regardless what MFG(even a GM) it is none are machined to your application(they don't know what you're building) so who cares about the machine work. You buy a crank and measure it up and make the corrections and detail it acording to your application, that's how you make them live. They come standard size and should be turned 10/10 anyhow to slow the bearing speed down!..

[Infomaniac]

Guys think about it, regardless what MFG(even a GM) it is none are machined to your application(they don't know what you're building) so who cares about the machine work. You buy a crank and measure it up and make the corrections and detail it acording to your application, that's how you make them live. They come standard size and should be turned 10/10 anyhow to slow the bearing speed down!..
It's cheaper to use high speed bearings. :D

[GofastRacer]

It's cheaper to use high speed bearings. :D
True but you still have to make the corrections unless you hit it lucky and it measures up right, and I don't just mean bearing clearances, the stroke can be off also(a lot of them are) which can be corrected when turned 10/10!.. :)

[Infomaniac]

True but you still have to make the corrections unless you hit it lucky and it measures up right, and I don't just mean bearing clearances, the stroke can be off also(a lot of them are) which can be corrected when turned 10/10!.. :)
Sorry - I was being a smart ass and it did not work . :yuk:
Maybe next time. :)

[GofastRacer]

Sorry - I was being a smart ass and it did not work . :yuk:
Maybe next time. :)
ROLMFAO!... :D :D

[f311fr1]

I have used Scat and Eagle cranks both in 600 to 750 Hp applications, both blown and N/A. Both work well. Both application were GEN IV blocks. Eagle also makes 4.25" strokers for GEN V & VI applications. I have a spare NEW 4.25" GEN IV Scat crank for sale. I also have a GM 427 tall deck STD bore block for sale. These parts are located in TN. PM me if interested. I think Nasvillebound is coming out west soon & you might get him to look at & haul or I can do pics, e-mail, and ship.

[steelcomp]

True but you still have to make the corrections unless you hit it lucky and it measures up right, and I don't just mean bearing clearances, the stroke can be off also(a lot of them are) which can be corrected when turned 10/10!.. :)
Corrections???
Wow...I'm really struggling with how to address this one...it goes in so many directions.
First, I wouldn't just assume a crank was done "wrong".
Balancing is one thing, but to assume the stroke is off? And to assume that your local machine shop is going to have any better equipment or operator than the mfgr to correct it? Do you really think you're going to get a better job from your local guy than from Eagle or Scat? How 'bout Bryant or Callies or Crower or LA? I sent my crank to a guy that supposedly does cranks for Callies. Supposed to be a big shot crank guy. He didn't even allow the extra thou for nitriding after he ground the crank! It came back .009/.009! Try and find bearings for THAT! How are you going to check the stroke to know? (Not many guys have the right set up to accurately check stroke) How are you going to check the index? That's more important than stroke.
If you have the ability, mic your own journals, or ask your machinist to do it. If they're in spec...leave it alone. Have it balanced, but grinding a crank, just for the sake of "truing it up" is unnecessary and a waste of money. The bearing speed is a non issue...you almost can't measure the difference. Machining a crank isn't easy...it takes a lot of patience and experience to do it right, and that's taking into consideration it's done on a good machine. For the most part, unless you send your crank to one of the top crank guys, you're not going to gain anything, and maybe lose. If you're going to spend that kind of extra money, buy a better crank.

[TIMINATOR]

