Cam Selection???

[Greaser]

I am looking to do a little upgrading on the ole jet boat this winter and was wondering what you guys think would be the best cam for my needs.
Here is what I am running now. It is a stock 460, that has been bored 40 over, stock heads, with an Edelbrock Torker 460 intake with a holley 750 with vacume sec. I am also running a stock elec. ignition, that I plan on upgrading to all MSD over the winter also. Also running Bassett headers.
It sits in a 75 Southwind, with a berk JB-A with a divereter, and is currently turning about 4800 rpms,
Any advice you guys can give me would be greatly appreciated :D

[Squirtin Thunder]

I would go with the XM278 complete kit and have the heads done and put the CJ valves in. Get a MSD ready to run dist and a MSD coil. With that combo you should turn 5200rpms with your pump. I would sugest some sort of loader.
Jim
Give me a call anytime if you need help
1-928-704-1158

[mgar_red]

I would go with the XM278 complete kit
What brand/make of cam is this? I was thinking about future upgrades on my stock 460 as well and wanted to start $aving for it. Thanx :D

[78Eliminator]

Before the pros will chime in here, you will need to give specific details about your heads (chamber cc and intake runners), current compression ratio, and where you want your motor to make power (what RPMs). Then, I bet you will get some answers.....
You're gonna have to do more than just a cam.

[Blown 472]

I am looking to do a little upgrading on the ole jet boat this winter and was wondering what you guys think would be the best cam for my needs.
Here is what I am running now. It is a stock 460, that has been bored 40 over, stock heads, with an Edelbrock Torker 460 intake with a holley 750 with vacume sec. I am also running a stock elec. ignition, that I plan on upgrading to all MSD over the winter also. Also running Bassett headers.
It sits in a 75 Southwind, with a berk JB-A with a divereter, and is currently turning about 4800 rpms,
Any advice you guys can give me would be greatly appreciated :D
Stock replacement pistons?? if so you are at about 8.3 to 1 comp ratio. Chances are you have a D3ve head on it which is a good head with some work.
The stock ford electronic ignition is a great set up and you can get a module any place but if you like the msd then use it.

[Squirtin Thunder]

Stock replacement pistons?? if so you are at about 8.3 to 1 comp ratio. Chances are you have a D3ve head on it which is a good head with some work.
The stock ford electronic ignition is a great set up and you can get a module any place but if you like the msd then use it.
I second that !!!
CompCams Xtreem Marine XM278-H
You will need to do a little bowl work and smooth out the airboss in the exaust port. With porting you may be capable of turning 5600rpms.

[Greaser]

Thanks for the great input guys. Yes my pistons are stock replacement. And I will get some casting numbers up ASAP. I kinda figured I would have to do something to the heads, port and polish, and exc. I was thinking of some performer rpm heads, but they are a bit pricey, and I wanted to get the interior done this winter also.
Im not looking to be the fastest on the lake, just tired of being the slowest :D

[Greaser]

You're gonna have to do more than just a cam.
What else would you recomend? I just figured the cam would be a good place to start.

[Greaser]

The casting numbers I found on the heads are D3ve-A2A. My block is also a 72 year model, if that helps.
Also wondering where is the best place to buy marine cams?
I really do apprerciate all the advice you guys can give me.

[Blown 472]

The casting numbers I found on the heads are D3ve-A2A. My block is also a 72 year model, if that helps.
Also wondering where is the best place to buy marine cams?
I really do apprerciate all the advice you guys can give me.
I have had a few cams thru my motors and the cams I liked the best with zero bullshit have been isky's. Went thru a few comps cams and lifters and had nothing but trouble with them have run isky's in my cars and my boat and they work and run. They make two hydraulic boat cams for fords.
Some head work would help if not get a great valve job and have them use a radius cutter on the exhaust.
What size carb you running?? recurve the dist too.

