Dave Aggressor lets put your parts to the test!

[racingrascal]

Hello Dave. I have been following the "?" thread here and every other thread that ChetCapoli starts with HBjet. I called John West at Ultra boats yesterday to see if he would do this for me and he said sure. This is what I would like to do....... If your parts are so superior (Im not doughting you). Send a bowl, "ss" impeller, and what every other part you would like to prove to these two guys and the rest of us. I am building a 2002 19' Ultra Shadow with 1,000 hp. We will try my Berkley parts and your Aggressor parts, one after the other, with GPS and a Stoker Radar gun. We will then put these figures Acceleration, top speed, time to plan, etc on charts and graphs with rpm and speed. So what do you say? What do you have to loose? Then once and for all one of these guys will be right and this will be over. And the rest of us will know how each performed. And hell maybe my boat will be a little faster. Let me know we are waiting. Thank You,
Andy
[This message has been edited by racingrascal (edited January 24, 2002).]

[racingrascal]

BTW Dave here is a pic of my boat, just in case you were wondering whether I was blowing smoke. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001704.html
Andy
[This message has been edited by racingrascal (edited January 24, 2002).]

[beached1]

your butt's not going to be in this picture is it?
JK
No seriously, great idea RR. This could clear up all the talk.

[Dimarco Kid]

Golf Clap for Andy! I was wondering when someone was going to offer that! Good one Andy!
I say do it! I'm not a jet guy, but kinda tired of hearing all about this.
D Kid
P.S. Jesus, that's a nice lookin' boat!

[flat broke]

Andy,
Just to be clear, both bowl and impeller combinations would be in "from the factory" form? I'm glad you offered your boat for benchmarking. Since its brand new, there wont be any bs about setup favoring one over the other etc. If you need any help swapping bowls etc,and plan on running the evaluations on a weekend. Let me know. I'd love to get an article on this one.
Chris www.liquidaddiction.net (http://www.liquidaddiction.net)

[Blown509Liberator]

Andy
I already did it with a 500 hp motor. It can be seen here http://nothinbutjets.homestead.com/BBSO.html . This was just the bowl test. I re-did the test with an Aggessor A impeller and the speed where the same but with 200-300 more rpms from the Aggessor impeller over the Legend. I got flamed big time for this but i dont care it was real world with a real lake boat. I have not done the test with the bigger (850hp) motor. I will once I get all dialed in. Still no work has been done to any of the bowls. I hope Dave steps up and let this test Run. Also i would like to see Amt and CP step and do the same.
MikeW
MikeW
[This message has been edited by Blown509Liberator (edited January 24, 2002).]

[AGGRESSOR JETS]

Rascal-I did pick up on your offer- see other thread - I miss placed it in the wrong thread- I think this will be a good place and way- P/S I Called Tom Papp to represent our set up you can bring Jack- I will bring our newest Designed 7 & 9 Vanes - No Free walk if we win!

[miller killer]

I am very impressed with aggressor and tom papp,my boat is going to tom papps shop next week to get set up,ill donate my natural aspirated 14-1 565ci and my 19 foot edge stealth just to keep you guys from talking so much shit.i have had very good luck with aggressor,i know alot of people who have,my friend darren whittington had improvements on every aggressor part he put on his boat,he has the numbers from the track to prove it.

[RiverDave2]

I don't understand what changing the impellers and bowls would accomplish.. I don't think the results would hold true boat to boat. The only way to measure the "efficiency" (or lack there of http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif) would be to measure Thrust. I know when there R&D'ing jetski's they more or less put them in a swimming pool at a marked distance and then gauge the amount of thrust the pump puts out by use of a pressure plate. It would seem to me that the Ride Plate angle etc.. etc.. would have alot to do with the performance of the boat, where as you guys are trying to settle which is the better pump. Anyone have this setup for testing the pump on a boat?
RD

[Dimarco Kid]

Anybody know who Evrey Body is? This guy just got smoked by miller killer! (according to his profile) I thought it was misspelled, but I know miller killer doesn't beat EVERYBODY, so I wonder who that guy is? LOL
D Kid

[ChetCapoli]

Originally posted by miller killer:
I am very impressed with aggressor and tom papp,my boat is going to tom papps shop next week to get set up,ill donate my natural aspirated 14-1 565ci and my 19 foot edge stealth just to keep you guys from talking so much shit.i have had very good luck with aggressor,i know alot of people who have,my friend darren whittington had improvements on every aggressor part he put on his boat,he has the numbers from the track to prove it.
AHHHHHHHHH! I feel so much better now. It's about time i had some back up. Hat's off to ya miller killer. Aggressor IS where it's at. All these guys have to do is try it on their boats and they will see.
CHET

[SPECTRABRENT]

Please let ***boat Mag know about this test. It would be a great article.
Brent

[miller killer]

Demarco kid,never said i was computer smart,but i do know how to build a fast boat.i spend more time working and trying to build a fast boat then taking typing lessons at a local j.c.!why dont you look at my boat at www.norwall.com (http://www.norwall.com) under links go to cotton candy,thank you.look at those numbers,that was 10 years ago.

