Lake Wylie SC ... Beware (Noise law) !!!

[Jr Jetter]

Hey folks, finally got around to write about this issue.... Give me your thoughts or feedback, what can we do if anything...
Markist and I had a run in with a certain law enforcement officer last week on Lake Wylie in SC. I may ramble on parts of this, so bear with me and my thoughts.
First of all, as those who live in the area already know, Wylie is actually a divider in many sections for the state borders of NC and SC. Some parts are split down the middle, others are fully in NC and/or SC. Therefore you have multiple laws and enforcement all going on at the same time depending on the area of the lake you are on. Could be local city police, sheriff's dept (NC or SC), as well as DNR (Dept of Natural Resources).
Secondly, just to clarify, I have been on this lake at least once a week, many times multiple times a week because it is the closest to the house for me (10 mins from house to ramp). I have never had any issues with any officers of any of the listed departments above, with the exception of 1 individual. This one person obviously has an issue with any boat and OT headers. All other officers have waved, chit chatted at the dock, and have never given any type of hassel.
Here is a summary of what the 1 officer is saying that makes our boats illegal to be on the lake. I dont have the actual print out of the law in front of me right now, but can find it if someone wants the actual written word to read.
According to the law, all jets, v drives, and inboard engine boats must have water injection, sealed automotive type mufflers, and the exhaust cannot exceed 2" in diameter. This applies to thru transom and over the transom exhaust ! I tried to argue a couple points or wording issues here. 2" is the primary or the collector part of the exhaust ? He said the collector. I then tried to argue the inside diameter of the baffles, which are inside the collectors ? He said the outside diameter of the collector is what determines the law, period. Something about he even contacted legal dept to clarify.
Remember, this only applies to the portion of the lake that is in SC. NC says water injection and baffles only as a requirement.
So....here is my complaint/bitch about it all...
According to this law for Lake Wylie (in SC only), most boats are illegal because their exhaust opening is larger than 2" !! Of course, this excludes Outboards which say they must exhaust thru the prop, and jet skis. So, all the ski boats, Malibu's, single and twin engine Fountains type boats, Donzi's, general I/O type boats, etc are illegal right ? However, none of them are hasseled because they have thru the transom exhaust !! However, they are still larger than 2" !! It does not appear to be a noise issue with this officer. He has found a section and has applied it to our type boats, but is not enforcing the written word to the other boats. Why have none of the other officers, from all other departments ever said anything to me or others regarding noise and the 2" law ? Why have they not enforced this particular law ? It is only this 1 officer who is doing so, and since it is written, he can act on it.
Another interesting issue that was learned with the last run in, just an FYI... If you are stopped on the SC side, and you are from out of state. You must post bond money (pay ticket) right there and then, or be taken to jail. If you are a SC resident, they will issue a ticket, and you appear in court later.
I have thought over and over about fighting this fight, however I just cant do it. Since this last run in, I was informed by this particular officer, that if he caught me on the lake again (SC side only), he would issue me the max fine and take me to jail immediately, since I have according to him been warned and shown the law in print. He did say I (we) could boat on the NC side all we wanted, even said we could launch on the SC side, get towed to the middle of the lake (about 100 yards or so), then fire the boats up and do our thing. Kind of crazy huh ?
I have thought of taking the camera to the launch ramp and taking pictures of all the exhausts that are larger than 2". What to do with the pictures from there, I dont know exactly ?
Anyway, what do you folks think of it all ? To me its all silly and petty, but does make me mad at the same time. I have no problem if it simply stated OT headers or whatever due to noise. It would just be known our type boats were not allowed on that lake, simple as that. But that is not the case with this officer, or the enforcement of a written law by all of them.
I am done for now....lol.
Later folks... btw....is it spring yet ?!?!?! :( :(

[DaveA]

If this SC written law was actually enforced, then the guys on Wylie as well as Lakes Greenwood, Marion, Murray, Hartwell, Santee, etal, should have been driven crazy with this for years! My Raysoncraft was run on Wylie in its heyday with dry open headers without incident. Heck, it was even run without registration numbers. And without registration! But I digress.....
If you can get a copy of it, or if it's on the Web here someplace, it would be very important to know what it says exactly. Then find out if there's any precedent that's been set in court on it.
Hopefully the ***boaters on Murray will weigh in on this.
Jr Jetter, post a link to this on Just Jets to get some more attention to it also.
DaveA