[TIMINATOR]

Isky cams are more trouble-free because they have a slower ramp rate, and some Ford blocks have had a lifter bore angle problem. The slower ramp rate helps to crutch the problem. The faster ramp cams WILL make more hp, but if you have a bad block either use an inferior grind (slow rate) cam or put in a roller. Also a stock Ford timing gear (lower) has a built in retard of 8-12 degrees. The 0 deg lower gears are still available for the 460s, it will usually pick up a couple of mph if you use it, even with a stock cam. The good aftermarket roller timing setups are all "0". Degree every cam you ever install, and you'll never have any problems with it. The stock Ford electronic distributor works great with either a "blue grommet box or MSD box. Don't waste the cash on a MSD distributor, either one needs to be curved, and an MSD curve is usually as bad on the curve as a stock Ford. For as wonderful as the MSD electronics are their distributors are backwoods if you run a curve. TIMINATOR

[Squirtin Thunder]

Cloyes actually makes both early (strieght up) and late (retarded) !!!!
I thought the same thing Tim, found out otherwise.
Jim

[Blown 472]

Isky cams are more trouble-free because they have a slower ramp rate, and some Ford blocks have had a lifter bore angle problem. The slower ramp rate helps to crutch the problem. The faster ramp cams WILL make more hp, but if you have a bad block either use an inferior grind (slow rate) cam or put in a roller. Also a stock Ford timing gear (lower) has a built in retard of 8-12 degrees. The 0 deg lower gears are still available for the 460s, it will usually pick up a couple of mph if you use it, even with a stock cam. The good aftermarket roller timing setups are all "0". Degree every cam you ever install, and you'll never have any problems with it. The stock Ford electronic distributor works great with either a "blue grommet box or MSD box. Don't waste the cash on a MSD distributor, either one needs to be curved, and an MSD curve is usually as bad on the curve as a stock Ford. For as wonderful as the MSD electronics are their distributors are backwoods if you run a curve. TIMINATOR
The trouble I had with comp junk was taking the lobe off one cam, going thru three hydraulic cams and all of their wazo lifters that kept coming apart and no coil bind or any of that stuff.

[Greaser]

What size carb you running??
I am running a holley 750 w/vacume secondary.
Does Isky Cams have a web site? Also, which cam would you recomend?

[Greaser]

Isky cams are more trouble-free because they have a slower ramp rate, and some Ford blocks have had a lifter bore angle problem. The slower ramp rate helps to crutch the problem. The faster ramp cams WILL make more hp, but if you have a bad block either use an inferior grind (slow rate) cam or put in a roller. Also a stock Ford timing gear (lower) has a built in retard of 8-12 degrees. The 0 deg lower gears are still available for the 460s, it will usually pick up a couple of mph if you use it, even with a stock cam. The good aftermarket roller timing setups are all "0". Degree every cam you ever install, and you'll never have any problems with it. The stock Ford electronic distributor works great with either a "blue grommet box or MSD box. Don't waste the cash on a MSD distributor, either one needs to be curved, and an MSD curve is usually as bad on the curve as a stock Ford. For as wonderful as the MSD electronics are their distributors are backwoods if you run a curve. TIMINATOR
So I guess I will mark off the msd distributer off my Christmas list.
This is great advice guys, I really appreciate it. If you have any other recomendations on how I can get more power, please let me know. If at all possible, I would like to keep most off the upgrades to the top end. I would like to leave the pistons and crank alone till I can get more money, maybe next year :D

[rrrr]

Im not looking to be the fastest on the lake, just tired of being the slowest :D
Hey, I know how to fix that, Greaser. Just go to the lake whenever Omega Bubble Jet does.
:p :p :hammerhea :D :D

[oldbuck40]

Hey, I know how to fix that, Greaser. Just go to the lake whenever Omega Bubble Jet does.
:p :p :hammerhea :D :Dthats some funny s hit!!!! rrrr your too much!

[Blown 472]

I am running a holley 750 w/vacume secondary.
Does Isky Cams have a web site? Also, which cam would you recomend?
http://www.iskycams.com
Give them a call and talk to them, pretty help full.

[Greaser]

Hey, I know how to fix that, Greaser. Just go to the lake whenever Omega Bubble Jet does.
:p :p :hammerhea :D :D
Now THATS funny :rollside:
Actually, I rode in Omegas boat, and Im pretty sure he's got me
Just tryin to be a lil more competitive next summer :devil:

[Kurtis500]

I have never had a problem with solid lifter cams in a lake boat, just keep it reasonable. ALL of my lake friends that have roller set-ups have busted a component on thier valve train at least once while my motor has never had a problem. (12 years) Too many pressures on the valvetrain with a roller set-up compared to a solid. After a few years of use, they break sooner. Thats my experience.
Heres the other, I have had 3 --- yes THREE MSD boxes go dead on my daycruiser this season. 2 were brand new, one of which had 1-2 hours of use. I have a new billet MSD distributor, new MSD coil and all new wiring with proper fuses and etc. MSD could repaired all but one and said the failure was internal. They are gone off my boat for good.