[Dimarco Kid]

Just had to "mess" with you man! I did see your boat on your page, very nice and yes I see it is fast. I just wanted to "welcome" you with a little humor!
Don't worry, you'll get along fine, and I'm speaking for the rest of the board when I say, any friend of Chet's is a friend of ours. LOL
D Kid

[Blown509Liberator]

Chet Chet Chet. You pal up to some of the oddest people. First SlowBoat the Champion Jet Hydro and now This guy who comes in here and starts calling people "DickHeads" and flinging insults at one of the pro who has taken the time to respond to peoples questions. All I can say to Miller Killer is you best be listing for them drums (((Boom)))(((Boom))). Right RiverDave? Also FYI The Biz holds NJBA Pro Gas Jet E.T. record holder at 7.80 seconds and NJBA Pro Gas Jet MPH record holder at 133.67 mph. Then upped that again this year in October at Ming. Guess what... not a Aggressor part on that boat, And guess who set up the pump. My beef with Aggressor has not been "Who make the fastest parts". I have said my piece on this subject and will not rehash this. As for this test I would like to see it done with a Edelbroc Qwikdata and a Radar/GPS with a determined distance. This way there is no limit to the amount of runs that can be taken. Also tune time will not be rushed.
[This message has been edited by Blown509Liberator (edited January 25, 2002).]

[RiverDave2]

Originally posted by miller killer:
Demarco kid,never said i was computer smart,but i do know how to build a fast boat.
look at those numbers,that was 10 years ago.
I do know how to build a fast boat... hhhmmmm... Look at those #'s that was 10 years ago..
Do you know how to build a fast boat? Or do you know how to buy someone elses "used to be fast, but ripped all the parts out and sold it to you" fast boat.. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif Seems to me that you said you bought that 3 months ago... How did you put up #'s 10 years ago?
Blown509, I think this guy is great! Now we have two Chet's!! Double your pleasure, double your fun, But Miller Killer bet get a prop or he's gonna get outrun! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
RD
[This message has been edited by RiverDave2 (edited January 25, 2002).]

[Slick]

I can't wait to see the outcome of this pissing match. However, I do think doing it at the drags is a bit much. If the boat is represented fairly by one side and the Agressor products by another, I think the testing would be more than fair. By the way, who's going to be driving during these afformentioned tests?

[Eric]

Originally posted by Blown509Liberator:
Chet Chet Chet. You pal up to some of the oddest people. First SlowBoat the Champion Jet Hydro and now This guy who comes in here and starts calling people "DickHeads" and flinging insults at one of the pro who has taken the time to respond to peoples questions. All I can say to Miller Killer is you best be listing for them drums (((Boom)))(((Boom))). Right RiverDave? Also FYI The Biz holds NJBA Pro Gas Jet E.T. record holder at 7.80 seconds and NJBA Pro Gas Jet MPH record holder at 133.67 mph. Then upped that again this year in October at Ming. Guess what... not a Aggressor part on that boat, And guess who set up the pump. My beef with Aggressor has not been "Who make the fastest parts". I have said my piece on this subject and will not rehash this. As for this test I would like to see it done with a Edelbroc Qwikdata and a Radar/GPS with a determined distance. This way there is no limit to the amount of runs that can be taken. Also tune time will not be rushed.
[This message has been edited by Blown509Liberator (edited January 25, 2002).]
Here's the latest record numbers for the "biz" (Risky Business) in NJBA Pro gas Jet:
7.72
144.18 mph
http://www.njbaracing.net/records.htm
Eric

[miller killer]

River Dave,norwall.com is not my sight,just a link to see some pictures,yes that was ten years ago,and no not all parts were stripped off that boat,i bought boat less motor,and i dont think there will be a v-drive thats going to out run me coming out of the narrows on a big weekend drunk.thats all i care about,show boating for the ladies and getting drunk.

