What's up with this steering? [Archive]

AMC-Nut

12-03-2004, 12:39 PM

Hey Guys,
I was looking a boat that's for sale here in Tempe, AZ that the guy needs to unload quick, he's getting a divorce, and found it had a similar steering setup as this boat.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/1177SkiRaceJet-med.jpg
The boat is a 19' daytona with 468 and what I think is a JG. Why would someone goto this setup, what are the pros and cons?

superdave013

12-03-2004, 12:45 PM

it's called Calgo and it's a very nice set up.
Man, that pic I took years ago sure still gets around!

AMC-Nut

12-03-2004, 12:50 PM

Is this a picture of your boat?

Jordy

12-03-2004, 12:52 PM

the Rogers has the same problem as my current boat, it only holds four, I need room for at least six, even if it's a tight six.
Yeah, a 19' Daytona will have all kinds of room for you and 2 of your closest friends, maybe. Maybe just you, a friend and a cooler.
And no, that's not SD's boat. He's got a badass 20' Schiada v-drive. :D

AMC-Nut

12-03-2004, 12:57 PM

The '19 Daytona is going for cheap, and I was just looking at it, it's a friend of a friend's boat. I think it's already sold though and I was just wondering about the steering deal. I need to go look at Corleones boat before I buy another anyway.

AMC-Nut

12-03-2004, 01:26 PM

Actually this new boat on eBay looks very similar, if not identical.
http://i18.ebayimg.com/01/i/02/f6/46/6c_1_b.JPG

AMC-Nut

12-03-2004, 01:29 PM

Twister on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26432&item=4509505868&rd=1)

RiverDave

12-03-2004, 01:52 PM

it's called Calgo and it's a very nice set up.
Man, that pic I took years ago sure still gets around!
That was back in the days when you'd actually come out to Parker with your friends n shit.. LOL :D
RD

bottom feeder

12-03-2004, 04:58 PM

That is simmilar to what my boat had in it from the factory. I have changed it to this on the inside
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1501DUAL_STEER.JPG
And this on the out sidehttp://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1501tiller.JPG
Sorry about the size :mad:

AZKC

12-03-2004, 05:58 PM

Awesome fab job :cool:

revndave

12-03-2004, 06:12 PM

Thats trick :)

WheelerDealer

12-03-2004, 06:15 PM

That's some trick shiznit bottom feeder.

superdave013

12-03-2004, 06:30 PM

bottom feeder

12-03-2004, 06:35 PM

Thanks all I am currantly off the wagon so its a Pepsi boat? Just starting the rigging for the new boat beeen here at the shop most every night just lurking about.

quiet riot

12-03-2004, 11:11 PM

Bottom feeder, does your setup have any slop in the steering? I've been thinking of doing a system like that on mine cause I don't like the slop I have in the single cable steering of my legend in my sprintjet and kinda want to get away from the standard steering cables.
I'm originally from garden valley, 1hr north of you. I might have to look ya up and check out your setup if I make it over to the folks for x-mas or in the springtime if ya don't mind.
jd

dave186

12-04-2004, 02:51 AM

hey bottom feeder, im just a few minutes from Boise, cool to see someone close on here!

LVjetboy

12-04-2004, 03:34 AM

My thought. There's the slop in the linkages and the slop in the actuator. Then there's the application. I have regular stearing. Seems the actuator (steering rack and pinion) has the most slop not the linkage. But works just fine to 100 mph. Then again I don't do much yanking and banking over 60 mph let alone at top speed. My hull doesn't like speed turns regardless of steering...so application? A river racer may have different needs. Yet I see cable on drag jets? Is it a fad? Or driven by a certain hp level?
All I can say is, at my hp level and application, standard steering works just fine. I'm curious what applications require cable and why?
jer

bottom feeder

12-04-2004, 09:38 AM

Roit.
No slop what so ever. That is the reason for the use of the rod ends, rightys and leftys so you can pre load everything.There is a lever on the end of the steering shaft rather than a rack. Garden valley is nice I have a freind that just bought a place up there. If your in town for the hollidays PM me for the details. My shop is in Meridian house is about 5 min away.
Lvjet. Seems like all boats have a cable of some design for the steering. As you know the cables pull much better than they push. so i use two one to pull left one to pull right. The bell crank was added to make wedge changes no problem. Just remove nozzle bolts loosen jam nuts on the rods change wedge re bolt, turn rods to draw everything tight agin and tighten jam nuts. My boat does like high speed turns. some times you even have to counter steer.
Dave 186 Pm me Will hook up.