[dave186]

i have been hearing bad things about comp cams lately! I have one in my truck and have had noise problems ever since i put it in. several other board members on another site have had the same trouble with the same cam. I had a comp roller in my old 302 and didnt have any trouble. I have an XM278 ready for the boat and am hoping that it works good. what kind of lifters do you all recommend?

[Blown 472]

i have been hearing bad things about comp cams lately! I have one in my truck and have had noise problems ever since i put it in. several other board members on another site have had the same trouble with the same cam. I had a comp roller in my old 302 and didnt have any trouble. I have an XM278 ready for the boat and am hoping that it works good. what kind of lifters do you all recommend?
Well since they are taking the sulfur out of oil that kills lobes and lifters. Get your self some valvoline "off road" oil, it has sulfur in it and it will help on break in.

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

well I may be one of the slowest :cry: but at least I am one of the loudest :) and mine don't leak :wink: and it has reverse :cool: that sound to speed ratio is all phuct up on jets anyway. Greaser I personally think you should try to pick up a set of D0 heads(ebay) to up the compression a bit and work on the exhaust ports only. throw on a better intake manifold. ditch the vacuum secondary carb and replace it with a mechanical. I have been running that old unilite on my boat for 4 seasons now with no problem and a msd box. oh yeah and change the cam. I think they have grinds on cams specifically for jet boats and more specific the cut of impeller you have. you need to get the compression up to make good power. different heads will help you do this without having to swap pistons.
If you need any help I will work for beer! I know a great guy in town here to rebuild a set of D0 heads and port the exhaust.
Omega<-----slowest boat in Texas and proud of it
edit: stay with a hydraulic cam if you don't want to be setting valve lash all the time. You can go roller if you really want to. think $$$$$, but a flat tappet would probably get you desired results. I don't think you are trying to set the water on fire here and you use your boat alot. I think a reliable low mainenance setup is more up your ally no.

[rrrr]

well I may be one of the slowest :cry: but at least I am one of the loudest :) and mine don't leak :wink: and it has reverse :cool: that sound to speed ratio is all phuct up on jets anyway.
:D :D :D
Just kiddin' ya....

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

:D :D :D
Just kiddin' ya....
I know you were and I was trying to return the favor.......damn why does everyone always take me so seriously!!! :confused: :D :D
Omega

[Greaser]

I don't think you are trying to set the water on fire here and you use your boat alot. I think a reliable low mainenance setup is more up your ally no.
Im looking for more power and reliability. I dont want a motor Im gonna have to be wrenching on all week, just to take out on the weekends. Its no secret that I'm not the best mechanic in the world. :D

[Greaser]

damn why does everyone always take me so seriously!!! :confused: :D :D
Omega
I learned a long time ago not to take you seriously :lightsabe
Just kiddin :squiggle:

[oldbuck40]

Hey Greaser, Omega is right on the set up,,,its so easy to make it sound good and get the hp up with minimum $$$$ mine is basic stuff all i spent $$$ on was cam,carb,manifold, had to bore it.40 so there was a new set of pistons,,i went with flat top,and still run 87 pump gas no problem,,only advice i can give is on cam purchace,,buy the cam and springs together and from the same company! most of the time alot of guys will buy them seperate and wind up with too much seat pressure which will cause cam failure or stud failure..just make sure they are matched for how you want to run the boat..like omega said make it simple,,you already have the cubic inches,,just put a little bit more in it and you will be very happy....

[rrrr]

I know you were and I was trying to return the favor.......damn why does everyone always take me so seriously!!! :confused: :D :D
Omega
How can you take someone with a bright yellow boat seriously?
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ZING! Got 'em again! :D :D :D LMAO

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

How can you take someone with a bright yellow boat seriously?
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ZING! Got 'em again! :D :D :D LMAO
hey my feet stay dry in my boat how about yours???? :hammerhea
Omega

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

back on topic this is what I suggest.
A good set of D0ve heads off ebay or possibly here. (that will up your compression a little but still keep it pump gas friendly) get the heads run thru and do very minor work on exhaust port. spend maybe a little more than $500 on the set and that includes the price of the head.
A good cam with matching springs as oldbuck said.
A stealth intake with a 750 holley mechanical secondaries.
ignition is limitless on possibilities. I think you have a vacuum advance dist and that has to go! it is really about how much you want to spend. I think you could do the above package for less than $1000 if you buy used intake/carb/heads......new cam springs, etc. and I think you would be very happy with the results.
EBAY is your friend!!!!