[Grizzwald]

you have to get a lawyer, some expert testomony and schedule
a court date for the ticket. we had problems where we boat
with just one water cop, someone finally fought him in court and
won, now the guy doenst bother anyone.
good luck

[Jr Jetter]

Thanks for the link MikeT.....this is the one. Here it is for all to see...
ARTICLE 11.
MOTORBOATS ON LAKE WYLIE
SECTION 50-25-1110. Noise control requirements.
Any motorboat operating upon waters on Lake Wylie shall comply with the following noise control requirements:
(1) Motorboats with inboard-outboard propulsion machinery shall exhaust through the propeller.
(2) Inboard motorboats with "V" - drives - jets or propeller propulsion machinery with exhaust through the transom shall be water cooled with a steady stream of water or exhaust underwater while under way or exhaust through an automotive type sealed (baffle) muffler for each exhaust stack, with exhaust openings not to exceed two inches in diameter. Boats with original propulsion machinery made before 1970 are exempt from the requirements of this item.
(3) Motorboats and their propulsion machinery which exhaust over the transom shall exhaust through an automotive sealed (baffle) type muffler for each exhaust stack, with exhaust openings not to exceed two inches in diameter. Glass pack mufflers, resonators and above water open exhausts are prohibited for such motorboats. Baffle inserts are prohibited on all inboard boats.
(4) Motorboats with outboard propulsion machinery shall exhaust under water at all times unless designed or modified to exhaust above water and comply with the provisions of item (3) of this section.
SECTION 50-25-1120. Exemptions and exceptions.
The motorboats competing in a regatta, boat race, marine parade, tournament or exhibition approved as provided in Section 50-21-1010 shall be exempted from the provisions of this article. Exceptions may also be granted during designated hours for pretrial runs and for trial runs for speed records immediately following the event.
SECTION 50-25-1130. Violation of article a misdemeanor; penalty.
The operator of any motorboat who violates any of the provisions of this article is guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction shall be fined for a first offense not less than fifty-dollars nor more than two hundred dollars or imprisoned for not more than thirty days. For a conviction of a second offense the punishment shall be by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars nor more than two hundred or by imprisonment for not more than thirty days. For the conviction of third or subsequent offense the punishment shall be by a fine of not less than two hundred dollars nor more than five hundred dollars or by imprisonment for not more than six months or both such fine and imprisonment.

[Starloans]

2 things.
1. Out here "I think" when a body of water is the border both sides have jurisdiction on the entire water area and up to the high water mark on either side. Not sure how it is there. Could be a good reason why I moved. You should check that out there.
2. I'm from NC so I know how the LE is there. Mostly good ol boys that do whatever they want until someone catches them doing something FU and puts them on CNN. That happened to a SC HP. I support LE but we have some dumb ones here in Kali too.
A few years ago my GF and I took a redeye to Atlanta, rented a car and drove to NC. I used to live near the SC border and had a few "opportunities" to meet the SC LE in my youth. We were pulled over in Lee county (Bishopville) on I 20 by a local running radar in the median. Walks up to the door and says let me see your DL. GF was driving and showed her CA DL and the next word out of his mouth was "unless you have $130, you're going to jail".
SC has this thing with receprocity. If your state is not on their list then you have to post bond right there. I don't agree with that with technologhy now days and all and I would have sued them if I had the time. I made him take us to jail and pay the magistrate. No way was I going to give that backwards ass F%$# money on the freeway. We didn't actually go to jail just to the pOlice station. The cops name was Dillion. You guessed it......first name Matt. No shit!! I did file a formal complaint with his good ol boy boss the Sherriff. Actually got to go to his office and sit down and talk to him. Probably threw the form in the trash as I'm walking out the door.
Now here's the deal...SC should have receprocity wth NC. But in some places if you get a boating ticket it's a mandatory court appearance. Your code says 2" exhaust sure enough. He will always have that to hit you with when he stops you. But if he is only enforcing it on you and he continually stops you that could be something you should speak to an attorney about. I think you should carry a video camera next time. :D Good luck.