Scat is forged in China and finish ground in their shop here(CA.), Eagle is finished in China and Quality checked here(CA.). We stock and use both brands,have never had either fail at 1000+ HP. You HAVE to balance any crank on a new assembly. We check EVERY bearing clearance and rod side clearance in every motor we build. Both the Scat and Eagle sizes run to the large side on finished dimensions, so we keep a stock of HPX bearings to get the clearances where we need them. Also ya better check the rod side clearances too, as we've seen some pretty tight. To those non-gurus out there: just checking the bearing journal clearance with plastigague is not enough! If the side clearance is not sufficient, (at least .010-.012) the oil comes in through the oil hole but has nowhere to escape to after lubing and REMOVING HEAT from the bearing. A spun bearing results, and the assembler regrinds the crank, puts it together again and it does the same thing again. Now you know why. P.S. just because you bought a set of rods and crank from the same company is no reason not to check everything. I WOULD NEVER BUY EVEN NEW PARTS FROM E-BAY OR ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE NET!!!!!! I'll pay more at a "brick and mortar store" to know that I can get satisfaction if theres any problem. At least once a week we get customers supplying their own parts from the "net", the 2 last week were: a complete 434 kit that was really a 383, and a 347 Ford kit that had 331 pistons in it that were non-returnable. We check every new customer supplied part WHEN THEY BRING IT IN HERE, that makes sure they know who "did" them, and they need to know it wasn't me. TIMINATOR

[steelcomp]

Scat is forged in China and finish ground in their shop here(CA.), Eagle is finished in China and Quality checked here(CA.). We stock and use both brands,have never had either fail at 1000+ HP. You HAVE to balance any crank on a new assembly. We check EVERY bearing clearance and rod side clearance in every motor we build. Both the Scat and Eagle sizes run to the large side on finished dimensions, so we keep a stock of HPX bearings to get the clearances where we need them. Also ya better check the rod side clearances too, as we've seen some pretty tight. To those non-gurus out there: just checking the bearing journal clearance with plastigague is not enough! If the side clearance is not sufficient, (at least .010-.012) the oil comes in through the oil hole but has nowhere to escape to after lubing and REMOVING HEAT from the bearing. A spun bearing results, and the assembler regrinds the crank, puts it together again and it does the same thing again. Now you know why. P.S. just because you bought a set of rods and crank from the same company is no reason not to check everything. I WOULD NEVER BUY EVEN NEW PARTS FROM E-BAY OR ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE NET!!!!!! I'll pay more at a "brick and mortar store" to know that I can get satisfaction if theres any problem. At least once a week we get customers supplying their own parts from the "net", the 2 last week were: a complete 434 kit that was really a 383, and a 347 Ford kit that had 331 pistons in it that were non-returnable. We check every new customer supplied part WHEN THEY BRING IT IN HERE, that makes sure they know who "did" them, and they need to know it wasn't me. TIMINATOR
Timo...have you had any issues with stroke or index on either Scat or Eagle?
I agree with the ebay warning...for those who don't know enough to ask the right questions. I've come to the conclusion that the guys at DynoFlo are pretty srtraight shooters.

[TIMINATOR]

Standard nitriding goes only about .002-.003 deep, "correct" it by grinding and the hardening is gone. The expensive cranks are deep treated, but they are more expensive. Stroke checkers are under $125.00 and are easy to use. TIMINATOR

[TIMINATOR]

No problems with stroke(we allways check it), but 1 was misboxed, the marking was correct though. All regrinds for perf work here are indexed, 4 out of 10 factory cranks are so far out the index can't be totally corrected, only improved. Have been able to index on the regrind every Scat and Eagle so far. Also no problems with the H-beam rods to 1000+ hp blown or N/A. TIMINATOR

[steelcomp]

No problems with stroke(we allways check it), but 1 was misboxed, the marking was correct though. All regrinds for perf work here are indexed, 4 out of 10 factory cranks are so far out the index can't be totally corrected, only improved. Have been able to index on the regrind every Scat and Eagle so far. Also no problems with the H-beam rods to 1000+ hp blown or N/A. TIMINATOR
For the H beam rods..is that with a bolt upgrade...say, to the ARP2000's, or with the std 8740's?

[likwidsukr]

of guys on the 385 Ford forum .
Where is this 385 forum you speak?

[GofastRacer]

Well this is one forum for the "385"!..
385 Series! (http://users.boardnation.com/~katmandu/index.php)

[GofastRacer]

I've come to the conclusion that the guys at DynoFlo are pretty srtraight shooters.
Well a few months ago I did a 468 with one their internally balanced kits, they said it was ready to go but when I went to put a pin in the rod, it wouldn't go in and the pin woudn't slide in the piston, you had to push it through!.. They forgot to pin fit!.. :rolleyes: But for the price of the kit I couldn't really bitch about it!...