[Greaser]

A stealth intake with a 750 holley mechanical secondaries.
ignition is limitless on possibilities. I think you have a vacuum advance dist and that has to go! it is really about how much you want to spend. I think you could do the above package for less than $1000 if you buy used intake/carb/heads......new cam springs, etc. and I think you would be very happy with the results.
:supp:
If I can get all that for less than a grand, That would be awsome..........
I think Im gonna spend the rest of my day on ebay :idea:

[LakesOnly]

I would go with the XM278 complete kit and have the heads done and put the CJ valves in. Get a MSD ready to run dist and a MSD coil. With that combo you should turn 5200rpms with your pump. I would sugest some sort of loader.
Jim
Greaser,
This is as very useful multi-appplication camshaft for many builds, although for a jetboat I usually recommend the enduser call Comp Cams and specifiy a small change on the grind (get a custom order grind based on this cam). This of course depends on what you are building for an engine, so no cam choices yet until you have all the other components.
By the way, if the only thing you do is put in this camshaft, your boat will not be any faster than it is now. Your stock compression is way too low for this camshaft to be of any benefit.
The 2.25" Cobra Jet-size valves recommended above are not as well suited for your D3VE heads (or D0VE heads) as would be the 2.19" valve.
LO

[LakesOnly]

I...was wondering what you guys think would be the best cam for my needs.
It is a stock 460, that has been bored 40 over, stock heads, with an Edelbrock Torker 460 intake with a holley 750 with vacume sec. I am also running a stock elec. ignition, that I plan on upgrading to all MSD over the winter also. Also running Bassett headers.
It sits in a 75 Southwind, with a berk JB-A with a divereter, and is currently turning about 4800 rpms, :D
How far are you willing to go? Rebuild your whole engine? Or will the shortblock stay in the boat and you do mainly top end breathing improvementrs?
LO
p.s. By the way, whatever you do--even if you change nothing else--throw that torker manifold on Ebay and get yourself a newer aluminum single plane and bigger carb,. such as a Holley 850 DP

[Squirtin Thunder]

How far are you willing to go? Rebuild your whole engine? Or will the shortblock stay in the boat and you do mainly top end breathing improvementrs?
LO
p.s. By the way, whatever you do--even if you change nothing else--throw that torker manifold on Ebay and get yourself a newer aluminum single plane and bigger carb,. such as a Holley 850 DP
I say Weiand Stealth !!!!!! :D

[LakesOnly]

...my pistons are stock replacement. I kinda figured I would have to do something to the heads, port and polish, and exc. I was thinking of some performer rpm heads, but they are a bit pricey...
Im not looking to be the fastest on the lake, just tired of being the slowest :D
Which heads you use depends in part on what you have for pistons and whether you plan to do anything to the shortblock or not.
I can already say that the RPM heads are all wrong for your boat. Best bang-for-buck aluminum heads for your application are the TFS street/strip aluminum casting's. Stock passenger car port sizes whose flow rivals SCJ ported heads, and will up your low compression (assuming you indeed have "the stock 22cc dish-top pistons), brand spanking new with new valves, new springs, etc., ready to bolt on. About 65 pounds lighter than your pair of D3VE's. Just $1850.
If that's too expensive or deemed to be inappropriate for your modifications, then grinding the cast iron heads (whichever oem casting you use) will work wonders for your engine's breathing charactersitics. They suffer from horrible exhaust flow, in part due to emmisions reasons and in part from the chassis engineers winning a battle over the motor engineers (in a engine compartment "space issue").
LO

[oldbuck40]

Lakes only,,,what is the stock bore and stroke on a 460?

[Greaser]

How far are you willing to go? Rebuild your whole engine? Or will the shortblock stay in the boat and you do mainly top end breathing improvementrs?
LO
Yes, If at all possible, I would like to leave the short block as is. Atleast for now. I would like to mainly concentraye on the top end.
So what do you recomend for the heads.