Cs19

12-04-2004, 10:27 AM

Jer, I dont think its a fad,and I dont think theres a point when its mandatory, but if your building a race boat or hardcore river racer its something youd just do. It just may make you quicker being you have to yank and bank way less than you would with rack steering, and thats what river racing or drag racing is all about (being quicker than the other guy) The calgo has a much tighter ratio.I find that I never have to turn the wheel more than 1/2 turn for a whole weekend at the river, from center to full stop is just shy of 3/4 turn with no slop in the steering at all.
I dont know about you guys but off the line my boat does this thing I call "hunting" and it moves around on me quite a bit.Might be bowsteer? might be the tunnells grabbing? I dont know yet.Sometimes worse than others, sometimes not at all.I think daytonas just do that after watching all the other drivers do the same thing. Anyways I have to drive through it, If I had a rack set up Id be setting that wheel on fire trying to get it straight, with calgo, its real small movements back and forth. I like that.With that,and its trick looking design,ease of servicing and adjustabilty and the weight losses over rack, Im sold on calgo. I see one negative thing, and thats the price.
I dont think it would be worth changing a rack system over to cables, Id drive a fast boat with rack, but if you were at the point in rigging your boat where you need to decide, Id strongly consider cables.
Hey Bottom feeder, where did you get the aluminum wedge?

bottom feeder

12-04-2004, 11:42 AM

CS19.
Nice write up. My hull used to hunt like you mentioned on the strike of the throttle. I will find a picture of the fix that worked for me. The wedge came from the same place as all the other stuff I make. Need one? let me know the angle and if your nozzle is double drilled. I am working on putting out some tunning kits for the jets as it is pricey to buy five or six wedges if they were sold as a kit it would lower the cost per part so the consumer would get a better value.
Bottom Feeder

victorfb

12-04-2004, 12:17 PM

Bottom feeder. you wouldnt happen to have a pic of the steering helm do you? the rest of that steering is awsome. i love the fact that it is not regular cable, but push/pull cables. ive allways been shy of the regular cable as if one cable slipped or broke then the steering is done. useing two push.pull cables gives you the assurance that you can still steer the boat back to control and shore if one mount,cable, or anything broke. great job man.

Cs19

12-04-2004, 12:18 PM

Yeah. well i change wedges all the time, Id need a couple different ones, what do you think about maybe doing some in half increments? double drilled for sure. i think a 3.5,4,4.5 and 5 would be what I need. Let me know what you think.
I thought about trying to make some from aluminum on conventional machines. Would take me forever, i imagine you cnc this stuff?
I dont like the nylon ones, I watch my videos in slow motion and they leak,you can see small steams of spray shooting out,its hard to get a good seal with nylon or plastic or whatever that stuff is.
let me know im interested.

12-04-2004, 12:25 PM

i agree that the calgo is a much nicer steering system, and provides much tighter turning than the rack deal. but i really have no idea what yur talkin' about with this huntin' deal... :idea: is this like when yur drivin' down a 40' wide at about 100, in a 35mph cross wind, and as the boat is "huntin" for the other lane (and the light poles), you steer it the other way toward the finish line? beentheredonethatone...
or, samecrosswind, letgo the rope and the nose turns sideways, and you do a fishtail burnout "huntin" for straight? chrischrischris.. that's when its FUN :D :D :D :D
there are very different handling characteristics between daytonas, sw/pcs and semi-vs. i wouldn't mind having a calgo system... maybe someday..

bottom feeder

12-04-2004, 04:49 PM

cs19
My wedges are O ringed and made from 6061-T6 if this is what you desire I will figure up something. I make them from tube on the cnc with a tilting table. Sorta like cheating compared to old school.
Bp My hull (a V with delta bottom and lots of stakes) felt like it was sliding back and forth on a roller as I rolled into the throttle. If I just stab it it comes compleatly out of the water and you have to wait for it to settle in before picking up the throttle agin. Here is some pics of the skeg I added to the ride/cav plate. It is 4 inches long and 3/8 tall it made the roll on more stable and the big end much much better. Being the OAL on my hull is only 13 foot you can see I had stability problems at high speed
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1501cav_plt_lft-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1501cav_rudd-med.JPG
Victorfb I will take some tonight if i can get myself wedged under the dash :idea:

steelcomp

12-04-2004, 05:49 PM

I have a single Morse rack in my boat as well. I don't like slop in anything rtelated to control...I don't care if it's in my garden wagon. I replaced everything brand new trying to get rid of the slop, only to find out that there is a space between the cable inner housing, and the cable itself which, when the cable begins to move, is taken up by the initial movement, causing a "delay" on the other end. Nothing can be done about this with this single cable design, and I just work with it when driving the boat. But it sucks. The helm has zero slop. The ends have zero slop. The swivel has maybe .010" - .015" slop. It's a pretty simple system, but it still sucks when the slop is inside the cable.
I also don't understand the thinking behind "application demand" when you're talking about going 100 + mph on the water. Jer...you might not think you "need" tight steering because of your "application", but if you ever really got out of shape, that millisecond of delay at your speeds might cost someone their life. I would think at your level of detail and design there would be absolutely NO compromise in your thinking about how to control that boat. Maybe I read what you wrote in the wrong context, but I have to say that what you said sounded really dangerous.
Feeder...I can see one upgrade to your set up (if there's a need) and that would be a selection of location holes on the short end of your bell crank. You would be able to adjust your steering ratio with the greatest of ease!!
I'd like to see the helm side of this as well. Very nice fab work, there, too. Good job. The one thing I don't like, though, is the bolts in single shear but that's just a pet peeve of mine. Not going to be a problem...I know. :redface: Thanks for posting.

superdave013

12-04-2004, 05:55 PM

I thought about trying to make some from aluminum on conventional machines. Would take me forever, i imagine you cnc this stuff?
C'Mon ya sissy! You young kids these days.
Doing it the hard way is how you get good at it man! Jack has a mill, get crackin. :)

bottom feeder

12-04-2004, 06:06 PM

steelcomp

12-04-2004, 06:12 PM

Steelcomp,
The ratio is under the dash :D The first was at the pump looked like I missed a number or something so I hid it under the dash. Good eye on the single shear point! I didnt like then and dont like it now. Thanks damit now I need to make a new one :frown:
Sorry...I know that complicates the part, but after looking more closely, especially at the smaller bolts on the cable ends at the bell crank, I think it's a good idea. I think the tiller will work all right. Beefy enough cross section and good load spreading with the tapered spacers. Really nice work, btw. :D

bottom feeder

12-04-2004, 06:31 PM

steelcomp

12-04-2004, 06:52 PM

Here is another thought I just checked
I put a tork driver on the steering wheel nut it took 11 inch pounds to turn. I have not noticed any increase in steering effort while at speed. My wheel stops are in the helm so I dont slam bang the cables. Probably strong enough but a new one will be made.
I hear ya, but it's not a static condition. The way you guys fly and thrash on those boats (which looks like a TON of fun to me!!!) I don't know what kind of loading it might see. It's just those two (what are they...1/4" or 5/16'? or 10-12mm?) on the cable ends...they stick up like a sore thumb!! I don't think you need to put them in double shear, just make the part so the bolt isn't so long. AAhhh...!!! What am I saying...you know. Sorry for telling you what to do. :redface:

Cs19

12-04-2004, 07:18 PM

C'Mon ya sissy! You young kids these days.
Doing it the hard way is how you get good at it man! Jack has a mill, get crackin. :)
:D
I do agree Dave 100% Hey let me know if you see any old bridgeports for sale, Id like to play with projects like that in my spare time. If you see a decent one around let me know. Just want an old school one, no trick stuff.

steelcomp

12-05-2004, 11:38 AM

:D
I do agree Dave 100% Hey let me know if you see any old bridgeports for sale, Id like to play with projects like that in my spare time. If you see a decent one around let me know. Just want an old school one, no trick stuff.
Chris...I have a MaxMill (Bridgeport copy) with DRO (Sargon sensors), brand new (in the box) Enco power feed, new coolant spray set up, 6" vise, and about four R8 collets. $2200.
http://www.***boat.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8195&stc=1

Fogged Gullwing

12-05-2004, 12:55 PM

Who has the best deal on the calgo? I think they run 700.00-900.00 and you have to buy the place diverter tiller separately. I've driven a boat with calgo and it's like power steering. Really nice. B.O.A.T. Bust out another thousand!!!
BK

Cs19

12-05-2004, 08:30 PM

Bottom Feeder, keep me posted on those wedges. Pm me if you like.
Steelcomp, thats a nice mill,and a good price. Ill keep you in mind.Thanks.