[TIMINATOR]

I usually just use the 8740s, I have used the 2000s and still no problems either way. If I ever had a failure, I would have more bolt info, but no failures is better. TIMINATOR

[76cole]

ok after reading all the replys it looks like either crank is good. i am thinking i will be around the 800 h.p. range so i believe the better of the cranks should be used. i see different cranks rated at up to 700 h.p. and up to 800 h.p. made out of different material. they seem to be rechecked by a good machine shop to have them work out with no problems. why is there such a big price difference from e-bay and machine shops for the cranks when they say they are not factory blems? thanks for the learning lessons on what to look for and what to have done.
76cole :cool:

[steelcomp]

Well a few months ago I did a 468 with one their internally balanced kits, they said it was ready to go but when I went to put a pin in the rod, it wouldn't go in and the pin woudn't slide in the piston, you had to push it through!.. They forgot to pin fit!.. :rolleyes: But for the price of the kit I couldn't really bitch about it!...
I have one of their 496 kits...Eagle 4.25 crank, Eagle 6.385 H beam's w/ ARP2000's, JE/SRP 4.310 pistons w/ big bump. I talked them into trading me the bolt upgrade for the balance job. I'd rather my machinist did that.
I'm anticipating things like you described...haven't checked anything yet. One thing I don't particularly like is the sides of the rods at the big end aren't a machined surface...just shot peened. The 6.135's I have in my 467 are machined. I don't know that this is a problem, as long as there is enough side clearance. Rods seldom touch, and even if they do, it's only for 30 deg. of movement or so...not like it's a load bearing surface, so the finish dosen't bother me. Any input from you guys?

[Jet City]

Where is this 385 forum you speak?
This is THE 385 forum...http://www.network54.com/Forum/85220

[GofastRacer]

I have one of their 496 kits...Eagle 4.25 crank, Eagle 6.385 H beam's w/ ARP2000's, JE/SRP 4.310 pistons w/ big bump. I talked them into trading me the bolt upgrade for the balance job. I'd rather my machinist did that.
I'm anticipating things like you described...haven't checked anything yet. One thing I don't particularly like is the sides of the rods at the big end aren't a machined surface...just shot peened. The 6.135's I have in my 467 are machined. I don't know that this is a problem, as long as there is enough side clearance. Rods seldom touch, and even if they do, it's only for 30 deg. of movement or so...not like it's a load bearing surface, so the finish dosen't bother me. Any input from you guys?
I plan on the same kit from them for my Rayson but with turbo pistons, don't think you can beat the price!..
I noticed right off the non machined sides on the rods, didn't care for that either but when I checked clearance, they were at .024 which was plenty and I din't see a problem with that so I didn't machine them, as you say they don't hardly ever touch. Of course if I was building a NASCAR motor, they would be machined!..BTW, this is the type of stuff I meant by "making the corrections", I figure I'm buying a bunch of parts and starting from scratch, not thinking I'm going to slap it together out of the box!. I've seen guys do that and end up blowing it up then blame the parts!...As far as I'm concerened there is nothing ready to go out of the box!..Besides, how the hell do they know what you're building, right!...

[steelcomp]

I plan on the same kit from them for my Rayson but with turbo pistons, don't think you can beat the price!..
I noticed right off the non machined sides on the rods, didn't care for that either but when I checked clearance, they were at .024 which was plenty and I din't see a problem with that so I didn't machine them, as you say they don't hardly ever touch. Of course if I was building a NASCAR motor, they would be machined!..BTW, this is the type of stuff I meant by "making the corrections", I figure I'm buying a bunch of parts and starting from scratch, not thinking I'm going to slap it together out of the box!. I've seen guys do that and end up blowing it up then blame the parts!...As far as I'm concerened there is nothing ready to go out of the box!..Besides, how the hell do they know what you're building, right!...
When you put it that way...there's no arguement. I'm pretty much the same way. If I bought $4000 Crower crank, I'd still check it. :rollside: I just know what most crank grinders look like, and the guys that run 'em. They're old and worn out, and if you don't know "machining in the tenths" it's not going to come out much better than when it went in. My crank grinder sold his equipment. Was doing it in his garage. His stuff was TITS!!!
No disrespect meant before, Go Fast. :coffeycup