[HBjet]

Originally posted by miller killer:
thats all i care about,show boating for the ladies and getting drunk.
Let me know if you ever go to Parker so I can stay home. Thanks.
HBjet

[miller killer]

last time i went to parker i didnt make it,i got drunk about hour away from home and ended up at a strip club in santa barbara,do most my boating at lake naciemento,fun lake,lots of ladies and a lot of drunks.i did get a ticket last year for reckless driving going to narrows,almost blew one of my tunnel jets over,but got laid because of it,

[HBjet]

Originally posted by miller killer:
i did get a ticket last year for reckless driving going to narrows,almost blew one of my tunnel jets over,but got laid because of it,
Are you braggin? Really? I just don't get what there is to brag about. To me that reads I was acting stupid again and got caught because I almost killed my self, but the chicks think it is cool Good Luck bud, if thats what it takes to get some, you must really need it bad.
HBjet
HBjet

[HAVNAFIT]

I would leave the motor out of cotton-sausage and put a trolling motor on the bow. This would give you more room for a keg of BILLIE BEER..CHEERS>>>>

[Havasu_Dreamin]

And people wonder how boaters can get a bad reputation.
HBJet, you called it right on this one!
HD
Originally posted by miller killer:
thats all i care about,show boating for the ladies and getting drunk.

[ROZ]

Originally posted by Havasu_Dreamin:
And people wonder how boaters can get a bad reputation.
HBJet, you called it right on this one!
HD
Wait, don't tell me.....He was the guy that gave PWC'rs the bad wrap....And now he has a boat?
[This message has been edited by ROZ (edited January 25, 2002).]

[beached1]

Originally posted by miller killer:
lake naciemento,fun lake,lots of ladies and a lot of drunks.
And lots of cops. You're full of crap. I went with my buddy to buy a used Stoker up near there and we tested the boat on that lake. Johnny Law was everywhere.

[Slick]

Watch the IP#s to see who this is. I think he's funny. He misrepresents everything about safe boating, but he's funny.

[Dimarco Kid]

Hey Miller,
I'm not going to say this to start an argument, cause I'm too old for that, BUT if I lived out there and saw you in the "narrows" I would definately "hook on" to your jet with my v-drive. Just thought I mention that! LOL Just havin a little fun!
D Kid

[77charger]

Originally posted by beached1:
And lots of cops. You're full of crap. I went with my buddy to buy a used Stoker up near there and we tested the boat on that lake. Johnny Law was everywhere.
beached 1 i go there every year and as for the cops i dont see many but you do have to be a dumbass to get a ticket there speed alone wont do it neither will no baffles.Like i said a complete dumb ass.

[miller killer]

I am a dumb ass,and yes i am drunk right now,yes i did give jet skis a bad rep,that was the first ticket ive got out there.we stay out by the narrows and watch the cops go bye bye then raise hell.fun place though,maybe i will put a trolling motor on it,then we could test those pumps at 40 or 50 mph.I am hard up, ill do whatever it takes to get some action,its hard when your a 6-0" 300 pound pipe fittin ladies man.

[beached1]

Yawn

[77charger]

back to the topic.I would be interested in seeing what each bowl or pump parts are capable of doing.If i were searchimg for the best performing parts i want to be able to open a box and bolt on a bowl,nozzle,impeller,etc and not have to have any pump builder set it up.Iam a do it myselfer person and would prefer to buy a performance part off the shelf.If it comes to custom fittng and set up i'd rather take my current parts to a shop and have the same done for less.Not spend say 500.00 for a bowl than another 1-200 to have it work properly.And i think the average consumer would agree.Using rrs boat would be a good test of parts where one could change a bowl,impeller,etc. on your own not a custom jet guru do extra mods.

[HammerDown]

I agree 100%...I'm not intrested in cutting a 10'th of a second off my ET. Or jamming 1000 HP in a 19 foot boat to make it go 120 mph. Show me what pump + Imp. does what(on the SAME boat) at just on plane, and 1000 rpm increments up to lets say 5500 rpm. Out of the box pieces, nothing massaged. Let the Aggressor man and Legend man or who ever set up the pumps, shoe,ride plate etc. And if one pump needs a 1000 hp motor or the other works better with 500 hp great, that's what some of us want to find out. And for crying out loud, all this CRYING ABOUT I SAID YOU SAID THEY SAID has to STOP!!! Your gona make a layed back fella like me jump off a bridge!!!
Till then...HammerDown.
[This message has been edited by HammerDown (edited January 25, 2002).]