[LakesOnly]

Lakes only,,,what is the stock bore and stroke on a 460?
B X S = 4.36" x 3.85"
LO

[Greaser]

Ok, so lets say I go with the Holley 850 dp, stealth intake, mallory unilite dist, msd 6 al box, and a msd coil, and leave the short block the way it is, Then what would you recomend I do about the heads and the cam?

[LakesOnly]

Yes, If at all possible, I would like to leave the short block as is. Atleast for now. I would like to mainly concentraye on the top end.
So what do you recomend for the heads?
Depends on your pistons. Did you rebuild your own engine? What is the casting number of your block (located directly behind starter and reads verticaly)? Do you know exactly what you have for pistons (receipt with part number)?
Did your pistons have a dish shaped like this:
http://i11.ebayimg.com/02/i/02/fe/8b/c1_1_b.JPG
Or are they flat-tops?
LO

[LakesOnly]

I say Weiand Stealth !!!!!! :D
Great dual-plane intake. I'd still opt for a single-plane in a jet boat if at all possible. Whatever the case, ditch that torker intake.
Lo

[Greaser]

The pistons were in the motor when I bought the boat. I was told that they were stock replacement 40 over

[oldbuck40]

B X S = 4.36" x 3.85"
LOso greaser's bbf is just 468.324 if its 40 over. greaser come on dig deeper and get a stroker crank,,,im at 491.45 BBC

[Greaser]

so greaser's bbf is just 468.324 if its 40 over. greaser come on dig deeper and get a stroker crank,,,im at 491.45 BBC
I would love to, but Im going thru a small house remodel, and a major shop remodel, and my pockets arnt that deep :frown:

[oldbuck40]

I would love to, but Im going thru a small house remodel, and a major shop remodel, and my pockets arnt that deep :frown:
sounds like your limited on time too,,oh well i think lakes only is putting you down the right road,,, i think you can get a new stroker crank for around 500,but thats what it takes to go bigger,,keep us posted on the outcome of this project.

[LakesOnly]

The pistons were in the motor when I bought the boat. I was told that they were stock replacement 40 over, so lets say I go with the Holley 850 dp, stealth intake, mallory unilite dist, msd 6 al box, and a msd coil, and leave the short block the way it is, Then what would you recomend I do about the heads and the cam?
Assuming the above build and if you have stock dish-top replacement pistons, then I recommend you swap out your D3VE heads for early-style heads or get the TFS Street/Strip castings so as to up compression .
The use of either pair of heads also requires that you get all new valve train components including rockers & pushrods. Pushrod guideplates woud be nice too but are not mandatory.
I strongly recommend that you pull your heads before you purchase any replacement heads. The purpose of this approach is to see for yourself which replacement pistons you have; some Marine 460's came with flat-top pistons in them.
With all of the above, use the cam kit ST recommended. I think those cam spec's are .574/.576 234/244@.050" 112LC. With the iron heads, just order the it; with the aluminum heads, special order it on a 110LC.
LO
P.s.: If you pull you heads and have flat top pisons, STOP. The heads will give you way too much compression unless you intend to run race gas. (Different cam would be in order too if this is what you want...)

[Greaser]

sounds like your limited on time too,,oh well i think lakes only is putting you down the right road,,, i think you can get a new stroker crank for around 500,but thats what it takes to go bigger,,keep us posted on the outcome of this project.
Better yet, come down to Somerville this summer and I'll show you :hammerhea

[oldbuck40]

Better yet, come down to Somerville this summer and I'll show you :hammerheacount me in i'll be there!

[Greaser]

Assuming the above build and if you have stock dish-top replacement pistons, then I recommend you swap out your D3VE heads for early-style heads or get the TFS Street/Strip castings so as to up compression .
The use of either pair of heads also requires that you get all new valve train components including rockers & pushrods. Pushrod guideplates woud be nice too but are not mandatory.
I strongly recommend that you pull your heads before you purchase any replacement heads. The purpose of this approach is to see for yourself which replacement pistons you have; some Marine 460's came with flat-top pistons in them.
With all of the above, use the cam kit ST recommended. I think those cam spec's are .574/.576 234/244@.050" 112LC. With the iron heads, just order the it; with the aluminum heads, special order it on a 110LC.
LO
P.s.: If you pull you heads and have flat top pisons, STOP. The heads will give you way too much compression unless you intend to run race gas. (Different cam would be in order too if this is what you want...)
I would like to stay with pump gas. So would the dove heads, whith a lil work be good for this application?