steelcomp

12-05-2004, 09:35 PM

Bottom Feeder, keep me posted on those wedges. Pm me if you like.
Steelcomp, thats a nice mill,and a good price. Ill keep you in mind.Thanks.
It's a little grubby from just sitting, but the ways are in good shape and I'd say it's a 7.5 to 8 on a ten scale. :D

Rexone

12-05-2004, 10:57 PM

On the subject of bolt strength and shear (stainless) I had a discussion with Robert Florine from ARP at SEMA on their stainless bolts vs. the 18-8 or 316 stainless commonly found in rigging. He told me the ARP stainless are stronger than grade 8 and will actually bend (alot) before they break off. Something like 180000 psi rating. Just something to think about in high stress points you don't want to rust and corrode. I've seen the cheap stainless stuff shear off in lots of regular rigging applications. They are fine for some things but I wouldn't put steering parts on that list. And I can't tell from the pic what bolt type those are. Just throwing the info out to you. The ARP's come in packs of 5 in most common sizes up through 1/2 diameter.
Be safe and don't short cut the steering stuff just because it's always worked in the past. I've been tossed out of a boat from steering failure and the resulting collision with another boat. It ain't all that much fun.

Fogged Gullwing

12-06-2004, 07:40 PM

Scott,
You got anymore pics of the mill? You got a lathe too?
Send them to my email!
Later BK

steelcomp

12-06-2004, 07:43 PM

Scott,
You got anymore pics of the mill? You got a lathe too?
Send them to my email!
Later BK
That's the only pic I have. No lathe. If you're seriously interested, I can get more pics. Or you could drive your butt up here to see it. Better bring a flat bed, so you can take it home with you. :D
It's going in the trade express and foto ad tomorrow.

revndave

12-06-2004, 08:42 PM

This boat is for sale
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/521/1177SkiRaceJet-med.jpg
http://images.traderonline.com/EMedia/tarchive2/220/153694/00460506203.jpg
http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/2/6/76754526.htm

AMC-Nut

12-06-2004, 08:49 PM

Yup,
I actually just talked to the owner about 20 minutes ago. I am going to see it again on Wednesday night. It was originally a v-drive boat that he converted over so that he could run in the jet drive classes and in his age bracket. The boat has seen several motors and currently has a 540 with a single four barrel. I am thinking of trying the marathon speed skiing deal for myself. It also has a turning fin on the bottom directly under the motor. The boat can also be seen several differant places on the internet.
Here for one, picture 64 of 71. (http://www.memoriesink.net/parker%20womens%20sun/index.htm)
The boat has a severly reinforced bottom and stringer setup, all aluminum.

AMC-Nut

12-06-2004, 08:50 PM

He was also trying to figure out who took the picture as I described to him, he doesn't have a clue except it was taken after '97 and probably at Parker.

revndave

12-06-2004, 09:00 PM

How does it run?

steelcomp

12-06-2004, 09:08 PM

He was also trying to figure out who took the picture as I described to him, he doesn't have a clue except it was taken after '97 and probably at Parker.
I think Superdave said he took that pic. I like the twin throttle body EFI/ BB Ford set up in that pic. Wonder how that ran!! :coffeycup

AMC-Nut

12-06-2004, 09:14 PM

The guy says that's a 10-71 Blower on the motor, although it doesn't look like one to me.

revndave

12-06-2004, 09:20 PM

The guy says that's a 10-71 Blower on the motor, although it doesn't look like one to me.
I dont see any blower :confused:

AMC-Nut

12-06-2004, 09:21 PM

yup, me neither, but that's what he says.

revndave

12-06-2004, 09:24 PM

Its a special low profile blower with a stealth belt :D

flat broke

12-07-2004, 09:53 AM

You're probably talking about 2 different incarnations of the boat in regard to the blower statement. BTW superdave did take the picture of the boat and I think that would have been in 02/03 and it was in the parkinglot/pits at the Bluewater.
For the price, that boat is a frickin steal. Had it come up before I did the motor in mine, I would have snatched it up.
Chris

canuck1

12-07-2004, 02:52 PM

Alum wedges... I'm interested, let me know

moneysucker

12-07-2004, 03:00 PM

I believe it is no longer called Calgo it is now Cable steer. The prices listed are fairly acurate though. If you really wanted yo get the gear reduction steering you could use one of the steering gear reduction devices in Jegs or summit on a regular steering system. When a cable breaks it is not a good time though. I had mine break while down river from my house. Went to turn left and the wheel loosened up and I almost went into the toolies.