[fryzll]

Yep, im w/ HammerDown. 1......2......3......JUMP!! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
Chris

[Blown509Liberator]

Hammer
I did just that...Almost. This came fom my Home page www.NothinButJets.com (http://www.NothinButJets.com) (Bowl Test):
First the test boat - 1999 502/502 powered 21' Liberator pickle fork tunnel hull. Pump is set up with a MPD shoe(1 deg taper with a .090 shim) and ride plate( 4deg up) MPD rough water Loader. Running an 'A' cut Legend impeller. Aggressor droop with 8deg. up and place diverter. Ride plate angel and shoe depth where kept constant for all tests.
Test 1: American Turbine Bowl
The AMT bowl had a great hole shot with the diverter down very little effort to get on plane. It had an avg top speed of 75mph @ 5000 rpm's speedo indicated. I noted that the tail at full throttle was very tall and with nozzle at full up I lost 7 mph and the rear felt like it was digging in.
Avg Top Speed: 74.6 mph (GPS)
Best top Speed todate: 79.3 mph (GPS)
Slowest planing speed: 15 mph
Test 2: The Aggressor 9 Vane Bowl
With the Aggressor the hole shot felt the same as the AMT very little effort need to plane,but this is where the similarities end, the Aggressor lost some punch from 30mph up and had a very disappointing best top speed of 67mph @ 4900 rpm's (100 RPM's less than the AMT). tail at full up was low and did not affect top speed at full up. I truly dont feel that the large loss of speed here is all because of the bowl . At that speed my tunnel hull is maintaining more wetted surface, bringing top end speed numbers down even more.
Avg Top Speed: 63.4mph (GPS)
Best top Speed todate: 67.8 mph (GPS)
Slowest planing speed: 19 mph
Test 3: Berkeley G bowl
As with the Aggressor and the AMT, very little effort need to plane, but again this is where the similarities end. The G even though it seem to take a little longer to get to the top speed out ran the other 2 bowl by far. Also the big numbers posted with this bowl where very consistent. I could reproduce the same speed time and time again. It like to run with a little less up on the diverter than the Amt and the Aggressor. The hull felt completey different. It felt as if it was in complete filght. Almost as if there was to much lift. With the preset 4deg up on the ride plate was to much maybe 2-3 deg would be better. Again the diverter in full up knocked 7-10 mph of the top speed.
Avg Top Speed 78.1mph (GPS) (@5000 rpms)
Best top Speed todate: 81.5 mph (GPS)
Slowest planing speed: 16 mph
So in summery, the bowls that claims the most CMF ran the slowest. Is that my modest 500 hp likes the tighter bowl to make more psi??Will this all change once the 509 blower motor is installed with the 300 more hp? I must say I am very surprised by the results. To tell you the truth i did not expect any difference between the 3. What do you all think?
But again. I got Flamed for it and was labled a MPD Cheerleader
[QUOTE]ChetCapoli
Member
Posts: 109
Registered: Mar 2001
posted June 11, 2001 08:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You the man slowboat!
I like guys who tell it like they see it! Actually i think that test was done by a normal lake guy who just wanted to do some testing at the time. Just so happens the intake setup was done by MPD,(The one who says berkeley has the best bowl right boys?) Maybe that's why the berk did the best!Then again, you dont win to many races spining 5000rpm! [QUOTE]
from this thread. http://free.***boat.net/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000333.html
[This message has been edited by Blown509Liberator (edited January 28, 2002).]

[HBjet]

So, where are we with this test? Dave, will you be willing to send your products to John West at Ultra for testing on a brand new boat? I believe tests will be done with speed rating for every 500 rpm greater. Example, you start with 2500 rpm, then 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500. I'm sure you get the idea. After testing, the results will be posted in formal write-up on the internet for everyone to see. IF the results are in your favor you could have a link on the Aggressor site for customers to see who have the same questions as we do. You could have Tom Papp present of you like to do the pump work, if not Ultra I'm sure would have someone that could perform the change with no problem. These products would have to be off the shelf, out of the box items, no special cuts. I'm pretty sure they will test just with the bowl, and then with the bowl and impeller change. I would really like to see this happen. I know you want retail dollars up front for the items before testing them, and if they run better/faster, the customer or Ultra has to buy them. I say this would be some great advertising for you, and the cost for one impeller and bowl is a lot less then an add in hot boat. Lets not forget all the new customers you might be getting from right here on the boards. Ultra may even look into using them again. Well, let us know for you are still up to this, or is the only way you will do it if everything is paid upfront? Thanks
HBjet