[LakesOnly]

By the way, I have some freshly cleaned and blasted, freshly ported early-style heads for sale if anyone's interested. Stock valve sizes. I am willing to sell with loose, used stock valve hardware (if needed) and the buyer just have the valve job done. These heads are not max effort but are properly ported and will breathe excellently on a 460.
LO

[LakesOnly]

I would like to stay with pump gas. So would the dove heads, whith a lil work be good for this application?
If you have the dish-top pistons, then yes, they will work fine. In fact, the heads I just posted would work very well as is (budget) or with bigger valves (for higher performance).
LO

[Greaser]

If you have the dish-top pistons, then yes, they will work fine. In fact, the heads I just posted would work very well as is (budget) or with bigger valves (for higher performance).
LO
How much you want for em? Remember now, Im on a budget :rollside:

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

do the heads you have for sale have hardened seats in them? might be a good deal for you greaser but shipping is gonna be a bitch. I wonder if he could bring the piston TDC and stick a skinny screwdriver or something thru the spark plug hole and attempt to 'feel' if they are dished pistons. or maybe even look thru with a flashlight. I would avoid pulling the heads until the new ones are ready to avoid contamination. especially if the boat sits outside.
On a side note you might call some of the wrecking yards in Houston. there are hundreds and tell them you want some D0ve heads or even a c8ve head. I bet you can find a set around town and save on the shipping. there are only maybe 150 wrecking yards in this city. I could probably even swing by and check them out or pick them up for you. I know people here in town that can do the head work.
I personally would attempt to find the heads locally. keep them stock on intake and get a valve job. throw new seals in them and new springs, etc and do a little grinding on the exhaust and you'll be set. remember you are not building a 600hp beast here. keep it simple. dist/carb/intake go for ebay. buy a case of beer and call your buddies over and we can do the job with the engine in the boat. If you want to yank the engine I happen to own a cherry picker. it is in my garage. with the cam change and given how hard it is to get your back seat out you might want to yank it. It would be easier to work on if it was on a stand too. I got one of those you can borrow also if needed.
Omega

[Squirtin Thunder]

with cam, big valve D2 heads, flattops & Stealth intake I gained 6mph.

[LakesOnly]

How much you want for em? Remember now, Im on a budget :rollside:
PM'd ya...
LO

[LakesOnly]

do the heads you have for sale have hardened seats in them? might be a good deal for you greaser but shipping is gonna be a bitch. I wonder if he could bring the piston TDC and stick a skinny screwdriver or something thru the spark plug hole and attempt to 'feel' if they are dished pistons. or maybe even look thru with a flashlight. I would avoid pulling the heads until the new ones are ready to avoid contamination. especially if the boat sits outside.
On a side note you might call some of the wrecking yards in Houston. there are hundreds and tell them you want some D0ve heads or even a c8ve head. I bet you can find a set around town and save on the shipping. there are only maybe 150 wrecking yards in this city. I could probably even swing by and check them out or pick them up for you. I know people here in town that can do the head work.
I personally would attempt to find the heads locally. keep them stock on intake and get a valve job. throw new seals in them and new springs, etc and do a little grinding on the exhaust and you'll be set. remember you are not building a 600hp beast here. keep it simple. dist/carb/intake go for ebay. buy a case of beer and call your buddies over and we can do the job with the engine in the boat. If you want to yank the engine I happen to own a cherry picker. it is in my garage. with the cam change and given how hard it is to get your back seat out you might want to yank it. It would be easier to work on if it was on a stand too. I got one of those you can borrow also if needed.
Omega
No hardened seats, nor do I feel they are necessary on such a mild build. Hell, my D3's don't have 'em and I spin 5400 all day long, but I admit I run leaded fuel. The older heads just seem to fair very well in this department. A gallon of agvas in your tank every 25 hours or so will take care of any seat worries if you have them, not that I think it's even necessary in this case. By the way, these heads may not have ever had the seats even cut since factory, so sunken seats not an issue either, nor are the guides which are in excellent shape. I'll get pictures if anyone is interested.
Shipping from California to Tejas would be about $35 per head and I am willing to split this cost.
Trying to view the piston crown without removing the heads is a good idea. Flashlight or boresope would be helpful...
There are indeed still early-style heads in junkyards if you take the time to look. You will still need find the time to look for them, pull them, to pay for the disassembly, cleaning & degreasing, blasting, and porting. I would be cautious of agressively porting D0VE heads if you don't know what you're doing. Common sense grinding on these heads offers up significant improvements, though. Mine have been very properly ported. For the stock valve sizes, I would say the intake is 50% max effort ported in the area of blowl blending and the exhaust is 80% max HP effort ported from seat to exhaust flange.
Save the beer for after the engine work... ;)
LO