[Sane Asylum]

you have to get a lawyer, some expert testomony and schedule
a court date for the ticket. we had problems where we boat
with just one water cop, someone finally fought him in court and
won, now the guy doenst bother anyone.
good luck
Just a humble question.....But, how'd you "win" if the law clearly states what the regulation is?? (It's on a post above my post)....
I know some of the lakes in the area and it looks very clear to me that the law is clearly written. Was yours more of a matter of consistency of enforcement??

[miketsouth]

am·big·u·ous
unclear
Synonyms: cryptic, doubtful, dubious, enigmatic, enigmatical, equivocal, inconclusive, indefinite, indeterminate, inexplicit, obscure, opaque, puzzling, questionable, tenebrous, uncertain, unclear, unintelligible, vague .
Example:
Motorboats and their propulsion machinery which exhaust over the transom shall exhaust through an automotive sealed (baffle) type muffler for each exhaust stack, with exhaust openings not to exceed two inches in diameter. Glass pack mufflers, resonators and above water open exhausts are prohibited for such motorboats. Baffle inserts are prohibited on all inboard boats.
He said the outside diameter of the collector is what determines the law, period. Something about he even contacted legal dept to clarify.
This is absolute bullshit. Exhaust opening means that opening which the exhaust is allowed to enter the atmosphere.
sealed automotive type mufflers
like in "automotive' type carb, starter, distributor, fuel pump. More bullshit. Invites disaster.
Sounds to me like a bunch of fools decided to take it upon themselves to target a certain TYPE of boat. Dam unconstitutional i believe. Has nothing to do with sound levels. That is measured in DB. Class action suit with punitive damages would be the solution. Demand that all lakes will have an area set aside for that type of boat. Sue for loss of freedom of expression. Buy a nice banjo. :D

[Sane Asylum]

am·big·u·ous
unclear
Synonyms: cryptic, doubtful, dubious, enigmatic, enigmatical, equivocal, inconclusive, indefinite, indeterminate, inexplicit, obscure, opaque, puzzling, questionable, tenebrous, uncertain, unclear, unintelligible, vague .
Example:
Motorboats and their propulsion machinery which exhaust over the transom shall exhaust through an automotive sealed (baffle) type muffler for each exhaust stack, with exhaust openings not to exceed two inches in diameter. Glass pack mufflers, resonators and above water open exhausts are prohibited for such motorboats. Baffle inserts are prohibited on all inboard boats.
He said the outside diameter of the collector is what determines the law, period. Something about he even contacted legal dept to clarify.
This is absolute bullshit. Exhaust opening means that opening which the exhaust is allowed to enter the atmosphere.
sealed automotive type mufflers
like in "automotive' type carb, starter, distributor, fuel pump. More bullshit. Invites disaster.
Sounds to me like a bunch of fools decided to take it upon themselves to target a certain TYPE of boat. Dam unconstitutional i believe. Has nothing to do with sound levels. That is measured in DB. Class action suit with punitive damages would be the solution. Demand that all lakes will have an area set aside for that type of boat. Sue for loss of freedom of expression. Buy a nice banjo. :D
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh............OK :D

[Tinkerer]

So ZOOMIES that are 2 inch in diameter with a sealed automotive type 2 inch muffler should be legal.
It doesn't say how many 2 inch openings you could have...