[RiverDave2]

Just outta curiosity... What happens if everything is paid for upfront and then it's not faster? Does Andy get his money back? Does anyone have to put a Berkeley sticker on there truck for a year? http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif j/k
In all seriousness though, even though I'm not a jet guy I'd really like to see this happen as well! I love watching products go "head to head." I'd have to agree with the no special cuts though...... Or..... http://free.***boat.net/ubb/wink.gif Someone ought to give the boys at Berkeley and Legend a call and let them make some "cuts" as well to be fair.
RD
RD

[rivercrazy]

And an AT or Dominator

[LVjetboy]

The thing about special cuts, clearancing or setup is you no longer know if the performance gain is from a better pump design, or from the blueprint work, or some unknown combination of both. I think most here are interested in what the design alone gives, then they can go to their favorite builder or do their own tweeks to get more if they like. So out-of-the-box test is what I'd like to see too. Also under similar test conditions...I've seen a difference in 3 mph top end just with cooler air temps.
jer

[ChetCapoli]

Originally posted by Blown509Liberator:
But again. I got Flamed for it and was labled a MPD Cheerleader
[QUOTE]ChetCapoli
PM [/B]
Now where did i label you a cheerleader??? Maybe mentioning that you had a few "grey" areas in your test, yes but that's pretty much about it. FYI, my boat at 5 grand runs 64mph but at 5800 it runs 80. 5000rpm is just not conclusive enough. With a test like yours, you need to run it from one end of the spectrum(say 3grand) to the other( like 6500). As i always said, comparing the bowls is like comparing a dart320 to a HP chevy head, nite and day.

[ChetCapoli]

Originally posted by HBjet:
Lets not forget all the new customers you might be getting from right here on the boards.
HBjet[/B]
Are you going to be the first one hb???? say it aint so! http://free.***boat.net/ubb/cool.gif
[This message has been edited by ChetCapoli (edited January 28, 2002).]

[future boater]

come on aggressor step up...
"run what you brung and not your tounge..."
in other words send some parts. you know your product is the sh!t prove it... pack up your stuff and go to ultra you can supervise the installation. chet you should attend since your always flapping your gums...lets end this once and for all. 509 lib did some tests and they were disputed. so in the words of billy sqier " lay it on the line."
prove your product! i wish i knew where the aggresor cheerleader is i'd post it...
aggresor, the product YOU sell is out of the box. so whats the problem installing it out of the box? are you products inferior? are your products all blow and NO go? in case your wondering i prefer dominators. i just dont like a loud mouth who doesnt deliver what they say they can.

[Blown509Liberator]

Chet
Right here
"You the man slowboat!
I like guys who tell it like they see it! Actually i think that test was done by a normal lake guy who just wanted to do some testing at the time. Just so happens the intake setup was done by MPD,(The one who says berkeley has the best bowl right boys?) Maybe that's why the berk did the best!Then again, you dont win to many races spining 5000rpm!
As for my test I guess i gould have compared at a stepped Rpms that would have not changed I was looking for top end. I was told that running an Aggressor bowl would make me run faster.... It didnt. So I was told I need an Aggressor impeller. So I got one. Put it in it ran 200 Rpms more and same speed. Tell me chet what would have running it at slower Rpms have told you. also if you look I did note planing speed but not rpms, I guess I could have. So here are my numbers. A lot more than you have put up. SO I ask you Chet, where are yours (and ones without holes and gray areas like your hp guessing game)? It is shut up or put up or Chet.

[eliminatya]

hey blown 509 i think wour test was great, i remember it from the nothin but jets page, but i think you would see better results from the aggressor stuff with the power you have now. I have a similar motor package to you just a few more cubic inches, i am five tenths of a mph away from 100 at 6100rpm and that is with an aggressor AB

[Blown509Liberator]

I had some set up issues to deal with this summer first but I plan on running it again. I sold the bowl to a buddy but still can use it as it is in his garage and he sold his boat. so he has nothing to put it on. I have my set up just about dialed in and have seem 96 mph. 100 will go down this next summer.
MikeW
BTW NothinButJet is still out there WWW.NothinButJets.com (http://WWW.NothinButJets.com)
[This message has been edited by Blown509Liberator (edited January 29, 2002).]

[eliminatya]

how much intake preesure are you seeing at wot. also how much boost are you runnung. is your motor intercooled thinking about stepping up and buying one but first i have to come up with an extra 2g.