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

shipping was not as bad as I thought. if he buys them locally I could hook him up with Willard Buff at CAM(competition automotive machine) in Spring. He has built mannnnnnny heads and knows his chit and yes he flows them on a bench.
let's see some pics Lakes.
Omega

[Squirtin Thunder]

Save the beer for after the engine work... :)
Good point Lakes !!! :cool:

[Squirtin Thunder]

with cam, big valve D2 heads, flattops & Stealth intake I gained 6mph.
Sorry that is with D2 97cc Heads, XM278-H cam, stock bore one valve relief flat tops, Stealth intake w/Edlebrock 750, and bone stock '77 Berk A impeller.

[oldbuck40]

Greaser check your PM'S

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

greaser don't forget when pricing these heads from LO you are still going to have to pay for a valve job,seals, retainers and get the heads assembled$$$ essentially you are buying core heads that have been ported with factory valves. I would think you are looking at a MINIMUM of $300 to get the valve job and have the heads professionally assembled. so just be sure to weigh that in when considering these heads.
LO have the heads been milled any? Have they been mag tested? Greaser is my buddy and I am just trying to look out for him! ;) no offense intended
once again pictures always help
Omega

[LakesOnly]

$300 for a valve grind & assembly sure sounds expensive to me, not to mention that this will be required on any pair of heads bought from a yard (and the additional work needed that these heads already have done...and the gamble with the yard heads.)
I am in SoCal right now re-stocking on more head castings; I can post pic's upon return for anyone interested, or just PM me.
Will also have other 385 Series parts available, from loose individual parts all the way to a rebuilt/never fired 460 with early-style heads, roller rockers, big cam, 13.2:1 TRW's with floating pins, CJ rods, etc.
LO

[Squirtin Thunder]

Paul,
Have you seen or compaired the 514 rod to the cj/truck rod ???
Jim

[Greaser]

Lakes only, How much horse power do you estimate with all these upgrades....
Stock short block, w/ 40 over stock replacement pistons
xm278-h cam kit
your heads, with bigger valves, and roller rockers
mallory unilite dist. w/ mechanical adv.
msd 6al
msd blaster coil
stealth intake
holley 850 dp
I guess you kinda guessed this question was coming :rollside: :rollside: :rollside:

[Greaser]

Lakes only, How much horse power do you estimate with all these upgrades....
Stock short block, w/ 40 over stock replacement pistons
xm278-h cam kit
your heads, with bigger valves, and roller rockers
mallory unilite dist. w/ mechanical adv.
msd 6al
msd blaster coil
stealth intake
holley 850 dp
I guess you kinda guessed this question was coming :rollside: :rollside: :rollside:
Also feel free to make any other recomendations, nothing is set in stone.

[LakesOnly]

And your OT headers, right? Oh...I suppose with pump gas premium and twisting that dizzy over as much as is safe, around 450HP.
If you add the bigger valves and have the bowls re-blended to take advantage of them, then a little more.
To get substantial HP increases beyond that point, you'd need to up compression and carb size...but that could be your next shortblock overhaul sometime down the road, besides, if gas prices continue to go up as quality diminishes, you might be thankful with your current compression ratio as it is with this hypothetical build.
On a personal note, I'm not a big fan of my Unilite. It's probably still in my neighboors bushes accross the street...where I forcibly threw it many years ago...
LO

[LakesOnly]