[GofastRacer]

When you put it that way...there's no arguement. I'm pretty much the same way. If I bought $4000 Crower crank, I'd still check it. :rollside: I just know what most crank grinders look like, and the guys that run 'em. They're old and worn out, and if you don't know "machining in the tenths" it's not going to come out much better than when it went in. My crank grinder sold his equipment. Was doing it in his garage. His stuff was TITS!!!
No disrespect meant before, Go Fast. :coffeycup
No problem bud, my bad I should have been more specific!.... :hammerhea I hear ya about crank grinders though. I used to have a guy that did beutiful work but he went and retired on me!.. :frown:

[cstraub]

Bottom Line: mic the crank, check your clearance between rods, clean and inspect the oil galleys for debris, mock the assembly up before you have crank balanced. I can't tell you how many times guys have spent $200 to have the crank balanced to find the counter weights hit the pistons or the block. Check the snout with your damper. Many of these have undersized snouts and the damper will just slide on.
Chris

[stix818]

I'm a little late on the subject but I have a SCAT in mine. We had it checked and ground like gofast said. Here are some before and after photos. We cut the big knuckles off and knife edged the throws. Ended up being about two hours of work and removed five pounds.
Before:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/88IMG_0345-med.JPG
Bad pic of After:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/88IMG_0358-med.JPG

[steelcomp]

I'm a little late on the subject but I have a SCAT in mine. We had it checked and ground like gofast said. Here are some before and after photos. We cut the big knuckles off and knife edged the throws. Ended up being about two hours of work and removed five pounds.
Before:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/88IMG_0345-med.JPG
Bad pic of After:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/88IMG_0358-med.JPG
Looks good, Stix. Lotta work.
What rods are you running?

[stix818]

Thanks Steelcomp. The rods are Manley's.

[TIMINATOR]

Lightening the crank will make a Drag CAR faster, a prop boat or a jet boat, not at all. This is because a drag car accelerates the crank through the gears, 3,4,or 5 times, the boat only once and the engine has allready gotten to its peak RPM before the boat ever catches up to it. At max speed(RPM), the inertia/weight of the crank,impeller,or flywheel is irrelevant, it is not accelerating so there are no inertia change and no loss from it. BUT all of those irregularities act like little oil pumps and that does contribute to windage losses in the crankcase, (however minor). TIMINATOR

[dynoflo]

hello everyone,
happy to see such satisfied customers. we aim to please everyone by being as forward as possible. regarding your pin fit, occsaionally you need to throw a quick hone or brush through it. if your items weren't pin fit you would definitely know it
thanks,
Keith 702-567-3035 if there is anything i missed

[Fired Up]

Thanks keith, you and bryant are always helpful at dynoflo. Good prices on your parts too!

[TopCat]

ok so i am thinking about building a blown 496. i see alot of scat cranks on e-bay are the a decent crank? thanks
76cole :mix:only if they are their billet cranks i surely wouldnt trust one of their cast cranks with any kind of horse power behind it ... just my $.02

[Jspeeddemon]

If you have a side clearance problem what is the best way to correct it?

[UBFJ #454]

We're running a Race Prep'd LUNATI Pro Series 4340 Crank in 'Ms. MoneyPenny' (1,500 + Hp) and couldn't be happier with it ... Showed absolutely no wear or signs of fatigue when we refreshed the motor at the beginnng of this year. The extra 100 or so bucks more than what we would have paid for other cranks, I believe. was well worth it and I'm quite confident it will hold up well when we step the motor up to above 2,000 Hp.