[mickeyfinn]

As far as "other" boats go the law does seem to say "water injected" or "through transom below water while underway" , so I don't think the enforcement issue applies to them.
As far as targeting a "certian kind of boat" how is this different than laws which make "certian kinds of drugs " illegal? As much as we might all disagree with this law I don't think it is unconstitutional. It sounds like you are claiming that you are being discriminated against due to your choice of boat. Sorry, but you can only be discriminated agains for reasons of race, creed, color, sex or national origin. Not boat type.
As for the size of the exhaust openings you are correct. The law states that the opening may not exceed 2 inches. The diameter of the opening would be the inside diameter not the outside diameter. You may be screwed on the required automotive type muffler. The only thing I can suggest is that you research the laws and see if you can find something that states that the exhaust must be USCG approved. Then at least you can say the laws are conflicting and you could not legally comply because automotive mufflers are not coast guard approved. I wouldn't advise installing baffles as they seem to be expressly prohibited.
Just my .02 but I'm no lawyer

[Sane Asylum]

i thought of that. THAT'D fixem.
thats right. Employers may not discriminate based on those reasons. These aint employers. The boats are not illegal, just thier use on that lake. Noise is the issue and reason for the law. Again, noise is measured in decibles, not OT or TT . Not baffles, not glasspacks. That shit dont make sense.
and by the way MICKYFINN what do you know about multistage centrifugal pumps? I got a boiler feewater pump that wont pump like the other two in battery. It is a two stage pump. Question: impleller phasing (relationship between the vanes of each impeller) can it be an issue? Simple dam aurora split-case. Piped like all the rest. Challenged like all the rest as regards NPSH (only 4' above required). Wont do the volume, wont draw the amps. Motor speed faster than the rest (not as much amp draw) internal clearances the same. Deadhead pressure within 5psi but only pumps 50% volume. No restrictions indicated at the pump suction/discharge gauges. Almost like the impellers were thinner (less volume). I would suppose that if the water was bypassing internally it would load up. Need ideas.
Pump curve says.......... "what flow at what current draw"?? I'm assuming boiler not making up fast enough? Not trying to steal your question but thought I might be able to help a boating brother out....
You said deadhead pressure within 5 psi......Is the inlet flow to the pump restricted or do you have low flow/capacity??......Good indicator that you're not putting enough water in the pump......

[Infomaniac]

Hire a PI, even an internet PI. Dig up some dirt on the guy expose the findings or get him fired. Dickheads like that are never without skeletons in their closets.

[sanger rat]

Weld four 2inch pipes in the end of your collector.

[MarKist]

HEY..............I know how to solve this chit ....I won't go back to that f*#kin MUD HOLE!! :devil: I ain't never like that lake !!!and I'm close to it too , 10 min.so for now on I'll go to Mt. Island where they love us!! :Dand its 25 min. away! :wink:
Markist

[Jr Jetter]

Long and short of it all is someone would need to fight it, and that someone is not going to be me !! I dont want the maximum $$ fine thrown at me and have to sit in a cell while waiting to see a judge. Let alone, my boat sitting out in public while all this is going on.
To me the biggest issue is that here is a law on the books that has not been enforced as written, until now to single out a "type" of boat, and by only one officer. If it was enforced as written, basically only outboards and jet skis would be on the lake legally.
Automotive type vs USCG approved, DB levels measured for a noise law vs a measurement of pipes, both very valid, but there again, would require a fight. Zoomies with mufflers was also a thought of mine, but damn that would be an ugly sight to see.... :jawdrop:
Infomaniac....great idea :idea: :idea: But a chithead like this, I for one dont think I would want to know his skeletons.... :D
I guess in bringing this thread up was in hopes of an idea that could come to life without someone having to go through the ringer. Seems something could be written, or someone contacted that would bring about a change to something that is wrong. Either enforce as written or change to be accurate.
1 Banjo on order !! :D :jawdrop: :D :jawdrop:

[mickeyfinn]