Paul,
Have you seen or compaired the 514 rod to the cj/truck rod ???
Jim
I believe you are talking about the 1st generation 514 rod that came in the 514-A & 514-B. This rod was swapped out for Eagle rods in the later production 514-C & 514-D engines, probably because the original issue rods were not holding up well when people increased HP on the crate motors.
It is essentially a later-revised truck/CJ rod and may not be any stronger than the truck/CJ rod (which--in my opinion--isn't any stronger than the passenger car rods, either).
These I-beam rods are Ford part number M-6200-A514. At first glance, one may mistake them for the D0OE or D6VE CJ-style rod but there are subtle differences. Here is a picture of a truck/CJ rod and A514 stroker rod side-by-side that I took while at my Uncle Charlie's house:
http://a9.cpimg.com/image/3D/5C/39500349-b107-01AD0200-.jpg
The CJ rod is on the left and the A-514 rod is on the right. The weight of these rods (in grams) are written on the respective I-beams. Both rods are 6.605" center-to-center. Notice how much more material is around the big end & cap of the A-514 rod. Also, notice how much more material is around the small end of the A-514 rod, and how the I-beams meet at the small end compared to the CJ rod. The A-514 rod is bushed for floating pin.
These rods have greater weight, strength and reinforcement over the standard D0OE and D6VE CJ rods, but whether or not they are any stronger mid-beam (where the Ford rods break) remains inconclusive.
In fact, at my request Charlie whipped out the ol' micrometer so that we could measure the thickness mid-beam. As I recall, the difference was just .010", which is so slight it may have simply been manufacturing variation (from rod to rod).
LO

[Greaser]

I just want to sat thanks to everyone that gave me thier input on this. You have been very helpfull. You wont find a better group of guys then right here at the hot boat forums. Thank You All!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

[dmontzsta]

As I get more into my build I am starting to search around for what set up I would like to go with for my heads. I met up with LakesOnly (Paul) since he is down in SoCal. I got a chance to look closely at the heads he has for sale. Although I do not have the cash for them right now, he was generous enough to pull out a set of stock heads compared to the ported heads. The ported ones are beautiful, I wish I would have had my camera. With the stockers you could barely fit a finger through them, but with the ported heads you can fit 2-3 and they have a nice "fin" for guiding the exhaust. If you are on a build budget and dont want to fork out $1500+ for some good alluminum heads I would definately go with these, you really have to see them to appreciate them, I am still thinking very hard about which heads to get, but now I am leaning more towards Pauls.

[AzMandella]

Thanks for the great input guys. Yes my pistons are stock replacement. And I will get some casting numbers up ASAP. I kinda figured I would have to do something to the heads, port and polish, and exc. I was thinking of some performer rpm heads, but they are a bit pricey, and I wanted to get the interior done this winter also.
Im not looking to be the fastest on the lake, just tired of being the slowest :D
Look into some TrickFlow alu. heads.they make aset for 460/429 that run only 500$ each bare.then all you will need are the valves if you are buying a complete cam kit with the required springs,keepers and retainers.By the way TrickFlow has the valves for 200$ for int&ex.I run them on my 514 and they are awe :mix: :mix: some.

[AzMandella]

I have never had a problem with solid lifter cams in a lake boat, just keep it reasonable. ALL of my lake friends that have roller set-ups have busted a component on thier valve train at least once while my motor has never had a problem. (12 years) Too many pressures on the valvetrain with a roller set-up compared to a solid. After a few years of use, they break sooner. Thats my experience.
Heres the other, I have had 3 --- yes THREE MSD boxes go dead on my daycruiser this season. 2 were brand new, one of which had 1-2 hours of use. I have a new billet MSD distributor, new MSD coil and all new wiring with proper fuses and etc. MSD could repaired all but one and said the failure was internal. They are gone off my boat for good.
I can tell you how your MSD box's most likely wentbad.If for any reason they recieved an undervoltage situation it is detrimental to them.And yes it will cause an internal problem.Also if you did not wire it to your battery properly you can ruin them.By that I mean if you hook the neg. terminal up first and accidentally touched the pos. to grond it willl kill them like any other type of circuit board type devise.Kind of like ststic electricity when working on your computer.I have run MSD's for over 10 yrs in boats and circle track cars and the only one I had go bad was when the alt. went out in my boat and drained the battery.

[AzMandella]

Hey Greaser.LakesOnly is right on the mark.I'm also a big Ford fan and have been running 460's forever.If for some reason you end up like me and go for the shortblock also I would recomend an Ohio Crank 514 rotating assembly.It runs 1500.00$ and comes with crank,H-beam rods,SRP or JE pistons,rings and Clevite H series bearings and is already balanced.You were worried about reliability and you won't have any problem with that if you assemble it right.I run the same rotating assembly with the Trick Flow heads full Crower roller cam and dual 750's and making about 700HP and more torque than you can shake a stick at and turn it 6800RPM flawlessly.Have not put a wrench to it yet.