i thought of that. THAT'D fixem.
thats right. Employers may not discriminate based on those reasons. These aint employers. The boats are not illegal, just thier use on that lake. Noise is the issue and reason for the law. Again, noise is measured in decibles, not OT or TT . Not baffles, not glasspacks. That shit dont make sense.
and by the way MICKYFINN what do you know about multistage centrifugal pumps? I got a boiler feewater pump that wont pump like the other two in battery. It is a two stage pump. Question: impleller phasing (relationship between the vanes of each impeller) can it be an issue? Simple dam aurora split-case. Piped like all the rest. Challenged like all the rest as regards NPSH (only 4' above required). Wont do the volume, wont draw the amps. Motor speed faster than the rest (not as much amp draw) internal clearances the same. Deadhead pressure within 5psi but only pumps 50% volume. No restrictions indicated at the pump suction/discharge gauges. Almost like the impellers were thinner (less volume). I would suppose that if the water was bypassing internally it would load up. Need ideas.
How long have the pumps been in service? I work in Lumpy water so we don't use a lot of split case but we do have a few. Sounds like you are checking all the obvious things and eventually you will find the difference. May sound stupid but if it is not a buttload of work I might try swapping the pumps physically. Would not be the first time that I have seen two pumps supposedly identical with almost identical plumbing and one perform differently. If you can physically swap the pumps at least you could rule out any problems external to the pump. Don't know what you do for a living or how many people you have available for troubleshooting but this should be a fairly quick option and could reveal something totally unexplainable. We have had several incidents where identical pumps dont perform identically and have swapped pumps and the problem stayed with the pipe and not the pump. Piping same size, essentially the same head on both the suction and discharge yet pumps perform differently. We never figured it out but once we saw the pumps flowing right on the curve where they were spec'd we quit looking. They performed different but the difference wasn't enough to cause us problems.

[Norseman]

Weld four 2inch pipes in the end of your collector.
Now that's a good idea, and it would put you in compliance with the law! :sqeyes:
I'd set it up so you could remove it when you went to a different lake ;)
And carry a copy of the law with you, to point out the details in case you get stopped. :mad:
Of course if he can't write you for this, then he may decide that it's worth his time to find something else to bust your balls about. :boxingguy
Might not be worth the agravation :burningm:
Of course I'm a stubborn headed bastard, and I'd do it just because!!! But hey that's just me!!!! :messedup:

[MarKist]

you know Phil, now that I think about it and read back through the LAW(if you will) :rolleyes:thats sure is funny that a 40' Fountain W/ 2 blown 502s don't even get pulled or nothing they ride right by.And you know that they have 5" pipes TT and there not under water at idle or underway and there twice as loud :crossx: So yes he is singled us out WTF!!!!and I know the guy with Fountain and have been down the lake in it at about 90 mph,and he lives on the S.C. side!!!!!!!!so no S.C. trips for me!! :devil:
Markist

[RiverOtter]

Great!! As usual all the CA crap makes it's way to the Southeast! :notam:

[Aut]

[QUOTE=Infomaniac]Hire a PI, even an internet PI. Dig up some dirt on the guy expose the findings or get him fired. Dickheads like that are never without skeletons in their closets.[/QUOiTE] I heare you need to do something :confused:

[Lady Warhawk]

HEY..............I know how to solve this chit ....I won't go back to that f*#kin MUD HOLE!! :devil: I ain't never like that lake !!!and I'm close to it too , 10 min.so for now on I'll go to Mt. Island where they love us!! :Dand its 25 min. away! :wink:
Markist
You, and Gina, and any other folks that would like to come are more than welcome at lake Jordon. Very high maintance boat friendly. Huge lake, not as clean as James or Anna, but tons of room to move around, and the beaches are endless. It's about 15 minutes from our house. LE bothers no one unless you are doing something stupid :jawdrop:

[MarKist]

You, and Gina, and any other folks that would like to come are more than welcome at lake Jordon. Very high maintance boat friendly. Huge lake, not as clean as James or Anna, but tons of room to move around, and the beaches are endless. It's about 15 minutes from our house. LE bothers no one unless you are doing something stupid :jawdrop:
Thanks Mon , well keep that in mind ...........chit!! you know were gonna have a blast this year!!!!!! :D :D
Markist

[Lady Warhawk]

Thanks Mon , well keep that in mind ...........chit!! you know were gonna have a blast this year!!!!!! :D :D
Markist
.
Mark, don't you know it :D
This lake, that lake, so many lakes, and so little time :(
Really, ya'll aren't that far from us, so plan a trip to go to Jordan, and don't forget the cold ones.

[MarKist]

.
Mark, don't you know it :D
This lake, that lake, so many lakes, and so little time :(
Really, ya'll aren't that far from us, so plan a trip to go to Jordan, and don't forget the cold ones.
So many lakes ,so little time,...but well make that run fur sure!! :D :D
Markist